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View Full Version : Pedro headed to BULLPEN; Mets season now over!



MikeO
09-28-2006, 12:47 AM
We would like to thank the NY Mets for an entertaining 2006 MLB season.

But with the news that Pedro is likely headed to the bullpen for the playoffs, your chances of winning the NL and World Series are all but over.

Pedro Martinez : Rotoworld.com - Pedro Martinez Biography from Rotoworld.com (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1741)

So much for a SUBWAY series :boohoo: :mad:

djfresh47
09-28-2006, 12:51 AM
The National League is soo bad even without Pedro whose going to beat the Mets? Even without him the Mets should be able to handle any other team in the NL. Although I think the AL will get another sweep in the WS.

GreenMonster
09-28-2006, 12:56 AM
Mets fans just hope this prediction is as spot on as the Manny will be traded this offseason rant by MikeO..

NJFINSFAN1
09-28-2006, 07:51 AM
He will start game 2 or 3, he will not be in the bullpen.

PS

The last I looked the Yanks only have one good starter (Wang)

MikeO
09-28-2006, 08:38 AM
The National League is soo bad even without Pedro whose going to beat the Mets? Even without him the Mets should be able to handle any other team in the NL. Although I think the AL will get another sweep in the WS.

If they play Houston with their pitching the Mets could be in trouble

MikeO
09-28-2006, 08:59 AM
He will start game 2 or 3, he will not be in the bullpen.

PS

The last I looked the Yanks only have one good starter (Wang)

According to reports he feels he can only throw 2 or 3 innings and he wants to go to the bullpen. Click the link I provided above. Of course things could change, but within 5 days??? I doubt it.

And the Yanks have MORE than 1 good pitcher. Mussiana! Even Wright is pitching better. Yanks have more quality depth in their staff. Maybe it isn't great, but just more depth.

Mets better get Zito this offseason because the days of counting on Pedro and Glavine are over!

nyjunc
09-28-2006, 09:09 AM
Outside of the '99 postseason Pedro was never a big game pitcher anyway, the Mets were going to have to bash their way to the WS whether Pedro started or not. it's a little tougher now but the Nl is so bad they can still win it.

Boik14
09-28-2006, 10:11 AM
The mets record without pedro this season is better then their record with pedro this season and its a pretty hefty sample size so somehow I think they can at least make the WS and depending who they play, maybe win anyway.

I am not suggesting theyre better off without , just that they've had the same success without him. I mean when this year has he really been healthy? The start of the yeah he was hurt and hes been on the dl twice and missed a handful of other starts.

nyjunc
09-28-2006, 10:13 AM
The mets record without pedro this season is better then their record with pedro this season and its a pretty hefty sample size so somehow I think they can at least make the WS and depending who they play, maybe win anyway.

I am not suggesting theyre better off without , just that they've had the same success without him. I mean when this year has he really been healthy? The start of the yeah he was hurt and hes been on the dl twice and missed a handful of other starts.

Along season and a short series are 2 different things and Pedro did go down long after they had run away w/ the division so the Mets weren't playing w/ pressure all year. That changes next week and to go in w/o your best pitcher cannot be a good feeling for the Mets.

Boik14
09-28-2006, 10:22 AM
Along season and a short series are 2 different things and Pedro did go down long after they had run away w/ the division so the Mets weren't playing w/ pressure all year. That changes next week and to go in w/o your best pitcher cannot be a good feeling for the Mets. I agree its not a good feeling but like I said pedro came in to the year hurt. He was dl'ed 2x, the 2nd time it was practically irrelevant except to his long term health but the first time was in late june/early july long before they clinched. Actually when he went down the first time it was right when the phillies and braves were hot and at that point the mets lead was 7-8 games.

Between duque, glavine and maine we can still run 3 good starters out there and the best/deepest pen in baseball.

nyjunc
09-28-2006, 10:26 AM
I agree its not a good feeling but like I said pedro came in to the year hurt. He was dl'ed 2x, the 2nd time it was practically irrelevant except to his long term health but the first time was in late june/early july long before they clinched. Actually when he went down the first time it was right when the phillies and braves were hot and at that point the mets lead was 7-8 games.

Between duque, glavine and maine we can still run 3 good starters out there and the best/deepest pen in baseball.

Glavine has always struggled in postseasona nd that's when he was much better than he is now, maine is untested and el Duque is old and his best days are long behind him but he does step up in big games. Your pen has been good all year w/ no pressure but wagner has been bad in postseason, you can't seriously count on Roberto hernandez and darren oliver in a big spot. Your pen has major question marks.

Boik14
09-28-2006, 10:34 AM
Glavine has always struggled in postseasona nd that's when he was much better than he is now, maine is untested and el Duque is old and his best days are long behind him but he does step up in big games. Your pen has been good all year w/ no pressure but wagner has been bad in postseason, you can't seriously count on Roberto hernandez and darren oliver in a big spot. Your pen has major question marks. Glavine has not always struggled in postseason, hes 12-15, 3.58...slightly worse then his career era with most of the losses coming in the nlcs where the braves typically got eliminated. http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/glavito02.shtml

Mota has had his best years with loduca catching and has been great since hes been here. Wagner's been solid the whole second half and the only team he ever struggled against was atl in the playoffs. Other then that hes been fine. Hernandez is ok and oliver is long relief so its really heilmann, mota, wagner that I worry about. And theyve been fine.

nyjunc
09-28-2006, 11:00 AM
Glavine has not always struggled in postseason, hes 12-15, 3.58...slightly worse then his career era with most of the losses coming in the nlcs where the braves typically got eliminated. http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/glavito02.shtml

Mota has had his best years with loduca catching and has been great since hes been here. Wagner's been solid the whole second half and the only team he ever struggled against was atl in the playoffs. Other then that hes been fine. Hernandez is ok and oliver is long relief so its really heilmann, mota, wagner that I worry about. And theyve been fine.

he's 12-15, 3.58 and Maddux was 11-14, 3.22 ERA. Smoltz was 15-4, 2.66 ERA. if Glavine and Maddux pistched more like smoltz in big games they'd have more than 1 title.

Mota has ben good but he's never faced postseason pressure, wagner hasn't been very good this year and in postseason his worst series was against SD in '98 when he had an ERA of 18. the only other team he has faced is Atlanta and overall he has a 7.71 ERA in postseason.

Hernandez has a 4.26 ERA in postseason(and that was when he was younger and alot better).

Ray Finkle
09-28-2006, 11:10 AM
I wouldn't place any bets on the Mets now. Pedro is a huge loss for the Mets who will have to play a team that caught fire in the first round (either LAD, Houston or SD) where anything can happen.

As much as I love Pedro I question if his career is over or not. Call me anything you want but I don't believe Pedro's calf is the only thing hurting him right now. I think his shoulder/arm is ready to fall off.

FinsNYanksFan13
09-28-2006, 11:14 AM
I'm with the minority that still thinks the Mets slug there way to the World Series but that's just me!

MikeO
09-28-2006, 12:18 PM
I wouldn't place any bets on the Mets now. Pedro is a huge loss for the Mets who will have to play a team that caught fire in the first round (either LAD, Houston or SD) where anything can happen.

As much as I love Pedro I question if his career is over or not. Call me anything you want but I don't believe Pedro's calf is the only thing hurting him right now. I think his shoulder/arm is ready to fall off.

his career isn't over. But that arm has only so many pitches in it per year.

And once he goes past that number, he has nothing (like now). He is still effective but the Mets MUST protect him better in the future years. He isn't a #1 ace on a staff anymore.

MikeO
09-28-2006, 01:20 PM
an amazing PEDRO stat.

Pedro has only won 4 games since May 30th!!!!

RWhitney014
09-28-2006, 01:25 PM
Glavine has not always struggled in postseason, hes 12-15, 3.58...slightly worse then his career era with most of the losses coming in the nlcs where the braves typically got eliminated. http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/glavito02.shtml

Mota has had his best years with loduca catching and has been great since hes been here. Wagner's been solid the whole second half and the only team he ever struggled against was atl in the playoffs. Other then that hes been fine. Hernandez is ok and oliver is long relief so its really heilmann, mota, wagner that I worry about. And theyve been fine.

You missed the end of 2004 and all of 2005 when Mota stunk with Dukie as his catcher, didn't you?

Alex44
09-28-2006, 01:26 PM
an amazing PEDRO stat.

Pedro has only won 4 games since May 30th!!!!

Yeah I knew that to, very interesting.

But what I think is more important than that is your teams win/loss record in games you pitch, which Im not sure on his.

FinsNYanksFan13
09-28-2006, 01:35 PM
I'm up in the SNY newsroom right now and I just logged the Pedro interview from after last night's game and from what I heard from him, if I was a betting man I would bet against the Mets getting anything good out of him for at the very least the division series. Pedro said he's been hurt the whole year and that he's stiff. The Mets are still the favorites with or without Pedro but it's going it's going to be a tougher road to the World Series without him. Even Willie seems down on his luck with what's going on with Pedro. Pedro was very negative during the interview and has no confidence. This is a major blow to the Mets playoff rotation!

MikeO
09-28-2006, 02:03 PM
some reports say he won't pitch at all in the NLDS. Some say he will only be used out of the bullpen.

Most seem to think he will ONLY pitch in the NLDS if the Mets are in a knockout game. Down 2-1 or even 2-2. A one and done scenerio. Which I seem to agree with and think that is what will end up happening.

Ray Finkle
09-28-2006, 05:41 PM
If Pedro goes to the bullpen he shouldn't throw 1 pitch in the playoffs. Considering how bad he's been since June there's no way he should get the ball, especially a big spot because it usually takes Pedro an inning or 2 to get warmed up. And historically his ERA in the 1st and 2nd innings are higher than the other innings.

djfresh47
09-28-2006, 07:05 PM
If they play Houston with their pitching the Mets could be in trouble

I really don't think it matters. The Mets lineup is good enough to carry them against the other NL teams. Houston has won 9 games in a row but they're barely over .500 still. The National League is pathetic and I think at the very least 8/9 best teams in baseball are in the AL with the Mets being the only team I would throw in there.

unifiedtheory
09-28-2006, 07:28 PM
According to reports he feels he can only throw 2 or 3 innings and he wants to go to the bullpen. Click the link I provided above. Of course things could change, but within 5 days??? I doubt it.

And the Yanks have MORE than 1 good pitcher. Mussiana! Even Wright is pitching better. Yanks have more quality depth in their staff. Maybe it isn't great, but just more depth.

Mets better get Zito this offseason because the days of counting on Pedro and Glavine are over!

I'm willing to bet a LOT that Zito will be a Padre.

Ray Finkle
09-28-2006, 07:58 PM
I'm willing to bet a LOT that Zito will be a Padre.

I'd agree with you considering reports are that the Mets don't have much interest in him. Plus I'm not sure if Zito could handle the East Coast.

Phins28
09-28-2006, 09:15 PM
That's a huge loss for the Mets, but the NL is so bad that the Mets could win it anyway.

finswin56
09-28-2006, 09:16 PM
Watching some of the Mets/Braves game on SNY... I missed some of what they said, but I believe they said at this point Pedro is out for the rest of the year.

Rocky Raccoon
09-28-2006, 09:18 PM
Watching some of the Mets/Braves game on SNY... I missed some of what they said, but I believe they said at this point Pedro is out for the rest of the year.

yup, he's officially done for the year now.

Boik14
09-28-2006, 10:30 PM
he's 12-15, 3.58 and Maddux was 11-14, 3.22 ERA. Smoltz was 15-4, 2.66 ERA. if Glavine and Maddux pistched more like smoltz in big games they'd have more than 1 title.

Mota has ben good but he's never faced postseason pressure, wagner hasn't been very good this year and in postseason his worst series was against SD in '98 when he had an ERA of 18. the only other team he has faced is Atlanta and overall he has a 7.71 ERA in postseason.

Hernandez has a 4.26 ERA in postseason(and that was when he was younger and alot better).Hernandez is 19-14-2.55 era in the postseason. I dont know where youre looking brotha.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hernaor01.shtml

Mota has had lo duca for 2.5 seasons between la and florida and now nym and lo duca has always been the best catcher for him. his era with lo duca catching is about a full run lower then his career era of 3.61. I think he allowed < 5 runs since hes been in ny.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/motagu01.shtml

As far as Glavine call me crazy but I have faith he can step up.

Wagner only faced Sd for 1 inning of 1 game in 98 and he got a win so how can you even count that? ATL hes faced 4 games in the postseasona nd for whatever reason they had his number. Still wagner is perfect since the break and going by his 91% save rate over the last 4 years hes perfectly capable of stepping up in the postseason and with pedro done hes their ace now so he will have to.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wagnebi02.shtml

RWhitney014
09-28-2006, 10:31 PM
Bye-bye, Pedro. And likely bye-bye, Mets. To whomever was knocking Houston as being just a .500 team, welcome to the whole NL. The reason why Wild Card teams are so successful in the playoffs is because they are riding high coming in. The Mets haven't had a big game in months.

And Houston is not an easy draw if they get in. Clemens and Oswalt are both very good, and if Pettitte is old Pettitte they're even better. The way Berkman is hitting now, the offense has enough juice with Scott and Biggio and Taveras and Ensberg. They just need Lidge to be Lidge and they could be tough.

Boik14
09-28-2006, 10:32 PM
You missed the end of 2004 and all of 2005 when Mota stunk with Dukie as his catcher, didn't you? Cause you guys tried to make him a closer and hes just not that guy apparently. regardless his era with lo duca is about a run lower then his career era

Boik14
09-28-2006, 10:35 PM
an amazing PEDRO stat.

Pedro has only won 4 games since May 30th!!!! all the more reason met fans really should not be worried. Pedro hasnt been himself all season and now we're suddenly the underdogs without him? Ok thats fine. Ill take that in a heartbeat. Anyone who doesnt believe that Reyes/lo duca/beltran/delgado/wright/floyd/green/ valentin cant slug their way to the ws is naive.

Alex44
09-28-2006, 10:56 PM
all the more reason met fans really should not be worried. Pedro hasnt been himself all season and now we're suddenly the underdogs without him? Ok thats fine. Ill take that in a heartbeat. Anyone who doesnt believe that Reyes/lo duca/beltran/delgado/wright/floyd/green/ valentin cant slug their way to the ws is naive.

Can they do it? Sure they can, but if Houston gets in the Mets are done, great pitching always (or almost always) beats great hitting

Boik14
09-28-2006, 11:14 PM
Can they do it? Sure they can, but if Houston gets in the Mets are done, great pitching always (or almost always) beats great hitting But if average pitching shuts down awful hitting (save for berkman) the mets can still get it done. If we played houston i just would walk berkman everytime he came up with a runner on cause there is absolutely no one else there that scares me even a little. Wilson's washed up, huff is overrated, Biggio is eh at this point....I think I would actually prefer to see houston instead Philly or LA, teams that can slug with us.

RWhitney014
09-29-2006, 12:27 AM
Cause you guys tried to make him a closer and hes just not that guy apparently. regardless his era with lo duca is about a run lower then his career era

He wasn't closing in 2004 when Benitez was having a career year. He wasn't closing in 2005 when he got hurt and only had the job for a week until Jones took it en route to a career year. And he had a worse ERA with us in 2004 when he wasn't closing at all.

The guy has been the property of four teams since the end of last season. Rare is the case where that bodes well for anyone, much less a reliever.

And it's a shame with Mota, because his stuff is so good. We know he can get hitters out consistently. He just pulled a post-Minny LaTroy Hawkins. He refused to throw a fastball down the middle of the plate for strike one last season. He nibbled until he fell behind 3-0, came back with a straight get-me-over BP one and got slammed, or he walked a couple guys before that.

The Mets are in trouble. The offense has not been good at all in September; only two teams have scored fewer runs in the month, and Delgado is hitting .230-something. So is Floyd. Valentin's below the Mendoza line for the month. The AARP will be starting the first three games of whatever series you guys will have, and the fourth starter is...John Maine? Mike Pelfrey? They just don't inspire much confidence.

I personally always sell high on teams like the Mets that clinch the division early and coast to the end. It's very tough to get that "it" factor back unless you're a team for the ages, like the '98 Yankees. If the offense were coming in red-hot, maybe they'd be able to overcome the sore lack of starting pitching. But unless some changes very quickly, it's not going to happen.

MikeO
09-29-2006, 12:31 AM
The problem the Mets face is they went from a team that was well rounded with strong up-front starting pitchers. Good bullpen. Outstanding lineup. A team that could beat you many ways.

Now, from here on out they are going to have to out-slug people to win in the playoffs. That is asking a lot. Not impossible, but difficult. If they don't score 5 or 6 runs a game.......they are toast most likely.

Boik14
09-29-2006, 12:47 AM
He wasn't closing in 2004 when Benitez was having a career year. He wasn't closing in 2005 when he got hurt and only had the job for a week until Jones took it en route to a career year. And he had a worse ERA with us in 2004 when he wasn't closing at all.

The guy has been the property of four teams since the end of last season. Rare is the case where that bodes well for anyone, much less a reliever.

And it's a shame with Mota, because his stuff is so good. We know he can get hitters out consistently. He just pulled a post-Minny LaTroy Hawkins. He refused to throw a fastball down the middle of the plate for strike one last season. He nibbled until he fell behind 3-0, came back with a straight get-me-over BP one and got slammed, or he walked a couple guys before that.

The Mets are in trouble. The offense has not been good at all in September; only two teams have scored fewer runs in the month, and Delgado is hitting .230-something. So is Floyd. Valentin's below the Mendoza line for the month. The AARP will be starting the first three games of whatever series you guys will have, and the fourth starter is...John Maine? Mike Pelfrey? They just don't inspire much confidence.
I personally always sell high on teams like the Mets that clinch the division early and coast to the end. It's very tough to get that "it" factor back unless you're a team for the ages, like the '98 Yankees. If the offense were coming in red-hot, maybe they'd be able to overcome the sore lack of starting pitching. But unless some changes very quickly, it's not going to happen. Actaully if Willie sees it my way Maine will be starting game 3 cause trashel and his 5 era are done imo. Pelfrey has been shut down due to a very minor back ailment. But at this point id let Dave williams start over Trax. Glavine has been pretty solid all year and El duque has a sub 4 era since hes been a met so while not spectacular theyve led the staff along with maine for a few months anyway so I believe, albeit with cautious optimism, they can pitch well even for the mets to get to the ws. Whether they or anyone can handle a stacked line up like NYY is a different animal but we'll worry about that when/if we get there.

The offense im really not worried about. Call me crazy but this "it factor" you talk about I dont really believe in. Hitting is hitting and all these guys have done is hit the snot out of the ball all season, theyre entitled to a bad month when most of the games we're playing kids and reserves. IMO we'll probably play the regs the last 2-3 games and let them get back in the swing of it. With a lineup like that I fully expect this team to win their games 7-4 like theyve done all year. Plus you want to talk about an it factor then dont forget to mention that we lead the majors in walk off wins and wright leads everyone with 5 of his own, 1 of them coming off the very Mariano rivera we're likely to face in the WS and the best closer of all time imo. Which also means absolutely no one is unhittable for this team in a clutch situation or any other situation.

As far as mota maybe the credit is due to peterson then because hes been getting ahead of hitters the way he once did in LA and Montreal/Wash using that same fastball.

Boik14
09-29-2006, 12:52 AM
Furthermore, you should all be worshiping the mets from saving all of the non atlanta braves fanbase from watching the braves lose in the postseason for the 15th time in 16 years!!!!! Good god, talk about a movie you knew the ending to!

Ray Finkle
09-29-2006, 12:56 AM
Furthermore, you should all be worshiping the mets from saving all of the non atlanta braves fanbase from watching the braves lose in the postseason for the 15th time in 16 years!!!!! Good god, talk about a movie you knew the ending to!

Yes thank you Mets for finally ending that streak. I don't know why it bothered me so much seeing the Braves always in the playoffs only to roll over and pay dead with half of their stadium empty. I guess I just like seeing new blood in the playoffs every year.

nyjunc
09-29-2006, 08:08 AM
Hernandez is 19-14-2.55 era in the postseason. I dont know where youre looking brotha.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hernaor01.shtml


ROBERTO Hernandez not orlando.


Wagner only faced Sd for 1 inning of 1 game in 98 and he got a win so how can you even count that? ATL hes faced 4 games in the postseasona nd for whatever reason they had his number. Still wagner is perfect since the break and going by his 91% save rate over the last 4 years hes perfectly capable of stepping up in the postseason and with pedro done hes their ace now so he will have to.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/wagnebi02.shtml


The Astros had a 4-2 lead when he came in for the save in the 9th but he blew it and Hou won in the bot of the 9th. his postseason ERA is 7.71, he has been good over the 2nd half of this year w/ no pressure. He can be good in october but his history wouldn't give me alot of confidence.

phunwin
09-29-2006, 08:35 AM
I am absolutely furious that the front office didn't pull the trigger on a Zito deal. I wanted it done at the time (http://phunwin.blogspot.com/2006/07/pull-trigger-omar_25.html) and now their need for another starter is even more pronounced.

(Incidentally, UT, I will take that bet against Zito becoming a Padre. He will be playing in one of the Five Boroughs...just not sure which one.)

The Mets can still get to the World Series; they've basically been without Pedro for half the season, at least now they know they won't get him back and have to move on. But right now, I can't see how they'd have a good chance against the AL's best.

nyjunc
09-29-2006, 09:05 AM
I am absolutely furious that the front office didn't pull the trigger on a Zito deal. I wanted it done at the time (http://phunwin.blogspot.com/2006/07/pull-trigger-omar_25.html) and now their need for another starter is even more pronounced.

(Incidentally, UT, I will take that bet against Zito becoming a Padre. He will be playing in one of the Five Boroughs...just not sure which one.)

The Mets can still get to the World Series; they've basically been without Pedro for half the season, at least now they know they won't get him back and have to move on. But right now, I can't see how they'd have a good chance against the AL's best.

The mets were well out in front when pedro went down, it's going to alot different in a short series. Even w/ pedro the Mets didn't have enough pitching to match up w/ the AL and now they have no shot at that BUt I think they can bash their way to the WS IF they don't see Hou in Rd 1.

NJFINSFAN1
09-29-2006, 10:35 AM
The mets were well out in front when pedro went down, it's going to alot different in a short series. Even w/ pedro the Mets didn't have enough pitching to match up w/ the AL and now they have no shot at that BUt I think they can bash their way to the WS IF they don't see Hou in Rd 1.

Only two teams in the AL scare me when facing the Mets (If we get there)

Twins & A's, everyone else else has the same pitching as the Mets.

phunwin
09-29-2006, 10:58 AM
Only two teams in the AL scare me when facing the Mets (If we get there)

Twins & A's, everyone else else has the same pitching as the Mets.

The Yankees don't scare you? Wow. I think they're the class of the field. I'm also not enthralled by Detroit. They've faded, and they have the only AL lineup that's free swinging enough to have a problem with our corner-nibbling pitching staff. The Yanks are a TERRIBLE matchup for the Mets. Too many patient hitters + pitchers who live off the plate = disaster.

BTW, check my newest blog post for more. Link's here: http://phunwin.blogspot.com

NJFINSFAN1
09-29-2006, 11:25 AM
The Yankees don't scare you? Wow. I think they're the class of the field. I'm also not enthralled by Detroit. They've faded, and they have the only AL lineup that's free swinging enough to have a problem with our corner-nibbling pitching staff. The Yanks are a TERRIBLE matchup for the Mets. Too many patient hitters + pitchers who live off the plate = disaster.

BTW, check my newest blog post for more. Link's here: http://phunwin.blogspot.com

I'm talking about pitching, not bats.

The yanks have the same starting staff we have.

Wang= Glavine
Moose= Track
Duque= Johnston (and I may even give Duque the bow because the Mets always hit Johnston well)

MikeO
09-29-2006, 11:33 AM
I'm talking about pitching, not bats.

The yanks have the same starting staff we have.

Wang= Glavine
Moose= Track
Duque= Johnston (and I may even give Duque the bow because the Mets always hit Johnston well)\

Good god you msut be kidding. Wang will finish top 3 in AL cy young (in the AL where teams actually hit) he is cleary better than Glavine.

Moose is light years ahead of Tracschel.

And El Deuque is like 60 years old and can only throw 5 innings if that per start.

NJFINSFAN1
09-29-2006, 02:47 PM
\

Good god you msut be kidding. Wang will finish top 3 in AL cy young (in the AL where teams actually hit) he is cleary better than Glavine.

Moose is light years ahead of Tracschel.

And El Deuque is like 60 years old and can only throw 5 innings if that per start.

Take your Yankee colored glasses off.

Wang has been very good yes, you want him in a big spot in Oct??? Never been there.

Moose has been hurt and very up and down, same as Track

Johnston has been plain horrible.

Face it, your pitching is in poor shape!!

Its not your staff that we would be worried about (IF we make it), but your bats.

My money is on the Twins in the AL

djfresh47
09-29-2006, 03:03 PM
I'm talking about pitching, not bats.

The yanks have the same starting staff we have.

Wang= Glavine
Moose= Track
Duque= Johnston (and I may even give Duque the bow because the Mets always hit Johnston well)

If it is a subway series and that probably is the favorite I think it'll be very high scoring. If Rich Harden was not on the DL all season and i'm assuming going to be on a pitch count who would want to play the A's. The Twinkies are a great story but they've got Johan Santana and while Bonser and Garza probably will be very good pitchers down the road whose going to be afraid of them? Like most people I don't like the Tigers although they've got some live arms but they're a team that strikes out a ton. The Mets are the only team in the NL who could win a game or two in the WS so i'm actually hoping they get there so I don't have to see 12 straight wins by AL teams in the world series.

RWhitney014
09-29-2006, 05:27 PM
Not that the Yankees' pitching is any good, but if I'm in the glass house in which the Mets currently reside, I definitely would not be throwing stones about starting pitching.

phinphan896
09-29-2006, 05:30 PM
i think its over for them

Ray Finkle
09-29-2006, 05:59 PM
Take your Yankee colored glasses off.

Wang has been very good yes, you want him in a big spot in Oct??? Never been there.

Moose has been hurt and very up and down, same as Track

Johnston has been plain horrible.

Face it, your pitching is in poor shape!!

Its not your staff that we would be worried about (IF we make it), but your bats.

My money is on the Twins in the AL

No way man. The Yankees starting pitching is much better than the Mets, even with Johnson being a huge ? mark now.

Wang is one of the best young pitchers in the game (I would have never thought I'd say that last year or even at the beginning of this year). Mussina, eventhough I'm not a big fan, is even better than any of the Mets starters and has been a pretty good post season pitcher in his Yankee career.

You can't use the "do you want Wang in Oct in a big spot" when you have Maine who's never been there and isn't half the pitcher Wang is right now.

unifiedtheory
09-29-2006, 07:25 PM
I am absolutely furious that the front office didn't pull the trigger on a Zito deal. I wanted it done at the time (http://phunwin.blogspot.com/2006/07/pull-trigger-omar_25.html) and now their need for another starter is even more pronounced.

(Incidentally, UT, I will take that bet against Zito becoming a Padre. He will be playing in one of the Five Boroughs...just not sure which one.)

The Mets can still get to the World Series; they've basically been without Pedro for half the season, at least now they know they won't get him back and have to move on. But right now, I can't see how they'd have a good chance against the AL's best.
Zito is a west coast guy. The only way I see him leaving the state of California is if Boras gets the Mets or the Yankees to blow the Padres or Dodgers out of the water with an offer. If the money is close Zito is staying on Cali.

The only thing I know FOR SURE is he is not coming back to Oakland. Oh well, I'm used to it by now.

Hopefully Harden stays in one piece and takes over the #1 spot, everyone else moves up a spot in the rotation and a young pitcher steps up (Dan Meyer would be nice but it could also be Joe Kennedy).

Rocky Raccoon
09-29-2006, 08:27 PM
\

Good god you msut be kidding. Wang will finish top 3 in AL cy young (in the AL where teams actually hit) he is cleary better than Glavine.

Moose is light years ahead of Tracschel.

And El Deuque is like 60 years old and can only throw 5 innings if that per start.

so that makes Randy Johnson what? 75 years old?

NJFINSFAN1
09-29-2006, 09:40 PM
No, but he seems to being following Pedro to the DL and may miss the playoffs

Reports are his MRI came back with herniated disc's!!!

MikeO
09-30-2006, 12:07 AM
No way man. The Yankees starting pitching is much better than the Mets, even with Johnson being a huge ? mark now.

Wang is one of the best young pitchers in the game (I would have never thought I'd say that last year or even at the beginning of this year). Mussina, eventhough I'm not a big fan, is even better than any of the Mets starters and has been a pretty good post season pitcher in his Yankee career.

You can't use the "do you want Wang in Oct in a big spot" when you have Maine who's never been there and isn't half the pitcher Wang is right now.


Wang was fine in the playoffs last year. 6.2 innings and only 1 earned run given up.

And Maine wasn't even on the Major League roster back in April. Now all of a sudden he's a sure thing :confused: :sidelol:

FinsNYanksFan13
09-30-2006, 03:13 PM
The only thing that can save the Mets is if El Duque pitches like we've all become accumstomed to him pitching int he playoffs. Aside from Glavine whoever the Mets throw out there is a question mark. El Duque's a question mark but because he's so clutch and has more guts then the rest of the Mets staff behind him, I wouldn't bet against him.

As far as the Mets staff being better or even with the Yankees, that's a joke. While the Yankees don't hold the most dominating staff, the Yankees 1-4 (assuming Johnson is healthy) have all pitched in playoff games (and 3 of them have pitched in HUGE GAMES). The Mets on the other hand are throwing 2 shaky pitchers (Maine and Trachsel) who have never pitched in the post-season in their careers!

RWhitney014
09-30-2006, 07:21 PM
Pedro's not heading to the pen, he's heading to the surgery table. Rotator cuff surgery for him next week, out at least 8 months. This is the same surgery that ended Alex Fernandez' career. Hope Pedro's not done because of this, but at the same time, that's a big dagger for the Mets.

And Zito is the antithesis of a New York guy. The only way he ends up there is if someone gives him a Tom Hicks-ARod offer.

muscle979
09-30-2006, 08:20 PM
Mets will not make the World Series. Losing Pedro will hurt, not to mention not playing a game that meant anything for a month or so. The Braves have found out how that is many times in the past.

RWhitney014
09-30-2006, 08:36 PM
Mets will not make the World Series. Losing Pedro will hurt, not to mention not playing a game that meant anything for a month or so. The Braves have found out how that is many times in the past.

For a month? Try four.

And when they actually had something to win, as in the division, they got swept. By the Pirates. (Yes, I know they beat the Marlins to do it, but still, I'm trying to make a point here.) History does not favor teams like the Mets unless they are historically good, and these Mets are not.

MikeO
09-30-2006, 09:19 PM
And Zito is the antithesis of a New York guy. The only way he ends up there is if someone gives him a Tom Hicks-ARod offer.

He will get it

RWhitney014
10-01-2006, 01:22 AM
He will get it

You realize I'm talking something along the lines of a 6 year, $120-150 million dollar contract? That's what it's going to take. Barry Zito is the penultimate California personality. He'll stay in Oakland or go to San Diego or either LA, something like that. He just wouldn't fit in New York.

MikeO
10-01-2006, 08:46 AM
Pedro out until NEXT JUNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rotator Cuff surgery is coming. Calf injury.

He's screwed!!

MikeO
10-01-2006, 08:46 AM
You realize I'm talking something along the lines of a 6 year, $120-150 million dollar contract? That's what it's going to take. Barry Zito is the penultimate California personality. He'll stay in Oakland or go to San Diego or either LA, something like that. He just wouldn't fit in New York.

The mets can offer him more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ than anyone else. With Pedro out till next June. Zito will ge it!

RWhitney014
10-01-2006, 12:34 PM
The mets can offer him more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ than anyone else. With Pedro out till next June. Zito will ge it!

You think the Mets are going to offer him $25 million a season? Man, I hope they do. He'll never play up to it.

He's staying in Cali. I will be shocked if he doesn't.

MikeO
10-01-2006, 06:09 PM
i meant they can offer him more money than any other team that will be after him.

Not make him the highest paid player in the league

Ray Finkle
10-01-2006, 06:22 PM
Like I said earlier in this thread I seriously doubted that it was really Pedro's calf that was hurting him. This rotator cuff was a big ? mark before the Mets sign him (the only reason why the Sox didn't offer him 4 years). Pedro's career, like I said, may very well be over. Pedro, from 1999 to 2001, was the greatest pitcher I have ever seen live in person and that includes guys like Clemens, Johnson, Schilling, Maddux, etc.

RWhitney014
10-01-2006, 09:30 PM
i meant they can offer him more money than any other team that will be after him.

Not make him the highest paid player in the league

No doubt about that. But I think they're going to have to make him one of the highest paid players in the league to get him to leave the West Coast.

It's a shame Bavasi has no foresight and blew his budget on Beltre and Sexson, because stealing Zito from Oakland would have been a boon for him, and he might have been able to do it with the money Lincoln authorized him to spend.

djfresh47
10-01-2006, 10:57 PM
You realize I'm talking something along the lines of a 6 year, $120-150 million dollar contract? That's what it's going to take. Barry Zito is the penultimate California personality. He'll stay in Oakland or go to San Diego or either LA, something like that. He just wouldn't fit in New York.

I think the Cardinals are going to make a big move for him. He can be a west coast guy but is Oakland really going to keep him? Their are alot of teams that are going to offer him big money and I think he goes where the money is.

MikeO
10-01-2006, 11:11 PM
No doubt about that. But I think they're going to have to make him one of the highest paid players in the league to get him to leave the West Coast.

It's a shame Bavasi has no foresight and blew his budget on Beltre and Sexson, because stealing Zito from Oakland would have been a boon for him, and he might have been able to do it with the money Lincoln authorized him to spend.

1) Seattle could step up and make a move for Barry Bonds. But LAA might not let them as they got more money to blow. Don't be shocked for Seattle to make a play for Barry though

2) Zito is chasing the money.His agent is SCOT BORUS!!! Borus won't let him take less money to stay out west. He just won't. This is the guy who sent Pudge to Detroit. Who sent Beltran to the Mets. He sends guys to cities they shouldn't be in. His history is 100% on this. Zito is going to the highest bidder. City, location.......meaningless

RWhitney014
10-01-2006, 11:49 PM
1) Seattle could step up and make a move for Barry Bonds. But LAA might not let them as they got more money to blow. Don't be shocked for Seattle to make a play for Barry though

2) Zito is chasing the money.His agent is SCOT BORUS!!! Borus won't let him take less money to stay out west. He just won't. This is the guy who sent Pudge to Detroit. Who sent Beltran to the Mets. He sends guys to cities they shouldn't be in. His history is 100% on this. Zito is going to the highest bidder. City, location.......meaningless

Why on Earth would Seattle want Bonds? How does he make them better at his price? They have plenty of positional talent with Sexson, Lopez, Betancourt, and Beltre on the infield, Johjima at catcher, and Ichiro, Adam Jones, and the perennially underrated Raul Ibanez (raise your hand if you knew his line this season was .289-33-123 this year...right). They need starting pitching badly. Meche is likely gone, Pineiro is an enigma, Washburn is a 4th starter now, and Woods and Felix are the future. They need to make a push for Zito or Schmidt or look to trade one of their OF surplus, likely Jeremy Reed, or Jeff Clement for pitching help. I still think Nolasco and a spect for Reed and Clement is a good deal for both sides, and if the Marlins can grab Soriano, too, even better.

Scott Boras is still only an agent, and Zito is too smart a guy to let $$$ get in the way of his own well-being. Landing Pudge in Detroit? No one else made an offer after he turned down the Marlins'...Boras was going to be embarrassed when his HOF catcher almost looked towards Japan. Beltran got a huge, huge, huge contract. That 7-year, $119 million deal is along the lines of what it's going to take for the Mets to land Zito, and to be honest, I know they're in New York, but they have a lot of big contracts to pay. If they offer him that, they've got a shot, but pitchers don't get those kinds of deals, especially pitchers who have not had a dominating year since 2002. (And before I get flamed, Zito has been very good the past four years, just not on par with his 23-5, 2.75 '02 campaign, and certainly not deserving of the largest contract ever given to a pitcher.)

King Felix
10-02-2006, 12:21 AM
Why on Earth would Seattle want Bonds? How does he make them better at his price? They have plenty of positional talent with Sexson, Lopez, Betancourt, and Beltre on the infield, Johjima at catcher, and Ichiro, Adam Jones, and the perennially underrated Raul Ibanez (raise your hand if you knew his line this season was .289-33-123 this year...right). They need starting pitching badly. Meche is likely gone, Pineiro is an enigma, Washburn is a 4th starter now, and Woods and Felix are the future. They need to make a push for Zito or Schmidt or look to trade one of their OF surplus, likely Jeremy Reed, or Jeff Clement for pitching help. I still think Nolasco and a spect for Reed and Clement is a good deal for both sides, and if the Marlins can grab Soriano, too, even better.

Scott Boras is still only an agent, and Zito is too smart a guy to let $$$ get in the way of his own well-being. Landing Pudge in Detroit? No one else made an offer after he turned down the Marlins'...Boras was going to be embarrassed when his HOF catcher almost looked towards Japan. Beltran got a huge, huge, huge contract. That 7-year, $119 million deal is along the lines of what it's going to take for the Mets to land Zito, and to be honest, I know they're in New York, but they have a lot of big contracts to pay. If they offer him that, they've got a shot, but pitchers don't get those kinds of deals, especially pitchers who have not had a dominating year since 2002. (And before I get flamed, Zito has been very good the past four years, just not on par with his 23-5, 2.75 '02 campaign, and certainly not deserving of the largest contract ever given to a pitcher.)*raises hand*

meche, pinerio are gone.....there was a article earlier this year that schmidt said he'd liked to play in seattle......that would be nice

MikeO
10-02-2006, 12:30 AM
Why on Earth would Seattle want Bonds? How does he make them better at his price? They have plenty of positional talent with Sexson, Lopez, Betancourt, and Beltre on the infield, Johjima at catcher, and Ichiro, Adam Jones, and the perennially underrated Raul Ibanez (raise your hand if you knew his line this season was .289-33-123 this year...right). They need starting pitching badly. Meche is likely gone, Pineiro is an enigma, Washburn is a 4th starter now, and Woods and Felix are the future. They need to make a push for Zito or Schmidt or look to trade one of their OF surplus, likely Jeremy Reed, or Jeff Clement for pitching help. I still think Nolasco and a spect for Reed and Clement is a good deal for both sides, and if the Marlins can grab Soriano, too, even better.



Bonds will sell out EVERY GAME from now till he breaks Aarons record. THAT's why Seattle will want him!! That's the same reason Oakland will even look into him, and they already have a good DH in Frank Thomas.

This is entertainment and a business BEFORE a sport. Always remember that.

MikeO
10-02-2006, 12:32 AM
Scott Boras is still only an agent, and Zito is too smart a guy to let $$$ get in the way of his own well-being.

ha ha ha ha ha ha......how naive!

Boras and the MLBPU won't let Zito turn down more money to go somewhere else. TRUST ME!!!!!! Have you even followed the career of Scot Borus??! Zito is going to the highest bidder, end of story.

RWhitney014
10-02-2006, 12:53 AM
ha ha ha ha ha ha......how naive!

Boras and the MLBPU won't let Zito turn down more money to go somewhere else. TRUST ME!!!!!! Have you even followed the career of Scot Borus??! Zito is going to the highest bidder, end of story.

I don't typically build altars to agents in my closet, no, but I know Boras' history. Let's just let this one play out and discuss it when it happens. We both have staked our claims and have perfectly good arguments on both sides.

And C2C, you don't count re: Ibanez.

RWhitney014
10-02-2006, 12:55 AM
Bonds will sell out EVERY GAME from now till he breaks Aarons record. THAT's why Seattle will want him!! That's the same reason Oakland will even look into him, and they already have a good DH in Frank Thomas.

This is entertainment and a business BEFORE a sport. Always remember that.

That's all fine and good, but selling out seats won't keep Bill Bavasi employed if his team is constantly losing 90 games. And that is his priority.

King Felix
10-02-2006, 01:10 AM
need to fire hargrove...man it would be nice if they could and somehow reel in giradi wont happen tho.

MikeO
10-02-2006, 11:29 AM
need to fire hargrove...man it would be nice if they could and somehow reel in giradi wont happen tho.

Hargrove isn't going anywhere. He did a good job this year with that bunch.

MikeO
10-02-2006, 02:03 PM
I don't typically build altars to agents in my closet, no, but I know Boras' history. Let's just let this one play out and discuss it when it happens. We both have staked our claims and have perfectly good arguments on both sides.

.

Let's see how it plays out. I claim Zito goes to the highest bidder. West Coast, East coast, midwest, south.....doesnt' matter. Whoever offers the most he goes.

Also, if Zito beats Santana in Game 1 tomorrow...........he will make himself even MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ when he hits the market. His price tag will take a huge jump!

RWhitney014
10-02-2006, 03:43 PM
Let's see how it plays out. I claim Zito goes to the highest bidder. West Coast, East coast, midwest, south.....doesnt' matter. Whoever offers the most he goes.

Also, if Zito beats Santana in Game 1 tomorrow...........he will make himself even MORE $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ when he hits the market. His price tag will take a huge jump!

You're not kidding on that one. Santana doesn't lose at home. Ever.

FinsNYanksFan13
10-02-2006, 10:30 PM
Zito's going for the money most likely unless the money is real close. If Team A on the West Coast is offering 4 years 40 million and Team B in the middle of the country is offering 4 years 44 million he's going to the West Coast but if it's like Johnny Damon's deal where the Red Sox offered 4 years 40 million and the Yankees came and offered 4 years 52 million, no way he leaves 12 million on the table. Johnny Damon would have came to the Red Sox at 48 million (close money) but since they didn't give it to him he had no choice but to go to the Yankees. That's what I see happening with Zito. If it's a choice between a couple million dollards no doubt he'll go where he's comfortable. If it's 10 million more between going to a team say in the mid west or a team he prefers to play for he's going to take the money and learn to be comfortable in his new surroundings!

Roman529
10-03-2006, 03:17 PM
Mets may now be without El Dukie as well.

NYPhinFan
10-08-2006, 01:38 AM
We would like to thank the NY Mets for an entertaining 2006 MLB season.

But with the news that Pedro is likely headed to the bullpen for the playoffs, your chances of winning the NL and World Series are all but over.

Pedro Martinez : Rotoworld.com - Pedro Martinez Biography from Rotoworld.com (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=1741)

So much for a SUBWAY series :boohoo: :mad:
What an absolutely GLORIOUS title for a Thread!..Right on the money! :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno:
Thank You so much for all of your entertaining posts!...but your season and your NY POST style of HEADLINES proved to be wrong...well at least on the FLushing side of town.
Keep on doubting this team at EVERY turn...for all they have done all year is win...despite short on pitching...despite every team in the National League who did not even make the Playoffs warning how scared the Mets are to play them.
I do not have blinders on when it comes to this team...but they have proved that they will not quit..will keep on chugging....and PROVED to be the MOST entertaining team to STILL...STILL be playing. You were right about the SUBWAY SERIES:boohoo: :boohoo:

MikeO
10-08-2006, 02:35 AM
What an absolutely GLORIOUS title for a Thread!..Right on the money! :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno:
Thank You so much for all of your entertaining posts!...but your season and your NY POST style of HEADLINES proved to be wrong...well at least on the FLushing side of town.
Keep on doubting this team at EVERY turn...for all they have done all year is win...despite short on pitching...despite every team in the National League who did not even make the Playoffs warning how scared the Mets are to play them.
I do not have blinders on when it comes to this team...but they have proved that they will not quit..will keep on chugging....and PROVED to be the MOST entertaining team to STILL...STILL be playing. You were right about the SUBWAY SERIES:boohoo: :boohoo:

ya haven't won anything yet buddy. Settle down! :lol:

Ya just beat the wild card team in the weakest league MLB has seen in decades. While is a nice win....if ya lose next round are ya gonna be happy??!! I doubt it!

NYPhinFan
10-09-2006, 09:25 AM
ya haven't won anything yet buddy. Settle down! :lol:

Ya just beat the wild card team in the weakest league MLB has seen in decades. While is a nice win....if ya lose next round are ya gonna be happy??!! I doubt it!
I am settled just fine:lol: :lol:
I get tired of the excuse of the "weak" national league team stuff. WE play who is in front of us...and what would be worse...beating these "weak teams" or losing to those teams??
The way the Yankees played....they would have fit right in with the "weak" National league teams...NO???..NO PITCHING....NO HITTING...NONE OF THE LITTLE THINGS that win games. :eek: :eek:

NYPhinFan
10-09-2006, 11:34 AM
One of the ALL-TIME classic quotes comes from Steinbrenner right after the Mets won game 1 from LA and was asked by a reporter if he was "scared" of meeting the Mets in the world series(obviously a dumb question)..yet his answer was even funnier "Not with the way they played tonight!"..OMG...:sidelol: :sidelol: ...wonder what his thoughts are right now...Sometimes its just better to say nothing.:boohoo: :boohoo:

nyjunc
10-09-2006, 03:25 PM
One of the ALL-TIME classic quotes comes from Steinbrenner right after the Mets won game 1 from LA and was asked by a reporter if he was "scared" of meeting the Mets in the world series(obviously a dumb question)..yet his answer was even funnier "Not with the way they played tonight!"..OMG...:sidelol: :sidelol: ...wonder what his thoughts are right now...Sometimes its just better to say nothing.:boohoo: :boohoo:

if he said that it would have been all over the news arouind here. I never heard of him saying that, post the link.

NJFINSFAN1
10-09-2006, 03:27 PM
if he said that it would have been all over the news arouind here. I never heard of him saying that, post the link.

I agree, and I'm a Met fan. The Bergen Record would have had that posted all over the sports pages.

NYPhinFan
10-09-2006, 04:02 PM
if he said that it would have been all over the news arouind here. I never heard of him saying that, post the link.
I saw it in the NY Post last week after the first Met win...and went to the archives of the NY Post on here and found it again. I do not know how to post the link but will give you the date it was in the paper.

NYPhinFan
10-09-2006, 04:06 PM
I am looking at the article now online...OCT 5th...the title of the article is Boss not impressed by Mets...written by Dan Martini. Why would I make that up? If you go to NYPOST.com...you will find it...sorry I don't know how to post the link

NJFINSFAN1
10-09-2006, 04:48 PM
I saw it in the NY Post last week after the first Met win...and went to the archives of the NY Post on here and found it again. I do not know how to post the link but will give you the date it was in the paper.

The New York post is the biggest paper know for yellow Journalism. I'm not saying it did not happen, but I don't believe one thing that comes out of that paper.

And it was not picked up by any other papers which I find even more telling.

RWhitney014
10-09-2006, 04:51 PM
The New York post is the biggest paper know for yellow Journalism. I'm not saying it did not happen, but I don't believe one thing that comes out of that paper.

And it was not picked up by any other papers which I find even more telling.

Yeah, you've got to think that would have been front page news.

The Post is hard to believe most of the time. I loved it back in March when they buried in a story about Nomar that the Marlins were set to trade Cabrera to the Yankees. What's the point of that?

NYPhinFan
10-09-2006, 04:57 PM
The New York post is the biggest paper know for yellow Journalism. I'm not saying it did not happen, but I don't believe one thing that comes out of that paper.

And it was not picked up by any other papers which I find even more telling.
So did you see the article...like to know I am not losing my mind!..Thanks

NJFINSFAN1
10-09-2006, 05:26 PM
So did you see the article...like to know I am not losing my mind!..Thanks


I have not looked at the Post since they put Eric Claptons kid with his brains spilling out all over the street after he fell out the window on the front page!!!

Boik14
10-09-2006, 05:28 PM
The New York post is the biggest paper know for yellow Journalism. I'm not saying it did not happen, but I don't believe one thing that comes out of that paper.

And it was not picked up by any other papers which I find even more telling. Its in todays daily news also

NYPhinFan
10-09-2006, 06:39 PM
Its in todays daily news also
Thank You...so I am not losing my mind!:goof: :goof:

Boik14
10-09-2006, 06:51 PM
Thank You...so I am not losing my mind!:goof: :goof: Well that cant be totally confirmed :)

NYPhinFan
10-09-2006, 07:06 PM
Well with 2 boys..ages 6 and 4...my sanity is in doubt everyday!