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DeathStar
10-03-2006, 10:15 AM
Marlins fire manager Girardi after surprising season

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[URL="http://sportsline.com/mlb/teams/page/FLA"]Florida Marlins (http://sportsline.com/mlb/teams/page/FLA) manager Joe Girardi (http://sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/7638) was fired Tuesday, a move that had been expected after his rift with owner Jeffrey Loria boiled over in an on-field confrontation two months ago.

http://sportsline.com/mlb/story/9702320

DeathStar
10-03-2006, 10:23 AM
Report: Marlins tab Gonzalez to replace Girardi


They won't exactly pass each other in the Dolphin Stadium parking lot, but it shouldn't take long for the Marlins to grab the keys from Joe Girardi and hand them to Fredi Gonzalez.



http://sportsline.com/mlb/story/9702238

RWhitney014
10-03-2006, 10:43 AM
Viva la Fredi!

DeathStar
10-03-2006, 11:07 AM
Viva la Fredi!

i thought it was Vive le France!

RWhitney014
10-03-2006, 12:05 PM
2 o'clock press conference to announce Fredi according to the team site.

What I'm interested to see is which coaches stay on board. Obviously Tuck is gone, which I'm fine with, and if Meacham leaves, that's kinda sucky, since he didn't pull a Jeff Cox send-em-when-the-cutoff-man-already-has-the-ball all season, but I really want to see Kranitz and Presley stick around. They did absolutely fantastic jobs this year and deserve to stick around.

If Presley goes, watch for Andres Galarraga to come on board as hitting coach. But I wonder who Fredi will tab as his bench coach.

Vertical Limit
10-03-2006, 12:28 PM
I'm glad that Girardi will be gone. He did a great job, but obviously behind the scenes it was getting ugly, and it probably has been a big distraction for this young ball club.

RWhitney014
10-03-2006, 05:41 PM
BTW, before we get started and I get smashed for saying this, let's practice some spelling here.

It is F-R-E-D-I. Not "Fredy", "Freddy", "Freddi", "Freddie", or "Frojpazie". Thanks for letting me get that out of the system.

RWhitney014
10-09-2006, 03:24 PM
Let's get this puppy going. I'll start.

Ken Rosenthal reports that A-Rod will be on the block and that the Marlins would be interested. Don't come with the financial part of it. If Willis is in the deal, which he would have to be, with the Rangers paying a lot of the contract ($8 million this year and '09 and $7 in 2008, I think), the contracts are doable. New York would have to assume some of the salary, so if we're looking at $5-6 million, the acquiring team is going to be paying about $10-11/year for A-Rod. Willis' contract is going to be somewhere in that range after this year.

So would you do it? Where would you play the players (Cabrera at third, A-Rod at SS, Hanley in CF? Cabrera in LF, A-Rod at 3rd, Hammer at 1st or traded? Etc.)? Who are you willing to give up?

And...go.

tucker
10-09-2006, 04:35 PM
i dont know if i would want him...how about get a couple good players for that amount, than just one player who just came off his worst year

Vertical Limit
10-09-2006, 04:51 PM
Let's get this puppy going. I'll start.

Ken Rosenthal reports that A-Rod will be on the block and that the Marlins would be interested. Don't come with the financial part of it. If Willis is in the deal, which he would have to be, with the Rangers paying a lot of the contract ($8 million this year and '09 and $7 in 2008, I think), the contracts are doable. New York would have to assume some of the salary, so if we're looking at $5-6 million, the acquiring team is going to be paying about $10-11/year for A-Rod. Willis' contract is going to be somewhere in that range after this year.

So would you do it? Where would you play the players (Cabrera at third, A-Rod at SS, Hanley in CF? Cabrera in LF, A-Rod at 3rd, Hammer at 1st or traded? Etc.)? Who are you willing to give up?

And...go.
No thanks. Just can't picture A-Rod in South Florida.

Vertical Limit
10-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Just thought of something, bringing A-Rod here to South Florida will bring the "Shaq Arrival" type of thing in South Florida, where everyone started to buy tickets and come to our games. So maybe it is a good idea. Only difference between Shaq and A-Rod, Shaq came to South Florida with 3 rings.

Ray Finkle
10-09-2006, 05:40 PM
Wishful thinking but there's no way Arod would say yes to coming to FL to play in a pitcher's park in front of 5,000 fans a night.

Plus getting Arod would mean losing Willis and/or Miggy Cabrera (who puts up numbers similar to Arod for half the price).

RWhitney014
10-09-2006, 06:19 PM
No thanks. Just can't picture A-Rod in South Florida.

Well, he went to high school here. He lives here in the offseason. That doesn't make sense.

Vertical Limit
10-09-2006, 08:01 PM
Wishful thinking but there's no way Arod would say yes to coming to FL to play in a pitcher's park in front of 5,000 fans a night.

Plus getting Arod would mean losing Willis and/or Miggy Cabrera (who puts up numbers similar to Arod for half the price).
Wishful thinking? I'm sorry, but A-Rod is the anti-clutch. I don't wish for A-Rod to come. He is just a big name around the league and could sell tickets, but I don't wish for him. I rather have Hanley Ramirez anytime, any day.

RWhitney014
10-09-2006, 08:07 PM
Wishful thinking? I'm sorry, but A-Rod is the anti-clutch. I don't wish for A-Rod to come. He is just a big name around the league and could sell tickets, but I don't wish for him. I rather have Hanley Ramirez anytime, any day.

Hanley's not going anywhere. Neither is Cabrera. This would be pitching for offense.

And I remember A-Rod lighting up the world in the 2004 playoffs. It's not like he's never done it before. His crappy year was .290-35-120. Imagine the protection he'd supply for Uggla and Miggy. It would a sight to behold.

Ray Finkle
10-09-2006, 10:00 PM
Wishful thinking? I'm sorry, but A-Rod is the anti-clutch. I don't wish for A-Rod to come. He is just a big name around the league and could sell tickets, but I don't wish for him. I rather have Hanley Ramirez anytime, any day.

Isn't that what the Marlins need though? He's a future Hall of Famer and one of the best players in baseball. Yes he's had trouble in the playoffs but he was good in Seattle in the playoffs and before Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS he was batting over .400.

If Arod would say yes to the Marlins, the FO and fans would be nuts to say no to him (of course depending on how much talent you'd have to give up). He'd put butts in the seats, which the Marlins need, and he could have been the difference in the Marlins making the playoffs or not.

If Arod was on the Marlins, he'd play SS and the you could move Hanley to CF (which he played a little bit in the minors with the Red Sox and let's face it Arod is a better SS) so you kill two birds with 1 stone. The Marlins get a big bat to protect Miggy and get a CFer.

Of course like I say earlier I doubt he'd ever say yes to go to FL but if he would I'd jump on it. I bet he'd be good with the Marlins, there would be no Jeter comparisons or pressure on him.

Boik14
10-09-2006, 10:37 PM
As a met fan the idea Arod in south florida would be daunting I must admit because I believe that arod would flourish with less pressure and scrutiny. The biggest downside I see is that many marlin fans are transported New Yorkers who have already judged arod to be a choke artist and failure.

The other thing I see is that a team so pitching rich with young kids should make the deal if it comes available

IMO, if it did go down I would play arod at 3b, hanley at ss, miggy in lf, Willingham in LF and Hermedia in CF. Obviously Uglla and Jacobs stay put.

DeathStar
10-09-2006, 11:02 PM
Wishful thinking but there's no way Arod would say yes to coming to FL to play in a pitcher's park in front of 5,000 fans a night.

Plus getting Arod would mean losing Willis and/or Miggy Cabrera (who puts up numbers similar to Arod for half the price).

400G compared to 25 million this year.

no way near half.:lol:

Ray Finkle
10-09-2006, 11:05 PM
400G compared to 25 million this year.

no way near half.:lol:

Well IF FL traded for ARod the Yankees would probably pay half of his 15 million they owe him, so he'd cost FL about 7 or 8, Miggy will make about 4 mill in arbitration. So it would be half.

RWhitney014
10-09-2006, 11:10 PM
As a met fan the idea Arod in south florida would be daunting I must admit because I believe that arod would flourish with less pressure and scrutiny. The biggest downside I see is that many marlin fans are transported New Yorkers who have already judged arod to be a choke artist and failure.

The other thing I see is that a team so pitching rich with young kids should make the deal if it comes available

IMO, if it did go down I would play arod at 3b, hanley at ss, miggy in lf, Willingham in LF and Hermedia in CF. Obviously Uglla and Jacobs stay put.

Hermida's a RF and will not change. Should A-Rod come here, he'd probably play short and Hanley would move to center.

But the argument that Marlins fans are New Yorkers and have preconceived notions doesn't hold water. That just makes no sense.

UCFinfan86
10-09-2006, 11:23 PM
Hermida's a RF and will not change. Should A-Rod come here, he'd probably play short and Hanley would move to center.

But the argument that Marlins fans are New Yorkers and have preconceived notions doesn't hold water. That just makes no sense.

Yup, all the new yorkers that come down here stay new york fans, thats why there is no one at florida games and why u see so many yankee fans

Boik14
10-10-2006, 12:54 AM
Yup, all the new yorkers that come down here stay new york fans, thats why there is no one at florida games and why u see so many yankee fansNo one is at florida games cause the casual fan just sees that they put almost nothing into the team. Plus the stadium isnt a real good baseball fan experience.

Boik14
10-10-2006, 01:00 AM
Hermida's a RF and will not change. Should A-Rod come here, he'd probably play short and Hanley would move to center.

But the argument that Marlins fans are New Yorkers and have preconceived notions doesn't hold water. That just makes no sense. I didnt say all marlins fans are new yorkers, but certainly there are some and there is simply no way to deny that with the number of transplanted NY'ers there. That percentage of the fanbase imo would likely have made a judgement regarding arods failures in NY already. It makes sense but obviously its over your head.

Anyway, I didnt post in this thread to start a conversation about nonsense just to give an opinion. It would be a very bold move for the Marlins to go after arod and one the marlins should make imo.

MikeO
10-10-2006, 01:20 AM
Hanley's not going anywhere. Neither is Cabrera. This would be pitching for offense.

And I remember A-Rod lighting up the world in the 2004 playoffs. It's not like he's never done it before. His crappy year was .290-35-120. Imagine the protection he'd supply for Uggla and Miggy. It would a sight to behold.

His Seattle playoff numbers are very good as well. People ignore them to push the "agenda" nowadays. In 3 postseason series in Seattle. he hit around .308, .312, and .409.

In the 2004 ALDS vs Minny for the Yanks he hit around .420 with an OB% of around .500!!!. Even in the 2004 ALCS vs Boston. He had like 8 hits, 8 runs. 2 homers, 5 RBI's and 4 walks in only seven games with a low batting avg around .260. But you can live with that batting avg with those kind of "production" numbers.

MikeO
10-10-2006, 01:23 AM
Also.........if AROD went to the Marlins. I bet within 6 months a new stadium deal would be done and in place with groundbreaking begun in 9-12 months.

AROD would move product in that area with his heratige. He could break the all time MLB home run record there. And be the first Marlin to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. He would do more in that area for MLB than winning the 2 world championships ever did. And Im dead serious about that.

MikeO
10-10-2006, 01:25 AM
Hanley's not going anywhere. Neither is Cabrera. This would be pitching for offense.

.

Cabrera might be part of a deal!! You know the Marlins down the road wouldn't be able too afford BOTH Arod and Miggy. And by trading for AROD you are investing big-time in him. Meaning Miggy will walk eventually because he will be paid like a TOP 5 player in the league that he is.

Boik14
10-10-2006, 02:01 AM
Also.........if AROD went to the Marlins. I bet within 6 months a new stadium deal would be done and in place with groundbreaking begun in 9-12 months.

AROD would move product in that area with his heratige. He could break the all time MLB home run record there. And be the first Marlin to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. He would do more in that area for MLB than winning the 2 world championships ever did. And Im dead serious about that. Not to mention arod would finally have a team that wanted to keep him and have him retire his number there. So far hes 0-3

Ferretsquig
10-10-2006, 10:07 AM
Last time I checked ARod had a no trade clause. Who in their right mind would willingly come to Florida to play baseball when this ownership group has shown no inclination to pay anyone without a new stadium? And why do you think the Marlins are willing to even pay 6 mil to a player? They claimed they lost money last year with their 18 mil payroll since they have built up so much debt over the previous four.

UCFinfan86
10-10-2006, 10:20 AM
Last time I checked ARod had a no trade clause. Who in their right mind would willingly come to Florida to play baseball when this ownership group has shown no inclination to pay anyone without a new stadium? And why do you think the Marlins are willing to even pay 6 mil to a player? They claimed they lost money last year with their 18 mil payroll since they have built up so much debt over the previous four.

Im not saying i want him i florida, but i beleive the ownership would make money(not that i ever belevied they were losing money) He would sell tickets, apparel, provide marketing.

MikeO
10-10-2006, 11:39 AM
Florida one day is signing Delgado for big money. The next they are crying poverty. They have been doing these things for years!!

That franchise has money. If they want AROD they could pull it together!

RWhitney014
10-10-2006, 12:14 PM
I didnt say all marlins fans are new yorkers, but certainly there are some and there is simply no way to deny that with the number of transplanted NY'ers there. That percentage of the fanbase imo would likely have made a judgement regarding arods failures in NY already. It makes sense but obviously its over your head.

Anyway, I didnt post in this thread to start a conversation about nonsense just to give an opinion. It would be a very bold move for the Marlins to go after arod and one the marlins should make imo.

Nice dig there. Really classy.

Marlins fans didn't care about Carlos Delgado not standing for God Bless America even though the NY press tried to make it a big deal out of spite when he signed here. The same fans who also root for the Panthers don't care about Todd Bertuzzi smacking Steve Moore over the head as long as he scores goals, even though the media tried to make it a big deal. The same Heat fans love Alonzo Mourning even though he left for greener pastures after the team emotionally and financially nursed him to health after his kidney ordeal. Fans are reactionary and only care what you do for them, not what you did in the past. To suggest that Marlins fans would not get excited over Alex Rodriguez, the man who went .290-35-120 in career-low year, is beyond ridiculous.

After all, Daunte Culpepper never won a thing in Minnesota. He wasn't exactly clutch up there. They lost big games and never made good on their potential. But didn't the same fans who root for the Marlins get totally jazzed when he was acquired?

RWhitney014
10-10-2006, 12:18 PM
Also.........if AROD went to the Marlins. I bet within 6 months a new stadium deal would be done and in place with groundbreaking begun in 9-12 months.

AROD would move product in that area with his heratige. He could break the all time MLB home run record there. And be the first Marlin to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. He would do more in that area for MLB than winning the 2 world championships ever did. And Im dead serious about that.

Bingo. A franchise looking for stability holds a press conference to say that they will break ground on a stadium and have acquired Alex Rodriguez. Hello, $$$.

Cabrera won't be traded. I would not trade him straight up for A-Rod, simply because he'll be putting up similar stats but he's 10 years younger. The deal would be for pitching, but they'll find a way to make it work.

Ferret, he does have a no-trade clause, but only covers 25 teams. Florida is on the short list of teams he does not need to give his consent to be traded to. That's enough of an endorsement right there to determine if he would play here.

UCFinfan86
10-10-2006, 12:21 PM
Bingo. A franchise looking for stability holds a press conference to say that they will break ground on a stadium and have acquired Alex Rodriguez. Hello, $$$.

Cabrera won't be traded. I would not trade him straight up for A-Rod, simply because he'll be putting up similar stats but he's 10 years younger. The deal would be for pitching, but they'll find a way to make it work.

Ferret, he does have a no-trade clause, but only covers 25 teams. Florida is on the short list of teams he does not need to give his consent to be traded to. That's enough of an endorsement right there to determine if he would play here.

Do you know the other teams he doesn't have a no trade clause for?

Ferretsquig
10-10-2006, 12:57 PM
Bingo. A franchise looking for stability holds a press conference to say that they will break ground on a stadium and have acquired Alex Rodriguez. Hello, $$$.

The only way they get a new stadium is if the taxpayers pay for it, and I dont see anyone offering them anything more than land. The ownership has so much debt and no strong revenue source....noone is going to give them money.


Ferret, he does have a no-trade clause, but only covers 25 teams. Florida is on the short list of teams he does not need to give his consent to be traded to. That's enough of an endorsement right there to determine if he would play here.

And where did you get that from? He may have declared a preference to go to certain teams if he was to be traded, but his no-trade clause is just like all others. He can't get sent anywhere without final approval.

UCFinfan86
10-10-2006, 04:21 PM
The only way they get a new stadium is if the taxpayers pay for it, and I dont see anyone offering them anything more than land. The ownership has so much debt and no strong revenue source....noone is going to give them money.



And where did you get that from? He may have declared a preference to go to certain teams if he was to be traded, but his no-trade clause is just like all others. He can't get sent anywhere without final approval.

There's alot of no trade clauses where they have only certain teams where they can't get traded to.

RWhitney014
10-10-2006, 06:46 PM
And where did you get that from? He may have declared a preference to go to certain teams if he was to be traded, but his no-trade clause is just like all others. He can't get sent anywhere without final approval.

I read it the other day. I'll look for it, but there are plenty of limited no-trade clauses. Torii Hunter has one, I know for sure.

Boik14
10-11-2006, 11:59 AM
Nice dig there. Really classy.

Marlins fans didn't care about Carlos Delgado not standing for God Bless America even though the NY press tried to make it a big deal out of spite when he signed here. The same fans who also root for the Panthers don't care about Todd Bertuzzi smacking Steve Moore over the head as long as he scores goals, even though the media tried to make it a big deal. The same Heat fans love Alonzo Mourning even though he left for greener pastures after the team emotionally and financially nursed him to health after his kidney ordeal. Fans are reactionary and only care what you do for them, not what you did in the past. To suggest that Marlins fans would not get excited over Alex Rodriguez, the man who went .290-35-120 in career-low year, is beyond ridiculous.
After all, Daunte Culpepper never won a thing in Minnesota. He wasn't exactly clutch up there. They lost big games and never made good on their potential. But didn't the same fans who root for the Marlins get totally jazzed when he was acquired? I suggested they would get excited over arod. I even said it would be a very bold move (last post) and that as met fan the idea Arod in south florida would be daunting I must admit because I believe that arod would flourish with less pressure and scrutiny (first post). Where are you getting that I said Marlin fans wouldnt get excited over this?

RWhitney014
10-11-2006, 12:12 PM
I suggested they would get excited over arod. I even said it would be a very bold move (last post) and that as met fan the idea Arod in south florida would be daunting I must admit because I believe that arod would flourish with less pressure and scrutiny (first post). Where are you getting that I said Marlin fans wouldnt get excited over this?

From your first post: "The biggest downside I see is that many marlin fans are transported New Yorkers who have already judged arod to be a choke artist and failure."

To me, that means that no one would get excited because they've already prejudged him. If that's not what you meant, then I don't really understand where you're going with that.

Bottom line, every single trade the Marlins can make this offseason is going to revolve around Willis. You give him up, you get a king's ransom. You don't, you're talking minor improvements, which would still be helpful but are minor.

Look around and see who's available...Chris Young? Rocco Baldelli? Carl Crawford? Alex Rodriguez? If you're trading Dontrelle Willis, you need to get a player like A-Rod in return or there will be a fan revolt. That's a matter of fact.

Boik14
10-11-2006, 12:56 PM
From your first post: "The biggest downside I see is that many marlin fans are transported New Yorkers who have already judged arod to be a choke artist and failure."

To me, that means that no one would get excited because they've already prejudged him. If that's not what you meant, then I don't really understand where you're going with that.

Bottom line, every single trade the Marlins can make this offseason is going to revolve around Willis. You give him up, you get a king's ransom. You don't, you're talking minor improvements, which would still be helpful but are minor.

Look around and see who's available...Chris Young? Rocco Baldelli? Carl Crawford? Alex Rodriguez? If you're trading Dontrelle Willis, you need to get a player like A-Rod in return or there will be a fan revolt. That's a matter of fact. For someone who writes a lot you sure do struggle with the meaning of the word context.

When I said "The biggest downside I see is that many marlin fans are transported New Yorkers who have already judged arod to be a choke artist and failure." nowhere in that statement do I say that no marlin fan would get excited about the acquisition of arod should it even occur. I dont even infer that much. All I said was that the marlin fans who are transported New Yorkers will have already judged him. Now unless youre revoking your earlier statement that "no marlin fans are from NY" or whatever such stuff you wrote earlier I dont see how all marlin fans are included in that. Now stop trying to make my statement something more then it was meant to be cause its getting silly already.

RWhitney014
10-11-2006, 02:04 PM
For someone who writes a lot you sure do struggle with the meaning of the word context.

When I said "The biggest downside I see is that many marlin fans are transported New Yorkers who have already judged arod to be a choke artist and failure." nowhere in that statement do I say that no marlin fan would get excited about the acquisition of arod should it even occur. I dont even infer that much. All I said was that the marlin fans who are transported New Yorkers will have already judged him. Now unless youre revoking your earlier statement that "no marlin fans are from NY" or whatever such stuff you wrote earlier I dont see how all marlin fans are included in that. Now stop trying to make my statement something more then it was meant to be cause its getting silly already.

Thanks, I know what context is.

And it's funny that you're doing the exact same thing you're getting on me for, since I never said no Marlins fan are from New York. I said that the fact that a lot of the people in SoFla are from New York does not mean they have preconceived notions about whether A-Rod is a clutch player.

This thread is supposed to be about the Marlins' offseason, not about semantics. Frankly, I'd rather talk about that than have a pissing match with you. It's not fun for anyone.

Boik14
10-11-2006, 03:01 PM
Thanks, I know what context is.

And it's funny that you're doing the exact same thing you're getting on me for, since I never said no Marlins fan are from New York. I said that the fact that a lot of the people in SoFla are from New York does not mean they have preconceived notions about whether A-Rod is a clutch player.

This thread is supposed to be about the Marlins' offseason, not about semantics. Frankly, I'd rather talk about that than have a pissing match with you. It's not fun for anyone. "But the argument that Marlins fans are New Yorkers and have preconceived notions doesn't hold water. That just makes no sense." I didnt write that. You did. You made that argument. That statement wasnt my argument.

Im done with this.

RWhitney014
10-11-2006, 03:40 PM
"But the argument that Marlins fans are New Yorkers and have preconceived notions doesn't hold water. That just makes no sense." I didnt write that. You did. You made that argument. That statement wasnt my argument.

Im done with this.

Wow. You totally misunderstood that statement. The part that doesn't make sense is the preconceived notions part, not that some Marlins fans are from New York. That's what I've been saying the whole time. You think I'm going to argue population stats?

Get Up And Go
11-01-2006, 09:26 PM
Three fish file for free agency,

Moe, Helms, and Herges. I think they should go after Helms and leave the rest.

Alex44
11-02-2006, 04:20 PM
Im going to have to side with RWhitney on this one.

Its not even true that most of our fans are from New York. In fact most New Yorkers in South Florida are Mets fans and some Yankee of course.

Id welcome A-Rod, but if it came down to picking Miggy or A-Rod then A-Rod could hit the curb and leave

Vertical Limit
11-02-2006, 08:31 PM
Three fish file for free agency,

Moe, Helms, and Herges. I think they should go after Helms and leave the rest.
THANK GOD. Don't even re-sign this guy! He is terrible! :tantrum:

RWhitney014
11-02-2006, 10:40 PM
THANK GOD. Don't even re-sign this guy! He is terrible! :tantrum:

Helms is going to be a tough sign because he wants to be a starter and I don't blame him. He had a fantastic year this year. If they find a way to bring him back, I'll be very happy. He's going to be tougher to replace than people realize.

As far as Herges goes, he won't be back, and though he was as bad as it gets in April and May (coincidentally, the same time his newborn son was battling whatever problem it was that almost killed him), his ERAs in June, July, and August were 2.00, 2.30, and 2.70 respectively. He exploded again in September to the tune of 8 something, but for a NRI that made the team out of spring training, it could have been much, much worse.

gillderais
11-11-2006, 06:42 PM
Owner Jeffrey Loria has provided his front office with the 2007 budget. Last year, the Marlins spent about $19.6 million (including deferred payments) on the major league roster. The 2007 figure is expected to remain in that area.


http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/baseball/marlins/sfl-spmarlins10nov10,0,223471.story?coll=sfla-sports-marlins

Alex44
11-28-2006, 12:27 PM
When does spring training start? God I miss baseball.

Anyway we should have a pretty competitive team this year, Im interested to see what we do to fill the hole in center, but we have enough pitching to keep us in every game. (assuming no-one gets traded)

Willis
Olsen
Johnson
Nolasko
Sanchez

Thats a heck of a rotation. I just hope we dont get off to a slow start again.

RWhitney014
11-28-2006, 01:28 PM
Our payroll is going to be around $30 million, not $19 as previously reported.

Mike13
11-28-2006, 01:34 PM
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061121&content_id=1744674&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla

Alex44
11-28-2006, 03:25 PM
Our payroll is going to be around $30 million, not $19 as previously reported.

What do you think we are going to do with that extra 11 mil?

RWhitney014
11-28-2006, 07:41 PM
What do you think we are going to do with that extra 11 mil?

Well, the two biggest gaping holes are CF and the pen, as we all know. The pen has been addressed somewhat with the acquisitions of Gregg, Owens, and Lindstrom. The first two, barring injury, should be in the pen all season. We'll see about Lindstrom. I still think they need to go after a vet or two. No indications that Borowski is or isn't coming back, but the fact that he didn't immediately land one of these overly huge contracts is encouraging. A Keith Foulke, Octavio Dotel, or Dustin Hermanson would fit the m.o. pretty well, with the last one being the most affordable. But they're going to allocate (hopefully) a couple million to the pen because that's the going rate. Should they go the trade route again, Jacobs for Pittsburgh's Mike Gonzalez would probably satisfy both teams, especially Florida.

CF is a total crapshoot because there are so many routes they could take. Rocco Baldelli should be the first, second, and third choice. I think Nolasco, Jacobs, and a mediocre pitching prospect, like a Petit, lands him, or if TB demands one of the big four, you offer Johnson but ask for Chad Orvella in return with Rocco. Or you can go the prospect route by looking at a Reggie Willits (LAA, older) or a blockbuster for Chris Young (ARI, younger) or you can try to sign a FA stopgap like Kenny Lofton, although with the prices right now, it's out of reach and should be. Anything more than $3 million for a Lofton or someone of his caliber is not worth it.

Then they have to replace Helms (Eduardo Perez? Phil Nevin?) and Jacobs if they trade him. Hammer would move to first, which opens up LF...host of choices there, running the gamut from Bonds to Jay Payton or a spec. I'd also like them to upgrade Treanor's spot, preferably with Mike Lieberthal or Guillermo Quiroz. All that could be done with $11 million unless Bonds is in the picture.

Alex44
11-28-2006, 09:22 PM
Well, the two biggest gaping holes are CF and the pen, as we all know. The pen has been addressed somewhat with the acquisitions of Gregg, Owens, and Lindstrom. The first two, barring injury, should be in the pen all season. We'll see about Lindstrom. I still think they need to go after a vet or two. No indications that Borowski is or isn't coming back, but the fact that he didn't immediately land one of these overly huge contracts is encouraging. A Keith Foulke, Octavio Dotel, or Dustin Hermanson would fit the m.o. pretty well, with the last one being the most affordable. But they're going to allocate (hopefully) a couple million to the pen because that's the going rate. Should they go the trade route again, Jacobs for Pittsburgh's Mike Gonzalez would probably satisfy both teams, especially Florida.

CF is a total crapshoot because there are so many routes they could take. Rocco Baldelli should be the first, second, and third choice. I think Nolasco, Jacobs, and a mediocre pitching prospect, like a Petit, lands him, or if TB demands one of the big four, you offer Johnson but ask for Chad Orvella in return with Rocco. Or you can go the prospect route by looking at a Reggie Willits (LAA, older) or a blockbuster for Chris Young (ARI, younger) or you can try to sign a FA stopgap like Kenny Lofton, although with the prices right now, it's out of reach and should be. Anything more than $3 million for a Lofton or someone of his caliber is not worth it.

Then they have to replace Helms (Eduardo Perez? Phil Nevin?) and Jacobs if they trade him. Hammer would move to first, which opens up LF...host of choices there, running the gamut from Bonds to Jay Payton or a spec. I'd also like them to upgrade Treanor's spot, preferably with Mike Lieberthal or Guillermo Quiroz. All that could be done with $11 million unless Bonds is in the picture.

I like and dislike the idea of Bonds

On the one hand he will put butts in the seats...and we need that. He would provide great protection for Miguel and is still feared when healthy.

On the other hand he isnt a great fielder anymore and probably cant get to some balls he should or cover a lot of ground. The constant steroid questions and salary also play in. Not to mention he could get injured at any time.

UCFinfan86
11-28-2006, 09:28 PM
I like and dislike the idea of Bonds

On the one hand he will put butts in the seats...and we need that. He would provide great protection for Miguel and is still feared when healthy.

On the other hand he isnt a great fielder anymore and probably cant get to some balls he should or cover a lot of ground. The constant steroid questions and salary also play in. Not to mention he could get injured at any time.

and be a real distraction to a young team

Alex44
11-28-2006, 09:31 PM
and be a real distraction to a young team

Yeah I think the bad is more than the good. But I wouldnt be made if he did end up a Marlin....It would be good for the future because we would have fans in the seats and generate some good money this year (with a small payroll and a good amount of ticket sales) then we could spend that money next year when he is gone.

I dont know, I just cant wait for baseball to start up again.

ChambersWI
11-28-2006, 09:50 PM
I doubt Bonds would sign with Florida, but if he did I doubt it would be as big of a distraction as some would think.

I think Bonds would find a bit more peace in South Florida. Sure the media would follow him here, but he wouldn't hae to be the guy here.

But again, I doubt it happens.

UCFinfan86
11-28-2006, 10:32 PM
Yeah I think the bad is more than the good. But I wouldnt be made if he did end up a Marlin....It would be good for the future because we would have fans in the seats and generate some good money this year (with a small payroll and a good amount of ticket sales) then we could spend that money next year when he is gone.

I dont know, I just cant wait for baseball to start up again.

I doubt the marlins would spend that money they earned, and i dont think it will generate that much money. You might fill the seats for 1 year but then after hes gone the seats are empty again. Someone like Arod would can sell them seats would be much better. I hate the idea of bonds going to Florida, i don't want to see him ruin them. As you can tell im a bonds hater

Alex44
11-28-2006, 10:36 PM
I doubt the marlins would spend that money they earned, and i dont think it will generate that much money. You might fill the seats for 1 year but then after hes gone the seats are empty again. Someone like Arod would can sell them seats would be much better. I hate the idea of bonds going to Florida, i don't want to see him ruin them. As you can tell im a bonds hater

I hate him to, but hey if it helped the team even for one year.....

He's my least favorite baseball player so its not like I want him here or anything.

Mike13
11-28-2006, 11:31 PM
Bonds would fill seats though.

UCFinfan86
11-29-2006, 12:04 AM
Bonds would fill seats though.

For 1 year, and is the negative attention he is going to bring to the team through the media and in the clubhouse worth it longterm??

Mike13
11-29-2006, 12:09 AM
For 1 year, and is the negative attention he is going to bring to the team through the media and in the clubhouse worth it longterm??

Thats a good point.

RWhitney014
11-29-2006, 01:38 AM
Bonds would pay for himself for obvious reasons.

Second, as far as him defensively, no, he's not going to win any more Gold Gloves (although many people forget he's one of the all-time leaders in total GGs), but the numbers say he's not as bad as his rep. He's not going to be able to handle 155 games out there, but he wouldn't be a disaster, either.

And negativity? Most teammates love the guy. He puts up numbers, pulls his weight, and minds his own business most of the time. He's not sweet and lovable, but you bet your bottom dollar these guys are sick of playing in front of a bunch of neon orange seats every night, and Bonds would solve that. Not to mention that the guy hasn't been around young, exuberant players in a long time. I'd wager that they rub off on him more than he rubs off on them.

All in all, I would say that the positives far outweigh the negatives. It's a one-year commitment no matter what, the guy is going to add attendance and make the Marlins an event (and we know how important that is in Event Town, USA), and the Marlins would become nationally relevant. Would there be boos? Yeah, sure, fine, they're pros, they can deal with it. After coming off surgery probably a little too early, the guy still hit 26 HR and drove in 77, and his OBP is still really high because of his rep. Perhaps most importantly, stick him behind Miggy and watch Cabrera go, because that's the best protection in the majors.

Alex44
11-29-2006, 01:41 AM
Bonds would pay for himself for obvious reasons.

Second, as far as him defensively, no, he's not going to win any more Gold Gloves (although many people forget he's one of the all-time leaders in total GGs), but the numbers say he's not as bad as his rep. He's not going to be able to handle 155 games out there, but he wouldn't be a disaster, either.

And negativity? Most teammates love the guy. He puts up numbers, pulls his weight, and minds his own business most of the time. He's not sweet and lovable, but you bet your bottom dollar these guys are sick of playing in front of a bunch of neon orange seats every night, and Bonds would solve that. Not to mention that the guy hasn't been around young, exuberant players in a long time. I'd wager that they rub off on him more than he rubs off on them.

All in all, I would say that the positives far outweigh the negatives. It's a one-year commitment no matter what, the guy is going to add attendance and make the Marlins an event (and we know how important that is in Event Town, USA), and the Marlins would become nationally relevant. Would there be boos? Yeah, sure, fine, they're pros, they can deal with it. After coming off surgery probably a little too early, the guy still hit 26 HR and drove in 77, and his OBP is still really high because of his rep. Perhaps most importantly, stick him behind Miggy and watch Cabrera go, because that's the best protection in the majors.

I agree with most of that. My one worry is that he gets injured and doesnt play very much at all.

It would be great for him to break the home run record in our ballpark, even though I never wanted him to break it...

Mike13
11-29-2006, 01:46 AM
I agree with most of that. My one worry is that he gets injured and doesnt play very much at all.

It would be great for him to break the home run record in our ballpark, even though I never wanted him to break it...

I'd figure that he'd break before he got the record.

Alex44
12-01-2006, 11:46 PM
I'd figure that he'd break before he got the record.

:lol:

I just want some sort of Marlins news...anything....sign someone....anyone...

RWhitney014
12-01-2006, 11:50 PM
:lol:

I just want some sort of Marlins news...anything....sign someone....anyone...

OK, they signed Mike Koplove to a minor-league deal along with about 15 other players. It's on the team website. Most of them are AAA filler, but Koplove's got some MLB success under his belt. Would be really nice if he could be effective again.

Alex44
12-02-2006, 03:16 AM
OK, they signed Mike Koplove to a minor-league deal along with about 15 other players. It's on the team website. Most of them are AAA filler, but Koplove's got some MLB success under his belt. Would be really nice if he could be effective again.

I need to check the site more often, I checked yesterday for the first time in what seemed like forever.

Anyway the guy I am most excited about for this year is *drumroll*

Scott Olsen. The kid can flat out dominate and is left handed, if he stays consistant he could easily be a 15 game winner this year and out of your #3 (Im assuming he will be the 3rd starter behind Dontrelle and Josh) thats amazing

The real wildcard this year is Dontrelle IMO will he be the 20 win Dontrelle or the Willis we saw last year (He still should have won more games but he got NO run support at all most nights)

We really need to get the centerfield situation sorted out as well.

RWhitney014
12-02-2006, 04:39 AM
If Dontrelle continues his career pattern, 2007 will be a huge year for him. Not to mention his defense behind will be improved at least somewhat with everyone having another year of experience.

BTW, Borowski not offered arby, so we can't recoup a first rounder if/when he signs elsewhere. Disappointing. Bonds wasn't either, so we wouldn't have to give ours up should we sign him.

Alex44
12-02-2006, 12:24 PM
If Dontrelle continues his career pattern, 2007 will be a huge year for him. Not to mention his defense behind will be improved at least somewhat with everyone having another year of experience.

BTW, Borowski not offered arby, so we can't recoup a first rounder if/when he signs elsewhere. Disappointing. Bonds wasn't either, so we wouldn't have to give ours up should we sign him.

I was reading the article on the team website



The risk the Marlins faced in offering Borowski salary arbitration is if Borowski decided to take it. Based on his experience and the fact he had a career-high 36 saves in 2006, Borowski could have earned more than $3 million.


Im guessing that the last line means he could have gotten around 3 mil in arbitration, and I dont know if anyone is gonna offer a 36 year old relief pitcher that really doesnt have 'dominating' stuff more than 3 mil. So we would just have been overpaying

Ray Finkle
12-02-2006, 12:48 PM
Just something to think about with Willis. He pitched in the WBC last year. So did Peavy, who also had a bad year. It could have had something to do with it because both guys weren't used to pitching so hard so early in the season. That could explain a lot. I think both pitchers will have rebound years.

Alex44
12-02-2006, 12:51 PM
Just something to think about with Willis. He pitched in the WBC last year. So did Peavy, who also had a bad year. It could have had something to do with it because both guys weren't used to pitching so hard so early in the season. That could explain a lot. I think both pitchers will have rebound years.

I really hope so.

Even at that Dontrelle should have won more games, there were a number of them he lost 1-0, 2-1 3-2 etc. His ERA was a little misleadingly high because there were a couple games he really got pounded.

Anyway Im really excited about this rotation you have 3 potential 15 game winners (Willis, Johnson and Olsen) a guy who is kind of an unknown but should get between 10-15 wins (Sanchez) and a guy Im not very high on but still would be a good #3 starter some places (Nolasco) who should get 12 wins and have at least an even record

RWhitney014
12-02-2006, 02:51 PM
I really hope so.

Even at that Dontrelle should have won more games, there were a number of them he lost 1-0, 2-1 3-2 etc. His ERA was a little misleadingly high because there were a couple games he really got pounded.

Anyway Im really excited about this rotation you have 3 potential 15 game winners (Willis, Johnson and Olsen) a guy who is kind of an unknown but should get between 10-15 wins (Sanchez) and a guy Im not very high on but still would be a good #3 starter some places (Nolasco) who should get 12 wins and have at least an even record

You do realize Anibal won 10 games in 13 starts or something like that this year, right?

As far as I'm concerned, Willis, Sanchez, and Olsen all have the stuff to win 20 games. I'm not saying they all will or that even one will, but I wouldn't be surprised if any of them reached it. If Carl Pavano can go 18-8 with a 3.00 ERA...

Vertical Limit
12-02-2006, 09:35 PM
Any updates on Logan Kensing?

PhinSoldia
12-02-2006, 09:37 PM
You do realize Anibal won 10 games in 13 starts or something like that this year, right?

As far as I'm concerned, Willis, Sanchez, and Olsen all have the stuff to win 20 games. I'm not saying they all will or that even one will, but I wouldn't be surprised if any of them reached it. If Carl Pavano can go 18-8 with a 3.00 ERA...

Willis Sanchez Olson...and Johnson...what happened to him...Carl will neer have that type of sucess even in a small market team....and to add my two cents in the bonds talk...it would be nice if he breaks the record in a marlin uniform....he will always be a giant but he broke the record in Marlin colors....BUT we have J Will and Hermeda and a host of other kids that would eb able to step up in the outfield....so besides breaking the record in our colors i'd pass on bonds

Alex44
12-02-2006, 09:38 PM
You do realize Anibal won 10 games in 13 starts or something like that this year, right?

As far as I'm concerned, Willis, Sanchez, and Olsen all have the stuff to win 20 games. I'm not saying they all will or that even one will, but I wouldn't be surprised if any of them reached it. If Carl Pavano can go 18-8 with a 3.00 ERA...

Yeah but I dont want to get my hopes to high for all of them. The top four all have potential for 15 to 20 wins but that is setting the bar very high and I would rather be pleasantly suprised. Some guys really regress after their first year and Im just hoping none of them do.

RWhitney014
12-02-2006, 09:56 PM
Willis Sanchez Olson...and Johnson...what happened to him...Carl will neer have that type of sucess even in a small market team....and to add my two cents in the bonds talk...it would be nice if he breaks the record in a marlin uniform....he will always be a giant but he broke the record in Marlin colors....BUT we have J Will and Hermeda and a host of other kids that would eb able to step up in the outfield....so besides breaking the record in our colors i'd pass on bonds

Pavano went 18-8 with a 3.00 ERA in 2004 for the Marlins.

The only way Bonds is here is if Jacobs is traded somewhere and Hammer moves to first, creating the need for a LF.

Alex44
12-02-2006, 11:49 PM
Do you seriously think we will make an offer to Gagne? IMO that would be great

RWhitney014
12-04-2006, 01:17 AM
We'll investigate all avenues. If Larry sees a chance to bring him in for an affordable price, he'll at least put a feeler out there.

Alex44
12-04-2006, 04:16 AM
I should have worded that better.

Do you think we will make a respectable and competitive offer in terms of what other teams would offer? Because if he can stay healthy that would be HUGE for us

Prime Time
12-04-2006, 02:14 PM
Marlins need a CF IMO. I miss JP :(

PhinSoldia
12-05-2006, 03:55 PM
Pavano went 18-8 with a 3.00 ERA in 2004 for the Marlins.

The only way Bonds is here is if Jacobs is traded somewhere and Hammer moves to first, creating the need for a LF.

i know that and this prompted his move to New York..but im saying he wont ever have that success AGAIN....

Alex44
12-07-2006, 01:07 AM
i know that and this prompted his move to New York..but im saying he wont ever have that success AGAIN....

Not in the AL and not injured of course not. Maybe in the NL in a pitchers ballpark with a good defense, if he was 100% healthy

Alex44
12-12-2006, 07:12 AM
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061209&content_id=1758653&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla

Lots of different little questions and answers.

Regarding our centerfield situation:


Actually, Crisp made $2.75 million in 2006, which is steep for what the Marlins are willing to pay at this time. He played just 105 games and had surgery on his left index finger, so there are health concerns. When he's in the lineup, he batted .264 and didn't live up to the expectations in Boston. So, I'm not sure he's viewed as the answer. Crisp is still part of the Red Sox's plans, so Florida is looking in another direction. At the Winter Meetings, the Rays' Rocco Baldelli's name was circulated around, but if there was any steam to make a move for him, it quickly fizzled out before the general managers left Orlando on Thursday. Keep an eye on a couple of other Tampa Bay products -- B.J. Upton and possibly Elijah Dukes -- as possible candidates.

RWhitney014
12-12-2006, 11:28 AM
B.J. Upton is the name I would watch. He fits our profile, and the Rays, the dumb Rays, have no place to play him. He's very young, club-controlled, profiles out to be a .290-20-70-.340-.480 hitter with 40+ SB at a strong SB/CS rate. He needs to learn the outfielder because he's an awful infielder, but his infield throwing problems won't be an issue in the outfield. A rumor is circulating that he could start with Nolasco and finish with two more, possibly with Seth McClung (yech) going the Marlins' way. Nolasco, Petit, and West, I'll do. I don't touch Sanchez, Olsen, Johnson, Tankersley, Volstad, and preferably not Pinto.

Alex44
12-12-2006, 05:08 PM
B.J. Upton is the name I would watch. He fits our profile, and the Rays, the dumb Rays, have no place to play him. He's very young, club-controlled, profiles out to be a .290-20-70-.340-.480 hitter with 40+ SB at a strong SB/CS rate. He needs to learn the outfielder because he's an awful infielder, but his infield throwing problems won't be an issue in the outfield. A rumor is circulating that he could start with Nolasco and finish with two more, possibly with Seth McClung (yech) going the Marlins' way. Nolasco, Petit, and West, I'll do. I don't touch Sanchez, Olsen, Johnson, Tankersley, Volstad, and preferably not Pinto.

Nolasco is one guy I dont mind parting with, especially to fill a bigger hole. Then the question becomes who takes his spot in the rotation?

Alex44
01-23-2007, 04:18 PM
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070120&content_id=1783111&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla

Mike13
01-23-2007, 05:41 PM
Thanks for the heads up Alex.

Alex44
01-25-2007, 09:31 AM
Season keeps getting closer and closer, Im pretty excited about this year.

Willis, Johnson, Olsen, Sanchez could all put up 15+ wins this year, Im not a big fan of Nolasco he strikes me as a guy that will pitch around .500 for the year. Though he did have a few stretches where he looked very good.

Hanley, Uggla, Cabrera should be potent, Hanley should be much improved and more consistant making him a huge threat.

The one thing I think we need to do better is play defense. We made a lot of 'great' plays last year, but there were to many easy ones we let go that cost us games.

Cant wait for the season to start....still a long way to go, but closer everyday.

UCFinfan86
01-25-2007, 12:17 PM
I am curious to see if the young hitters keep it up. I don't think Uggla will be able to get the numbers he had last year, but thats not saying he will have bad numbers, i just feel he was way in over his head last season. I hope Hermida and Willingham can bounce back because they are proably my 2 favorite marlins.

Alex44
01-25-2007, 10:24 PM
I am curious to see if the young hitters keep it up. I don't think Uggla will be able to get the numbers he had last year, but thats not saying he will have bad numbers, i just feel he was way in over his head last season. I hope Hermida and Willingham can bounce back because they are proably my 2 favorite marlins.

Well if Ugla hits #2 he has some good protection in Cabrera behind him, someone who will probably get on base in front of him in Hanley.

I expect Jacobs to step up big time, so if Uggla slides a little but still produces we should be okay. I'm not sure he was playing over his head, because there was never any question of whether he could hit, even as a minor leaguer. He just never played defense very well.

RWhitney014
01-26-2007, 01:52 AM
I'm firmly in the camp that says Uggla's possible regression means nothing for a few reasons.

1) Let's say his average drops 30 points, his HRs are cut in half, and his RBI drop by a third. His basic number line would still be .252-14-60. That would be a comparable season to that in 2006 of Craig Biggio, Jose Castillo, Marcus Giles, and Jose Vidro. And that's a huge, huge drop. I would expect the average to go down some, but the production numbers to be similar. His bat's not slowing down.

2) The Marlins' lineup can make it up. Hanley's numbers were great last year; they should be even better this year. Whoever's in CF has to outproduce Reggie Abercrombie's first half. Hermida did absolutely nothing this year, but he's going to have a much better year. Cabrera's not a 27-HR hitter. Jacobs should be better just by virtue of his ankle's healing. And on and on.

Alex44
01-26-2007, 12:45 PM
http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070123&content_id=1784574&vkey=news_fla&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla




Entering spring, the only regular position without a frontrunner is center field.
For more than a year, the front office has explored trade options to upgrade the position. For the right fit, the team is willing to part with some of its young pitching.
Over the past few months, the Marlins explored dealing with Tampa Bay for B.J. Upton. And the team has had talks with the Red Sox for David Murphy.
Now, it appears clear the team will head into Spring Training with what it already has.
Veteran Alex Sanchez, who signed a Minor League contract, will get a shot to win the position.
A speedster, Sanchez last played in the big leagues for Tampa Bay in 2005.
The 30-year-old is a left-handed hitter with 122 career stolen bases in 427 games.
Because of their financial limitations, the Marlins' front office feels Sanchez is a low-risk, high-reward potential pickup. Along with Sanchez, Alfredo Amezaga, Reggie Abercrombie, Eric Reed and Cody Ross will see action in center this spring.