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View Full Version : thing that bothers me about the UM fight



Mindwarp
10-19-2006, 10:15 PM
now im a noles fan as most people know, so I am not a "canes homer" but I do have to defend UM.

why did it get all that press and have all the kids called "thugs" It wasn't the only fight this week on the football feild.

I bet most of you didn't even relize that there was 2 IVY LEAGUE schools fighting. yup Dartmouth and Holy Cross hade a melee on the field also.. but oh wait, you say might say "Mindwarp, there is no video of it" to which I answer. Check youtube and you find anything http://youtube.com/watch?v=aikzTT-uPLg

there is even a article about it on espn.com but you have to dig for it.. yeah it wasn't headline news like the UM one. it really bothers me because the way EVERYONE has gone out of there way to call the kids "thugs"WTF for? for fighting? you know how much adrenaline they have running through there systems. They saw one of there one get cheap shoted.

I agree some of the players went beyond what they should have (reddick, merriweather) but in the heat of the fight, you do what you do.Most of these kids come from tough neigborhoods, were you need to fight to survice, I know I grew up in carol city along side some of them.

Why did UM get so much negative pub? yes I understand what it was but **** I saw it still LAST NIGHT on sportscenter. WEDNESDAY NIGHT. I never even heard about these Ivy league schools throwing down. To me it would have been more "news" to know these "rich boy school" accutally have some fights also.

bleh.. I guess the whole "thug" thing got to me. To me it seams like they want to play a race thing without getting introuble.. its like they want to say, its cause they are black. were are the Thugs in baseball melee's?

I know we are past this but I just wanted to vent cause I came across that IVY LEAGUE store now.

Majpain
10-19-2006, 10:35 PM
Looks very weak compared to the UM fight.

Mindwarp
10-19-2006, 10:41 PM
cause its a fans camera, in the stands.. not tv cameras on the field.


"After winning in overtime, Holy Cross players celebrated atop the Dartmouth "D" painted on the field, and fights broke out when the teams lined up for postgame handshakes. Some players were thrown to the ground and kicked."



from the espn article.

d-day
10-19-2006, 10:50 PM
now im a noles fan as most people know, so I am not a "canes homer" but I do have to defend UM.

why did it get all that press and have all the kids called "thugs" It wasn't the only fight this week on the football feild.

I bet most of you didn't even relize that there was 2 IVY LEAGUE schools fighting. yup Dartmouth and Holy Cross hade a melee on the field also.. but oh wait, you say might say "Mindwarp, there is no video of it" to which I answer. Check youtube and you find anything http://youtube.com/watch?v=aikzTT-uPLg

there is even a article about it on espn.com but you have to dig for it.. yeah it wasn't headline news like the UM one. it really bothers me because the way EVERYONE has gone out of there way to call the kids "thugs"WTF for? for fighting? you know how much adrenaline they have running through there systems. They saw one of there one get cheap shoted.

I agree some of the players went beyond what they should have (reddick, merriweather) but in the heat of the fight, you do what you do.Most of these kids come from tough neigborhoods, were you need to fight to survice, I know I grew up in carol city along side some of them.

Why did UM get so much negative pub? yes I understand what it was but **** I saw it still LAST NIGHT on sportscenter. WEDNESDAY NIGHT. I never even heard about these Ivy league schools throwing down. To me it would have been more "news" to know these "rich boy school" accutally have some fights also.

bleh.. I guess the whole "thug" thing got to me. To me it seams like they want to play a race thing without getting introuble.. its like they want to say, its cause they are black. were are the Thugs in baseball melee's?

I know we are past this but I just wanted to vent cause I came across that IVY LEAGUE store now.

just another excuse to hate on the u - was a time when there wasn't a lot of opportunity to do so - just a bunch of haters getting their shots in while they can - pretty weak if you ask me - pretty sure if you looked hard enough, you could find something/someone to dis on or pick up apart with any other team in the country - personally i've never kicked another team or situation when they were down, but then i'm not a dick...

305TillIDie
10-19-2006, 11:18 PM
everyone points the finger at Miami..calling them "thugs" or whatever..Miami saw one of their players slammed to the ground..what are you going to do? not protect your player? thats bs..you have to defend your teammate, not matter what happens..

I agree with ya MW..the "thug" word is used only in football, basketball..you never hear the word thug in hockey or baseball where they fight...

Pennington's Rocket Arm
10-19-2006, 11:55 PM
because ESPN is going to sell the bigger story.

DonShula84
10-20-2006, 12:00 AM
UM gets more grief because this is the 3rd fight in 10 months. UM has a history that you are ignoring. Holy Cross, I'm sorry, doesnt have a reputation for this kind of behavior like UM does. It goes back to the 80s and for the most part it has been an image that has been embraced. Like was pointed out before Catholics vs Convicts in the 80s came from somewhere so this repuation has followed UM for decades. They arent going to be given the benefit of the doubt or any slack when we've seen this behavior from that school for decades. Whether that's fair or not I dont know, but it is what it is

Coral Reefer
10-20-2006, 12:25 AM
bleh.. I guess the whole "thug" thing got to me. To me it seams like they want to play a race thing without getting introuble.. its like they want to say, its cause they are black. were are the Thugs in baseball melee's?

.

Someone ALWAYS has to play the friggin race card.
Sick of it.

I am a UM fan but I can admit that UM built this bad reputation.
It's a reputation that they have grown away from but it's life that once your labled as something that label will never be completely gone. It's not fair but the reason this is garnering so much press is because the U is an easy target.

If there was a brawl between FAMU and Bethune Cookman which are all black schools you'd see just as much press about that as the Ivy league brawl, NONE.

Neither of those scenarios generates attention but a huge school with a history of drama does generate attention. That's the reason for the travesty of this story in the media, plus last time I checked there were white guys in the melee for both sides as well. Ridiculous view.

Coral Reefer
10-20-2006, 12:27 AM
everyone points the finger at Miami..calling them "thugs" or whatever..Miami saw one of their players slammed to the ground..what are you going to do? not protect your player? thats bs..you have to defend your teammate, not matter what happens..

I agree with ya MW..the "thug" word is used only in football, basketball..you never hear the word thug in hockey or baseball where they fight...

I watch hockey and have been a hockey fan for a long time.
There are certain players that have been considered "thugs" by opposing players and fans going all the way back as far as I can remember.

Baseball players? You can't be serious, they are too damn wimpy to get the thug label.

305TillIDie
10-20-2006, 12:32 AM
I watch hockey and have been a hockey fan for a long time.
There are certain players that have been considered "thugs" by opposing players and fans going all the way back as far as I can remember.

Baseball players? You can't be serious, they are too damn wimpy to get the thug label.A baseball player throws a chair and hits a fan..he was NEVER called a thug...

but Ron Artest, college football players, NFL and NBA players..ALL get called thugs....

I dont understand that...

Coral Reefer
10-20-2006, 12:32 AM
:lol:

Just watched the video, this isn't even worth discussing.
That "brawl" was a joke and nothing like the UM FIU brawl.

It looked like they were all lined up at midfield throwing brain teasers at each other and insulting each others GPA's. Didn't see much fighting going on there.

Jaydog57
10-20-2006, 12:33 AM
UM gets more grief because this is the 3rd fight in 10 months. UM has a history that you are ignoring. Holy Cross, I'm sorry, doesnt have a reputation for this kind of behavior like UM does. It goes back to the 80s and for the most part it has been an image that has been embraced. Like was pointed out before Catholics vs Convicts in the 80s came from somewhere so this repuation has followed UM for decades. They arent going to be given the benefit of the doubt or any slack when we've seen this behavior from that school for decades. Whether that's fair or not I dont know, but it is what it isWe'll always get grief, just like Catholics will always get branded with destroying entire civilizations with their religious rites of passage:rolleyes: That's ok, we're still here, and we'll still be the team to hate, because we'll be the team everybody wishes they could be, we just get put down for lack of ballz:evil:

DonShula84
10-20-2006, 01:01 AM
We'll always get grief, just like Catholics will always get branded with destroying entire civilizations with their religious rites of passage:rolleyes: That's ok, we're still here, and we'll still be the team to hate, because we'll be the team everybody wishes they could be, we just get put down for lack of ballz:evil:

:shakeno: Plenty of teams have no interest in being the U, get over yourselves already. What your religious bashing has to do with this, beyond just being stupid, I dont know.

MikeO
10-20-2006, 01:29 AM
UM gets more grief because this is the 3rd fight in 10 months. UM has a history that you are ignoring. Holy Cross, I'm sorry, doesnt have a reputation for this kind of behavior like UM does. It goes back to the 80s and for the most part it has been an image that has been embraced. Like was pointed out before Catholics vs Convicts in the 80s came from somewhere so this repuation has followed UM for decades. They arent going to be given the benefit of the doubt or any slack when we've seen this behavior from that school for decades. Whether that's fair or not I dont know, but it is what it is

:yeahthat: Miami football has made their bed, now they gotta lay in it. The school has done little to nothing to change this image. Now they suffer.

MikeO
10-20-2006, 01:33 AM
A baseball player throws a chair and hits a fan..he was NEVER called a thug...

but Ron Artest, college football players, NFL and NBA players..ALL get called thugs....

I dont understand that...

because you have 1 baseball incident like that in how many years??

In the NBA you have a player choking a coach, Artest and other Pacers running into the stands beating up fans, you have Rodman kicking a camera guy, you have Antonio Davis running into the stand....the list could go on forever!!!

In college football you have FIU-Miami. Nuff said. Need more proof......VT football!!

And in the NFL look at the off the field problems those guys get in trouble with. Chris Henry. Randy McMichael. Jeese the entire Cincy Bengals. Michael Vick (Ron Mexico)...etc, these guys are "thugs" in their actions!!

MikeO
10-20-2006, 01:35 AM
everyone points the finger at Miami..calling them "thugs" or whatever..Miami saw one of their players slammed to the ground..what are you going to do? not protect your player? thats bs..you have to defend your teammate, not matter what happens..

...

there is defending your teammate. Then there is swinging helmets, a bench clearing brawl, and stomping your spikes on human flesh trying to do serious harm to another human being!!!

There is a big difference!!!

305TillIDie
10-20-2006, 01:41 AM
because you have 1 baseball incident like that in how many years??

In the NBA you have a player choking a coach, Artest and other Pacers running into the stands beating up fans, you have Rodman kicking a camera guy, you have Antonio Davis running into the stand....the list could go on forever!!!

In college football you have FIU-Miami. Nuff said. Need more proof......VT football!!

And in the NFL look at the off the field problems those guys get in trouble with. Chris Henry. Randy McMichael. Jeese the entire Cincy Bengals. Michael Vick (Ron Mexico)...etc, these guys are "thugs" in their actions!!that one accident doesnt make that guy a thug?

ive heard everything now.....

MikeO
10-20-2006, 01:43 AM
that one accident doesnt make that guy a thug?

.....

sure it does!! But the whole sport has 1 incident in like........god knows how many years. So it isn't blown up or made a big deal.

These other sports have them on a weekly/monthly basis now a days

305TillIDie
10-20-2006, 01:44 AM
sure it does!! But the whole sport has 1 incident in like........god knows how many years.

These other sports have them on a weekly/monthly basis now a daysbaseball have fights..they are not called thugs but they fight...?

MikeO
10-20-2006, 01:47 AM
baseball have fights..they are not called thugs but they fight...?

in baseball fights you don't see guys swinging bats at each others heads or stomping on each others arms with their spikes!!!:shakeno:

You also don't see the police coming out on the field to try and break it up.

There is a "fight" then there is "gang warfare". What FIU-Miami did wasn't a simple old school "FIGHT".........it was felony's!!! I mean people trying to do seroius harm to other human beings (on both sides). That goes beyond a "fight"

305TillIDie
10-20-2006, 01:48 AM
in baseball fights you don't see guys swinging bats at each others heads or stomping on each others arms with their spikes!!!:shakeno:

You also don't see the police coming out on the field to try and break it up.

There is a "fight" then there is "gang warfare". What FIU-Miami did wasn't a simple old school "FIGHT".........it was felony's!!! I mean people trying to do seroius harm to other human beings (on both sides). That goes beyond a "fight"baseball fights, guys are swinging for each other head and tackling everyone and they are NOT called thugs..

period.

MikeO
10-20-2006, 01:51 AM
baseball fights, guys are swinging for each other head and tackling everyone and they are NOT called thugs..

period.

they aren't swinging HELMETS!! Swing a fist is one thing. Swing a crutch or your helmet is another!! :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno:

They also don't try to stomp each other with the spikes on their shoes!!

305TillIDie
10-20-2006, 01:55 AM
they aren't swinging HELMETS!! Swing a fist is one thing. Swing a crutch or your helmet is another!! :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno:

They also don't try to stomp each other with the spikes on their shoes!!for 1..1 person swinged a helmet..your story is wrong

yes, hes wrong for doing that

but i dont understand..why call football, basketball players thugs and not baseball players?

that is my whole point...dont give me that "Baseball players arent swinging bats" a fight is a fight..no matter what sport it is...

icephinfan
10-20-2006, 02:07 AM
they aren't swinging HELMETS!! Swing a fist is one thing. Swing a crutch or your helmet is another!! :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno:

They also don't try to stomp each other with the spikes on their shoes!!

I'm pretty sure in some baseball brawls there have been some players to kick and try to stomp on guys when there down.

I know when a pitcher hits a batter, the batter will run out and I have seen where the batter throws his helmet at the pitcher.

I can't remember his name, but one pitcher landed a solid kick to a batter who charged the mound.

305TillIDie
10-20-2006, 02:11 AM
I'm pretty sure in some baseball brawls there have been some players to kick and try to stomp on guys when there down.

I know when a pitcher hits a batter, the batter will run out and I have seen where the batter throws his helmet at the pitcher.

I can't remember his name, but one pitcher landed a solid kick to a batter who charged the mound.exactly..that is my whole point..if someone calls a sport thugs..call everyone else thugs...fights happen in sports..no one has to single out a race or a player or sport...

DonShula84
10-20-2006, 02:17 AM
It isnt like all the people in baseball fights were white so they're getting a pass because of race, so what's the point exactly?

John Biello
10-20-2006, 02:22 AM
didnt juan marichal hit a player in the head with a bat. and lets not forget marty mcsorely hit with his stick to the head of donald brashear. fighting is accepted, its a part of old time hockey. this kind of stuff happens in all sports. hell, cmon we just had haynesworth step on gurode. these guys are hitting each other every play, and they are 18 19 20 year old kids, some of them went to far, but the u is paying for so called reupation, at least in the media

DonShula84
10-20-2006, 02:52 AM
didnt juan marichal hit a player in the head with a bat. and lets not forget marty mcsorely hit with his stick to the head of donald brashear. fighting is accepted, its a part of old time hockey. this kind of stuff happens in all sports. hell, cmon we just had haynesworth step on gurode. these guys are hitting each other every play, and they are 18 19 20 year old kids, some of them went to far, but the u is paying for so called reupation, at least in the media

And those guys were raked over the coals by the press and the fans and punished pretty severely. They werent given a pass, so what is the argument here?

John Biello
10-20-2006, 03:15 AM
there is no arguement, why does it have to be an argument its just an observation...

Motion
10-20-2006, 08:51 AM
Wow, why can't we just let this subject die................for everyone's sake.

B-lo
10-20-2006, 09:43 AM
there is no arguement, why does it have to be an argument its just an observation...OFF POINT, but Dury is going to carry the cup again this year for the BUFFALO SABRES!!!!!

Coral Reefer
10-20-2006, 10:48 AM
It isnt like all the people in baseball fights were white so they're getting a pass because of race, so what's the point exactly?


That's a good observation as well.
I don't recall only black baseball players being singled out as "thugs" while hispanic and white baseball players are given passes.

Mike O hit the nail on the head with his comments on the frequency of these baseball fights and the degree of violence in them. Neither compare with what you see in other sports.

The real point here is that certain people will and take any opportunity that can be twisted into a racial discrimination issue and run with it, while completely ignoring the degree of actions in a situation that caused the scrutiny.

Agent51
10-20-2006, 02:43 PM
now im a noles fan as most people know, so I am not a "canes homer" but I do have to defend UM.

why did it get all that press and have all the kids called "thugs" It wasn't the only fight this week on the football feild.

I bet most of you didn't even relize that there was 2 IVY LEAGUE schools fighting. yup Dartmouth and Holy Cross hade a melee on the field also.. but oh wait, you say might say "Mindwarp, there is no video of it" to which I answer. Check youtube and you find anything http://youtube.com/watch?v=aikzTT-uPLg

there is even a article about it on espn.com but you have to dig for it.. yeah it wasn't headline news like the UM one. it really bothers me because the way EVERYONE has gone out of there way to call the kids "thugs"WTF for? for fighting? you know how much adrenaline they have running through there systems. They saw one of there one get cheap shoted.

I agree some of the players went beyond what they should have (reddick, merriweather) but in the heat of the fight, you do what you do.Most of these kids come from tough neigborhoods, were you need to fight to survice, I know I grew up in carol city along side some of them.

Why did UM get so much negative pub? yes I understand what it was but **** I saw it still LAST NIGHT on sportscenter. WEDNESDAY NIGHT. I never even heard about these Ivy league schools throwing down. To me it would have been more "news" to know these "rich boy school" accutally have some fights also.

bleh.. I guess the whole "thug" thing got to me. To me it seams like they want to play a race thing without getting introuble.. its like they want to say, its cause they are black. were are the Thugs in baseball melee's?

I know we are past this but I just wanted to vent cause I came across that IVY LEAGUE store now.

To start, I knew about the Dartmouth/Holy Cross fight (I have a friend who plays for Dartmouth), but to be fair, it was nowhere NEAR the FIU/UM fight. Even the ESPN article states it lasted "less than 3 minutes". The FIU/UM fight wasn't a sports fight, it was a street fight. It had all the makings of a "gang war".

Now, I will say that I am not a fan of the Florida schools (check my sig for my team :wink:), but I also don'thave a problem with them. I was always indefferent towards them. However, Miami asks for it. If this were a one-time thing, then yes, all of this negative pres smight not be so justified, but the fact is, it's a regular occurance for "The U". Most of the time THEY start it (see; stomping on the midfield logo before a game). The majority of the player take PRIDE in their "Thug U" personas, regardless of what they may say to the media. Just look at their track record. First off, stomping on the midfield logo was OBVIOUSLY disrespectful to their opponents, and if anyone had done that in Miami, you KNOW the 'Canes would have run out there and fought, yet they act like they are all innocent when Louisville comes out and a fight starts, they act like they were just attacked for no reason :rolleyes2

Like you said, the helmet smash and the gang stomping were above and beyond a normal fight, but to take it beyond that, it's the THIRD brawl Miami has been in this season (and lets not forget the "tunnel brawl" last season), and that's just ON the field. Look at the players off the field. Both current and former. Arrested for anything (and everything) from drugs to suspicion of MURDER. How about the "violent" rap song about rape and all of that stuff? Just look at the way players from UM act, both in college and then in the NFL. The former "U" players in the NFL carry on that "thug" persona. And they ENJOY it, take PRIDE in it (just look at the announcer that was saying all that stuff about them having a "reputation to uphold" and suggesting they "take it into the parking lot after the game"). Now I know players from other school carry the "thug" persona into the NFL, but Miami definately produces the majority of them. They dress in huge clothes and tons of "bling" (or whatever the new word for it is) and have the gold teeth and all of that stuff. It's all fine outside of the league, but when you are a professional athlete you are held to a certain standard, and that standard isn't being "thugged out" when a suit would be appropriate, or losing the "I'm going to Disneyland" spot because you are suspected of murdering TWO people, etc etc. The biggest thing is, none of them show remorse for ANY of it. Not the rap song, not the fights, not the arrests, it's almost like a badge of honor for them.

My point is, I can't feel sorry for Maimi, or even think they are being treated unfairly, because they seem to ASK for it, like they thrive on it, like they have a reputation they WANT to uphold. To me personally, I think Miami is COMPLETELY deserving of all the bashing they are getting. They are held to a higher standard because they are under the national spotlight. Dartmouth/Holy Cross will certainly not get the same attention a football powerhouse like Miami. Although I'm sure if helmets were used as weapons or 8 players surrounded one downed player and stomped him repeatedly, it WOULD have gotten more attention. I think one of the most ridiculous aspects of the sitation is Miami crying that they are getting unfair treatment by the media, yet they don't acknowledge the fact that, out of all of the players who took it above and beyond a sports fight, only ONE player got more than a one-game suspension. FIU, a small, no-name school, kicked TWO players OFF THE TEAM and suspended the other 16 indefinately, and I didn't see a single FIU player do anything more than throw some kicks or punches. They certainly didn't use helmets as weapons or gang-stomp a downed player. Yet Miami did, and the most severe punishment ha sben ONE player being suspended indefinately and the rest got ONE game, and a meaningless game that they aren't needed in at that :rolleyes2

cheyannefan
10-20-2006, 08:28 PM
Neither fight should be condoned. Unfortunately for UM, ESPN's cameras caught it all. They have this reputation for being unclassy, egotistical players and when they are involved in a bench clearing brawl everyone is going to point fingers. While the IVY League fight wasn't quite as bad, it was still wrong. I understand that emotinons run high when in a competive contest, but it i a disgrace when football turns into a fight. Dartmouth, Holy Cross, UM, and FIU should be ashamed. Also, I felt that one game suspensins for most players was quite laughable. So they miss one game, who care? At least about 3 players from both FIU and UM should never be allowed to play again. If you go to the levels of fighting that they did, then your career should be over. If they really cared about football then why fight, on the field, during the game?

bjchit
10-21-2006, 01:53 AM
exactly..that is my whole point..if someone calls a sport thugs..call everyone else thugs...fights happen in sports..no one has to single out a race or a player or sport... I think because most of those guys do it once, and they hardly ever have actual fights, mostly just pushing and idle threats.

bjchit
10-21-2006, 02:23 AM
For those of you saying that no team is going to sit and watch their teammates get thrown around like rag dolls, my sophmore year, we were playing Danville in a scrimmage game, and they clothslined our qb after he had ran out of bounds. This was also after our coach told us that they called him and asked if they could stop and eat dinner first on the way there. And no body did anything about it. That's proably part of the reason we were 0-8 that year.:nono:

Kev83
10-21-2006, 02:28 AM
This really plays into more than just the fight...
it's a history of behavior, the representation of the program in the recent past, the swagger mentality, and how many canes fans (not all) condone and support this mentality.
As Herbstreit put it, many fans also support the behavior of the fights and feel this is a sense of the team's identity that signals toughness, etc.

I hope the Canes are able to bounce back. I've always disliked the team, but I pull for any tradition-filled team to keep its head above water and compete. That said, the program deserves its setbacks and maybe something (God, I hope so) can be gained from this.

As this relates to the Dartmouth fight, notice the booing from the stands, a mentality that saw the actions of poor taste. Combine that with laughs from the stands and the actions appear silly to the fans. This far outweighs the few initial claps in the video. My point is that this is all a culture issue. Sure, even an Ivy League school can have a fight at its football game, but it was at a different level and as a TEAM, it disseminated and players listened to coaches.

Just my thoughts on a near-dead issue.