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View Full Version : Anyone else think we need to draft a qb first round?



CHAMBERS8484
10-21-2006, 09:03 PM
Dan Marino drafted in 84 in the 1st round.

Feeley- 2nd round pick
Culpepper-2nd round pick
Harrington- conditional 6th rounder.

Do I need to go on? Point is there have been about 7 qbs to start for us since dan left, but we haven't picked up a qb in the 1st round since dan left. What do we have to lose?? Of course there is always the exception (tim couch, akili smith, ryan leaf) but there is more often than not talent. What do we have to lose?

MikeO
10-21-2006, 09:06 PM
Yes. I know a lot of people won't agree.

But enough is enough. This franchsie isnt' winning anything until we get a young home-grown QB of our own

PhinsRock
10-21-2006, 09:06 PM
Brady; 6th round. NO we do NOT need to draft a QB in first round this year. We need OL, OL, and more OL. Then a LB, then a DB and then another OL.

elite14eva
10-21-2006, 09:10 PM
draft one in the later rounds.

adamprez2003
10-21-2006, 09:12 PM
our best shot was last year and then we won six in a row and refused to trade up for Cutler. I dont think we're going to finish high enough to draft Brohm or Quinn

brandon1986
10-21-2006, 09:16 PM
no

we need to draft some OL

and some defensive players a linebacker/ some corners would be nice

fishypete
10-21-2006, 09:17 PM
Actually I do disagree....I believe we have more than enough talent at QB...the problem is the lack of talent elsewhere on the offense. Harrington was a first round, 3rd pick in the 2002 draft....is there any quarterback coming out in the draft more worthy or higher rated....in other words...a sure thing? NO....even Manning...hasn't won a superbowl after all these years.
Let me remind everyone that Brady wasn't highly picked, 6th round...but yet he has three Superbowl wins. The Bucs won with a QB that wasn't highly rated...you have to have talent on team, to surround the QB.

CHAMBERS8484
10-21-2006, 09:20 PM
Brady; 6th round. NO we do NOT need to draft a QB in first round this year. We need OL, OL, and more OL. Then a LB, then a DB and then another OL.

Brady is the exception, not the rule. Look at the other qbs.
Matt Leinart, Vince Young both look solid.

Peyton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb, Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, JP Losman, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman,

Those are all first round picks, not to mention daunte and joey are former first rounders. My point is that the first round QBs are usually starting in this league. There are exceptions like matt hasselbeck, favre, and delhomme, but most of the time the first rounders are the ones who succeed that's why they are first rounders.

adamprez2003
10-21-2006, 09:21 PM
Actually I do disagree....I believe we have more than enough talent at QB...the problem is the lack of talent elsewhere on the offense. Harrington was a first round, 3rd pick in the 2002 draft....is there any quarterback coming out in the draft more worthy or higher rated....in other words...a sure thing? NO....even Manning...hasn't won a superbowl after all these years.
Let me remind everyone that Brady wasn't highly picked, 6th round...but yet he has three Superbowl wins. The Bucs won with a QB that wasn't highly rated...you have to have talent on team, to surround the QB.

I agree. If we were going to groom a QB last year was the time to draft one. That draft was deep in QBs, this one is week after Brohm and Quinn. Unless we go winless the rest of the season which aint gonna happen, we wont be in position to draft either so lets stay with the winner of the Harrington/ Culpepper competition and work on improving our oline, and defense and maybe a playmaking receiver

yankeehillbilly
10-21-2006, 09:25 PM
If we draft a QB in the first round and put him behind this offensive line we will only be creating another Joey Harrington.
It starts in the trenches. Get a few REAL offensive linemen instead of these actors we have now, and an average QB looks good.
Then draft your young QB and let him learn the game without having to fear for his life on every play.

DolfanDaveInATX
10-21-2006, 09:25 PM
our best shot was last year and then we won six in a row and refused to trade up for Cutler. I dont think we're going to finish high enough to draft Brohm or Quinn

We didn't have enough picks to trade up for Cutler.

Our 2007 first round pick will be a trench monster, preferably OT Joe Thomas of Wisconsin.

fishypete
10-21-2006, 09:28 PM
Brady is the exception, not the rule. Look at the other qbs.
Matt Leinart, Vince Young both look solid.

Peyton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb, Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, JP Losman, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman,

Those are all first round picks, not to mention daunte and joey are former first rounders. My point is that the first round QBs are usually starting in this league. There are exceptions like matt hasselbeck, favre, and delhomme, but most of the time the first rounders are the ones who succeed that's why they are first rounders.

Except for Roethlisberger....NONE of those first rounders have won anything....and truth be told...Roethlisberger didn't do much to win the Superbowl....well he did make a tackle.

adamprez2003
10-21-2006, 09:36 PM
We didn't have enough picks to trade up for Cutler.

Our 2007 first round pick will be a trench monster, preferably OT Joe Thomas of Wisconsin.

We had a 2nd until we got Daunte and we will win ebnough games this year where Thomas will be off the board. I think we go DE

fin fan1928
10-21-2006, 10:13 PM
6th brady, Gradkoski 6th. draft later. culpepper and harrington are better than a ryan leaf. Dont you agree. we need o line and more o line!

GRT8
10-21-2006, 10:13 PM
Saban put all his money in Cullpeper. I don't know the ramifications of cutting him.... cap wise. We will linger in 500'ville at the pace we are going.

If we drafted high enough we should! it sure would be a bold move that would put us in the rebuilding stage. IMO that is what we need vs. trying to piece this team together.

GRT8
10-21-2006, 10:15 PM
we need alot of everything, but yes..........a younger line. Brady in the 6th is once in a franchise find. Don't count on that.

thejetssuck
10-21-2006, 10:43 PM
If we draft a QB in the first round and put him behind this offensive line we will only be creating another Joey Harrington.
It starts in the trenches. Get a few REAL offensive linemen instead of these actors we have now, and an average QB looks good.
Then draft your young QB and let him learn the game without having to fear for his life on every play.

I kind of agree with you. I think we should draft a top tier left tackle, there will be some VERY good ones available this year. Also, Cpep will be healthy by then. I REALLY wanna see if LJ shelton can continue to kick serious *** as a RG on our team, I know he only played one game and it was against the jets, but the dude just DOMINATED!! Vernon Carey is turning out to be a pleasant surprise and Rex Hadnot seems to finally be settling into the C position.

I know alot of you think Cpep is done, but he is one of those QB's that if you do give enough time to throw, he will rip you apart probably more than any other qb in the league ( just like Kurt Warner would do during his MVP seasons with the Rams when he had all day to throw the ball). I definitely think Harrington is our guy for now, and I am hoping he plays well. Either well enough to just completely kick butt and be our unquestioned starting qb for next year ( which is a pretty unlikely scenario, but would be a VERY welcome surprise). Or to play just well enough to add to his trade value and maybe get like a 3rd rounder for him ( I think this scenario more plausible).

I also can almost guarantee the fins are gonna win this weekend because I placed a bet that Green Bay was gonna win outright, and the one thing I have learned about the dolphins this year is that they LOVE SCREWING ME OUT OF MONEY, just like they have the 4 times I have bet on them this year. But at this point, i think just seeing the fins win 1 game will be worth the 35.00 that I bet. And if they lose, at least I'll have solace knowing I won 71.75. So either way, I win.:D

jlfin
10-21-2006, 10:47 PM
Brady; 6th round. NO we do NOT need to draft a QB in first round this year. We need OL, OL, and more OL. Then a LB, then a DB and then another OL.

Brady was pure luck. Odds of hitting on a QB after the 1st rd are very low. It is not often that a team is in a position to draft a top college prospect. When u get that chance you would be foolish not to waste it.
The best franchises for the most part drafted their franchise QB's.
Football 101- you build a team around a QB and a solid defense.
What if JH is not the answer? What if DC never regains his old form? Are u willing to start next season counting on DC? If he struggles early,then what do u do? The season is shot once again.
Right now there are no guarantees when it comes to DC so if we are picking in the top 5 we better hope a good QB is there.
The most accomplished QB's in the league were 1st rounders-Manning, McNabb, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Brees, Rivers, Pennington, Leftwich, Vick. Carr, Eli Manning and Alex Smith have potential to be very good.
Kelly, Elway, Marino and Aikman were drafted to be franchise QB's.
There is no O-lineman (no matter how good) that can ever impact your team as much as a franchise QB.

jlfin
10-21-2006, 10:50 PM
6th brady, Gradkoski 6th. draft later. culpepper and harrington are better than a ryan leaf. Dont you agree. we need o line and more o line!

Cherry picking. The odds are MUCH greater that a 1st rd talent will succeed.
Relying on a mid round pick is a huge gamble.

DonShula84
10-21-2006, 10:54 PM
Cherry picking. The odds are MUCH greater that a 1st rd talent will succeed.
Relying on a mid round pick is a huge gamble.

We do have two QBs on our roster who were taken pretty high in the first round.

Crzynick25
10-21-2006, 11:00 PM
Brady is the exception, not the rule. Look at the other qbs.
Matt Leinart, Vince Young both look solid.

Peyton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb, Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, JP Losman, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman,

Those are all first round picks, not to mention daunte and joey are former first rounders. My point is that the first round QBs are usually starting in this league. There are exceptions like matt hasselbeck, favre, and delhomme, but most of the time the first rounders are the ones who succeed that's why they are first rounders.


But for every one of these guys there is a Ryan Leaf, Cade Mcnown, Akili Smith, Rich Mirer, Kyle Boller, Tim Couch, Jim Druckenmiller. This list goes on and on, you need to have a team around your QB especially a Line, no rookie QB is going to coming in and be great the only exception to that rule was Big Ben but Pittsburg had a great team around him.

QrtBck13
10-21-2006, 11:09 PM
Brady; 6th round. NO we do NOT need to draft a QB in first round this year. We need OL, OL, and more OL. Then a LB, then a DB and then another OL.
my friend name me five starting QB's that have not been drafted in the first round? 5 out of 32 if thier is that many thier prob is but still a 6th rounder to be the next montan its rare!!!

jlfin
10-21-2006, 11:21 PM
But for every one of these guys there is a Ryan Leaf, Cade Mcnown, Akili Smith, Rich Mirer, Kyle Boller, Tim Couch, Jim Druckenmiller. This list goes on and on, you need to have a team around your QB especially a Line, no rookie QB is going to coming in and be great the only exception to that rule was Big Ben but Pittsburg had a great team around him.

Why don't you mention all the no names drafted in rds 3-7 who never even made it out of training camp? You couldn't fit them on a single post.
When you build a team you have to play the odds and the odds of hitting on a franchise QB are much higher when they are drafted early in the 1st rd.

jlfin
10-21-2006, 11:24 PM
We do have two QBs on our roster who were taken pretty high in the first round.

Once again, its a matter of playing the odds. I can give you a list of 1st rd picks in any position that never made it.
Many people keep bringing up Thomas from Wisconsin. Ever hear of a guy named Robert Gallery? How about Mike Williams?

jlfin
10-21-2006, 11:28 PM
But for every one of these guys there is a Ryan Leaf, Cade Mcnown, Akili Smith, Rich Mirer, Kyle Boller, Tim Couch, Jim Druckenmiller. This list goes on and on, you need to have a team around your QB especially a Line, no rookie QB is going to coming in and be great the only exception to that rule was Big Ben but Pittsburg had a great team around him.

Jim Druckenmiller was drafted by the 49'ers and they were pretty good. He just stunk.

Pocoloco
10-21-2006, 11:32 PM
only if Quinn is there. that guy is as much a no-brainer as you can find

Crzynick25
10-21-2006, 11:36 PM
Why don't you mention all the no names drafted in rds 3-7 who never even made it out of training camp? You couldn't fit them on a single post.
When you build a team you have to play the odds and the odds of hitting on a franchise QB are much higher when they are drafted early in the 1st rd.


because the post i was responding to was first round QB's not rould 3-7 players you never made it out of camp, and im saying that for ever starting 1st round QB there is a 1st round QB that didnt make it in this league so just because you take a QB in the first round doesnt mean they will automatcally be great

DonShula84
10-22-2006, 12:33 AM
Once again, its a matter of playing the odds. I can give you a list of 1st rd picks in any position that never made it.
Many people keep bringing up Thomas from Wisconsin. Ever hear of a guy named Robert Gallery? How about Mike Williams?

I wouldnt write either of those players off yet, though a lot of people argued at the time that Mike Williams had bust written all over him

PhinFan0202
10-22-2006, 03:03 AM
only if Quinn is there. that guy is as much a no-brainer as you can find

He's clutch when it comes to winning close games.

Stitches
10-22-2006, 03:10 AM
my friend name me five starting QB's that have not been drafted in the first round? 5 out of 32 if thier is that many thier prob is but still a 6th rounder to be the next montan its rare!!!
Starters from this season who weren't first round picks:

Oak: Aaron brooks and Andrew Walter
Tampa: Bruce Gradkowski and Chris Simms
GB: Brett Favre
NE: Tom Brady
Arizona: Kurt Warner (at the beginning of the season)
KC: Trent Green and Damon Huard
Car: Jake Delhomme
Seattle: Matt Hasselback
Minn: Brad Johnson
Cleveland: Charlie Frye
Pitt: Charlie Batch
Washington: Mark Brunell
Detroit: Jon Kitna
St Louis: Marc Bulger
Denver: Jake Plummer

Even throwing out Batch, that's 14 teams with starters whom were taken outside of the first round.

Let's even see how many teams have used starters this season that they didn't even draft:

Miami: Joey H and Daunte Culpepper
Ravens: Steve Mcnair
Broncos: Jake Plummer
Chiefs: Trent Green and Damon Huard
Steelers: Charlie Batch
Chargers: Phillip Rivers
Titans: Kerry Collins
Cardinals: Kurt Warner
Panthers: Jake Delhomme
Cowboys: Drew Bledsoe
Packers: Brett Favre
Vikings: Brad Johnson(not 1st stint on team)
Saints: Drew Brees
Giants: Eli Manning
Seahawks: Matt Hasselback
Redskins: Mark Brunell
Rams: Marc Bulger

That's 19 starters on 17 teams that didn't draft them.

Let's even look at super bowl QB's over the past 6 seasons or so:

XL: Pit- Ben Roethlisberger(1st round) vs Sea-Matt hasselback(not team that drafted him, not a 1st round pick)
XXXIX: NE- Tom Brady(6th round pick) vs Phi- Donovan Mcnabb(1st round)
XXXVIII: NE- Tom Brady(6th round) vs. Car- Jake Delhomme(not on team that drafted him, undrafted for that matter)
XXXVII: Oak- Rich Gannon(4th rd pick, no on team that drafted him) vs. TB- Brad Johnson(9th rd pick, not on team that drafted him)
XXXVI: NE- Tom Brady(6th rd) vs STL- Kurt Warner(not on team that drafted him, undrafted)
XXXV: BAL- Trent Dilfer(1st rd, not on team that drafted him) vs. NYG- Kerry Collins(1st rd pick, not on team that drafted him)
XXXIV: STL- Kurt Warner(undrafted) vs. TEN- Steve Mcnair(1st rd pick)

That's 9 different QB's that either weren't 1st round picks, or weren't playing for the team that drafted them. 7 super bowls, 11 times a QB started that wasn't a 1st round pick or wasn't with the team that drafted him(only once was the winning Qb a 1st rd pick and for the team that drafted them). And Roethlisberger and Brady are the only QBs up there that won the Super Bowl for the team that drafted them, and again Roethlisberger is the only one of those two who is a first round pick.

I think all of this shows that we don't NEED to draft a Qb with our first pick THIS upcoming draft. We have just as good of a chance with someone elses first round pick as our QB.

Our first rd pick should be used elsewhere. Whether that is OL, Defense, or BPA(*cough Calvin Johnson cough*).

Now I don't want to see another thread about people being sick of us not using a 1st round pick on a QB, or I will just repost this into every single one of those threads.

EDIT: And if you want to mention John Elway, remember he wasn't even drafted by the Broncos. Same thing goes for Steve Young not being drafted by the 49ers, and Joe Montana being a 3rd round pick. Brett favre wasn't a 1st rounder or drafted by the Packers. So everyone can just stuff it now.

PhinFan0202
10-22-2006, 03:19 AM
The thing is everyone always comes up with an excuse of why a QB drafted in the first round won't be good. Alex Smith, Vince Young, and Matt Leinart were all considered "System QBs" but they all look to have a bright future ahead of them. I'm not saying that we have to draft a QB in the first because it isn't the most pressing need at all but it's not the end of the world if it does happen.

Saint Greg
10-22-2006, 03:21 AM
Brady is the exception, not the rule. Look at the other qbs.
Matt Leinart, Vince Young both look solid.

Peyton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb, Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, JP Losman, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman,

Those are all first round picks, not to mention daunte and joey are former first rounders. My point is that the first round QBs are usually starting in this league. There are exceptions like matt hasselbeck, favre, and delhomme, but most of the time the first rounders are the ones who succeed that's why they are first rounders.


Drew Brees 2nd
Brett Favre 2nd
Jake Plummer 2nd
Charlie Frye 3rd
Aaron Brooks 4th
Chris Simms 4th
Mark Brunell 5th
Matt Hasselbeck 6th
Marc Bulger 6th
Tom Brady 6th
Bruce Gradkowski 6th
Trent Green 8th
Brad Johnson 9th
Jake Delhomme undrafted
Kurt Warner undrafted
Jon Kitna undrafted

NewEra8
10-22-2006, 03:26 AM
Brady is the exception, not the rule. Look at the other qbs.
Matt Leinart, Vince Young both look solid.

Peyton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb, Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, David Carr, Phillip Rivers, Ben Roethlisberger, Eli Manning, JP Losman, Carson Palmer, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman,

Those are all first round picks, not to mention daunte and joey are former first rounders. My point is that the first round QBs are usually starting in this league. There are exceptions like matt hasselbeck, favre, and delhomme, but most of the time the first rounders are the ones who succeed that's why they are first rounders.

Now can I get a list of first round QBs who didn't succeed?

Saint Greg
10-22-2006, 03:33 AM
Now can I get a list of first round QBs who didn't succeed?

Jeff George, Andre Ware, Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, David Klingler, Tommy Maddox, Rick Mirer, Heath Shuler, Jim Druckenmiller, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller

Stitches
10-22-2006, 03:43 AM
Now can I get a list of first round QBs who didn't succeed?
Since '93(1st rd QBs):
Vince Young- Too Early
Matt Leinhart- Too Early
Jay Cutler- Too Early
Alex Smith-Early, awful last year, promising this
Aaron Rodgers- Never seen the field
Jason Campbell- Never seen the field
Eli Manning- Look very good
Philip Rivers- Looks very good
Ben Roethlisberger- very Good
JP Losman- Jury's still out, but looks average
Carson Palmer- Superstar
Byron Leftwich- Very good(IMO)
Kyle Boller- Eh, looked good one year, but average at best
David Carr- Looks solid
Joey Harrington- Average at best in Detroit, on new team
Patrick Ramsey- Bust as of now, on new team
Michael Vick- Superstar, but overrated and not much of a thrower
Chad Pennington- Solid, would be better if not for injury's
Tim Couch- Bust
Donovan McNabb- Superstar
Akili Smith- BUST
Daunte Culpepper- Star, on new team
Cade McNown- BUST
Peyton Manning- Superstar
Ryan Leaf- BUST!!!
Jim Druckenmiller- Bust
Steve Mcnair- Was very good, on new team now
Kerry Collins- Solid at best IMO, on many different teams
Heath Shuler- BUSt
Trent Dilfer- Average/solid at best, on new teams, got his ring though
Drew Bledsoe- Solid, on new teams
Rick Mirer- BUST(IMO), played multiple teams

Not counting from the past 2 drafts, that is 13 of 26 QBs, who could be looked at as average or worse. So 1st round doesn't mean squat for sure except for cap trouble. It's a coin flip just like every other position in the draft.

EDIT: I forgot Grossman, but I would say he is still solid at best, because I'm not sold on him until he plays a whole season. Injury bug!!

adamprez2003
10-22-2006, 10:17 AM
we need alot of everything, but yes..........a younger line. Brady in the 6th is once in a franchise find. Don't count on that.

how about gradkowski in the fifth.

PhinFan0202
10-22-2006, 12:46 PM
how about gradkowski in the fifth.

's What had Gradkowski done besides for winning last week? Let's see what he does for the rest of the year before proclaiming him a steal.