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dfin54
10-22-2006, 05:20 PM
Can't depend on Culpepper coming back to full strength. I know
this team needs more. Quinn we have to get or we get a ransom and trade down! no ransom then draft Quinnn. This is all relative to picking #1 or2
It is a process

SpencerFS
10-22-2006, 05:24 PM
quinn is way overated. If you watch his games the only thing i like about him is he is very good under pressure. I really dont think we need a qb in the first round though

TheJetsBlow
10-22-2006, 05:41 PM
quinn is way overated. If you watch his games the only thing i like about him is he is very good under pressure. I really dont think we need a qb in the first round though


We need Quinn or Joe Thomas. Period. No questions asked. We have a lot of holes- I understnad that- but we need one of these two guys, and nothing will covince me to think different.

Pocoloco
10-22-2006, 05:44 PM
If Quinn ends up being as good as I think he's gonna be, then he's a big upgrade to any QB we have on our roster. But a lot of teams agree on that, so we should have trade down possibilities.

silverloop13
10-22-2006, 05:48 PM
If Brian Brohm leaves early I think hed be good QB to build around.

Motion
10-22-2006, 05:52 PM
I was all for Joe Thomas before today, after that pathetic performance by our "so-called" receivers I'm leaning another way. It doesn't matter who we have throwing the ball if our playmakers continue to drop it.

jlfin
10-22-2006, 06:03 PM
quinn is way overated. If you watch his games the only thing i like about him is he is very good under pressure. I really dont think we need a qb in the first round though

This team needs EVERYTHING, including a QB.
When you are building a team you start with the centerpiece, and that is a QB.
When Dallas hit rock bottom and JJ came in they drafted Aikman. When the Colts were stinking it up they drafted Manning. Ditto for Cincy with Palmer, the Texans with Carr and now the Cardianls with Leinart. That is the traditional way to rebuild and I am a traditionalist.
The Pats were fortunate with Brady,but that is the exception, not the rule.
How can you say this team does not need a QB? Are you suggesting that DC is guranteed to come back to his form of 2-3 yrs ago? That is extremetly optimistic and a HUGE gamble.
I actually feel bad for Huizenga because this garbage team is nearly at the cap limit, but they are playing like an expansion team.

adamprez2003
10-22-2006, 06:04 PM
Brian Brohm or Calvin Johnson. The only two players that are cant miss

jlfin
10-22-2006, 06:05 PM
We need Quinn or Joe Thomas. Period. No questions asked. We have a lot of holes- I understnad that- but we need one of these two guys, and nothing will covince me to think different.

If we have a top 3 pick I think drafting an O-lineman would be a waste. They certainly help your team, but not relative to what they will cost you cap wise.
I believe really high picks should be spent on QB's or impact front 7 guys. That is why I was not in favor of drafting Ronnie Brown.

PhinFan0202
10-22-2006, 06:22 PM
We need everything on this team. I don't know what to pick because everyone on this team is garbage. I would probably go O-line than QB.

Stitches
10-22-2006, 07:03 PM
This team needs EVERYTHING, including a QB.
When you are building a team you start with the centerpiece, and that is a QB.
When Dallas hit rock bottom and JJ came in they drafted Aikman. When the Colts were stinking it up they drafted Manning. Ditto for Cincy with Palmer, the Texans with Carr and now the Cardianls with Leinart. That is the traditional way to rebuild and I am a traditionalist.
The Pats were fortunate with Brady,but that is the exception, not the rule.
How can you say this team does not need a QB? Are you suggesting that DC is guranteed to come back to his form of 2-3 yrs ago? That is extremetly optimistic and a HUGE gamble.
I actually feel bad for Huizenga because this garbage team is nearly at the cap limit, but they are playing like an expansion team.

We don't need to draft a QB next draft, especially not in the first round.

Starters from this season who weren't first round picks:

Oak: Aaron brooks and Andrew Walter
Tampa: Bruce Gradkowski and Chris Simms
GB: Brett Favre
NE: Tom Brady
Arizona: Kurt Warner (at the beginning of the season)
KC: Trent Green and Damon Huard
Car: Jake Delhomme
Seattle: Matt Hasselback
Minn: Brad Johnson
Cleveland: Charlie Frye
Pitt: Charlie Batch
Washington: Mark Brunell
Detroit: Jon Kitna
St Louis: Marc Bulger
Denver: Jake Plummer

Even throwing out Batch, that's 14 teams with starters whom were taken outside of the first round.

Let's even see how many teams have used starters this season that they didn't even draft:

Miami: Joey H and Daunte Culpepper
Ravens: Steve Mcnair
Broncos: Jake Plummer
Chiefs: Trent Green and Damon Huard
Steelers: Charlie Batch
Chargers: Phillip Rivers
Titans: Kerry Collins
Cardinals: Kurt Warner
Panthers: Jake Delhomme
Cowboys: Drew Bledsoe
Packers: Brett Favre
Vikings: Brad Johnson(not 1st stint on team)
Saints: Drew Brees
Giants: Eli Manning
Seahawks: Matt Hasselback
Redskins: Mark Brunell
Rams: Marc Bulger

That's 19 starters on 17 teams that didn't draft them.

Let's even look at super bowl QB's over the past 6 seasons or so:

XL: Pit- Ben Roethlisberger(1st round) vs Sea-Matt hasselback(not team that drafted him, not a 1st round pick)
XXXIX: NE- Tom Brady(6th round pick) vs Phi- Donovan Mcnabb(1st round)
XXXVIII: NE- Tom Brady(6th round) vs. Car- Jake Delhomme(not on team that drafted him, undrafted for that matter)
XXXVII: Oak- Rich Gannon(4th rd pick, no on team that drafted him) vs. TB- Brad Johnson(9th rd pick, not on team that drafted him)
XXXVI: NE- Tom Brady(6th rd) vs STL- Kurt Warner(not on team that drafted him, undrafted)
XXXV: BAL- Trent Dilfer(1st rd, not on team that drafted him) vs. NYG- Kerry Collins(1st rd pick, not on team that drafted him)
XXXIV: STL- Kurt Warner(undrafted) vs. TEN- Steve Mcnair(1st rd pick)

That's 9 different QB's that either weren't 1st round picks, or weren't playing for the team that drafted them. 7 super bowls, 11 times a QB started that wasn't a 1st round pick or wasn't with the team that drafted him(only once was the winning Qb a 1st rd pick and for the team that drafted them). And Roethlisberger and Brady are the only QBs up there that won the Super Bowl for the team that drafted them, and again Roethlisberger is the only one of those two who is a first round pick.

I think all of this shows that we don't NEED to draft a Qb with our first pick THIS upcoming draft. We have just as good of a chance with someone elses first round pick as our QB.

Our first rd pick should be used elsewhere. Whether that is OL, Defense, or BPA(*cough Calvin Johnson cough*).

Now I don't want to see another thread about people being sick of us not using a 1st round pick on a QB, or I will just repost this into every single one of those threads.

EDIT: And if you want to mention John Elway, remember he wasn't even drafted by the Broncos. Same thing goes for Steve Young not being drafted by the 49ers, and Joe Montana being a 3rd round pick. Brett favre wasn't a 1st rounder or drafted by the Packers. So everyone can just stuff it now.

First round picks don't gurantee success by any stretch


Since '93(1st rd QBs):
Vince Young- Too Early
Matt Leinhart- Too Early
Jay Cutler- Too Early
Alex Smith-Early, awful last year, promising this
Aaron Rodgers- Never seen the field
Jason Campbell- Never seen the field
Eli Manning- Look very good
Philip Rivers- Looks very good
Ben Roethlisberger- very Good
JP Losman- Jury's still out, but looks average
Carson Palmer- Superstar
Byron Leftwich- Very good(IMO)
Kyle Boller- Eh, looked good one year, but average at best
David Carr- Looks solid
Joey Harrington- Average at best in Detroit, on new team
Patrick Ramsey- Bust as of now, on new team
Michael Vick- Superstar, but overrated and not much of a thrower
Chad Pennington- Solid, would be better if not for injury's
Tim Couch- Bust
Donovan McNabb- Superstar
Akili Smith- BUST
Daunte Culpepper- Star, on new team
Cade McNown- BUST
Peyton Manning- Superstar
Ryan Leaf- BUST!!!
Jim Druckenmiller- Bust
Steve Mcnair- Was very good, on new team now
Kerry Collins- Solid at best IMO, on many different teams
Heath Shuler- BUSt
Trent Dilfer- Average/solid at best, on new teams, got his ring though
Drew Bledsoe- Solid, on new teams
Rick Mirer- BUST(IMO), played multiple teams

Not counting from the past 2 drafts, that is 13 of 26 QBs, who could be looked at as average or worse. So 1st round doesn't mean squat for sure except for cap trouble. It's a coin flip just like every other position in the draft.

EDIT: I forgot Grossman, but I would say he is still solid at best, because I'm not sold on him until he plays a whole season. Injury bug!!

Shula Come Back!
10-23-2006, 07:07 PM
I dont know why Miami is so scared in drafting a top prospect QB...the last time we tried that was Marino....wow....he was a bust!!!! We should at least give it a shot if we have the chance....then at least we can all shut up if it fails and go back to trading for QBs that other teams dont want!!!

Rocky Raccoon
10-23-2006, 07:16 PM
if we draft a QB it will be in 2008. We invested too much into Culpepper to give up on him so quickly. Not to mention he's only played 4 games and with a severe injuries (both knee and shoulder). Give the keys to Daunte next year and let's see if he is still a solid QB, or if he's just a shell of his former self. Again people, patience....patience.

Shula Come Back!
10-23-2006, 07:23 PM
if we draft a QB it will be in 2008. We invested too much into Culpepper to give up on him so quickly. Not to mention he's only played 4 games and with a severe injuries (both knee and shoulder). Give the keys to Daunte next year and let's see if he is still a solid QB, or if he's just a shell of his former self. Again people, patience....patience.
This is probably what will happen...I just hope that Cpep doesn't have like a mediocre season and then the Dolphins are like,... OK, we don't need a QB......he needs to show signs of excellence or what's the point???

Pennington's Rocket Arm
10-23-2006, 07:35 PM
We don't need to draft a QB next draft, especially not in the first round.

Starters from this season who weren't first round picks:

Oak: Aaron brooks and Andrew Walter
Tampa: Bruce Gradkowski and Chris Simms
GB: Brett Favre
NE: Tom Brady
Arizona: Kurt Warner (at the beginning of the season)
KC: Trent Green and Damon Huard
Car: Jake Delhomme
Seattle: Matt Hasselback
Minn: Brad Johnson
Cleveland: Charlie Frye
Pitt: Charlie Batch
Washington: Mark Brunell
Detroit: Jon Kitna
St Louis: Marc Bulger
Denver: Jake Plummer

Even throwing out Batch, that's 14 teams with starters whom were taken outside of the first round.

Let's even see how many teams have used starters this season that they didn't even draft:

Miami: Joey H and Daunte Culpepper
Ravens: Steve Mcnair
Broncos: Jake Plummer
Chiefs: Trent Green and Damon Huard
Steelers: Charlie Batch
Chargers: Phillip Rivers
Titans: Kerry Collins
Cardinals: Kurt Warner
Panthers: Jake Delhomme
Cowboys: Drew Bledsoe
Packers: Brett Favre
Vikings: Brad Johnson(not 1st stint on team)
Saints: Drew Brees
Giants: Eli Manning
Seahawks: Matt Hasselback
Redskins: Mark Brunell
Rams: Marc Bulger

That's 19 starters on 17 teams that didn't draft them.

Let's even look at super bowl QB's over the past 6 seasons or so:

XL: Pit- Ben Roethlisberger(1st round) vs Sea-Matt hasselback(not team that drafted him, not a 1st round pick)
XXXIX: NE- Tom Brady(6th round pick) vs Phi- Donovan Mcnabb(1st round)
XXXVIII: NE- Tom Brady(6th round) vs. Car- Jake Delhomme(not on team that drafted him, undrafted for that matter)
XXXVII: Oak- Rich Gannon(4th rd pick, no on team that drafted him) vs. TB- Brad Johnson(9th rd pick, not on team that drafted him)
XXXVI: NE- Tom Brady(6th rd) vs STL- Kurt Warner(not on team that drafted him, undrafted)
XXXV: BAL- Trent Dilfer(1st rd, not on team that drafted him) vs. NYG- Kerry Collins(1st rd pick, not on team that drafted him)
XXXIV: STL- Kurt Warner(undrafted) vs. TEN- Steve Mcnair(1st rd pick)

That's 9 different QB's that either weren't 1st round picks, or weren't playing for the team that drafted them. 7 super bowls, 11 times a QB started that wasn't a 1st round pick or wasn't with the team that drafted him(only once was the winning Qb a 1st rd pick and for the team that drafted them). And Roethlisberger and Brady are the only QBs up there that won the Super Bowl for the team that drafted them, and again Roethlisberger is the only one of those two who is a first round pick.

I think all of this shows that we don't NEED to draft a Qb with our first pick THIS upcoming draft. We have just as good of a chance with someone elses first round pick as our QB.

Our first rd pick should be used elsewhere. Whether that is OL, Defense, or BPA(*cough Calvin Johnson cough*).

Now I don't want to see another thread about people being sick of us not using a 1st round pick on a QB, or I will just repost this into every single one of those threads.

EDIT: And if you want to mention John Elway, remember he wasn't even drafted by the Broncos. Same thing goes for Steve Young not being drafted by the 49ers, and Joe Montana being a 3rd round pick. Brett favre wasn't a 1st rounder or drafted by the Packers. So everyone can just stuff it now.

First round picks don't gurantee success by any stretch


Since '93(1st rd QBs):
Vince Young- Too Early
Matt Leinhart- Too Early
Jay Cutler- Too Early
Alex Smith-Early, awful last year, promising this
Aaron Rodgers- Never seen the field
Jason Campbell- Never seen the field
Eli Manning- Look very good
Philip Rivers- Looks very good
Ben Roethlisberger- very Good
JP Losman- Jury's still out, but looks average
Carson Palmer- Superstar
Byron Leftwich- Very good(IMO)
Kyle Boller- Eh, looked good one year, but average at best
David Carr- Looks solid
Joey Harrington- Average at best in Detroit, on new team
Patrick Ramsey- Bust as of now, on new team
Michael Vick- Superstar, but overrated and not much of a thrower
Chad Pennington- Solid, would be better if not for injury's
Tim Couch- Bust
Donovan McNabb- Superstar
Akili Smith- BUST
Daunte Culpepper- Star, on new team
Cade McNown- BUST
Peyton Manning- Superstar
Ryan Leaf- BUST!!!
Jim Druckenmiller- Bust
Steve Mcnair- Was very good, on new team now
Kerry Collins- Solid at best IMO, on many different teams
Heath Shuler- BUSt
Trent Dilfer- Average/solid at best, on new teams, got his ring though
Drew Bledsoe- Solid, on new teams
Rick Mirer- BUST(IMO), played multiple teams

Not counting from the past 2 drafts, that is 13 of 26 QBs, who could be looked at as average or worse. So 1st round doesn't mean squat for sure except for cap trouble. It's a coin flip just like every other position in the draft.

EDIT: I forgot Grossman, but I would say he is still solid at best, because I'm not sold on him until he plays a whole season. Injury bug!!
the problem with this logic is that you can use it for EVERY position. except the percentage of starting first round QB's in the NFL is far greater than any other position.

Stitches
10-24-2006, 08:10 AM
the problem with this logic is that you can use it for EVERY position. except the percentage of starting first round QB's in the NFL is far greater than any other position.

Ok, but a super bowl is what we are looking for as defining a successful team. And Roethlisberger is the only recent 1st round QB to lead his origonal team to a super bowl win. We have a better chance(historically) to win a Super Bowl with Culpepper than we do with any rookie QB we draft in the first round.

PhinsRock
10-24-2006, 11:52 AM
if we draft a QB it will be in 2008. We invested too much into Culpepper to give up on him so quickly. Not to mention he's only played 4 games and with a severe injuries (both knee and shoulder). Give the keys to Daunte next year and let's see if he is still a solid QB, or if he's just a shell of his former self. Again people, patience....patience.

You nailed it!

PhinFan0202
10-24-2006, 05:54 PM
if we draft a QB it will be in 2008. We invested too much into Culpepper to give up on him so quickly. Not to mention he's only played 4 games and with a severe injuries (both knee and shoulder). Give the keys to Daunte next year and let's see if he is still a solid QB, or if he's just a shell of his former self. Again people, patience....patience.

I agree with what your saying about having invested so much in him but if he can't play you just have to cut your losses. We invested a 2nd round pick for A.J. Feely and he was gone the next season. Being able to run and having Randy Moss were the glue that held his game together and none of those two factors are there anymore. If we have the choice between a franchise left tackle and a franchise QB it's going to be a hard descision to make. Personally i would go with the LT.

Gareth1213
10-25-2006, 12:15 PM
if we draft a QB it will be in 2008. We invested too much into Culpepper to give up on him so quickly. Not to mention he's only played 4 games and with a severe injuries (both knee and shoulder). Give the keys to Daunte next year and let's see if he is still a solid QB, or if he's just a shell of his former self. Again people, patience....patience.

Problem with this is if he stinks as bad as the first 4 games this season, but the rest of the team improves we will have a) lost another season b) missed out on an opportunity to draft a possible franchise QB due to a lower pick and different QB's coming out in 2008.

We've got to play DC late this season and evaluate him then for next season and act accordingly. Yes the knee might still not be 100% but the decision making needs to be - can't run forever

Rocky Raccoon
10-25-2006, 12:46 PM
Problem with this is if he stinks as bad as the first 4 games this season, but the rest of the team improves we will have a) lost another season b) missed out on an opportunity to draft a possible franchise QB due to a lower pick and different QB's coming out in 2008.

We've got to play DC late this season and evaluate him then for next season and act accordingly. Yes the knee might still not be 100% but the decision making needs to be - can't run forever

I agree. I don't want to rush him back if he's not ready (look where that got us this year) but if his rehab goes well and he's ready I'd like to see him get a few more starts at the end of the season.

adamprez2003
10-25-2006, 02:06 PM
if we dont draft brohm with our first, kevin kolb should be available for our 2nd or 3rd. he's probably a two year project but he's got all the physical traits you want in a qb. unfortunately he plays for houston so the level of comp he's faced will make it difficult to know if he can hang in the nfl