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View Full Version : Did Kenny Roger cheat?



Amars
10-23-2006, 12:13 PM
DETROIT – The point isn't whether Kenny Rogers was cheating in the first inning of Sunday's Game 2 of the World Series.

The point isn't whether it is believable that a pitcher wouldn't notice a huge clump of dirt (if it was that) on his pitching hand. The point isn't even about Kenny Rogers, whose left hand was brilliant both clean and dirty. He's a secondary story here.

The point is that faced with suspicion, controversy and potential scandal, Major League Baseball once again did what it always seems to do – covered its eyes, fell back on its history of silence and hoped it would all go away, unwilling to find out what, if anything, was going on.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AjjtY3Y5L_yRC5y6kS.YwlURvLYF?slug=dw-rogers102206&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

phinman1
10-23-2006, 12:28 PM
Of couse he was cheating. Credit LaRussa with handling this with class, probably out of respect for Leyland.

finswin56
10-23-2006, 12:39 PM
He may have been cheating, but I don't think it's anything like throwing a "spitter" or the like. Pine tar is sticky. He was probably just looking for a better grip on the ball since it was freezing last night in Detroit. Cheating? Yes, technically, but nothing huge IMO.

Rocky Raccoon
10-23-2006, 12:44 PM
He may have been cheating, but I don't think it's anything like throwing a "spitter" or the like. Pine tar is sticky. He was probably just looking for a better grip on the ball since it was freezing last night in Detroit. Cheating? Yes, technically, but nothing huge IMO.

:yeahthat:

GreenMonster
10-23-2006, 02:32 PM
He may have been cheating, but I don't think it's anything like throwing a "spitter" or the like. Pine tar is sticky. He was probably just looking for a better grip on the ball since it was freezing last night in Detroit. Cheating? Yes, technically, but nothing huge IMO.

That is a lame excuse.. You can't doctor the ball in anyway.. Being cold is part of October baseball. Players have been able to grip the ball in much colder weather for the last 100+ years, he is just as accountable now as a 95% day in the summer.. Everyone knows you can't use pintar on your hands or the ball when pitching.

finswin56
10-23-2006, 02:44 PM
That is a lame excuse.. You can't doctor the ball in anyway.. Being cold is part of October baseball. Players have been able to grip the ball in much colder weather for the last 100+ years, he is just as accountable now as a 95% day in the summer.. Everyone knows you can't use pintar on your hands or the ball when pitching.I'm not saying it's A OK.
Let me put it this way. Larussa probably could have had Rogers ejected if he pushed hard enough. Some will say he didn't push it for respect to Leland. BS, it's the World Series. Larussa didn't push it because he probably had similar usage on his team.

From what I understand, it's not all that rare for a pitcher to use a little pine tar on cold nights. Rogers screwed up by keeping it visible. If you've touched pine tar before, you know it doesn't just wash off very easily. I bring this up, because I think it VERY likely that someone on St. Louis could have been doing the same thing. I think this is one of baseball's, not so dirty little secrets.

NJFINSFAN1
10-23-2006, 03:08 PM
I'm not saying it's A OK.
Let me put it this way. Larussa probably could have had Rogers ejected if he pushed hard enough. Some will say he didn't push it for respect to Leland. BS, it's the World Series. Larussa didn't push it because he probably had similar usage on his team.

From what I understand, it's not all that rare for a pitcher to use a little pine tar on cold nights. Rogers screwed up by keeping it visible. If you've touched pine tar before, you know it doesn't just wash off very easily. I bring this up, because I think it VERY likely that someone on St. Louis could have been doing the same thing. I think this is one of baseball's, not so dirty little secrets.

Did you see the story about Planco (Spelled wrong) uses some kind of oil on his body to be protected from the cold? If I'm Rogers, I say, hey, he touched the ball, it came from him!

djfresh47
10-23-2006, 03:09 PM
Espn showed a close-up of his hand and he had the same "clump of dirt," vs the Yankees and A's on the same part of his hand. Pitchers use it all the time but when it is that blatant La Russa has to get him ejected. I don't care if La Russa has that much respect for Leyland he's gotta respect his team more and get him ejected. The roaster was still dealing after he cleaned his hand but La Russa blew it. He would've got a 10 game suspension and would have been out of the world series!

finswin56
10-23-2006, 03:12 PM
Did you see the story about Planco (Spelled wrong) uses some kind of oil on his body to be protected from the cold? If I'm Rogers, I say, hey, he touched the ball, it came from him!:lol: But, then Kenny would have to answer the questions about why he was touching Planco's body.

WarriorWelker83
10-23-2006, 03:27 PM
That definetly wasn't dirt, but i dont think whatever was on his hand was really the reason he was so dominant in that game. I just wish i knew what it was and how it got there.

BAMAPHIN 22
10-23-2006, 03:42 PM
I'm not saying it's A OK.
Let me put it this way. Larussa probably could have had Rogers ejected if he pushed hard enough. Some will say he didn't push it for respect to Leland. BS, it's the World Series. Larussa didn't push it because he probably had similar usage on his team.

From what I understand, it's not all that rare for a pitcher to use a little pine tar on cold nights. Rogers screwed up by keeping it visible. If you've touched pine tar before, you know it doesn't just wash off very easily. I bring this up, because I think it VERY likely that someone on St. Louis could have been doing the same thing. I think this is one of baseball's, not so dirty little secrets.

:rawk:I thought that you brought up some interesting points...If they find out Rogers was cheating... Then this will really damage MLB's image. The point is that faced with suspicion, controversy and potential scandal, Major League Baseball once again did what it always seems to do – covered its eyes, fell back on its history of silence and hoped it would all go away, unwilling to find out what, if anything, was going on.

DonShula84
10-23-2006, 05:10 PM
He obviously didnt need it there whatever it was because he washed it off after the first inning and then continued to dominate

Samphin
10-23-2006, 05:23 PM
He obviously didnt need it there whatever it was because he washed it off after the first inning and then continued to dominate


Not true, it wasn't pinetar, but it was a substance that is used a lot in the music industry. People who play the harp use this gum on their fingers to help ppluck the strings and whatnot. The stuff is so tacky that even after you wash it off thoroughly, it remains sticky for up to 24 hours. So, even though it was visibly gone, he still had use of the gum.

Furthemrore, the cold weather excuse doesn't fly because pictures have surfaced today of Mr. Rogers using this stuff against Oakland in July...

He cheated and got caught, I just wish everyone would admit to it. The Cardinals probably cheat as well, and that is why LaRussa didn't make a huge fuss about it, because it oculd lead to his team getting exposed as well.

DonShula84
10-23-2006, 06:07 PM
Not true, it wasn't pinetar, but it was a substance that is used a lot in the music industry. People who play the harp use this gum on their fingers to help ppluck the strings and whatnot. The stuff is so tacky that even after you wash it off thoroughly, it remains sticky for up to 24 hours. So, even though it was visibly gone, he still had use of the gum.

Furthemrore, the cold weather excuse doesn't fly because pictures have surfaced today of Mr. Rogers using this stuff against Oakland in July...

He cheated and got caught, I just wish everyone would admit to it. The Cardinals probably cheat as well, and that is why LaRussa didn't make a huge fuss about it, because it oculd lead to his team getting exposed as well.


Oh he cheated, It didnt appear he needed to though. How do you know the substance on his hand was this gum used in the music industry though? I think La Russa should have made a bigger fuss over it, if Rogers comes back to pitch in a game 7 he's going to wish Kenny was suspended.

Perfect23
10-23-2006, 06:27 PM
he still would of dominated

finswin56
10-23-2006, 07:11 PM
ESPN's Page2 has gotten into the Rogers thing


"I don't see what the big deal is. Back in college I used to have brown stuff on my hands all the time." -- Najeh Davenport, RB, Steelers

"I'll give Rogers the benefit of the doubt because strange things can happen during the course of a game. For instance, sometimes I touch my face when I'm playing and get handsome all over my hands." -- Tom Brady, QB, Patriots

"Hey! Hey! Look at me! Look at me! I just smeared something on my hands, too! Look! Give me some attention! Look over here, everybody!" -- Terrell Owens, WR, Cowboys
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/061023&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1

Quelonio
10-23-2006, 07:17 PM
ESPN's Page2 has gotten into the Rogers thing


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=gallo/061023&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab6pos1

The TO one is good.:lol:

Samphin
10-23-2006, 08:06 PM
Oh he cheated, It didnt appear he needed to though. How do you know the substance on his hand was this gum used in the music industry though? I think La Russa should have made a bigger fuss over it, if Rogers comes back to pitch in a game 7 he's going to wish Kenny was suspended.


Because Kenny isn't the only one who uses it. My Girlfriend's brother actually happens to be in the Marlins farm system and a high school friends was in the Red's organization as a catcher before he retired.

Both have seen and heard things throughout their respective experiences and when I saw thins last night, this substance is what I immediately thought of. Then, listening to the radio today, I heard Keith Olbermann talking about the very thing and I knew I was right, or at least on the right track.

Pitchers doctor balls al the time, be it through loosening the stitches to putting this crap on their palms. It has happened for years, and will happen in the future.

Roger Clemons got caught about 4 years ago with sandpaper and wasn't punished. Generally, umpires, opposing players and managers let these things slide because their players are doing it too, and they don't want the situation to get turned around on their team.

Furthermore, the umps probably had no clue that Fox had picked up on this and told Rogers to clean it up before it got exposure. Too little, too late and now, everyone is in hot water.

djfresh47
10-23-2006, 09:08 PM
Some kinds of cheating are accepted in baseball. Not saying it is right but I think it was Bob Gibson who made a career out of an illegal pitch. I'm sure alot of pitchers use it. Though the point is that Tony La Russa had a chance to take a guy who has been dealing the whole postseason out. He would've been ejected and out for the rest of the postseason. I'm sure guys use it all te time but a manager not putting his team in the best chance to win the world series is not doing his job. I don't even know if the roaster has given up a run during the postseason and La Russa doesn't want that guy out of the series?

BAMAPHIN 22
10-23-2006, 10:29 PM
La Russa on Rogers: I don't believe it was dirt

Tony La Russa kept talking about Kenny Rogers, his words from the interview room booming all around Busch Stadium, courtesy of the PA system. One by one, the Detroit Tigers stopped their workout to listen.

“I don’t believe it was dirt,” they heard the St. Louis manager say. “Didn’t look like dirt.”

A lot of baseball fans weren’t buying Rogers’ explanation, either. So instead of looking to Game 3 of the World Series, the focus Monday stayed squarely on Game 2. Specifically, on what Rogers had at the base of his left thumb — and whether it was there before.

“We know it’s all over the place right now,” umpires’ supervisor Steve Palermo said.

Some photographs from Rogers’ start in the AL championship series against Oakland showed what appeared to be the same kind of smudge on his pitching hand that caught everyone’s attention Sunday night.

Prompted by La Russa, the umpires asked Rogers to clean off his left hand before the second inning. He wound up pitching eight shutout innings in a 3-1 victory that evened the World Series at one game each.

Rogers, who’s gone from playoff farce to postseason force this October, insisted it was an innocent mistake.

“I rub up the balls between the innings and before the game all of the time,” Rogers said Monday. “I rub up the bullpen balls I pitch with with mud, resin, spit. I do it all the time. They rub the ball up, too, with mud before the games.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15392545/from/RS.4/

djfresh47
10-23-2006, 10:42 PM
La Russa on Rogers: I don't believe it was dirt

Tony La Russa kept talking about Kenny Rogers, his words from the interview room booming all around Busch Stadium, courtesy of the PA system. One by one, the Detroit Tigers stopped their workout to listen.

“I don’t believe it was dirt,” they heard the St. Louis manager say. “Didn’t look like dirt.”

A lot of baseball fans weren’t buying Rogers’ explanation, either. So instead of looking to Game 3 of the World Series, the focus Monday stayed squarely on Game 2. Specifically, on what Rogers had at the base of his left thumb — and whether it was there before.

“We know it’s all over the place right now,” umpires’ supervisor Steve Palermo said.

Some photographs from Rogers’ start in the AL championship series against Oakland showed what appeared to be the same kind of smudge on his pitching hand that caught everyone’s attention Sunday night.

Prompted by La Russa, the umpires asked Rogers to clean off his left hand before the second inning. He wound up pitching eight shutout innings in a 3-1 victory that evened the World Series at one game each.

Rogers, who’s gone from playoff farce to postseason force this October, insisted it was an innocent mistake.

“I rub up the balls between the innings and before the game all of the time,” Rogers said Monday. “I rub up the bullpen balls I pitch with with mud, resin, spit. I do it all the time. They rub the ball up, too, with mud before the games.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15392545/from/RS.4/

I was under the assumption that a member of the Tigers told the roaster to clean off his hand. If it was the umpires who told him than that is garbage. They've gotta own it and I will take back my criticism of La Russa because if your report is true it is the umpires fault. Although La Russa should've pushed the issue more. I think it was Brendan Donnelly last year who got suspended ten games because he sweats so much he put something on his hand and was caught. Nothing can be done now but the umpires protected the roaster and gave an advantage to the Tigers. Guys pitch with substances on their hand all the time but if they get caught than they should serve the consequences.

unifiedtheory
10-23-2006, 11:26 PM
I can't say if he is or he isn't....

I do find it odd that a guy who has been HORRIBLE in the post season through out his career is all of a sudden Sandy Koufax.

MikeO
10-24-2006, 12:15 AM
He obviously didnt need it there whatever it was because he washed it off after the first inning and then continued to dominate

Yep!! he was cheating but still, with all of the steroids in the game today....its like what the hell is a little pine tar on someones hand.

DeathStar
10-24-2006, 12:20 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2006/10/mlb_rogers_hand_comparison_275-1.jpg


on the left, game 3 of the ALCS.
on the right, game 2 of the WS.

for you 8 people that voted no, this picture immediately should change your opinion.

dirt my ***.

Majpain
10-24-2006, 12:33 AM
What the hell is Pine Tar?

MikeO
10-24-2006, 01:39 AM
http://espn-ak.starwave.com/photo/2006/1023/mlb_rogers_hand_comparison_275.jpg


on the left, game 3 of the ALCS.
on the right, game 2 of the WS.

for you 8 people that voted no, this picture immediately should change your opinion.

dirt my ***.

LOL. It's possible to get the same color dirt in the same exact part of your hand on the exact day you are pitching. Its possible...:sidelol: :sidelol: :sidelol:

Blade
10-24-2006, 09:18 AM
What the hell is Pine Tar?

Pine tar is a sticky substance baseball players use on their bats to improve grip. Pine tar is applied liberally to Major League Baseball bats every season in the United States of America. Because of its sticky texture, pine tar is used by batters to improve grip on the bat and prevent the bat from slipping out of their hands during hard swings. It is dark brown in color.

Majpain
10-24-2006, 10:04 AM
So why would a pitcher use? So the ball sticks to the bat??!? I'm confused : /

finswin56
10-24-2006, 10:31 AM
So why would a pitcher use? So the ball sticks to the bat??!? I'm confused : /It's not like a glue, it's just tacky. Pitchers just touch their finger tips to it, and it gives a little better grip.

Think about your fingers being really dry, and trying to throw a football. It's a *****. That's why you see QB's always licking their finger tips (Marino did this on almost every play). The pine tar thing is similar. When your hands are freezing, they lose sensation, and dry up. The tackiness of the pine tar helps with the grip, but isn't so much that it would make the ball stick to the bat at all.

djfresh47
10-24-2006, 11:32 AM
The George Brett pine tar incident is legendary.

NJFINSFAN1
10-24-2006, 11:45 AM
I really don't see the big deal, pitchers all do it, and they do it in the playoffs, anyone remember Mike Scott, if MLB wants it stopped like Steriods, then do something, but they don't want it stopped, so it is what it is.

DeathStar
10-24-2006, 12:12 PM
The George Brett pine tar incident is legendary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fonWSlpzcjU

Majpain
10-24-2006, 01:46 PM
It's not like a glue, it's just tacky. Pitchers just touch their finger tips to it, and it gives a little better grip.

Think about your fingers being really dry, and trying to throw a football. It's a *****. That's why you see QB's always licking their finger tips (Marino did this on almost every play). The pine tar thing is similar. When your hands are freezing, they lose sensation, and dry up. The tackiness of the pine tar helps with the grip, but isn't so much that it would make the ball stick to the bat at all.

So advantage Pitchers. Is it banned in baseball?

Ray Finkle
10-24-2006, 01:48 PM
So advantage Pitchers. Is it banned in baseball?

It's an unwritten rule in baseball. Techincially it's illegal however they are tons of pitchers that use stuff like pine tar, shaving cream, sun tan lotion, sand paper etc. I'm sure if it wasn't a playoff game La Russa would have had him checked out.

Roman529
10-24-2006, 04:46 PM
This is just as bad as the Black Sox scandal. :rolleyes:

UCFinfan86
10-24-2006, 11:10 PM
Not true, it wasn't pinetar, but it was a substance that is used a lot in the music industry. People who play the harp use this gum on their fingers to help ppluck the strings and whatnot. The stuff is so tacky that even after you wash it off thoroughly, it remains sticky for up to 24 hours. So, even though it was visibly gone, he still had use of the gum.
.

Then why wouldn't all pitchers put it on and then wash it off? This way they still are able to use it, but no one can see, and why wouldn't rogers do that in the first place?

brandon1986
10-25-2006, 11:39 PM
the guy cheated, it says in the rule books he should have been ejected and suspended 10 games

but i think that the baseball cap is more suspicious, look at the way he put his hand back their he never touched the cap to pull it down or fix it, he put his thumb back there and slid his thumb along the back of his hat and then wiped it in front of the cap

also i saw a baseball report on fox news or somewhere(also saw it on cold pizzza)that a st cardinals insider said that he saw 5 or 6 balls and not only was this substance on those balls but that the balls were also scuffed

brandon1986
10-25-2006, 11:41 PM
Then why wouldn't all pitchers put it on and then wash it off? This way they still are able to use it, but no one can see, and why wouldn't rogers do that in the first place?

if you see a picture or video of the game even after he washes his hand you can still see the coloration of the substance

MikeO
10-26-2006, 09:31 AM
the guy cheated, it says in the rule books he should have been ejected and suspended 10 games



For him to be ejected someone has to complain though. If the Cardinals don't care he is cheating why should anyone else???!!!