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Breed
10-24-2006, 11:07 AM
Teams that could still get a higher pick than us (teams that have 2 wins or less):

Detroit: 1-6
Arizona:1-6
Oakland: 1-5
Tennessee: 1-5
Cleveland: 1-5
Washington: 2-5
Buffalo: 2-5
Pittsburgh: 2-4
Houston: 2-4
Green Bay: 2-4
Tampa Bay: 2-4
San Francisco: 2-4

A lot of really bad teams out there; if we go on a pretty good streak we may be looking at the 12th or 13th pick.

PhinsRock
10-24-2006, 11:09 AM
No, it seems we are fighting pretty hard for the top pick. No way we let any other team have a worse record than us! Go Fins!

PerfectFinz72
10-24-2006, 11:38 AM
Considering we have games:

@Chicago
Kansas City
Jacksonville
New England
@Buffalo
NY Jets
@Indy

Its pretty safe to say we'll be picking no worse than top 5. Assuming those teams continue to play well (outside of Buffalo) and if they are in the playoff race, those are gonna be tough games to win. My guess, we go 2-5 at best in those 7 games. Top 3 is really a possibilty.

HelloMotto
10-24-2006, 11:45 AM
Considering we have games:

@Chicago
Kansas City
Jacksonville
New England
@Buffalo
NY Jets
@Indy

Its pretty safe to say we'll be picking no worse than top 5. Assuming those teams continue to play well (outside of Buffalo) and if they are in the playoff race, those are gonna be tough games to win. My guess, we go 2-5 at best in those 7 games. Top 3 is really a possibilty.

plus we have the worst run o line i have ever seen. top 2

Breed
10-24-2006, 12:08 PM
Arizona is averaging 2.53 ypc as a team; by far the worst in the NFL. That combined with a rookie QB and a lousy defense equals disaster. Arizona is worse than us.

Oakland has a very poor OL and perhaps the worst starting QB in the NFL. Oakland will likely pick before us.

Cleveland has Charlie Frye at QB, as if that weren't bad enough they also have the 2nd worst ypc as a team (3.10). Their defense is no better than ours. Cleveland is likely to pick before us.

That right there should put us around #4 overall, but Detroit, Tennesse, Green Bay, Houston and Tampa Bay will also give us some competition for a top pick.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
10-24-2006, 01:04 PM
cleveland and oakland both have young QB's have gotten better each game. i think they'll pull out some more wins. arizona as well, obviously.

dominizzo
10-24-2006, 01:47 PM
Considering we have games:

@Chicago
Kansas City
Jacksonville
New England
@Buffalo
NY Jets
@Indy

Its pretty safe to say we'll be picking no worse than top 5. Assuming those teams continue to play well (outside of Buffalo) and if they are in the playoff race, those are gonna be tough games to win. My guess, we go 2-5 at best in those 7 games. Top 3 is really a possibilty.


I only see us beating barffalo!! 1-6

primetime23
10-24-2006, 02:29 PM
seeing our sched we really have a chance to close out the season 1-16.

Agent51
10-24-2006, 02:40 PM
Well, I guess the obvious question is who do we go for in the top 3, or 5, assuming we finish the season at the same rate we have been going? This isn't meant to be one of those "Let's lose out to get the #1 pick" statements, I'm just asking the obvious question that goes with this thread.

Personally, I have no clue. On one hand, I have ZERO faith in Culpepper, I have NEVER liked him, I never wanted him, and I was EXTREMELY mad when Saban made the trade for him. It's the first thing I have been pissed at Saban for (besides starting Reggie Howard :lol:). I don't believe he is "the future" and I don't believe he is the fix to our QB problems. The guy was CRAP last season, BEFORE the injury. You add a serious knee injury to a QB who was already going downhill and who relies on his legs to make plays, and that is NOT a good combination, definately not a round 2 combo. I am sick and tired of the whole "one person's trash is another man's treasure" outlook for our QB situation. We need to just draft a young QB and start grooming him to be the future, because every person we have tried since Dan Marino has been a career backup that is thrown into a starting role. Fiedler, Lucas, Rosenfels, Griese, Heupel, Frerotte, Feeley, Lemon, Berlin, Culpepper, Harrington, Vick. THOSE are our answers at QB since Marino left :rolleyes2. Only ONE has ever done anything worthwhile. I hate to bring up the most GLARING screw up, but we passed up DREW BREES for JAMAR FLETCHER. We could be sitting pretty right now with Drew Brees throwing to Chambers, McMichael, Booker, Welker, Hagan, and Brown. Instead we have Gimpy McSuckpepper and Joey Heres-The-Ball-Defense-Ington. I am not a negative person, and I usually hold out on judgement, good or bad, til I have given the players a fair amount of time to show something. Well, enough time already, our QBs SUCK and we need to DRAFT a QB (that isn't a round 6 QB named Heupel). It's time to invest in our future, and get a RETURN on the investment. Not toss away a round 2 pick on a has-been.

On the other hand, who the hell do we take? Say, hypothetically, we do have a top 3-5 pick. We need a QB super bad, but there are two problems. The first, QBs (or any pick for that matter) that high take up a LOT of cap room. That is only a minor problem though, the other is, do any of the QBs DESERVE a pick that high? Everyone will toss out Brady Quinn's name, but honestly, he showed one great season and he looks like CRAP this season. I think last year's success was due more to the fact that the defenses hadn't seen Weis' offense than it did with Brady Quinn's talents. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, I'm by no means bashing him, but is he worthy of a top 3-5 pick? He has fallen this year just as fast as he rose last year. Troy Smith? No thank you. I don't care what "experts" say, the guy ISN'T Vince Young. They just compare them because they are both successful black QBs. I would take Young over Smith any day. Smith has had Ted Ginn Jr (and Sinorice Moss last year) to bail him out, Vince did it all on his own. Limas Sweed, Texas' #1 WR, didn't break out til THIS year (even though the potential was always there). Plus, Young isn't destroying the NFL like he did the NCAA, so why should we think Troy will be any different?

Who does that leave for QBs? For seniors we have Drew Stanton, Jordan Palmer, Kevin Kolb, Chris Leak, and Joe Ayoob as the top guys, and Chad Henne and Brian Brohm as the top juniors. None of them are worthy of a top 5 pick. We have our RB, we have our TE, we have our WRs, so which way do we go with this one? Offense is obviously our problem, with the exception of the secondary, which I don't think is as glaring as the offense, but it needs to definately be addressed.

What's everyone else's take on this? What position/who do you think we should go with assuming we have a top 3-5 pick?

If I HAD to chose, and we couldn't trade, I'd snatch up Brady Quinn. Despite his troubles he HAS put together some impressive comeback drives this year, and it's obvious he can be coached up because he went from nobody to Heisman candidate in one year with Weis.

I would have LOVED to grab Cutler last year though. I liked him before all the hype started and I knew he would be good in the NFL because he was used to the pressure of a bad team and having to carry the team in his back to get wins. Leinart was TOO used to winning, I figured he'd have trouble going from the top to the bottom, but Cutler was already around the bottom, so it wouldn't be a drastic change for him.

rainmaker1313
10-24-2006, 02:59 PM
seeing our sched we really have a chance to close out the season 1-16.Tell you what I will put up 1 million to your $1,000 we dont end up 1-16

LAMiamifan
10-24-2006, 03:26 PM
Tell you what I will put up 1 million to your $1,000 we dont end up 1-16

Well, yeah considiering the only way we end up 1-16 is if we lose in the first round of the playoffs off a one win season

Stitches
10-24-2006, 03:36 PM
Well, I guess the obvious question is who do we go for in the top 3, or 5, assuming we finish the season at the same rate we have been going? This isn't meant to be one of those "Let's lose out to get the #1 pick" statements, I'm just asking the obvious question that goes with this thread.

Personally, I have no clue. On one hand, I have ZERO faith in Culpepper, I have NEVER liked him, I never wanted him, and I was EXTREMELY mad when Saban made the trade for him. It's the first thing I have been pissed at Saban for (besides starting Reggie Howard :lol:). I don't believe he is "the future" and I don't believe he is the fix to our QB problems. The guy was CRAP last season, BEFORE the injury. You add a serious knee injury to a QB who was already going downhill and who relies on his legs to make plays, and that is NOT a good combination, definately not a round 2 combo. I am sick and tired of the whole "one person's trash is another man's treasure" outlook for our QB situation. We need to just draft a young QB and start grooming him to be the future, because every person we have tried since Dan Marino has been a career backup that is thrown into a starting role. Fiedler, Lucas, Rosenfels, Griese, Heupel, Frerotte, Feeley, Lemon, Berlin, Culpepper, Harrington, Vick. THOSE are our answers at QB since Marino left :rolleyes2. Only ONE has ever done anything worthwhile. I hate to bring up the most GLARING screw up, but we passed up DREW BREES for JAMAR FLETCHER. We could be sitting pretty right now with Drew Brees throwing to Chambers, McMichael, Booker, Welker, Hagan, and Brown. Instead we have Gimpy McSuckpepper and Joey Heres-The-Ball-Defense-Ington. I am not a negative person, and I usually hold out on judgement, good or bad, til I have given the players a fair amount of time to show something. Well, enough time already, our QBs SUCK and we need to DRAFT a QB (that isn't a round 6 QB named Heupel). It's time to invest in our future, and get a RETURN on the investment. Not toss away a round 2 pick on a has-been.

On the other hand, who the hell do we take? Say, hypothetically, we do have a top 3-5 pick. We need a QB super bad, but there are two problems. The first, QBs (or any pick for that matter) that high take up a LOT of cap room. That is only a minor problem though, the other is, do any of the QBs DESERVE a pick that high? Everyone will toss out Brady Quinn's name, but honestly, he showed one great season and he looks like CRAP this season. I think last year's success was due more to the fact that the defenses hadn't seen Weis' offense than it did with Brady Quinn's talents. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, I'm by no means bashing him, but is he worthy of a top 3-5 pick? He has fallen this year just as fast as he rose last year. Troy Smith? No thank you. I don't care what "experts" say, the guy ISN'T Vince Young. They just compare them because they are both successful black QBs. I would take Young over Smith any day. Smith has had Ted Ginn Jr (and Sinorice Moss last year) to bail him out, Vince did it all on his own. Limas Sweed, Texas' #1 WR, didn't break out til THIS year (even though the potential was always there). Plus, Young isn't destroying the NFL like he did the NCAA, so why should we think Troy will be any different?

Who does that leave for QBs? For seniors we have Drew Stanton, Jordan Palmer, Kevin Kolb, Chris Leak, and Joe Ayoob as the top guys, and Chad Henne and Brian Brohm as the top juniors. None of them are worthy of a top 5 pick. We have our RB, we have our TE, we have our WRs, so which way do we go with this one? Offense is obviously our problem, with the exception of the secondary, which I don't think is as glaring as the offense, but it needs to definately be addressed.

What's everyone else's take on this? What position/who do you think we should go with assuming we have a top 3-5 pick?

If I HAD to chose, and we couldn't trade, I'd snatch up Brady Quinn. Despite his troubles he HAS put together some impressive comeback drives this year, and it's obvious he can be coached up because he went from nobody to Heisman candidate in one year with Weis.

I would have LOVED to grab Cutler last year though. I liked him before all the hype started and I knew he would be good in the NFL because he was used to the pressure of a bad team and having to carry the team in his back to get wins. Leinart was TOO used to winning, I figured he'd have trouble going from the top to the bottom, but Cutler was already around the bottom, so it wouldn't be a drastic change for him.

A few things: Moss played for the University of Miami(FL), Santonio Holmes was for OSU.

- Harrington was never viewed as a career back-up in any of his first 3 seasons in Detroit, nor was he drafted to be.

- Culpepper certainly isn't viewed as a career back-up and his numbers as a starter have showed that.

- Lemon, Vick, and Heupel were never brought in to take over as starters. Lemon maybe was brought in to start down the road, but never right away.

-Had we drafted Brees, and he garnered the succes you seem to think he would have, we most likely wouldn't have half those players on this team that you said he'd be throwing to.

-We don't need a QB superbad. That is just your opinion because you have never liked Culpepper. Saban surely thinks Culpepper is the future of this team at this point.

-Brady Quinn has NOT looked like crap this year. His only bad game was against Michigan. You can't realistically expect a single player to play lights out every single game. Quinn has the talent to be a top 5 pick, and certainly a top 10(though I don't want him, and I think Brohm is better)*I see you think he is at least top 5 worthy too, since you suggested we take him.

-Troy Smith has the privelage of being a good QB on the #1 rated team in the country, and has very good players around him.

-Brian Brohm could very well be worth a top 5 pick. And only Stanton and Henne out of all the other QBs you mention might even be considered 1st rounders by the time April hits. So of course none of the others are worthy of being top 5.

-I wanted Cutler before the college season started last year, and thought he'd be available at 16 by the time the season ended. Then workouts came, and I honestly thought he'd go top 8. So when we traded a 2nd for Culpepper I thought it was a great deal. A much better deal than what I thought it would be to trade up to around 7-9 in order to get Cutler.

-If I was drafting in the top 3-5, I would draft Calvin Johnson if available, or Joe Thomas. If either of those were unavailable, I would try and trade down 5 spots or so. Then with the lower 1st round pick I would get someone like Baker, Posluszny, Landry, or to a lesser extent Gaines Adams. Heck, might even try and trade down again if other teams were really chomping at the bit, and hope to get someone like Leon Hall, Levi Brown, or Aaron Rouse(I know at ths point Rouse in the mid-first is a stretch, and I'm sorry UF FinKat, you know I like Levi Brown).

Agent51
10-25-2006, 01:54 PM
A few things: Moss played for the University of Miami(FL), Santonio Holmes was for OSU.

- Harrington was never viewed as a career back-up in any of his first 3 seasons in Detroit, nor was he drafted to be.

- Culpepper certainly isn't viewed as a career back-up and his numbers as a starter have showed that.

- Lemon, Vick, and Heupel were never brought in to take over as starters. Lemon maybe was brought in to start down the road, but never right away.

-Had we drafted Brees, and he garnered the succes you seem to think he would have, we most likely wouldn't have half those players on this team that you said he'd be throwing to.

-We don't need a QB superbad. That is just your opinion because you have never liked Culpepper. Saban surely thinks Culpepper is the future of this team at this point.

-Brady Quinn has NOT looked like crap this year. His only bad game was against Michigan. You can't realistically expect a single player to play lights out every single game. Quinn has the talent to be a top 5 pick, and certainly a top 10(though I don't want him, and I think Brohm is better)*I see you think he is at least top 5 worthy too, since you suggested we take him.

-Troy Smith has the privelage of being a good QB on the #1 rated team in the country, and has very good players around him.

-Brian Brohm could very well be worth a top 5 pick. And only Stanton and Henne out of all the other QBs you mention might even be considered 1st rounders by the time April hits. So of course none of the others are worthy of being top 5.

-I wanted Cutler before the college season started last year, and thought he'd be available at 16 by the time the season ended. Then workouts came, and I honestly thought he'd go top 8. So when we traded a 2nd for Culpepper I thought it was a great deal. A much better deal than what I thought it would be to trade up to around 7-9 in order to get Cutler.

-If I was drafting in the top 3-5, I would draft Calvin Johnson if available, or Joe Thomas. If either of those were unavailable, I would try and trade down 5 spots or so. Then with the lower 1st round pick I would get someone like Baker, Posluszny, Landry, or to a lesser extent Gaines Adams. Heck, might even try and trade down again if other teams were really chomping at the bit, and hope to get someone like Leon Hall, Levi Brown, or Aaron Rouse(I know at ths point Rouse in the mid-first is a stretch, and I'm sorry UF FinKat, you know I like Levi Brown).

I knew it was Santonio Holmes, I have no clue why I posted Sinorice Moss :confused:

Also, my dislike for Culpepper has nothing to do with thinking we need a new QB. I dislike him because he isn't a good player. His numbers at as a starter USED to show something, BEFORE the disaster season last year and this year. IMO he is headed down. And besides, we invested a 2nd round pick in a guy that has already been in the league for 8 years when we could have invested the pick (either in round 2 or packaged in a trade) to get a rookie QB whos lifespan in the league will be longer than Daunte's. Again, Daunte is just a temporary fix. Reagrdless of his skill level, he isn't going to have the same longevity as a rookie QB, and it appears it will be even shorter now with all of the problems resurfacing with his knee. I don't like the Daunte trade because I am sick of taking QBs that either suck and were never meant to be starters or QBs that were on the downfall on their other teams or QBs that have already been in the league for 8 years. I'm sick of this team not investing in a new QB. A ROOKIE QB, to be our new franchise QB. Not a QB who is coming off the worst season of his career and a serious knee injury and calling him our franchise QB.

As far as Culpepper and Harrington not being career backups, I didn't mean them, I meant everyone else, I should have clarified that. Either way, neither of them are PLAYING like starters right now.

I didn't mean to say Brady looked like CRAP, lol, but he isn't the Quinn of the year before. I KNOW he can't detroy every opponent, but he doesn't look as good as he did the year before. His "flash" is gone, and he seems to make more poor decisions and it seems like ND is coming from behind more, and like the offense takes awhile to get in rhytm in the games, Quinn included. All I'm saying is he isn't the "freak" of a QB we saw a year ago, of course he's still good, and I liek the guy, and would love him on the team, but I'm always wary of taking a QB that high period

As far as Calvin Johnson, yeah, he's a great player, maybe best in the draft, but I don't think our problems are at WR, our problems are getting the WRs the ball, the QBs are the problem. Of course we could always upgrade a Marty Booker to a Calvin Johnson, but what good does it do if the QBs can't stop getting sacked, or throwing INTs, or making poor decisions?

Again, I don'ty think we need a QB bad because I dislike Culpepper, I think we need a QB bad because we do, because there is no denying Culpepper played like crap, regardless of my personal feelings towards him. Even IF Culpepper is "the future", how long is that future going to last? A couple years? Either way, we need a QB now to start grooming for the future.

FinNasty
10-25-2006, 03:10 PM
Teams that could still get a higher pick than us (teams that have 2 wins or less):

Detroit: 1-6
Arizona:1-6
Oakland: 1-5
Tennessee: 1-5
Cleveland: 1-5
Washington: 2-5
Buffalo: 2-5
Pittsburgh: 2-4
Houston: 2-4
Green Bay: 2-4
Tampa Bay: 2-4
San Francisco: 2-4

A lot of really bad teams out there; if we go on a pretty good streak we may be looking at the 12th or 13th pick.

ya... but our strength of schedule is pathetic...

Stitches
10-25-2006, 03:25 PM
I knew it was Santonio Holmes, I have no clue why I posted Sinorice Moss :confused:

Also, my dislike for Culpepper has nothing to do with thinking we need a new QB. I dislike him because he isn't a good player. His numbers at as a starter USED to show something, BEFORE the disaster season last year and this year. IMO he is headed down. And besides, we invested a 2nd round pick in a guy that has already been in the league for 8 years when we could have invested the pick (either in round 2 or packaged in a trade) to get a rookie QB whos lifespan in the league will be longer than Daunte's. Again, Daunte is just a temporary fix. Reagrdless of his skill level, he isn't going to have the same longevity as a rookie QB, and it appears it will be even shorter now with all of the problems resurfacing with his knee. I don't like the Daunte trade because I am sick of taking QBs that either suck and were never meant to be starters or QBs that were on the downfall on their other teams or QBs that have already been in the league for 8 years. I'm sick of this team not investing in a new QB. A ROOKIE QB, to be our new franchise QB. Not a QB who is coming off the worst season of his career and a serious knee injury and calling him our franchise QB.

As far as Culpepper and Harrington not being career backups, I didn't mean them, I meant everyone else, I should have clarified that. Either way, neither of them are PLAYING like starters right now.

I didn't mean to say Brady looked like CRAP, lol, but he isn't the Quinn of the year before. I KNOW he can't detroy every opponent, but he doesn't look as good as he did the year before. His "flash" is gone, and he seems to make more poor decisions and it seems like ND is coming from behind more, and like the offense takes awhile to get in rhytm in the games, Quinn included. All I'm saying is he isn't the "freak" of a QB we saw a year ago, of course he's still good, and I liek the guy, and would love him on the team, but I'm always wary of taking a QB that high period

As far as Calvin Johnson, yeah, he's a great player, maybe best in the draft, but I don't think our problems are at WR, our problems are getting the WRs the ball, the QBs are the problem. Of course we could always upgrade a Marty Booker to a Calvin Johnson, but what good does it do if the QBs can't stop getting sacked, or throwing INTs, or making poor decisions?

Again, I don'ty think we need a QB bad because I dislike Culpepper, I think we need a QB bad because we do, because there is no denying Culpepper played like crap, regardless of my personal feelings towards him. Even IF Culpepper is "the future", how long is that future going to last? A couple years? Either way, we need a QB now to start grooming for the future.

Fair enough to what you have to say.

I think Quinn is just as good this year as he was last year. I guess I never thought there was a flash, just a very very good player. I think Brohm is the best QB in college, like I said before.

And I think Culpepper is the future of this team. As to how long it would last, I would say about 6 years(IMO). So I would look to draft a QB in like 2009, unless our QB situation was awful again next season when everyone *should be healthy.

The second round pick we spent on him, would of only been valuable(in regards to drafting a QB), if we could have bundled it to trade up. Like I said I wanted Cutler bad last year, but I never though we'd have a chance at him after all the workouts. Plus if we spent the 1st and 2nd on a QB last year, that'd be like 3 high picks used on QBs in 2 seasons. Also, Cutler wouldn't be doing any good behind this line right now, and he might end up with a mental toughness like Tim Couch(who was ruined because of his line in Cleveland IMO)

I'l respect your views now that I understand them better, I will just disagree with them. :D To each thier own. :wink: