PDA

View Full Version : Troy Smith?



fanaticfin
11-01-2006, 01:45 AM
I was looking through 2007 mock drafts and kept on seeing 3 or 4 qbs drafted before Troy Smith. I was hoping someone could explain how this makes sense. I realize the people running these sites know more about college football than I do, but Troy Smith has easily been one of the top two players in college football this season (the other being, in my opinion, Peterson before he got hurt). While I have only seen two Ohio State games this year (Texas and Iowa) because I am gator fan and normally try to watch the gators and other SEC teams. He has looked great in both games I have watched, and from everything I have read online he is the runaway heisman trophy winner. I understand that the heisman trophy winner is not necessarily the best nfl prospect (Jason White, Eric Crouch, Chris Weinke, and etc....), but from what I have seen in the games I have watched this year and the Notre Dame bowl game he has a great arm and even better legs. What is not to like about that. Any comments on this would be greatly appreciated, because I am trying to figure out why people, that I believe know much more about college football than me, are stating that Brady Quinn, Brian Brohm, and Drew Stanton should be selected before Troy Smith.

finz99
11-01-2006, 01:57 AM
His size, and that he may only be this good because of his surrounding talent are what concern people. Size is the key one.

gish
11-01-2006, 02:59 AM
once he wins the national championship he will be in the top 10 in the first round

rod557
11-01-2006, 03:01 AM
it is his size that is the problem, i am a buckeye fan and watch everygame. this kid can run and really throw the ball. He also so the ablity to choose what to do at any given time in the game. he is not only a runner but a very good passer. Brees is only 6 foot. he is doing fine. If we could some how get him in the 2 round i think that would be great. and CJ in the first. wow

djfresh47
11-01-2006, 03:17 AM
He's listed at 6'1 which is short for a Qb. Smith is the front-runner for the heisman but when it comes to prospects I think that Quinn and Brohm look more like a proto-typical Qb. Quinn has Weis to help promote and Brohm and Lousiville has as good of a shot at getting the championship game as Ohio State right now without Michael Bush. I think Brohm is only a Jr. so it's not a gurantee he even declares.

ManBearPig
11-01-2006, 03:29 AM
I agree with what everyone has said, but im not really impressed by this guy until i see him win a game for them. His defense is stout and running game is pretty good, i wanna see him win a game for them. You can say hes gone out there and put up good numbers, but has this guy brought his team from behind or single handedly take over a game. I havent seen all the buckeye games but i live in Indiana and watch almost all of em and i just havent seen it.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 08:33 AM
once he wins the national championship he will be in the top 10 in the first round
I highly doubt him being a 1st round pick, certainly not a top 10, regardless if the team he plays on wins the national championship game.

Shouright
11-01-2006, 09:24 AM
Brees is only 6 foot.And Mark Brunell is 6'1".

Crowder52
11-01-2006, 10:27 AM
The NFL Draft is not about who is the best college QB, it's about who will be the best NFL QB. I think that is the source of your confusion.

Majpain
11-01-2006, 10:34 AM
^ Whats wrong with Smith? He has a great arm, makes great choices, can read a defense and scrambles when he needs too.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 10:37 AM
^ Whats wrong with Smith? He has a great arm, makes great choices, can read a defense and scrambles when he needs too.

Off the top of my head: his height.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-01-2006, 10:39 AM
he has a pretty high release and can certainly find the passing lanes, his height isn't really a concern, although it'll still hurt his stock.

Majpain
11-01-2006, 10:40 AM
Off the top of my head: his height.
So that should negate his talent?

I honestly didnt know Height mattered for a QB. I wouldnt think his height could set him back to rounds 2-3.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 10:41 AM
he has a pretty high release and can certainly find the passing lanes, his height isn't really a concern, although it'll still hurt his stock.

And that's all I was commenting about, as to what was wrong with him. One problem is his height, so that'll hurt him.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 10:41 AM
So that should negate his talent?

I never said that. You just asked what was wrong with him, and I named something.

Majpain
11-01-2006, 10:46 AM
I never said that. You just asked what was wrong with him, and I named something.

I know I kinda asked another question :goof:

ZThomas54
11-01-2006, 10:48 AM
So that should negate his talent?

I honestly didnt know Height mattered for a QB. I wouldnt think his height could set him back to rounds 2-3.


when he's throwing passes that get batted down or tipped by the dline and picked off it might. you have to realize that his passes are coming off like 5 or 6 inches lower than peyton mannings and tom bradys.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 10:49 AM
I know I kinda asked another question :goof:

Touche. Read to much into it.

No it shouldn't negate his talent, but it should certainly be factored in when translating his game. Also factor in the talent around him compared to the opposition. If he has great bowl game, and postseason games, and a great workout, he will move up IMO. But as is, I see him as a mid/late 2nd round pick at best.

Crowder52
11-01-2006, 10:51 AM
^ Whats wrong with Smith? He has a great arm, makes great choices, can read a defense and scrambles when he needs too.

I am not a scout and have no idea why some guys project higher than others most of the time. All I'm saying is that playing QB in college is not the same as playing QB in the pros, and scouts know this.

For an example of someone with Troy Smith-like numbers, look no further than former FSU QB Charlie Ward. He won the 1993 Heisman trophy, throwing for 27 TDs with only 4 INTs while being an amazing scrambler. He was clearly the best college QB that year, but he was never considered an NFL style QB.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 10:52 AM
I am not a scout and have no idea why some guys project higher than others most of the time. All I'm saying is that playing QB in college is not the same as playing QB in the pros, and scouts know this.

For an example of someone with Troy Smith-like numbers, look no further than former FSU QB Charlie Ward. He won the 1993 Heisman trophy, throwing for 27 TDs with only 4 INTs while being an amazing scrambler. He was clearly the best college QB that year, but he was never considered an NFL style QB.

To be fair, Ward never sought to play in the NFL. He chose the NBA.

Majpain
11-01-2006, 10:55 AM
when he's throwing passes that get batted down or tipped by the dline and picked off it might. you have to realize that his passes are coming off like 5 or 6 inches lower than peyton mannings and tom bradys.

Thats true. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Crowder52
11-01-2006, 10:56 AM
To be fair, Ward never sought to play in the NFL. He chose the NBA.

And I would argue a big reason why he made that decision was the fact that he projected as a more successful NBA player.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 10:59 AM
And I would argue a big reason why he made that decision was the fact that he projected as a more successful NBA player.

Considering the pounding he would avoid in the NBA, and the resulting longevity, he was projected to have more success there.

Crowder52
11-01-2006, 11:03 AM
Considering the pounding he would avoid in the NBA, and the resulting longevity, he was projected to have more success there.

He publicly stated he didn't want to play football unless he was drafted in the first round. He wasn't. In fact, he wasn't drafted in any round. He was selected in the first round of the NBA Draft, so it seems he was projected a more successful basketball player regardless.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 11:07 AM
He publicly stated he didn't want to play football unless he was drafted in the first round. He wasn't. In fact, he wasn't drafted in any round. He was selected in the first round of the NBA Draft, so it seems he was projected a more successful basketball player regardless.

I meant more success from a personal view. Since he'd be able to play there longer.

And I didn't know he publicly stated he wouldn't play unless he was a 1st rounder. But if I didn't want to take him in the 1st round, I wouldn't waste a pick on him later in the draft, if he told me he wouldn't play unless he was a 1st rounder.

gish
11-01-2006, 11:14 AM
I highly doubt him being a 1st round pick, certainly not a top 10, regardless if the team he plays on wins the national championship game.

Yeah, and Vince Young didnt help his cause by single handedly beating USC, did he?

If Smith can do that, he will be a first rounder for sure. Also, 6'1" is not that small. He is much taller than Flutie.

Crowder52
11-01-2006, 11:14 AM
I meant more success from a personal view. Since he'd be able to play there longer.

And I didn't know he publicly stated he wouldn't play unless he was a 1st rounder. But if I didn't want to take him in the 1st round, I wouldn't waste a pick on him later in the draft, if he told me he wouldn't play unless he was a 1st rounder.

Which means people didn't grade him as a first round prospect, if no one took him there. And therein lies the Troy Smith comparison that I made in the first place.

Crowder52
11-01-2006, 11:16 AM
Yeah, and Vince Young didnt help his cause by single handedly beating USC, did he?

If Smith can do that, he will be a first rounder for sure. Also, 6'1" is not that small. He is much taller than Flutie.

Lol come on man saying someone is taller than Flutie doesn't legitimize their size.

Alex44
11-01-2006, 11:18 AM
Yeah, and Vince Young didnt help his cause by single handedly beating USC, did he?

If Smith can do that, he will be a first rounder for sure. Also, 6'1" is not that small. He is much taller than Flutie.


Vince Young was already a first round pick, most likely a top 12 pick also. Beating USC just solidified it.

Even if Troy Smith beats someone single handedly this is a very weak year in terms of true powerhouse teams in college football, and no-one (including Ohio State) could carry last years USC or Texas's jock strap. So that would take away from his performance IMO

To me Smith is a Mid First to Early Second round pick

rafael
11-01-2006, 11:27 AM
I haven't watched the kid play yet, but my understanding is that his knocks are his height (as mentioned here) and character (in that he's had some off field issues). I don't really follow OSU so I don't know the validit or extent of such issues.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 11:41 AM
Yeah, and Vince Young didnt help his cause by single handedly beating USC, did he?

If Smith can do that, he will be a first rounder for sure. Also, 6'1" is not that small. He is much taller than Flutie.

I haven't seen Smith single handedly beat anyone yet. Troy is no Vince Young.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 11:41 AM
Which means people didn't grade him as a first round prospect, if no one took him there. And therein lies the Troy Smith comparison that I made in the first place.

Alright, fair enough. :D

Crowder52
11-01-2006, 11:45 AM
Hey I just noticed you're from Akron...you should get a Jason Taylor throwback lol.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-01-2006, 11:52 AM
I haven't seen Smith single handedly beat anyone yet. Troy is no Vince Young.
i never saw young do it, either.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 11:59 AM
i never saw young do it, either.

Me neither. But I didn't say he did. I still stand by the statement that Smith is no Vince Young though.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 12:00 PM
Hey I just noticed you're from Akron...you should get a Jason Taylor throwback lol.

They were giving them away(not authentic throwback, but replica) for attending a certain number of basketball home games. But I don't like our basketball enough, and I wouldn't have been able to attend enough games even if I wanted to go.

Whitner20
11-01-2006, 12:14 PM
Vince Young was already a first round pick, most likely a top 12 pick also. Beating USC just solidified it.

Even if Troy Smith beats someone single handedly this is a very weak year in terms of true powerhouse teams in college football, and no-one (including Ohio State) could carry last years USC or Texas's jock strap. So that would take away from his performance IMO

To me Smith is a Mid First to Early Second round pick

Are you crazy? OSU would have beat Texas last year if Smith hadn't been suspended, and they would have mopped the floor with USC.

Whitner20
11-01-2006, 12:15 PM
Me neither. But I didn't say he did. I still stand by the statement that Smith is no Vince Young though.

If you mean that because Troy Smith is smarter, makes better decisions, and is a better quarterback than you're right.....

Vince Young is a running quarterback....Troy Smith is a quarterback.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 12:16 PM
Are you crazy? OSU would have beat Texas last year if Smith hadn't been suspended, and they would have mopped the floor with USC.

:shakeno:

Nevermind. Forgot, they're a perfect team.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 12:19 PM
If you mean that because Troy Smith is smarter, makes better decisions, and is a better quarterback than you're right.....

Vince Young is a running quarterback....Troy Smith is a quarterback.

Whether they run often or not is irrelivent, since they play the same position. Because if you classify Young as a running QB(in an attempt to slight his game), then you can't argue about Troy's threat as a runner as a reason he's better than Quinn(or any other Qb for that matter).

Whitner20
11-01-2006, 12:25 PM
Whether they run often or not is irrelivent, since they play the same position. Because if you classify Young as a running QB(in an attempt to slight his game), then you can't argue about Troy's threat as a runner as a reason he's better than Quinn(or any other Qb for that matter).

I don't need Smith's ability to run as a reason as to why he's better than Brady Quinn....

Stitches
11-01-2006, 12:39 PM
I don't need Smith's ability to run as a reason as to why he's better than Brady Quinn....

Ok, but the abilty to run effectively helps you as a quarterback. And you attempted to slight Vince Young, by saying "Vince Young is a running quarterback....Troy Smith is a quarterback," as if they play different positions, and you can't compare the two.

PeaTearGriffin
11-01-2006, 01:13 PM
For the buckeyes the only game that matters is OSU vs Mich....the past two years the buckeyes have won both games smith started. 2 years ago he dominated the game 18 rushes for 145 yards and a TD, threw for 241 and 2 more TDs...last year the buckeyes were down 9 with 7 minutes left in the game and lead them to the win. rushed for 37 yards and a TD, threw for 300 and another TD. So to say he hasn't showed up for big games and can't take a game over is false.

And for people that haven't seen him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAQPC0Wc1FU

Vertical Limit
11-01-2006, 01:27 PM
once he wins the national championship he will be in the top 10 in the first round
Yeah, just like Craig Krenzel, right? :rolleyes:

footballer
11-01-2006, 01:38 PM
He's listed at 6'1 which is short for a Qb. Smith is the front-runner for the heisman but when it comes to prospects I think that Quinn and Brohm look more like a proto-typical Qb. Quinn has Weis to help promote and Brohm and Lousiville has as good of a shot at getting the championship game as Ohio State right now without Michael Bush. I think Brohm is only a Jr. so it's not a gurantee he even declares.


well , drew bress is 6 foot..

and we passed on him..


twice.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 01:52 PM
For the buckeyes the only game that matters is OSU vs Mich....the past two years the buckeyes have won both games smith started. 2 years ago he dominated the game 18 rushes for 145 yards and a TD, threw for 241 and 2 more TDs...last year the buckeyes were down 9 with 7 minutes left in the game and lead them to the win. rushed for 37 yards and a TD, threw for 300 and another TD. So to say he hasn't showed up for big games and can't take a game over is false.

And for people that haven't seen him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAQPC0Wc1FU

I didn't see anyone say he didn't show up in big games. I probably did infer he couldn't take a game over, but I meant it more in the sense that you had to account less for him(singularly) on defense than you would for someone like Mike Vick, Brad Smith, or Vince Young(even to a lesser extent Pat White and Michael Robinson).

And thank you for pointing out an instance where Smith had to lead his team to victory(Michigan last year down by 9), but how'd the defense do field position wise in those last 7 minutes?

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-01-2006, 01:59 PM
I meant it more in the sense that you had to account less for him(singularly) on defense than you would for someone like Mike Vick, Brad Smith, or Vince Young(even to a lesser extent Pat White and Michael Robinson).
he's really nothing like any of those guys though.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 02:04 PM
he's really nothing like any of those guys though.

I know he's not like them. His style of play is much much different. Which is why a college defense doesn't have to account for just Smith as much as they would for any of the guys I mentioned(regardless of the team they played on, because obviously the defense can't exactly afford to key on Smith anyways because of the talent around him).

PeaTearGriffin
11-01-2006, 02:24 PM
Heres the last two drives for the buckeyes in the game last year...
1st and 10 at OSU 33Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Anthony Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146166) for 27 yards to the Mich 40 for a 1ST down. 12 21
1st and 10 at MICH 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass incomplete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634).
2nd and 10 at MICH 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass incomplete to Roy Hall (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133632).
3rd and 10 at MICH 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) rush for 14 yards to the Mich 26 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MICH 26Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 26 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.1821Josh Huston (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=105947) extra point GOOD. 19 21

This drive started after Michigan kicked a FG and kicked off returned by gonzo.

Ohio State at 4:05
OSUMICH1st and 10 at OSU 12Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Ted Ginn Jr for 9 yards to the OSU 21. 19 21
2nd and 1 at OSU 21Antonio Pittman (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=160722) rush for 2 yards to the OSU 23 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at OSU 23Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass incomplete to Anthony Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146166).
2nd and 10 at OSU 23Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Ted Ginn Jr for 11 yards to the OSU 34 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at OSU 34Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Ted Ginn Jr for 6 yards to the OSU 40.
2nd and 4 at OSU 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 7 yards to the OSU 47 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at OSU 47Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 11 yards to the Mich 42 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MICH 42Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) rush for 5 yards to the Mich 37.
2nd and 5 at MICH 37Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 6 yards to the Mich 31 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MICH 31Timeout OHIO ST, clock 00:47.
1st and 10 at MICH 31Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Anthony Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146166) for 27 yards to the Mich 4 for a 1ST down.
1st and Goal at MICH 4Timeout MICHIGAN, clock 00:37.
1st and Goal at MICH 4Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) rush for no gain to the Mich 4.
2nd and Goal at MICH 4Timeout MICHIGAN, clock 00:29.
2nd and Goal at MICH 4Antonio Pittman (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=160722) rush for 4 yards for a TOUCHDOWN. 25 21
This one the D made michigan punt but they didn't have good field postion.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 02:26 PM
Heres the last two drives for the buckeyes in the game last year...
1st and 10 at OSU 33Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Anthony Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146166) for 27 yards to the Mich 40 for a 1ST down.12211st and 10 at MICH 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass incomplete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634).2nd and 10 at MICH 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass incomplete to Roy Hall (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133632).3rd and 10 at MICH 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) rush for 14 yards to the Mich 26 for a 1ST down.1st and 10 at MICH 26Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 26 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.1821Josh Huston (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=105947) extra point GOOD.1921
This drive started after Michigan kicked a FG and kicked off returned by gonzo.

Ohio State at 4:05OSUMICH1st and 10 at OSU 12Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Ted Ginn Jr for 9 yards to the OSU 21.19212nd and 1 at OSU 21Antonio Pittman (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=160722) rush for 2 yards to the OSU 23 for a 1ST down.1st and 10 at OSU 23Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass incomplete to Anthony Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146166).2nd and 10 at OSU 23Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Ted Ginn Jr for 11 yards to the OSU 34 for a 1ST down.1st and 10 at OSU 34Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Ted Ginn Jr for 6 yards to the OSU 40.2nd and 4 at OSU 40Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 7 yards to the OSU 47 for a 1ST down.1st and 10 at OSU 47Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 11 yards to the Mich 42 for a 1ST down.1st and 10 at MICH 42Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) rush for 5 yards to the Mich 37.2nd and 5 at MICH 37Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Santonio Holmes (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133634) for 6 yards to the Mich 31 for a 1ST down.1st and 10 at MICH 31Timeout OHIO ST, clock 00:47.1st and 10 at MICH 31Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) pass complete to Anthony Gonzalez (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146166) for 27 yards to the Mich 4 for a 1ST down.1st and Goal at MICH 4Timeout MICHIGAN, clock 00:37.1st and Goal at MICH 4Troy Smith (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=133648) rush for no gain to the Mich 4.2nd and Goal at MICH 4Timeout MICHIGAN, clock 00:29.2nd and Goal at MICH 4Antonio Pittman (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=160722) rush for 4 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.2521 This one the D made michigan punt but they didn't have good field postion.

Thanks for answering my question man. :thumbsup:

PeaTearGriffin
11-01-2006, 02:29 PM
Thanks for answering my question man. :thumbsup:

No problem...anyway i think smith's draft postion depends on his last two games...we'll have to see what he does against michigan and in his bowl game.

Stitches
11-01-2006, 02:32 PM
No problem...anyway i think smith's draft postion depends on his last two games...we'll have to see what he does against michigan and in his bowl game.

I still think his draft position matters more on his workouts and postseason all star games, but the last 2 games will play a large part.

weisdolphins
11-01-2006, 03:18 PM
I think he'll be a good nfl qb

djfresh47
11-03-2006, 12:16 AM
well , drew bress is 6 foot..

and we passed on him..


twice.

Their are always going to be exceptions to the rules. What puts Troy Smith ahead of Brian Brohm and Brady Quinn?

Majpain
11-03-2006, 12:18 AM
In the NFL nothing but in a realistic situation were not going to draft either of them.

nolefin
11-03-2006, 01:35 PM
ill make a prediction: once he hits the combine he will drop like a rock, he will be at best a 3rd round pick

Stitches
11-03-2006, 02:02 PM
ill make a prediction: once he hits the combine he will drop like a rock, he will be at best a 3rd round pick

Wow, that's bold. I thought I was the person who liked Smith least as an NFL Qb around here. Looks like I was wrong about that one.

Majpain
11-03-2006, 03:03 PM
ill make a prediction: once he hits the combine he will drop like a rock, he will be at best a 3rd round pick


This coming from a Nole fan :lol:

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:09 PM
What does everyone see in Brady Quinn? I must be missing something

At least with Matt Leinart he finds ways to win.....Quinn loses big games, and doesnt have amazing physical skills either.

I must really be overlooking something.....

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:10 PM
ill make a prediction: once he hits the combine he will drop like a rock, he will be at best a 3rd round pick

My counter prediction

Whoever drafts him in the third round with have an above average starting QB 2 or 3 years down the road

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-03-2006, 03:10 PM
Quinn loses big games, and doesnt have amazing physical skills either.

I must really be overlooking something.....
i think you're overlooking the TRUTH here...

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:11 PM
i think you're overlooking the TRUTH here...

Im more than open to listening to why people are so high on him.

Ive only seen him a few times but Ive never seen anything that made me say 'Wow that guys gonna be good' like I have with other players

Stitches
11-03-2006, 03:13 PM
Im more than open to listening to why people are so high on him.

Ive only seen him a few times but Ive never seen anything that made me say 'Wow that guys gonna be good' like I have with other players

You could probably read all the other Brady Quionn threads to find reasons. Or pop in the film before you go bashing someone.

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:16 PM
You could probably read all the other Brady Quionn threads to find reasons. Or pop in the film before you go bashing someone.

Im not bashing anyone

Bashing would be if I said 'Brady Quinn sucks, he will never amount to anything, anyone that thinks he will is stupid'

Im open to anything anyone has to say, I just havent seen it myself in games Ive watched thats all

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-03-2006, 03:17 PM
alex just decides not to like the most hyped QB each year.

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:20 PM
Not true :lol:

I liked Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Vince Young :wink:

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-03-2006, 03:27 PM
exactly.

Vertical Limit
11-03-2006, 03:30 PM
What does everyone see in Brady Quinn? I must be missing something

At least with Matt Leinart he finds ways to win.....Quinn loses big games, and doesnt have amazing physical skills either.

I must really be overlooking something.....
They see a guy with a 64% completion percentage average, 53 touchdowns vs just only 11 interceptions in his Junior/Senior year combined. All this in a pro style offense.

A guy with excellent pocket prescense, poise, accurancy, and has done great under pressure as well. Sure he may not have done well in a few games, but every quarterback has their off days. Matt Leinart was incredible quarterback in USC, and he will be great for the Arizona Cardinals, but he had a bunch of weapons around him that had picked up the slack for him at times.

Physical tools? You don't need to be an athletic quarterback to be a great quarterback in the NFL. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer - three of the best QB's in this league and they probably have less physical tools than Brady Quinn himself.

This guy is going to be great, and is more NFL ready than any of these other college quarterback's. Though Brohm will be a good one too, but I see him staying for his Senior year and going for the Heisman/National Championship if he doesn't get it this season. Even if he stays, I don't see him being picked first over Brady Quinn.

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:30 PM
Alex Smith is going to be good still

Carson Palmer....you cant deny him

Vince Young could still be very good.

So whats that supposed to mean?

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:33 PM
They see a guy with a 64% completion percentage average, 53 touchdowns vs just only 11 interceptions in his Junior/Senior year combined. All this in a pro style offense.

A guy with excellent pocket prescense, poise, accurancy, and has done great under pressure as well. Sure he may not have done well in a few games, but every quarterback has their off days. Matt Leinart was incredible quarterback in USC, and he will be great for the Arizona Cardinals, but he had a bunch of weapons around him that had picked up the slack for him at times.

Physical tools? You don't need to be an athletic quarterback to be a great quarterback in the NFL. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer - three of the best QB's in this league and they probably have less physical tools than Brady Quinn himself.

This guy is going to be great, and is more NFL ready than any of these quarterback's. Though Brohm will be a good one too, but I see him staying for his Senior year and going for the Heisman/National Championship if he doesn't get it this season. Even if he stays, I don't see him being picked first over Brady Quinn.

Best reply yet thanks.

By physical tools I meant more along the lines of arm strength and accuracy than other things in him. I see a guy that plays very well against mediocre teams but pretty average against good teams.

I agree he is more NFL ready than the others in this draft but that doesnt mean he will be the best long term and thats what I draft for if Im a gm (of course Im not though lol)

I was really high on him last year, but this year IMO it looks like he has taken a step back

Stitches
11-03-2006, 03:52 PM
Best reply yet thanks.

By physical tools I meant more along the lines of arm strength and accuracy than other things in him. I see a guy that plays very well against mediocre teams but pretty average against good teams.

I agree he is more NFL ready than the others in this draft but that doesnt mean he will be the best long term and thats what I draft for if Im a gm (of course Im not though lol)

I was really high on him last year, but this year IMO it looks like he has taken a step back

How can you say in your opinion "it looks like he has taken a step back," when you admitted earlier to rarely watching him play?

Alex44
11-03-2006, 03:54 PM
How can you say in your opinion "it looks like he has taken a step back," when you admitted earlier to rarely watching him play?

Because I have seen him play a couple games this year and last, and this year he hasnt looked as good

Stitches
11-03-2006, 04:02 PM
Because I have seen him play a couple games this year and last, and this year he hasnt looked as good

What, did you only watch the Michigan game this year? Because he's looked as good if not better in my opinion, in regards to his entire game, than he did last year overall.

Alex44
11-03-2006, 04:11 PM
What, did you only watch the Michigan game this year? Because he's looked as good if not better in my opinion, in regards to his entire game, than he did last year overall.

This year I saw Georgia Tech, Michigan, and another team I cant remember for some reason, it was a smaller school and he looked decent.

Stitches
11-03-2006, 04:19 PM
This year I saw Georgia Tech, Michigan, and another team I cant remember for some reason, it was a smaller school and he looked decent.

All right. Your entitled to your opinion I guess. :tongue:

DonShula84
11-03-2006, 06:51 PM
What does everyone see in Brady Quinn? I must be missing something

At least with Matt Leinart he finds ways to win.....Quinn loses big games, and doesnt have amazing physical skills either.

I must really be overlooking something.....

Good lord. What big games has Quinn lost? He drove the length of the field and gave ND the lead in probably the biggest of his life up to that point against USC. The defense cant get a stop on 4th down and yet that is Quinn losing the big game? He cant cover Ginn and Holmes in the Fiesta Bowl and he didnt do anything to lose that game. He has led more 4th quarter comebacks then probably any QB in college right now, yet he cant find away to win games? He played poorly against Michigan, 1 game in a 4 year career.

As for not having amazing physical skills, just look at him. He is built like a brick house what are you looking for?

Majpain
11-03-2006, 07:17 PM
Well to be honest Don Quinn didnt even have a TD in the Fiesta. Also before they got Weis Quinn was sub-par. Weis knew what playing style he would fit in and build around that.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-03-2006, 07:19 PM
:lol: if you google Brady Quinn, the 3rd link to come up is wikipedia's "douche" entry.

DonShula84
11-03-2006, 07:31 PM
Well to be honest Don Quinn didnt even have a TD in the Fiesta. Also before they got Weis Quinn was sub-par. Weis knew what playing style he would fit in and build around that.

Weis hasnt changed his system from NE to fit Brady. Brady just fits the system. I think every coach adopts what they do to play on the strengths of their players though, this isnt unique to Quinn and ND. All QBs develop, I mean Troy Smith wasnt the player he is today even at the beginning of last year. Even as a freshman you could see Quinn was talented and a good player it took him time to put it together like any player. Quinn didnt have a TD in the Fiesta Bowl but he did complete 65% of his passes, throw for 286 yards and not turn the ball over so he didnt lose the game for the Irish either.

Majpain
11-03-2006, 07:38 PM
Weis hasnt changed his system from NE to fit Brady. Brady just fits the system. I think every coach adopts what they do to play on the strengths of their players though, this isnt unique to Quinn and ND. All QBs develop, I mean Troy Smith wasnt the player he is today even at the beginning of last year. Even as a freshman you could see Quinn was talented and a good player it took him time to put it together like any player. Quinn didnt have a TD in the Fiesta Bowl but he did complete 65% of his passes, throw for 286 yards and not turn the ball over so he didnt lose the game for the Irish either.

I thought Weis incorprated some stuff in the ND offensive playbook? Maybe Wies was made for Quinn :wink:

DonShula84
11-03-2006, 07:43 PM
I thought Weis incorprated some stuff in the ND offensive playbook? Maybe Wies was made for Quinn :wink:

If you're asking if our offense under Weis is different than the one under Willingham the answer is yes. But I dont think Weis came in and changed what he likes to do to fit Quinn.

Majpain
11-03-2006, 07:49 PM
If you're asking if our offense under Weis is different than the one under Willingham the answer is yes. But I dont think Weis came in and changed what he likes to do to fit Quinn.

Well he did adjust it. I mean Quinn went from average to the golden boy.

DonShula84
11-03-2006, 07:56 PM
Well he did adjust it. I mean Quinn went from average to the golden boy.

He changed the offense we ran under Willingham yes. He installed his system. I dont think he changed his system though to fit Quinn. All players mature and develop though so the idea that Quinn went from average to great and it's only because of Weis and his system isnt true imo. I mean Smith wasnt even a starter at the beginning of last year, was he always this great player and Tressel just didnt give him a chance? Or has he gotten better? Why cant Quinn have just gotten better?

Pennington's Rocket Arm
11-03-2006, 08:19 PM
first of all, quinn wasn't "average" under willingham; he set pretty much every freshman and sophomore notre dame record. secondly, uhh, it makes SENSE that a QB would get better as they get more experience, right? carson palmer?

HysterikiLL
11-03-2006, 08:25 PM
Is it just me, or does every thread around here seem to morph into a debate about Brady Quinn?

DonShula84
11-03-2006, 08:29 PM
Is it just me, or does every thread around here seem to morph into a debate about Brady Quinn?

Don't blame me :hide:

HysterikiLL
11-03-2006, 11:02 PM
Don't blame me :hide:

:lol: