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View Full Version : Monster? Honorable? Just plain stupid? Strange story...



TVs Soupy Sales
11-14-2006, 08:57 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/14/amends.plea.ap/index.html

Long story short: 22 years ago a frat boy rapes a 17 yr old girl. Later he's going through the AA 12 step program and contacted the victim to apologize and try to make amends. The victim eventually turns the apology letter and subsequent email correspondence over to the police as evidence of the rape. The guy is arrested, pleads guilty, and agrees to a 2 year prison term.

Here's where it gets dicey from a philosophical standpoint: The guy deserves punishment for his crime. However, it appears he may be a better person now than he was when he committed the crime. People sometimes come out of prison worse than they were when they went in. I think this is particularly true when the person isn't completely bad when they go in (there is much anecdotal evidence to confirm this).

I can't say for sure that this guy really is reformed at this point. I can't say for sure that if he is, he will come out of prison a bad guy again. But what worries me is that it is a distinct possibility that both of those things are true.

King Nate
11-14-2006, 09:41 PM
Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.

Nappy Roots
11-14-2006, 09:58 PM
Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.


100% the truth.

Silverphin
11-14-2006, 10:01 PM
Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.

True.

Mike13
11-15-2006, 01:27 AM
He only got 2 years.:shakeno:

Agent51
11-15-2006, 10:08 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/14/amends.plea.ap/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/11/14/amends.plea.ap/index.html)

Long story short: 22 years ago a frat boy rapes a 17 yr old girl. Later he's going through the AA 12 step program and contacted the victim to apologize and try to make amends. The victim eventually turns the apology letter and subsequent email correspondence over to the police as evidence of the rape. The guy is arrested, pleads guilty, and agrees to a 2 year prison term.

Here's where it gets dicey from a philosophical standpoint: The guy deserves punishment for his crime. However, it appears he may be a better person now than he was when he committed the crime. People sometimes come out of prison worse than they were when they went in. I think this is particularly true when the person isn't completely bad when they go in (there is much anecdotal evidence to confirm this).

I can't say for sure that this guy really is reformed at this point. I can't say for sure that if he is, he will come out of prison a bad guy again. But what worries me is that it is a distinct possibility that both of those things are true.

IDK if I agree that he shouldn't be punished for the rape, that's a bit far-fetched to me, but I COMPLETELY agree with you that people who go to prison and weren't that bad in the first place come out completely different and worse.

I have a friend who awhile back used to design hacking programs and do all sorts of stuff with computers, just to see if he could, never with bad intentions. Well, he ended up breaking into the computers at MIT and the pentagon, lol. He got raided by the FBI and long story short he went to prison for a couple years. When he went in he was just a normal dude. He liked computers and was just really laid back. When he came out he had this new facisnation with scamming people and basically making money any way he could without actually working legit jobs, or if he DID work legit jobs he would steal from the job and sell the merchandise to friends or on eBay. He also had a completely different demeanor. He became obsessed with weight-lifting/working out and he went from chill and laid-back to really aggressive and took on an almost "meathead" attitude, where everytime we would drink or party he would end up wanting to fight people.

I remember one night we partied at his place with a bunch of people then me, him, and our friend Chris went downtown to check out all the tourists (while everyone was still partying in his house, lol). Well, it was like 2am so it was COMPLETELY dead and then we saw this group of kids with a video camera. It was literally only us 3 and that group of maybe 15 guys (they were around our age, I was 19 at the time) downtown. Well, he sees them across the street and goes "lets go fight them" and me and Chris are like "no, that's a REALLY bad idea", but it was too late, he already started crossing the street. Now, I'm not afraid to fight or anything, if I have to throw down I will, but I'm not the type of person that walks around and randomly starts fights with people, and this one was just bad news from the get-go because no matter HOW good a fighter you are, 3 vs 15 is never going to work in your favor. So he walks right up to the kid with the camcorder and just smacks it out of his hand. Then he picks the biggest dude and challenges him to a fight. The whole time me and Chris are apologizing for him and all the guys were like "you better take your friend before he gets killed". It was too late though, the big dude already agreed to fight him on camera, and he got his *** kicked (my friend, not the big dude), and I wanted so bad to jump in and help, but it was his fight, and it was a fair fight, it was one on one, its not liek the other kids were jumping in too, and if I had jumped in it WOULD have started a big brawl.

So anyway, he gets the crap beat out of him, then a cop starts driving toward us, so we get out of there and Sean is bleeding from the ear pretty bad. The whole way back to his houase he is screaming that he is getting a knife and going back to stab them. We get to his place and he grabs a shirt and presses it to his ear and passes out. The next AM we all wake up and his ear is split WIDE open. He ended up with 9 stitches. Every night after that for like 2 weeks he was downtown looking for the guys to stab them, and it only got worse when he found out they were showing the tape around town to all their friends. He never did find them, but he would have NEVER done anything liek that before prison, he was always the voice of reason whenever one of us were heated about something, now suddenly he always wants to fight and stab people when it gets bad and steal/scam all the time. I don't really talk to him anymore because he is such a different person, I haven't talked to him in about a year, but last time I did he was taking steroids to get big, and I didn't really approve, but he was my friend so I didn't really say much besides "you shouldn't mess with that stuff". Then the 'roid rage started icking in REALLY bad, and that's when I distanced myself from him.

Anyway, the whole point of that story was to agree witht he fact that people who go to prison who weren't already "career criminals" DEFINATELY come out a different person and with a different mentality.

TVs Soupy Sales
11-15-2006, 11:08 AM
IDK if I agree that he shouldn't be punished for the rape, that's a bit far-fetched to me, but I COMPLETELY agree with you that people who go to prison and weren't that bad in the first place come out completely different and worse.

I never said that he "shouldn't be punished for the rape." In fact, I clearly stated the exact opposite. He did the crime, he has to do the time. That's justice.

My point was, and remains, that in this particular case "justice" will be done but to the (likely) detriment to society.


I have a friend who awhile back used to design hacking programs and do all sorts of stuff with computers, just to see if he could, never with bad intentions. Well, he ended up breaking into the computers at MIT and the pentagon, lol. He got raided by the FBI and long story short he went to prison for a couple years. When he went in he was just a normal dude. He liked computers and was just really laid back. When he came out he had this new facisnation with scamming people and basically making money any way he could without actually working legit jobs, or if he DID work legit jobs he would steal from the job and sell the merchandise to friends or on eBay. He also had a completely different demeanor. He became obsessed with weight-lifting/working out and he went from chill and laid-back to really aggressive and took on an almost "meathead" attitude, where everytime we would drink or party he would end up wanting to fight people.

I remember one night we partied at his place with a bunch of people then me, him, and our friend Chris went downtown to check out all the tourists (while everyone was still partying in his house, lol). Well, it was like 2am so it was COMPLETELY dead and then we saw this group of kids with a video camera. It was literally only us 3 and that group of maybe 15 guys (they were around our age, I was 19 at the time) downtown. Well, he sees them across the street and goes "lets go fight them" and me and Chris are like "no, that's a REALLY bad idea", but it was too late, he already started crossing the street. Now, I'm not afraid to fight or anything, if I have to throw down I will, but I'm not the type of person that walks around and randomly starts fights with people, and this one was just bad news from the get-go because no matter HOW good a fighter you are, 3 vs 15 is never going to work in your favor. So he walks right up to the kid with the camcorder and just smacks it out of his hand. Then he picks the biggest dude and challenges him to a fight. The whole time me and Chris are apologizing for him and all the guys were like "you better take your friend before he gets killed". It was too late though, the big dude already agreed to fight him on camera, and he got his *** kicked (my friend, not the big dude), and I wanted so bad to jump in and help, but it was his fight, and it was a fair fight, it was one on one, its not liek the other kids were jumping in too, and if I had jumped in it WOULD have started a big brawl.

So anyway, he gets the crap beat out of him, then a cop starts driving toward us, so we get out of there and Sean is bleeding from the ear pretty bad. The whole way back to his houase he is screaming that he is getting a knife and going back to stab them. We get to his place and he grabs a shirt and presses it to his ear and passes out. The next AM we all wake up and his ear is split WIDE open. He ended up with 9 stitches. Every night after that for like 2 weeks he was downtown looking for the guys to stab them, and it only got worse when he found out they were showing the tape around town to all their friends. He never did find them, but he would have NEVER done anything liek that before prison, he was always the voice of reason whenever one of us were heated about something, now suddenly he always wants to fight and stab people when it gets bad and steal/scam all the time. I don't really talk to him anymore because he is such a different person, I haven't talked to him in about a year, but last time I did he was taking steroids to get big, and I didn't really approve, but he was my friend so I didn't really say much besides "you shouldn't mess with that stuff". Then the 'roid rage started icking in REALLY bad, and that's when I distanced myself from him.

Anyway, the whole point of that story was to agree witht he fact that people who go to prison who weren't already "career criminals" DEFINATELY come out a different person and with a different mentality.

I have seen this time and again. I have long since dropped the pretense that prison is a place where people who have done bad things are sent to be "reformed."

SpurzN703
11-15-2006, 12:19 PM
Um...he was in a 12 step program for drinking and that somehow relates to him being reformed as a rapist? The only thing you should be concerned about in this case is that he only got 2 years. Screw that guy.

Well hey, least that's 2 years of him getting raped in prison right? :lol:

retired opfinistic
11-15-2006, 01:28 PM
sad story 51.

Agent51
11-15-2006, 01:36 PM
I never said that he "shouldn't be punished for the rape." In fact, I clearly stated the exact opposite. He did the crime, he has to do the time. That's justice.

My point was, and remains, that in this particular case "justice" will be done but to the (likely) detriment to society.


I guess I misread what you wrote. I thought you were saying that, while he did the crime, it was years ago and he seems like a better person now thus shouldn't be punished, but I re-read it and now I see that you meant this is a case where it seems like he turned his life around and, even though he deserves to be punished, this is a case where the punishment while prbably hurt more than help, in which case I totally agree.

Motion
11-15-2006, 01:38 PM
sad story 51.

:yeahthat:

Thats crazy!

Timmy54
11-15-2006, 02:18 PM
anyone else think it is bad nobody tried to get him before he admited to it. if that were true of all crime, are jails would have 4 people in them.