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Agent51
11-27-2006, 11:05 AM
I'm wondering what everyone sees in this kid? Not people on these boards necessarily, but just people in general, and the "experts". During the game the announcers were saying he is a possible first rounder, but honestly, I haven't seen him do a thing this year. I've watched quite a few Notre Dame games this season, and not once have I seen him do anything worthy of a first round choice. Hell, I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a first DAY choice.

Take the USC game for example. I don't think I even saw him make a tackle, and everytime I saw him, he was either getting beat or way out of position and looking confused or taking bad angles and missing tackles. I was purposely watching him all game just because it seems like as the season goes on he gets more hyped and I wanted to see if it was justified, since I never see him in highlights of the ND games. I wonder if his name would even be mentioned if he didn't happen to be a "pro" boxer too :rolleyes2

Anyone else have anyone that is way overrated?

bakedmatt
11-27-2006, 11:33 AM
I'm wondering what everyone sees in this kid? Not people on these boards necessarily, but just people in general, and the "experts". During the game the announcers were saying he is a possible first rounder, but honestly, I haven't seen him do a thing this year. I've watched quite a few Notre Dame games this season, and not once have I seen him do anything worthy of a first round choice. Hell, I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a first DAY choice.

Take the USC game for example. I don't think I even saw him make a tackle, and everytime I saw him, he was either getting beat or way out of position and looking confused or taking bad angles and missing tackles. I was purposely watching him all game just because it seems like as the season goes on he gets more hyped and I wanted to see if it was justified, since I never see him in highlights of the ND games. I wonder if his name would even be mentioned if he didn't happen to be a "pro" boxer too :rolleyes2

Anyone else have anyone that is way overrated?

I don't think any part of the ND DEFENSE appears worthy of a first round pick. That lot stinks.

Pocoloco
11-27-2006, 11:50 AM
I am also confused as to why he is considered a first-rounder. In a secondary that bad, he still fails to stand out regularly. He's a physical guy and a pretty good returner, but that isn't enough.

On a similar thought.. Landry from LSU is widely acknowledged to be a top 10 type guy, I haven't seen a whole lot that makes me think he deserves it. There's been several LSU games on this year, and he is almost always getting bowled over by someone. He is smart and gets in good position, but has trouble finishing tackles.

IrishFinatic
11-27-2006, 12:05 PM
I'm wondering what everyone sees in this kid? Not people on these boards necessarily, but just people in general, and the "experts". During the game the announcers were saying he is a possible first rounder, but honestly, I haven't seen him do a thing this year. I've watched quite a few Notre Dame games this season, and not once have I seen him do anything worthy of a first round choice. Hell, I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a first DAY choice.

Take the USC game for example. I don't think I even saw him make a tackle, and everytime I saw him, he was either getting beat or way out of position and looking confused or taking bad angles and missing tackles. I was purposely watching him all game just because it seems like as the season goes on he gets more hyped and I wanted to see if it was justified, since I never see him in highlights of the ND games. I wonder if his name would even be mentioned if he didn't happen to be a "pro" boxer too :rolleyes2

Anyone else have anyone that is way overrated?


Agent, as a avid Irish fan, I couldn't agree more. I don't know where the experts think he is even a 3rd round talent. He should be playing running back or linebacker at ND. Big hitter but if the receiver is behind you every time, what good is it.

endorPHINS72
11-27-2006, 12:43 PM
I'm wondering what everyone sees in this kid? Not people on these boards necessarily, but just people in general, and the "experts". During the game the announcers were saying he is a possible first rounder, but honestly, I haven't seen him do a thing this year. I've watched quite a few Notre Dame games this season, and not once have I seen him do anything worthy of a first round choice. Hell, I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a first DAY choice.

Take the USC game for example. I don't think I even saw him make a tackle, and everytime I saw him, he was either getting beat or way out of position and looking confused or taking bad angles and missing tackles. I was purposely watching him all game just because it seems like as the season goes on he gets more hyped and I wanted to see if it was justified, since I never see him in highlights of the ND games. I wonder if his name would even be mentioned if he didn't happen to be a "pro" boxer too :rolleyes2

Anyone else have anyone that is way overrated?

I really don't care about what round Tom Zbikowski gets drafted in. He didn't have a great game against USC, but most defenses that play USC don't have great games.

Zbikowski is a playmaker, and probably like Sammy Knight, he will pegged as being too slow for the NFL. But the guy hits like a ton of bricks and has the heart of a lion.

He's also a very good punt returner (he had a punt return for a TD against USC last season).

FinIowa85
11-27-2006, 12:47 PM
He was a stud quarterback in high school and was highly touted coming into college. He's not getting publicity because he's a boxer, it's because he's a good athlete. He played a lot better last year, but I think people just are disappointed with Notre Dame because they had such high expectations this year. He is a good athlete though, so don't think he isn't good.

endorPHINS72
11-27-2006, 12:57 PM
I'd have to say one of my picks for an overrrated player in the upcoming draft is Tim Crowder, DE, Texas. He is 6'4 and 270 lbs., which is a little light to be a full-time DE in the pros.

One of the biggest concerns is this year is his highest sack total, which is 9.5 sacks. The highest he had before this year is 3.5. With Texas playing teams like Sam Houston State, North Texas and Rice, you'd think he could pad his stats a little better than that.

I just don't see this young man as anything but a situational pass-rusher in the pros, and therfore undeserving of being called a potential 1st round pick as some have touted him as.

ChambersWI
11-27-2006, 01:00 PM
Zbikowski has had a lackluster season, but is still leaning towards coming out.

Right now he's a 3rd to 4th round pick.

I was never overly impressed with him as a SS, but I'm impressed with his returnin game (not overly fast, but strong and hard to bring down).

I'd also put Quinn Pitcock for Ohio State in the overrated catagory.. in a way. If he's picked in the 2nd or 3rd round, he'll be a good rotation player. But if he's a first round pick, he'll be viewed as a bust.

FinIowa85
11-27-2006, 01:11 PM
I'd have to say one of my picks for an overrrated player in the upcoming draft is Tim Crowder, DE, Texas. He is 6'4 and 270 lbs., which is a little light to be a full-time DE in the pros.

One of the biggest concerns is this year is his highest sack total, which is 9.5 sacks. The highest he had before this year is 3.5. With Texas playing teams like Sam Houston State, North Texas and Rice, you'd think he could pad his stats a little better than that.

I just don't see this young man as anything but a situational pass-rusher in the pros, and therfore undeserving of being called a potential 1st round pick as some have touted him as.

First of all, Crowder is not overrated. 6'4, 270 is not too light to play in the NFL.....Jason Taylor is lighter than that, Matt Roth was that weight coming out of college, 10 pounds would be easy to put on. So you're wrong there.
9.5 sacks is a good total, doesn't matter who they've played, and 3.5 being his best total before this year doesn't matter either, sometimes players don't find their comfort level until late in their college careers. Your arguments just aren't valid, I had to respond when reading something like this.

endorPHINS72
11-27-2006, 01:44 PM
First of all, Crowder is not overrated. 6'4, 270 is not too light to play in the NFL.....Jason Taylor is lighter than that, Matt Roth was that weight coming out of college, 10 pounds would be easy to put on. So you're wrong there.
9.5 sacks is a good total, doesn't matter who they've played, and 3.5 being his best total before this year doesn't matter either, sometimes players don't find their comfort level until late in their college careers. Your arguments just aren't valid, I had to respond when reading something like this.

Ok, making any comparisons to Jason Taylor, no matter how distant, is just absurd. Jason Taylor is a freak of nature. He's probably closer to 250 lbs., but can play the run and rush the passer equally well. Most DE's in the 270 lbs. range will struggle when going up against good tackles in the 330 lbs. range.

And as for Matt Roth, he wasn't a first round pick and it has taken him a year to put on the weight and strength needed to play DE in the pros.

And it is relevant that his highest sack total before this year is 3.5. Yes, you are right that some players come on strong late in their college careers. But more often, they just have a good year. How many guys were undeservingly drafted in the 1st round based upon having a good senior season? Far too many unfortunately.

I'm not saying that the young man won't be a good player. I'm just saying he seems overrated to be considered high middle first round pick.

So while you may disagree with what I have written, my points are valid.

dolphan98
11-27-2006, 01:48 PM
I am also confused as to why he is considered a first-rounder. In a secondary that bad, he still fails to stand out regularly. He's a physical guy and a pretty good returner, but that isn't enough.

On a similar thought.. Landry from LSU is widely acknowledged to be a top 10 type guy, I haven't seen a whole lot that makes me think he deserves it. There's been several LSU games on this year, and he is almost always getting bowled over by someone. He is smart and gets in good position, but has trouble finishing tackles.

You probably haven't seen Landry enough to make a complete assessment but you do make some good points. You probably saw him get taken for a ride by the Gators back up QB Timbo but Timbo is as powerful as almost any back in the NCAA. Landry is a fast, ballhawking, smart player that has the tools to be a pro bowl safety in this league. But he will have to get a lot stronger. He can come up and stuff the run at the college level, at least against smaller backs, but I really question if he can do it in the NFL. Personally, I wouldn't pick him inside the top 10 but if I'm the Dolphins and I'm picking at around 18, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. I think he could really help our pass coverage.

dolphan98
11-27-2006, 01:56 PM
Ok, making any comparisons to Jason Taylor, no matter how distant, is just absurd. Jason Taylor is a freak of nature. He's probably closer to 250 lbs., but can play the run and rush the passer equally well. Most DE's in the 270 lbs. range will struggle when going up against good tackles in the 330 lbs. range.

And as for Matt Roth, he wasn't a first round pick and it has taken him a year to put on the weight and strength needed to play DE in the pros.

And it is relevant that his highest sack total before this year is 3.5. Yes, you are right that some players come on strong late in their college careers. But more often, they just have a good year. How many guys were undeservingly drafted in the 1st round based upon having a good senior season? Far too many unfortunately.

I'm not saying that the young man won't be a good player. I'm just saying he seems overrated to be considered high middle first round pick.

So while you may disagree with what I have written, my points are valid.

While I agree that he may not warrant a mid-first round selection, I would not be opposed to picking him in the beginning of the second round. As for 270 pounds being too light for a DE coming out of college, I have to disagree with that. I think you need to evaluate a player's weight on a case by case basis. Look to a player's body structure; if he has the frame to add weight without sacrificing speed then 270 pounds is certainly not too light.

alopez34
11-27-2006, 03:25 PM
chris leak tops my overated list

ChambersWI
11-27-2006, 03:27 PM
chris leak tops my overated list


well he's not considered a day 1 pick so I wouldn't say he's highly rated

arsenal
11-27-2006, 04:01 PM
i love zbikowski... i think he does have enough speed to be a safety and i think could be an impact playmaker in the right situation... hes instinctive, quick, and a punishing hitter...

but i haven't seen much of him this year, this is mostly based on what i saw of him last year... if hes having an off year thats fine, i would love for the dolphins to grab him in like the 3rd round if he fell there...

AMfinfan9
11-27-2006, 04:12 PM
Zbikowski missed a few games this year because of injuries

NJL52
11-27-2006, 04:16 PM
I'm wondering what everyone sees in this kid? Not people on these boards necessarily, but just people in general, and the "experts". During the game the announcers were saying he is a possible first rounder, but honestly, I haven't seen him do a thing this year. I've watched quite a few Notre Dame games this season, and not once have I seen him do anything worthy of a first round choice. Hell, I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a first DAY choice.

Take the USC game for example. I don't think I even saw him make a tackle, and everytime I saw him, he was either getting beat or way out of position and looking confused or taking bad angles and missing tackles. I was purposely watching him all game just because it seems like as the season goes on he gets more hyped and I wanted to see if it was justified, since I never see him in highlights of the ND games. I wonder if his name would even be mentioned if he didn't happen to be a "pro" boxer too :rolleyes2

Anyone else have anyone that is way overrated?

He is from ND, the whole damn team is overrated. They are the media darlings of the world. An good player for ND is advertised as great.

johngarry
11-27-2006, 04:20 PM
zbikowski overrated?!?...cool...bet you wouldn't say that to his face.

NJL52
11-27-2006, 04:24 PM
zbikowski overrated?!?...cool...bet you wouldn't say that to his face.

Middle school all over again....

IrishFinatic
11-27-2006, 04:42 PM
i love zbikowski... i think he does have enough speed to be a safety and i think could be an impact playmaker in the right situation... hes instinctive, quick, and a punishing hitter...

but i haven't seen much of him this year, this is mostly based on what i saw of him last year... if hes having an off year thats fine, i would love for the dolphins to grab him in like the 3rd round if he fell there...

There is alot to love about Tommy Z. He has the speed and the heart no doubt. Most importantly, he is a great kid. However, he lacks instinct as a safety. He bites on play action every time. Whenever there is a long play, it's always him out of position. ND has another safety much slower than him Chinedum Ndukwe who is a much better playmaker because he is always in position. I would be surprised if he comes out this year.

endorPHINS72
11-27-2006, 05:48 PM
He is from ND, the whole damn team is overrated. They are the media darlings of the world. An good player for ND is advertised as great.

Oh give me a break! A few years ago, the Miami Hurricanes were the media darlings of the world. Tom Zbikowski is a true tough guy and makes plays...period.

Notre Dame has a very good offense, but for the most part, they can't go toe to toe defensively with the Top 5 teams in the country for now. That will change once Charlie Weis gets a few more years of recruiting under his belt. Almost the entire defense he has now are Tyrone Willingham's recruits.

DonShula84
11-27-2006, 06:33 PM
He was very good last year, on defense and as a return man. He has been very very disappointing this season though.

Agent51
11-28-2006, 03:03 PM
He was a stud quarterback in high school and was highly touted coming into college. He's not getting publicity because he's a boxer, it's because he's a good athlete. He played a lot better last year, but I think people just are disappointed with Notre Dame because they had such high expectations this year. He is a good athlete though, so don't think he isn't good.

I know he isn't getting the high draft looks because he is a boxer, but it seems like the only things I have heard about him his season revolve around his boxing career. I didn't really have high hopes for ND, I'm a Longhorns fan, so I was having high hopes for my team and low hopes for everyone else, lol, but at the same time I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a 1st round choice this year. I'm not saying he isn't a punishing hitter or a good athlete and punt returner, I'm just saying his play this year does NOT look like 1st round play to me. Nobody gets drafted on potential, they get drafted on performance, which is why a lot of times people shoot up draft boards, because they have a breakout streak of games that is more a fluke than anything (Mario Williams is the most recent example). The problem I have seen with Tom is that he hasn't been in position to make those punishing hits often, and it wasn't JUST the USC game, I just used it because it was the most recent example. You can be the hardest hitter in the world, but if you're never in position to make the hits then you are pretty useless, and especially not a 1st round round. I have nothing against the guy, I'm just questioning the 1st round projection.


zbikowski overrated?!?...cool...bet you wouldn't say that to his face.

:rolleyes2

Motion
11-28-2006, 03:08 PM
chris leak tops my overated list

:lol: How can a 2nd day pick be overrated?

He has no hype for the draft, everyone knows he's too short.

The Confessor
11-28-2006, 03:14 PM
One thing to keep in mind. University Of New Mexico also had a "Large" safety a few years back. The nack on him was he was getting beat deep, and was caught out of position too much.

Well, the Bears took a chance, and now he plays Middle Linebacker for them.

Not saying that Tom Z is the next Urlacher, or that he is worthy of a number one pick, but being an excellent athlete, and being put in the right situation will get you far in this league.
Heck, Tom Brady isnt even a good athlete and look how he is doing in his scheme.

Agent51
11-28-2006, 03:28 PM
One thing to keep in mind. University Of New Mexico also had a "Large" safety a few years back. The nack on him was he was getting beat deep, and was caught out of position too much.

Well, the Bears took a chance, and now he plays Middle Linebacker for them.

Not saying that Tom Z is the next Urlacher, or that he is worthy of a number one pick, but being an excellent athlete, and being put in the right situation will get you far in this league.
Heck, Tom Brady isnt even a good athlete and look how he is doing in his scheme.

I definately agree with the athlete being in the right situation thing, but that's not really my point here. I'm not saying Tom won't do good at SOME position in the NFL, I'm just saying he isn't show 1st round skills and gameplay this year. Tom Brady is a great (:barf:) example of hard work making you a great player in the NFL when it didn't look like you would transfer over well, but Tom was also taken in round 6, not round 1

The Confessor
11-28-2006, 03:40 PM
I definately agree with the athlete being in the right situation thing, but that's not really my point here. I'm not saying Tom won't do good at SOME position in the NFL, I'm just saying he isn't show 1st round skills and gameplay this year. Tom Brady is a great (:barf:) example of hard work making you a great player in the NFL when it didn't look like you would transfer over well, but Tom was also taken in round 6, not round 1

Good point on Brady, and I am in full agreement about the hard work thing. IF Zbikowski makes it to the second round, I think we found a nice 3-4 backer or an excellent WSLB, but wouldnt take the guy in the first round...no way.

Crowder52
11-28-2006, 03:45 PM
I know he isn't getting the high draft looks because he is a boxer, but it seems like the only things I have heard about him his season revolve around his boxing career. I didn't really have high hopes for ND, I'm a Longhorns fan, so I was having high hopes for my team and low hopes for everyone else, lol, but at the same time I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a 1st round choice this year. I'm not saying he isn't a punishing hitter or a good athlete and punt returner, I'm just saying his play this year does NOT look like 1st round play to me. Nobody gets drafted on potential, they get drafted on performance, which is why a lot of times people shoot up draft boards, because they have a breakout streak of games that is more a fluke than anything (Mario Williams is the most recent example). The problem I have seen with Tom is that he hasn't been in position to make those punishing hits often, and it wasn't JUST the USC game, I just used it because it was the most recent example. You can be the hardest hitter in the world, but if you're never in position to make the hits then you are pretty useless, and especially not a 1st round round. I have nothing against the guy, I'm just questioning the 1st round projection.



:rolleyes2

Well that's a misconception if I've ever seen one.

Alex44
11-28-2006, 03:52 PM
My #1 over rated is Ginn Jr.

The guy can fly...but thats all he really does, run away from people and that doesnt really work in the NFL (Unless your name is Randy Moss)

I couldnt take him in the first round....definitly the second but not early first.

He reminds me of Randle El (without the passing ability) or Santonio Holmes (neither of which Im sold on as a #1 WR)

Agent51
12-01-2006, 09:19 AM
Well that's a misconception if I've ever seen one.

I'm talking in terms of first round picks, and in terms of college performance. I don't know of many people that don't perform in college and go in round one. Of course some of those college studs go in round one and become busts, and DON'T perform, but my point was a player who doesn't do much in college but "shows potential" doesn't go in round one, those are the guys you "take a chance on" in later rounds but first rounders are usually the high performers from college who coaches/GMs assume will carry that over to the NFL. I players were drafted in round one on just potential, then Maurice Clarett would have been a first rounder, among MANY others.

Crowder52
12-01-2006, 12:16 PM
I'm talking in terms of first round picks, and in terms of college performance. I don't know of many people that don't perform in college and go in round one. Of course some of those college studs go in round one and become busts, and DON'T perform, but my point was a player who doesn't do much in college but "shows potential" doesn't go in round one, those are the guys you "take a chance on" in later rounds but first rounders are usually the high performers from college who coaches/GMs assume will carry that over to the NFL. I players were drafted in round one on just potential, then Maurice Clarett would have been a first rounder, among MANY others.

Just to use the last two drafts alone, Matt Jones (2005) was drafted in the first as a WR despite never having played a down at that position, and Antonio Cromartie (2006) was drafted in the first despite having only 1 college start in his career.

my 2 cents
12-01-2006, 05:00 PM
I'm wondering what everyone sees in this kid? Not people on these boards necessarily, but just people in general, and the "experts". During the game the announcers were saying he is a possible first rounder, but honestly, I haven't seen him do a thing this year. I've watched quite a few Notre Dame games this season, and not once have I seen him do anything worthy of a first round choice. Hell, I haven't seen him do anything worthy of a first DAY choice.

Take the USC game for example. I don't think I even saw him make a tackle, and everytime I saw him, he was either getting beat or way out of position and looking confused or taking bad angles and missing tackles. I was purposely watching him all game just because it seems like as the season goes on he gets more hyped and I wanted to see if it was justified, since I never see him in highlights of the ND games. I wonder if his name would even be mentioned if he didn't happen to be a "pro" boxer too :rolleyes2

Anyone else have anyone that is way overrated?

Ted Ginn
Brady Quinn
Quinn Pitcock
LaRon Landry
Paul Posusnzy
Marshawn Lynch
Troy Smith

Underated IMHO
Gaines Adams/Calvin Johnson...I'd take either at #1
Reggie Nelson
Antoine Cason
Buster Davis
Justin Blalock
Matt Munsey
Kevin Kolb
Selvyn Young
Brian Leonard
Matt Trannon
Jesse Holley
Mike Walker
Brian Smith
Kareem Brown
Brian Toal
Abe Brown
David Overstreet


IMHO......

DonShula84
12-02-2006, 12:39 AM
How can Calvin Johnson be underrated when everyone in the world says he's the best WR in college and a potential #1 overall pick?

As for Zbikowski there is a chance he'll return to ND, and after his performance this season he should.

HysterikiLL
12-02-2006, 03:31 AM
How can Calvin Johnson be underrated when everyone in the world says he's the best WR in college and a potential #1 overall pick?

As for Zbikowski there is a chance he'll return to ND, and after his performance this season he should.

I like Zib. Being a Bears fan, I love Chicago football in general. Punch-in-the-mouth football. Zib is from Chicago and lives and breathes that football. I'd love to see him on the Bears one day.

But Shu, how can he return next year? :confused:

DonShula84
12-02-2006, 04:50 AM
I like Zib. Being a Bears fan, I love Chicago football in general. Punch-in-the-mouth football. Zib is from Chicago and lives and breathes that football. I'd love to see him on the Bears one day.

But Shu, how can he return next year? :confused:

I believe he is eligible to be a 5th year senior if he applies for it.

Agent51
12-02-2006, 10:27 AM
Just to use the last two drafts alone, Matt Jones (2005) was drafted in the first as a WR despite never having played a down at that position, and Antonio Cromartie (2006) was drafted in the first despite having only 1 college start in his career.

Matt Jones did perform in college though. Even though he was a QB he still did a lot of running and even caught passes, so the team pretty much knew he was a multi-position athlete, but even so, look how he has worked out, not so good. I don't agree with taking either of them in round 1, for that very reason. Matt hasn't done anything, and I haven't heard Cromarties name since the draft, so either I am completely not paying attention, or he isn't doing much either

Agent51
12-02-2006, 10:31 AM
How can Calvin Johnson be underrated when everyone in the world says he's the best WR in college and a potential #1 overall pick?
.

I was thinking that exact same thing when I saw the post.


I like Zib. Being a Bears fan, I love Chicago football in general. Punch-in-the-mouth football. Zib is from Chicago and lives and breathes that football. I'd love to see him on the Bears one day.


I like that style of play too, and I thin Tom is an athlete and can play the physical style, but what I'm saying is I don't know why everyone is raving about him being a first round pick when every ND game I have seen this year most of his face time comes from punt returns, he goes virtually unnoticed on defense unless you see him getting beat BAD or running to try and make a play from way out of position (the USC game being the most recent example).

Crowder52
12-02-2006, 01:34 PM
Matt Jones did perform in college though. Even though he was a QB he still did a lot of running and even caught passes, so the team pretty much knew he was a multi-position athlete, but even so, look how he has worked out, not so good. I don't agree with taking either of them in round 1, for that very reason. Matt hasn't done anything, and I haven't heard Cromarties name since the draft, so either I am completely not paying attention, or he isn't doing much either

You said "nobody gets drafted based on potential, it's based on performance." If that was true then Matt Jones and Cromartie would not have been taken in the first round. Whether you agree with where they are drafted or not is irrelevant. They were both drafted based on an extremely small body of work at their respective NFL positions due to their potential.

You can't tell me catching a few passes or running a few QB sweeps meets your definition of "performance." You also ignored Cromartie's lack of college performance.

Caps
12-02-2006, 02:03 PM
Zbikowski is garbage in coverage, the only future he has in the NFL is bulking up and landing on a small-D team like Indy as a LB, or being a full-time special teamer IMO.

my 2 cents
12-04-2006, 05:13 PM
I was thinking that exact same thing when I saw the post.
.

Not only would I pick him number 1...I would trade picks to get him.....i think the guy is that good.

Agent51
12-06-2006, 09:40 AM
You said "nobody gets drafted based on potential, it's based on performance." If that was true then Matt Jones and Cromartie would not have been taken in the first round. Whether you agree with where they are drafted or not is irrelevant. They were both drafted based on an extremely small body of work at their respective NFL positions due to their potential.

You can't tell me catching a few passes or running a few QB sweeps meets your definition of "performance." You also ignored Cromartie's lack of college performance.

OK, there will always be examples to the contrary, but the GENERAL rule, the one followed 99% of the time, is that first round picks are performers, not potential performers. I didn't ignore Cromartie's lack of performance, and it DOES matter where I "thought they should go", because those two choices WEREN'T the norm for first round choices, they were mistakes by their team. It doesn't happen all the time, it happens when some players have a great combine or get overrated by the staff, like in their case. Of course there will be times where you can find examples of people going based on potential, but is it the majprity of them? No, the majority of 1st rounders (and I mean BIG majority, as the "potential" picks don't happen too often in round 1) are the performers.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
12-07-2006, 09:41 AM
zbikowski is one of those guys that, while overrated, i just can't see NOT succeeding in the NFL. he's just so talented as a pure football player.

Martel
12-12-2006, 05:00 AM
zbikowski is one of those guys that, while overrated, i just can't see NOT succeeding in the NFL. he's just so talented as a pure football player.


Tommy Z. could have a boxing career. He can really punch with two hands. He would have to bulk up a little, he fought at 210 earlier this year.

Also I didn't read the whole thread so this may have already been thrown out there - but what about at MLB?? He seems like the perfect guy to convert to a middle linebacker.

DonShula84
12-12-2006, 06:26 AM
Tommy Z. could have a boxing career. He can really punch with two hands. He would have to bulk up a little, he fought at 210 earlier this year.

Also I didn't read the whole thread so this may have already been thrown out there - but what about at MLB?? He seems like the perfect guy to convert to a middle linebacker.

He's only around 5'11'' so he'd be pretty small for a LB. Also people now expect him to announce that he's leaving ND after the Sugar Bowl.

Alex44
12-12-2006, 06:32 AM
He's only around 5'11'' so he'd be pretty small for a LB. Also people now expect him to announce that he's leaving ND after the Sugar Bowl.

He should probably stay at ND....he didnt really have a great year and could improve his draft status a lot with a good one next year.

jim1
12-15-2006, 03:34 PM
Ok, making any comparisons to Jason Taylor, no matter how distant, is just absurd. Jason Taylor is a freak of nature. He's probably closer to 250 lbs., but can play the run and rush the passer equally well. Most DE's in the 270 lbs. range will struggle when going up against good tackles in the 330 lbs. range.

And as for Matt Roth, he wasn't a first round pick and it has taken him a year to put on the weight and strength needed to play DE in the pros.

And it is relevant that his highest sack total before this year is 3.5. Yes, you are right that some players come on strong late in their college careers. But more often, they just have a good year. How many guys were undeservingly drafted in the 1st round based upon having a good senior season? Far too many unfortunately.

I'm not saying that the young man won't be a good player. I'm just saying he seems overrated to be considered high middle first round pick.

So while you may disagree with what I have written, my points are valid.

Taylor apparently weighed in at 237.5 lbs. last week. I was amazed by that.