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View Full Version : Culpepper attends practice today(Nov 29)



dolphan13
11-29-2006, 09:04 PM
Nov 29 Miami Dolphins QB Daunte Culpepper (knee) attended practice Wednesday, Nov. 29, but is out for Week 13. :D http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/06/kffl_88x31-1.gif (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/sports/kffl/SIG=11idajbbb/*http%3A//www.kffl.com/entry/index_yahoo_news.php)

TotoreMexico
11-29-2006, 09:19 PM
:spamkill:

Troysif
11-29-2006, 09:23 PM
what the hell

laxs1308
11-29-2006, 09:36 PM
way to go c-pepp !

your on your way back to being the pro bowler you are.

move over joey.. c-pepp is on your back.

WHAT? you think The man that fell flat on his face this year should come back and replace Joey Harrington who has done much better then anyone would have expected, And Carried this team so far?


I wouldn't replace Joey for anyone right now.

CrunchTime
11-29-2006, 09:37 PM
It just confirms that he is still on the roster and has not been moved to IR.

Saban has not given up on the season ,at least thats how it could be read.He wants to have all of his weapons available.....just in case we get there.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-29-2006, 09:38 PM
WHAT? you think The man that fell flat on his face this year should come back and replace Joey Harrington who has done much better then anyone would have expected, And Carried this team so far?


I wouldn't replace Joey for anyone right now.
How is Joey doing much better than anyone would expect? If that is the case then Saban has low expectations.

outtawack311
11-29-2006, 09:38 PM
I wouldn't replace Joey for anyone right now.

So if you were offered Brady, Manning, Rivers, Romo, etc etc etc etc you wouldn't take it over mediocre harrington?

Someone started their holiday drinking early this year.

bluehaze
11-29-2006, 09:38 PM
LOL, You know the media is getting desperate when the only news they can find on the guy is that "He attended practice today"

Brown42000
11-29-2006, 09:38 PM
Joey needs to stay the starter for this team and I don't want Daunte back this year.

bluehaze
11-29-2006, 09:41 PM
So if you were offered Brady, Manning, Rivers, Romo, etc etc etc etc you wouldn't take it over mediocre harrington?

Someone started their holiday drinking early this year.

If we are winning with Harrington, i'd rather stick with him than spend the next 15 years losing via the new QB every season approach in an attempt to find the next Manning or Brady.

IluvJuMiami
11-29-2006, 09:47 PM
So if you were offered Brady, Manning, Rivers, Romo, etc etc etc etc you wouldn't take it over mediocre harrington?

Someone started their holiday drinking early this year.

Well, we exchanged Gus Frerotte for Daunte Culpepper in the offseason and where did that get us(answer is 1-6 by the way)? Ofcourse any fool would take the likes of a Brady or Manning over Harrington any day of the week and twice on Sundays but what I believe the poster you quoted was trying to state was "If it ain't broken don't try to fix it." We're on a roll right now. Why change anything? ...for now.

RenoFinFan
11-29-2006, 09:47 PM
It was reported he practiced with the 2nd team and his official stats:

6 comp 9 attempts 61 yards 85.88% QB rating

oh yeah...7 sacks for a loss of 62 yards and two fumbles.

Saban stated that Culpepper is already back to his previous level of play after leading the offense to four safeties.

CashInFist
11-29-2006, 09:48 PM
If we are winning with Harrington, i'd rather stick with him than spend the next 15 years losing via the new QB every season approach in an attempt to find the next Manning or Brady.

Agree. If we keep doing the QB shuffle every year we would probably just cut the next Peyton Manning when he had a poor season just like he did his first year.

Vertical Limit
11-29-2006, 09:52 PM
It was reported he practiced with the 2nd team and his official stats:

6 comp 9 attempts 61 yards 85.88% QB rating

oh yeah...7 sacks for a loss of 62 yards and two fumbles.

Saban stated that Culpepper is already back to his previous level of play after leading the offense to four safeties.
:sidelol: Story of Daunte's fantasy career.

bluehaze
11-29-2006, 09:55 PM
Agree. If we keep doing the QB shuffle every year we would probably just cut the next Peyton Manning when he had a poor season just like he did his first year.

Yep, look at Damon Huard, probably not the next Peyton but who knows what would have happened if he was given a shot.

laxs1308
11-29-2006, 10:01 PM
I believe the poster you quoted was trying to state was "If it ain't broken don't try to fix it." We're on a roll right now. Why change anything? ...for now.

Thank You.

Daunte is washed up, major knee problems lets stay with a QB who can move out of the pocket, and not get sacked 7 times by the BILLS.

hof13
11-29-2006, 10:04 PM
Interesting. Saban's post practice transcript said Daunte wasn't even there today (the 29th).

http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/news/top_story.asp?contentID=4903


Daunte actually was not here because he went to the doctor. Just a routine check-up we’ve been trying to get worked out for a couple of weeks now.

TampaFinsFan01
11-29-2006, 10:40 PM
It just confirms that he is still on the roster and has not been moved to IR.

Saban has not given up on the season ,at least thats how it could be read.He wants to have all of his weapons available.....just in case we get there.

I'm glad that Saban hasn't given up. I just wish someone would tell him that preseason isn't 12 games. Its 4. After that, they're for real. They count. The season starts in September, not November. Geez. This is frustrating as hell to have a team that is playing well and won't even get a chance at the post season...again.

I was planning on going to the game vs Jax earlier in the year, but I have to admit, I have given up on this season so I am staying in Tampa. I knew when we lost to Buffalo bad things were in store for this team.

Hopefully, next year we'll start out better.

Metal Panda
11-29-2006, 10:43 PM
Well, we exchanged Gus Frerotte for Daunte Culpepper in the offseason and where did that get us(answer is 1-6 by the way)? Ofcourse any fool would take the likes of a Brady or Manning over Harrington any day of the week and twice on Sundays but what I believe the poster you quoted was trying to state was "If it ain't broken don't try to fix it." We're on a roll right now. Why change anything? ...for now.

wrong. 1-3.

PhinFan0202
11-29-2006, 10:50 PM
I'm glad that Saban hasn't given up. I just wish someone would tell him that preseason isn't 12 games. Its 4. After that, they're for real. They count. The season starts in September, not November. Geez. This is frustrating as hell to have a team that is playing well and won't even get a chance at the post season...again.

I was planning on going to the game vs Jax earlier in the year, but I have to admit, I have given up on this season so I am staying in Tampa. I knew when we lost to Buffalo bad things were in store for this team.

Hopefully, next year we'll start out better.

Seasons not over yet bro, keep the faith. Trust me, the way our team is playing right now we have just as much of a chance at the wild card. The Jets are in contention for the wild card and they are only one game ahead of us by record.

305TillIDie
11-29-2006, 10:52 PM
:woot:

Metal Panda
11-29-2006, 10:53 PM
Man, this board is so full of bandwagoneers it makes me laugh...it's not even sad, it's funny.

Daunte played four games behind an offensive line that threw up its arms and let out girly screams anytime the opponent showed a blitz on a knee that wasn't as good as he (or Saban, or we) thought....

wait until next year...we'll see who wins the job.

KTOWNFINFAN
11-29-2006, 11:12 PM
How is Joey doing much better than anyone would expect? If that is the case then Saban has low expectations.


Have you seen a single game this year?? Joey is doing better than anyone in the league could have expected. Danute on the other hand made me want to throw up. If something happens to Joey I hope to GOD we turn to Cleo then Vick and Brock before letting Danute give away game after game.

Metal Panda
11-29-2006, 11:19 PM
throwing more INTs than TDs is exceeding expectations? :lol:

Silverphin
11-29-2006, 11:20 PM
Man, this board is so full of bandwagoneers it makes me laugh...it's not even sad, it's funny.

Daunte played four games behind an offensive line that threw up its arms and let out girly screams anytime the opponent showed a blitz on a knee that wasn't as good as he (or Saban, or we) thought....

wait until next year...we'll see who wins the job.

True. A bit exxagerated, but true.

Brad528
11-29-2006, 11:26 PM
WHAT? you think The man that fell flat on his face this year should come back and replace Joey Harrington who has done much better then anyone would have expected, And Carried this team so far?


I wouldn't replace Joey for anyone right now.
Do you not watch the games. He has done exactly what I thought Joey Harrington would do and that is throw more INTs then TDs. Joey is a scrub and has played like one all season long. You people are being blinded by victories. We win games because of JT and company not because of Joey. Sure he looked alright against the Worst pass Def in the History of the NFL though this many games.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-29-2006, 11:35 PM
Have you seen a single game this year?? Joey is doing better than anyone in the league could have expected. Danute on the other hand made me want to throw up. If something happens to Joey I hope to GOD we turn to Cleo then Vick and Brock before letting Danute give away game after game.

I have watched them all. Joey is exactly what I have expected him to be. He has been inconsistant and inaccurate. He has played decently. If you expected less from him, then you had a REALLY low expectation of Joey Harrington.

Aqua4Ever04
11-29-2006, 11:54 PM
WHAT? you think The man that fell flat on his face this year should come back and replace Joey Harrington who has done much better then anyone would have expected, And Carried this team so far?


I wouldn't replace Joey for anyone right now.

Daunte will be the starter next year unless Joey starts to light it up. Joey hasn't carried the team, the defense has.

If you wouldn't trade Joey for anyone, I'm guessing you haven't watched a game of football this year.

MrEd
11-30-2006, 12:01 AM
WHAT? you think The man that fell flat on his face this year should come back and replace Joey Harrington who has done much better then anyone would have expected, And Carried this team so far?


I wouldn't replace Joey for anyone right now.


:confused: :confused: :confused: :shakeno:

MrEd
11-30-2006, 12:04 AM
Do you not watch the games. He has done exactly what I thought Joey Harrington would do and that is throw more INTs then TDs. Joey is a scrub and has played like one all season long. You people are being blinded by victories. We win games because of JT and company not because of Joey. Sure he looked alright against the Worst pass Def in the History of the NFL though this many games.


Whoee! I thought I was going crazy when that poster made that post about Joey carrying this team???

Now I feel sane again. Man, do these guys watch the games? Unless, this is his agent posting or something...

MrEd
11-30-2006, 12:05 AM
So if you were offered Brady, Manning, Rivers, Romo, etc etc etc etc you wouldn't take it over mediocre harrington?

Someone started their holiday drinking early this year.


:lol: :sidelol: :lol:

Vertical Limit
11-30-2006, 12:06 AM
Daunte will be the starter next year unless Joey starts to light it up. Joey hasn't carried the team, the defense has.

If you wouldn't trade Joey for anyone, I'm guessing you haven't watched a game of football this year.
Daunte will be the starter next year IF he earns the starting role. Daunte too hasn't carried this team. He isn't a franchise QB, and hasn't earned to be named the franchise QB yet.

Got to treat him like the Jets treated Chad Pennington in the offseason. Make him earn the job,

MrEd
11-30-2006, 12:08 AM
Well, we exchanged Gus Frerotte for Daunte Culpepper in the offseason and where did that get us(answer is 1-6 by the way)? Ofcourse any fool would take the likes of a Brady or Manning over Harrington any day of the week and twice on Sundays but what I believe the poster you quoted was trying to state was "If it ain't broken don't try to fix it." We're on a roll right now. Why change anything? ...for now.

Yo....pass that sht....

how can DC be responsible for 1-6 when he only played 4 games :confused:

Coral Reefer
11-30-2006, 12:12 AM
So if you were offered Brady, Manning, Rivers, Romo, etc etc etc etc you wouldn't take it over mediocre harrington?

Someone started their holiday drinking early this year.

I would take all of the above besides Romo over Culpepper too so what's the point?

Coral Reefer
11-30-2006, 12:13 AM
Daunte will be the starter next year IF he earns the starting role. Daunte too hasn't carried this team. He isn't a franchise QB, and hasn't earned to be named the franchise QB yet.

Got to treat him like the Jets treated Chad Pennington in the offseason. Make him earn the job,


Absolutely.

Nice post.
No one should be handed anything at this point.
Both QB's will have a lot to prove going into camp next year.

Sean
11-30-2006, 12:21 AM
JOEY IS OUR STARTER!

c-pep is gunna battle joey in preseason for the starting qb job, but overall harrington improves every game i wouldn't replace him with sack filled c-pep (not doubting him at all)

Aqua4Ever04
11-30-2006, 12:36 AM
Daunte will be the starter next year IF he earns the starting role. Daunte too hasn't carried this team. He isn't a franchise QB, and hasn't earned to be named the franchise QB yet.

Got to treat him like the Jets treated Chad Pennington in the offseason. Make him earn the job,

Okay well barring any blow up in Joey's skills, that should be no problem for Daunte. We all know he is the far better quarterback.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 12:55 AM
All we heard around the East during TC was how culpepper was ahead of schedule with his knee reconstruction. How he'd be ready for the start of the season, how he'd be a pro bowler. Rodney Harrision had the same knee injury yet he was able to start the season on opening day and played every game up until his broken shoulder injury vs the colts. How come Harrision whos position is way more physical than culpepper was able to rehab in less than a year but mr pro bowl now over a year is still riding the pine? I don't believe he's riding the pine because of his knee at all. He's riding the pine because he's a bust, he is what he was his last few seasons in minny and its all become clear now why they were so willing to unload him. What do you want to bet he gets traded this off season? Well I hear Drew Bledsoe is available for starting duty only and Mularkey likes him to boot. :sidelol:

WestCKoastiN
11-30-2006, 12:55 AM
we shouldnt start daunte wait till next year buddy!

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 01:00 AM
Okay well barring any blow up in Joey's skills, that should be no problem for Daunte. We all know he is the far better quarterback.

Time to pull your head out of the sand and stop living in the past. El Daunte's best days have passed him by and in the NFL you can't live on yesterdays accomplishments. Its strickly a what have you done for me lately league.


RIP Daunte

bluehaze
11-30-2006, 01:02 AM
All we heard around the East during TC was how culpepper was ahead of schedule with his knee reconstruction. How he'd be ready for the start of the season, how he'd be a pro bowler. Rodney Harrision had the same knee injury yet he was able to start the season on opening day and played every game up until his broken shoulder injury vs the colts. How come Harrision whos position is way more physical than culpepper was able to rehab in less than a year but mr pro bowl now over a year is still riding the pine? I don't believe he's riding the pine because of his knee at all. He's riding the pine because he's a bust, he is what he was his last few seasons in minny and its all become clear now why they were so willing to unload him. What do you want to bet he gets traded this off season? Well I hear Drew Bledsoe is available for starting duty only and Mularkey likes him to boot. :sidelol:

I kind of see it the same way, first the excuses to bench him, then the "explosive movement program", now he is even missing practices. It's certainly starting to seem as if they are moving on without him at this point. The only ones really talking about him anymore are the Culpepper diehards. It's likely to be a very interesting offseason.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 01:21 AM
I kind of see it the same way, first the excuses to bench him, then the "explosive movement program", now he is even missing practices. It's certainly starting to seem as if they are moving on without him at this point. The only ones really talking about him anymore are the Culpepper diehards. It's likely to be a very interesting offseason.

You hit the nail onthe head. This is not unlike the deal in Dallas where Parcells thought he was so good he could just work his magic on Bledsoe and coach him back to Mr Pro Bowl. The trouble with that is both he and culpepper have been in the game too long to break all their bad habbits, the old dog new tricks thing. As hard as Parcells tried he finally accepted the fact he couldn't break those bad habbits of Bledsoe's that Drew has had for 10 yrs. I'll give Parcells this at least he stood up and said this kid Romo gives us a better chance to win so I'm sitting Bledsoe. No hiding behind lame excuses and I'm sure that Parcells feels like a failure for not being able to change Bledsoe. I also feel Saban had the same thoughts about Culpepper, that he was a good enough coach he could simply coach Culpepper to be a better player but as bledsoe culpepper has too many years of bad habbits for Saban to coach the old dog into new tricks. Nick should at least come clean and publicly admit he's made a mistake and stop hiding behind this bogus knee rehab excuse. Right now it appears that out of those two QB's Harrington is the one open to change thru coaching and more likely will be easier for Saban to mould into his guy.
As for Culpepper and Bledsoe they fall into the old Qb catagory and we all know that QB"s never die they just lose their balls.

Aqua4Ever04
11-30-2006, 01:38 AM
Time to pull your head out of the sand and stop living in the past. El Daunte's best days have passed him by and in the NFL you can't live on yesterdays accomplishments. Its strickly a what have you done for me lately league.


RIP Daunte

He's 29, I think it's quite premature to say that he is finished. Let him get back on a healthy knee then we will see where he is.

bluehaze
11-30-2006, 01:48 AM
You hit the nail onthe head. This is not unlike the deal in Dallas where Parcells thought he was so good he could just work his magic on Bledsoe and coach him back to Mr Pro Bowl. The trouble with that is both he and culpepper have been in the game too long to break all their bad habbits, the old dog new tricks thing. As hard as Parcells tried he finally accepted the fact he couldn't break those bad habbits of Bledsoe's that Drew has had for 10 yrs. I'll give Parcells this at least he stood up and said this kid Romo gives us a better chance to win so I'm sitting Bledsoe. No hiding behind lame excuses and I'm sure that Parcells feels like a failure for not being able to change Bledsoe. I also feel Saban had the same thoughts about Culpepper, that he was a good enough coach he could simply coach Culpepper to be a better player but as bledsoe culpepper has too many years of bad habbits for Saban to coach the old dog into new tricks. Nick should at least come clean and publicly admit he's made a mistake and stop hiding behind this bogus knee rehab excuse. Right now it appears that out of those two QB's Harrington is the one open to change thru coaching and more likely will be easier for Saban to mould into his guy.
As for Culpepper and Bledsoe they fall into the old Qb catagory and we all know that QB"s never die they just lose their balls.

Yea, you've got to respect Parcells but the situation is a bit different for him, He didn't sign Bledsoe to a 50 million dollar contract :eek: I agree with the old dog new tricks, nice analogy, I was talking about that in another thread. If Saban want's to keep Culpepper he's going to have to build a team around him starting with a probowl caliber O-Line and that takes time, too much time in that by the time we have the team Culpepper needs he would likely be on the brink of retirement. It just seems most feasible at this point to cut our losses.

Something else I caught tonight on Inside the NFL they were asking Marino if he thought Harrington could lead this team to a Super Bowl in the years to come, no mention of Culpepper whatsoever, I guess they are assuming Culpepper will be traded as well.

amay
11-30-2006, 01:48 AM
You hit the nail onthe head. This is not unlike the deal in Dallas where Parcells thought he was so good he could just work his magic on Bledsoe and coach him back to Mr Pro Bowl. The trouble with that is both he and culpepper have been in the game too long to break all their bad habbits, the old dog new tricks thing. As hard as Parcells tried he finally accepted the fact he couldn't break those bad habbits of Bledsoe's that Drew has had for 10 yrs. I'll give Parcells this at least he stood up and said this kid Romo gives us a better chance to win so I'm sitting Bledsoe. No hiding behind lame excuses and I'm sure that Parcells feels like a failure for not being able to change Bledsoe. I also feel Saban had the same thoughts about Culpepper, that he was a good enough coach he could simply coach Culpepper to be a better player but as bledsoe culpepper has too many years of bad habbits for Saban to coach the old dog into new tricks. Nick should at least come clean and publicly admit he's made a mistake and stop hiding behind this bogus knee rehab excuse. Right now it appears that out of those two QB's Harrington is the one open to change thru coaching and more likely will be easier for Saban to mould into his guy.
As for Culpepper and Bledsoe they fall into the old Qb catagory and we all know that QB"s never die they just lose their balls.


hey theres someone with a brain, about time around here

Joey 22
11-30-2006, 01:49 AM
All we heard around the East during TC was how culpepper was ahead of schedule with his knee reconstruction. How he'd be ready for the start of the season, how he'd be a pro bowler. Rodney Harrision had the same knee injury yet he was able to start the season on opening day and played every game up until his broken shoulder injury vs the colts. How come Harrision whos position is way more physical than culpepper was able to rehab in less than a year but mr pro bowl now over a year is still riding the pine? I don't believe he's riding the pine because of his knee at all. He's riding the pine because he's a bust, he is what he was his last few seasons in minny and its all become clear now why they were so willing to unload him. What do you want to bet he gets traded this off season? Well I hear Drew Bledsoe is available for starting duty only and Mularkey likes him to boot. :sidelol:

Harrison blew 1 ligament, CPep blew 3...PLEASE get your facts right people!!!!!

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 01:49 AM
He's 29, I think it's quite premature to say that he is finished. Let him get back on a healthy knee then we will see where he is.


You can't judge when a QB is finished simply by his age. His last 3 seasons play tell more than his age and you can't simply choose to ignore that no matter how old he is.

Daunte has had more than enough time for that knee to heal.....if that were the real reason Nick benched him. :shakeno:


Funny thing is even today you'll find Drewpies that will swear up and down that Bledsoe is still a pro bowl QB even after he's been benched 3 times on 3 different teams because he stinks. I have the feeling you'll be posting on message boards of the next team that signs him trying to convince them that he's a pro bowler, its just his knee still needs more time to heal. :tantrum:

Aqua4Ever04
11-30-2006, 01:51 AM
You can't judge when a QB is finished simply by his age. His last 3 seasons play tell more than his age and you can't simply choose to ignore that no matter how old he is.

Daunte has had more than enough time for that knee to heal.....if that were the real reason Nick benched him. :shakeno:


Funny thing is even today you'll find Drewpies that will swear up and down that Bledsoe is still a pro bowl QB even after he's been benched 3 times on 3 different teams because he stinks. I have the feeling you'll be posting on message boards of the next team that signs him trying to convince them that he's a pro bowler, its just his knee still needs more time to heal. :tantrum:

The difference is that Culpepper was benched for an injury. Bledsoe was benched based on abilities alone.

You said judge Daunte off his last three seasons, well in 2004 he had 39 TDs. You probably shouldn't use that season to argue how bad he is.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 01:57 AM
You can't judge when a QB is finished simply by his age. His last 3 seasons play tell more than his age and you can't simply choose to ignore that no matter how old he is.

Daunte has had more than enough time for that knee to heal.....if that were the real reason Nick benched him. :shakeno:


Funny thing is even today you'll find Drewpies that will swear up and down that Bledsoe is still a pro bowl QB even after he's been benched 3 times on 3 different teams because he stinks. I have the feeling you'll be posting on message boards of the next team that signs him trying to convince them that he's a pro bowler, its just his knee still needs more time to heal. :tantrum:

you mean 2 seasons as the first of the 3 was one of the best seasons by a quarterback of all time.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 01:57 AM
Harrison blew 1 ligament, CPep blew 3...PLEASE get your facts right people!!!!!

Maybe its you who needs to get the facts straight. Harrison tore all 3 ligaments in his knee same as culpepper.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The New England Patriots' (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/page/NE) star safety will miss the rest of the season after suffering a knee injury Sunday that his agent, Steve Feldman, characterized as "severe."

Results of an MRI taken Monday, Feldman said, revealed that Harrison suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament, medial collateral ligament and posterior cruciate ligament in his left knee.
"He's done," said Feldman, who spoke to his client Monday afternoon. "His season is over."


http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8895518

Mike13
11-30-2006, 02:00 AM
:spamkill:

How so?

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 02:19 AM
The difference is that Culpepper was benched for an injury. Bledsoe was benched based on abilities alone.

First Culpepper was benched because of his play not his knee. The knee excuse was dreamed up the following day when it was apparent that Nick benched him because his play stunk. Generally when a player is hurt and benched for that reason the coach will state that at the time of the change not a day or two after. I remember that whole shady benching when culpepper and Saban had words and the look on Culpeppers face on the sidelines of his first game riding the pine was a look of anger. Then Saban decided to roll out the damage control which amounted to Culpepper stinks but we think its because his knee isn't 100%. Hell he knew that at week 1. So he waits to week 5 to bench him because he's not 100%? Those games were supposed to be the easy part of your schedule....and Culpepper put your team in a very deep hole thru that part of it.

Just to clear something up Bledsoe was benched for an injury originally in NE when Moe Lewis hit him during week 2 but the writing was already on the wall in the eyes of Belichick so he would have been pulled anyway.............Thank you Moe Lewis

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 02:26 AM
you mean 2 seasons as the first of the 3 was one of the best seasons by a quarterback of all time.

Gee i remember even when he had Moss he couldn't hold on to the dam ball. He'd try to be mr scrambler and it seemed like he'd fumble it like 80% of the time. Over his 7 or 8 yrs he maybe had 1 or 2 decent seasons and that was with one of the best WR in the league. Daunte never really made that next step as a QB and then after Moss left he stepped backwards. I think Harrington is proving to be the more coachable QB on your team right now and thats what Saban was looking for all along.

RenoFinFan
11-30-2006, 02:31 AM
The difference is that Culpepper was benched for an injury. Bledsoe was benched based on abilities alone.

You said judge Daunte off his last three seasons, well in 2004 he had 39 TDs. You probably shouldn't use that season to argue how bad he is.
Actually, 2004 is a pretty good year to judge why Daunte isn't all that good. He led the team to a 5-1 start, but the Vikings finished losing 7 of the final 10 and 4 of the final 5 games...a common theme for Daunte led teams. His team only beat one team with a winning record during the regular season and that was the Jaguars at 9-7. Daunte has had three decent years in his seven year career and all three of those years his team has "COLLAPSED" at the end of the season.

The bottom line is when Daunte faces a tough defense he goes from Daunte to Dumbte.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 02:32 AM
Gee i remember even when he had Moss he couldn't hold on to the dam ball. He'd try to be mr scrambler and it seemed like he'd fumble it like 80% of the time. Over his 7 or 8 yrs he maybe had 1 or 2 decent seasons and that was with one of the best WR in the league. Daunte never really made that next step as a QB and then after Moss left he stepped backwards. I think Harrington is proving to be the more coachable QB on your team right now and thats what Saban was looking for all along.

Well he had his best season of his career when Moss was injured and basically ineffective.

And if he had 1 or 2 decent seasons then the NFL really needs to adjust its rating system because all you need is 2 decent seasons to be top 5 of all time.

I don't see how Harringotn is proving more coachable as MIami REALLY has tailored their offense to Harrington. Calling WAY more come back routes and other routes where all Harrington has to do is hit a non moving target, which he is excellent at. Just look at the last two games where he rarely had to throw post or corner or fly routes or any route where the wide reciever had to keep running. In fact the only times really they did passes like that were crossing routes which the wide reciever was so wide open both times that if he did throw it way behind the bounce up wouldn't cause an interception.

Harrington REALLY needs to work on his accuracy with a moving target.

Aqua4Ever04
11-30-2006, 02:33 AM
Actually, 2004 is a pretty good year to judge why Daunte isn't all that good. He led the team to a 5-1 start, but the Vikings finished losing 7 of the final 10 and 4 of the final 5 games...a common theme for Daunte led teams. His team only beat one team with a winning record during the regular season and that was the Jaguars at 9-7. Daunte has had three decent years in his seven year career and all three of those years his team has "COLLAPSED" at the end of the season.

The bottom line is when Daunte faces a tough defense he goes from Daunte to Dumbte.

Oh right, silly me, I forgot. The result of games rests solely on the shoulder of the QB. I forgot to factor in that logic when I was typing that. I mean Joey is just as good as Manning because we're winning, right?

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 02:34 AM
Actually, 2004 is a pretty good year to judge why Daunte isn't all that good. He led the team to a 5-1 start, but the Vikings finished losing 7 of the final 10 and 4 of the final 5 games...a common theme for Daunte led teams. His team only beat one team with a winning record during the regular season and that was the Jaguars at 9-7. Daunte has had three decent years in his seven year career and all three of those years his team has "COLLAPSED" at the end of the season.

The bottom line is when Daunte faces a tough defense he goes from Daunte to Dumbte.

yea I guess that had nothing to do with their bad defense

amay
11-30-2006, 02:37 AM
Actually, 2004 is a pretty good year to judge why Daunte isn't all that good. He led the team to a 5-1 start, but the Vikings finished losing 7 of the final 10 and 4 of the final 5 games...a common theme for Daunte led teams. His team only beat one team with a winning record during the regular season and that was the Jaguars at 9-7. Daunte has had three decent years in his seven year career and all three of those years his team has "COLLAPSED" at the end of the season.

The bottom line is when Daunte faces a tough defense he goes from Daunte to Dumbte.


that's because Daunte is DUMB. He has no Brain, he was in candyland over in the NFC with a great offense and offensive line. He doesn't read coverages well, makes horrible decisions, im sick of the Daunte lovers on here. I gave him a chance even tho i knew he couldn't succeed here. And i kept screamin at the TV week after Week to bench him. Dolphins looked so horrible with him under the gun. How could u still want this guy? Joey may not be peyton Manning, but compared to Daunte he's a MAJOR improvement.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 02:37 AM
Yea, you've got to respect Parcells but the situation is a bit different for him, He didn't sign Bledsoe to a 50 million dollar contract :eek: I agree with the old dog new tricks, nice analogy, I was talking about that in another thread. If Saban want's to keep Culpepper he's going to have to build a team around him starting with a probowl caliber O-Line and that takes time, too much time in that by the time we have the team Culpepper needs he would likely be on the brink of retirement. It just seems most feasible at this point to cut our losses.

Something else I caught tonight on Inside the NFL they were asking Marino if he thought Harrington could lead this team to a Super Bowl in the years to come, no mention of Culpepper whatsoever, I guess they are assuming Culpepper will be traded as well.

So what did Marino say?
Its a shame that Saban paid so much for what was nothing more than an experiment. I'm not sure I agree with the assessment that culpepper needs a probowl caliber line or that one would help him. They said that same thing for years about bledsoe always blamed his pit falls on the offensive line yet Brady stepped in with the same line and the sacks fell to nearly none. even a probowl caliber line can only protect for so long and those QBs that get fixated on the long ball or one WR hold on to the ball too long for any "O" line to hold up the "D".
I look at NE's "O" line and they often plug and play with some one off the bench because of injuries and often times its hard to tell the difference. Brady gets thru his reads fairly quickly and finds the open man. He's not committed to stand there and wait for one guy to get open. Thats what culpeper needs to do find the open man quickly and get the ball out quickly. It what Harringtons been doing since he came in. It takes the pressure off the "O" line and they know with Harrington that x amount of seconds go by and the ball is coming out. Joey Harrington just seems to have more pocket presence and a better internal clock than culpepper displayed.

bluehaze
11-30-2006, 02:42 AM
And if he had 1 or 2 decent seasons then the NFL really needs to adjust its rating system because all you need is 2 decent seasons to be top 5 of all time.



I agree with you on this one, a rating sytem that rewards QB's for taking sacks is a flawed system.

RenoFinFan
11-30-2006, 02:43 AM
Oh right, silly me, I forgot. The result of games rests solely on the shoulder of the QB. I forgot to factor in that logic when I was typing that. I mean Joey is just as good as Manning because we're winning, right?

Why do you resort to the absurd in your arguments? Where have I ever indicated that Joey is as good as Manning because the Dolphins are on a 4 game winning streak?

If you think that given the fact that Daunte has not led a team to a winning record in the past six years and given the talent that surrounded him does not reflect his leadership ability (lack of) then yes, silly you.

bluehaze
11-30-2006, 02:46 AM
So what did Marino say?
Its a shame that Saban paid so much for what was nothing more than an experiment. I'm not sure I agree with the assessment that culpepper needs a probowl caliber line or that one would help him. They said that same thing for years about bledsoe always blamed his pit falls on the offensive line yet Brady stepped in with the same line and the sacks fell to nearly none. even a probowl caliber line can only protect for so long and those QBs that get fixated on the long ball or one WR hold on to the ball too long for any "O" line to hold up the "D".
I look at NE's "O" line and they often plug and play with some one off the bench because of injuries and often times its hard to tell the difference. Brady gets thru his reads fairly quickly and finds the open man. He's not committed to stand there and wait for one guy to get open. Thats what culpeper needs to do find the open man quickly and get the ball out quickly. It what Harringtons been doing since he came in. It takes the pressure off the "O" line and they know with Harrington that x amount of seconds go by and the ball is coming out. Joey Harrington just seems to have more pocket presence and a better internal clock than culpepper displayed.

Yea I agree 100%, I am just saying if they are going to try and fit Culpepper into this system they would need a pro caliber line because the guy can't make quick decisions to save his life. He can't even manage to throw the ball away without taking a sack.

Marino said he didn't know he would have to see how he plays the rest of this year before he would say Harrington could lead us to a Super Bowl.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 02:46 AM
Well he had his best season of his career when Moss was injured and basically ineffective.

And if he had 1 or 2 decent seasons then the NFL really needs to adjust its rating system because all you need is 2 decent seasons to be top 5 of all time.

I don't see how Harringotn is proving more coachable as MIami REALLY has tailored their offense to Harrington. Calling WAY more come back routes and other routes where all Harrington has to do is hit a non moving target, which he is excellent at. Just look at the last two games where he rarely had to throw post or corner or fly routes or any route where the wide reciever had to keep running. In fact the only times really they did passes like that were crossing routes which the wide reciever was so wide open both times that if he did throw it way behind the bounce up wouldn't cause an interception.

Harrington REALLY needs to work on his accuracy with a moving target.

So you don't believe over those first 4 weeks that Saban didn't try and tailor that offense to culpepper? Your saying that he threw culpepper in there with a bad knee and expected him to carry on with the complete play book with out using plays with a higher chance of success with culpeppers handi cap? Joey is more coachable simply because he's able to buy himself a little extra time if needed and he's usually on his feet not his back to make those throws.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 02:51 AM
Yea I agree 100%, I am just saying if they are going to try and fit Culpepper into this system they would need a pro caliber line because the guy can't make quick decisions to save his life. He can't even manage to throw the ball away without taking a sack.

Marino said he didn't know he would have to see how he plays the rest of this year before he would say something like that.

BH I think you've touched on the real root of the problem with culpepper his lack of ability to process his receivers or reads and make a quick decision. That is what we all saw in the difference between Bledsoe and brady up here. One can process his reads and decisions quickly and Bledsoe couldn't. He couldn't do it here and he couldn't do it in either buffalo or Dallas either. Next question is is that problem a coachable problem that can be fixed or is it something a QB has to possess on his own? I know they weren't able to coach it out of Bledsoe. You know i see a lot of Parallels between Culpep and Bledsoe. They both have a nice long ball but neither can can process fast enough to know when to dump it out to the outlet receiver and both didn't even know when to just throw it away. Most of the time they take the sack. I don't think either excell in the short to intermediate passing game.

bluehaze
11-30-2006, 02:56 AM
BH I think you've touched on the real root of the problem with culpepper his lack of ability to process his receivers or reads and make a quick decision. That is what we all saw in the difference between Bledsoe and brady up here. One can process his reads and decisions quickly and Bledsoe couldn't. He couldn't do it here and he couldn't do it in either buffalo or Dallas either. Next question is is that problem a coachable problem that can be fixed or is it something a QB has to possess on his own? I know they weren't able to coach it out of Bledsoe.

If Linehan was still here possibly but with our current staff no way. I found this on another forum from a vikes fan, pretty much says it all:

"The thing about Daunte is that he has all the physical tools in the world to be an elite QB. He's got the rocket arm and pinpoint accuracy and he had some very good seasons for the Vikings. However, Daunte lacks the study habits and grey matter to be a great QB. Daunte's best season was under OC Scott Linehan. Linehan knew that he hated to study so he would literally give him "tests" throughout the week to prepare. Culpepper would be sat down in the classroom and given questions - "You're given this coverage, who is your #2 read? Who is your checkdown? Do you audible out after seeing this in your pre-snap read?". This anal-retentive discipline was exactly what Culpepper needed. Linehan's offensive system here in Minnesota was actually fairly uncomplicated, nicknamed the "Duh" offense (I'm not making this up). Basically everything started with the safety read on Moss. Are they rolling a safety over the top to Moss? If yes, your options are X, Y, and Z in that order. Is Moss in single coverage? Well everyone knows what would happen next. Daunte excelled in that system because of it's simplicity.

When Moss left and Linehan left, then trouble started. Before Daunte ever hurt his knee, it was apparent that he was lost out there. He waited too long in the pocket. The whispers in the film room were that he struggled to make it through his reads. He'd see his first read covered, move to the next, option #2 is covered and then all hell would break loose. The result was panic. Sacks. Interceptions. Fumbles. At best, scrambles, checkdowns and dumpoffs. He had that spooked look that rookie QB's have when they are overwhelmed. Then came the knee injury, the pay raise demand, and soon he was shown the door by Childress. Bottom-line - I've watched every game of his NFL career and I don't think he has the mental capacity to be a great QB."

Aqua4Ever04
11-30-2006, 02:57 AM
Why do you resort to the absurd in your arguments? Where have I ever indicated that Joey is as good as Manning because the Dolphins are on a 4 game winning streak?

If you think that given the fact that Daunte has not led a team to a winning record in the past six years and given the talent that surrounded him does not reflect his leadership ability (lack of) then yes, silly you.

I think the absurd thing is people suggesting that a team's record falls solely on the quarterback. Many members here at Finheaven believe Joey is a great quarterback simply because the team is winning. I just think that a team's performance shouldn't determine the fact of your QB. His play, and only his play should.

Coral Reefer
11-30-2006, 03:00 AM
So what did Marino say?
Its a shame that Saban paid so much for what was nothing more than an experiment. I'm not sure I agree with the assessment that culpepper needs a probowl caliber line or that one would help him. They said that same thing for years about bledsoe always blamed his pit falls on the offensive line yet Brady stepped in with the same line and the sacks fell to nearly none. even a probowl caliber line can only protect for so long and those QBs that get fixated on the long ball or one WR hold on to the ball too long for any "O" line to hold up the "D".
I look at NE's "O" line and they often plug and play with some one off the bench because of injuries and often times its hard to tell the difference. Brady gets thru his reads fairly quickly and finds the open man. He's not committed to stand there and wait for one guy to get open. Thats what culpeper needs to do find the open man quickly and get the ball out quickly. It what Harringtons been doing since he came in. It takes the pressure off the "O" line and they know with Harrington that x amount of seconds go by and the ball is coming out. Joey Harrington just seems to have more pocket presence and a better internal clock than culpepper displayed.

This is a great post and it brings up very valid concerns about Culpepper's future.

Many believe the team should just assume that Culpepper is going to be the guy once he "fully" rehabs that knee.
To me, that would be a huge mistake for the team to make and one I don't believe they are going to make.

The competition needs to be open going into next year.
In addition, I believe that it's in everyone's best interest that Culpepper gets back on the field this year if possible.
He gets no "pass" and he needs to prove himself to this organization before we put any trust in him holding down our starting QB position.

I will add that I played at UCF and know for a fact that the team did simplify the offense down to help Culpepper's problems with reading defenses, processing the info and making quick enough decisions. This injury and his lack of being able to scramble around to get plays to break down may have just exposed this weakness even more. I hope it's something he can overcome but I certainly am not willing to bet our franchises immediate future on it.

Spiff
11-30-2006, 04:26 AM
I think the absurd thing is people suggesting that a team's record falls solely on the quarterback. Many members here at Finheaven believe Joey is a great quarterback simply because the team is winning. I just think that a team's performance shouldn't determine the fact of your QB. His play, and only his play should.
Eventually, the team's success depends on the play of the quarterback. Just as it depends on all other players on the field. So, if the team is winning, the quarterback did his job. Just like any other player - and coach. Simple as that. There might be room for improvement once in a while but the W is what they're playing for.
Just ask Dan Marino......arguably the greatest quarterback that ever played the game. Based on his individual play. But IMO - and I know I might get bashed for this on a Dolphins board - the greatest team QB ever is Joe Montana. And Tom Brady is a close second. Just because of their rings. Period.

jdang307
11-30-2006, 04:39 AM
So, if the team is winning, the quarterback did his job.

Did you see Chicago vs. Arizona this year? Multiply that by 16 and you have a perfect season, and you want to keep the QB?

B.S. Even if a team is winning, no position is spared analysis. As Saban says, you always look to improve a team and add talent.

Spiff
11-30-2006, 05:45 AM
Did you see Chicago vs. Arizona this year? Multiply that by 16 and you have a perfect season, and you want to keep the QB?

B.S. Even if a team is winning, no position is spared analysis. As Saban says, you always look to improve a team and add talent.
No doubt about it. Like I said: improvements have to be made. But if you have a perfect season, why change anything? Even if your QB throws 0 TDs and 50 INTs, you still won each and every game. Having said that, you don't win 16 games with this kind of QB play, maybe one or two. And not against good teams.

hof13
11-30-2006, 07:02 AM
No doubt about it. Like I said: improvements have to be made. But if you have a perfect season, why change anything? Even if your QB throws 0 TDs and 50 INTs, you still won each and every game. Having said that, you don't win 16 games with this kind of QB play, maybe one or two. And not against good teams.

So Shula should not have played Griese when he got healthy in 1972? He should have stuck with Morrall?

ItsOurTime32
11-30-2006, 07:45 AM
way to go c-pepp !

your on your way back to being the pro bowler you are.

move over joey.. c-pepp is on your back.

buddddddy

no no no

thats not how it works

joey is the starter and wil remain starter until someone proves they can play better

Furious Yellow
11-30-2006, 07:59 AM
Linehan's offensive system here in Minnesota was actually fairly uncomplicated, nicknamed the "Duh" offense (I'm not making this up). Basically everything started with the safety read on Moss. Are they rolling a safety over the top to Moss? If yes, your options are X, Y, and Z in that order. Is Moss in single coverage? Well everyone knows what would happen next. Daunte excelled in that system because of it's simplicity.

To me, that sounds a lot like our offense here.. Joey has stated a number of times that the reason he feels comfortable here is because he is told excactly what to do.
If you see this, you do this. He doesn't have to "improvise" as much as he did in Detroit..

marcodolphin
11-30-2006, 08:24 AM
i dont think c pep will be our qb for the future,personally i would love to take drew brees hes a smart qb every time i see him play in the saint i want to slap
someone because the dolphins didint take him.

PhinsRock
11-30-2006, 08:28 AM
As soon as I read the title of this thread, I absolutely knew this would become ANOTHER Joey vs. Daunte thread. There was no getting around it.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 08:32 AM
I think the absurd thing is people suggesting that a team's record falls solely on the quarterback. Many members here at Finheaven believe Joey is a great quarterback simply because the team is winning. I just think that a team's performance shouldn't determine the fact of your QB. His play, and only his play should.

It doesn't fall solely on the QB. The other 10 players out there have to contirbute also but the one thing your QB must do is not lose the game for you with bad decisions. I don't think Harrington is a "great" QB but he has been doing enough for your team to win games and it doesn't matter if Saban has tailored his offense to suit Harringtons strengths thats what good coaches do. I don't think every team needs a probowl QB to win today but they do need a guy behind center that gives his 10 teammates a confidence that he won't make bad decisions that cost them the game. I believe thats whats happened with the dolphins so far because with the insertion of Harrington the play of those other 10 guys has improved. Perhaps they lost confidence in Culpepper after watching him make bad decisions and take sacks. Lets face it if you don't think you can win you probably won't. Confidence is contagous and its also passed back and forth on a team and nothing is better for breeding confidence than winning, something the team wasn't able to do with Cpep leading the team. That alone is enough reason to stick with Harrington for the rest of this season. A good head coach works hard to get the team to buy into his scheme and once he's put together some team chemisty you certainly don't change it without a valid reason for doing so and I don't see Cpep as a valid reason right now.

hof13
11-30-2006, 08:40 AM
It doesn't fall solely on the QB. The other 10 players out there have to contirbute also but the one thing your QB must do is not lose the game for you with bad decisions. I don't think Harrington is a "great" QB but he has been doing enough for your team to win games and it doesn't matter if Saban has tailored his offense to suit Harringtons strengths thats what good coaches do. I don't think every team needs a probowl QB to win today but they do need a guy behind center that gives his 10 teammates a confidence that he won't make bad decisions that cost them the game. I believe thats whats happened with the dolphins so far because with the insertion of Harrington the play of those other 10 guys has improved. Perhaps they lost confidence in Culpepper after watching him make bad decisions and take sacks. Lets face it if you don't think you can win you probably won't. Confidence is contagous and its also passed back and forth on a team and nothing is better for breeding confidence than winning, something the team wasn't able to do with Cpep leading the team. That alone is enough reason to stick with Harrington for the rest of this season. A good head coach works hard to get the team to buy into his scheme and once he's put together some team chemisty you certainly don't change it without a valid reason for doing so and I don't see Cpep as a valid reason right now.

The other 10 players? If we had to rely on just the offense this team would have probably just beaten the Lions.

Case in point: The vikings game. Bone-headed throw by Harrington give the Vikings a 3 point lead in the 4th quarter. I guess the other "10" players scored the last 14 points to win the game? No - the offense looked like crap in the 4th quarter and the defense bailed them out.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 08:57 AM
The other 10 players? If we had to rely on just the offense this team would have probably just beaten the Lions.

Case in point: The vikings game. Bone-headed throw by Harrington give the Vikings a 3 point lead in the 4th quarter. I guess the other "10" players scored the last 14 points to win the game? No - the offense looked like crap in the 4th quarter and the defense bailed them out.

I didn't see your defense bailing out Culpepper earlier this season. Like I said confidence is contagous. No team relies on just the offense and thats not the teams philosphy for just the offense to score points either.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 09:00 AM
Culpepper had his shot, and blew it big time. He made a mess of our offense during the first five weeks of the season. Harrington is now mopping up his mess, and doing a hell of a job proving himself as a legit starter in process. Not to mention he's helped bring us to within one game of .500 as well.....

This is a completely different offense with Harrington. The OL has gone from one of the worst{Culpepper}, to one of the very best in pass protection{Harrington}. We're moving the ball much more consistantly with Harrington at QB than we were w / Culpepper as well. Considering we've had very little success running the football this year, Harrington has been THE SPARK on offense we needed to climb out of the hole....

I have no problem allowing Culpepper a chance to battle for the starting job in 2007. I doubt he'd be able to beat out Harrington though.....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

finserg
11-30-2006, 09:39 AM
By no means do i hate c-pep or thing joey is our answer but when can you guys realize that all c-pep done for us this season is sink us deeper in @@@@ ! We gave the guy BIG MONEY for what to sit on the bench and on top of all this a 2nd draft pick....like most of the people say he can not come in next year and act like he deserves the starting role he has not shown nothing , 0 , nada !

hof13
11-30-2006, 10:00 AM
I didn't see your defense bailing out Culpepper earlier this season. Like I said confidence is contagous. No team relies on just the offense and thats not the teams philosphy for just the offense to score points either.

My point exactly. Because the defense did not bail out Culpepper and the team lost, Joey is a better quarterback? Please.

Vertical Limit
11-30-2006, 11:39 AM
Who ever thinks that Daunte Culpepper is going to beat out Harrington easily in the offseason is delusional. Three years seperated from his so called "prime" in the Junior Varsity conference, the NFC, and he's going to come back in full stride/pro bowl form? Get a clue.

He didn't even beat out Harrington in this year's preseason, yet he was still named the starter just for the hell out it.

IMO, Joey Harrington will keep improving this year, and then next year there will be a controversy.

I can see it now. We let go of Joey Harrington in the offseason to a team like the Cleveland Browns, he lights it up over there, and we are stuck with Daunte Culpepper.

With Daunte Culpepper as our starter next year, I see just another slow start for our Miami Dolphins, as he still isn't familiar with our offense, the game speed, and lack of reading defense. He still hasn't even proved to be the leader of this team [our team really depends on a motivational leader, something Daunte hasn't shown he can be, something Joey always shows on the field and the sidelines..].

p-double
11-30-2006, 12:13 PM
joey can't throw the deep ball that is why chambers numbers are down did people read the article about chambers not getting the ball? i like that he has won us some games, but that lions game was the best he played all year passing wise, but he throws too many picks, eventhough culpepper was getting sacked he wasn't turning the ball over, i think that's joey major problem, if it wasn't for the defense in some of those games this streak would not be possible, the d turned it around for us not the offense don't get it twisted

p-double
11-30-2006, 12:18 PM
Who ever thinks that Daunte Culpepper is going to beat out Harrington easily in the offseason is delusional. Three years seperated from his so called "prime" in the Junior Varsity conference, the NFC, and he's going to come back in full stride/pro bowl form? Get a clue.

He didn't even beat out Harrington in this year's preseason, yet he was still named the starter just for the hell out it.

IMO, Joey Harrington will keep improving this year, and then next year there will be a controversy.

I can see it now. We let go of Joey Harrington in the offseason to a team like the Cleveland Browns, he lights it up over there, and we are stuck with Daunte Culpepper.

With Daunte Culpepper as our starter next year, I see just another slow start for our Miami Dolphins, as he still isn't familiar with our offense, the game speed, and lack of reading defense. He still hasn't even proved to be the leader of this team [our team really depends on a motivational leader, something Daunte hasn't shown he can be, something Joey always shows on the field and the sidelines..].


Veritical Limit i see joey has you fooled too, are you saying a healthy c-pep is not beeter that JOey HArrington are you serious really?, has joey lead a team to the playoffs?, does joey have at top 10 passer rating of all-time, has joey almost won the nfl mvp?, even in the games we one except for some rec's dropping passes, he hasn't be great , he is a good backup period!!!!

EAZY 0
11-30-2006, 12:24 PM
Who ever thinks that Daunte Culpepper is going to beat out Harrington easily in the offseason is delusional. Three years seperated from his so called "prime" in the Junior Varsity conference, the NFC, and he's going to come back in full stride/pro bowl form? Get a clue.

He didn't even beat out Harrington in this year's preseason, yet he was still named the starter just for the hell out it.

IMO, Joey Harrington will keep improving this year, and then next year there will be a controversy.

I can see it now. We let go of Joey Harrington in the offseason to a team like the Cleveland Browns, he lights it up over there, and we are stuck with Daunte Culpepper.

With Daunte Culpepper as our starter next year, I see just another slow start for our Miami Dolphins, as he still isn't familiar with our offense, the game speed, and lack of reading defense. He still hasn't even proved to be the leader of this team [our team really depends on a motivational leader, something Daunte hasn't shown he can be, something Joey always shows on the field and the sidelines..].

how fitting that a Harrington d***rider's user name is "Vertical Limit"

because man, does Joey limit our vertical passing game.

DDTDON
11-30-2006, 12:32 PM
WHAT? you think The man that fell flat on his face this year should come back and replace Joey Harrington who has done much better then anyone would have expected, And Carried this team so far?


I wouldn't replace Joey for anyone right now.


:lol: :lol: :lol: You have lost all credibility with that statement. :lol: :lol: :lol:

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 12:34 PM
how fitting that a Harrington d***rider's user name is "Vertical Limit"

If resorting to name calling is your only way of responding to this subject, take it over into the depths please. No need for that here....


because man, does Joey limit our vertical passing game.

5TH in the AFC....:rolleyes:

PHINZ RULE!!!!

rafael
11-30-2006, 12:44 PM
If resorting to name calling is your only way of responding to this subject, take it over into the depths please. No need for that here....



5TH in the AFC....:rolleyes:

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Vertical offense is not measured by yards. It's measured by YPA. This is a fairly simple concept. It's incredible to me that somebody would roll their eyes while saying something so obviously inaccurate. Even Saban just bemoaned the lack of any vertical offense in his last post practice PC.

Vertical Limit
11-30-2006, 12:47 PM
how fitting that a Harrington d***rider's user name is "Vertical Limit"

because man, does Joey limit our vertical passing game.
:rolleyes: LAME.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 01:13 PM
Vertical offense is not measured by yards. It's measured by YPA. This is a fairly simple concept.

It is very simple. The Miami Dolphins "passing offense" ranks 5th in the AFC Conference. I'm sorry there's no "vertical offense" stat to measure our passing offense with. I just go by what they give us at CBS / ESPN / NFL.com. As of today, we're ranked 5th in the conference.....

If you want to judge our passing offense by looking at our "vertical offense" only, then you'll likely never be pleased. Saban / Mularkey don't run that type of offense, and it's likely due to our lack of a running game / and the OL still coming together. Given time, I'm sure that our "vertical offense" will become more visible. Our offense just doesn't have enough play action to go deep all the time in my opinion....


It's incredible to me that somebody would roll their eyes while saying something so obviously inaccurate.

It's not inaccurate, it's fact. The Miami Dolphins passing offense is ranked 5th in AFC Conference, that's a fact. Narrowing it down to "vertical offense", makes no difference to me. It is what it is, and no matter how well Harrington is doing, he'll never be considered a legit starter by some of the fans here. That's there right, and although I don't agree, I'm not going to keep them from expressing it....


Even Saban just bemoaned the lack of any vertical offense in his last post practice PC.

Of course Saban is going to bemoan the lack of a vetical passing game, it's been lacking. That doesn't mean our passing offense isn't doing well, or that Harrington doesn't have the arm to get it deep. Why not just give it time, and see what Saban has up his sleeve. Obviously, he's thinking about trying to get the vertical game more involved....

Bottom Line : Don't blame Harrington for the lack of a vertical offense. It takes an entire team on offense to make it all work, blaming Harrington would be the last person I'd hold accountable....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 01:14 PM
It is very simple. The Miami Dolphins "passing offense" ranks 5th in the AFC Conference. I'm sorry there's no "vertical offense" stat to measure our passing offense with. I just go by what they give us at CBS / ESPN / NFL.com. As of today, we're ranked 5th in the conference.....


PHINZ RULE!!!!

Yards per completion and yards per attempt are pretty good measures of "vertical offense".

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 01:20 PM
Yards per completion and yards per attempt are pretty good measures of "vertical offense".

So take your yards per attempt, and continue to use it as your own means of measuring the lack of our "vertical offense". I personally don't look at it that way, or judge the passing offense as a whole based on one aspect like that....

I look at everything, and then I enter that into the equation. Like the OL / WR's / and the running game. That all factors into having a vertical offense in my opinion....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 01:24 PM
So take your yards per attempt, and continue to use it as your own means of measuring the lack of our "vertical offense". I personally don't look at it that way, or judge the passing offense as a whole based on one aspect like that....

I look at everything, and then I enter that into the equation. Like the OL / WR's / and the running game. That all factors into having a vertical offense in my opinion....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

are you talking about blame or measurement?

Yard per attempt and especially yards per completion are a very good measurement for a Vertical offense.

rafael
11-30-2006, 01:28 PM
It is very simple. The Miami Dolphins "passing offense" ranks 5th in the AFC Conference. I'm sorry there's no "vertical offense" stat to measure our passing offense with. I just go by what they give us at CBS / ESPN / NFL.com. As of today, we're ranked 5th in the conference.....

If you want to judge our passing offense by looking at our "vertical offense" only, then you'll likely never be pleased. Saban / Mularkey don't run that type of offense, and it's likely due to our lack of a running game / and the OL still coming together. Given time, I'm sure that our "vertical offense" will become more visible. Our offense just doesn't have enough play action to go deep all the time in my opinion....



It's not inaccurate, it's fact. The Miami Dolphins passing offense is ranked 5th in AFC Conference, that's a fact. Narrowing it down to "vertical offense", makes no difference to me. It is what it is, and no matter how well Harrington is doing, he'll never be considered a legit starter by some of the fans here. That's there right, and although I don't agree, I'm not going to keep them from expressing it....



Of course Saban is going to bemoan the lack of a vetical passing game, it's been lacking. That doesn't mean our passing offense isn't doing well, or that Harrington doesn't have the arm to get it deep. Why not just give it time, and see what Saban has up his sleeve. Obviously, he's thinking about trying to get the vertical game more involved....

Bottom Line : Don't blame Harrington for the lack of a vertical offense. It takes an entire team on offense to make it all work, blaming Harrington would be the last person I'd hold accountable....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

There is a stat it's called YPA. For some reason you're choosing to ignore it. Fortunately Saban and any good coach doesn't. The fact is that no QB has taken their team to a SB within the last 20 years with a YPA as low as what JH has right now. Saban knows it has to get better if this team is going to succeed. So yes, he is seperating out the vertical portion. He is also saying that the skill players are there we just hope that JH's growing confidence will start translating into him getting it to those receivers. Bottom line is Saban is saying JH is the one that needs to improve.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 01:44 PM
Fine, Harrington's YPA are not acceptable, and therefore we have no "vertical offense". What's next?? Is there anything Harrington does correctly in the eyes of these fans?? It's become ridiculous....

PHINZ RULE!!!

hof13
11-30-2006, 01:56 PM
Fine, Harrington's YPA are not acceptable, and therefore we have no "vertical offense". What's next?? Is there anything Harrington does correctly in the eyes of these fans?? It's become ridiculous....

PHINZ RULE!!!

I like his attitude.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 01:57 PM
Fine, Harrington's YPA are not acceptable, and therefore we have no "vertical offense". What's next?? Is there anything Harrington does correctly in the eyes of these fans?? It's become ridiculous....

PHINZ RULE!!!

wow, talk about dramatizing the situation.

hof13
11-30-2006, 01:58 PM
wow, talk about dramatizing the situation.

You know, the really sad thing about this thread is Culpepper didn't even attend pratice on the 29th.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 01:58 PM
I like his attitude.

a lot of people just like acting childish when you are discussing football. If you mention something positive you are a "blank" lover, if you mention something negative you are a "blank" hater.

Some people can't look at things for what they are. They have to just go to one extreme to another. You can only be a hater or a lover, there is no middle ground.

hof13
11-30-2006, 02:01 PM
a lot of people just like acting childish when you are discussing football. If you mention something positive you are a "blank" lover, if you mention something negative you are a "blank" hater.

Some people can't look at things for what they are. They have to just go to one extreme to another. You can only be a hater or a lover, there is no middle ground.

I hear ya, brother.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 02:02 PM
wow, talk about dramatizing the situation.

You guys are the one's dramatizing, and trying to find anything possible {fact / fiction} in order to knock Harrington as our starting QB. It's really become sad....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 02:04 PM
You guys are the one's dramatizing, and trying to find anything possible {fact / fiction} in order to knock Harrington as our starting QB. It's really become sad....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

It doesn't take much effort. It is not like people are nickpicking and finding every little thing. YPC is HUGE, YPA is pretty big, Completion % is pretty big and also pass accuracy is huge as well.

It is almost like you can't have a simple discussion without someone trying to act like you hate the guy. That is what is sad.

hof13
11-30-2006, 02:09 PM
You guys are the one's dramatizing, and trying to find anything possible {fact / fiction} in order to knock Harrington as our starting QB. It's really become sad....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

What fiction? I'm curious. If I see fiction posted, I generally try to refute it.

macblastr
11-30-2006, 02:11 PM
you know it is possible that culpepper will never be a starter and joey is nothing more than a backup quarterback and miami still needs a quarterback.

just a thought.

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 02:23 PM
Vertical offense is not measured by yards. It's measured by YPA. This is a fairly simple concept. It's incredible to me that somebody would roll their eyes while saying something so obviously inaccurate. Even Saban just bemoaned the lack of any vertical offense in his last post practice PC.

:yeahthat: I could care less about yards. YPA is what it's about.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 02:26 PM
It doesn't take much effort. It is not like people are nickpicking and finding every little thing. YPC is HUGE, YPA is pretty big, Completion % is pretty big and also pass accuracy is huge as well.

I understand how upset you must be now that Culpepper is clinging to his NFL career by a thread, but give it a rest already. No matter what stat you throw at Harrington, his winning % is the one that matters the most. That's HUGE...


It is almost like you can't have a simple discussion without someone trying to act like you hate the guy. That is what is sad.

I thought I was having a simple discussion. I haven't insulted anyone for having an opinion on this subject, but I have been known to disagree. So in your opinion, it's sad that I disagree??...

I'm done debating Harrington's YPA. I find it meaningless, just like last week's "Harrington's passer rating" threads were. I think the kid is doing a very admirable job all things considered....

PHINZ RULE!!!

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 02:31 PM
You guys are the one's dramatizing, and trying to find anything possible {fact / fiction} in order to knock Harrington as our starting QB. It's really become sad....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Wow man, I don't think I've ever seen someone be so emotionally attached to one player. Just because we bring up some stats doesn't mean we hate the guy. In this thread alone 2/3 of the people here are the ones bashing Daunte.

He's too dumb = bashing

His YPA is low = discussion

Learn the difference

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 02:32 PM
I understand how upset you must be now that Culpepper is clinging to his NFL career by a thread, but give it a rest already. No matter what stat you throw at Harrington, his winning % is the one that matters the most. That's HUGE...



I thought I was having a simple discussion. I haven't insulted anyone for having an opinion on this subject, but I have been known to disagree. So in your opinion, it's sad that I disagree??...

I'm done debating Harrington's YPA. I find it meaningless, just like last week's "Harrington's passer rating" threads were. I think the kid is doing a very admirable job all things considered....

PHINZ RULE!!!

Passer ratings mean less the YPA. Harrington's career record is worse than Dauntes. Daunte won't even be on the field until next year, it's Harrington's team for the rest of the year.

Well....maybe not if we lose to Jax ;)

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 02:43 PM
I understand how upset you must be now that Culpepper is clinging to his NFL career by a thread, but give it a rest already. No matter what stat you throw at Harrington, his winning % is the one that matters the most. That's HUGE...



I thought I was having a simple discussion. I haven't insulted anyone for having an opinion on this subject, but I have been known to disagree. So in your opinion, it's sad that I disagree??...

I'm done debating Harrington's YPA. I find it meaningless, just like last week's "Harrington's passer rating" threads were. I think the kid is doing a very admirable job all things considered....

PHINZ RULE!!!

Always bring it back to Culpepper. It is so laughable as it is sad.

It is sad to form an opinion of dramitization and trying to call someone a hater just because he disagrees with you. Or saying that they are a Culpepper fan because they just see negative aspects of Harrington's game. It is sad that you form an opinion that if I don't believe Harrington is a greek god and totally responsible for all of Miami's wins that I am some hater who is just looking for him to fail. It is sad that you can't tell the difference between honest discussion and hating.

Plus it is sad that you think YPA is meaningless.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 02:52 PM
Wow man, I don't think I've ever seen someone be so emotionally attached to one player.

There's no need to get emotionally attached to any one player in my opinion. Too many things can change, like the "starting QB" for instance. I'm more of a team supporter, and what's best for the team is how I choose to do things....


Just because we bring up some stats doesn't mean we hate the guy.

So when I bring up Culpepper's stats, and discuss how horrible they have been for two consecutive seasons, that doesn't mean I hate the guy....


In this thread alone 2/3 of the people here are the ones bashing Daunte.

As it probably should be. Culpepper has done nothing to deserve any credit, he's done nothing to improve the current state of our offense, and until he does, he should be the QB everyone is ridiculing, not Harrington....


He's too dumb = bashing

His YPA is low = discussion

Learn the difference

Learn the difference in what?? You're own personal opinion of what this thread is all about??? okay.....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 03:06 PM
There's no need to get emotionally attached to any one player in my opinion. Too many things can change, like the "starting QB" for instance. I'm more of a team supporter, and what's best for the team is how I choose to do things....

To me it seems when anyone makes any type of critisism about Joey it's automatically considered hating. That sounds a little emotionally attached to me.



So when I bring up Culpepper's stats, and discuss how horrible they have been for two consecutive seasons, that doesn't mean I hate the guy....

Okay, Joey's had horrible stats his entire career. Doesn't mean I hate the guy. In 2005, Culpepper had two HORRIBLE games and then the rest of the games he didn't do too bad stats wise. Hell, he didn't even throw an INT in the last two games he played this year, the knee just makes Culpepper not Culpepper. He gets sacked a bit (most mobile QBs do) but he was getting sacked almost 100% more on average per game than his career. Lots of months left until training camp next year.




As it probably should be. Culpepper has done nothing to deserve any credit, he's done nothing to improve the current state of our offense, and until he does, he should be the QB everyone is ridiculing, not Harrington....

Harrington really deserves a lot of credit? Sorry man, but the defense is playing so much better since they put Bell in there. The fact is, in 4 of the 7 games we've played under Harrington, there has been stretches of 1/2 or more that we haven't scored any points. That tells me that other than the Lions game, it's been all about the defense. Kind of like when Fiedler was here. ;) Culpepper shouldn't even be properly evaluated this year. You notice how crappy Carson Palmer was playing earlier in the year? He was taking a career amount of sacks. Now that he's finally getting some confidence in his knee he's playing lights out again.



Learn the difference in what?? You're own personal opinion of what this thread is all about??? okay.....

Are you serious. Learn the difference between criticism and bashing. It has nothing to do with my opinion. Calling someone dumb is bashing, saying someone's YPA is low is criticism. Wow man, just wow.

hof13
11-30-2006, 03:08 PM
...As it probably should be. Culpepper has done nothing to deserve any credit, he's done nothing to improve the current state of our offense, and until he does, he should be the QB everyone is ridiculing, not Harrington....

And that's really the heart of it. Some people think it's OK to ridicule Culpepper because other people use objective means to grade Harrington.

Sad.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 03:21 PM
Always bring it back to Culpepper. It is so laughable as it is sad.

.....And you always bring it back to Harrington. :rolleyes:


It is sad to form an opinion of dramitization and trying to call someone a hater just because he disagrees with you. Or saying that they are a Culpepper fan because they just see negative aspects of Harrington's game

This is a message board, and what is written is basically the only way to form an opinion of one members opinion to another...What? am I suppose to use osmosis from now on??..:lol: You're clearly not a supporter of Harrington at QB, and that's the obvious truth. Anyone can see that just by reading your responses....


It is sad that you form an opinion that if I don't believe Harrington is a greek god and totally responsible for all of Miami's wins that I am some hater who is just looking for him to fail.

I'm not blind, I've been reading your posts for weeks, and you still give Harrington very little credit to this day. That's someone I usually tend to file as someone apposed to Harrington as our starting QB. I'm merely calling a spade a spade....

If your not a Harrington hater, then let it be known. It's as simple as that, instead of making ridiculous excuses as a means / reason to dislike him, say something positive. If you can't do that, how is one suppose to view your personal opinion???...


It is sad that you can't tell the difference between honest discussion and hating.

Reading your negative responses in regards to Harrington, it's not very difficult differenciating between the two. Your "honest discussion theory" reeks in my opinion....


Plus it is sad that you think YPA is meaningless.

It's sad that you can't grasp the fact that despite his YPA, he's helped us win four games in a row. How about Harrington's passing yards per game??...Why not use that stat instead??...Oh I forgot, he's ranked too high for that....:lol:

PHINZ RULE!!!

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 03:42 PM
.....And you always bring it back to Harrington. :rolleyes:

I'm not blind, I've been reading your posts for weeks, and you still give Harrington very little credit to this day. That's someone I usually tend to file as someone apposed to Harrington as our starting QB. I'm merely calling a spade a spade....

If your not a Harrington hater, then let it be known. It's as simple as that, instead of making ridiculous excuses as a means / reason to dislike him, say something positive. If you can't do that, how is one suppose to view your personal opinion???...

Reading your negative responses in regards to Harrington, it's not very difficult differenciating between the two. Your "honest discussion theory" reeks in my opinion....


It's sad that you can't grasp the fact that despite his YPA, he's helped us win four games in a row. How about Harrington's passing yards per game??...Why not use that stat instead??...Oh I forgot, he's ranked too high for that....:lol:

PHINZ RULE!!!

He is freaking playing.

Well your thinking is flawed. I give Harrington the credit where it is due. He has some good halves and some horrible halves. Make some good throws and some decent throws and some horrible throws. You are making something up. Basically saying if you don't love Harrington you hate him which is not true.

I am not a Harrington hater. I have no reason to hate on Harrington. Inaccuracy and bad throws and low YPA is not ridiculous reason to say something negative about. I am not saying something stupid like he can't play in the NFL or all his success was an illusion or he just can't read a defense. You don't need to nick pick Harrington because his faults are as clear as day. He has played ONE good full game and that was against the WORST passing defense in terms of completion percentage of ALL TIME(so far).

Apperently you love Harrington so much that you are blind to his faults. And somehow pointing them out and talking about how they need to improve is hating. It is unfortunate that some people are so close minded.

Yards per attempt is a more telling stat than total yards. There is a reason it is used in computing quarterback ratings. There are 45 players helping Miami win. I guess Harrington is the only one that gets a pass on his medicore play. I guess all this time Jacox and Chambers and Olindo and all of the other players that people are talking about not playing well are actually playing great because Miami has 4 wins.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 04:07 PM
You are making something up. Basically saying if you don't love Harrington you hate him which is not true.

No, I never said that if you don't love Harrington, that you hate him. You just said that, not me. I said you give him no credit, and that you're obviously not one of his supporters. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see how clear that is.....


I am not a Harrington hater. I have no reason to hate on Harrington. Inaccuracy and bad throws and low YPA is not ridiculous reason to say something negative about.

Ok, you're not a hater, you just enjoy bringing up anything negative in regards to him as our starting QB. The difference is that you're calling it discussion, while I call it negativity....


He has played ONE good full game and that was against the WORST passing defense in terms of completion percentage of ALL TIME(so far).

You just lost all credibility with that response in my opinion. You must not watch much football, Harrington has been making strides weekly, and is one of the main reasons behind our recent offensive improvements.....


Apperently you love Harrington so much that you are blind to his faults. And somehow pointing them out and talking about how they need to improve is hating. It is unfortunate that some people are so close minded.

I'm not blind to his faults, but when I look at the difference between him, and the other options we have at QB this year, I'll take him over Culpepper / Lemon any day of the week. His faults are there, and no QB is without them, just look at how horrible Culpepper was over the last two seasons. I want this team to win, it's that simple. Harrington is getting the job done, and yet we still have fans anxiously awaiting his next mistep so they can say "I told you so".....Lame.


Yards per attempt is a more telling stat than total yards.

Based on what???...

PHINZ RULE!!!!

hof13
11-30-2006, 04:15 PM
... His faults are there, and no QB is without them, just look at how horrible Culpepper was over the last two seasons. ...

See, it's stuff like that. You say Culpepper was "horrible" in 2005 as proof that he can't play, but in fact he played better in his 1st 6 games than Harrington did in his 1st 6.

You say Culpepper was "horrible" in 2006 when all you can point at is sacks - and then put the entire blame on Culpepper and none on the oline (and others in max protect).

You're just a hater.

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 04:19 PM
You're just a hater.

No problem, I can live with someone calling me that. It's just a word.....

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 04:21 PM
No, I never said that if you don't love Harrington, that you hate him. You just said that, not me. I said you give him no credit, and that you're obviously not one of his supporters. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to see how clear that is.....



Ok, you're not a hater, you just enjoy bringing up anything negative in regards to him as our starting QB. The difference is that you're calling it discussion, while I call it negativity....



You just lost all credibility with that response in my opinion. You must not watch much football, Harrington has been making strides weekly, and is one of the main reasons behind our recent offensive improvements.....



I'm not blind to his faults, but when I look at the difference between him, and the other options we have at QB this year, I'll take him over Culpepper / Lemon any day of the week. His faults are there, and no QB is without them, just look at how horrible Culpepper was over the last two seasons. I want this team to win, it's that simple. Harrington is getting the job done, and yet we still have fans anxiously awaiting his next mistep so they can say "I told you so".....Lame.



Based on what???...

PHINZ RULE!!!!

Main reason for offensive improvement has been blocking and better play calling.

I watch a lot of football. I watched enough to know that giving up 68.5% completion percentage is horrible.

I guess we just have different ideas of what getting the job done.

Based on watching football games and understanding football. Plus it is known as one of the most telling stats in passing.

Plus I enjoy talking football. I don't enjoy looking at negatives and calling them positives because it makes me feel better or something stupid like that. Plus the fact does remain that Harrington only had one good full game. In fact if it wasn't for wide reciever drops that game would of probably of been excellent and Miami could of maybe even scored 40 points on Detroit. Still I want to see more games like that, because I need actual PROOF and FACTS and ACTUAL GOOD GAME PLAY, before I say someone is playing good.

I never understood the people who think, "Team is winning, quarterback is awesome." Just seems so simplistic and wrong and so little understanding of football as a team sport.

rdhstlr23
11-30-2006, 04:31 PM
All we heard around the East during TC was how culpepper was ahead of schedule with his knee reconstruction. How he'd be ready for the start of the season, how he'd be a pro bowler. Rodney Harrision had the same knee injury yet he was able to start the season on opening day and played every game up until his broken shoulder injury vs the colts. How come Harrision whos position is way more physical than culpepper was able to rehab in less than a year but mr pro bowl now over a year is still riding the pine? I don't believe he's riding the pine because of his knee at all. He's riding the pine because he's a bust, he is what he was his last few seasons in minny and its all become clear now why they were so willing to unload him. What do you want to bet he gets traded this off season? Well I hear Drew Bledsoe is available for starting duty only and Mularkey likes him to boot. :sidelol:

Good Lord. All we need is a Patriot coming in and saying Rodney Harrison is a better healer than Daunte. You also like to forget the fact Rodney Harrison hurt his knee in week 3, while Daunte Culpepper hurt his in week 7 last year. So you're looking at a month-2 months more of recovery time. Of course, Rodney Harrison should be better suited. Daunte was hurt midseason last year. Is what he is his last few seasons in Minny? His last year was his worst. Look at everything else it's ridiculous. He's riding the pine, but he can't play and doesn't fit the personnel we put out their on the OLine, nor the play-calling installed by Mularkey right now. He's medically cleared to play, but his....you know what screw it. It's been beaten to death. Think what you want. I don't give a crap about your dynasty we went 17-0...beat that.

demon
11-30-2006, 04:50 PM
See, it's stuff like that. You say Culpepper was "horrible" in 2005 as proof that he can't play, but in fact he played better in his 1st 6 games than Harrington did in his 1st 6.

You say Culpepper was "horrible" in 2006 when all you can point at is sacks - and then put the entire blame on Culpepper and none on the oline (and others in max protect).

You're just a hater.

See this is where you're wrong in your defense of Culpepper. Joey and Daunte had almost the exact same stats in the first 6 games but there was a big difference. There were a few differences actually. Joey was in a new system with new terminology so his knowledge of the system was less than that of Daunte. When Joey got into the game the offense some how started moving the ball more efficiently because they weren't taking so many sacks. The downfall of that was the interceptions by Harrington. Granted some were not his fault, but he needs to take better care of the ball.
You can argue YPC,YPA, passing % all you want. Thos stats are mainly meant for fantasy football anymore. The only real stats that matter are in the win loss column in which Joey has 4 wins to Daunte's 1 win. This is all that matters right now because its a team sport. The defense isn't doing it with JT alone. So why should the only person on offense be Joey OR DAUNTE

rdhstlr23
11-30-2006, 04:54 PM
See this is where you're wrong in your defense of Culpepper. Joey and Daunte had almost the exact same stats in the first 6 games but there was a big difference. There were a few differences actually. Joey was in a new system with new terminology so his knowledge of the system was less than that of Daunte. When Joey got into the game the offense some how started moving the ball more efficiently because they weren't taking so many sacks. The downfall of that was the interceptions by Harrington. Granted some were not his fault, but he needs to take better care of the ball.
You can argue YPC,YPA, passing % all you want. Thos stats are mainly meant for fantasy football anymore. The only real stats that matter are in the win loss column in which Joey has 4 wins to Daunte's 1 win. This is all that matters right now because its a team sport. The defense isn't doing it with JT alone. So why should the only person on offense be Joey OR DAUNTE

But it didn't improve what mattered most...on the scoreboard. Like Daunte, Joey Harrington could only score in a 2 minute offense. They both played like crap. I don't care who's playing, I just want to win.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 05:07 PM
Good Lord. All we need is a Patriot coming in and saying Rodney Harrison is a better healer than Daunte. You also like to forget the fact Rodney Harrison hurt his knee in week 3, while Daunte Culpepper hurt his in week 7 last year. So you're looking at a month-2 months more of recovery time. Of course, Rodney Harrison should be better suited. Daunte was hurt midseason last year. Is what he is his last few seasons in Minny? His last year was his worst. Look at everything else it's ridiculous. He's riding the pine, but he can't play and doesn't fit the personnel we put out their on the OLine, nor the play-calling installed by Mularkey right now. He's medically cleared to play, but his....you know what screw it. It's been beaten to death. Think what you want. I don't give a crap about your dynasty we went 17-0...beat that.

You weren't even a twinkle in your parents eye when that happened son. If El Daunte wasn't ready to play then I guess Saban isn't as good a personnel man as everyone thought seeing he started him. From what I saw though Culpeppers problem wasn't his knee it was his brain...It runs too slow for the game at hand. :wink:

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 05:20 PM
Main reason for offensive improvement has been blocking and better play calling.

The blocking improved because of Harrington, did it not??....

The playcalling is opening up, and much of that is due to Harrington making quick decisions behind center. Once again, the drop off in sacks allowed is a HUGE reason for our offensive success...


I never understood the people who think, "Team is winning, quarterback is awesome." Just seems so simplistic and wrong and so little understanding of football as a team sport.

I don't understand them either....

Harrington isn't awesome by any means, but he's the best QB we have on the roster right now. He's also been making progress over the last several weeks, which is something to take into account when all is said and done, and we're heading into the 2007 season....

PHINZ RULE!!!

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 05:32 PM
You can argue YPC,YPA, passing % all you want. Thos stats are mainly meant for fantasy football anymore.


See I believe yards are more about fantasy football. YPA and Comp % are much more telling stats IMO.

rafael
11-30-2006, 05:35 PM
See this is where you're wrong in your defense of Culpepper. Joey and Daunte had almost the exact same stats in the first 6 games but there was a big difference. There were a few differences actually. Joey was in a new system with new terminology so his knowledge of the system was less than that of Daunte. When Joey got into the game the offense some how started moving the ball more efficiently because they weren't taking so many sacks. The downfall of that was the interceptions by Harrington. Granted some were not his fault, but he needs to take better care of the ball.
You can argue YPC,YPA, passing % all you want. Thos stats are mainly meant for fantasy football anymore. The only real stats that matter are in the win loss column in which Joey has 4 wins to Daunte's 1 win. This is all that matters right now because its a team sport. The defense isn't doing it with JT alone. So why should the only person on offense be Joey OR DAUNTE

Actually they didn't have the same stats, DC's YPA and comp % were considerably higher. And the offense was completely changed when they switched to Harrington. They went to a quick pass offense b/c they realized that the OL couldn't block long enough and that JH couldn't throw deep. This is obvious to people who understand football, but even if you don't Saban has said several times that they changed the offense when they switched to JH.

And no YPA is not a fantasy stat. This is clear to anyone who has been paying attention for the last 20 years b/c no QB has made it to the SB with a YPA below 6.5 during that time. And it it's far too simplistic to claim that winning is the only thing that matters. By your criteria Fiedler was a better QB than Marino.

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 05:35 PM
Harrington isn't awesome by any means, but he's the best QB we have on the roster right now. He's also been making progress over the last several weeks, which is something to take into account when all is said and done, and we're heading into the 2007 season....


100% agreement here. TC should be an open competition. If Joey keeps improving now and throughout the offseason, he'll probably have a decent chance of beating Culpepper. He's going to have to keep improving though, he's not there yet.

rdhstlr23
11-30-2006, 05:37 PM
You weren't even a twinkle in your parents eye when that happened son. If El Daunte wasn't ready to play then I guess Saban isn't as good a personnel man as everyone thought seeing he started him. From what I saw though Culpeppers problem wasn't his knee it was his brain...It runs too slow for the game at hand. :wink:

So me not being around makes it less impressive? Thanks for the lesson though pops. I guess it ran too slow in 2004 too huh? You know that season where he put up astounding numbers without Randy Moss for 3 games, and Randy had his worst season as a Viking. But of course Daunte just throws it up Randy....At least you'll shutup about Rondy now.

rafael
11-30-2006, 05:42 PM
Fine, Harrington's YPA are not acceptable, and therefore we have no "vertical offense". What's next?? Is there anything Harrington does correctly in the eyes of these fans?? It's become ridiculous....

PHINZ RULE!!!

If you really had been paying attention then you would have known that my position has never changed. I said in the offseason (after I lobbied for the JH trade) that I didn't think JH was a starter b/c his comp % and YPA have always been poor. Then during the preseason I said JH hadn't shown anything new b/c his comp % and YPA were no better than his career avgs. Ditto for his performance in his first 4 games. After the Detroit game I said that he had played very well (he had better comp % and YPA). Do you see a trend here? This what it takes to be a successful NFL QB. He didn't do it for 4 games and I said so. Then he did it for 1 game and I said so.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 05:53 PM
The blocking improved because of Harrington, did it not??....

The playcalling is opening up, and much of that is due to Harrington making quick decisions behind center. Once again, the drop off in sacks allowed is a HUGE reason for our offensive success...



I don't understand them either....

Harrington isn't awesome by any means, but he's the best QB we have on the roster right now. He's also been making progress over the last several weeks, which is something to take into account when all is said and done, and we're heading into the 2007 season....

PHINZ RULE!!!

Blocking improved because McIntosh was moved to Left Tackle and SHelton was moved to right guard.

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 05:54 PM
Blocking improved because McIntosh was moved to Left Tackle and SHelton was moved to right guard.

:yeahthat: and it dramatically improved the running game as well

BLITZKRIEG
11-30-2006, 06:03 PM
Blocking improved because McIntosh was moved to Left Tackle and SHelton was moved to right guard.

The OL still isn't very good. They suck at run blocking, and if it weren't for Harrington making quicker decisions, he'd be getting sacked a lot more often. I think Harrington is the main reason behind the recent decline in "sacks allowed", not so much the OL adjustments....

PHINZ RULE!!!!!

Dolfan984
11-30-2006, 06:06 PM
The OL still isn't very good. They suck at run blocking, and if it weren't for Harrington making quicker decisions, he'd be getting sacked a lot more often. I think Harrington is the main reason behind the recent decline in "sacks allowed", not so much the OL adjustments....

PHINZ RULE!!!!!

It's both IMO. Harrington is the least sacked QB in NFL history in terms of sacks per drop back. Still, the coaches are calling more short drops to play to Harrington's strength. They called longer routes for Daunte which is his strength. Remember, the Dolphins were the 2nd least sacked team in the league last year. O-lines take time to gel.

Dol-Fan Dupree
11-30-2006, 06:07 PM
The OL still isn't very good. They suck at run blocking, and if it weren't for Harrington making quicker decisions, he'd be getting sacked a lot more often. I think Harrington is the main reason behind the recent decline in "sacks allowed", not so much the OL adjustments....

PHINZ RULE!!!!!

Harrington was sacked 5 times in two games before the move. Since that move he has been sacked 3 times in 7.

They don't totally suck at run blocking. Since the move they only had one bad run blocking game, which was Minnasota. They blocked for over 150 yards against the Bears, who does have a good run defense.

Dolfan4life!
11-30-2006, 06:25 PM
See this is where you're wrong in your defense of Culpepper. Joey and Daunte had almost the exact same stats in the first 6 games but there was a big difference. There were a few differences actually. Joey was in a new system with new terminology so his knowledge of the system was less than that of Daunte. When Joey got into the game the offense some how started moving the ball more efficiently because they weren't taking so many sacks. The downfall of that was the interceptions by Harrington. Granted some were not his fault, but he needs to take better care of the ball.
You can argue YPC,YPA, passing % all you want. Thos stats are mainly meant for fantasy football anymore. The only real stats that matter are in the win loss column in which Joey has 4 wins to Daunte's 1 win. This is all that matters right now because its a team sport. The defense isn't doing it with JT alone. So why should the only person on offense be Joey OR DAUNTE
I'm not saying they don't exist, but I've never seen a fantasy football league that awards points for YPC, YPA or passing %.

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 06:32 PM
So me not being around makes it less impressive? Thanks for the lesson though pops. I guess it ran too slow in 2004 too huh? You know that season where he put up astounding numbers without Randy Moss for 3 games, and Randy had his worst season as a Viking. But of course Daunte just throws it up Randy....At least you'll shutup about Rondy now.

Neither you or Daunte (who has sucked for a long time:sidelol: ) are worth arguing over, homer

rdhstlr23
11-30-2006, 08:09 PM
Neither you or Daunte (who has sucked for a long time:sidelol: ) are worth arguing over, homer

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133263

Sheesh, I guess if that's sucking for a long time, you might want to re-evaluate that QB position of yours in NE. Of course, you're going to respond with 3 SBs. I then say, well I guess Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, and Kurt Warner were all QBs that are great QBs and should be considered greats.

Ya, it makes sense to be a homer on a board that supports my team. Go back to the Pats board and jag off to pictures of Rodney Harrison

MR NFLFAN
11-30-2006, 09:01 PM
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133263

Sheesh, I guess if that's sucking for a long time, you might want to re-evaluate that QB position of yours in NE. Of course, you're going to respond with 3 SBs. I then say, well I guess Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, and Kurt Warner were all QBs that are great QBs and should be considered greats.

Ya, it makes sense to be a homer on a board that supports my team. Go back to the Pats board and jag off to pictures of Rodney Harrison


Nice going Dick wad. I knew you bring this tread down to your home section. Depths of the **** pit is where you belong anyway. :shakeno:

rdhstlr23
11-30-2006, 09:28 PM
Haha, boy you really are a piece of ****.