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Motion
01-10-2007, 01:29 PM
Couture coming out of retirement as a Heavyweight to fight Tim Sylvia for the title at UFC 68.

What a joke!

Even if/when he does win he'll have to defend against Cro Cop and get permanently retired.

FinsNYanksFan13
01-10-2007, 02:32 PM
That's why they should no longer let ex boxers and UFC fighters do commentary when their retired. They sit ringside and watch all of these fights and then think they can do it again even though they can't. This is another way for UFC to make money off another old name. UFC has already taken plenty of money from fans by throwing old big names like Shamrock and Gracie into the octagon and getting them to believe these guys still had a chance against elite fighters when in reality their done at the highest levels of their sport. I don't know how much Couture has left in the tank but I'm going to pass on this one. UFC is turning into the WWE when they do this. Instead of putting young, up and coming guys on headline PPV's they continue to recycle these old guys. It's just like the WWE still sending Hogan, Flair, Piper, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and all these guys out there even though their well past their prime (with maybe the exception of Triple H)!

MikeO
01-10-2007, 02:48 PM
Well HBK isn't past his prime he can still go, but I get your point.

Tim Sylvia sucks, he's just big. Randy will probably beat him, problem is where does Randy go from there. Hopefully he will just retire as a champion, but I don't see that happening!!

Motion
01-10-2007, 03:21 PM
Well HBK isn't past his prime he can still go, but I get your point.

Tim Sylvia sucks, he's just big. Randy will probably beat him, problem is where does Randy go from there. Hopefully he will just retire as a champion, but I don't see that happening!!

Dana's setting up a Cro Cop vs. Arlovski title fight. One of them will take on the winner of this fight then he'll get his match up.

bullseyeguy
01-10-2007, 05:59 PM
I dont know what to think about this, I love Randy and think he can still go, but dont want to see him back for 1 or 2 fights against the champ...I think the UFC has a new dedication to strengthening the HW division, and they are probably bringing him back as name recognition...I just wish they would have him fight a non champ...

CharlestonPhan
01-13-2007, 01:21 PM
I dont know what to think about this, I love Randy and think he can still go, but dont want to see him back for 1 or 2 fights against the champ...I think the UFC has a new dedication to strengthening the HW division, and they are probably bringing him back as name recognition...I just wish they would have him fight a non champ...

Randy signed a 4 fight deal. the heavyweight division in UFC is just stale, so they were left with little choice but tobring in a name guy to fight the Maineiac.

who else is there? Sylvia vs Arlovsky have fought three times.

Cro Cop will get his chance, and will beat either Sylvia or Randy (as much as i respect him).

but then what? if they dont string it out for awhile, they wont have a chance to develop any other fighters for Cro Cop to fight, that wil draw any interest. so they would be right back where they are now, except Cro Cop will be champ with no legit contenders. unless they continue to sign away PRIDE fighters who he has already faced.

they will feed Cro Cop a few people to establish him to the US fan base that is only aware of the UFC product. he will have a few highlight reel kick -to-the-head KO's, and in the meantime they will feed the Sylvia vs Couture some cannon fodder til they can match them up.

ckb2001
01-13-2007, 05:28 PM
Randy signed a 4 fight deal. the heavyweight division in UFC is just stale, so they were left with little choice but tobring in a name guy to fight the Maineiac.

who else is there? Sylvia vs Arlovsky have fought three times.

Cro Cop will get his chance, and will beat either Sylvia or Randy (as much as i respect him).

but then what? if they dont string it out for awhile, they wont have a chance to develop any other fighters for Cro Cop to fight, that wil draw any interest. so they would be right back where they are now, except Cro Cop will be champ with no legit contenders. unless they continue to sign away PRIDE fighters who he has already faced.

they will feed Cro Cop a few people to establish him to the US fan base that is only aware of the UFC product. he will have a few highlight reel kick -to-the-head KO's, and in the meantime they will feed the Sylvia vs Couture some cannon fodder til they can match them up.


One new name on the list is Brandon Vera. But, yes, they need to strengthen the heavyweight division in the UFC (lightweight too).

bullseyeguy
01-13-2007, 05:33 PM
Vera and Herring are both quality opponents for Sylvia, but Ive warmed up to Randy coming back, especially if he signed a 4 fight deal...The only thing that I wonder about is who does he fight if he loses to Tim, I guess he could be a stepping stone to some younger fighters....

ckb2001
01-13-2007, 05:38 PM
Vera and Herring are both quality opponents for Sylvia, but Ive warmed up to Randy coming back, especially if he signed a 4 fight deal...The only thing that I wonder about is who does he fight if he loses to Tim, I guess he could be a stepping stone to some younger fighters....

Seriously though, Couture doesn't fare that well against guys that are much heavier than he is. Sylvia is 60 lb heavier than Couture, so as much as I would like to see Couture win, I fear he will lose to Sylvia.

bullseyeguy
01-13-2007, 05:38 PM
One new name on the list is Brandon Vera. But, yes, they need to strengthen the heavyweight division in the UFC (lightweight too).
I think the LW division is actually pretty solid, they just dont seem to be putting together strong fights with their fighters....
Sean Sherk
Jens Pulver
BJ Penn
Joe Stevenson
Spencer Fisher
Hermes Franca
Kenny Florian
Tyson Griffin
Melvin Guillard

bullseyeguy
01-13-2007, 05:40 PM
Seriously though, Couture doesn't fare that well against guys that are much heavier than he is. Sylvia is 60 lb heavier than Couture, so as much as I would like to see Couture win, I fear he will lose to Sylvia.Oh, Im almost positive that Sylvia will win, which makes me wonder if White and the boys just want to give Tim a legitimate name to beat to give him some cred...Since obviously, he is the most hated champ in MMA...

wazzy
01-13-2007, 05:40 PM
If he loses to Tim it would be a horrible move for UFC considering Coutore probably got a good contract and I don't think he can beat Arlovsky or Cro Cop so he would have to fight Vera and win just to get his name up again so he can get punched out by Cro Cop or Arlovsky!

ckb2001
01-13-2007, 05:42 PM
If he loses to Tim it would be a horrible move for UFC considering Coutore probably got a good contract and I don't think he can beat Arlovsky or Cro Cop so he would have to fight Vera and win just to get his name up again so he can get punched out by Cro Cop or Arlovsky!

I don't know.. I think Couture has a very good chance against Arlovski (I'd probably pick Couture over Arlovski) and would do well against Cro Cop (though I'd probably go with Cro Cop if I had to bet). I just think Sylvia is the kind of opponent he can't beat easily.

ckb2001
01-13-2007, 05:51 PM
I think the LW division is actually pretty solid, they just dont seem to be putting together strong fights with their fighters....
Sean Sherk
Jens Pulver
BJ Penn
Joe Stevenson
Spencer Fisher
Hermes Franca
Kenny Florian
Tyson Griffin
Melvin Guillard




Take a look at the rankings from MMA weekly:
http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/topten.asp?articleid=8&zoneid=15

"LIGHTWEIGHT DIVISION (160 pounds and lower)

#1 Lightweight Fighter in the World: Takanori Gomi

2. Hayato Sakurai

3. Gilbert Melendez

4. Tatsuya Kawajiri

5. Vitor "Shaolin" Ribeiro

6. Shinya Aoki

7. Joachim Hansen

8. Norifumi "Kid" Yamamoto

9. Mitsuhiro Ishida

10. Sean Sherk"
----------------------------

How many are in the UFC? The UFC lightweight champ is ranked #10. There is really no question which division is the weakest in the UFC: the lightweight.

bullseyeguy
01-13-2007, 05:55 PM
I think that if the UFC showcased a few of these guys, atleast give them more fights, that the rankings would be different...If they would match them up better, the LW division would be pretty good, but obvioulsy the rankings show a huge disparity...I wish Shaolin and Fireball Kid were in the UFC though....

ckb2001
01-13-2007, 06:00 PM
I think that if the UFC showcased a few of these guys, atleast give them more fights, that the rankings would be different...If they would match them up better, the LW division would be pretty good, but obvioulsy the rankings show a huge disparity...I wish Shaolin and Fireball Kid were in the UFC though....

Well, BJ did beat Gomi, so that's a plus, but the rankings will probably change significantly only when they get some of the top-notch guys here. You'll notice from MMA weekly that all the other weight classes are evenly split between PRIDE and UFC except the welterweight where the UFC dominates. So, at least for now, the LW is definitely the weakest class.

CharlestonPhan
01-15-2007, 11:42 AM
Seriously though, Couture doesn't fare that well against guys that are much heavier than he is. Sylvia is 60 lb heavier than Couture, so as much as I would like to see Couture win, I fear he will lose to Sylvia.

i think Randy can out wrestle Sylvia, control him on the ground, and win a really boring 3 round decision.

if Randy is still under the (false) impression he can stand and trade punches with people, Sylvia will eventually knock him out. Randy is a wrestler, those skills and his cardio are what seperated him from the pack when he was champ. he became a decent striker on his feet, but nothing more.

CharlestonPhan
01-15-2007, 11:44 AM
Vera and Herring are both quality opponents for Sylvia, but Ive warmed up to Randy coming back, especially if he signed a 4 fight deal...The only thing that I wonder about is who does he fight if he loses to Tim, I guess he could be a stepping stone to some younger fighters....

i agree on Herring and Vera, they just havent had any high profile fights in UFC. but then again, they gave Jeff Monson a title match and he hadn't either.

Motion
01-15-2007, 06:57 PM
I don't know.. I think Couture has a very good chance against Arlovski (I'd probably pick Couture over Arlovski) and would do well against Cro Cop (though I'd probably go with Cro Cop if I had to bet). I just think Sylvia is the kind of opponent he can't beat easily.

I disagree on both points, I think Arlovski could take Couture although he needs another fight or two to shake the rust off. As for Cro Cop, are you serious man? No one in the UFC HW division can hang with him, except maybe Arlovski on his best day.

ckb2001
01-15-2007, 07:18 PM
i think Randy can out wrestle Sylvia, control him on the ground, and win a really boring 3 round decision.

if Randy is still under the (false) impression he can stand and trade punches with people, Sylvia will eventually knock him out. Randy is a wrestler, those skills and his cardio are what seperated him from the pack when he was champ. he became a decent striker on his feet, but nothing more.

If it becomes a wrestling match yeah, but so many have thought they could beat Sylvia on the ground and the difficult part turns out to be getting him on the ground in the first place. I mean Monson couldn't turn it into a wrestling match!

Couture lost fights against Barnett and Rodriguez primarily because they were simply much heavier than he was. If there's any weakness to Couture (except of the type Liddell showed us), it's that he has trouble with heavier fighters and Sylvia is definitely one of those.

ckb2001
01-15-2007, 07:23 PM
I disagree on both points, I think Arlovski could take Couture although he needs another fight or two to shake the rust off. As for Cro Cop, are you serious man? No one in the UFC HW division can hang with him, except maybe Arlovski on his best day.

Maybe you didn't read I wrote that I'd pick Mirko over Randy. It's just that I think Randy would do well against Mirko.

Now, you can disagree, but it's well to remember the history of how underrated Couture has been before so many fights he's had. Just in the UFC, his fights against Liddell (the first one) and Ortiz were ones where most thought Randy would lose. Liddell was this great up-and-comer, and no one thought a ~40 year old could hang with Ortiz. That match with Ortiz was a spanking (literally at the end if you remember).

And Randy's fought a who's who of guys in MMA and come out ahead except when the guys were heavier and when Liddell just simply out maneuvered him.

So, history should tell you never to underestimate this guy. I really do think he'd do well against Cro Cop, though again I'd still bet on Cro Cop.

Motion
01-15-2007, 10:37 PM
Maybe you didn't read I wrote that I'd pick Mirko over Randy. It's just that I think Randy would do well against Mirko.

Now, you can disagree, but it's well to remember the history of how underrated Couture has been before so many fights he's had. Just in the UFC, his fights against Liddell (the first one) and Ortiz were ones where most thought Randy would lose. Liddell was this great up-and-comer, and no one thought a ~40 year old could hang with Ortiz. That match with Ortiz was a spanking (literally at the end if you remember).

And Randy's fought a who's who of guys in MMA and come out ahead except when the guys were heavier and when Liddell just simply out maneuvered him.

So, history should tell you never to underestimate this guy. I really do think he'd do well against Cro Cop, though again I'd still bet on Cro Cop.

Oh I read what you wrote, and I stand by my comment. Even the thought that he could hang is crazy to me. Cro Cop is a machine, that leg kick is deadly. I see where your coming from as far as underestimating Couture, but this is a completely different ballgame IMO.

ckb2001
01-15-2007, 11:19 PM
Oh I read what you wrote, and I stand by my comment. Even the thought that he could hang is crazy to me. Cro Cop is a machine, that leg kick is deadly. I see where your coming from as far as underestimating Couture, but this is a completely different ballgame IMO.

Well, hopefully we'll see them fight. I'm not going to actually bet on something like that, so it doesn't really matter to me whether I'm right or wrong. The important thing is Cro Cop and Rampage are now in the UFC.

Motion
01-15-2007, 11:20 PM
Well, hopefully we'll see them fight. I'm not going to actually bet on something like that, so it doesn't really matter to me whether I'm right or wrong. The important thing is Cro Cop and Rampage are now in the UFC.

Agreed