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BigDogsHunt
01-10-2007, 06:49 PM
Tagliabue, Thomas among 17 Hall finalists

http://www.theredzone.org/news/showarticle.asp?ArticleID=4836



CANTON, Ohio (AP) Recently retired NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue and former Buffalo Bills star running back Thurman Thomas are among 17 finalists for the Pro Football Hall of Fame's class of 2007.

Also making the cut is Bruce Matthews, Michael Irvin, Fred Dean, Richard Dent, Russ Grimm, Bob Kuechenberg, Ray Guy; Art Monk, Andre Reed; Derrick Thomas, Andre Tippett, Roger Wehrli; and Gary Zimmerman.

Joining them are senior committee nominees Gene Hickerson and Charlie Sanders.

To be elected, a finalist must receive a minimum of 80 percent of the total votes by the panel of media members. The panel will vote on Feb. 3, the day before the Super Bowl in Miami.

Roman529
01-10-2007, 10:11 PM
Hope Kooch makes it....I can't understand why Jake Scott isn't in the Hall either?

:rolleyes:



:dolphins:

BigDogsHunt
01-11-2007, 10:13 AM
I think Art Monk is deserving and has been for sometime.

cnc66
01-11-2007, 10:18 AM
well... I think it is pretty obvious where "I" stand on this.... Go Kooch !

MikeO
01-11-2007, 11:12 AM
I think Art Monk is deserving and has been for sometime.

Never gonna happen!

BigDogsHunt
01-11-2007, 11:21 AM
Never gonna happen!


I am afraid you are right....why do you think that is though? He has the numbers and the image. He was class, produced, and left on top of the record books.

finswin56
01-11-2007, 11:37 AM
I am afraid you are right....why do you think that is though? He has the numbers and the image. He was class, produced, and left on top of the record books.
I think Monk is viewed by the NFL guys as their version of Rafael Palmeiro (minus the steroids). Productive and consistent for a long time, but never great for a long period.

BigDogsHunt
01-11-2007, 11:53 AM
I think Monk is viewed by the NFL guys as their version of Rafael Palmeiro (minus the steroids). Productive and consistent for a long time, but never great for a long period.


Yeah, however, peers of his, that he stacked up favorably against, and that are in the HoF, point to him as one who should be in too.

I dont know if its a Palmeiro but rather Rice as an MLB equivalent to being passed over for so long seems about right.

MikeO
01-11-2007, 12:36 PM
I am afraid you are right....why do you think that is though? He has the numbers and the image. He was class, produced, and left on top of the record books.

And I'm a Syracuse guy so I would love to see Monk (an alum) get in. Here is why he never will though...

1) For the msot part he was never the best WR on his team at any point in his career
2) not a game changing WR (ran 6 yard button hooks routs the majority of his career) THIS HURTS HIM THE MOST!!!!
3) Never a WR that opposing defenses "feared". And at that position you need to be that type of guy to get into the hall of fame.

At the end of the day he is a guy who just ran 6-8 yards, turned around caught the ball and didn't do anything after he had the ball. He did it great and for a long time and has some numbers, but if you break it down he wasn't a game changer at that position!

finswin56
01-11-2007, 02:02 PM
Yeah, however, peers of his, that he stacked up favorably against, and that are in the HoF, point to him as one who should be in too.

I dont know if its a Palmeiro but rather Rice as an MLB equivalent to being passed over for so long seems about right.
I disagree about Rice. There was a significant period of time that Jim Rice was one of the most feared hitters in baseball, and he was the man on most of those Red Sox teams. I don't think you can say the same about Monk.
Rice was top 5 in MVP voting six times, with one outright MVP. Led slugging twice, RBI twice, HR three times... He was premier. He was feared. Not the same with Monk.

BigDogsHunt
01-11-2007, 02:11 PM
I disagree about Rice. There was a significant period of time that Jim Rice was one of the most feared hitters in baseball, and he was the man on most of those Red Sox teams. I don't think you can say the same about Monk.
Rice was top 5 in MVP voting six times, with one outright MVP. Led slugging twice, RBI twice, HR three times... He was premier. He was feared. Not the same with Monk.


Ok, Palmerio type vs. Rice type.....


But still:

He was the first WR to eclipse 900 receptions, as well as retiring with the single season receptions record (106) and the most consecutive games with a catch (183).

His Career #'s are not puny:
Total catches: 940
Total yards: 12,721
Avg Yds/Catch: 13.5
Total TDs: 68

Seasons among the league's top 10
Receptions: 1984-1, 1985-2, 1988-9t, 1989-3t
Receiving yards: 1984-4, 1985-3, 1989-10
Receiving TDs: 1991-9t

Among the league's all-time top 50
Receptions: 6
Receiving yards: 11
Receiving TDs: 29t
Yards from scrimmage: 26
Consecutive games with at least one reception: 2(183)

BigDogsHunt
01-11-2007, 02:13 PM
Plus his peers and coaches have this type of praise for him:




Listen to what other people have said about inducting Art Monk into the Pro Football Hall of Fame:
Joe Gibbs, HOF inductee
"He was big, he was strong, and he was intelligent. He had everything."
"I can't see how a receiver could be more valuable to a team."
Charlie Casserly
"There was never a classier player in this franchise's history, or in league history, than Art Monk. You always knew the team would be getting Art Monk's best effort day in and day out."
Bill Parcells, 1995
"Monk is headed to Canton downhill on roller skates"
Joe Theismann
"Art was Jerry Rice before Jerry Rice was."
"Spend a day with Art Monk, and your life will improve by 10%"
Ronnie Lott, HOF inductee
"Art Monk was an example for Jerry Rice. That's what Jerry always told me."
"There's nothing negative to say. He has the numbers, the catches, the championships."
"You have a Hall of Fame for all it represents. I know he represents all that it's about. Integrity, love and passion for the game, community, what he gave back. Look how he conducted himself. Nobody I know deserves it more."
Mark Rypien
"Quiet about his work, very loud with his results"
Richie Petitbon
"He's more than just his receptions. Few players have been able to achieve what he's achieved."
Thomas Loverro, Washington Times
"He embodied the old school, and for that alone he should be enshrined so that when a father takes his son through the Hall of Fame, he can say, "Son, here is a man who once caught 106 passes in a season when no one was catching 100 passes. Here was a man who caught a pass in 183 straight games. And not once did he ever pull a cell phone out to make a call after any of those catches."
Bill Polian, President Indianapolis Colts
"I believe he's a Hall of Famer. I was a pro scout when he was playing, so it was my job to know who those guys were. I would put Art in that category, but apparently there are a lot of Hall of Fame voters who don't feel Art Monk was in that category. It's hard for me to believe they ever saw him play."

finswin56
01-11-2007, 02:28 PM
Ok, Palmerio type vs. Rice type.....


But still:

He was the first WR to eclipse 900 receptions, as well as retiring with the single season receptions record (106) and the most consecutive games with a catch (183).

His Career #'s are not puny:
Total catches: 940
Total yards: 12,721
Avg Yds/Catch: 13.5
Total TDs: 68

Seasons among the league's top 10
Receptions: 1984-1, 1985-2, 1988-9t, 1989-3t
Receiving yards: 1984-4, 1985-3, 1989-10
Receiving TDs: 1991-9t

Among the league's all-time top 50
Receptions: 6
Receiving yards: 11
Receiving TDs: 29t
Yards from scrimmage: 26
Consecutive games with at least one reception: 2(183)
There's not denying that Monk had an excellent career, and I wouldn't be disappointed to see him get in. It's just the perception that he was an accumulator.

Sethdaddy8
02-03-2007, 03:48 AM
Tagliabue, Thomas among 17 Hall finalists

http://www.theredzone.org/news/showarticle.asp?ArticleID=4836





what, no wait time for Tagliabue?

MikeO
02-03-2007, 03:53 AM
Thurman Thomas is a lock. Tagliabue is a notch below and almost a lock (although the disabled vet players thing wil haunt him from tomorrow till August and Canton) he helped screw those guys over and you will see protests and a lot of anti-Tags press for 8 months if he gets voted in now with that un-resolved.

I'm not a Monk guy (and he went to Syracuse). He shouldn't get in. I feel though this might be his year with such a weak class. It's wrong if he gets in, but I think he might sneak in this year.

Irvin should, but nobody likes him so they might string him along a few more years. Ray Guy I would vote yes. Derrick Thomas is a yes.

Reed is a no. Keuch is a no. Grimm is a no. Dent is a no (but Dent might get in I have a feeling). Zimmerman is a no.

Sethdaddy8
02-03-2007, 03:55 AM
Thurman Thomas is a lock. Tagliabue is a notch below and almost a lock (although the disabled vet players thing wil haunt him from tomorrow till August and Canton) he helped screw those guys over and you will see protests and a lot of anti-Tags press for 8 months if he gets voted in now with that un-resolved.

I'm not a Monk guy (and he went to Syracuse). He shouldn't get in. I feel though this might be his year with such a weak class. It's wrong if he gets in, but I think he might sneak in this year.

Irvin should, but nobody likes him so they might string him along a few more years. Ray Guy I would vote yes. Derrick Thomas is a yes.

Reed is a no. Keuch is a no. Grimm is a no. Dent is a no (but Dent might get in I have a feeling). Zimmerman is a no.

Why doesn't Tagliabue have to wait the standard time like evrybody else?

MikeO
02-03-2007, 03:57 AM
Why doesn't Tagliabue have to wait the standard time like evrybody else?
because he isn't a player. different rules

phunwin
02-05-2007, 10:29 AM
Gene Hickerson, Michael Irvin, Bruce Matthews, Charlie Sanders, Thurman Thomas and Roger Wehrli.

No Kooch, no Monk, no Derrick Thomas, no love.


That said, there seems to be a very real, and very loud sentiment of "why does Irvin get in ahead of Monk with lesser career numbers?!?" That might be enough to get Monk in next time. Look at what's happened with Goose Gossage in baseball's HOF. After Bruce Sutter was elected, people started saying "well, if Sutter got in, we have to vote Gossage in", and now, Gossage is all but a lock for next year.

And by the way, the whole "he was feared" argument is baloney. Stories are fun, but they don't necessarily make a Hall of Famer.

GreenMonster
02-05-2007, 11:08 AM
Why does Irvin get in with less numbers.. Because his were much better, 190 less catches than Monk but only 800 yards and 3 touchdowns less than Monk.. Irvin had 1000 yard seasons 7 out of his 12 years, Monk 5 out of 16.. Flat-out Micheal Irvin was a better reciever..

Section126
02-05-2007, 05:11 PM
How bout Mark Clayton?

As soon as Lynn Swann got in, I think that opened the doors for a whole host of WR's...

GoBills24
02-05-2007, 07:27 PM
How bout Mark Clayton?

As soon as Lynn Swann got in, I think that opened the doors for a whole host of WR's...

Including Andre Reed, who should've went in this year.

Section126
02-05-2007, 07:32 PM
Including Andre Reed, who should've went in this year.

Hey..I am with you...Reed and Clayton should get in.

GoBills24
02-05-2007, 07:55 PM
Hey..I am with you...Reed and Clayton should get in.

Yep..

I often ask people this question who say he shouldn't get in..

Name a WR currently in the HOF who has more catches than Reed..

:D

In_Flames
02-05-2007, 08:09 PM
Hey..I am with you...Reed and Clayton should get in.

:yes:

GreenMonster
02-07-2007, 03:37 PM
Hey..I am with you...Reed and Clayton should get in.

In my HOF of Fame neither would make it but I suspect Reed might sneak in, atleast he was the best WR on his team for a longtime.

Art Monk HOF debate is so garbage.. MikeO explained it well in his post. Monk was nothing but an overgloried 2nd reciever. Gary Clark was the best receiver the Redskins had from 85' to 92'.. Not only did most of the coverage get shaded his way because he ran deeper routes, he still managed to have better numbers than Monk. In 57 more games than Clark, Monk generated 2000 more yards and 3 touchdowns. Just because he left with the most catches doesn't mean he is HOF worthy.