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Jeep
06-10-2003, 10:01 PM
I have been a member of this board for the last 8 or 9 months and for the most part, I enjoy this forum and enjoy conversing with many of you.. I am a HUGE Dolphin fan, have been for the best part of my life and since I live on the west coast of the US, I looked forward to seeing, reading and hearing anything and everything that pertains to my favorite team..


But I have to tell you that after seeing all the attacks, put downs and harassment by many of you JUST because you may not agree with some ones opinion or because they misspelled a word.. or maybe they are trying to make a point and their facts are slightly off .. well.. it has me ashamed to call myself a Dolfan and its getting to the point where I am ask myself if I am really enjoying logging onto this board... I do know that my level of enthusiasm for this team has declined and I believe its from all the arrogant.. pompous... immature people here..

First, I don't particularly agree with the coaching, the front office and some of the personnel.. My only outlet to discuss these issues are here at FinHeaven... and it seem that when someone makes any kind of negative statement about the Phins or coaching or the front office.. we get publicly harassed or ridiculed!!!

We are pretty much told to sit back, shut up and quit whining.. or we are told to get a life and then get over it.. I know I have gotten a real crappy attitude towards certain people and I have lashed out at certain times myself..

The latest occurrence that prompted me to write this was from a recent thread I read.. one of our fellow Dolphin fan took the time to write his opinion (granted it was negative) about the coaching staff and one jerk (in particular) jumped all over his case unprovoked.. In response and I am sure he felt personally insulted.. he lashed back. It wasn't until then that ADMIN stepped in and attempted to solve this problem by quoting the original posters response along with his comment about "no personal attacks"...and he did not quote mention or comment any of the other posts (plural).. even tho they drew first blood.. In my opinion that showed ADMIN was taking sides and if it wasn't, then it had to be a case of overlooking who and what actually started this argument..


Look you all.. This is a GREAT forum.. probably the best Dolphin website on the whole Internet.. Its a place where I not only donated my money to keep it running, but more importantly a place where I can call home.. We have some very informative members than go to practices and posts their opinions for us people that live too far away or have to work.. We have a few members that has the inside scoop of the latest Dolphin news.. and we have friends on here..

Personally speaking.. I would hate to see this place go downhill to the point where it is no longer enjoyable and people just quit logging on...

Remember 3 things people...

1) We all put our pants on one leg at a time
2) Opinions is something that everyone has and there is time that you can not change their opinions to match yours no matter how many words you speak (or type).
3) Remember what your momma told you... If you aint got anything nice to say.. Then its probably best to keep your trap shut...

Obviously, this board has quite a few immature members and they need to realize that just because someone else doesn't agree with you or they don't agree everything that happens with the team... they are still brothers.. they are still a Dolfans and they still love the team with all their hearts..

Migs182005
06-10-2003, 10:18 PM
You know, what, I think this post deserves to go in Flipper's Finest.

I agree with everything you have said, excluding the whole situation you had with a certain member because I have not taken a look at the conversation and I can't say anything about that at this moment, because I honestly don't know the situation.

But, everything else is right on target.

When I first came on to this site, I was eager to get my opinions across, and I was able to. While not everyone agreed with me on some things, I rarely got bashed for my opinion. While I'm not saying it's happened to me recently, I have seen the bashing of people's opinion a lot recently.

There's no room for it on finheaven.com

This IS the best Dolphins board on the web, and I'm proud to say I'm a member of finheaven, but I haven't been too pleased with some of the personal attacks I've seen. We all have opinions, and just bcause you don't agree with someone, doesn't mean you need to bash the person.

We need to remember, why we're here.

1. To express our opinions because we can't do them publicly anywhere else. (In most cases)
2. To find out the latest Dolphins news.
3. To socialize with other Dol-fans, and yes, even Bills fans sometimes :tongue:

I ask everyone here to please refrain from making personal attacks on someone, for whatever the reason.

The staff has been taking care of the people that are doing this, but we don't want to ban everyone here if you see what I'm trying to say.

No one is taking sides, we are just trying to resolve problems do get the focus back on the reason we are all here. The Dolphins.

Let's keep it that way guys. ;)

Tatonka
06-10-2003, 10:31 PM
"Help!! Help!! I'm being repressed!!"

i have had a lot of personal attacks on me too, and i have never attacked anyone.. people take differing opinions very personal sometimes.. especially if it is from a rival fan..

i guess you just get used to it..

i know personally.. i look for and find posters that seem more tolerant.. are open to agreeing to disagree in a less insultive manner.. or even, on rare ocassion, can actually take a good point to heart, even if it is against what they thought..

and the ones that are typically rude, ignorant, or dont ever have any substance to their posts other than to say.. your wrong, you suck, bills suck, phins rule.. well.. i pretty much just skim and move on.

T-ROCK
06-10-2003, 10:55 PM
Right on, Jeep...

I read a lot of negative stuff, and I get mad and type a scathing reply... then before I hit submit, I think about it and hit the back button...

It's not worth arguing with fellow fans... Sometimes when you feel very strongly about something, it's hard to NOT argue... But you're right, it happens too much and it's not only this forum... It's much worse on others...

FinHeavenAJ
06-10-2003, 11:02 PM
First off, Jeep you have a PM.

Secondly, I have stated time and time again that pesonal attacks have no place on this forum. Granted, this is a very hard thing to accomplish. There are over 1,700 members on this board, and we are growing rapidly. It's almost hard to keep track of all the newbies. Anyways, with this large group, it should be known that SOMEONE will have a different opinion.

The staff of FinHeaven & Co tries to stop personal attacks in their tracks, and sometimes that's accomplished. Other times, we catch an arguement that is already developed, so we warn both parties involved. As stated before, it's quite simple... if someone throws a personal attack to you, PM a staff member. If you reply with another personal attack, you will be warned as well.

So listen, everyone just respect everybody else's opinions... it's not too difficult. Don't throw any personal attacks, and everyone will be happy...

Sincerely,
Andrew Tatum

Bumrush
06-10-2003, 11:05 PM
Yeah!! Screw you Jeep!!! :)

On a serious note, this forum rocks and I hope it continues to grow.

PhinstiGator
06-10-2003, 11:14 PM
Jeep, your post may have been more effective if you did not call other posters jerks, arrogant, pompous, and immature. Do you think that is an effective way to call people to treat each other with respect?

In public forums opinions get challenged, hammered out, turned upside down emptied out, and there is usually some common ground that we rest on at the end.

If I were to be always negative for the sake of being negative or if I thought more highly of my opinions than I do the Miami Dolphins then I would be instigating confrontations with other fans. I would rather instigate intelligent thought about the Miami Dolphins.

Personally, I think that it is best to simply ignore a personal attack. It is the quickest way to end it. When you don't respond it makes the other person look small and you become the bigger man (or woman) who refuses to respond in kind.

I have never completely agreed with anyone 100% of the time on a message board. But, when someone comes on here claiming to be a Dolphins fan and only presents a negative view it will produce a negative response. Now if you decide to only criticize a Dolphin player or coach you better make sure you have your facts right and that you are not just spewing emotion. Like it or not that player or coach is working his butt off to make this a better team and they deserve some form of respect from those who call themselves Dolphin fans.

Bobby Humphrey
06-10-2003, 11:24 PM
i have been on this board for just over a year now and log on daily. since i spend a lot of time in china, this form is one of my only dolphin fixes. the personal attacks on others just make me keep my opinions (i hope i didn't spell that wrong) to myself. i for one don't like attacking others, and i hate to be attacked so i just keep many thoughts to myself. and my finheaven life works out fine that way. but jeep, it use to bother the heck out of me too, now i am just use to it.

as far as the staff goes. i think they are doing a good job. i can't think of anything more they can do. there are far way to many jerks out there to stop it. but things blow over. i remember for about a month or so there a lot of people were jumping all over dolphins2002, (now known as prime time) but he stuck with the board and i haven't seen any attacks on him for months now. i give dolphins2002 credit for sticking around, i wouldn't of.

anyways, your a good man jeep. i can tell that by your post. just stick to the form, like u said its the best the net has to offer.

Va.fin fan
06-10-2003, 11:29 PM
bro. i would never take things so personal off this board or any where else for that matter. when you let things people post effect you that much ,you need to take a deep breath .and say you know what this stuff is not paying rent to stay in my head and kick it out. i think mods do the best that they can ,i dont believe there getting paid. so lets cut em some slack. ignor the foolish people and move on. peace bro.

Migs182005
06-10-2003, 11:33 PM
none of the mods make money for doing it. We do it because we want to.

MDFINFAN
06-10-2003, 11:39 PM
This is a very interesting post, this is a challenging board, I find that if you just say something without facts, and people don't agree with you, they will jump on you..but you also have to look at the passion that people have for their opinion and facts..That's why I like this board..the vast number of people have pretty good arguments to support their view..Those who just say your point of view sucks..I just ignore because they're not really adding meaningful conversation to the board, but I realize they are probably emotional at that point and just lashing out..especially if you got a good point on them..for the most part iIenjoy the board and the debates..I usually think we hash something out so well, that by the end of it, everyone's pretty well inform on the subject matter..the bills fan add favor to the board and I enjoy their insight..I especially like Clump, Justa, Tatonka...they really know football and just don't post to be negative....Totonka can get to you, because he's know what makes a lot of you tick, he baits you and you go for it..He's only expressing himself to say he doesn't alway agree, but sometimes he does..I read him and Clump and Justa pretty carefully and see what they see from a outside point of veiw..plus they're tracking their own team and measuring that team to ours..CK, Muck, DCH, and others are always enjoyable because they pick factual posts to respond to and you can really talk out or debate if you wish a point with them and know you will get good feedback. and they are never insulting in doing so, but you can tell they're just as passionate about their positions as you are..Some poster on this board can take some lessons from them in how to respond, even when insulted, and I've seen CK insulted plenty of times and marvel at his coolness when responding, ignoring the insult and espewing more facts to back up what he says..Even thought I don't always agree with him, I can respect his position. In the end, we're all fans, and everyone won't respond the way you want them to..Don't take it too personal, most of us don't know each other personally, nor can we affect each other lives financially or otherwise, so it doesn't mean a lot when anyone says something too smart..As long as you guys don't take out a contract on me or my family, I can live with the smart talk.:D

Tatonka
06-11-2003, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by FinHeavenAJ
First off, Jeep you have a PM.

Secondly, I have stated time and time again that pesonal attacks have no place on this forum. Granted, this is a very hard thing to accomplish. There are over 1,700 members on this board, and we are growing rapidly. It's almost hard to keep track of all the newbies. Anyways, with this large group, it should be known that SOMEONE will have a different opinion.

The staff of FinHeaven & Co tries to stop personal attacks in their tracks, and sometimes that's accomplished. Other times, we catch an arguement that is already developed, so we warn both parties involved. As stated before, it's quite simple... if someone throws a personal attack to you, PM a staff member. If you reply with another personal attack, you will be warned as well.

So listen, everyone just respect everybody else's opinions... it's not too difficult. Don't throw any personal attacks, and everyone will be happy...

Sincerely,
Andrew Tatum

you guys are doing a great job. this board is actually more strict than most others.. but i am a nice guy.. so it doesnt effect me. :D

MDFINFAN
06-11-2003, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by Tatonka


you guys are doing a great job. this board is actually more strict than most others.. but i am a nice guy.. so it doesnt effect me. :D

You know Tatonka, I agree, you are a nice guy:D Most people would have given up and run with all the heat you took, I have to say I respect you a lot for that..

PS..Write that in your diary, you won't see it again..:lol:

Cranx
06-11-2003, 12:36 AM
The "jerk" in question here is me as I am the one who said dropped a bomb on a particular post which was basically just another rehash of someone complaining about Wanny and his coaching style. My post wasn't even a disagreement about the issue as, to an extent, I agreed with the poster, but I just feel like the whole issue has been beaten to death so many times that it wasn't contributing a single positive thing to this board. Perhaps I came across a bit strong but it was meant in a more humorous manner than anything else.

As far as the rant that got us here (on this thread) in the first place, I can only address the poster as a total and complete hypocrite who is not willing to practice what he preaches. If one is going to take the time to write a dissertation as to why individuals should not be personally attacked on this MB, then that same individual should not- especially within the post condemning the "personal attacks"- personally attack someone else wouldn't you all agree?

Based upon his description of the post and the thread Jeep made it blatantly obvious to whom he was referring and to the exact thread; he then proceeded to blatantly call me a "jerk." Now, if calling someone a jerk (not to mention pompous) isn't a personal attack then I truly have no clue as to what is.

Sorry Jeep, you have proven yourself a total hypocrite who isn't really interested in doing the "right thing" but, rather, is only interested in his own personal agenda.



On a side note, why has everyone become so sensitive to things that people post? Is it that you can't take any ribbing about your opinions whatsoever? Is it that you consider your opinions so superior to everyone else's that you can't stand to have someone take a shot in jest? Or is it that every one of you (to whom this applies of course) have become so PC that the mere thought of an jab in your general direction is considered a blatant personal affront to be oppressed at all costs? I'm just curious; what's the problem?


One more note: if this thread starting post winds up in the "best of.." pile, then we're seriously going to have to consider that which is "best" to be severely diminished.

Tatonka
06-11-2003, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Expo88
1. Now, if calling someone a jerk (not to mention pompous) isn't a personal attack then I truly have no clue as to what is.

2. why has everyone become so sensitive to things that people post?
A) Is it that you can't take any ribbing about your opinions whatsoever?
B)Is it that you consider your opinions so superior to everyone else's that you can't stand to have someone take a shot in jest? C) Or is it that every one of you (to whom this applies of course) have become so PC that the mere thought of an jab in your general direction is considered a blatant personal affront to be oppressed at all costs?



1. i noticed that.. wasnt very nice..

2. for me personally.. all of the above.. but especially option B :D

Tatonka
06-11-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by MDFINFAN


You know Tatonka, I agree, you are a nice guy:D Most people would have given up and run with all the heat you took, I have to say I respect you a lot for that..

PS..Write that in your diary, you won't see it again..:lol:

/grabs note pad and pen to scribble a note to self...

"remember to send MDFINAN his christmas card.....



.... right after the fish finish their season before christmas."

:D :rofl:

Cranx
06-11-2003, 12:46 AM
Originally posted by Tatonka


1. i noticed that.. wasnt very nice..

2. for me personally.. all of the above.. but especially option B :D

I know, but your a Jills fan so you can be forgiven for your ignorance. :lol:

Oh well, "It can't rain all the time."

MDFINFAN
06-11-2003, 12:48 AM
But Expo, why take jabs, why not address the subject matter with something worth while..you have to remember the person who started the post was probably trying to say something that he thought would be good info to the board or something for good debate..instead of getting substitant opinion they get jeers and jabs..now on the post you just posted, if everyone attacked you for it, wouldn't you feel slighted, when you were only trying to express your opinion of Jeeps motives. I think someone cover very well the way Jeep approached this thread, you are inciting the flame...Move pass that and lets get back to info, opinions, and facts about the dolphins..If I recall, there is a smack forum for other stuffs..I think that's pretty good to let off some steam...Take care my finfan.

infiltrateib
06-11-2003, 12:55 AM
Sometimes when I get down I just think about a really drunk monkey. I mean he's just wasted, beer in one hand, swinging his arms about in a haphazard fashion, and hitting on really hot girls. Oh man, that monkey is funny.

Cranx
06-11-2003, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
But Expo, why take jabs, why not address the subject matter with something worth while..you have to remember the person who started the post was probably trying to say something that he thought would be good info to the board or something for good debate..instead of getting substitant opinion they get jeers and jabs..now on the post you just posted, if everyone attacked you for it, wouldn't you feel slighted, when you were only trying to express your opinion of Jeeps motives. I think someone cover very well the way Jeep approached this thread, you are inciting the flame...Move pass that and lets get back to info, opinions, and facts about the dolphins..If I recall, there is a smack forum for other stuffs..I think that's pretty good to let off some steam...Take care my finfan.

99% of the time I simply address the topic, express my opinion, and leave it at that. Sometimes I'll throw an additional pop in there but, if you take the time to read my post, it wasn't all that bad and I really wasn't attacking the guy (12thman) personally, I was attacking the nature of the post; one that had been discussed over and over again. 12thman took it personally and took a couple of jabs and I responded in a very light hearted manner (I've since deleted that post in the interest of harmony.)

If people wanted to take issue to my response then that's their business, I would consider the source and respond as I saw fit, but I wouldn't/don't let this get to me. We're all fans and we all have our opinions and occasionally [often] those opinions clash. It's the nature of the beast bro.

You're right however, I did fan the flames a bit when I addressed Jeep's post and that's due to the fact that he was/is denouncing personal attacks while simultaneously (and unprovoked I might add) personally attacking me. You can't have it both ways.

Regardless, this does not belong in the smack forum though, this whole thread belongs in the deleted files bin.

dolfan87
06-11-2003, 12:59 AM
Hey Jeep, in case you haven't heard, I am no longer an Admin here. I just thought that the whole thread was getting out of hand, and I said something.

Had nothing to do with the Administration.

87

Tatonka
06-11-2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by infiltrateib
Sometimes when I get down I just think about a really drunk monkey. I mean he's just wasted, beer in one hand, swinging his arms about in a haphazard fashion, and hitting on really hot girls. Oh man, that monkey is funny.

AAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

that is seriously the funniest f-ing thing i have read in weeks.. that is absolutely hilarious man.. roflmao..

christ.. i am gonna wake my wife.. i am going to bed..

that is just classic..

just so you know.. i am going to be stealing that quote right there.. no question.

WharfRat
06-11-2003, 01:48 AM
Ok everyone needs to give this a rest.

There are times when an issue will just die on its own... this apparently isn't one of those times...

The Staff's stance on personal attacks is this:

Don't do it.

If it's good natured ribbing, fine. If it's a blatent insult... not fine. It's hard sometimes to tell the difference, which is why I like smilies so much :D, but the Staff tries very hard to keep this on a mature level... something that, as AJ said, is nearly impossible to do with over 1750 members, and anywhere from 300 to 600 new posts per day....
It's also hard to tell sometimes.. who exactly threw the first punch... I think I've said a thousand times... that I am not concerned with who pushed who first... unless a member is consistantly a problem... but rather with stopping the fight altoghether.
Dolphan87 is retired as an Admin... however, he still has a huge interest in the "house that AJ and Gram built".... so I'm not surprised that he intervened. He used the quote from the first post he saw that made a personal attack...without trying to pour over everyone's words... I may have done the same thing. His point was not to single anyone out, but to end the conflict.
Let's all just get back to football... and stop beating each other up...
Freely discuss, debate, argue your opinions... but let's not resort to name-calling in the process...

Jon

VanDolPhan
06-11-2003, 04:58 AM
Originally posted by WharfRat
The Staff's stance on personal attacks is this:

Don't do it.


Well the problem is that the staff doesn't back up their stances. If the mods see an insult they need to edit it right away and link to the rule about insulting others. You should keep files on offenders that way you can track who are constant repeat offenders.

All to often I see a mod come in and wag his finger like mom going "now boys play nice" and not deal with the actual infractions. All the moderators need to have brass balls and cut it off before it gets anywhere. There really needs to be a 0 tolerance policy and edits get done each time. As the head of support for a board of 16000 registered posters where many are paying us $9.95 a month we've learned the best way to deal with people is to cut em off before they can get anywhere and if they give you grief then they aren't worth having.

I know it sounds cruel but you'll find out who the real fans and good natured posters are and who are the headaches.

Clumpy
06-11-2003, 06:28 AM
Hi, I'm Clump! Hi Clump!! and I'm a Bills fan who's a Premium Member on a Fins website. What's wrong with me? :(

NADA, NOTHING,ZILCH!!

I enjoy this site because many people have accepted the fact that a Bills fan can contribute in a positive way on a rival site. I've donated to help keep the site going because I remember when I was AJ's age (oh my that's 20 yrs ago) and how difficult that time was for me. I also wanted an opportunity to yell: SWEEP!! without getting banned :lol:

But seriously, we are all human beings (some of ya I'm still wonderin' about ;) ) and most of us are Americans (or our Allies from the UK) who just happen to have different loyalties to sport franchises. Many of us would have no problems being friends and able to socialize in the "real world" I met Miadphan13 (my favorite travel agent) and JayDog57 last year when I came down to see the Bills win 23-10 on such a hot frickin day ;) and was very impressed by Michelle's professionalism but maybe that's just because we are both Italian ;)
I'm planning to come down for the Bills game in Sept and would love an opportunity to join your tailgate party :)

Live long and prosper :D

lotion
06-11-2003, 07:02 AM
In the rockies I think they call this type of neurosis cabin fever. It appears a strain of it is affecting dolphin fans who just can't wait for the damn season to start.
Sit back. Chill out. Maybe go to the driving range... Have a brew. We've got 6 weeks to go, I'm sure the focus will change then from analyzing peoples posts and assuming their intent and go more to the matter at hand, a goddamn superbowl run!!!:pirate:

lotion
06-11-2003, 07:04 AM
I think this type of thing goes on behind the scenes at beauty pagents.
:lol:

plc001
06-11-2003, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Jeep
I do know that my level of enthusiasm for this team has declined and I believe its from all the arrogant.. pompous... immature people here...

Come on now... why do opinions from a message board filled with complete strangers carry so much weight in your mind. Water off a duck's back, that's all there is to it. You will never see most these guys ever in your entire life, and if you did, you probably wouldn't know it. So who cares what they suggest.

Besides, if you say something unpopular, you should expect to get slammed. Take a step outside your house and say something unpopular and see how many people lay into you. Why would basic rules of society change on a message board? You knew what was going to happen before you made the post. If you didn't... well... lets just say you should have.

Chisel Monkey
06-11-2003, 08:48 AM
I'm Rubber and your Glue.......etc.-So there!:bravo:

sugarcane
06-11-2003, 08:56 AM
Sticks and stones.....

zach13
06-11-2003, 08:57 AM
Is it just me, or does this have nothing to do with the Dolphins?

fin-atic
06-11-2003, 09:14 AM
I think we all need a group hug!:)

Seriously though, Jeep is right. I know how he feels and have been in his shoes many times. If you come on here and disgaree with anything that the team does or point out a weakness, you are attacked like a pork chop in a pack of pit bulls.

I say let everyone have their say. If you disagree then do it about the issue and not make it personal. If it is a topic or member you don't like, then just ignore them.

I will be glad when the season starts.

MissMeth
06-11-2003, 09:22 AM
Cant we all just get along.....

:missmeth:

Chubby
06-11-2003, 09:30 AM
No more :saberfigh everyone be :D . Seriuosly I completely understand what jeep is saying its gotten a little out of hand lately. I am not able to get on as much as i like lately but when I do I love reading everyones opinions whether its good or bad. Lets just keep this fun.

DrAstroZoom
06-11-2003, 09:39 AM
Hey everybody, what's going on?
:splat:
:foundout:

Clumpy
06-11-2003, 09:41 AM
Don't worry :( , be happy :)

allred65
06-11-2003, 10:02 AM
First off ..."don't be haten". Secondly, for those of us who get upset when people constantly complain about our beloved team's coaching staff, upper management, and starting QB, take heart. After we get to the Superbowl this season, all those folks will be jumping off the negative band wagon faster than you can say Jay Fiedler...MVP. So don't get so personal in your responses. For those who are always complaining about Wanny, management, and Fiedler, two things. Don Shula isn't coming to bring back those glory years of the '70's and there will never be another Dan Marino so stop looking for him. Nothing personal in that response just stating facts.
Peace

Emskirch
06-11-2003, 10:04 AM
Just means its getting closer to football season :calm:

M-REAL
06-11-2003, 10:27 AM
I might be a newbie to this website, but I enjoy all the good feedback and the debates too. I'm a die-hard Dolphins fan that's lived in Pines for 21 years, and i needed a football fix during the summer. Dolphan- talk needs to resume without the immature 10 year olds posting crap!

Coral Reefer
06-11-2003, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Jeep
I have been a member of this board for the last 8 or 9 months and for the most part, I enjoy this forum and enjoy conversing with many of you.. I am a HUGE Dolphin fan, have been for the best part of my life and since I live on the west coast of the US, I looked forward to seeing, reading and hearing anything and everything that pertains to my favorite team..


But I have to tell you that after seeing all the attacks, put downs and harassment by many of you JUST because you may not agree with some ones opinion or because they misspelled a word.. or maybe they are trying to make a point and their facts are slightly off .. well.. it has me ashamed to call myself a Dolfan and its getting to the point where I am ask myself if I am really enjoying logging onto this board... I do know that my level of enthusiasm for this team has declined and I believe its from all the arrogant.. pompous... immature people here..

First, I don't particularly agree with the coaching, the front office and some of the personnel.. My only outlet to discuss these issues are here at FinHeaven... and it seem that when someone makes any kind of negative statement about the Phins or coaching or the front office.. we get publicly harassed or ridiculed!!!

We are pretty much told to sit back, shut up and quit whining.. or we are told to get a life and then get over it.. I know I have gotten a real crappy attitude towards certain people and I have lashed out at certain times myself..

The latest occurrence that prompted me to write this was from a recent thread I read.. one of our fellow Dolphin fan took the time to write his opinion (granted it was negative) about the coaching staff and one jerk (in particular) jumped all over his case unprovoked.. In response and I am sure he felt personally insulted.. he lashed back. It wasn't until then that ADMIN stepped in and attempted to solve this problem by quoting the original posters response along with his comment about "no personal attacks"...and he did not quote mention or comment any of the other posts (plural).. even tho they drew first blood.. In my opinion that showed ADMIN was taking sides and if it wasn't, then it had to be a case of overlooking who and what actually started this argument..


Look you all.. This is a GREAT forum.. probably the best Dolphin website on the whole Internet.. Its a place where I not only donated my money to keep it running, but more importantly a place where I can call home.. We have some very informative members than go to practices and posts their opinions for us people that live too far away or have to work.. We have a few members that has the inside scoop of the latest Dolphin news.. and we have friends on here..

Personally speaking.. I would hate to see this place go downhill to the point where it is no longer enjoyable and people just quit logging on...

Remember 3 things people...

1) We all put our pants on one leg at a time
2) Opinions is something that everyone has and there is time that you can not change their opinions to match yours no matter how many words you speak (or type).
3) Remember what your momma told you... If you aint got anything nice to say.. Then its probably best to keep your trap shut...

Obviously, this board has quite a few immature members and they need to realize that just because someone else doesn't agree with you or they don't agree everything that happens with the team... they are still brothers.. they are still a Dolfans and they still love the team with all their hearts..

Your right on with your assessment Jeep.
Not all the Mods pick sides and most do a great job BUT there are a "few" that are obvious in their attempts only to censor arguments from those with alternate opinions and actually make situations worse by adding insults/inflamatory remarks. If you look back in some threads the instances will be obvious to you.
Some can't handle a power position even if it is one as little as moderator on a forum and those people should'nt have that power if they can't handle it.

I too enjoy the forum much less now but it is the only place to go to discuss Fin football and overall is still enjoyable. I never thought I could get annoyed by someone's post on a website but somehow, when someone calls you out rather than just posting their alt. opinion it really drags you down into it. God knows I've been involved in quite a few tussles on here. I have to say that I appreciate the mods that step in and point out that both parties need to cool off. We all need to learn that a differing opinion is not personal and keep it that way. I doubt this site will degrade into a useless arena because there are a lot of insightful posters which always bring good points and information.

I for one apologize to any I've got heated with (especially Migs and Oliver who I've had some real barn burners with!) and hope the problems will tone down now that the season is quickly approaching.

Migs182005
06-11-2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by Trekbiz

I for one apologize to any I've got heated with (especially Migs and Oliver who I've had some real barn burners with!) and hope the problems will tone down now that the season is quickly approaching.

Same here Trekbiz. I don't hold grudges and I don't like arguing with people. I'm just here to talk Dolphins football, not to start a Jerry Springer show.

:migs:

Cranx
06-11-2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by plc001


Come on now... why do opinions from a message board filled with complete strangers carry so much weight in your mind. Water off a duck's back, that's all there is to it. You will never see most these guys ever in your entire life, and if you did, you probably wouldn't know it. So who cares what they suggest.

Besides, if you say something unpopular, you should expect to get slammed. Take a step outside your house and say something unpopular and see how many people lay into you. Why would basic rules of society change on a message board? You knew what was going to happen before you made the post. If you didn't... well... lets just say you should have.

EXACTLY!! Nice post plc! :up:

inFINSible
06-11-2003, 12:57 PM
trek, if you're going to make accusations like that you better back it up......Don't try to pass off a "check for yourself' as proof. If you have proof that some mod tried to censor someone views then by all means, lets' see it.

Besides, if you say something unpopular, you should expect to get slammed. Take a step outside your house and say something unpopular and see how many people lay into you. Why would basic rules of society change on a message board? plc001----

I think this says it all....and a few other posts said it also. if somebody wants to start a negative thread about the coaching staff or a member of the team then there are going to be other members that are going to feel strongly the other way....You certainly can't expect to have your say and then no one else can have theirs can you? If it seems like you are getting ganged up on it's because there are ALOT of people who disagree with your position.....It shouldn't come as a surprise......If a buffalo fan or a jet fan would come on here and start a thread about how much Fiedler sucks or....wannstedt should be fired.....or Spielman is an idiot for not spending everydime we had by the second day of FAgency.....they would be bomarded with replys to the contrary.....if a Dolphin fan comes on here with the same attitude then they should EXPECT!!! the reaction they get.

The problem arises when the responses get personal and that's when we try and step in....if people could disagree w/out being offending to each other we wouldn't have this problem. That's the whole point....I know that I get sucked into a good debate every now and then but, for the most part I usually just leave my opinion and leave it at that unless somebody questions me directly. I'm not interested in changing anybodies mind or my image with other posters....I'm here to share my opinions and read others'. But, I won't hestitate to question and debate ANYONE who I disagree with....that's life, everybodys gotta deal with it everyday.....you can't just sail through with a contrary opinion and expect everyone to move out of your way. It will never work like that.

lotion
06-11-2003, 01:00 PM
This is what I think about the whole thing...

Coral Reefer
06-11-2003, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by inFINSible

[QUOTE]trek, if you're going to make accusations like that you better back it up......Don't try to pass off a "check for yourself' as proof. If you have proof that some mod tried to censor someone views then by all means, lets' see it.

For the sake of this debate let's just drop the censoring views part since that cannot be proven and is only my opinion based on what I have seen. Lets get to the more obvious problem. When two sides get in an out of control debate in this forum "certain" mod or mods only call out one of the parties in the altercation on a regular basis which is obviously going to worsen the problem on one end. Even worse, on many occasions they also make remarks to posters that are just as inflamatory as the ones they are supposed to be moderating. Kind of a self defeating process would'nt you think.....


I think this says it all....and a few other posts said it also. if somebody wants to start a negative thread about the coaching staff or a member of the team then there are going to be other members that are going to feel strongly the other way....You certainly can't expect to have your say and then no one else can have theirs can you?

Correct me if I'm wrong but no one, especially me has said anything about expecting everyone to have the same point of view. That's the point of a message board to compare information and hear different points of view. So obviously that is not the point. The point is that you should be able to expect anyone who disagrees with you to not lash out at you personally.
You should also expect that the people honored enough to be picked to moderate such a forum fairly will actually moderate that forum fairly, equally and without picking sides in an altercation.
As Jeep and a few others have pointed out that is not what is currently happening on these boards. Hopefully with the airring of the opinions on this thread, that won't be a problem anymore.



But, I won't hestitate to question and debate ANYONE who I disagree with....that's life, everybodys gotta deal with it everyday.....you can't just sail through with a contrary opinion and expect everyone to move out of your way. It will never work like that.

Again, that was never an issue anyone has brought up.

WharfRat
06-11-2003, 02:02 PM
Here's the deal folks....

I am going to make this kind of short, as I don't have much time at this moment to create the post I'd like to here.
I do want you all to know, that I think valid points have been made by just about everyone in this thread...

The monkey thing sort of confuses me :hmmm: ... but, it sounds well thought out... :sceptic:


Anyway, I'd like to address quite a few of the comments, concerns, and complaints that have been brought up, but like I said, time will not allow that right now. If everyone would allow me a few hours to take care of real life ... I will try to be open, honest and frank with you all, and hopefully leave everyone with a degree of "peace of mind" about these issues.

I hope you will all bear with me, and relax for a little while....
Not saying you shouldn't continue to post here (if I wanted that, I'd close the thread ;) ), let's just stay calm with each other, and respect everyone's views on this situation. After all, that's what this is all about, yes?

DPlus47
06-11-2003, 02:06 PM
for me, the toughest things about a message board is getting my tone across and figuring out the tone of the other poster. a lot of these arguments wouldn't be the same in person--you do a lot less reading into things when you're talking about something face to face. and familiarity helps: we're all dolphin fans here, and chances are if any of us met in a bar we'd get along. we could agree to disagree more easily. i let my friends rag on me for the stupidest things. i don't take the same ragging from people i don't know. the anonymous nature of message boards is the real source of frustration in a lot of cases. just a coupla cents from me.

Clumpy
06-11-2003, 02:12 PM
Not all of us are fins fans! :rolleyes:




;)

DPlus47
06-11-2003, 03:52 PM
sorry clumped, no disrespect meant: we're all football fans and we're passionate about it, so we could all find a way to hang and be cool and in person certain things are easier to interpret and get across...
even the fins & bills fans.

infiltrateib
06-11-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by WharfRat

The monkey thing sort of confuses me :hmmm: ... but, it sounds well thought out... :sceptic:


Just think about it.

Clumpy
06-11-2003, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by DPlus47
sorry clumped, no disrespect meant: we're all football fans and we're passionate about it, so we could all find a way to hang and be cool and in person certain things are easier to interpret and get across...
even the fins & bills fans.


I was just teasing ya D+ :)

I know no disrespect was intended

WharfRat
06-12-2003, 03:39 AM
Ok guys..... here's where it stands...

I was going to type out a rather long dissertation, quoting various posts in this thread, and addressing them all.
I told you I'd be frank.. so I will. I simply did not have it in me...

So just let me say this. The Staff of this site all work hard to make this place the best on the web. I think most of you will agree, that we have succeded in that endeavor. Are we perfect? no...certainly not. We are human, we make judgement calls, and therefore we do make mistakes. With this in mind, it should be said that we are also not above reproach, if there are times when a mod, mentor, or admin seems to step out of line, I hope that none of you would hesitate to bring it to another Staff member's attention. We may not handle it publicly, but there is very good communication between Staff members, and we often work things out amongst ourselves.
Another point... we can not possibly monitor every word that is posted in this forum... this is why we have the "report this post to a moderator" link. By clicking that link, it sends the Staff an Email, it also posts a thread in the Staff Only forum, which is hidden from the members.. this gives us a heads up to a potential problem, without the other members seeing it, and allows us to evaluate the post, and take action if we decide it's necessary. We don't always see it right away... none of us can be here 24/7... and sometimes our judgement is to do nothing, and let it die on its own. However, many times it requires action of some sort, and we try to get to it as sooon as we can.
As for the personal attack policy. Again, much of this is judgement and perception. If we percieve an attack on the poster, and not the post... we usually step in. We may not always target the person who started it.. but our main goal is to calm things down. That doesn't mean that we don't see the big picture.... it only means that we chose a direction that we percieve to be the quickest way to difuse the situation.
One last thing... we try not to play favorites.. we try to be impartial and fair.... but remember, it's all a judgement call, and we are human... if we were to have absolute zero tolerance for even hints of trouble... that would IMO kill the spirit of debate and discussion that this board thrives on.... so we must rely on our judgement.
We have almost 1800 members now... and growing faster than ever... it's a large community to police... so bear with us...


Thanks,

Jon

Clumpy
06-12-2003, 04:07 AM
I will cut you mods NO slack! ;)

WharfRat
06-12-2003, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by clumpedplatelet
I will cut you mods NO slack! ;)

I'm not asking anyone to cut us slack... especially you clump ;)

Clumpy
06-12-2003, 11:38 AM
:D

PhinstiGator
06-12-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by WharfRat
...I was going to type out a rather long dissertation, quoting various posts in this thread, and addressing them all.
I told you I'd be frank.. so I will. I simply did not have it in me...

You almost had it in you Rat. You almost did.

I just find it amusing that there are Dolphin fans that will have a natural bias against Dolphin players and Dolphin coaches. They assert the right to treat them with disrespect and assert the right to be loose with the facts while doing it. They try to continually stir up the mob emotionally and have a Frankensteinian storming of the castle to throw the bums out.

And then they are surprised that they get that same level of disrespect returned to them.

I'm am not happy about every player or coaching decision. But, I also know that they are working day and night to improve this team and that demands my loyalty and respect.

I love intelligent critical analysis. But, negative emotionalism...imo, has no value in setting the proper tone in a successful debate forum. It will always spiral downward...
:toliet:

DrAstroZoom
06-12-2003, 12:26 PM
"Frankesnsteinian." I gotta hang onto that one.

plc001
06-12-2003, 02:54 PM
First, I don't post much, but I read nearly everything and have done so for about a yr I guess.

Personally, I think this board is pretty good, even when it was governing itself. Course I come from the Herald board, which kind of resets your perspective of what "getting along" really is. Anyway, personal attacks does not seem like a problem, of course it happens, but I don't think it is a problem deserving of its own thread.

Moderators and administration does a great job of keeping this place running smooth. I don't think any changes need to be made in the current system. You're never going to make everyone happy. And if you tighten your grip to much more you'll quell any amount of open debate.

Anyway, my final 2 cents in this discussion.

themole
07-11-2003, 06:11 PM
Here's an idea, create a penalty box ...much like they have in hockey.

When a poster/posters, get a certain amount of warnings put them in the penalty box for a month. Then allow the general public to vote from this pool for "Asshole of the month".

I think it would be fun.

I volunteer to be the first "asshole" of finheaven due to my previous violations.:D

Marino1983
07-12-2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by themole
Here's an idea, create a penalty box ...much like they have in hockey.

When a poster/posters, get a certain amount of warnings put them in the penalty box for a month. Then allow the general public to vote from this pool for "Asshole of the month".

I think it would be fun.

I volunteer to be the first "asshole" of finheaven due to my previous violations.:D





I second your nomination Mole .....:eek: :chuckle: J/K

Marino1983

themole
07-13-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Marino1983






I second your nomination Mole .....:eek: :chuckle: J/K

Marino1983

:lol: M83 I kinda figured that would smoke you out .

Thanks for the vote of confidence.