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View Full Version : LeBron must be Magic, because he ain’t MJ



BAMAPHIN 22
01-28-2007, 01:43 PM
If Cavs would hand their star the point, they would rule the East

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16717588/displaymode/1176/rstry/16799211/)
If LeBron James were to take over the point guard position, the Cavs would dominate the Eastern Conference, writes columnist Sam Smith

Sometimes I don't get the point of what the Cleveland Cavaliers are doing. In LeBron James, they have one of the truly great weapons in the game and spend most of their time walking the ball up court, in isolations or with an occasional simple screen and then everyone back to rubber-necking like motorists crawling by a car crash.

Coming right to the point, you have to wonder sometimes if they know Zydrunas Ilgauskas is taller than almost everyone he has to play against, and perhaps giving him a chance to take advantage would be a good idea. What's the point, really, of having a slashing scorer like Larry Hughes standing around watching so much of the action? Sometimes you want to point out that Drew Gooden could be a classic post up forward with his size and strength.



The point! That's it, the point!


The point of all this is not the conventional wisdom that the Cavaliers need a better point guard than Eric Snow. It's that they have a guy who could be perhaps the elite point guard in the game, at least this side of Steve Nash.

It's LeBron James.

Because this is what is becoming clear, even if the Cavs can't seem to recognize it or that James won't accept it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16799211/

Amars
01-28-2007, 02:00 PM
Magic = Best Player Ever

NJFINSFAN1
01-28-2007, 02:06 PM
Magic = Best Player Ever

:eek: One of the best, but MJ is clearly the best!

Amars
01-28-2007, 02:08 PM
:eek: One of the best, but MJ is clearly the best!

No way. Magic is the best ever above MJ. To me its 1a Magic and 1b MJ. Magic is able to play every position on the floor. The bulls beat the lakers in 1991 because the bulls were healthy and lakers werent. If the lakers would of had Worthy #2 scorer and Brian Scott #3 scorer for the lakers playing they would of swept the bulls.

NJFINSFAN1
01-28-2007, 02:16 PM
No way. Magic is the best ever above MJ. To its 1a Magic and 1b MJ. Magic is able to play every position on the floor.

MJ could have too if he needed to, he was way more athletic then Magic.

Amars
01-28-2007, 02:23 PM
MJ could have too if he needed to, he was way more athletic then Magic.

I doubt MJ could of played Center like Magic did when he played for a injured Kareem Abdul Jabbar in the 1980 Nba Finals against Dr. J and 76ers. Jordan benefited from all the greats retiring. Leaving good player but not great players in the league. Hence the reason he started finally winning championship. The only great players during the Jordan era was Hakeem, Ewing and Barkley and those player cant even be mention in the same breath as the greats in the 80's. Except for Hakeem who I think is the arguably the best Center ever.

phinman1
01-28-2007, 02:39 PM
I doubt MJ could of played Center like Magic did when he played for a injured Kareem Abdul Jabbar in the 1980 Nba Finals against Dr. J and 76ers. Jordan benefited from all the greats retiring. Leaving good player but not great players in the league. Hence the reason he started finally winning championship. The only great players during the Jordan era was Hakeem, Ewing and Barkley and those player cant even be mention in the same breath as the greats in the 80's. Except for Hakeem who I think is the arguably the best Center ever.

I agree that the Jordan phenomenon was because of a "perfect storm" set of scenarios. He dominated in a time of mediocrity. There was a lack of great teams he had to go against. Quickly, who were the six teams the Bulls beat in the various Finals? None come to mind because none of them was great, and none of those teams ever came back to win a Finals, even in Jordan's absence.

The Celtics, Lakers and even those Moses/Dr. J Sixer team of the 80's were better than the Bulls. Had Jordan had to contend with those 80's juggernauts, he may not even have won a title.

Jordan was no doubt an all timer, but I believe Magic was every bit as good, if not better.

UCFinfan86
01-28-2007, 02:43 PM
I don't know if any of you guys are watching the Suns vs Cavs game, but it seems like whenever James plays the point(brings the ball up the court), he doesn't pass once, for 5 straight possesions to close out the first quarter he brought it up and didn't pass or even look to pass once.

Yes i know he is by far the best player on his team, but you still have to pass, basketball is still a team game

Amars
01-28-2007, 02:43 PM
Jordan also benefited from the fantastic marketing the Nba/Nike did for him which was basically unknown prior to the 90's

UCFinfan86
01-28-2007, 02:44 PM
I agree that the Jordan phenomenon was because of a "perfect storm" set of scenarios. He dominated in a time of mediocrity. There was a lack of great teams he had to go against. Quickly, who were the six teams the Bulls beat in the various Finals? None come to mind because none of them was great, and none of those teams ever came back to win a Finals, even in Jordan's absence.

The Celtics, Lakers and even those Moses/Dr. J Sixer team of the 80's were better than the Bulls. Had Jordan had to contend with those 80's juggernauts, he may not even have won a title.

Jordan was no doubt an all timer, but I believe Magic was every bit as good, if not better.

Only Jordan team that really sticks out to me was the Jazz team

Amars
01-28-2007, 02:46 PM
Only Jordan team that really sticks out to me was the Jazz team

Bulls beat the Lakers, Jazz, and Barkley Suns I believe. I dont know if their was another team.

phinman1
01-28-2007, 02:50 PM
Bulls beat the Lakers, Jazz, and Barkley Suns I believe. I dont know if their was another team.


Believe they beat the Blazers as well.

FinsNYanksFan13
01-28-2007, 02:56 PM
Magic Johnson can't touch Jordan. Jordan had more rings with less talent and revolutionized the sport!

Slappy8800
01-28-2007, 02:59 PM
:eek: One of the best, but MJ is clearly the best!

id take wilt and bill russel over MJ

Slappy8800
01-28-2007, 03:00 PM
Magic Johnson can't touch Jordan. Jordan had more rings with less talent and revolutionized the sport!

how did he revolutionize the sport? its not like hes wayne gretzky and the league expanded due solely to his play.

Amars
01-28-2007, 03:03 PM
Magic Johnson can't touch Jordan. Jordan had more rings with less talent and revolutionized the sport!

Hmm being 23 I bet you grew up only watching Jordan in the 90's. I guess you can place Robert Horry and his 6rings as one of the greats also. Please enlighten us how he revolutionized the sport and against WHO or what great team?

djfresh47
01-28-2007, 04:33 PM
Bulls beat the Lakers, Jazz, and Barkley Suns I believe. I dont know if their was another team.


Seattle also I think.

finswin56
01-28-2007, 05:05 PM
how did he revolutionize the sport? its not like hes wayne gretzky and the league expanded due solely to his play.
He revolutionized marketing and advertising, not the game.

I do think MJ was the greatest (at least of my lifetime), but Magic is very close. There was never a more versatile player than Magic. MJ was just more dominant. They're very difficult to compare. Magic rarely took over a game with his scoring, but made his entire team better from day 1. Unfortunately, it took Jordan a few years of playoff failure to do the same.

Martel
01-28-2007, 05:49 PM
Jordan picked up where Dr. J left off and was doing things on the court no one had ever seen. He actually ruined the slam dunk contsest. He revolutionized the game IMO. Jordan 1a/ Magic 1b

Fresh
01-28-2007, 06:36 PM
LBJ simply doesn't have that killer instinct that it takes to be the best. He disappeared quite a few times down the stretch in the Pistons series, and after being up 3-2, they had a real shot. They had a real shot in Game 6, but he disappeared.

I used to call the "three best" Kobe, Wade, & LeBron. Now, I have a hard time placing the three in a tie. More like Kobe & Wade, then LeBron #3.

Rocky Raccoon
01-28-2007, 06:38 PM
LBJ simply doesn't have that killer instinct that it takes to be the best. He disappeared quite a few times down the stretch in the Pistons series, and after being up 3-2, they had a real shot. They had a real shot in Game 6, but he disappeared.

I used to call the "three best" Kobe, Wade, & LeBron. Now, I have a hard time placing the three in a tie. More like Kobe & Wade, then LeBron #3.

I know you'll disagree and I know you've made your argument before but there is no way you can have a top 3 and not have Steve Nash in there. I still think he is the best player in the NBA.

King Felix
01-28-2007, 07:11 PM
Believe they beat the Blazers as well.yup:rolleyes:

djfresh47
01-28-2007, 11:23 PM
I doubt MJ could of played Center like Magic did when he played for a injured Kareem Abdul Jabbar in the 1980 Nba Finals against Dr. J and 76ers. Jordan benefited from all the greats retiring. Leaving good player but not great players in the league. Hence the reason he started finally winning championship. The only great players during the Jordan era was Hakeem, Ewing and Barkley and those player cant even be mention in the same breath as the greats in the 80's. Except for Hakeem who I think is the arguably the best Center ever.


David Robinson was a great player. Shaq was in the league also. Malone certainly was a great player and ya could throw Stockton in as well.

Fresh
01-28-2007, 11:40 PM
I know you'll disagree and I know you've made your argument before but there is no way you can have a top 3 and not have Steve Nash in there. I still think he is the best player in the NBA.

In that sense, then IMO, Gilbert Arenas should be up there as well.

I just think that Kobe, Wade, & LBJ do so much more than Steve Nash.

Nash is pretty much all offense, nothing else at all........

The reason why I'd call Kobe Bryant THE best player in the NBA, is because he does absolutely everything you can ask a player to do, at an extremely high level. None of these superstars can defend like he does, and he can put up as much if not more points than all of them as well. I think Dwyane Wade is the closest, and he can do a few things better than Kobe.

IMO, LeBron James is clearly behind the two. I call it like I see it though, and respect your opinion because you're calling it like you see it. :cooldude:

Boik14
01-29-2007, 12:42 AM
how did he revolutionize the sport? its not like hes wayne gretzky and the league expanded due solely to his play.If you cant see how he revolutionized the sport then stick to hockey bro cause to say he didnt is absurd :wink:

The Jordan Rules made defense a priority. Thats when teams that played defense more then offense started winning. Teams like Detroit, Houston, even the Knicks and heat were successful to a large degree.

Ratings before Jordan and after Jordan shifted tremendously. Post Jordan theyre down again. I.e. people paid to see Jordan or at least paid attention to him when he played. He was Basketball's Gretzky. The league expanded because of the marketing and popularity that Jordan helped create. And lets not get into how many dollars he generated. he Jordan name is worth more then many businesses in name alone.

I dont even have to say a first name and if i say jordan you know who im talking about, theres only 1.

Roman529
01-29-2007, 12:53 AM
I don't know if any of you guys are watching the Suns vs Cavs game, but it seems like whenever James plays the point(brings the ball up the court), he doesn't pass once, for 5 straight possesions to close out the first quarter he brought it up and didn't pass or even look to pass once.

Yes i know he is by far the best player on his team, but you still have to pass, basketball is still a team game

The problem with this whole column is that:

1. LeBron is not Magic Johnson.....he is nowhere near the passer Magic was;
2. The Lakers dominated during "Showtime," running the ball up and down the floor....the NBA is no longer an up-tempto game....it is a game of constant slow basketball, constant fouls, and shoot first pass later players.

FinsNYanksFan13
01-29-2007, 01:16 AM
If you cant see how he revolutionized the sport then stick to hockey bro cause to say he didnt is absurd :wink:

The Jordan Rules made defense a priority. Thats when teams that played defense more then offense started winning. Teams like Detroit, Houston, even the Knicks and heat were successful to a large degree.

Ratings before Jordan and after Jordan shifted tremendously. Post Jordan theyre down again. I.e. people paid to see Jordan or at least paid attention to him when he played. He was Basketball's Gretzky. The league expanded because of the marketing and popularity that Jordan helped create. And lets not get into how many dollars he generated. he Jordan name is worth more then many businesses in name alone.

I dont even have to say a first name and if i say jordan you know who im talking about, theres only 1.



Add to that the fact that Jordan basically single-handidly made the NBA an International success and brought the game across seas with his popularity, and I'd say he's done his share in revolutionizing the game!

Boik14
01-29-2007, 01:19 AM
The problem with this whole column is that:

1. LeBron is not Magic Johnson.....he is nowhere near the passer Magic was;
2. The Lakers dominated during "Showtime," running the ball up and down the floor....the NBA is no longer an up-tempto game....it is a game of constant slow basketball, constant fouls, and shoot first pass later players.
1. Agreed
2. That was the NBA 3 years ago. Now its changing again. The Suns, the Knicks, the Nuggets, etc. The reason it changed in the first place was because of the lack of PG's who could make decisions and be unselfish. Now a handful of teams run regularly again and many more pick and choose spots. Its no longer an up tempo track meet game but it isnt a grind it out half court game anymore either.

djfresh47
01-29-2007, 08:03 PM
1. Agreed
2. That was the NBA 3 years ago. Now its changing again. The Suns, the Knicks, the Nuggets, etc. The reason it changed in the first place was because of the lack of PG's who could make decisions and be unselfish. Now a handful of teams run regularly again and many more pick and choose spots. Its no longer an up tempo track meet game but it isnt a grind it out half court game anymore either.


What has the running style done in the playoffs of late? Phoenix made the Western Conference finals last year but the two best teams in the West were San Antonio and Dallas. Dallas was a good team but untill they had the ability to stop a team they were not championship caliber. The East is as bad as it's ever been so maybe a team can run it's way to the finals there but still Detroit probably is the favorite because they can shut down teams. Phoenix can run because they've got a guy whose on his way to a 3rd straight MVP along with guys who can hit jumpshots and Stoudamire who is returning to form.

When people tell me they prefer the College game to the NBA they always give me the same garbage line "they play no defense in the NBA." Casual fans don't want to watch the teams that play defense and label them "boring." So I find that quite hypocritical. Also considering the College game has an extended free throw for it's 3-point line it can lead to an inferior team winning because they got hot, which probably is part of reason March Madness is so popular.

Boik14
01-29-2007, 08:23 PM
What has the running style done in the playoffs of late? Phoenix made the Western Conference finals last year but the two best teams in the West were San Antonio and Dallas. Dallas was a good team but untill they had the ability to stop a team they were not championship caliber. The East is as bad as it's ever been so maybe a team can run it's way to the finals there but still Detroit probably is the favorite because they can shut down teams. Phoenix can run because they've got a guy whose on his way to a 3rd straight MVP along with guys who can hit jumpshots and Stoudamire who is returning to form.

When people tell me they prefer the College game to the NBA they always give me the same garbage line "they play no defense in the NBA." Casual fans don't want to watch the teams that play defense and label them "boring." So I find that quite hypocritical. Also considering the College game has an extended free throw for it's 3-point line it can lead to an inferior team winning because they got hot, which probably is part of reason March Madness is so popular. I wasnt saying that the running style is better just that the NBA game is slowly moving back towards that because of the lack of good big men available. You totally missed the point of that post and made it out to seem like I was saying a running style was better. Clearly I wasnt saying that. All i did was point out that teams run again where as a few years ago they werent. Part of it is now there are better PG's available capable of making decisions, another part is that teams see that running can at least get them through the regular season with a good record even if it doesnt lead to great postseason success. Whats better is what fits your personel.

For instance, you cant be a good half court team if you dont have an interior post presence and many teams do not have that. Some do, like Phoenix, but they run anyway because its better suited for their personel. But a team like Denver that doesnt have a guy who can draw a double team in the post is going to struggle in a half court game more because melo is a slasher who needs space not a back to the basket post guy, and Camby is awkward in his post moves. He doesnt have a turnaround J or a running hook, hes a freelancer who scoops up loose balls or hits the occassional J so its a matter of what your players do best and coaching to that strength and away from your weakness.

Roman529
01-29-2007, 09:04 PM
When people tell me they prefer the College game to the NBA they always give me the same garbage line "they play no defense in the NBA.".

I think there are some NBA teams that play defense, but they cannot play the various zones defenses that you have in the college game. I can't wait for March Madness when you always have a lot of upsets. I think the Air Force Falcons are going to surprise a lot of people.

djfresh47
01-29-2007, 11:45 PM
I wasnt saying that the running style is better just that the NBA game is slowly moving back towards that because of the lack of good big men available. You totally missed the point of that post and made it out to seem like I was saying a running style was better. Clearly I wasnt saying that. All i did was point out that teams run again where as a few years ago they werent. Part of it is now there are better PG's available capable of making decisions, another part is that teams see that running can at least get them through the regular season with a good record even if it doesnt lead to great postseason success. Whats better is what fits your personel.

For instance, you cant be a good half court team if you dont have an interior post presence and many teams do not have that. Some do, like Phoenix, but they run anyway because its better suited for their personel. But a team like Denver that doesnt have a guy who can draw a double team in the post is going to struggle in a half court game more because melo is a slasher who needs space not a back to the basket post guy, and Camby is awkward in his post moves. He doesnt have a turnaround J or a running hook, hes a freelancer who scoops up loose balls or hits the occassional J so its a matter of what your players do best and coaching to that strength and away from your weakness.

I don't think teams are moving towards runnings just it gets over-emphasized with a team like Phoenix or even when Denver does it. There are few good centers in the league but I don't think their is a lack of good big men. It's just that Sportscenter likes to glorify the combo guards and then they're labeled the next Michael Jordan or the best player in the league yet they're still not the most dominant. The 3-best teams in the league have elite big-men in Dirk/Amare/Duncan. Guys like Oden/Durant/Noah should be in the next draft and i'd almost gurantee Oden/Durant go 1-2. It's not that big men aren't out there it's just that the position has changed and they're not Patrick Ewing or Hakeen Olajuwon guys who sit in the low post because they're getting doubled and triple teamed. The combo-guards get all the publicity but I think big-men still dominate the game yet guys like Wade & LeBron are more marketable.

WestCKoastiN
01-30-2007, 01:53 AM
not the "best player" again.. clearly everyone is their own type of player.. talking about the mj magic stuff.. as for bron he is already dominating at sf.. but bball is a team sport not a one man show.