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NJFINSFAN1
01-28-2007, 03:28 PM
Okay, I'm going to try a poll here

Jordan or Magic or other

And explain why.

Amars
01-28-2007, 03:36 PM
:lol:
There should be a requirement that you should have seen at least the career and the era of competition of both these players. That like comparing who the best HR hitter Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=181183

NJFINSFAN1
01-28-2007, 03:37 PM
:lol:
There should be a requirement that you should have seen at least the career and the era of competition of both these players. That like comparing who the best HR hitter Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth


Well, I can argue you may have been to young to understand Magic and Jordan.:rolleyes:

Amars
01-28-2007, 03:38 PM
Well, I can argue you may have been to young to understand Magic and Jordan.:rolleyes:

Just seeing Magic Career from the mid to the end the competition was way better then the Jordan era which I saw the entire of. Chuck Daly Pistion defense alone would of put Jordan on his arse for driving to the hoop.

Enforcerfin33
01-28-2007, 03:51 PM
Jordan was the best ever, there has never been a player like him before and their probably never will be. I am just happy that i got to watch him year after year growing up.

Amars
01-28-2007, 04:36 PM
NJ do you honestly think Jordan would of won 6 Title in the 80's? or even 3 titles with legendary teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Pistoins, and 76ers? He would of been lucky to win 1.

GreenMonster
01-28-2007, 04:52 PM
Jordan

Better Scorer, Better Defender, and he won more with much much less.. Don't get me wrong Magic is great player, but Jordan on top of being great had a desire to win like no other player has.. He defines "Killer Instinct" on the court..

NJFINSFAN1
01-28-2007, 04:53 PM
NJ do you honestly think Jordan would of won 6 Title in the 80's? or even 3 titles with legendary teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Pistoins, and 76ers? He would of been lucky to win 1.


Yes, I think he would have won titlles during those times.

Amars
01-28-2007, 04:54 PM
Jordan

Better Scorer, Better Defender, and he won more with much much less.. Don't get me wrong Magic is great player, but Jordan on top of being great had a desire to win like no other player has.. He defines "Killer Instinct" on the court..


You forgot to add against weaker competition.

Amars
01-28-2007, 05:01 PM
Yes, I think he would have won titlles during those times.

Well I feel he wouldnt have. If anything he would won 1 but not 6.

WestCKoastiN
01-28-2007, 05:04 PM
Both no doubt.. jordan has more rings of course but i gotta show love for both.

NJFINSFAN1
01-28-2007, 05:25 PM
I think Greenie said it the best, he had a desire to win like no other player has had or has had since.

Amars, I respect your view, but you also have to understand he won with less players on his team then Magic ever had to play with.

I think if you would have put Jordan on pretty much any team during that time, he would have won.

Amars
01-28-2007, 06:07 PM
I think Greenie said it the best, he had a desire to win like no other player has had or has had since.

Amars, I respect your view, but you also have to understand he won with less players on his team then Magic ever had to play with.

I think if you would have put Jordan on pretty much any team during that time, he would have won.

I really dont agree that he had nobody. People questioned if he would of won so many championship without Pippen.

phinphan896
01-28-2007, 06:27 PM
It has to be Jordan for two reasons:

a) Look at the numbers, i know magic got more assists but michaels numbers were just spectacular. The guy averaged over 20 ppg when he was 40 years old. Who does that.

b) He won six championships. People say Tom Brady is better than peyton because he has the ring, well so does michael, one for every finger and his big toe

Amars
01-28-2007, 06:32 PM
It has to be Jordan for two reasons:

a) Look at the numbers, i know magic got more assists but michaels numbers were just spectacular. The guy averaged over 20 ppg when he was 40 years old. Who does that.

b) He won six championships. People say Tom Brady is better than peyton because he has the ring, well so does michael, one for every finger and his big toe

Again Micheal had no competition. No Elite teams in the 90's beside the Bulls. The 80's had 4 of the best teams of ALL TIME. Hence when all these team players retired Micheal finally start winning.

Look at these 80 teams



1982-83 Philadelphia 76ers 65 - 17 (.793)
Moses Malone joined the 76ers as a free agent and teamed with Julius Erving, Andrew Toney, Maurice Cheeks and Bobby Jones to bring the 76ers their first title in 16 seasons...Malone proclaimed the 76ers would sweep through the NBA Playoffs in "Fo', Fo', Fo'" and he wasn't far off as Philadelphia cruised in "Fo', Fi', Fo'" to post the best winning percentage in NBA Playoffs history at .923 (12-1).

1985-86 Boston Celtics 67 - 15 (.817)
Stung by a 4-2 loss to the L.A. Lakers in the 1985 NBA Finals, Larry Bird led the Celtics featuring Robert Parish, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge and a rejuvenated Bill Walton to the best record in franchise history and a 4-2 defeat of Houston in the 1986 NBA Finals...Posted 40-1 record at Boston Garden, best home winning percentage (.976) in NBA history...Fifth-best overall winning percentage ever (.817).

1986-87 L.A. Lakers 65 - 17 (.793)
The Lakers recaptured their place atop the NBA thanks to the "Showtime" fast-break style spearheaded by Earvin "Magic" Johnson and teammates Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, James Worthy, Byron Scott, A.C. Green and Michael Cooper...Johnson averaged a career-best 23.9 points per game and led the league in assists with a 12.2 average...Lakers defeated Boston 4-2 in the 1987 NBA Finals after winning 11 of their first 12 games in the playoffs.

1988-89 Detroit Pistons 63 - 19 (.768)
Isiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, Joe Dumars, Mark Aguirre, Vinnie Johnson and Dennis Rodman combined to form the heart of one of the strongest defensive teams in the modern era...Lacking a dominant center, Pistons featured a potent three-guard rotation and a deep bench that rebounded and defended relentlessly...Pistons were 15-2 in 1989 playoffs, including 4-0 sweep of L.A. Lakers in 1989 NBA Finals.

Roman529
01-28-2007, 09:15 PM
Wilt.

Boik14
01-28-2007, 09:18 PM
Very different players but theres 2 glaring differences I see:
- Jordan had defenses designed to stop him because he was a threat to score from anywhere, as well as elevate his teammates play.
- Jordan played in a much more difficult defensive era. 80's was all run and gun and try and outscore the othe rteam. By the late 80's and early 90's jordan had the NYK, Pistons, Pacers and Cavs all hammering him with hard fouls everytime he went to the hoop. Magic never had that. This extreme difference sin style of play are no different then the reasons in which wilt was so dominant being how he was the only 7 footer in the league during that time and only Bill Russell was over 6'9 aside from wilt. Well with magic because of the differences in style of play, well im not sure those laker teams would have been so good in other era because they werent great on defense.

I loved watching both players though except when Jordan was killing my Knicks.

I once wrote this and was published for this poem about Jordan though. It actually came in, top 25 (11th) out of over 10,000 selections:

As he glides so smoothly through the air,
and looks down on you from way up there,
Reverse Jams and three-sixties such amazing dunks,
he plays defense also and makes opponents throw up junk.

Falling away from the hoop, tough shot,
No doubt its going to drop.
Put two defenders on him,
Still cant make him stop.

You'll never stop him one on one,
Even if you had a shotgun.
Your only prayer is to hope he misses, which doesnt happen often,
Also known as the greatest ever, even when he'll be in his coffin.

Section126
01-29-2007, 12:15 AM
First of all...magic was an insane offensive force...aside from his numbers.

He contributed to a high octane offense similar to the Suns of current day.

In a way...he was a 6'9 Steve Nash.

I loved watching his career and I loved those Laker teams as well.

One thing separates MJ from Magic....that is defense.

basketball in the 80's was a site to see....No defense. I mean ..NOOOOOO defense.

Magic never defended. he was a defensive liability. Jordan was a stopper.

End of comparison.

Magic played on all-star teams.

Jordan had guys called Cartwright, Hodges, Paxson, and Brian Williams of all people.

The rosters are not even close (Lakers vastly superior)...yet the bulls dominated anyway. I don't care about which era you do it. 6 rings is still 6 rings.

So it is MJ...not even close.

If Kobe wins one more championship...(without SHAQ)...he will be the best of all-time. IMO.

Enforcerfin33
01-29-2007, 12:28 AM
NJ do you honestly think Jordan would of won 6 Title in the 80's? or even 3 titles with legendary teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Pistoins, and 76ers? He would of been lucky to win 1.
You cant be serious, are you serious? You fail to look at the fact that there is a huge talent deficiency between the decades as far as teams. It was alot easier to have three or four all stars on one team in the 80's then it was in the 90's. MJ had Pippen, honestly he had..Pippen. He had great role players around him, and a great coach, but he never had a Worthy,Jabbar, Cooper combo behind him.

Kev83
01-29-2007, 12:31 AM
Bill Russell.

nyjunc
01-29-2007, 09:13 AM
NJ do you honestly think Jordan would of won 6 Title in the 80's? or even 3 titles with legendary teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Pistoins, and 76ers? He would of been lucky to win 1.

Jordan also didn't have kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Green, Wilkes,... The NBA expanded and the talent pool was spread out. Michael dominated his era more than Magic and I grew up rooting for the Lakers and I love Magic but Michael was the better player and even Magic would acknoweldge that.

Enforcerfin33
01-29-2007, 09:14 AM
Jordan also didn't have kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Green, Wilkes,... The NBA expanded and the talent pool was spread out. Michael dominated his era more than Magic and I grew up rooting for the Lakers and I love Magic but Michael was the better player and even Magic would acknoweldge that.
Now I just feel dirty, we actually agreed about something.

nyjunc
01-29-2007, 09:21 AM
Now I just feel dirty, we actually agreed about something.

Don't feel dirty, it just means you are on the right side now:D

Amars
01-29-2007, 01:01 PM
You cant be serious, are you serious? You fail to look at the fact that there is a huge talent deficiency between the decades as far as teams. It was alot easier to have three or four all stars on one team in the 80's then it was in the 90's. MJ had Pippen, honestly he had..Pippen. He had great role players around him, and a great coach, but he never had a Worthy,Jabbar, Cooper combo behind him.

MJ, Pippen and Phil Jackson argueably the greatest coach of all-time. Would you deny Pippen to the HOF? Your right about talent deciciency from 80's to the 90's dont compare. So then you agree that it was tougher to win in the 80's and Jordan wouldnt of won as many rings because of these great teams.

Amars
01-29-2007, 01:06 PM
First of all...magic was an insane offensive force...aside from his numbers.

He contributed to a high octane offense similar to the Suns of current day.

In a way...he was a 6'9 Steve Nash.

I loved watching his career and I loved those Laker teams as well.

One thing separates MJ from Magic....that is defense.

basketball in the 80's was a site to see....No defense. I mean ..NOOOOOO defense.

Magic never defended. he was a defensive liability. Jordan was a stopper.

End of comparison.

Magic played on all-star teams.

Jordan had guys called Cartwright, Hodges, Paxson, and Brian Williams of all people.

The rosters are not even close (Lakers vastly superior)...yet the bulls dominated anyway. I don't care about which era you do it. 6 rings is still 6 rings.

So it is MJ...not even close.

If Kobe wins one more championship...(without SHAQ)...he will be the best of all-time. IMO.

If the lakers worthy and scott would of played in the finals in 91 vs. the bulls, Magic would of had 6 rings and MJ 5. Its not like Magic didnt have alot of rings as it is.

Section126
01-29-2007, 01:20 PM
It was not tougher to win in the 80's...

Those Laker teams were so stacked with talent that they basically had a bye int he 1st and 2nd rounds...and even then..they always faced an overmatched team in the WCF's.

The Bulls dominated without a great roster.

Seriously...those Bulls teams had a superstar, a great player (Pippen) and a bunch of role players. They then added Rodman..the King of the role players.

wazzy
01-29-2007, 01:44 PM
MJ, Pippen and Phil Jackson argueably the greatest coach of all-time. Would you deny Pippen to the HOF? Your right about talent deciciency from 80's to the 90's dont compare. So then you agree that it was tougher to win in the 80's and Jordan wouldnt of won as many rings because of these great teams.

How about this then seeing how I see more and more bias with your opinions I want you to answer 1 question of mine?

If Jordan played on the Lakers in the 80'2 how many championships would they of won?

And if Magic played on the bulls in the 90's how many championships would they of won?

I finish my argument with that because you know Jordan would of dominated regardless in the 80's and with a stacked team they probably could of 7 of 8 of them hands down no argument!

Enforcerfin33
01-29-2007, 02:02 PM
MJ, Pippen and Phil Jackson argueably the greatest coach of all-time. Would you deny Pippen to the HOF? Your right about talent deciciency from 80's to the 90's dont compare. So then you agree that it was tougher to win in the 80's and Jordan wouldnt of won as many rings because of these great teams.
Would Pippen be a HOF'mer without Jordan? How well did he do without him?

phinman1
01-29-2007, 03:01 PM
It was not tougher to win in the 80's...

Those Laker teams were so stacked with talent that they basically had a bye int he 1st and 2nd rounds...and even then..they always faced an overmatched team in the WCF's.

The Bulls dominated without a great roster.

Seriously...those Bulls teams had a superstar, a great player (Pippen) and a bunch of role players. They then added Rodman..the King of the role players.

What? It was a hell of a lot tougher to win a title in the 80's. Simple question, would the Bulls have won 6 titles if they had to play those Celtics or Sixers teams in the East, and then face the Lakers in the Finals? If you answered no, which any sane man would, then yeah it was tougher in the 80's.

What do you think McHale or Moses would have done to Wennington or Longley (and yes McHale would have abused Rodman)? You think Kareem would've eaten up those two? The Bulls thrived in a time of mediocrity, period.

Section126
01-29-2007, 04:12 PM
What? It was a hell of a lot tougher to win a title in the 80's. Simple question, would the Bulls have won 6 titles if they had to play those Celtics or Sixers teams in the East, and then face the Lakers in the Finals? If you answered no, which any sane man would, then yeah it was tougher in the 80's.

What do you think McHale or Moses would have done to Wennington or Longley (and yes McHale would have abused Rodman)? You think Kareem would've eaten up those two? The Bulls thrived in a time of mediocrity, period.



You are not paying attention.

Magic played on one of those insanely talented teams. he didn't have to go through the Lakers.

The comparison is between Magic and MJ. Nobody brought up Bird or McHale or Malone or anybody.

The list of all-star players that Magic played with, says it all.

Amars
01-29-2007, 04:16 PM
How about this then seeing how I see more and more bias with your opinions I want you to answer 1 question of mine?

If Jordan played on the Lakers in the 80'2 how many championships would they of won?

And if Magic played on the bulls in the 90's how many championships would they of won?

I finish my argument with that because you know Jordan would of dominated regardless in the 80's and with a stacked team they probably could of 7 of 8 of them hands down no argument!

So he would of won 7-8 championship in the 80's :lol: Cmon man you dont really think that. With the Piston, 76ers, Celtics I doubt that. Maybe 3 but not 7-8.

Amars
01-29-2007, 04:18 PM
Would Pippen be a HOF'mer without Jordan? How well did he do without him?

The same can be said for jordan. How well did he do without Pippen. Pippen took the Blazers to WCF and should of won if they didnt break down at the end of the 4th against the lakers. Magic without Pat Riley,Kareem, Worthy and Scott took his team the the FINALS.

phinman1
01-29-2007, 04:36 PM
You are not paying attention.

Magic played on one of those insanely talented teams. he didn't have to go through the Lakers.

The comparison is between Magic and MJ. Nobody brought up Bird or McHale or Malone or anybody.

The list of all-star players that Magic played with, says it all.


No, you aren't paying attention. All supporters of MJ will point to the number of titles won in support of him being the greatest ever. As one who thinks Magic was every bit as good if not better, I say that yes MJ won 6 titles, but again he did it in an era of mediocrity. If Jordan had to face the Boston and Philly teams of the 80's, he wouldn't have won six titles, and the "greatest of all time" talk would be tempered.

Section126
01-29-2007, 05:09 PM
No, you aren't paying attention. All supporters of MJ will point to the number of titles won in support of him being the greatest ever. As one who thinks Magic was every bit as good if not better, I say that yes MJ won 6 titles, but again he did it in an era of mediocrity. If Jordan had to face the Boston and Philly teams of the 80's, he wouldn't have won six titles, and the "greatest of all time" talk would be tempered.

You are still not paying attention.

Noston and Philly played in the east.


The west was a cake walk for the most part in Magic's day.

That is why I say it was easier for him to win. He was always in the finals.

You make it enough times...you win.

ANYTHING can happen in the finals.

The hard part is getting there.

That is why I say that it was easier for Magic to win than it was for Jordan.

get it now?

phinman1
01-29-2007, 05:38 PM
You are still not paying attention.

Noston and Philly played in the east.


The west was a cake walk for the most part in Magic's day.

That is why I say it was easier for him to win. He was always in the finals.

You make it enough times...you win.

ANYTHING can happen in the finals.

The hard part is getting there.

That is why I say that it was easier for Magic to win than it was for Jordan.

get it now?



Yeah, and the East was a real cauldron of greatness in MJ's heyday.:lol:

I realize Philly and Boston were in the East, thanks. Anyway, who cares where they were? It's about the teams in the league you have to defeat on the way to the title, whether they be in the West or East.

Saying it was easier for Magic to win than Jordan is absolutely ridiculous. I have already documented the great teams Magic and the Lakers had to continuously battle.


Tell me, what great teams did MJ and the Bulls go up against? I'll answer that for you--none. Jordan came around at just the right time, had he been born 10 years earlier, and peaked as a player in the early to mid 80's instead of the early to mid 90's, it's conceivable he wouldn't even have won a title. Unless of course he was a Laker, Celtic or Sixer.

nyjunc
01-30-2007, 08:14 AM
It was not tougher to win in the 80's...

Those Laker teams were so stacked with talent that they basically had a bye int he 1st and 2nd rounds...and even then..they always faced an overmatched team in the WCF's.

The Bulls dominated without a great roster.

Seriously...those Bulls teams had a superstar, a great player (Pippen) and a bunch of role players. They then added Rodman..the King of the role players.

The Bulls never had a serious threat in the East after they started winning. They toyed w/ teams whil in the 80s you had the celtics, Sixers and Pistons in the East and the Lakers had to deal w/ the Rockets and Suns. There were better teams that the Lakers had to deal w/ in the 80s.


The same can be said for jordan. How well did he do without Pippen. Pippen took the Blazers to WCF and should of won if they didnt break down at the end of the 4th against the lakers. Magic without Pat Riley,Kareem, Worthy and Scott took his team the the FINALS.

Riley and kareem were gone, Worhty and Scott were still there. A better argument would be Magic won a title w/ Paul Westhead as HC.


You are still not paying attention.

Noston and Philly played in the east.


The west was a cake walk for the most part in Magic's day.

That is why I say it was easier for him to win. He was always in the finals.

You make it enough times...you win.

ANYTHING can happen in the finals.

The hard part is getting there.

That is why I say that it was easier for Magic to win than it was for Jordan.

get it now?

The East in the 90s was a cakewalk for the Bulls and the West Champ didn't offer much more competition unlike the East for the lakers in the 80s.