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View Full Version : Troy Smith/ Leon Hall/ Kenny Irons Are Falling



adamprez2003
01-31-2007, 07:59 PM
McShay on ESPN just said that Troy Smith has been downgraded to the 3rd or 4th round by most scouts after failing to impress at the Senior Bowl week. Kenny Irons is now a 2nd round pick and Leon Hall has fallen out of the top ten after scouts realized how slow he is

Joneal7
01-31-2007, 08:03 PM
Smith in the 4th looks ok to me

adamprez2003
01-31-2007, 08:04 PM
4th round could have some interesting QB prospects. Kolb/Smith/Edwards

phins3454
01-31-2007, 08:20 PM
that guy is an idiot though

motioncityhifi
01-31-2007, 08:25 PM
that guy is an idiot though

why do you say that?

adamprez2003
01-31-2007, 08:28 PM
that guy is an idiot though

Dont know him enough to have an opinion but Ive been saying the same thing about Hall and Irons just sucked this year. Troy Smith didnt impress me that much but dropping to 3rd or 4th is somewhat surprising. He said that he was way too inconsistent with his accuracy during SeniorBowl week and after the poor play against the speedy Gators scouts just soured on him. Add the height issue and lack of accuracy when confronted by speed and you can see why he's dropping

Crunkcore
01-31-2007, 08:33 PM
Guess Hall isn't a choice at 9 now :D

Finsfan79
01-31-2007, 08:48 PM
thank god, Hall doesnt have number 1 CB potential anyways. But he will be a solid number 2 in the NFL

MustangFinFan
01-31-2007, 08:53 PM
can u all explain to me HOW a heisman trophy winner DOESNT get drafted in Top 5??? has that ever happened? i thought Heisman Winners were like the best player.....it amazes me a Heisman Winner would get drafted in the 4th round.

ChambersWI
01-31-2007, 09:08 PM
can u all explain to me HOW a heisman trophy winner DOESNT get drafted in Top 5??? has that ever happened? i thought Heisman Winners were like the best player.....it amazes me a Heisman Winner would get drafted in the 4th round.

Jason White undrafted, Charlie Ward undrafted, Eric Crouch 3rd round, Danny Whuerful 4th round(I think), Gino Torrieta... pretty late I think 7th.

Happens more than you'd think, there's probably more. Truth of the matter is, The Heisman is an award presented to the player with the best statistical season for that year. Troy Smith just doesn't have good measurables to be a first round pick (namely his height).

That is not saying he won't be a good QB though. I compare him to Drew Brees; a guy who also fell because of height. The biggest difference though is Brees pretty much carried Purdue to the Rose Bowl by himself, Smith had a pretty easy road to the National Championship Game (thus I think he's falling, he got fumblitis and was a bit shakey against Michigan at times, and he disappeared against Florida).

Oh yeah, and McShay is probably the worst when it comes to analyzing IMO (Not saying he's wrong about Hall either, as a Michigan fan I've admitted that Revis could jump him).

But everything the consesus among most scouts that were at the senior bowl were that Hall was solid but not spectacular (so that might cause him to fall), Smith was a bit shakey but was the best QB down there, and Irons supposedly looked ok.

Again, I personally do not like McShay and I rank him way behind Mayock and Kiper, and I also like Scott Wright and DJ Boyer (2 online scouts, Wright owns NFLDraftCountdown) alot more.

TakeIt2DaHouse
01-31-2007, 09:09 PM
heisman is more of a curse if anything not a gift especially to high hesimans usually dont get drafted high

phins3454
01-31-2007, 09:10 PM
can u all explain to me HOW a heisman trophy winner DOESNT get drafted in Top 5??? has that ever happened? i thought Heisman Winners were like the best player.....it amazes me a Heisman Winner would get drafted in the 4th round.

Jason White went undrafted and he won the Heisman he was QB for Oaklohoma

Chris Weinke won the Heisman and didnt get drafted until the 5th round (QB for Florida state)

Eric Crouch Won the Heisman and didnt get drafted until the third round (QB for Nebraska)

TotoreMexico
01-31-2007, 09:15 PM
McShay on ESPN just said that Troy Smith has been downgraded to the 3rd or 4th round by most scouts after failing to impress at the Senior Bowl week. Kenny Irons is now a 2nd round pick and Leon Hall has fallen out of the top ten after scouts realized how slow he is

Not really surprising...

phins3454
01-31-2007, 09:15 PM
why do you say that?

He said earlier this season that Troy Smith would be the 1st QB taken, and I have always thought Troy Smith wasnt a top 5 pick, b/c of his size and his mechanics. Hes just now figuring out that Troy Smith sucks. Same thing with kenny Irons, everyone knows he had a terrible season, I could have told you his stocked has dropped. He just didnt tell me anything that I didnt know.

phins3454
01-31-2007, 09:18 PM
McShay on ESPN just said that Troy Smith has been downgraded to the 3rd or 4th round by most scouts after failing to impress at the Senior Bowl week. Kenny Irons is now a 2nd round pick and Leon Hall has fallen out of the top ten after scouts realized how slow he is

I wouldnt start saying that Leon hall has dropped out of the top 10 yet, he could surprise people at the combine, and after the combine is when stocks really fall or rise

SwampDawg
01-31-2007, 09:18 PM
Smith is right where he was most of the season, reports said scouts had him 3rd or 4th round pretty much all season. It is all the internet forum nuts that raised him to a first rounder.

ChambersWI
01-31-2007, 09:19 PM
oh and I don't think anybody considered Irons a first round pick to begin with (unless it was preseason and going to the Steelers at 32). Everybody knew Peterson and Lynch were better, and Michael Bush (even on one leg) will go higher, and Tony Hunt might go higher too.

adamprez2003
01-31-2007, 09:23 PM
I wouldnt start saying that Leon hall has dropped out of the top 10 yet, he could surprise people at the combine, and after the combine is when stocks really fall or rise

Its pretty obvious what Hall has to do to move back up and that's run his best 40 time ever. The only knock on him is speed. He's basically a coverage corner or a CB you put on the #2 receiver

Kyndig
01-31-2007, 09:40 PM
can u all explain to me HOW a heisman trophy winner DOESNT get drafted in Top 5??? has that ever happened? i thought Heisman Winners were like the best player.....it amazes me a Heisman Winner would get drafted in the 4th round.

happens all the time. heisman is about the best college player, not the best pro player. Let's see, remember Danny Wurfeil? not sure if I spelled his name right, but he was great as qb of the hurricanes during their champion years, but simply didn't pack the size or arm for the pro game...

Kyndig
01-31-2007, 09:40 PM
Its pretty obvious what Hall has to do to move back up and that's run his best 40 time ever. The only knock on him is speed. He's basically a coverage corner or a CB you put on the #2 receiver

he seems to get torched alot by top college receivers...

ChambersWI
01-31-2007, 09:52 PM
he seems to get torched alot by top college receivers...

again, 2 times all year he got torched.

sports24/7
01-31-2007, 09:55 PM
Kiper seems to agree that Smith is dropping as well. His height is a major concern and Kiper said the National Championship game really exposed just how much of a problem his height can be.

Majpain
01-31-2007, 09:56 PM
Dont know him enough to have an opinion but Ive been saying the same thing about Hall and Irons just sucked this year. Troy Smith didnt impress me that much but dropping to 3rd or 4th is somewhat surprising. He said that he was way too inconsistent with his accuracy during SeniorBowl week and after the poor play against the speedy Gators scouts just soured on him. Add the height issue and lack of accuracy when confronted by speed and you can see why he's dropping

Didnt Smith have a 64% completion rating during the season?

sports24/7
01-31-2007, 09:58 PM
again, 2 times all year he got torched.
I think Hall is a good corner, but you can't teach speed and he doesn't have top end speed. There is no doubt he will get beat deep at times in the NFL by speed WR's. If you are willing to accept that he's going to get beat from time to time and be content with him being a very good corner in all other aspects then he's your guy. It does happen to many good corners.

oldfinfan
01-31-2007, 10:06 PM
Jason White undrafted, Charlie Ward undrafted, Eric Crouch 3rd round, Danny Whuerful 4th round(I think), Gino Torrieta... pretty late I think 7th.

Happens more than you'd think, there's probably more. Truth of the matter is, The Heisman is an award presented to the player with the best statistical season for that year. Troy Smith just doesn't have good measurables to be a first round pick (namely his height).

That is not saying he won't be a good QB though. I compare him to Drew Brees; a guy who also fell because of height. The biggest difference though is Brees pretty much carried Purdue to the Rose Bowl by himself, Smith had a pretty easy road to the National Championship Game (thus I think he's falling, he got fumblitis and was a bit shakey against Michigan at times, and he disappeared against Florida).

Oh yeah, and McShay is probably the worst when it comes to analyzing IMO (Not saying he's wrong about Hall either, as a Michigan fan I've admitted that Revis could jump him).

But everything the consesus among most scouts that were at the senior bowl were that Hall was solid but not spectacular (so that might cause him to fall), Smith was a bit shakey but was the best QB down there, and Irons supposedly looked ok.

Again, I personally do not like McShay and I rank him way behind Mayock and Kiper, and I also like Scott Wright and DJ Boyer (2 online scouts, Wright owns NFLDraftCountdown) alot more.

It isn't necessarily the best "statistical" player...there are many factors, statistics being one of them. press coverage during the year, team he plays for (and its success), and, this player gets VOTED as the best player in the nation...the process is very subjective.

Bottom line, as the examples you have cited prove. the best college player in the nation does not equate to a top-5 pick in the draft.

However, it isn't all as bad as it appears...for every Torreta and White, there are the OJ's, the Marcus Allen's, the Mike Garrett's. All top notch professionals.

SR 7
01-31-2007, 10:10 PM
Jason White undrafted, Charlie Ward undrafted, Eric Crouch 3rd round, Danny Whuerful 4th round(I think), Gino Torrieta... pretty late I think 7th.

Happens more than you'd think, there's probably more. Truth of the matter is, The Heisman is an award presented to the player with the best statistical season for that year. Troy Smith just doesn't have good measurables to be a first round pick (namely his height).

That is not saying he won't be a good QB though. I compare him to Drew Brees; a guy who also fell because of height. The biggest difference though is Brees pretty much carried Purdue to the Rose Bowl by himself, Smith had a pretty easy road to the National Championship Game (thus I think he's falling, he got fumblitis and was a bit shakey against Michigan at times, and he disappeared against Florida).

Oh yeah, and McShay is probably the worst when it comes to analyzing IMO (Not saying he's wrong about Hall either, as a Michigan fan I've admitted that Revis could jump him).

But everything the consesus among most scouts that were at the senior bowl were that Hall was solid but not spectacular (so that might cause him to fall), Smith was a bit shakey but was the best QB down there, and Irons supposedly looked ok.

Again, I personally do not like McShay and I rank him way behind Mayock and Kiper, and I also like Scott Wright and DJ Boyer (2 online scouts, Wright owns NFLDraftCountdown) alot more.

eric couch? the QB that went to cleveland? wans't he a top 3 pick?

utahphinsfan
01-31-2007, 10:30 PM
4th round could have some interesting QB prospects. Kolb/Smith/Edwards

Don't forget Jeff Rowe (NV-Reno) who had a better bowl game and All-star appearance than Troy Smith.

adamprez2003
01-31-2007, 10:36 PM
Didnt Smith have a 64% completion rating during the season?

he had a good season no doubt but its obvious there are some serious doubts whether he can do that against a step up in competition

adamprez2003
01-31-2007, 10:37 PM
Don't forget Jeff Rowe (NV-Reno) who had a better bowl game and All-star appearance than Troy Smith.
could be an interesting 2nd day for QBs

Stitches
01-31-2007, 10:48 PM
eric couch? the QB that went to cleveland? wans't he a top 3 pick?

Tim Couch was drafted #1 by the Browns. ERIC CROUCH won the Heisman at Nebraska, then was drafted to play safety by the Rams in the 3rd round. Suprisinlgy that never panned out, :rolleyes2.

Stitches
01-31-2007, 10:49 PM
It isn't necessarily the best "statistical" player...there are many factors, statistics being one of them. press coverage during the year, team he plays for (and its success), and, this player gets VOTED as the best player in the nation...the process is very subjective.

Bottom line, as the examples you have cited prove. the best college player in the nation does not equate to a top-5 pick in the draft.

However, it isn't all as bad as it appears...for every Torreta and White, there are the OJ's, the Marcus Allen's, the Mike Garrett's. All top notch professionals.

:yeahthat:

If it was best statistical player, Brennan would have won it by a landslide, but he wasn't even invited to the awards show.

Stitches
01-31-2007, 10:52 PM
And kenny Irons being available in the second is a great reason as to why I don't see the Browns drafting Peterson at either #3 or #4.

Patbchln
01-31-2007, 10:54 PM
IMO troy smith will be another flutie without a really great memorable moment ir I dont see hindiung a drop kick either

phins3454
01-31-2007, 10:56 PM
Troy Smith and Kenny Irons stock is dropping? really!?





dang I could have told you that

adamprez2003
01-31-2007, 10:58 PM
Troy Smith and Kenny Irons stock is dropping? really!?





dang I could have told you that

:lol: Man you need to change your avatar then. Ron Burgundy didnt do sports. You need to get that guy who did the sports in your avatar:lol: great movie. loved the newscaster rumble

phins3454
01-31-2007, 11:01 PM
:lol: Man you need to change your avatar then. Ron Burgundy didnt do sports. You need to get that guy who did the sports in your avatar:lol: great movie. loved the newscaster rumble

:lol: yeah Anchorman is my top favorite movie
That Brick guy is halrious

Majpain
01-31-2007, 11:02 PM
he had a good season no doubt but its obvious there are some serious doubts whether he can do that against a step up in competition

Touche.

CANDolphan
01-31-2007, 11:40 PM
Danny W was a Gator Quarterback.

He was brilliant and ran the Florida offense to perfection in 95/96.. he deserved to win it. He didnt have the arm strength to be an NFL quarterback, otherwise he would have been a hell of a talent.

SR 7
02-01-2007, 12:02 AM
Tim Couch was drafted #1 by the Browns. ERIC CROUCH won the Heisman at Nebraska, then was drafted to play safety by the Rams in the 3rd round. Suprisinlgy that never panned out, :rolleyes2.

o, what yr? and what position in college

twix2500
02-01-2007, 12:05 AM
And kenny Irons being available in the second is a great reason as to why I don't see the Browns drafting Peterson at either #3 or #4.


Peterson vs Irons is no comparison. Peterson is a franchise player, Irons is youman player. IMO the Browns shouldnt pass up Peterson unless they can take one of the top two QBs.

Stitches
02-01-2007, 12:06 AM
o, what yr? and what position in college

Eric Crouch was like 2002 or so and he played QB at Nebraska.

Dolfan4life!
02-01-2007, 08:25 AM
Smith is right where he was most of the season, reports said scouts had him 3rd or 4th round pretty much all season. It is all the internet forum nuts that raised him to a first rounder.
Exactly.

The Confessor
02-01-2007, 08:57 AM
Going into Senior-week, Mel Kiper (Who's draftboard I do put much value in) had smith going anywhere from late second round to mid fourth. After Senior week, he was on Mike and Mike stating that he almost definately will be a second day pick.

Leon Hall would make a nice pick for us at 40, if he goes that far

How about us taking Adrian Peterson at the nine spot?

Motion
02-01-2007, 09:24 AM
:D Hall falling? No way!

Stitches
02-01-2007, 09:28 AM
Peterson at 9? To us? Last time I checked there'd be more valuable players available to us than a RB, that's even considering how good Peterson is.