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NJFINSFAN1
02-01-2007, 09:12 AM
Out with the old and in with the new Thread!



Okay, now I'm going to say, what the heck is going on!
Ruben Sierra :eek: :confused: this week, Aaron Sele last week.

Can we get younger?????

And now it looks like we lost Dave Williams for a while.
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTQmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwNjkwNTImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

PhinKev
02-01-2007, 09:53 AM
We need some pitching, not a 100 year old hitter, sigh.

finswin56
02-01-2007, 10:47 AM
Out with the old and in with the new Thread!



Okay, now I'm going to say, what the heck is going on!
Ruben Sierra :eek: :confused: this week, Aaron Sele last week.

Can we get younger?????

And now it looks like we lost Dave Williams for a while.
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTQmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwNjkwNTImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2
:woot: A new year!!!

That sucks about Williams, although I can't say I was holding my breath waiting for his contributions.
If Glavine wasn't an AARP member, I'd have to seriously consider a 4 man rotation.
How did I miss the Ruben Sierra thing? Hasn't he been trying to break back in the majors for a few years? Is there any way he makes it onto our roster?

NJFINSFAN1
02-01-2007, 11:39 AM
:woot: A new year!!!

That sucks about Williams, although I can't say I was holding my breath waiting for his contributions.
If Glavine wasn't an AARP member, I'd have to seriously consider a 4 man rotation.
How did I miss the Ruben Sierra thing? Hasn't he been trying to break back in the majors for a few years? Is there any way he makes it onto our roster?

If he does, we are in trouble, the outfield is packed with Beltran, Green, Alou, Chavez, Lastings and Thompson (I think that's his name).

phunwin
02-01-2007, 02:58 PM
If he does, we are in trouble, the outfield is packed with Beltran, Green, Alou, Chavez, Lastings and Thompson (I think that's his name).

I assume you're thinking of Ben Johnson?

As for Sierra, he's spring training fodder. Nothing wrong with giving him a look. Who knows, maybe he can help out the AAA team.

ILPhinFan88
02-01-2007, 03:04 PM
Out with the old and in with the new Thread!



Okay, now I'm going to say, what the heck is going on!
Ruben Sierra :eek: :confused: this week, Aaron Sele last week.

Can we get younger?????

And now it looks like we lost Dave Williams for a while.
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTQmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwNjkwNTImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

You just need to get with the real BLUE :D

NJFINSFAN1
02-01-2007, 03:04 PM
I assume you're thinking of Ben Johnson?

As for Sierra, he's spring training fodder. Nothing wrong with giving him a look. Who knows, maybe he can help out the AAA team.

Yes, Johnson, thanks.

I don't know, we seem to spend a lot of time in the scrap heap lately (Ruben, Sele).

I think we will win the East, but I'm more concerned this year then last.

NJFINSFAN1
02-01-2007, 03:06 PM
You just need to get with the real BLUE :D

:lol:

Oh shot, Beltran just hit another HR
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/02/erickson0521-1.jpg

finswin56
02-01-2007, 03:52 PM
I assume you're thinking of Ben Johnson?

As for Sierra, he's spring training fodder. Nothing wrong with giving him a look. Who knows, maybe he can help out the AAA team.
Speaking of training camp...
I'll be going to spring training in early March.
My buddy (another big Mets fan) and I are turning 30 within a day of each other. So, that's our big 30th party. Three days at spring training, golfing in the morning, going to games in the afternoon, and getting drunk and playing poker at night.

Hopefully I'll get some better (at least closer) pics that I had last year.

phunwin
02-01-2007, 03:56 PM
Speaking of training camp...
I'll be going to spring training in early March.
My buddy (another big Mets fan) and I are turning 30 within a day of each other. So, that's our big 30th party. Three days at spring training, golfing in the morning, going to games in the afternoon, and getting drunk and playing poker at night.

Hopefully I'll get some better (at least closer) pics that I had last year.

Good times! Enjoy it!

Roman529
02-01-2007, 04:17 PM
Goo luck Mut's fans. :wink:

Alex44
02-01-2007, 04:26 PM
Good luck Mets fans.

P.S when you come to Marlin games (we know you do when the Mets are in town) wear some white and teal. Make us look good. Thanks.

Boik14
02-02-2007, 12:08 AM
:lol:

Oh shot, Beltran just hit another HR
http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/erickson0521.jpgoh snap, thats another rd 1 sweep for the wright (not a typo) team :)

Its nice!

Boik14
02-02-2007, 12:09 AM
Good luck Mets fans.

P.S when you come to Marlin games (we know you do when the Mets are in town) wear some white and teal. Make us look good. Thanks.If we wear teal we can just blend in with the seats to make it appear as though no one is in the stands.....

Ill leave it to anyone else to finish the second part of that statement :)

Boik14
02-02-2007, 12:12 AM
The sierra signing was a courtesy signing to willie imo. I think eventually sierra may be one of willie's bench coaches because they spent alot of time together in pinstripes. Plus, sierra has matured from the clubhouse distraction he used to be so really it cant hurt but it could be a power bat off the bench if he rediscovers his swing. Low risk, moderate reward.

phunwin
02-02-2007, 09:13 AM
oh snap, thats another rd 1 sweep for the wright (not a typo) team :)

Its nice!

I just realized something: if you swapped that Knicks sig for a Pistons one, and dumped the Gamecocks for U of Michigan, we'd have all the same favorite teams! :lol:

Boik14
02-02-2007, 01:58 PM
I just realized something: if you swapped that Knicks sig for a Pistons one, and dumped the Gamecocks for U of Michigan, we'd have all the same favorite teams! :lol: Great minds think alike.

But I hate the Pistons, They gave us Isiah on purpose. The only use he has is as talent evaluator for drafting and when he played.

And I cant dump Carolina cause theyre my alma matte. Go Gamecocks! :)

Sethdaddy8
02-03-2007, 02:02 AM
Lets go Metsgos

Boik14
02-08-2007, 01:36 AM
Couldnt let this thread drop too far.

I got my 7 game ticket pack today....ill probably get individual tix for at least a handful more games (probably 7-10 more).

Came across some interesting reading material for Mets and Yanks fans: Fernando Martinez vs Jose Tabata - http://www.minorleagueball.com/

The article will give some insight as to how each player projects at the MLB level, strengths and weaknesses.

NJFINSFAN1
02-08-2007, 09:09 AM
Couldnt let this thread drop too far.

I got my 7 game ticket pack today....ill probably get individual tix for at least a handful more games (probably 7-10 more).

Came across some interesting reading material for Mets and Yanks fans: Fernando Martinez vs Jose Tabata - http://www.minorleagueball.com/

The article will give some insight as to how each player projects at the MLB level, strengths and weaknesses.

Very good read, thanks

MikeO
02-08-2007, 12:00 PM
Mets the early favorites to land Santana when he leaves Minny.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/16648363.htm

I still think Minny will trade him and Santana won't hit the open market. Minny MUST get something in return for a guy of his value.

NJFINSFAN1
02-08-2007, 01:59 PM
I just got my Dolphin Digest in the mail, and I look at the front page and say, what is Steve Phillips doing on the cover????

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/02/395603-1.jpg

phunwin
02-08-2007, 02:27 PM
Mets the early favorites to land Santana when he leaves Minny.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/16648363.htm

I still think Minny will trade him and Santana won't hit the open market. Minny MUST get something in return for a guy of his value.

I'd like to think that's part of why the Mets largely sat out this ridiculous free agent market. But it's *WAY* too soon to proclaim anyone the favorite to land a guy who's not a free agent for another two years.

MikeO
02-08-2007, 02:36 PM
I'd like to think that's part of why the Mets largely sat out this ridiculous free agent market. But it's *WAY* too soon to proclaim anyone the favorite to land a guy who's not a free agent for another two years.

He will never hit the free agent market. The day after Zito signed with SF, Minny had an organizational meeting and it was decided they will trade Santana before he hits the market just to get something in return for him. That was reported everywhere, ESPN, CNNSI, Newsday, NY Post...etc

The key in trading for him is being willing to pay him $20 mill year!!!!!!!!!!!! How many teams will pay a pitcher that and still part with prospects.

But Santana will be traded out of Minny if not by July (depending on the standings) then next offseason most likely!!

Boik14
02-09-2007, 12:42 AM
Mets the early favorites to land Santana when he leaves Minny.

http://www.twincities.com/mld/pioneerpress/16648363.htm

I still think Minny will trade him and Santana won't hit the open market. Minny MUST get something in return for a guy of his value. *Drool @ Johan* :lol:

Boik14
02-09-2007, 12:52 AM
I think if it came down to getting Johan id offer minny one of two packages:
Package A: Milledge, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey
Package B: Pelfrey, Carlos Gomez, Mulvey

Milledge and Pelfrey are obvious centerpieces to any deal with Santana. Both have high end ceilings but given our need for immediate OF help, Im more inclined to give the package with pelfrey. Gomez projects out to be a poor mans Beltran (figure 270-25hr-85runs-85rbi-20 sb) during his best years. Mulvey projects to a strong #4/ok #3.

I would not however give both Milledge and Pelfrey. After years of farm futility, we're finally churning out a high level prospect or two every year or two. And the guys we're bringing up seem to be high on everyones list just as Wright and reyes were. Both Milledge, Pelfrey, Humber and Martinez fall into that elite class. But since we dont have a lot of depth on the farm after our top guys it gets thin quick. With limited teams they can deal with giving an A prospect, a solid B prospect, and C prospect should be more then enough. If its not oh well. I dont believe we should put our organization's hopes on one arm even if it is Johan.

In Omar I trust. :)

AirMarino83
02-09-2007, 12:54 AM
Speaking of training camp...
I'll be going to spring training in early March.
My buddy (another big Mets fan) and I are turning 30 within a day of each other. So, that's our big 30th party. Three days at spring training, golfing in the morning, going to games in the afternoon, and getting drunk and playing poker at night.

Hopefully I'll get some better (at least closer) pics that I had last year.

lucky guy...
i get to go to a few cactus league games a year, but they dont even interest me much... i always hold out hope that one year theyll move their spring training facilities down here (i know, i know... selfish thought).

oh and about johan? yeah, well just keep dreaming.

god, im pumped for the season to start!

NJFINSFAN1
02-09-2007, 09:10 AM
I could have sworn when my alarm radio went off this morning they said we were going to sign Chan Ho Park????????:eek:

What's going on here???

phunwin
02-09-2007, 12:56 PM
I think if it came down to getting Johan id offer minny one of two packages:
Package A: Milledge, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey
Package B: Pelfrey, Carlos Gomez, Mulvey

Milledge and Pelfrey are obvious centerpieces to any deal with Santana. Both have high end ceilings but given our need for immediate OF help, Im more inclined to give the package with pelfrey. Gomez projects out to be a poor mans Beltran (figure 270-25hr-85runs-85rbi-20 sb) during his best years. Mulvey projects to a strong #4/ok #3.

I would not however give both Milledge and Pelfrey. After years of farm futility, we're finally churning out a high level prospect or two every year or two. And the guys we're bringing up seem to be high on everyones list just as Wright and reyes were. Both Milledge, Pelfrey, Humber and Martinez fall into that elite class. But since we dont have a lot of depth on the farm after our top guys it gets thin quick. With limited teams they can deal with giving an A prospect, a solid B prospect, and C prospect should be more then enough. If its not oh well. I dont believe we should put our organization's hopes on one arm even if it is Johan.

In Omar I trust. :)

I suspect the Twins would demand both Milledge (or even Fernando Martinez, whose star appears to have eclipsed Milledge's) and Pelfrey as part of any deal. I mean, they'd only be giving up the best pitcher in baseball in the prime of his career. Even with a limited market of teams that could realistically trade for him and then sign him after, plenty of contenders would happily surrender top prospects to rent him for half a season (or whatever) and let the chips fall where they may. Remember, getting a pair of #1 picks for losing a guy isn't bad compensation.

phunwin
02-09-2007, 12:58 PM
I could have sworn when my alarm radio went off this morning they said we were going to sign Chan Ho Park????????:eek:

What's going on here???

Yup, we're getting the Ho.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/496124p-418066c.html

Roman529
02-09-2007, 03:25 PM
Out with the old and in with the new Thread!



Okay, now I'm going to say, what the heck is going on!
Ruben Sierra :eek: :confused: this week, Aaron Sele last week.

Can we get younger?????

And now it looks like we lost Dave Williams for a while.
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTQmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwNjkwNTImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Yep all that inexperience is gonna come back to bite you. But the pitching is old, so it balances things out. Go Phils. :wink:

NJFINSFAN1
02-09-2007, 03:28 PM
Yep all that inexperience is gonna come back to bite you. But the pitching is old, so it balances things out. Go Phils. :wink:


Don't make me Spam you also!:tantrum:

AirMarino83
02-09-2007, 03:59 PM
chan ho, a pretty good 4-5 guy in the rotation... sometimes has control problems, and sometimes gives up the long ball... not a good combination, but he also has flashes of 6 solid innings. i think i dont mind him so much for a 4-5 starter.

NJFINSFAN1
02-09-2007, 04:05 PM
chan ho, a pretty good 4-5 guy in the rotation... sometimes has control problems, and sometimes gives up the long ball... not a good combination, but he also has flashes of 6 solid innings. i think i dont mind him so much for a 4-5 starter.

I would rather throw Humber or Pelfrey then Park.

Roman529
02-09-2007, 04:10 PM
Don't make me Spam you also!:tantrum:

Wharf gave me a can of ham. :sidelol:

Boik14
02-09-2007, 09:44 PM
I suspect the Twins would demand both Milledge (or even Fernando Martinez, whose star appears to have eclipsed Milledge's) and Pelfrey as part of any deal. I mean, they'd only be giving up the best pitcher in baseball in the prime of his career. Even with a limited market of teams that could realistically trade for him and then sign him after, plenty of contenders would happily surrender top prospects to rent him for half a season (or whatever) and let the chips fall where they may. Remember, getting a pair of #1 picks for losing a guy isn't bad compensation. I absolutely would not do it. pelfrey alone has the ability to turn into a high ceiling pitcher. There's no way I could legitimize giving up two high tier prospects and handicapping my ability to manuver for any player. The goal of a GM isnt so shortsighted as to only see the current year.

This is exactly how the SF Giants got taken by Minny on the Nathan-Pierzynski deal. The Giants gave Liriano with Nathan and one other pkayer, forget who, that turned in to a decent player for minny.

MikeO
02-10-2007, 01:26 AM
I suspect the Twins would demand both Milledge (or even Fernando Martinez, whose star appears to have eclipsed Milledge's) and Pelfrey as part of any deal. I mean, they'd only be giving up the best pitcher in baseball in the prime of his career. Even with a limited market of teams that could realistically trade for him and then sign him after, plenty of contenders would happily surrender top prospects to rent him for half a season (or whatever) and let the chips fall where they may. Remember, getting a pair of #1 picks for losing a guy isn't bad compensation.

What the Twins want will determine on when they move him. If they are out of the race this July, then they could trade him then and get the mother-load in return.

If they wait till the offseason then their asking price drops a little.

If they wait till next July, then their asking price is almost nothing as they lose all leverage!!!

Ray Finkle
02-10-2007, 01:35 AM
What the Twins want will determine on when they move him. If they are out of the race this July, then they could trade him then and get the mother-load in return.

If they wait till the offseason then their asking price drops a little.

If they wait till next July, then their asking price is almost nothing as they lose all leverage!!!

The Twins won't lose leverage if they wait until July 2008 to trade him. A team that needs a star pitcher or an impact player to get into the playoffs would still trade for him with hopes to try and sign him in the offseason. The Astros traded Freddy Garcia, John Halama and Carlos Guillen for Randy Johnson for 3 months, two of those guys turned into pretty good MLB players. It's happened before, sure maybe the asking price would have been higher if they traded him in January but still the Twins have leverage because there will be playoff teams fighting to land him and the Twins will play those teams off of each other to land a nice batch of players.

MikeO
02-10-2007, 01:52 AM
The Twins won't lose leverage if they wait until July 2008 to trade him. A team that needs a star pitcher or an impact player to get into the playoffs would still trade for him with hopes to try and sign him in the offseason. The Astros traded Freddy Garcia, John Halama and Carlos Guillen for Randy Johnson for 3 months, two of those guys turned into pretty good MLB players. It's happened before, sure maybe the asking price would have been higher if they traded him in January but still the Twins have leverage because there will be playoff teams fighting to land him and the Twins will play those teams off of each other to land a nice batch of players.

1) No team will trade for him unless they can sign and keep him. That brings the number of teams who can trade to him down to about 5 or 6!! So that weakens the Twins leverage right there!! HE will get $20+ mill a year. That isn't up for debate. Not many teams can pay that. And not all of the ones that can will want too!!!

2) YES, the Twins will lose leverage. That doesn't mean they hand him away for nothing. But they also can't hold onto him and let him walk and get nothing. (only the Nationals with Alphonso Soriano do stupid things like that). The thing you and everyone needs to realize is the Minnesota front office has already decided that they won't keep him. He's gone. It's a matter of WHEN not if at this point. The fact this has already leaked a year or so ahead of time already costs them leverage. Every major deadline that goes bye costs them more leverage. Like I said, doesn't mean they trade him Bobby Abreu style, but at some point its he's gotta go and we gotta take the best offer now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether the offer is "fair" or not!!

phunwin
02-11-2007, 09:52 PM
1) No team will trade for him unless they can sign and keep him. That brings the number of teams who can trade to him down to about 5 or 6!! So that weakens the Twins leverage right there!! HE will get $20+ mill a year. That isn't up for debate. Not many teams can pay that. And not all of the ones that can will want too!!!

2) YES, the Twins will lose leverage. That doesn't mean they hand him away for nothing. But they also can't hold onto him and let him walk and get nothing. (only the Nationals with Alphonso Soriano do stupid things like that). The thing you and everyone needs to realize is the Minnesota front office has already decided that they won't keep him. He's gone. It's a matter of WHEN not if at this point. The fact this has already leaked a year or so ahead of time already costs them leverage. Every major deadline that goes bye costs them more leverage. Like I said, doesn't mean they trade him Bobby Abreu style, but at some point its he's gotta go and we gotta take the best offer now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whether the offer is "fair" or not!!

A mid-market team, in the thick of a pennant race, trades for Santana, secure in the knowledge that their chances of resigning him are slim. They move a couple A-list prospects in trade, Santana pitches for them for 3 months, and then leaves as a free agent. Have they let him walk "for nothing"?

NO!

They've received the benefits of having Johan Santana for 3 months, which could easily mean 5 or 6 wins over the starter he replaced in that time. That, in turn, could easily mean the difference between a pennant and flying to South Carolina to golf in October. If Santana pitches that team to the World Series, they've received a tremendous benefit.

And when he walks, they get two first round draft picks. If used wisely, they can replace the two A-list prospects they just traded to get Santana.

So, for two blue-chip prospects (and maybe a third B-list prospect), they've received 3 months of Johan Santana, and two more blue-chip prospects. There are worse outcomes to a trade.

The Houston Astros have used this strategy twice now: first with Johnson, and then with Beltran. I think it's safe to say they didn't particularly regret either deal. Johnson pitched them to the playoffs in 1998, and they would have advanced if not for the brilliance of Kevin Brown. In 2004, Beltran put the Astros on his shoulders and had them oh-so-close to their first-ever World Series.

Given how well they've drafted over the last several years, the Twins might just hang onto Santana, try to make a run of their own, and then take their 2 prospects in the draft. Billy Beane has shown a complete willingness to do this, and he's only the best GM in baseball.

MikeO
02-11-2007, 11:48 PM
Billy Beane has shown a complete willingness to do this, and he's only the best GM in baseball.

I will argue that till the day I die. He isn't by far!!!!

I (and many other more knowledgeable minds than me) have little to no respect for a GM who doesn't feel the need to watch games and feels its ok to take a vacation in the middle of the summer near and around the trading deadline. I'm sorry.

MikeO
02-11-2007, 11:51 PM
also this isn't the NFL or NBA, draft picks while nice aren't a way you try and win. You draft a guy and wait which seems like forever for him to finally make an impact.

I'm not buying that notion as a reason for Minny to wait around an hold onto Santana then let him walk, when they can trade him and get actual major league or AAA players who can step in and help them win now!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ray Finkle
02-12-2007, 01:10 AM
A mid-market team, in the thick of a pennant race, trades for Santana, secure in the knowledge that their chances of resigning him are slim. They move a couple A-list prospects in trade, Santana pitches for them for 3 months, and then leaves as a free agent. Have they let him walk "for nothing"?

NO!

They've received the benefits of having Johan Santana for 3 months, which could easily mean 5 or 6 wins over the starter he replaced in that time. That, in turn, could easily mean the difference between a pennant and flying to South Carolina to golf in October. If Santana pitches that team to the World Series, they've received a tremendous benefit.

And when he walks, they get two first round draft picks. If used wisely, they can replace the two A-list prospects they just traded to get Santana.

So, for two blue-chip prospects (and maybe a third B-list prospect), they've received 3 months of Johan Santana, and two more blue-chip prospects. There are worse outcomes to a trade.

The Houston Astros have used this strategy twice now: first with Johnson, and then with Beltran. I think it's safe to say they didn't particularly regret either deal. Johnson pitched them to the playoffs in 1998, and they would have advanced if not for the brilliance of Kevin Brown. In 2004, Beltran put the Astros on his shoulders and had them oh-so-close to their first-ever World Series.

Given how well they've drafted over the last several years, the Twins might just hang onto Santana, try to make a run of their own, and then take their 2 prospects in the draft. Billy Beane has shown a complete willingness to do this, and he's only the best GM in baseball.

Not only everything you stated above but just making the playoffs for a mid-market/level team like for example like for an example Indians, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles, Mariners, Rockies, etc. could really give that franchise a shot in the arm and get interest back into the team and help out the city. When Seattle got into the playoffs in 1995 and got past the Yankees in the first round there was so much fan support that they got a new ball park built. None of the above mentioned teams need a new ball park but just making the playoffs and going deep could help them big time and might be worth giving up prospects.

phunwin
02-12-2007, 09:37 AM
I will argue that till the day I die. He isn't by far!!!!

I (and many other more knowledgeable minds than me) have little to no respect for a GM who doesn't feel the need to watch games and feels its ok to take a vacation in the middle of the summer near and around the trading deadline. I'm sorry.


also this isn't the NFL or NBA, draft picks while nice aren't a way you try and win. You draft a guy and wait which seems like forever for him to finally make an impact.

I'm not buying that notion as a reason for Minny to wait around an hold onto Santana then let him walk, when they can trade him and get actual major league or AAA players who can step in and help them win now!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hang on, I'm going to step outside and slam my head against a brick wall a few times....

OK, I feel better.

You can argue all you like that Beane isn't the best GM in baseball, that's fine. It's a debatable point. What's NOT a debatable point is that he's provided a successful blueprint for small to medium sized market teams to compete with large market teams. Why would it shock you that another small market team (Minnesota), led by a general manager who actually has a brain in his head (Terry Ryan), might think, "I like what Beane's done over there. He's hung onto pending free agents, gotten the most out of them, made playoff runs and then taken draft picks and rebuilt successfully. Maybe I should try that."?

Draft picks aren't a way you try to win? Really? Why is it that every team's top 10 prospect list invariably includes a whole bunch of recent first and second round picks?

If you want immediate draft picks who can make an impact in 2 years, rather than 5, it's not hard: pick college players. Plenty of teams have targeted players with significant college experience to ensure that they make an impact sooner than later. The A's, I think, are one of those. What is the difference between picking a guy with 4 years college experience, and having a prospect who's been successful at AA? Not too much.

The value of draft picks is CONSTANTLY underestimated by people who think only about the very short-term outlook. A team like the Twins absolutely has to take the long-term approach. They can't afford to field a $100 million roster every year...or any year, for that matter. If you're thinking long-term, you know that some years, you're not going to have the resources to make a big run, so you maximize it while you can. If the Twins are sitting in first place in the AL Central on July 25, 2008 (6 days before the trade deadline), fighting the Yanks and Red Sox for best record in the AL and a solid 5 games ahead of the White Sox and Indians in the AL Central, I absolutely refuse to believe they're going to say "well, we gotta move Santana. Yes, it means we're going to give up a shot at the World Series, but we've got to get prospects while we can." That's basically what you're postulating.

More likely, they'll say, "hey, let's make a run at the Series, and after the season, we take a couple top-notch college pitchers in the draft and try to make a run in 2011." If they were to trade Santana at the deadline for a couple top AAA or AA prospects, how would their timetable be any different?

phunwin
02-12-2007, 09:46 AM
Not only everything you stated above but just making the playoffs for a mid-market/level team like for example like for an example Indians, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles, Mariners, Rockies, etc. could really give that franchise a shot in the arm and get interest back into the team and help out the city. When Seattle got into the playoffs in 1995 and got past the Yankees in the first round there was so much fan support that they got a new ball park built. None of the above mentioned teams need a new ball park but just making the playoffs and going deep could help them big time and might be worth giving up prospects.

Very true. And the Twins are looking to get a new ballpark built!

Ray Finkle
02-12-2007, 10:23 AM
Drafting players have become very important recently and teams are really starting to put money into it and take it seriously. That's part of the reason why teams wait to see if Player A was offered artibration so they know whether or not they have to give up a draft pick (yes that process screws players such as Todd Walker or Tony Graffinino who are looking for long term deals but can't get them because no team wants to give up a 1st round pick for them).

The Red Sox spend over 8 million last year on scouting and signing players and because of their efforts many experts said they drafted the best talent. In fact drafting players has gotten so big in baseball recently that ESPN is going to put the first two rounds on TV, which is a first. This is a huge example on how the focus is now on building the farm system up.

Baseball is different than football and basketball where it takes awhile for prospects to reach the majors yes no question. However there are rare exceptions like Huston Street, Jared Weaver, Stephen Drew, etc who only spend a year or less in the minors before getting called up and are effective.

phunwin
02-12-2007, 11:12 AM
Drafting players have become very important recently and teams are really starting to put money into it and take it seriously. That's part of the reason why teams wait to see if Player A was offered artibration so they know whether or not they have to give up a draft pick (yes that process screws players such as Todd Walker or Tony Graffinino who are looking for long term deals but can't get them because no team wants to give up a 1st round pick for them).

The Red Sox spend over 8 million last year on scouting and signing players and because of their efforts many experts said they drafted the best talent. In fact drafting players has gotten so big in baseball recently that ESPN is going to put the first two rounds on TV, which is a first. This is a huge example on how the focus is now on building the farm system up.

Baseball is different than football and basketball where it takes awhile for prospects to reach the majors yes no question. However there are rare exceptions like Huston Street, Jared Weaver, Stephen Drew, etc who only spend a year or less in the minors before getting called up and are effective.

The Mets have drafted extremely well over the last three to four years, and have transformed their farm system from one of the worst to one of the best as a result. The Yankees are in that camp as well. I think it's only recently that teams are starting to realize how important the draft is, and how getting a first round pick for losing a free agent isn't the worst thing in the world. Beane, as I said, was ahead of the curve here.

MikeO
02-12-2007, 12:51 PM
Nobody wins the world series because of the draft. They win it because of money.

The Red Sox didn't draft Ortiz, Schilling, Manny, Damon, Pedro....etc when they won theirs. The Cardinals didn't draft Edmunds, Weaver, Rolen, Wilson, Carpenter...etc. The White Sox didn't draft Garcia, Contrares, Posednick, Korenko, Everett..etc

Money wins. Not draft picks. And to think Minnesota will let Santana walk for a couple of draft picks instead of trading him and getting major league ready talent is the most idiotic notion out there!!

phunwin
02-12-2007, 04:23 PM
Nobody wins the world series because of the draft. They win it because of money.

The Red Sox didn't draft Ortiz, Schilling, Manny, Damon, Pedro....etc when they won theirs. The Cardinals didn't draft Edmunds, Weaver, Rolen, Wilson, Carpenter...etc. The White Sox didn't draft Garcia, Contrares, Posednick, Korenko, Everett..etc

The 2002 Angels were almost completely homegrown, as were the 2003 Marlins. And the Cardinals drafted Pujols, who was probably more important to their success than any three of those guys you mentioned combined.

There are multiple ways to build a winning team, but drafting wisely is by far the best way to build a strong farm system. And if you have a strong farm system, you can trade for immediate help...like the 2004 Red Sox and 2005 White Sox did. (The 2006 Cardinals actually relied on Pujols, Carpenter and a ton of bargain free agents peaking at the right time, so good for them.)


Money wins. Not draft picks. And to think Minnesota will let Santana walk for a couple of draft picks instead of trading him and getting major league ready talent is the most idiotic notion out there!!

Every single time someone presents a well-reasoned argument, you pick a small piece of it to argue against (ignoring the vast majority of the rest), dismiss it with a couple isolated examples, call their theory idiotic, and leave it at that. I'm tired of this ****.

GreenMonster
02-12-2007, 04:34 PM
Nobody wins the world series because of the draft. They win it because of money.

96'-00' Yankees

Jeter, Mariano, Pettite, Willams, Posada. Mendoza. Ya I am sure it would have been easier to just buy those guys in free agency every year or two.

Ray Finkle
02-12-2007, 06:42 PM
96'-00' Yankees

Jeter, Mariano, Pettite, Willams, Posada. Mendoza. Ya I am sure it would have been easier to just buy those guys in free agency every year or two.

It's actually funny that the Yankees dynasty died once the team started to get the big name free agents like Giambi, Mussina, Sheffield, etc. Although that's not the only reason either.

In fact in the mid to late 80s and early 90s the Yankees were pretty bad so they basically built their franchise back up from their farm system drafting the above mentioned guys because spending big money for the free agents weren't working out.

Ray Finkle
02-12-2007, 06:45 PM
The 2002 Angels were almost completely homegrown, as were the 2003 Marlins. And the Cardinals drafted Pujols, who was probably more important to their success than any three of those guys you mentioned combined.

There are multiple ways to build a winning team, but drafting wisely is by far the best way to build a strong farm system. And if you have a strong farm system, you can trade for immediate help...like the 2004 Red Sox and 2005 White Sox did. (The 2006 Cardinals actually relied on Pujols, Carpenter and a ton of bargain free agents peaking at the right time, so good for them.)

Exactly right one of the ways the Yankees were able to win all those championships were because they drafted a lot of good prospects and traded them for pieces to help the team win (i.e. Knoblauch, Justice, etc).

If the Red Sox didn't have those pitchers drafted in the minors they would never have gotten Pedro or Schilling.

Also you beat me to naming the Angels and Marlins. In fact the Angels starting line up if I'm not mistaken were all home grown besides Eckstein who was either traded to picked up in the rule 5 draft from Boston. Plus at least 3/5 of their rotation and closer (Percivel) and set up men (Donnelly and K-Rod) were all home grown. I think that's pretty impressive.

Ray Finkle
02-12-2007, 06:47 PM
Nobody wins the world series because of the draft. They win it because of money.

Yes because since the 2000 season the three teams who have had the highest payrolls in the sport (Yankees, Red Sox and Mets) pretty much every year won a total of 1 World Series championship (2004).

NJFINSFAN1
02-12-2007, 07:00 PM
Nobody wins the world series because of the draft. They win it because of money.

The Red Sox didn't draft Ortiz, Schilling, Manny, Damon, Pedro....etc when they won theirs. The Cardinals didn't draft Edmunds, Weaver, Rolen, Wilson, Carpenter...etc. The White Sox didn't draft Garcia, Contrares, Posednick, Korenko, Everett..etc

Money wins. Not draft picks. And to think Minnesota will let Santana walk for a couple of draft picks instead of trading him and getting major league ready talent is the most idiotic notion out there!!


Come on, you know better then that!!!

Boik14
02-13-2007, 07:49 PM
Yup, we're getting the Ho.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/496124p-418066c.html Im going to start the official Chan Ho facts list:

The Official Chan Ho Park FACTS!

1. "Chan Ho Park" is Korean for "Son of Kaz"

2. Chan Ho Park once side kicked Tim Belcher so hard he farted.

3. A true ambassador of the game, Chan Ho Park offered Cal Ripken an All-Star Game home run -- in return for an iron man strength beginning in 2007... hence his willingness to take only 600 K guaranteed and 2.4 mil in performance bonuses.

4. Chan Ho Park taught Bruce Lee a watered down version of the ultimate martial arts.

5. Chuck Norris gained his rep as a bad *** after practicing the same martial arts: That of Chan Ho.

6. The Korea war was over Chan Ho's posting rights.

7. Deaf people listen to Chan Ho Park.

8. Chan Ho Park tells Bob Barker when the price is right.

9. Anna Nicole Smith had a heart attack after having relations Chan Ho Park.

10.Chan Ho Park beat Street Fighter on Level 9.

11.Chan Ho Park started the fire.

12.The second spitter from the Seinfeld episode was Chan Ho Park.

13.Chan Ho Park found Saddam Hussein.

14.Hitler killed himself because he heard Chan Ho Park was coming for him.

15.Chan Ho Park doesn't need a changeup because you can't hit his fastball.

16.Chan Ho Park's bobble head doll comes in Drop Kick and Intestinal Bleeding editions.

17.Chan Ho Park killed the deputy

18.If you look in the mirror and say Krap Oh Nahc 3 times, Chan Ho Park will give up 2 grand slams in an inning

19.The Mets are dropping the naming rights for their new stadium and calling it Chan Ho Park

20.Chan Ho Park invented Kim Chi

21.Chan Ho Park has the mightiest 3 inches in all of Korea...

22.Chan Ho Park is greater than Kaz Matsui

23.When Chan Ho Park snaps his fingers, birdpoop is dropped on the head of Larry Jones

24.Chan HO Park can REALLY tell when a chic is faking it.

25.Chan Ho Park plays 9 positions at once

26.Endy didnt make the catch. It was Chan Ho Park in his uniform

27.Chan Ho Park can cure cancer, and diabetes

28.Chan Ho Park is the number 1 ranked fantasy player

29.Chan Ho Park is the reason why this board was created

30.Chan Ho Park inadvertantly inspired a holy book when he misspelled "Korean"

Boik14
02-13-2007, 07:51 PM
The Mets have drafted extremely well over the last three to four years, and have transformed their farm system from one of the worst to one of the best as a result. The Yankees are in that camp as well. I think it's only recently that teams are starting to realize how important the draft is, and how getting a first round pick for losing a free agent isn't the worst thing in the world. Beane, as I said, was ahead of the curve here. To further that point, the mets were ranked 28th 2 years ago by Baseball America for the quality of their prospects and depth. they are now up to 14th. Which is all the more reason I wouldnt give 3-4 top prospects for any player even if it was Johan Santana like we were originally talking about.

phunwin
02-14-2007, 12:46 PM
31. Chan Ho Park fought Jack Bauer to a draw in a 3-hour steel cage death match.

32. Chan Ho Park is Korean for "Cy Young".

33. Chan Ho Park has a beer named after him in Saudi Arabia.

34. Chan Ho Park was the love child of Sandy Koufax and Marilyn Monroe.

35. Chan Ho Park can make your head explode by staring at it.

36. Chan Ho Park once struck out three batters with one pitch.

37. Chan Ho Park will assassinate Kim Jong Il tomorrow...or run an ultra-marathon. He hasn't decided yet.

38. Jessica Simpson left Nick Lachey for Chan Ho Park.

39. Chan Ho Park is wanted in 68 countries, but not Canada, Peru or Panama.

40. Chan Ho Park can belch the entire alphabet at once.

41. Chan Ho Park defies the laws of physics.

42. Chan Ho Park got this party started.

43. Chan Ho Park holds a Nobel Peace Prize for "wickedest fastball".

44. At around 3 pm, when you're getting tired at work, Chan Ho Park sneaks in and messes with your stuff.

45. Chan Ho Park has a Coke and a smile.

Ray Finkle
02-14-2007, 12:55 PM
31. Chan Ho Park fought Jack Bauer to a draw in a 3-hour steel cage death match.

Sorry but that is the most insane statement I have ever read. EVER read. There's no such thing as a draw with Jack Bauer, it's either you die or you die.

NJFINSFAN1
02-14-2007, 01:01 PM
Sorry but that is the most insane statement I have ever read. EVER read. There's no such thing as a draw with Jack Bauer, it's either you die or you die.


:lol:

phunwin
02-14-2007, 01:09 PM
Sorry but that is the most insane statement I have ever read. EVER read. There's no such thing as a draw with Jack Bauer, it's either you die or you die.

:lol:

But, but...he's Chan Ho Park. :ninja:

And hey, Jack's died before. Then he came back to life. Granted, he didn't wait three days and move a big-*** stone all by himself for full dramatic effect or anything, but still, he has died.

Ray Finkle
02-14-2007, 01:17 PM
:lol:

But, but...he's Chan Ho Park. :ninja:

And hey, Jack's died before. Then he came back to life. Granted, he didn't wait three days and move a big-*** stone all by himself for full dramatic effect or anything, but still, he has died.

Good point, however killing Jack Bauer just makes him angry.

The main reason why Jack didn't wait three days is because in his own words, "THERE'S NO TIME!"

Ok back to baseball, but I will admit those Chan Ho Park fact list is pretty funny. Props for using the ninja guy too. :lol:

Boik14
02-14-2007, 02:07 PM
31. Chan Ho Park fought Jack Bauer to a draw in a 3-hour steel cage death match.

32. Chan Ho Park is Korean for "Cy Young".

33. Chan Ho Park has a beer named after him in Saudi Arabia.

34. Chan Ho Park was the love child of Sandy Koufax and Marilyn Monroe.

35. Chan Ho Park can make your head explode by staring at it.

36. Chan Ho Park once struck out three batters with one pitch.

37. Chan Ho Park will assassinate Kim Jong Il tomorrow...or run an ultra-marathon. He hasn't decided yet.

38. Jessica Simpson left Nick Lachey for Chan Ho Park.

39. Chan Ho Park is wanted in 68 countries, but not Canada, Peru or Panama.

40. Chan Ho Park can belch the entire alphabet at once.

41. Chan Ho Park defies the laws of physics.

42. Chan Ho Park got this party started.

43. Chan Ho Park holds a Nobel Peace Prize for "wickedest fastball".

44. At around 3 pm, when you're getting tired at work, Chan Ho Park sneaks in and messes with your stuff.

45. Chan Ho Park has a Coke and a smile.Very nice Phunwin....anyone else want to give it a shot/

We need something to hold us over until the season starts :lol:

GreenMonster
02-14-2007, 04:20 PM
I was still waiting for more into way draft picks don't help you win the World Series.. This was news to me..

NJFINSFAN1
02-14-2007, 04:24 PM
I was still waiting for more into way draft picks don't help you win the World Series.. This was news to me..

yeah, how many minor leaguers did the Yankees draft and trade away to help them win????

That's just a silly argument.

Draft picks a very important to a team.

MikeO
02-14-2007, 05:16 PM
yeah, how many minor leaguers did the Yankees draft and trade away to help them win????

That's just a silly argument.

Draft picks a very important to a team.


It really isn't. If drafting is so important how come the Oakland A's never win anything??? They draft well.

The teams that win spend money!!! Period!! Sure, they also mix in some guys they drafted, but in MLB you BUY players that help you win!!!!! Without money you can't win. You can draft great till the cows come home, it means nothing if you don't have money!!!!!!

We can argue this in circles all day, I was willing to let it go. I ain't changing anyones mind here. And you aren't changing mine. But if you wanna keep going on this, then let's go!!!!

Boik14
02-14-2007, 08:18 PM
I digress from the argument but imo a farm system is very important but personally I prefer talent heavy over depth. Theres only so many spots on a MLB roster so depth does you more good in trading but you have to give a few players to do anything significant. However, I like a talent heavy top group that can be built around by FA...just like the NYY did and the Mets are doing.

Look at the similarities:
NYY early 90's: Posada, Jeter, Bernie, Gerald Williams, Petitte, Mo, Roberto Kelly...
NYM now: Wright, Reyes, Pelfrey, Humber, Heilman, Milledge....granted there are some "maybe's" in there but still the premise is the same

Boik14
02-14-2007, 08:30 PM
Wouldnt let me copy/paste anything but if you have access to scout its a great read on Carlos Gomez. ETA is 2008 and they compare his work ethic to willie mays. He should project out just short of Carlos Beltran with the type of power and speed he has.

http://mets.scout.com/2/618866.html

Boik14
02-15-2007, 04:39 PM
I just got my mets email (free service, sign up on the mets site if you want it)

Dear Mets Fans:

Our quest for a championship begins this week as pitchers and catchers report to Spring Training. All of us at the Mets are determined to build upon last year's success - an MLB-best 97 wins and the National League East title.

We like our blend of young talent, veterans, power, speed, and athleticism as we head into what will be a competitive camp. Carlos Delgado, David Wright, Jose Reyes, and Paul Lo Duca anchor our star-studded infield with Carlos Beltran, Shawn Green, and Moises Alou in the outfield. We think that these guys and those coming off the bench playing as a team combine for one of the most potent, dynamic, and exciting lineups in baseball.

We feel we have more quality arms and depth on our staff than we have had in many, many years going into Spring Training. Proven winners Tom Glavine and "El Duque" Orlando Hernandez lead the starters. After showing a lot during the playoffs last year, we have good reason to believe that John Maine and Oliver Perez can continue to contribute for us this year. We feel that homegrown Mike Pelfrey and Philip Humber are legitimate big league prospects who will compete for a spot with Chan Ho Park, Jorge Sosa, Aaron Sele, Alay Soler, and Jason Vargas. The addition of Ambiorix Burgos and Scott Schoeneweis strengthens our N.L.- leading bullpen. We expect even more quality performances from Aaron Heilman, Pedro Feliciano, and Duaner Sanchez to set up closer Billy Wagner.

Manager Willie Randolph's leadership has created the most unique clubhouse and team environment in all of baseball. We expect the team to continue to thrive under his guidance.

Our entire organization is excited about the upcoming season. The abrupt conclusion to last season makes us even more driven in our goal of winning a World Championship for the greatest fans in sports. We thank you for your loyal support and look forward to seeing you back at Shea for more thrills, fun, and celebrations.

Best,

Omar Minaya
Executive VP of Baseball Operations & General Manager
New York Mets

Boik14
02-15-2007, 04:40 PM
Mets claimed RHP Marcos Carvajal off waivers from the Devil Rays.
Carvajal is a bigger loss for the Rays than either of the two prospects the team actually traded for Jae-Kuk Ryu. The 22-year-old had a 3.86 ERA and a 69/39 K/BB ratio in 72 1/3 IP for Double-A Montgomery last season and a 2.19 ERA in 37 innings in Venezuela over the winter. While he hasn't made as much progress as hoped since spending 2005 in the majors with the Rockies as a Rule 5 pick, he still could be a fine short reliever in time. The Mets will have him begin the year in Double- or Triple-A.

Metsblog.com basically calls hm a similar pitcher to heilman with a hotter fastball.

Boik14
02-15-2007, 04:42 PM
Dave Lennon of Newsday:

Quote:
"I’ve been vocal that I want to stay here and they know that and the people in New York know that," Lo Duca said. " I’d love to stay here and I’ll leave it at that. This is the last year of my contract and I’m just going to play like it’s any other year.Obviously you don’t want to be talking during the season, but whatever happens, happens."

GM Omar Minaya said today that he intends to sit down with Lo Duca's agent at some point during spring training to talk about an extension, but it seems more likely to happen to later in the season, if at all.


Hopefully something gets done...even though C's can go downhill quickly im all for a series of one year extensions since we have a more then adequate backup in castro

Boik14
02-15-2007, 04:43 PM
Buy or sell Heilman is traded by the deadline because everyone is sick of his complaining?

Hes arbitration eligible next year but he isnt UFA until 2010.

From the Daily News

Quote:
Yes, Aaron Heilman asked again. No, he's not going to get a look as a starting pitcher this spring.
"I haven't given up," Heilman said yesterday, a day after arriving from his home in Chicago. "I'll still do everything I can to pursue that - until I don't feel I can be an effective starter."

"I've got to come in and still do a job and help this team win," said Heilman, who made a team-high 74 relief appearances in '06. "Unfortunately, I can't have a lot of say in what my role is. I can just try to control the things I can - which is my performance when I'm out there. I'll just go out there and have another good year and help the team win."

"It looks like we're going to be pretty solid," Heilman said about the bullpen. "I think it will be similar to what it was last year. It wasn't one guy going out there every day. Everybody was able to take the ball and lean on each other. I think that's a big part of having an effective bullpen."

phunwin
02-15-2007, 04:52 PM
Buy or sell Heilman is traded by the deadline because everyone is sick of his complaining?

Hes arbitration eligible next year but he isnt UFA until 2010.



Sell. I think it's a vicious cycle: if the team needs a starting pitcher, it means the bullpen is probably being overworked, which means they won't trade Heilman. However, if the starters are in good shape, it means they don't need to make a move, which means they won't trade Heilman.

Moreover, on a team that's got a lot of expensive players, a top-notch relief pitcher who works cheap is a good guy to keep around. So I think Heilman stays unless the Mets can include him in a package for a legit #1 or #2 starter.

Boik14
02-15-2007, 05:16 PM
Sell. I think it's a vicious cycle: if the team needs a starting pitcher, it means the bullpen is probably being overworked, which means they won't trade Heilman. However, if the starters are in good shape, it means they don't need to make a move, which means they won't trade Heilman.

Moreover, on a team that's got a lot of expensive players, a top-notch relief pitcher who works cheap is a good guy to keep around. So I think Heilman stays unless the Mets can include him in a package for a legit #1 or #2 starter.For the record I agree, I just want to see what everyone else thinks....

MikeO
02-16-2007, 11:55 AM
Sell. I think it's a vicious cycle: if the team needs a starting pitcher, it means the bullpen is probably being overworked, which means they won't trade Heilman. However, if the starters are in good shape, it means they don't need to make a move, which means they won't trade Heilman.

Moreover, on a team that's got a lot of expensive players, a top-notch relief pitcher who works cheap is a good guy to keep around. So I think Heilman stays unless the Mets can include him in a package for a legit #1 or #2 starter.

Heilman isn't going anywhere unless he brings back a Roy Oswalt type pitcher in a trade. I think the Mets will hold onto him.

Ray Finkle
02-16-2007, 07:03 PM
I read today that Heliman is pissed because he didn't get one of the 12 assigned parking spot at the Mets ST site. I'm starting to get the impressing that this guy is becoming a pain in the butt.

AirMarino83
02-16-2007, 09:06 PM
reguardless of him bein a pain in the butt, i still want him on our staff.

phunwin
02-19-2007, 09:37 PM
Heilman isn't going anywhere unless he brings back a Roy Oswalt type pitcher in a trade. I think the Mets will hold onto him.

I think you're probably right about that.

Boik14
02-19-2007, 11:15 PM
Article on Mets prospect Kevin Mulvey: http://www.nj.com/mets/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-1/117186345176630.xml&coll=1

He'll probably start the year in AA Binghamton and projects to be a good #3 type, ceiling being a good #2.

Boik14
02-19-2007, 11:18 PM
And here's some pieces of one on Milledge from the NY Times...it loks like Lastings was busting his tail this offseason. Thats good news for those of us who arent in the Shawn Green fan club....which is most met fans.

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla., Feb. 19 — Willie Randolph eyed the 20 or so reporters encircling him in the dugout and, with a sigh, prepared for what he considered inevitable.

“Come on, give me the first Milledge negative question,” Randolph said. “Come on, throw it at me. I know you can’t wait.”

Milledge showed up looking great. He had packed on 13 pounds of muscle after lifting weights and giving up red meat, and he said all the right things. The Mets had asked Milledge to play winter ball, but they eventually reached an understanding that it might be better if he rested. He seems committed to work hard and challenge Shawn Green for the right fielder’s job. He resolved to take more responsibility for his actions.

“When you’re young, you don’t know what’s out there,” Milledge said. “You don’t know how to handle certain things. I learned about being a man.”

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 09:18 AM
Sandy Alomar JR???????

Boik14
02-21-2007, 09:45 PM
Some notes from the NY Times blog: http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/tag/mets/

"The most intense 15 minutes of the morning came during live batting practice, when Ambiorix Burgos faced the quartet of Lastings Milledge, Ben Johnson, Damion Easley and Endy Chavez.
In a match-up of the best bat speed vs. the hardest fastball, Milledge led off against Burgos. He broke his bat on a high-90s fastball. “Cheese!” Milledge said.
The next pitch, Milledge got jammed and hit a weak grounder toward second base. Even wearing batting gloves, Milledge needed another minute or so for his hands to recover before stepping back in. No one else put a ball in play against Burgos until Milledge’s next time up, when he roped a liner into left field. On Easley’s second go-through, he hit a weak grounder.
There were times when Burgos signaled that he was throwing a fastball, but still, no one could hit it."


"Philip Humber spent about six weeks with top outfield prospect Carlos Gomez at Class AA Binghamton last season and came away thinking that “aside from Jose Reyes, he’s the best athlete I’ve ever seen.”
“He’d do something every day that would make your jaw drop,” Humber said. “Whether it was an unbelievable throw or stealing a base he had no business stealing. It was incredible.”
After a slow start at Binghamton, Gomez surged with an 18-game hitting streak in July, when he batted .441, to finish the season hitting .281. For the season, He batted .421 with runners in scoring position and finished second in the Eastern League with 41 steals.
The 21-year-old Gomez found another way to impress Humber on Tuesday during the vertical leap portion of the physical exam. Humber’s was a rather respectable 33 inches. Gomez reached 37."

phunwin
02-21-2007, 09:50 PM
And here's some pieces of one on Milledge from the NY Times...it loks like Lastings was busting his tail this offseason. Thats good news for those of us who arent in the Shawn Green fan club....which is most met fans.

PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla., Feb. 19 — Willie Randolph eyed the 20 or so reporters encircling him in the dugout and, with a sigh, prepared for what he considered inevitable.

“Come on, give me the first Milledge negative question,” Randolph said. “Come on, throw it at me. I know you can’t wait.”

Milledge showed up looking great. He had packed on 13 pounds of muscle after lifting weights and giving up red meat, and he said all the right things. The Mets had asked Milledge to play winter ball, but they eventually reached an understanding that it might be better if he rested. He seems committed to work hard and challenge Shawn Green for the right fielder’s job. He resolved to take more responsibility for his actions.

“When you’re young, you don’t know what’s out there,” Milledge said. “You don’t know how to handle certain things. I learned about being a man.”

Given Willie's love for veterans, Green will get every chance to win that job. But man, I really hope Milledge is ready to take it from him. Green is so slow that he's practically growing roots in right field. With Green in RF and Alou in LF, Beltran's going to have to cover a TON of ground.

(Man, that Cameron for Nady trade just looks worse every day.)

Ray Finkle
02-21-2007, 09:55 PM
Given Willie's love for veterans, Green will get every chance to win that job. But man, I really hope Milledge is ready to take it from him. Green is so slow that he's practically growing roots in right field. With Green in RF and Alou in LF, Beltran's going to have to cover a TON of ground.

(Man, that Cameron for Nady trade just looks worse every day.)

Maybe not the Nady for Oliver Perez trade though.

Boik14
02-21-2007, 09:59 PM
Given Willie's love for veterans, Green will get every chance to win that job. But man, I really hope Milledge is ready to take it from him. Green is so slow that he's practically growing roots in right field. With Green in RF and Alou in LF, Beltran's going to have to cover a TON of ground.

(Man, that Cameron for Nady trade just looks worse every day.) Cant agree wih you on nady/cameron. Nady kills lefties and that hurt us down the stretch. Then dealing Nady we got Hernandez and Perez who were instrumental down the stretch. Cameron is overrated trash. All his Hr's are solo's with the team down by 3 or more runs. I loved the Nady Cameron trade since nady is a better player at a fraction of the cost and I like it more every day.

Milledge is going to have to earn that spot and i hope he does cause I cant stand green. He and alou were the 2 worst in zone rating in the entire NL but at least alou can hit. He kills LHP and actually was having one of his better years last year...

phunwin
02-21-2007, 10:27 PM
Maybe not the Nady for Oliver Perez trade though.

No, that I don't regret.


Cant agree wih you on nady/cameron. Nady kills lefties and that hurt us down the stretch. Then dealing Nady we got Hernandez and Perez who were instrumental down the stretch. Cameron is overrated trash. All his Hr's are solo's with the team down by 3 or more runs. I loved the Nady Cameron trade since nady is a better player at a fraction of the cost and I like it more every day.

Milledge is going to have to earn that spot and i hope he does cause I cant stand green. He and alou were the 2 worst in zone rating in the entire NL but at least alou can hit. He kills LHP and actually was having one of his better years last year...

Here's the problem though: Nady was white-hot for the first 6 weeks, and then fell off a cliff. Fact is, he's a subpar hitter (for a corner OF/1B) whose only real value is that he can play all three OF positions and 1B (once upon a time, he could play 3B, but that skill appears to be gone). If he's an everyday starter, as opposed to a supersub, he's a liability. His best use would have been subbing for Delgado against tough lefties and platooning with Green in RF and replacing him for defensive purposes late in the game. Of course, Green was acquired after Nady was traded, but that's besides the point.

As for Cameron, a look at his stats shows that you're incorrect. Over the last three years, his OPS is .819 (nearly identical left/right splits). With runners on, it goes up to .863. With men on and 2 out, it's .868. With runners in scoring position, it jumps to .873. And with runners in scoring position and 2 out, it's .879.

So he gets better with runners on, and better still with runners on and 2 out.

Cameron's excellent range would have allowed Beltran to shade more toward LF and help Alou, and as for money, at $7M, he's cheaper than Alou and Green. Moreover, while he may not slaughter left handed pitching like Alou does, he's a balanced enough player to stay in the lineup regularly. Nady only looked better during his hot start to the season. Aside from that, Cameron's a better hitter by any measure.

Boik14
02-21-2007, 11:22 PM
No, that I don't regret.



Here's the problem though: Nady was white-hot for the first 6 weeks, and then fell off a cliff. Fact is, he's a subpar hitter (for a corner OF/1B) whose only real value is that he can play all three OF positions and 1B (once upon a time, he could play 3B, but that skill appears to be gone). If he's an everyday starter, as opposed to a supersub, he's a liability. His best use would have been subbing for Delgado against tough lefties and platooning with Green in RF and replacing him for defensive purposes late in the game. Of course, Green was acquired after Nady was traded, but that's besides the point.

As for Cameron, a look at his stats shows that you're incorrect. Over the last three years, his OPS is .819 (nearly identical left/right splits). With runners on, it goes up to .863. With men on and 2 out, it's .868. With runners in scoring position, it jumps to .873. And with runners in scoring position and 2 out, it's .879.

So he gets better with runners on, and better still with runners on and 2 out.

Cameron's excellent range would have allowed Beltran to shade more toward LF and help Alou, and as for money, at $7M, he's cheaper than Alou and Green. Moreover, while he may not slaughter left handed pitching like Alou does, he's a balanced enough player to stay in the lineup regularly. Nady only looked better during his hot start to the season. Aside from that, Cameron's a better hitter by any measure. Actually hes less expensive then green cause we're only paying 5.5 of green's 9m this year cause zona is kickin in money.

You talk aboy Cameron's OPS but i wasnt referring to his OPS. I said all his homers seem to come in situations where its down by 3 runs or more...i cant find the stat to bear this out but id bet a nice some of money its over 40%.

As far as Cameron's stats you bring up the good well heres the bad:
Hes a career k per game player.
250 BA is about his standard
career 342 obp/789 ops nothing great.
His career OBP puts him to low to bat leadoff so hes really by default a 7/8 hitter whereas nady being a better contact guy and a better rbi guy is a better 6/7 hitter...
One anaomaly I noticed with Cameron: He always has his best year in his first year in a new place. His first season with CWS, Seattle, NYM were his best. TBD: SD. Cincy he only played 1 year there.

Nady presented a better upside at a fraction of the cost. Cameron was also coming off an injury. Theres not an ounce of legitimacy that Cameron is a betetr offensive player because you cant judge him as a CF with Beltran already playing there. Hes got to be judged as a corner OF cause thats where he was playing with NYM.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3331

Boik14
02-21-2007, 11:38 PM
http://blogs.nydailynews.com/mets/

David Wright slugs it out with Jimmy Rollins...this could get ugly for teh Phils folks...

“If that’s Jimmy’s way of motivating the team, then that’s his choice,” David Wright said. “That’s something you’re not going to find around here. We don’t need any motivation. We go out there and we’re going to take care of business. We have the type of veteran leadership that isn’t going to talk about it. We’re going to go out there and back it up.”

Boik14
02-21-2007, 11:46 PM
Wagner working on a splitter: http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070221&content_id=1810275&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym

The good side of this is just think how many of those 1300 pitches were 96-98 mph fastballs...I think its a good thing Wagners adding another pitch to his repitiore as long as he has confidence when throwing it and can command it well enough get it over the plate consistenly then it should really help his arm strength and get to October without getting tired like he said he did last season.

There can be little doubt how much this pitch has done already for many HOF pitchers so we'll see if it can have the same effect for wagner by this time next year: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastball

"Wagner is working on developing a split-finger fastball, a pitch designed to complement his normal four-seam fastball and, more to the point, enable him to reach the end of the season -- whenever that might be -- with fuel still in his tank.

When Wagner told Peterson that he wanted to get back to being the old Billy, Peterson suggested developing a two-seam fastball to give hitters a different, sinking look.

Wagner worked with that suggestion during the offseason, his index and middle fingers aligning with the stitches on either side of the ball's sweet spot.

He had thrown 1,242 pitches in 70 regular-season appearances before facing the Dodgers in the National League Division Series, and by the time he took on the Cardinals, Wagner had thrown another 58 -- 1,300 pitches for No. 13, more than he had thrown in all but one his previous 10 seasons.

His experimental pitchers sunk, as desired.

But when Wagner almost inadvertently spread his fingers wider, a sharper break resulted from the modified split.

"It's not a great, big break," Wagner said on Wednesday, after completing the first official full-team workout.

That made the new pitch an official part of Wagner's second Mets camp.

"It's not like some of the big ones," he said. "But I've been working on it in side seasons, and it's been pretty good. It's something different for me, and I pretty much know where it's going."

"I wanted something I could throw early in the count and maybe get a ground ball and maybe throw a few less pitches," Wagner said. "I'm getting too old to be just throwing full-bore all the time.

"But don't worry -- I'll get it up there."

Boik14
02-21-2007, 11:48 PM
Omar on Fernando Martinez and Carlos :http://blogs.nydailynews.com/mets/

On Martinez:

Is the fact he's doing it at 18 more impressive?

"You’re talking about a kid that would be a senior in high school right now. Maybe even a junior. To be able to do what he’s doing – his hitting ability, just how he handles himself as a person, maturity, he’s a special player."

Will he start in Double-A?

"We’ll see how he goes. He’ll try to make the Double-A team. We weren’t afraid to challenge him last year. We won’t be afraid to challenge him this year."

Will he and Gomez mostly play center field in the minors this year, or would you move them to the corners in preparation for their likely role in the majors?

"It doesn’t matter. They might rotate. They might play center field. We did that with Juan Gonzalez and Sammy Sosa. They played center field and then we switched them around."

On Gomez:

What strikes you about him?

"You’re talking about a player that has great physical ability. He’s got speed. He’s got an arm. He’s got youth. He’s aggressive. He plays the game in a style that I like to think the Mets are about – we’re about stealing bases and aggressive baseball."

Do you see him as a leadoff hitter?

"I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you he’s going to be that. Just because he has speed, that doesn’t mean he’s a leadoff hitter. He has power potential, too. He can be so many different things because of his ability. As long as he’s in the lineup, I don’t care where he hits."

AirMarino83
02-21-2007, 11:55 PM
god, i wish we could fast foward 3 years to have fernando and carlos on this years team.

AirMarino83
02-22-2007, 05:08 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/news/story?id=2774991

just nothing i hope... as if our rotation isnt weak as it is.

Boik14
02-22-2007, 09:03 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/news/story?id=2774991

just nothing i hope... as if our rotation isnt weak as it is. Peterson was on CBS saying its just arthritis, he'll have it the rest of his career....which leads me to believe theres no way hes 37 as listed, 47 maybe.

Whatever, Satchel Paige til he was 57 or something...as long as El Duque is still effective hes ok with me.

AirMarino83
02-22-2007, 10:01 PM
arthritis? yeah, maybe closer to 50 isnt so far fecthed. lol.

NJFINSFAN1
02-22-2007, 11:14 PM
You can get arthritis at a very young age also.

Boik14
02-23-2007, 01:03 AM
You can get arthritis at a very young age also.Speaking from experience during your younger years...15-20 years ago :)

NJFINSFAN1
02-23-2007, 10:57 AM
Speaking from experience during your younger years...15-20 years ago :)


:lol:

Nah, but kids can get it a very young age, it is more common when older yes, but children and younger people get it also.

AirMarino83
02-23-2007, 04:55 PM
el duque isnt a child or a yonger person... is he? :)

Boik14
02-23-2007, 08:04 PM
:lol:

Nah, but kids can get it a very young age, it is more common when older yes, but children and younger people get it also.I knew that, I was just messing :D

Boik14
02-23-2007, 08:25 PM
With all the trashtalk between the mets and phils i got a kick out of this....

It’s amazing, for two teams who reside so geographically close to each other there has never been a real rivalry to speak of. While the forty five years of Mets history hasn’t been filled with trophies at least we’ve won two titles. Now compare this with the Phillies, who have one (1) World Series in their history (1980), a history that began in 1883. A history so filled with futility that this year, the Phillies will become the first professional team in organized sports to lose ten thousand games.

http://www.nybaseballonline.com/fit_35_Phillies-Jimmy-Rollins.htm

Call me nuts but I believe Florida and atlanta (especially atlanta) pose a significantly larger threat. At least with Atlanta we can argue they strengthened their pen (Mike Gonzalez, Wickman, Rafael Soriano) and they have a good rotation if things break right (Smoltz/Hudson/James and as much as I hate to admit it we know Hampton could be good again) and they outscored the mets last year....

Boik14
02-23-2007, 08:42 PM
Lastly I do encourage my fellow Met fans to start chanting "wifebeater" to Brett Myers...lets see if he goes artest in shea :)

"“I hate the Mets…I want to beat them more than anyone else. What we need to do is make sure none of their fans get in our building. We shouldn't sell tickets to Mets fans.”
http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070223/SPORTS01/702230392

NJFINSFAN1
02-26-2007, 07:04 PM
"I'm back," Perez said. "I'm happy. The last few games I was feeling really good. I know that's me. After the season I was trying to continue to learn and understand about what happened last year. Now that feels like a long time ago. The Mets believed in me. I understand I can do this. That's why I'm here."

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTQmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODQyNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

phunwin
02-28-2007, 09:48 AM
"I'm back," Perez said. "I'm happy. The last few games I was feeling really good. I know that's me. After the season I was trying to continue to learn and understand about what happened last year. Now that feels like a long time ago. The Mets believed in me. I understand I can do this. That's why I'm here."

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMTQmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODQyNjUmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

He's always had wicked stuff, but for whatever reason, he just lost the strike zone the last couple years. That Game 7 playoff start had to do wonders for his confidence, and if you've got confidence, good stuff and a good pitching coach, there's no reason you can't succeed.

Boik14
02-28-2007, 10:08 AM
He's always had wicked stuff, but for whatever reason, he just lost the strike zone the last couple years. That Game 7 playoff start had to do wonders for his confidence, and if you've got confidence, good stuff and a good pitching coach, there's no reason you can't succeed.
He lost the strike zone because Pitt tried to make him into Tom Glavine so he could pitch deeper in games. Their bullpen was so bad te last few years, they toyed with is release point, arm angle to try and get him to throw asofter and nibble more on the corners. After we acquired him there was actually a video on you tube i believe that showed his release point last year compared to 04 and then after his 3rd or 4th start there was another video that showed Perez as a met and his release point was getting closer to where it was in 04. Im willing to bet Peterson fixes him and gets him close to that 04 level.

NJFINSFAN1
02-28-2007, 02:10 PM
He lost the strike zone because Pitt tried to make him into Tom Glavine so he could pitch deeper in games. Their bullpen was so bad te last few years, they toyed with is release point, arm angle to try and get him to throw asofter and nibble more on the corners. After we acquired him there was actually a video on you tube i believe that showed his release point last year compared to 04 and then after his 3rd or 4th start there was another video that showed Perez as a met and his release point was getting closer to where it was in 04. Im willing to bet Peterson fixes him and gets him close to that 04 level.

That would be huge if he gets back to that 04 form, and if maine just keeps steady (K'd the first two he faced yesterday), our staff will be fine.

NJFINSFAN1
02-28-2007, 02:17 PM
I'm watching the Mets play the Tigers!!!!!!!:D

Perez walked the first batter and gave up a double to the second.:ninja:

1-0 Tigers:boohoo:

Boik14
02-28-2007, 08:40 PM
I'm watching the Mets play the Tigers!!!!!!!:D

Perez walked the first batter and gave up a double to the second.:ninja:

1-0 Tigers:boohoo: and that was after hitting the SI photographer with a wild pitch! better he get it out of his system now :)

Boik14
03-08-2007, 01:10 PM
Carp looks really good this spring. i was excited about his upside for about a year now but hearing Ed Coleman on WFAN (Mets beat writer) compare him to Thome/Nick Johnson (When healthy) makes me think we have our replacement for Delgado ready when the Delgado contract ends in 2 years. We're doing a really nice job loading up for the future with good young players.

Boik14
03-09-2007, 03:13 PM
Is it me or is Rick Peterson turning Mike Pelfrey into Tim Hudson?

Consider: He's making Pelfrey develop a slider/sinker and make it throw it more as a primary pitch. He also tells him to keep it down to produce groundouts. Is he using hudson as a model so pelfrey can measure his develpment from time to time?

Pelfrey will always be a power pitcher but it seems that he's already starting to learn how to be successful at this level. Thats scary. I would have much more confidence in pelfrey's ability to make an impact this year if he's able to consistently get ground balls, rather than waiting for him to develop a secondary strikeout pitch to get people out.

Boik14
03-09-2007, 03:15 PM
As per metsBlog, via john Delcos blog in the Journal News.... Milledge Loses his cornrows.


Quote:
In an update for his blog at the Journal News, John Delcos offers up a few interesting tidbits at Mets camp, including how Lastings Milledge showed up today with a hair cut, adding, “Any closer and he’d be Carlos Delgado.”

Delcos quotes Milledge as saying…

“I’ve got to get my grown man on.”

...the kid is making an effort, and working hard, so good for him…



Is our little gangsta growing up before our very eyes ?????

finswin56
03-09-2007, 03:21 PM
Thanks for all of the updates!
Good to see Lastings getting his act together, hopefully.

Only two weeks until I go to Mets ST :woot:

Boik14
03-09-2007, 04:50 PM
Thanks for all of the updates!
Good to see Lastings getting his act together, hopefully.

Only two weeks until I go to Mets ST :woot: Of course. I want our young guys to excel and I think they're cause for optimism. Usually our prospects flame out but from what ive seen and read they're very legit and a lot of teams want them. Expect to hear their names tossed around in deals and pray we dont move them.

Plus I really want Milledge to beat out Green. I cannot stomach Shawn Green anymore. Every year we always have 1 player on the team I just cannot stand because of something that happened the year before. This year its green because I feel like in part we lost the NLCS because the Cards were smart enough to know they could beat us by hitting the ball right at Green and except for the almost catch against the wall he played like poop in the field.

finswin56
03-09-2007, 05:18 PM
Of course. I want our young guys to excel and I think they're cause for optimism. Usually our prospects flame out but from what ive seen and read they're very legit and a lot of teams want them. Expect to hear their names tossed around in deals and pray we dont move them.

Plus I really want Milledge to beat out Green. I cannot stomach Shawn Green anymore. Every year we always have 1 player on the team I just cannot stand because of something that happened the year before. This year its green because I feel like in part we lost the NLCS because the Cards were smart enough to know they could beat us by hitting the ball right at Green and except for the almost catch against the wall he played like poop in the field.
I'm not holding my breath, but I am hoping for that too. I can't stand seeing an outfielder run like he's in mud. Although, Lastings sure worried me about his fielding with that series in Boston.

AirMarino83
03-09-2007, 05:18 PM
Every year we always have 1 player on the team I just cannot stand because of something that happened the year before.
for me this year it is jose valentin... just want another secondbasemen! we havent had a good run of them the past couple of times... alomar, kaz, and jose... gimme someone near edgardo alfonso of 98-2000.

Boik14
03-09-2007, 07:41 PM
I'm not holding my breath, but I am hoping for that too. I can't stand seeing an outfielder run like he's in mud. Although, Lastings sure worried me about his fielding with that series in Boston. Yeah but Lastings is a baby.... and at that point he was probably still justing to not being a CF anymore.

Boik14
03-09-2007, 07:46 PM
for me this year it is jose valentin... just want another secondbasemen! we havent had a good run of them the past couple of times... alomar, kaz, and jose... gimme someone near edgardo alfonso of 98-2000.Yeah Im not fond of Valentin either but I can live with him. I kind of wanted us to sign Mark Loretta because I felt he would be an ideal #2 hitter for when Lo Duca had days off and because he brings similar characteristics as Alfonzo had (with significantly less pop). Still, we better hope Valentin plays like he did from June til August because after Valentin this position is drier then a desert. I have absolutely no faith in Anderson Hernandez to hit (though he tore up winter league for the 2nd straight year) or Rueben Gotay to do anything at all on the major league level. So im really starting to love Valentin more as I write this cause at least he can field and get hot occassionally with the bat.

finswin56
03-09-2007, 08:51 PM
Yeah Im not fond of Valentin either but I can live with him. I kind of wanted us to sign Mark Loretta because I felt he would be an ideal #2 hitter for when Lo Duca had days off and because he brings similar characteristics as Alfonzo had (with significantly less pop). Still, we better hope Valentin plays like he did from June til August because after Valentin this position is drier then a desert. I have absolutely no faith in Anderson Hernandez to hit (though he tore up winter league for the 2nd straight year) or Rueben Gotay to do anything at all on the major league level. So im really starting to love Valentin more as I write this cause at least he can field and get hot occassionally with the bat.
Keep the faith on Hernandez, because I can just feel that Valentin is going to be putrid this year. Last year had to be a fluke.

AirMarino83
03-09-2007, 09:17 PM
Keep the faith on Hernandez, because I can just feel that Valentin is going to be putrid this year. Last year had to be a fluke.

damn, i hope youre very absolutely 100% wrong.

NJFINSFAN1
03-09-2007, 10:10 PM
Keep the faith on Hernandez, because I can just feel that Valentin is going to be putrid this year. Last year had to be a fluke.


Valentin was a very good hitter for a long time, what surprised me and I think the Mets was his play at second base, he was darn good.

finswin56
03-10-2007, 12:38 AM
Valentin was a very good hitter for a long time, what surprised me and I think the Mets was his play at second base, he was darn good.
He was, and his defense was far more solid that I expected. I hope I'm completely wrong, and his turnaround at the plate was do to becoming an everyday player. I know platooning kills certain players' hitting. Here's hoping that's the source of Valentin's play.

Boik14
03-12-2007, 07:12 PM
Milledge is now hitting 345 on the spring. green is 34 and declining (to put it nicely). If he keeps this up and Green keeps sucking how can Milledge not start?

Milledge is a gap hitter and he has been getting on base with singles and doubles. It is a bit of a double standard in all honesty. I mean because Green is a Veteran he gets slack which is bull****.If Edge was doing poorly many of you would have been calling for his head and for him to be dealt. Green has been in decline for the past 3 yrs. Look at the stats for his power numbers . He basically is a gap hitter now. Milledge is the same type hitter only with greater upside.I would go as far as to say tremendous abilties and all star abilities.

Look my feelings on this from day one was let the best man get the job. If Green was hitting .345 and Edge the opposite then Green deserves it .I'm really glad that Willie said he will take the best man and I hope he keeps his word because if you ask me Green did everything this spring to lose the job as much as Edge did everything well this spring to win it. I hope Willie has a clear mind to do what is right and not use that bogus veteran and exp. card

NJFINSFAN1
03-12-2007, 08:46 PM
Milledge is now hitting 345 on the spring. green is 34 and declining (to put it nicely). If he keeps this up and Green keeps sucking how can Milledge not start?

Milledge is a gap hitter and he has been getting on base with singles and doubles. It is a bit of a double standard in all honesty. I mean because Green is a Veteran he gets slack which is bull****.If Edge was doing poorly many of you would have been calling for his head and for him to be dealt. Green has been in decline for the past 3 yrs. Look at the stats for his power numbers . He basically is a gap hitter now. Milledge is the same type hitter only with greater upside.I would go as far as to say tremendous abilties and all star abilities.

Look my feelings on this from day one was let the best man get the job. If Green was hitting .345 and Edge the opposite then Green deserves it .I'm really glad that Willie said he will take the best man and I hope he keeps his word because if you ask me Green did everything this spring to lose the job as much as Edge did everything well this spring to win it. I hope Willie has a clear mind to do what is right and not use that bogus veteran and exp. card

:lol:

I just came in to start a post that Milledge is making a strong case to be the starting RF, but once again you beat me! :ninja:

finswin56
03-12-2007, 11:41 PM
Is Edge Lasting's nickname?

Boik14
03-13-2007, 12:10 AM
Is Edge Lasting's nickname?yep

Boik14
03-13-2007, 12:12 AM
:lol:

I just came in to start a post that Milledge is making a strong case to be the starting RF, but once again you beat me! :ninja: listen man im on top of my teams like white on rice :lol:

AirMarino83
03-13-2007, 04:47 AM
Is Edge Lasting's nickname?

like boik said yes it is... i think he even calls himself the edge, cause i even remember sometime last year when deadspin found an authentic myspace that was his.. named "Da Edge."
oh yeah, congrats to 2 met fans in becoming mods.

NJFINSFAN1
03-13-2007, 10:41 AM
like boik said yes it is... i think he even calls himself the edge, cause i even remember sometime last year when deadspin found an authentic myspace that was his.. named "Da Edge."
oh yeah, congrats to 2 met fans in becoming mods.


Thanks

finswin56
03-13-2007, 10:56 AM
like boik said yes it is... i think he even calls himself the edge, cause i even remember sometime last year when deadspin found an authentic myspace that was his.. named "Da Edge."
oh yeah, congrats to 2 met fans in becoming mods.
Thanks bro!

AirMarino83
03-13-2007, 10:29 PM
soler was cut.. whos next? chan ho?
heres (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/news/story?id=2796854)a good quick article that lists the pitchers that are competing for the final 3 spots in the rotation.

NJFINSFAN1
03-13-2007, 10:36 PM
soler was cut.. whos next? chan ho?
heres (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/news/story?id=2796854)a good quick article that lists the pitchers that are competing for the final 3 spots in the rotation.

Wow, I'm surprised twice.

1. You beat Boik to this! :rolleyes:

2. They released Solar and did not put him at AAA???

I would so much rather have pelfrey win the 5th spot then Park.

Vargas and Soas have looked decent also.

Boik14
03-13-2007, 11:32 PM
Wow, I'm surprised twice.

1. You beat Boik to this! :rolleyes:

2. They released Solar and did not put him at AAA???

I would so much rather have pelfrey win the 5th spot then Park.

Vargas and Soas have looked decent also. rough day at work...kinda felt like this :fire: for the last 7 hours.

AirMarino83
03-13-2007, 11:59 PM
yeah, soler is cut, not sent to the minors.. and yeah, when i posted it, i looked first to see if boik posted it (cause i was sure he would).. come on boik, im expecting to see more breaking news from you tomorrow.

Boik14
03-14-2007, 12:46 AM
There wasnt much to report when i just listened in on WFAN (streamed from wfan.com) Reported by Ed Coleman.

Big jump for Fernando Martinez going to AA, but if he handled the Arizona Fall League last year, then he should handle AA no problem. Gomez will be the starting CF at New Orleans (no longer norfolk), which is interesting because if Milledge does not make the Mets, then he will likely be moved to play RF in New Orleans, alongside Gomez in CF and probably Ben Johnson in LF (if Newhan beats him for the backup job).

He did not report anything on Deolis Guerra but from what I have read, Guerra is likely to start the year at High-A St. Lucie which is great for a kid not even 20.

Boik14
03-14-2007, 12:48 AM
1 other thing: Pelfrey scheduled for 4 innings tomarrow. A good start would go a long way for him.

NJFINSFAN1
03-14-2007, 09:07 AM
1 other thing: Pelfrey scheduled for 4 innings tomarrow. A good start would go a long way for him.

I so want Pelfrey at the #5 spot instead of Park.

Pelfrey has been pounding the lower part of the plate and getting a ton of groundouts.

AirMarino83
03-14-2007, 06:26 PM
maine looked good today (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070314&content_id=1842677&vkey=spt2007gamer&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym).
and pelfrey pitched 4 innings with one er.
i know some of you want pelfrey to win the 5th spot, do you guys think he will?

NJFINSFAN1
03-14-2007, 07:11 PM
Pelfrey was 4 innings 1 run also. In my eyes he should be the # 5 starter!

Boik14
03-14-2007, 08:59 PM
maine looked good today (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070314&content_id=1842677&vkey=spt2007gamer&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym).
and pelfrey pitched 4 innings with one er.
i know some of you want pelfrey to win the 5th spot, do you guys think he will? I think pelfrey can win the spot if he demonstrates control over his secondary pitches and keeps the runners off base.

NJFINSFAN1
03-15-2007, 08:27 AM
I think pelfrey can win the spot if he demonstrates control over his secondary pitches and keeps the runners off base.

What was good about this game is he did not have a good fastball, so he used his slider and curve to get him thru the game.

He even said after the game that last year if his fastball didn't have it, he would get all mental and would pitch bad.

The boy has seemed to grow up over the past year.

cnc66
03-15-2007, 08:47 AM
I hate the Mets...under every Mets bumper sticker is a NY tag arrrrgggggg

NJFINSFAN1
03-15-2007, 09:02 AM
I hate the Mets...under every Mets bumper sticker is a NY tag arrrrgggggg

Mine is a Jersey one!:tantrum:

cnc66
03-15-2007, 09:03 AM
you don't live "here"

Boik14
03-16-2007, 02:16 AM
I hate the Mets...under every Mets bumper sticker is a NY tag arrrrgggggg I hate the Braves. Everyone in the south is a braves fan it seems.....and no one liked them when they stunk in the early and mid 80's and prior.

But hey, at least we're not the Phillies. 2 WS in 44 years > 1 WS in 114. Philly fans talk garbage and they never win jack. Just the other day Rollins was saying hes gonna score a 150 runs and drive in a 100 with 250 hits (hed have to ho ht 329!)....silly phillie, titles are for good teams

Boik14
03-16-2007, 02:18 AM
Oh and beautiful stat line by Ollie today. 5ip, 3HA, 0 ER, 9k.

The Jacket is working his magic once again. Hes only 25 and it wont be long before we see 2004 Ollie again soon. Our rotation is going to be light years ahead of the schwag everyone thinks we have.

Maine and Pelfrey have been lights out all spring and we already know what TG and Duque can do.

GreenMonster
03-16-2007, 02:29 AM
Did anyone read that Omar didn't even have Pedro on the radar for this year. Jayson Stark said one AL GM with access to his medical records, said he won't win 10 more games total.

NJFINSFAN1
03-16-2007, 09:13 AM
Did anyone read that Omar didn't even have Pedro on the radar for this year. Jayson Stark said one AL GM with access to his medical records, said he won't win 10 more games total.

He is ahead of his recovery and will be ready by the all-star game, he is already throwing off a mound (just fastballs).

AirMarino83
03-16-2007, 02:06 PM
Oh and beautiful stat line by Ollie today. 5ip, 3HA, 0 ER, 9k.
wow.. i hope this guy does it in the regualar season. this could make me forget about the scott kazmir trade... i doubt it though.

i also heard that the dro was coming back around all star break.. i really want to see pedro back in action (and not a shell of his former self).

MassFinFan06
03-16-2007, 02:19 PM
:DA Mets & Fins Fan....I thought I was the only one...sweet!:ninja::spot:

Boik14
03-16-2007, 08:41 PM
wow.. i hope this guy does it in the regualar season. this could make me forget about the scott kazmir trade... i doubt it though.

i also heard that the dro was coming back around all star break.. i really want to see pedro back in action (and not a shell of his former self). It wont make you forget Kazmir but he can seriously pitch well. Hes still only 25 with 6 years experience and thats how he pitched all of 04 until they tried to turn him in to a harder throwing Glavine. Control has always been the issue but I think Rick "the jacket" peterson has finally cured that to a degree...We'll find out and i think we have a steal.

NJFINSFAN1
03-18-2007, 10:22 AM
Can we cut Park and Sosa yet???

AirMarino83
03-18-2007, 01:13 PM
haha, yeah, i think they called "next"

phunwin
03-18-2007, 08:59 PM
maine looked good today (http://newyork.mets.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070314&content_id=1842677&vkey=spt2007gamer&fext=.jsp&c_id=nym).
and pelfrey pitched 4 innings with one er.
i know some of you want pelfrey to win the 5th spot, do you guys think he will?

I think he will. He's looked good this spring, and I don't think that anyone's been good enough to take the job from him. I do like Jason Vargas for the spot starter/long relief role, though.

NJFINSFAN1
03-21-2007, 07:29 AM
Pelfrey, 5 innings 1 run.

I'm getting real excited about his pitching!!

Boik14
03-22-2007, 03:13 AM
You mean the prospect of Park/Sele/Sosa in the rotation didnt excite you?

Yea me neither. Them and their 5.40 (Sosa) era. And thats the best of the 3....

Boik14
03-22-2007, 06:28 AM
Ollie is on fire...oh yeah, keep it up ollie!
6 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 2 SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Omar Minaya strikes again...Ladies and Gentlemen the Mets do have a pitching staff if this keeps up. Watch out now suckas :)

NJFINSFAN1
03-22-2007, 07:29 AM
Ollie is on fire...oh yeah, keep it up ollie!
6 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 2 SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Omar Minaya strikes again...Ladies and Gentlemen the Mets do have a pitching staff if this keeps up. Watch out now suckas :)

:cooldude: :cooldude:

finswin56
03-22-2007, 08:48 AM
I'm leaving for TC tomorrow :woot:
El Duque is supposed to pitch on Friday, but I don't know who's pitching on Sunday. We're skipping Saturday to get our golf on.

Boik14
03-22-2007, 11:22 AM
I'm leaving for TC tomorrow :woot:
El Duque is supposed to pitch on Friday, but I don't know who's pitching on Sunday. We're skipping Saturday to get our golf on.sweet, have fun. I expect details sir :)

AirMarino83
03-22-2007, 05:45 PM
I'm leaving for TC tomorrow :woot:
El Duque is supposed to pitch on Friday, but I don't know who's pitching on Sunday. We're skipping Saturday to get our golf on.

have fun lucky... dont forget to post up some pics.

btw, yes the pitching staff does look like its on the right path!:D

Boik14
03-24-2007, 10:23 PM
I guess Pelfrey won the 5th starter spot?

Mets on the mound: Chan Ho Park, who has had a rough spring, changed form radically in this game. He pitched three perfect innings, requiring just 27 pitches. He struck out two, and he was told afterward to be ready to pitch Monday, likely meaning he is now seen as a long-reliever candidate along with Aaron Sele. Joe Smith, with an unorthodox sidearm delivery, struck out two and allowed a hit in a scoreless inning. Pedro Feliciano allowed his first run of the spring in 11 innings. Troubled relievers Ambiorix Burgos and Jorge Sosa each pitched an inning, with Sosa allowing an unearned run.

from Mets.com

AirMarino83
03-26-2007, 05:38 PM
this (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/spring2007/news/story?id=2813542)is really messed up... sanchez is out till august. i was hoping that he would come back to his form from last season... just wow.

Roman529
03-27-2007, 02:39 PM
My Phillies have looked really crappy this Spring Training....nobody is hitting and the pitching has sucked....hopefully it is just because it is Spring Training. I see Cholly Manuel getting fired by Mid-May if my Phightins come out of the gate slow. :boohoo:

Right now I would say things could look like this:

1. Muts
2. Braves
3. Phils
4. Marlins
5. gNats

On a positive note, the Colorado Rockies are playing the Colorado Springs Sky Sox (their AAA team) at the stadium less than a mile from my house on Friday. The Rocks are gonna surprise this year!!! :tongue:

Boik14
03-27-2007, 04:51 PM
My Phillies have looked really crappy this Spring Training....nobody is hitting and the pitching has sucked....hopefully it is just because it is Spring Training. I see Cholly Manuel getting fired by Mid-May if my Phightins come out of the gate slow. :boohoo:

Right now I would say things could look like this:

1. Muts
2. Braves
3. Phils
4. Marlins
5. gNats

On a positive note, the Colorado Rockies are playing the Colorado Springs Sky Sox (their AAA team) at the stadium less than a mile from my house on Friday. The Rocks are gonna surprise this year!!! :tongue: Oh believe me the Mets have been nothing short of bad so far at 6-13 or something. You shouldnt be down on the Philthies because of a bad spring; you should be down on the because Jimmy Rollins is talking junk, Rob Neyer called the mets an 84 win team (a season after calling Reyes the worst everyday player b/c of his .293 obp 2 years ago), and the fact that mets pitching looks better then anyone could have predicted.

NJFINSFAN1
03-27-2007, 04:59 PM
Oh believe me the Mets have been nothing short of bad so far at 6-13 or something. You shouldnt be down on the Philthies because of a bad spring; you should be down on the because Jimmy Rollins is talking junk, Rob Neyer called the mets an 84 win team (a season after calling Reyes the worst everyday player b/c of his .293 obp 2 years ago), and the fact that mets pitching looks better then anyone could have predicted.

10-18 I think, pitching has been fine, just not hitting yet.

phunwin
03-30-2007, 08:26 PM
Ollie is on fire...oh yeah, keep it up ollie!
6 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 0 ER, 2 BB, 2 SO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Omar Minaya strikes again...Ladies and Gentlemen the Mets do have a pitching staff if this keeps up. Watch out now suckas :)

For Perez, I am beginning to think that we're going to see a lot of 8 IP, 1 R, 3 H, 2 BB, 9 K outings mixed with a lot of 4 IP, 5 R, 9 H, 5 BB, 2 K outings, without much in between.

But yes, Pelfrey did win the 5th starter's job...thank God. I know Chan Ho Park walks on water and can turn "New Coke" into "Coca-Cola Classic" just by peeing in it, but I'm not sure I could handle him trotting out there every five days for us.

Another GREAT move from this spring: David Wright to the 2 hole. FINALLY! I've been pleading for the team to move either him or Beltran to that spot for over a year now.

NJFINSFAN1
03-30-2007, 09:51 PM
For Perez, I am beginning to think that we're going to see a lot of 8 IP, 1 R, 3 H, 2 BB, 9 K outings mixed with a lot of 4 IP, 5 R, 9 H, 5 BB, 2 K outings, without much in between.

But yes, Pelfrey did win the 5th starter's job...thank God. I know Chan Ho Park walks on water and can turn "New Coke" into "Coca-Cola Classic" just by peeing in it, but I'm not sure I could handle him trotting out there every five days for us.

Another GREAT move from this spring: David Wright to the 2 hole. FINALLY! I've been pleading for the team to move either him or Beltran to that spot for over a year now.

I don't like it, it makes the bottom of the order weaker!

finswin56
03-30-2007, 10:58 PM
For Perez, I am beginning to think that we're going to see a lot of 8 IP, 1 R, 3 H, 2 BB, 9 K outings mixed with a lot of 4 IP, 5 R, 9 H, 5 BB, 2 K outings, without much in between.

But yes, Pelfrey did win the 5th starter's job...thank God. I know Chan Ho Park walks on water and can turn "New Coke" into "Coca-Cola Classic" just by peeing in it, but I'm not sure I could handle him trotting out there every five days for us.

Another GREAT move from this spring: David Wright to the 2 hole. FINALLY! I've been pleading for the team to move either him or Beltran to that spot for over a year now.
Why do you like it so much? I know Wright can really hit, but it seems to me that he swings and misses too much to bat behind Reyes. I loved Dookie in that spot.

Boik14
03-31-2007, 01:36 AM
For Perez, I am beginning to think that we're going to see a lot of 8 IP, 1 R, 3 H, 2 BB, 9 K outings mixed with a lot of 4 IP, 5 R, 9 H, 5 BB, 2 K outings, without much in between.

But yes, Pelfrey did win the 5th starter's job...thank God. I know Chan Ho Park walks on water and can turn "New Coke" into "Coca-Cola Classic" just by peeing in it, but I'm not sure I could handle him trotting out there every five days for us.

Another GREAT move from this spring: David Wright to the 2 hole. FINALLY! I've been pleading for the team to move either him or Beltran to that spot for over a year now. Agreed on Perez; hopefully more of the 8 IP, 1 R, 3 H, 2 BB, 9 K type outings then the 4 IP, 5 R, 9 H, 5 BB, 2 K types. What we have to hope for is that Rick "The Jacket" Peterson can get ollie back in 04 form where he was working 6ip every time with 2 er and 10 throwing a 110 pitches. The whole reason Pitt changed his arm angle and release point is because they wanted him working deeper in games and throwing less pitches but hes just not that type of pitcher. when he gets hit, he gets hit hard. He has to avoid contact unlike most pitchers it who encourage it.

As far as putting wright in the 2 slot I hate it. Yes his OBP is higher, yes he gets more PA's there, but unless milledge is our opening day RF we now have plodders in the bottom 2/3 of the order.

After Delgado no one even resembles a base stealing threat and why tinker with what worked so well last year?

NJFINSFAN1
03-31-2007, 01:19 PM
I think you will see Wright back to where he was last year very soon, Willie will see his mistake.

In Fact, I will be with his son tomorrow and I'll ask what the heck his dad is thinking! (He is my sons hitting coach!, and my son is 5 for 11 so far, that's great considering he only got up 4 times last year 0-4 as a freshman!)

Roman529
03-31-2007, 03:27 PM
Oh believe me the Mets have been nothing short of bad so far at 6-13 or something. You shouldnt be down on the Philthies because of a bad spring; you should be down on the because Jimmy Rollins is talking junk, Rob Neyer called the mets an 84 win team (a season after calling Reyes the worst everyday player b/c of his .293 obp 2 years ago), and the fact that mets pitching looks better then anyone could have predicted.

I just checked the Grapefruit League standings, and the Mets are doing just as lousy as my Phils...but Spring Training doesn't count for anything. I will have to tune in to the Cardinals-Mets season opener Sunday night. It is so nice that baseball will be here tomorrow :) ....I can only take so much NHL and NBA. Yeah, J-Roll of my Phils likes to talk a lot :lol: ...but he always has a lot of swagger. I just think it makes the rivalry better. The Mets and Phils will both be at Coors Field around the week of the 4th of July. Can't wait to see them play the Rocks.

Boik14
03-31-2007, 04:12 PM
I think you will see Wright back to where he was last year very soon, Willie will see his mistake.

In Fact, I will be with his son tomorrow and I'll ask what the heck his dad is thinking! (He is my sons hitting coach!, and my son is 5 for 11 so far, that's great considering he only got up 4 times last year 0-4 as a freshman!)
And no sooner did we complain about it then did willie listen. Yesterday Lo Duca was back in the 2 spot.

Best of luck to your son NJ.

Boik14
03-31-2007, 04:17 PM
I just checked the Grapefruit League standings, and the Mets are doing just as lousy as my Phils...but Spring Training doesn't count for anything. I will have to tune in to the Cardinals-Mets season opener Sunday night. It is so nice that baseball will be here tomorrow :) ....I can only take so much NHL and NBA. Yeah, J-Roll of my Phils likes to talk a lot :lol: ...but he always has a lot of swagger. I just think it makes the rivalry better. The Mets and Phils will both be at Coors Field around the week of the 4th of July. Can't wait to see them play the Rocks. As long as the mets get all the losses out of their system now im ok with it. ST means nothing.

I like the NHL and NBA but with half the NYK and NYI teams hurt the playoffs dont look likely so ya baseball cant get here soon enough.

I just got offered opening day mets tix for $90...upper deck, row: egypt. I guess Id like to be able to see at least some of the game if I went. Ugh, I hope the price dips a bit during the week :boohoo:

NJFINSFAN1
03-31-2007, 08:21 PM
And no sooner did we complain about it then did willie listen. Yesterday Lo Duca was back in the 2 spot.

Best of luck to your son NJ.

Thanks, see I have a say in the Mets!!!:lol:

AirMarino83
04-01-2007, 02:15 AM
good that wright isnt in the 2spot... loduca rarely strikesout, and is the perfect guy to bat behind reyes without weakening the rest of the order.

WoodStrock81
04-01-2007, 10:42 AM
As long as the mets get all the losses out of their system now im ok with it. ST means nothing.

I like the NHL and NBA but with half the NYK and NYI teams hurt the playoffs dont look likely so ya baseball cant get here soon enough.

I just got offered opening day mets tix for $90...upper deck, row: egypt. I guess Id like to be able to see at least some of the game if I went. Ugh, I hope the price dips a bit during the week :boohoo:

Dont worry, the Mets will still be getting plenty of losses out of their system through much of april and may. The x-factor is can the Phils capitalize!?

NJFINSFAN1
04-01-2007, 02:20 PM
I talked to Willie's son today, he said when he heard Wright going to #2 he called him and told him he was crazy also.:lol:

AirMarino83
04-01-2007, 02:31 PM
I talked to Willie's son today, he said when he heard Wright going to #2 he called him and told him he was crazy also.:lol:

hehe... talkin some sense into his old man.
only a few more hours till the start of our world series run!:D

StormSurge
04-01-2007, 06:09 PM
I'd just like to throw my "Let's Go Mets!" cry here. :D

NJFINSFAN1
04-01-2007, 07:32 PM
To steal a line from DD28

WWWWOOOOOOOOOTTTTTT

LETS GO METS!!!!!:wink:

Boik14
04-01-2007, 08:42 PM
Dont worry, the Mets will still be getting plenty of losses out of their system through much of april and may. The x-factor is can the Phils capitalize!?
Judging by the 1 title in 110+ years in Phils history, my guess is no.

Boik14
04-01-2007, 08:45 PM
good that wright isnt in the 2spot... loduca rarely strikesout, and is the perfect guy to bat behind reyes without weakening the rest of the order.Aside from rarely k'ing hes a solid 2 strike hitter and his game is taking pitches and wasting pitches he cant do much with. So while he doesnt walk much, he's an effective 2 hole hitter.

Plus he makes your lineup another player deeper

Boik14
04-01-2007, 08:49 PM
Delgottem!!!! 2 run double :cooldude:

Boik14
04-01-2007, 09:10 PM
Dookie! 2 run single

Move this out of the 2 spot :)

Boik14
04-01-2007, 09:11 PM
Beltran rbi single.....

So what does spring training mean again? :)

NJFINSFAN1
04-01-2007, 09:20 PM
Glavine is looking real sharp also!

Roman529
04-01-2007, 09:56 PM
Cards leave the bases jammed. :tantrum:

Boik14
04-01-2007, 10:39 PM
Dookie! 2 run single

Move this out of the 2 spot :)
Dookie, another rbi single.

Anyone still move dookie? Anyone at all? Bueller?

King Felix
04-01-2007, 10:40 PM
that was such a nice play by reyes

NJFINSFAN1
04-01-2007, 10:43 PM
Jose V with a big play again. This guy was a big find by Omar last year!

Boik14
04-01-2007, 10:43 PM
that was such a nice play by reyesThat was valentin on the diving stop :)

and yes it was. For a guy who isnt known as a guy with great range sure has done a fine job at 2b during his time with NYM.

Boik14
04-01-2007, 10:45 PM
Jose V with a big play again. This guy was a big find by Omar last year!
Well it was a nice find but it looked horrible when we had Valentin coming off the bench where he was like 2/21 or something pathetic.

King Felix
04-01-2007, 10:45 PM
That was valentin on the diving stop :)

and yes it was. For a guy who isnt known as a guy with great range sure has done a fine job at 2b during his time with NYM.not that one, the one before that one..... :lol: i thought it was reyes

Boik14
04-01-2007, 10:48 PM
not that one, the one before that one..... :lol: i thought it was reyes Easy to make that mistake on the NY Puerto Ricans/Dominicans :D

Boik14
04-01-2007, 10:50 PM
1-0 :)

6-1

NJFINSFAN1
04-01-2007, 10:56 PM
LoDuca 2nd in the order!:wink:

AirMarino83
04-01-2007, 11:03 PM
i kinda love jose valentin a lil bit...
hope laduca's hand is ok...
nice freakin throw by beltran.... i like his guts!

1-0 is right!!!

BAMAPHIN 22
04-02-2007, 12:10 AM
1-0 :)

6-1


Glavine, Mets spoil defending champs' opener

Cardinals unable to solve New York lefty after festivities

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/04/070401_mets_hmed_8phmedium-1.jpg (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17905502/displaymode/1176/rstry/17904998/)
Mets catcher Paul Lo Duca blocks St. Louis' David Eckstein at home plate.

Tom Glavine patiently watched the St. Louis Cardinals celebrate the World Series title, a championship the New York Mets could have won themselves.

Then the 41-year-old went out and set a good example for how the Mets might finish the job this season, beating the champions 6-1 in the major league opener on Sunday night.

“There’s no question for us as a group that it was a little bit of a disappointment that it wasn’t us,” Glavine said. “It could have very easily been us, but it wasn’t. Maybe it’s the kind of thing that you watch and know that when the season is over for us, that’s what we want to be doing.”

Glavine earned his 291st win, and Carlos Delgado put the Mets ahead with an early two-run double off Chris Carpenter.

Paul Lo Duca added three RBIs and made a nifty tag at the plate for the Mets, who lost to St. Louis in Game 7 of last year’s NL championship series, which ended when Carlos Beltran took a called third strike from Adam Wainwright with the bases loaded in a 3-1 loss. The Cardinals went on to beat Detroit in five games for their first Series title since 1982.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17904998/

finswin56
04-02-2007, 12:14 AM
Never look back.
Awesome start!

arsenal
04-02-2007, 10:00 AM
:woot: good start to the season... we made carpenter our biatch... our lineup is so deep, lets hope the pitching staff can hold up its end of the bargain... glavine looked great so thats a good start...

trate121hb
04-02-2007, 10:07 AM
good game muts

phunwin
04-02-2007, 10:12 AM
Anyone still move dookie? Anyone at all? Bueller?

Me. And Ferris Bueller. If we're basing a season's worth of performance on a season opener, Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes would have made the Hall of Fame.


Why do you like it so much? I know Wright can really hit, but it seems to me that he swings and misses too much to bat behind Reyes. I loved Dookie in that spot.

The most important thing for hitting at the top of the order is OBP. Everything else is secondary. Hit-and-run tendencies, speed, K rate...all these things are much less important than how often a guy is getting on base. The more often a guy is on base, the more often the 3-5 hitters are going to have pitches to hit and men to drive in. Worrying about anything else (unless the difference in OBP is really small, or you're dropping a guy to a 3-5 spot because you don't want to waste his power at the top of the lineup) means you're just stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. It's micromanaging, and it's the kind of thing that baseball managers do to make themselves look more important than they really are.

Wright doesn't just have a higher OBP than LoDuca, he has a *MUCH* higher OBP. Last year, Wright was .381, LoDuca .355. But the year before it was .388 to .334. LoDuca's career OBP is .341, and as a 35 year old catcher, it stands to reason his OBP ISN'T going to trend upward. With Beltran, Delgado and Alou hitting behind him, Wright would see plenty of pitches to hit, and has the patience to lay off the ones that aren't good.

LoDuca doesn't strike out much...but he doesn't walk much either. And his Opening Night heroics aside, I'll bet my left nut he doesn't hit .318 again. Again, folks, we're talking about a 35 year old catcher here. These guys age like a fine wine...that is, if you're talking about it turning to vinegar.

So LoDuca's great at the hit and run, that's nice, but there's no reason Wright couldn't be good at that too, if the Mets really wanted to hit and run a lot. The guy hit .311 last year, after all, and unlike LoDuca, he's going to get better, not worse, in the next couple years. Frankly, I think the hit-and-run is an overrated tactic to begin with, since Wright has the power to drive Reyes in from first base a lot more often than LoDuca will, as do the Carloses.

Wright strikes out a lot, to which I say "so what?" Strikeouts for hitters are consistently one of the most overrated stats out there. Managers and announcers and other old-school types love to rave about "productive outs", except that the beloved "productive out" is going to lose out in the long run to a guy who spends tons of time getting on base. In any event, if Reyes steals second when the #2 hitter goes down swinging, it's no different than a groundout that moves him there.

Another point worth making: as a catcher, LoDuca can be counted upon to sit out 30-40 games because of the physical demands of the position. This forces Willie Randolph to juggle the lineup around that. If you believe that the spot in the lineup in which a player hits is of critical importance to their approach and attitude to the game, and want consistency in that, why would you put a guy who will sit out anywhere from 20 to 25% of the season in a critical spot in the order?

Finally, there's the simple matter of arithmetic: the #2 hitter will necessarily get more plate appearances than the #5 hitter. Would you rather give David Wright or Paul LoDuca more plate appearances?

The name of the game is scoring runs, not appeasing old farts like Tim McCarver. And hitting David Wright #2 is going to score more runs for this team than Paul LoDuca would.

WoodStrock81
04-02-2007, 10:23 AM
That's alright, they're supposed to win the games Glavine pitches. The thing is i didn't think they'd be able to beat up Carpenter like they did. Certainly not a good sign for the defending champs......

161 to play though.

finswin56
04-02-2007, 11:20 AM
Me. And Ferris Bueller. If we're basing a season's worth of performance on a season opener, Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes would have made the Hall of Fame.



The most important thing for hitting at the top of the order is OBP. Everything else is secondary. Hit-and-run tendencies, speed, K rate...all these things are much less important than how often a guy is getting on base. The more often a guy is on base, the more often the 3-5 hitters are going to have pitches to hit and men to drive in. Worrying about anything else (unless the difference in OBP is really small, or you're dropping a guy to a 3-5 spot because you don't want to waste his power at the top of the lineup) means you're just stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. It's micromanaging, and it's the kind of thing that baseball managers do to make themselves look more important than they really are.

Wright doesn't just have a higher OBP than LoDuca, he has a *MUCH* higher OBP. Last year, Wright was .381, LoDuca .355. But the year before it was .388 to .334. LoDuca's career OBP is .341, and as a 35 year old catcher, it stands to reason his OBP ISN'T going to trend upward. With Beltran, Delgado and Alou hitting behind him, Wright would see plenty of pitches to hit, and has the patience to lay off the ones that aren't good.

LoDuca doesn't strike out much...but he doesn't walk much either. And his Opening Night heroics aside, I'll bet my left nut he doesn't hit .318 again. Again, folks, we're talking about a 35 year old catcher here. These guys age like a fine wine...that is, if you're talking about it turning to vinegar.

So LoDuca's great at the hit and run, that's nice, but there's no reason Wright couldn't be good at that too, if the Mets really wanted to hit and run a lot. The guy hit .311 last year, after all, and unlike LoDuca, he's going to get better, not worse, in the next couple years. Frankly, I think the hit-and-run is an overrated tactic to begin with, since Wright has the power to drive Reyes in from first base a lot more often than LoDuca will, as do the Carloses.

Wright strikes out a lot, to which I say "so what?" Strikeouts for hitters are consistently one of the most overrated stats out there. Managers and announcers and other old-school types love to rave about "productive outs", except that the beloved "productive out" is going to lose out in the long run to a guy who spends tons of time getting on base. In any event, if Reyes steals second when the #2 hitter goes down swinging, it's no different than a groundout that moves him there.

Another point worth making: as a catcher, LoDuca can be counted upon to sit out 30-40 games because of the physical demands of the position. This forces Willie Randolph to juggle the lineup around that. If you believe that the spot in the lineup in which a player hits is of critical importance to their approach and attitude to the game, and want consistency in that, why would you put a guy who will sit out anywhere from 20 to 25% of the season in a critical spot in the order?

Finally, there's the simple matter of arithmetic: the #2 hitter will necessarily get more plate appearances than the #5 hitter. Would you rather give David Wright or Paul LoDuca more plate appearances?

The name of the game is scoring runs, not appeasing old farts like Tim McCarver. And hitting David Wright #2 is going to score more runs for this team than Paul LoDuca would.
Thanks for the response. You may have converted my opinion :wink:

Boik14
04-02-2007, 01:38 PM
Me. And Ferris Bueller. If we're basing a season's worth of performance on a season opener, Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes would have made the Hall of Fame. Based on last year too not just one game. This lineup is just not as deep with Wright batting 2 and then having Delgado/Alou/Green/Lo Duca/Pitcher makes the back end of our lineup slower then dirt.


The most important thing for hitting at the top of the order is OBP. Everything else is secondary. Hit-and-run tendencies, speed, K rate...all these things are much less important than how often a guy is getting on base. The more often a guy is on base, the more often the 3-5 hitters are going to have pitches to hit and men to drive in. This is so dead wrong imo, I have to take a deep breath just to figure out where to begin bro. This is the type of thinking a stathead goes to but when you actually watch the games you see the other things that are really important. Im sorry if that sounds harsh.

David Wright is flat out a better player than Paul Lo Duca; lets get that out of the way. Normally i'd have no opposition to getting him more AB's. However David Wright is an aggressive fastball hitter who doesn't like to take that pitch. Why am I bringing that up? Because he swings and misses...a pretty good amount. Paul Lo Duca is a guy who k's about 1/3 as often as Wright, hits better with 2 strikes, and shows a willingness to take pitches allowing Reyes to run at will.

Those things you say aren't as important to me are just as important. You put a guy like Wright in the 2 spot who swings and misses quite a bit you open the door for more strike out/throw out plays and more importantly you flat out waste Wright's ability to drive in runs. Sure he'd still drive in Reyes but in the 5 spot he gets to drive in a lot more guys with high OBP's like Beltran, Delgado etc. He adds a little speed to balance out the slow back end of the lineup. And lets not lose sight of the fact that David Wright is, first and foremost a great RBI guy and we'd be taking that away from him and more importantly our team.

Ive used the Phillies lineup as an example before. They have a bunch of boppers but no one who really shows a willingness to take a ton of pitches and is a good contact guy, who can hit well with 2 strikes. As a result they, at times, are forced to waste Utley in the two spot instead of letting him be an RBI machine in front of Howard.




Wright doesn't just have a higher OBP than LoDuca, he has a *MUCH* higher OBP. Last year, Wright was .381, LoDuca .355. But the year before it was .388 to .334. LoDuca's career OBP is .341, and as a 35 year old catcher, it stands to reason his OBP ISN'T going to trend upward. With Beltran, Delgado and Alou hitting behind him, Wright would see plenty of pitches to hit, and has the patience to lay off the ones that aren't good. You talk about taking pitches...Lo Duca hit almost 400 after the count reached 2-0. Now ask yourself how many good pitches he would see hitting in the 7th or 8th slot to do that with? Batting 2nd/3rd/5th for his career Lo Duca is 289/294/307 with 2nd having the majority, by far, of games played. Obviously there is a comfort level there and other managers have seen the same thing I see with Lo Duca; hes a work the count type hitter that allows the leadoff guy to run and the rest of the team to see pitches. Thats invaluable. Conversely at the bottom of the lineup Lo Duca is a career 236 hitter with a 298 obp in the 8th spot where he would probably be hitting in the 2 spot. By keeping him in that 2 spot we gain on average about 3-4 points of OBP from Lo Duca and a significant jump in BA. So is the loss of production from Lo Duca outweighed by the potential gain in production by Wright? My answer is no. You dont rob from one part of the team to give to another and you dont weaken the team unless there's something wrong with the way it currently is.


Wright strikes out a lot, to which I say "so what?" Strikeouts for hitters are consistently one of the most overrated stats out there. Managers and announcers and other old-school types love to rave about "productive outs", except that the beloved "productive out" is going to lose out in the long run to a guy who spends tons of time getting on base. In any event, if Reyes steals second when the #2 hitter goes down swinging, it's no different than a groundout that moves him there. In that instance it doesnt matter. Where the ability to make contact does matter is when it comes to situational baseball. Runner on 2nd on out where you at least want to see the runner on 3b to open the door for a sac fly. Runner on 1st and 3rd, wright is more likely to not get that run home because he k's 3x as much.


Another point worth making: as a catcher, LoDuca can be counted upon to sit out 30-40 games because of the physical demands of the position. This forces Willie Randolph to juggle the lineup around that. If you believe that the spot in the lineup in which a player hits is of critical importance to their approach and attitude to the game, and want consistency in that, why would you put a guy who will sit out anywhere from 20 to 25% of the season in a critical spot in the order?. Wait, so you want to juggle the lineup from what worked well last year to a risk and then worry about the 30-40 games Lo Duca may sit? Thats kinda Phunny Phil :D

NJFINSFAN1
04-02-2007, 02:29 PM
I'm not converted, LoDuca belongs in the two hole, not Wright. I agree with many of the reasons Boik stated, and as a basball manager myself, I would never bat Wright in the two hole.

phunwin
04-02-2007, 09:01 PM
David Wright is flat out a better player than Paul Lo Duca; lets get that out of the way. Normally i'd have no opposition to getting him more AB's. However David Wright is an aggressive fastball hitter who doesn't like to take that pitch. Why am I bringing that up? Because he swings and misses...a pretty good amount. Paul Lo Duca is a guy who k's about 1/3 as often as Wright, hits better with 2 strikes, and shows a willingness to take pitches allowing Reyes to run at will.

So Wright isn't a sufficiently patient hitter to allow Reyes to run at will? That's strange. I thought walks were a pretty good indicator of plate patience, and Wright has a lot more of those.


Those things you say aren't as important to me are just as important. You put a guy like Wright in the 2 spot who swings and misses quite a bit you open the door for more strike out/throw out plays and more importantly you flat out waste Wright's ability to drive in runs. Sure he'd still drive in Reyes but in the 5 spot he gets to drive in a lot more guys with high OBP's like Beltran, Delgado etc.

Wright's RBI total would, to be sure, decline a bit. Of course, his runs would increase a tremendous amount. Think about how much more often the Carloses would be coming to bat with men on base. That's not a powerful incentive for you? If LoDuca's such a great contact hitter, why wouldn't you want him hitting after all these guys who are great at getting on base? In theory, why not hit him 8th, so as to move runners along or bring them home before the pitcher's slot?


He adds a little speed to balance out the slow back end of the lineup. And lets not lose sight of the fact that David Wright is, first and foremost a great RBI guy and we'd be taking that away from him and more importantly our team.

Well, Wright strikes out roughly one of every six plate appearances. Reyes was caught stealing a total of 17 times last year. If Wright strikes out 1/6 of the time, then 1/6 of Reyes' caught stealings would come at the same time as Wright's strikeouts. That would suggest 3 K-CS double plays per year from those two.

I admit the math is a bit more complex than that, but the idea's the same. Again, stepping over dollars to grab nickels.

As for the back of the lineup being slow...so what? If LoDuca's on 2nd and Carlos Beltran's on 1st, that strikes me as being a bad outcome in that it pretty much assures that Beltran's not using his speed to its full potential. That's not a problem if Wright's ahead of him. If LoDuca's hitting late, who does that hurt? It's not like Valentin, Green or Alou is going to take extra bases.


Ive used the Phillies lineup as an example before. They have a bunch of boppers but no one who really shows a willingness to take a ton of pitches and is a good contact guy, who can hit well with 2 strikes. As a result they, at times, are forced to waste Utley in the two spot instead of letting him be an RBI machine in front of Howard.

Hey, I know who takes pitches well: David Wright!


You talk about taking pitches...Lo Duca hit almost 400 after the count reached 2-0. Now ask yourself how many good pitches he would see hitting in the 7th or 8th slot to do that with? Batting 2nd/3rd/5th for his career Lo Duca is 289/294/307 with 2nd having the majority, by far, of games played. Obviously there is a comfort level there and other managers have seen the same thing I see with Lo Duca; hes a work the count type hitter that allows the leadoff guy to run and the rest of the team to see pitches. Thats invaluable. Conversely at the bottom of the lineup Lo Duca is a career 236 hitter with a 298 obp in the 8th spot where he would probably be hitting in the 2 spot. By keeping him in that 2 spot we gain on average about 3-4 points of OBP from Lo Duca and a significant jump in BA. So is the loss of production from Lo Duca outweighed by the potential gain in production by Wright? My answer is no. You dont rob from one part of the team to give to another and you dont weaken the team unless there's something wrong with the way it currently is.

You continue to allege that David Wright can't work the count, and yet he's significantly better at drawing walks than Paul LoDuca. That is, to be charitable, logically inconsistent. Here's the thing your analysis overlooks: LoDuca is not the hitter he was last year, and at age 35, betting on him to be that good is going to bite the team in the rear end.

LoDuca is going to get worse. Wright is going to get better. I can't imagine you would dispute either of those points. If LoDuca is hitting .295 with a .330 OBP in the 2 hole, which isn't just possible, but likely, how's it going to look? Is it worth letting him continue to do All The Little Things despite a 60 point gap in OBP (and a massive gap in slugging percentage, probably a good 120 points) compared to what David Wright would bring to the spot? And if LoDuca's so much better hitting 2nd, with the Carloses behind him, why is it so unreasonable to believe that Wright could end up with an OBP well over .400? Or a .330 batting average?


In that instance it doesnt matter. Where the ability to make contact does matter is when it comes to situational baseball. Runner on 2nd on out where you at least want to see the runner on 3b to open the door for a sac fly. Runner on 1st and 3rd, wright is more likely to not get that run home because he k's 3x as much.

While it's true that Wright is less likely to make contact and deliver a sac fly, he's also much more likely to get the runner on first home. "Situational baseball" is well and good, but in the end, the goal is to put as many runs on the board as humanly possible.


Wait, so you want to juggle the lineup from what worked well last year to a risk and then worry about the 30-40 games Lo Duca may sit? Thats kinda Phunny Phil :D

Actually, I think the whole concept of having players in their "comfort zones" is overrated, and for the most part, deviations in production are due more to seeing more or less good pitches given the hitters behind them or the number of guys on base. I made the point because you seem to value the beloved "comfort zone".

But it raises a good point, doesn't it? If LoDuca's out, who's hitting 2nd? If we're so set on Wright hitting 5th, who bats 2nd? If Wright hits 2nd, we don't have to worry about that. If LoDuca does, we've got to plug someone else in, probably Valentin, who is TERRIBLY suited to hit 2nd.

Boik14
04-02-2007, 10:24 PM
So Wright isn't a sufficiently patient hitter to allow Reyes to run at will? That's strange. I thought walks were a pretty good indicator of plate patience, and Wright has a lot more of those.
Theyre different types of hitters Phil. Lo Duca is a classic hitter who will hit anything close to the strike zone. Wright is a fastball hitter who waits for a fastball regardless of what the count is unless theres a hanging breaking ball so fat it needs Jenny Craig. DW may have a lot more walks but he also gets fewer balls in play. And I think this is where our difference comes in to play in that our differences seem to be philosophical as much as anything. I am a big believer that your #2 hitter should be your best situational hitter because most often your 2 and 7 guys are faced with the most situational scenarios. Putting Lo Duca 2nd makes Green 7th. For all his knocks, Green is a professional hitter not a feast or famine guy like Valentin. This puts two of our best situational players in spots in the order where situational baseball most often seems to come in to play.



Wright's RBI total would, to be sure, decline a bit. Of course, his runs would increase a tremendous amount. Think about how much more often the Carloses would be coming to bat with men on base. That's not a powerful incentive for you? If LoDuca's such a great contact hitter, why wouldn't you want him hitting after all these guys who are great at getting on base? In theory, why not hit him 8th, so as to move runners along or bring them home before the pitcher's slot? Id rather let Wright be what he is, a great RBI guy because you can never have too many. This isnt about Wright's productivity; its about where Lo Duca is most productive. At the end of the lineup his career stats say hes a liability. At the 2 spot hes an asset. Wright's an asset regardless of where he hits. Converting Lo Duca from a 236 career hitter in the 8 spot to a 289 hitter in the 2 spot and still having Wright in the 5 spot hitting 310 and driving in 115 is more valuable than getting Wright more AB's while making Lo Duca a liability.


Well, Wright strikes out roughly one of every six plate appearances. Reyes was caught stealing a total of 17 times last year. If Wright strikes out 1/6 of the time, then 1/6 of Reyes' caught stealings would come at the same time as Wright's strikeouts. That would suggest 3 K-CS double plays per year from those two.

I admit the math is a bit more complex than that, but the idea's the same. Again, stepping over dollars to grab nickels. This is entirely irrelevant when you read my last point.


As for the back of the lineup being slow...so what? If LoDuca's on 2nd and Carlos Beltran's on 1st, that strikes me as being a bad outcome in that it pretty much assures that Beltran's not using his speed to its full potential. That's not a problem if Wright's ahead of him. If LoDuca's hitting late, who does that hurt? It's not like Valentin, Green or Alou is going to take extra bases. You want a lineup that maximizes full potential right? Right, i know you do cause we're both Met fans. Well remember how good Rickey and Roger were at manufacturing runs for the 99 mets? Wright may not be Roger Cedeno but he has some of that base stealing ability and he can go 1st to 3rd on a single to center unlike the rest of the bottom of the lineup which reminds me of the 2003 Red Sox or the A's in any given year who tried to play station to station baseball.


You continue to allege that David Wright can't work the count, and yet he's significantly better at drawing walks than Paul LoDuca. That is, to be charitable, logically inconsistent. Here's the thing your analysis overlooks: LoDuca is not the hitter he was last year, and at age 35, betting on him to be that good is going to bite the team in the rear end. I never said Wright cant work the count. I said Wright is a fastball hitter. He will wait for a fastball whereas if there is a hit and run on Lo Duca is a better bet to make contact regardless of the pitch. Wright can hit the breaking ball hes just not as adept at it.


LoDuca is going to get worse. Wright is going to get better. I can't imagine you would dispute either of those points. If LoDuca is hitting .295 with a .330 OBP in the 2 hole, which isn't just possible, but likely, how's it going to look? Is it worth letting him continue to do All The Little Things despite a 60 point gap in OBP (and a massive gap in slugging percentage, probably a good 120 points) compared to what David Wright would bring to the spot? And if LoDuca's so much better hitting 2nd, with the Carloses behind him, why is it so unreasonable to believe that Wright could end up with an OBP well over .400? Or a .330 batting average? Your basis for this is purely speculative. At some point it probably will happen but there is guarantee it will be this year and until it is proven that it is this year we shouldnt move a guy who loses effectiveness as he gets moved down in the order. You talk about the 60 point gap in OBP between Wright and Lo Duca. What about the 55 point gap in Lo Duca's BA and the lost RBI production from Wright? When Alou gets hurt who hits fifth? Green? And you were worried about the 40 games Lo Duca may miss?



Actually, I think the whole concept of having players in their "comfort zones" is overrated, and for the most part, deviations in production are due more to seeing more or less good pitches given the hitters behind them or the number of guys on base. I made the point because you seem to value the beloved "comfort zone". I deifnitely value the comfort zone. I also value facts that backup the comfort zone. Fact: The difference between Lo Duca and Wright in OBP is the same difference as Lo Duca hitting 2nd vs 8th.


But it raises a good point, doesn't it? If LoDuca's out, who's hitting 2nd? If we're so set on Wright hitting 5th, who bats 2nd? If Wright hits 2nd, we don't have to worry about that. If LoDuca does, we've got to plug someone else in, probably Valentin, who is TERRIBLY suited to hit 2nd. Well if Wright hitting 2nd who hits fifth? We know Alou is good for an injury every year the same 30-40 games Lo Duca will miss. Green cant hit 5th because no one fears him, they'll just pitch around delgado. If we have Green hitting 7th though they cant walk green to get to Valentin or the pitcher because then they run a decent chance it gets back to the top of our lineup and thats where they dont want to be.

Boik14
04-03-2007, 10:02 PM
El Duque with a 2 run double...maybe we can put him in the 2 spot :)

Boik14
04-03-2007, 11:09 PM
Wagner coming in for the 9th....Due up.
Rolen
Edmonds
Pitcher spot

Boik14
04-03-2007, 11:14 PM
wow, wagner actually worked a 1-2-3 9th!

AirMarino83
04-03-2007, 11:24 PM
boik, you get to watch all mets games dont you?

lucky

Boik14
04-04-2007, 12:28 AM
boik, you get to watch all mets games dont you?

lucky Yes I do...and I go to plenty of them as well. This year I did a 7 game plan and i bought tix for 5 other games so far. I try and get to 12-15 a year but I try and tape the ones I wont be able to to watch immediately because of work but also because I like to disect the things our players are doing well/not doing well.

Like so far I noticed, before Keith Hernandez said it in the postgame, that reyes isnt swinging at the bad breaking pitches he always swung at in the past. Let's hope that keeps up. :wink:

AirMarino83
04-04-2007, 02:16 AM
like i said... lucky guy.
hopefully reyes does hold back his swing on those breakin pitches... i die a lil bit ever time he goes down on strike three with a bad swing at a bad pitch.

NJFINSFAN1
04-04-2007, 08:11 AM
El Duqe looked great (Although no k's) but I think Willie let him throw a few to many pitches. This guy breaks down at the end of the season and we need him fresh.

But who know's, maybe he gets a mystery injury just as Pedro comes back so he is fresh for the strecth run?

NJFINSFAN1
04-04-2007, 08:19 AM
Back to the wright in the 2 hole thing.

Wright is a very good two strike hitter, but he does swing and miss at the first two often (power swings to drive the ball). When he gets two strikes he becomes more disciplined at the plate, makes contact and uses all fields.

If he moves to the two hole, your asking him to change his whole approach at the plate. You want him to act like there are two strikes all the time. He then loses his aggressivness and power.

He needs to hit from 3 to 5 in the order.

MikeO
04-04-2007, 09:47 AM
I would want David Wright driving in runs not taking pitches so Reyes can steal or trying to advance runners hitting in the 2 hole

arsenal
04-04-2007, 10:05 AM
Yes I do...and I go to plenty of them as well. This year I did a 7 game plan and i bought tix for 5 other games so far. I try and get to 12-15 a year but I try and tape the ones I wont be able to to watch immediately because of work but also because I like to disect the things our players are doing well/not doing well.

Like so far I noticed, before Keith Hernandez said it in the postgame, that reyes isnt swinging at the bad breaking pitches he always swung at in the past. Let's hope that keeps up. :wink:

yeah i just got 2 - 5 game packs with a buddy... the 5 game packs were cheap as hell 37 bucks a person... seats not great, but they'll do the trick... and i work 2 seconds away from the stadium in college point, and **** i live 5 seconds away from it in astoria... so i go to lots of games...

and el duque was on last night... this is a potent cardinal lineup that we've handled these first 2 games... lets hope maine can continue it...

AirMarino83
04-04-2007, 05:16 PM
lucky ny fans... get a chance to see the fins once a year... and the mets a ****load of times.
i just picked up the 4 game series for when the mets come here to play the dbacks... i had this marked on the calender last year hoping to see pedro pitch, but i guess im sol on that.

NJFINSFAN1
04-04-2007, 11:01 PM
Maine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man its real early, but wow!

AirMarino83
04-04-2007, 11:17 PM
yeah, really impressed by him tonite... you think any of that has to do with rick peterson??? hopefully the magic has rubbed on olie and pelfrey... i liked how the offense scored 10 in what? 3 innings... sick!

i know, i know, only 159 to go.

Boik14
04-05-2007, 12:29 AM
3-0 baby! No better way to open the season then to show the defending champs whats up!

7ip of one hit ball for the Maine man. He looked sick tonight!
Beltran - hr/4 rbi
Reyes - Hr/3 rbi

Off to ATL for friday. Hopefully the Ted is no longer our burial ground. We get Redman vs Ollie, their #5 vs Pelfrey, and Smoltz vs Glavine which should be a beauty.

Boik14
04-05-2007, 12:34 AM
yeah, really impressed by him tonite... you think any of that has to do with rick peterson??? hopefully the magic has rubbed on olie and pelfrey... i liked how the offense scored 10 in what? 3 innings... sick!

i know, i know, only 159 to go. Its at least partially due to The Jacket. Peterson unquestionably encouraged Maine to push that fastball down in the zone even if it means talking a little off it for location.

As far as Ollie and Pelfrey, read back further in this thread as I have posted various articles on Peterson's influence on both in encouraging Pelfrey to keep his fastball down (turning him into what Tim Hudson was like in Oakland) and how he re-adjusted Perez' arm slot to where it was in 2004 when he had a 2.98era/230k and led the majors in k/9ip. Not saying Perez will emulate those stats but he's started to fix the problems that led Perez to a much higher era than he should have.

The only problem I could see with Peterson's coaching mixing with perez's style of pitching is that Perez is a guy that needs to pitch to miss bats, rather then to hit bats because when he gets hit, he gets hit hard.

NJFINSFAN1
04-05-2007, 08:09 AM
You can see some of the adjustments Peterson has made with Maine, one is he bends his left knee a little more coming off the mound which helps keep the ball low.

The kid just looks like a cool customer on the mound also.
Steal of a trade!

phunwin
04-05-2007, 08:13 AM
OK, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole Wright in the #2 spot thing. I see your point, Boik...I just don't agree the Mets will produce more runs that way. But no matter, it's just yet another battle of the old-schoolers vs. the sabermetricians. And that's cool.

On another note, it felt good to see the Mets beat up Braden Looper last night, didn't it? And even better to see them maul the defending NL champs in St. Lou. (If LoDuca continues to hit this well all season, I'll happily concede defeat in the #2 hitter argument.)

phunwin
04-05-2007, 08:21 AM
You can see some of the adjustments Peterson has made with Maine, one is he bends his left knee a little more coming off the mound which helps keep the ball low.

The kid just looks like a cool customer on the mound also.
Steal of a trade!

I'm just going to say, in an effort to keep up my street cred, that I called this (http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=1974097&postcount=3).

finswin56
04-05-2007, 09:34 AM
Couldn't have asked for a better start to the season!
No doubt the Benson trade has been a boon for us. Darn near the opposite of the guy from Tampa Bay that I won't mention.

Eop05
04-05-2007, 10:26 AM
Couldn't have asked for a better start to the season!
No doubt the Benson trade has been a boon for us. Darn near the opposite of the guy from Tampa Bay that I won't mention.

The trade in which we Met fans never speak of again.

I've almost erased it completely from my memory.

phunwin
04-05-2007, 10:56 AM
The trade in which we Met fans never speak of again.

I've almost erased it completely from my memory.

Well, the Nolan Ryan trade was worse, as was the Tom Seaver trade. However, that trade has probably pulled ahead of Lenny Dykstra and Roger McDowell for Juan Samuel on the list of worst Met trades ever.

Boik14
04-05-2007, 11:39 AM
OK, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole Wright in the #2 spot thing. I see your point, Boik...I just don't agree the Mets will produce more runs that way. But no matter, it's just yet another battle of the old-schoolers vs. the sabermetricians. And that's cool.

On another note, it felt good to see the Mets beat up Braden Looper last night, didn't it? And even better to see them maul the defending NL champs in St. Lou. (If LoDuca continues to hit this well all season, I'll happily concede defeat in the #2 hitter argument.) Its all good Phil, and its even better when we're beating the snot out of Pooper Looper. :D

finswin56
04-05-2007, 01:11 PM
Its all good Phil, and its even better when we're beating the snot out of Pooper Looper. :D
:chuckle: It was killing me waiting for it to happen, but it was inevitable. Looper may indeed end up a decent starter, but you knew it would unravel eventually with his lack of experience going deep into the game.

Boik14
04-05-2007, 11:50 PM
Thought you guys may like this piece in the NY Daily News; theres a lot more then the bits im posting: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2007/04/05/2007-04-05_amazin_start_in_st_loo_an_86_flashback-1.html

ST. LOUIS - As the Mets were embarrassing the world champs last night, it was hard not to think about just such a statement made 21 years ago, when the '86 Mets gained a similar measure of revenge and used a four-game sweep of the defending NL champ Cardinals in this city to launch a world championship run.

The only difference was that Davey Johnson publicly predicted domination for that team. In these PR-conscious times, Willie Randolph has more sense of decorum, but down deep he has a similar swagger, and in the quiet of his office after last night's 10-0 victory he admitted he wasn't surprised at all by the way his Mets smacked the Cardinals around Busch Stadium for three days.

"I'm really not," he said. "I just think we're better than them. I thought it all along. I'm not taking anything away from what they did to us (last October). They handled some crunch-time situations better than us, and they got some breaks, but that's baseball. When I was with the Yankees, we used to get some of those breaks.

"All I'm saying is we didn't come here looking for revenge or anything. We just came here to say it's a new season, and maybe when it's all said and done, we'll get our rings this year. I'm just glad we started with this team because I knew our guys would be ready."

muscle979
04-06-2007, 12:44 AM
3-0 baby! No better way to open the season then to show the defending champs whats up!

7ip of one hit ball for the Maine man. He looked sick tonight!
Beltran - hr/4 rbi
Reyes - Hr/3 rbi

Off to ATL for friday. Hopefully the Ted is no longer our burial ground. We get Redman vs Ollie, their #5 vs Pelfrey, and Smoltz vs Glavine which should be a beauty.

Here's to a good game. I'll be there for Smotz vs. Glavine on saturday. I'll try not to boo your Mets too hard. Hey I think Chipper's about due for his first homer :wink: .

Seriously though, this series should be a good one. It seems Atlanta might finally have a competent bullpen.

Boik14
04-06-2007, 01:04 AM
Here's to a good game. I'll be there for Smotz vs. Glavine on saturday. I'll try not to boo your Mets too hard. Hey I think Chipper's about due for his first homer :wink: .

Seriously though, this series should be a good one. It seems Atlanta might finally have a competent bullpen. Steve Phillips actually called the braves pen the best in baseball tonight...i think hes so whipped on his days as mets gm that he thinks you guys are invincible or something (no offense, you arent, not that we are). I think your pen is good but short of great; Id take the twins, pads, a's, mets and angels off the top of my head. Soriano is a beast, and Gonzalez is good.

As far as chipper, its not at Shea so the homers will be kept to a minimum (for you guys hopefully) :)

The Glavine/Smoltz matchup should be a beauty as long as Glavine remembers how to pitch to his ex mates. Hopefully its a well played series with the mets winning 3 games :cooldude:

finswin56
04-06-2007, 08:39 AM
Steve Phillips actually called the braves pen the best in baseball tonight...i think hes so whipped on his days as mets gm that he thinks you guys are invincible or something (no offense, you arent, not that we are). I think your pen is good but short of great; Id take the twins, pads, a's, mets and angels off the top of my head. Soriano is a beast, and Gonzalez is good.

As far as chipper, its not at Shea so the homers will be kept to a minimum (for you guys hopefully) :)

The Glavine/Smoltz matchup should be a beauty as long as Glavine remembers how to pitch to his ex mates. Hopefully its a well played series with the mets winning 3 games :cooldude:FLMAO My thoughts exactly

phunwin
04-06-2007, 08:43 AM
Steve Phillips actually called the braves pen the best in baseball tonight...i think hes so whipped on his days as mets gm that he thinks you guys are invincible or something (no offense, you arent, not that we are). I think your pen is good but short of great; Id take the twins, pads, a's, mets and angels off the top of my head. Soriano is a beast, and Gonzalez is good.

That is a mighty strong bullpen that Atlanta has. They absolutely stole Soriano from the Mariners. If our bullpen was healthy and not suspended (i.e. it had Sanchez and Mota), I'd like ours better. Right now though, I think Atlanta has a better 'pen.

One other note about Phillips, and I'm sure I'm not the first to notice this, but does anyone else think he carries a SERIOUS grudge against the Mets, and he lets that bias into his commentary?


As far as chipper, its not at Shea so the homers will be kept to a minimum (for you guys hopefully) :)

The Glavine/Smoltz matchup should be a beauty as long as Glavine remembers how to pitch to his ex mates. Hopefully its a well played series with the mets winning 3 games :cooldude:

Chipper's also about due for his first injury of the season. :lol:

finswin56
04-06-2007, 09:33 AM
That is a mighty strong bullpen that Atlanta has. They absolutely stole Soriano from the Mariners. If our bullpen was healthy and not suspended (i.e. it had Sanchez and Mota), I'd like ours better. Right now though, I think Atlanta has a better 'pen.

One other note about Phillips, and I'm sure I'm not the first to notice this, but does anyone else think he carries a SERIOUS grudge against the Mets, and he lets that bias into his commentary?



Chipper's also about due for his first injury of the season. :lol:
I don't think it's over the top, but I do sense it. I keep waiting for him to toot his own horn on drafting Reyes and Wright. To his credit, he hasn't done it yet.

I'm predicting a laceration, needing stitches, on his right index finger. The cut will be caused by an "accidental" bite from his daughter Shea :evil:

AirMarino83
04-06-2007, 07:03 PM
[quote=finswin56;1061952349I keep waiting for him to toot his own horn on drafting Reyes and Wright. To his credit, he hasn't done it yet.[/quote]

at least he did something right.

Sethdaddy8
04-07-2007, 12:43 AM
Lets go Metsos!!!! kickin arse...lets keep it goin baby!!!!

WoodStrock81
04-07-2007, 12:54 AM
Well, the Nolan Ryan trade was worse, as was the Tom Seaver trade. However, that trade has probably pulled ahead of Lenny Dykstra and Roger McDowell for Juan Samuel on the list of worst Met trades ever.

The only good thing the Mets have ever done is send Nails to Philly for Juan Samuel.....;)

Boik14
04-07-2007, 01:29 AM
That is a mighty strong bullpen that Atlanta has. They absolutely stole Soriano from the Mariners. If our bullpen was healthy and not suspended (i.e. it had Sanchez and Mota), I'd like ours better. Right now though, I think Atlanta has a better 'pen.

One other note about Phillips, and I'm sure I'm not the first to notice this, but does anyone else think he carries a SERIOUS grudge against the Mets, and he lets that bias into his commentary?

Chipper's also about due for his first injury of the season. :lol: I agree they stole Soriano but lets not forget Soriano has a pretty straight fastball and though its not benitez straight hes hittable. Id like ours more then I do but break it down and you see why I like it more:

Wagner > Wickman
Heilman > Soriano
Schoenweis < Gonzalez
Feliciano >> McBride or anyone else the braves have left.
We also have depth as well with quality young players like Burgos and vets .

Phillips is definitely a biased putz. He sees what Minaya is doing now and wondering why Reyes and Wright couldnt have matured sooner or why he didnt invest more heavily in the farm. But all in all hes just terrible. Aside from letting bias affect his job he just specializes in pulling stuff out of his tail.

AirMarino83
04-07-2007, 02:03 AM
how bout olie today?
oh dont forget about jose with his 2 triples!

finswin56
04-07-2007, 08:42 AM
how bout olie today?
oh dont forget about jose with his 2 triples!
That kid's scary when he pitches to his potential.
Jose is going to make a legitimate run at the MVP this year. Last year he made everyone pay attention. Now with everyone looking at him all year, Reyes' real impact will be seen.

Ronnie Bass
04-07-2007, 12:23 PM
The trade in which we Met fans never speak of again.

I've almost erased it completely from my memory.
I'm totally over the Kazmir trade, because the way I look at it if we never made that trade there is a chance we would have never cleaned house and brought in Omar and we wouldn't be where we are now.

mixmaster_matt
04-07-2007, 01:48 PM
Yes I do...and I go to plenty of them as well. This year I did a 7 game plan and i bought tix for 5 other games so far. I try and get to 12-15 a year but I try and tape the ones I wont be able to to watch immediately because of work but also because I like to disect the things our players are doing well/not doing well.

Like so far I noticed, before Keith Hernandez said it in the postgame, that reyes isnt swinging at the bad breaking pitches he always swung at in the past. Let's hope that keeps up. :wink:

Hey Boik, which package did you get? I got the divison rivals package. Seemed like a good deal, and those upper box seats aren't too bad.

Well I am late to this thread this year. You gotta love what you see so far, with strong pitching and the bats are alive. I am happy and enthusiastic about the mets, but I also realize it is only game 5 today. But to get these road wins early on definitely helps. It is the first time ever a mets team has started the season 4-0 on the road to open a season. Lets see what the genius glavine does today!

Roman529
04-07-2007, 01:55 PM
Hey Boik, which package did you get? I got the divison rivals package. Seemed like a good deal, and those upper box seats aren't too bad.

Well I am late to this thread this year. You gotta love what you see so far, with strong pitching and the bats are alive. I am happy and enthusiastic about the mets, but I also realize it is only game 5 today. But to get these road wins early on definitely helps. It is the first time ever a mets team has started the season 4-0 on the road to open a season. Lets see what the genius glavine does today!

4-0. :tantrum: It's ok...I like when the Braves lose.

finswin56
04-07-2007, 02:05 PM
I'm totally over the Kazmir trade, because the way I look at it if we never made that trade there is a chance we would have never cleaned house and brought in Omar and we wouldn't be where we are now.
This is unfortunately true, much like our experience with Wanny in Miami.

Ray Finkle
04-07-2007, 02:28 PM
I've never been a big Omar fan, however I loved the Perez and Hernandez for Nady trade at the time and love it even more now. Yes I know it's only one game but Perez is still under 25 years old I believe and left handed. If Perez can ever be the pitcher he was in 2004 the Mets future rotation of him, Maine, Pelfrey and Humber could be pretty scary.

And man I wish my team had Reyes and Wright in my infield. I love watching these guys play everyday.

MikeO
04-07-2007, 02:38 PM
The Mets are an AMERICAN LEAGUE built-style team playing in the NL. They are gonna score a ton of runs, win a ton of games, and unless their pitching totally craps the bed they will be playing in the World Series.

Not 1 team in the NL is even close to them talent wise. And depth wise

phunwin
04-07-2007, 03:23 PM
how bout olie today?
oh dont forget about jose with his 2 triples!

I'm pretty sure it was Barry Bonds who said that Perez had some of the best stuff he'd ever seen from a lefthander. That's pretty good authority.

If Perez continues to maintain a consistent release point, keep his fingers on top of the ball, and keep his head in the game, he has the talent to win 20 games and strike out 200 guys. And almost as importantly, to finally vindicate The Jacket for the "I can straighten out Victor Zambrano in 10 minutes" comment. If Peterson brings back the old Oliver Perez, he deserves a spot in the Leo Mazzone Hall of Fame for pitching coaches.

Man, he looked great last night. Threw one lousy pitch all night, the 2-0 fastball to Francoeur that Mr. .280 OBP knocked over the fence. Still, I want to see Ollie string together a few good starts before I get too excited. If he's working on an ERA around 3 heading into the All-Star break, I'll be a believer. He's been too screwed up for too long for me to be really optimistic at this point.

phunwin
04-07-2007, 03:25 PM
I'm totally over the Kazmir trade, because the way I look at it if we never made that trade there is a chance we would have never cleaned house and brought in Omar and we wouldn't be where we are now.

I won't be over it until Kazmir signs a 5 year contract with the Mets about 3 or 4 years from now, when he hits free agency.

Rocky Raccoon
04-07-2007, 06:19 PM
Perez was fantastic last night.

As for today's game...2 really bad errors by the Mets that opened the door for the Braves. 5-2 Atlanta after 7.