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jim1
02-01-2007, 11:11 AM
I confess, the issue of drafing Levi Brown at #9 confuses me. During his college career the word has been great OT, but does he have the feet and quickness for LT? If we didn't already have Vernon Carey solidified at RT the issue would be simpler in my opinion- drafting Brown wouldn't be a problem. He's a quality tackle and just move him to the right side if there's an issue. But isn't that quite a big risk considering RT is in Carey's capable hands?

Reports were conflicting at the senior bowl, too. Dominating most of the time, but some problems with speed rushers. If he can't play LT in the pros, what does he play for us, guard? Also, Saban called Alabi an up and coming star, for what that's worth. Does anyone have info on Alabi's progress?

If Brown in fact can't play LT and any number of WR's or defensive players become studs, that will be pretty depressing. Every pick entails a risk for sure, but the whole issue of Brown as a LT and the Alabi situation has me at a loss. Opinions are welcome.

p.s. mods please move this to the draft forum.

PhinsRock
02-01-2007, 11:19 AM
I'm just as in the dark as you are, Levi was said to dominate but others felt he had problems at the Sr. Bowl. Guess we'll just have to leave it to Cam, Randy and Houck whether they believe in him. I sure like his leadership skills from things I've seen about him. I hope we do draft Levi, but have to trust the GM and coaches on this one. Seems if he has the skills to dominate, he could be taught by Houck how to handle the power/speed rushers. He certainly has the physical talent, maybe he just needs NFL-level physical strength training.

PHINishinStrong
02-01-2007, 11:19 AM
Thats what they said about Marcus Mcneal last year and look at the stud he came out to be... I think he played extremely well in the Senior Bowl, there wasnt many negatives. I agree he has to improve his quickness but you have to solidify the LT position sometime and hes the next best thing after Joe Thomas. Other than that there are other pretty good free agents we can try to pick up. Someone like Leonard Davis. He was the Cards best Olineman ,which isnt saying much, and hes a good pass blocker.

PHINishinStrong
02-01-2007, 11:27 AM
Whoever said that was probably watching Ugoh on the other side of the ball flop. I have the senior bowl Tivoed and he definitely did not have problems. He has that Rex Hadnot Character about him. Hes a mean punishing defender on the run. Hes not an elite pass blocker but hes definitely more than adequate. I dont think we should take him at #9 though. If we want this guy we should try and trade down a couple spots and get more out of our pick and still snag him later.

MrEd
02-01-2007, 11:29 AM
I confess, the issue of drafing Levi Brown at #9 confuses me. During his college career the word has been great OT, but does he have the feet and quickness for LT? If we didn't already have Vernon Carey solidified at RT the issue would be simpler in my opinion- drafting Brown wouldn't be a problem. He's a quality tackle and just move him to the right side if there's an issue. But isn't that quite a big risk considering RT is in Carey's capable hands?

Reports were conflicting at the senior bowl, too. Dominating most of the time, but some problems with speed rushers. If he can't play LT in the pros, what does he play for us, guard? Also, Saban called Alabi an up and coming star, for what that's worth. Does anyone have info on Alabi's progress?

If Brown in fact can't play LT and any number of WR's or defensive players become studs, that will be pretty depressing. Every pick entails a risk for sure, but the whole issue of Brown as a LT and the Alabi situation has me at a loss. Opinions are welcome.

p.s. mods please move this to the draft forum.


This is interesting. I've read the same things. This is why some think that some here that are on the draft Brown bandwagon are merely "subconsciously" glorifying the guy's play because of the team's desperation for a new LT.

Does Brown have any better of potential at LT than Shelton, Alabi, or even Toledo, who's played the position as well? I dont think Brown is our sure #9 pick. Gaines Adams, Tedd Ginn Jr, and either Reggie Nelson or Laron Landry are more probabilities to me...

tmny99
02-01-2007, 11:34 AM
This is interesting. I've read the same things. This is why some think that some here that are on the draft Brown bandwagon are merely "subconsciously" glorifying the guy's play because of the team's desperation for a new LT.

Does Brown have any better of potential at LT than Shelton, Alabi, or even Toledo, who's played the position as well? I dont think Brown is our sure #9 pick. Gaines Adams, Tedd Ginn Jr, and either Reggie Nelson or Laron Landry are more probabilities to me...

Agreed...you only take LTs that early in the first if they are franchise LTs. People like Ogden, Walter Jones, etc. This year that franchise LT is Joe Thomas who will certainly be gone before our pick. I think you go with a defensive player that can contribute immediately or Ginn or Quinn (if available) if you go offense.

MrEd
02-01-2007, 11:35 AM
Whoever said that was probably watching Ugoh on the other side of the ball flop. I have the senior bowl Tivoed and he definitely did not have problems. He has that Rex Hadnot Character about him. Hes a mean punishing defender on the run. Hes not an elite pass blocker but hes definitely more than adequate. I dont think we should take him at #9 though. If we want this guy we should try and trade down a couple spots and get more out of our pick and still snag him later.

Watch the game again. Brown did struggle in the middle of the 1st quarter. He was beat inside about 2 or 3 times all pretty consequetively.

Finsfan79
02-01-2007, 02:12 PM
Depends on whom you speak to but most scouts seem to believe after the senior bowl that he can be a left tackle in the NFL. If he can be a left tackle in the NFL then his value is a top 15 pick because of his athletic ability and sheer size.

Now what would houck be able to do with him is another question.

As for Toldeo, he was projected as a guard and should remain inside. Alabai is more of a project for a backup filler lineman and Shelton is a 3 times failed LT.

So yes the team has a desperate need at LT. Now it all depends whom is there at number 9 really.
Jamaal Anderson or Gaines Adams? you take those two. The yare elite talents and steals there.
Quinn? Sure whatever if you feel the need for a QB.

I would sure as heck not take Ginn inside of the top 15 picks and I wouldnt touch safety inside of the top 10 picks though.

I think alot also has to do with Mueller and Cameron stating build from within outwards.

phins3454
02-01-2007, 02:21 PM
He would be a reach for the 9th pick

Finsfan79
02-01-2007, 02:22 PM
He would be a reach for the 9th pick

depends upon whom you ask currently. But I think is best value is 12-15 picks.

It all depends upon whom slips and whom doesnt and the combine there is alot of time left for things to change.

Venez1284
02-01-2007, 02:42 PM
I go to Penn State and have watched every single game of his college career. This season working with 4 new offensive lineman, it was clear that the best runs were ones that went right behind Brown. He was the one constant on that line this year. He leads by example and has always been one of the top character guys on this team. People can dissect every little thing about him all they want, he definitely has the potential to be very good. He's 6'7'' and 320, perfect frame for LT and light on his feet. His footwork can always improve. Go ahead and critique him on a week at the Senior Bowl if you want, this is an inexact science. All I'm saying is would you rather try and develop this guy or have another year with McIntosh?

On a side note, Posluszny being a third rounder is amazing to me. Again its all about the scouts salivating over athletic ability and ignoring the fact that he is a heady, tough, smart, instinctive and oh by the way, hes no slouch in the athletic department either. He'll be this years DeMeco Ryans, the guy who falls for no reason.

jim1
02-01-2007, 04:17 PM
I go to Penn State and have watched every single game of his college career. This season working with 4 new offensive lineman, it was clear that the best runs were ones that went right behind Brown. He was the one constant on that line this year. He leads by example and has always been one of the top character guys on this team. People can dissect every little thing about him all they want, he definitely has the potential to be very good. He's 6'7'' and 320, perfect frame for LT and light on his feet. His footwork can always improve. Go ahead and critique him on a week at the Senior Bowl if you want, this is an inexact science. All I'm saying is would you rather try and develop this guy or have another year with McIntosh?

On a side note, Posluszny being a third rounder is amazing to me. Again its all about the scouts salivating over athletic ability and ignoring the fact that he is a heady, tough, smart, instinctive and oh by the way, hes no slouch in the athletic department either. He'll be this years DeMeco Ryans, the guy who falls for no reason.


Good analysis, thx.

alen1
02-01-2007, 04:24 PM
I go to Penn State and have watched every single game of his college career. This season working with 4 new offensive lineman, it was clear that the best runs were ones that went right behind Brown. He was the one constant on that line this year. He leads by example and has always been one of the top character guys on this team. People can dissect every little thing about him all they want, he definitely has the potential to be very good. He's 6'7'' and 320, perfect frame for LT and light on his feet. His footwork can always improve. Go ahead and critique him on a week at the Senior Bowl if you want, this is an inexact science. All I'm saying is would you rather try and develop this guy or have another year with McIntosh?

On a side note, Posluszny being a third rounder is amazing to me. Again its all about the scouts salivating over athletic ability and ignoring the fact that he is a heady, tough, smart, instinctive and oh by the way, hes no slouch in the athletic department either. He'll be this years DeMeco Ryans, the guy who falls for no reason.

3rd round for posluzny? AMAZING .... that man was a beast and hes a two time winner of the top linebacker... i still belive hes a top 15-20 pick. its amazing how many opinions change in one year .... das why i hate those scouts.

Finfan53
02-01-2007, 04:34 PM
I'd be happy with either....but much happier with Posluszny. He's much more in the mold of a zach thomas in terms of work ethic, character, etc. Very instinctive player.....much rather trade down and get Poz. I think Levi Brown will improve greatly with his best football ahead of him....

zonk4ever
02-01-2007, 05:25 PM
Drafting a DL @ 9 makes little sense since we've invested in so many of them in the Saban era. Roth, the 2 Wrights, Evans, Vickerson - that's 5. How many promising LT'S do we have? If Alabi couldn't beat out McIntosh, he ain't got it! OLB could be an upgrade over Spraggins. The secondary's a mess but you have to give J. Allen another year, Yeremiah shows promise, Daniels was serviceable as a rookie and was hurt last year, Shirdonya Mitchell, W.Allen, could be better with another year together as a unit.

You have to believe Brown @ LT would have to be an immediate starter and upgrade over McIntosh. Receivers can be addressed later in ther draft. It also seems like "high priced / profile receivers" are always complaining and whining on every team and become distractions as far as team chemistry goes. And that's why I feel, Bellichick unloaded them all and he almost pulled it off again this tear. :D

jim1
02-02-2007, 02:34 PM
Here's what Football's Future had to say:


Levi Brown looks like an excellent right tackle prospect. He has the strong frame, and plays with very good power in the running game. He can dominate at the point of attack, and move defenders off the line. Brown will also finish off run plays by driving his man into the ground. He also shows the ability to keep the defender in front of him in pass protection. Brown may bring quite a bit of versatility. He’s played left tackle in college, and may be able to play there in the NFL. His best spot looks like RT, and his ability as a run blocker could allow him to play inside at guard as well.
Judging him as the left tackle spot he has played in college, Brown may lack the athleticism and agility to be a top notch left tackle at the next level. He may be able to hold his own, but it is something he will have to prove once drafted. As a right tackle however, he appears to be what everyone looks for at the position. Brown is one of the top senior lineman available for the draft. He may not project the best as the premium left tackle position, but as a right tackle, he may be the best available. He is a legitimate first round talent, and a solid senior season will only cement that position.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/levi_brown.html

finfan54
02-03-2007, 01:29 PM
This is interesting. I've read the same things. This is why some think that some here that are on the draft Brown bandwagon are merely "subconsciously" glorifying the guy's play because of the team's desperation for a new LT.

Does Brown have any better of potential at LT than Shelton, Alabi, or even Toledo, who's played the position as well? I dont think Brown is our sure #9 pick. Gaines Adams, Tedd Ginn Jr, and either Reggie Nelson or Laron Landry are more probabilities to me...


I am one of those who like Brown. I watched the Senior Bowl twice and watched with intent on Brown.

here is the deal. He dominated the LSU guy and locked on him. What they say about him locking on someone its all over is true IMO. He is quick out of his stance and does not seem to make mistakes going offsides in the process which is something that gets overlooked alot. It means he is aware of the snap count everytime and is quick to lock on.

The problem was when the South team snuck in the DE from Texas and his first play, he stunned Brown and blew him backwards and killed the QB. The next play, he went quickly inside on him (if this were JT, the Qb would have been killed again). From that point on, Brown was back on track.

I think that people should consider that even though Joe Thomas is the guy at LT, he too makes mistakes from time to time. I think Brown can be a true LT but it takes a good OL coach in order to make him great. I think we have that in Houck. I think practicing against JT all day will help his developement.

he has all the tools and you have to remember, he has not played the position long, so for him to be here at this point, and starting playing football at the ninth grade, and then being a defensive player at Penn st. then moved to LT says alot. Those who would deny Brown as a LT are not looking at the big picture to me. I remember a few years ago, Max Starx completely looked the part at RT and people said he was a bust. The Steelers got him at the end of round one and he has played great from day one. Levi Brown is similar to me at LT. He passes the eyeball test for sure. Has all the tools, just needs to finish the job by getting his mits on speed rushers and change of pace players. I think JT would help him out there.

finfan54
02-03-2007, 01:35 PM
He would be a reach for the 9th pick


compared to other talent in the #9 pick range yes, but if you trade down few spots and take him would be very nice. Brown is not overrated or underrated. He is right where most have him anywaheres from 12-20.

DonShula84
02-03-2007, 04:17 PM
I'm not convinced that he worth taking at 9 either. To take an olineman in the top 10 he had better be a sure thing and Brown doesnt seem to be. Atleast not a sure thing at LT. I've been hoping someone could convince me that he's worth taking but I havent seen it yet. So if he is the pick, I'll be extremely disappointed.