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Dj Shoj
02-01-2007, 12:50 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!

emocomputerjock
02-01-2007, 12:54 PM
I don't think there's any possible way for you to make the headline question more loaded or inflammatory. Prepare yourself - incoming flamewar.

Crypt Keeper
02-01-2007, 01:01 PM
Chambers will not be traded this offseason. Is he always going to be a Dolphin? Time will tell, but for now, yes he will remain a Dolphin.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 01:03 PM
Unfortunately Chambers is a Dolphin for life...

NYinBostonFin
02-01-2007, 01:14 PM
For at least one more year he will be a phin.

But honestly, there was no need to put the thread title like that. Its just looking for trouble.

finserg
02-01-2007, 01:17 PM
If he does nothing again this year i think he will be out....Everyone has 1 bad year or 2 ,3, or 4 :huh:

wonderl33t
02-01-2007, 01:18 PM
So it's just a coincidence that Chambers' Pro Bowl year was the year we've had our best QB since Marino (Frerrotte)? Chambers has had CRAP for QBs man...

Tbone13tx
02-01-2007, 01:37 PM
Chris Chambers leads the league every year in drops..My bad, he was second this year to Terrel Owens..You have to throw a third more passes to Chambers for him to get the same production as other wide outs!
I saw a write up on it before and it had numbers of catchable balls compared to production and Chris Chambers was worst in the league for like three seasons..If anybody has this article please post it. The only wide out we should keep is Welker and Hagan! Booker disappears in most games and Hagan has the Chris Chambers disease, but he deserves a chance to turn it around because he is young!
I vote:
Round 1...Take best DE available (Taylor not getting any younger)
Round 2 and 3...take WRs
Let Ricky come back and reunite Randy Moss with Cpep for one year!

PHINishinStrong
02-01-2007, 01:37 PM
So it's just a coincidence that Chambers' Pro Bowl year was the year we've had our best QB since Marino (Frerrotte)? Chambers has had CRAP for QBs man...

Yeah i guess QBs are the reason he doesnt catch the ball when it hits his hands...

Dj Shoj
02-01-2007, 01:50 PM
Chris Chambers leads the league every year in drops..My bad, he was second this year to Terrel Owens..You have to throw a third more passes to Chambers for him to get the same production as other wide outs!
I saw a write up on it before and it had numbers of catchable balls compared to production and Chris Chambers was worst in the league for like three seasons..If anybody has this article please post it. The only wide out we should keep is Welker and Hagan! Booker disappears in most games and Hagan has the Chris Chambers disease, but he deserves a chance to turn it around because he is young!
I vote:
Round 1...Take best DE available (Taylor not getting any younger)
Round 2 and 3...take WRs
Let Ricky come back and reunite Randy Moss with Cpep for one year!

I agree 100000%

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 01:56 PM
Chambers needs to be traded or cut not only for his poor performance last year but also to send a message to the team that underachieving is unacceptable.

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:00 PM
I don't think there's any possible way for you to make the headline question more loaded or inflammatory. Prepare yourself - incoming flamewar.

Very true...We have absolutely no idea how he will perform before he retires so to say we are "stuck" with him until then is comlpletely off the mark

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:01 PM
Chambers needs to be traded or cut not only for his poor performance last year but also to send a message to the team that underachieving is unacceptable.

Oh yeah great message. Have a bad year and you're outta here.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:01 PM
Maybe Chris Chambers logs on to Finheaven, reads these posts, sees how most Phins fans are tired of him being an underachieving - over paid WR. Walks into Coach Cameron's office and demands a trade... I can hope right?

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 02:02 PM
Oh yeah great message. Have a bad year and you're outta here.

More like 5 bad years and 1 average year, but the point remains the same.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:02 PM
Oh yeah great message. Have a bad year and you're outta here.

People keep saying 1 bad year.... He had 1 Probowl year and in that year, he had a good 3 game span... He is not that good people

tcdrover
02-01-2007, 02:03 PM
Chambers does some things well, there's just lots of things he doesn't do well...:evil:

Put him in the slot ALL the time...

Crypt Keeper
02-01-2007, 02:04 PM
More like 5 bad years and 1 average year, but the point remains the same.
Average year? That don't send players who have "average" years to the Pro Bowl.

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:05 PM
More like 5 bad years and 1 average year, but the point remains the same.
5 bad years? Okay.

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:07 PM
People keep saying 1 bad year.... He had 1 Probowl year and in that year, he had a good 3 game span... He is not that good people
So what you are saying is...if a player doesn't make the Pro Bowl every year, then they are not good?

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:07 PM
..:: I've posted this before, Just want people to ACTUALLY see the numbers -- Don't let the word "PROBOWL" mean more than it should ::..

Since production is what really matters and that "magical" 2005 season is held in such regard - I decided to break down game by game to show what he REALLY did that season.

#1: Broncos: 5 Rec. / 40 Yards. / 0 TDs
#2: Jets: 3 Rec. / 21 Yards. / 0 TDs
#3: Panthers: 6 Rec. / 93 Yards. / 1 TDs
#4: Bills: 4 Rec. / 60 Yards. / 0 TDs
#5: Bucs: 3 Rec. / 50 Yards. / 0 TDs
#6: Chiefs: 2 Rec. / 88 Yards. / 1 TDs
#7: Saints: 4 Rec. / 25 Yards. / 1 TDs
#8: Falcons: 3 Rec. / 40 Yards. / 0 TDs
#9: Patriots: 6 Rec. / 69 Yards. / 2 TDs
#10: Browns: 3 Rec. / 12 Yards. / 0 TDs
#11: Raiders: 6 Rec. / 101 Yards. / 0 TDs
#12: Bills: 15 Rec. / 238 Yards. / 1 TDs
#13: Chargers: 8 Rec. / 121 Yards. / 2 TDs
#14: Jets: 4 Rec. / 34 Yards. / 1 TDs
#15: Titans: 5 Rec. / 51 Yards. / 2 TDs
#16: Patriots: 5 Rec. / 75 Yards. / 0 TDs


From weeks 1 to 10, Chris had: 39 Rec. / 498 Yards. / 5 TDs.
He Averaged 3.9 Rec. / 49.8 Yards. / .5 TDs a game.

From weeks 11 to 13, Chris had: 29 Rec. / 460 Yards. / 3 TDs.
He Averaged 9.6 Rec. / 153.3 Yards. / 1 TDs a game.

From weeks 14 to 16, Chris had: 14 Rec. / 160 Yards. / 3 TDs.
He Averaged 4.6 Rec. / 53.3 Yards. / 1 TDs a game.

Weeks 1-10 and 14 to 16, Chris had: 53 Rec. / 658 Yards. / 8 TDs.
He Averaged 4.07 Rec. / 50.6 Yards. / .6 TDs a game.

Basically, people hold Chambers in high regards here in Miami because he had a 3 game span where he showed glimpses. What has he done the other 5+ years here in Miami to have us think this seson will change? People will continue to say "Look at the QBs he's played with". Well he managed to rack up some nice numbers in that 3 game span with Gus Frerotte.

It's time to cut our ties with Chris. They probably won't trade him but I think a change of scenery would be good for him and the Dolphins. I would offer Chris to the Raiders for either Jerry Porter or Randy Moss straight up. People on this forum love to question other people's loyalty to the Dolphins for being negative on a player. I think am being very loyal to the Dolphins. I don't put ANYONE above the team. I would be all for trading Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor tomorrow if it benefitted the team. The Dolphins have gone 4-12, 9-7 and 6-10 the last 3 years and have missed the playoffs for the last 5. It's time to make changes on this team and start cutting ties with over-paid under achievers. If Miami doesn't trade Chambers and he has a fantastic year - I will gladly eat my crow with a big smile on my face...

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:11 PM
People keep saying 1 bad year.... He had 1 Probowl year and in that year, he had a good 3 game span... He is not that good people

He had the same 2005 campaing that Holt, Johnson and smith all had in 2006...A good few game span and the rest junk...Look at the stats

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:13 PM
..:: I've posted this before, Just want people to ACTUALLY see the numbers -- Don't let the word "PROBOWL" mean more than it should ::..

Since production is what really matters and that "magical" 2005 season is held in such regard - I decided to break down game by game to show what he REALLY did that season.

#1: Broncos: 5 Rec. / 40 Yards. / 0 TDs
#2: Jets: 3 Rec. / 21 Yards. / 0 TDs
#3: Panthers: 6 Rec. / 93 Yards. / 1 TDs
#4: Bills: 4 Rec. / 60 Yards. / 0 TDs
#5: Bucs: 3 Rec. / 50 Yards. / 0 TDs
#6: Chiefs: 2 Rec. / 88 Yards. / 1 TDs
#7: Saints: 4 Rec. / 25 Yards. / 1 TDs
#8: Falcons: 3 Rec. / 40 Yards. / 0 TDs
#9: Patriots: 6 Rec. / 69 Yards. / 2 TDs
#10: Browns: 3 Rec. / 12 Yards. / 0 TDs
#11: Raiders: 6 Rec. / 101 Yards. / 0 TDs
#12: Bills: 15 Rec. / 238 Yards. / 1 TDs
#13: Chargers: 8 Rec. / 121 Yards. / 2 TDs
#14: Jets: 4 Rec. / 34 Yards. / 1 TDs
#15: Titans: 5 Rec. / 51 Yards. / 2 TDs
#16: Patriots: 5 Rec. / 75 Yards. / 0 TDs


From weeks 1 to 10, Chris had: 39 Rec. / 498 Yards. / 5 TDs.
He Averaged 3.9 Rec. / 49.8 Yards. / .5 TDs a game.

From weeks 11 to 13, Chris had: 29 Rec. / 460 Yards. / 3 TDs.
He Averaged 9.6 Rec. / 153.3 Yards. / 1 TDs a game.

From weeks 14 to 16, Chris had: 14 Rec. / 160 Yards. / 3 TDs.
He Averaged 4.6 Rec. / 53.3 Yards. / 1 TDs a game.

Weeks 1-10 and 14 to 16, Chris had: 53 Rec. / 658 Yards. / 8 TDs.
He Averaged 4.07 Rec. / 50.6 Yards. / .6 TDs a game.

Basically, people hold Chambers in high regards here in Miami because he had a 3 game span where he showed glimpses. What has he done the other 5+ years here in Miami to have us think this seson will change? People will continue to say "Look at the QBs he's played with". Well he managed to rack up some nice numbers in that 3 game span with Gus Frerotte.

It's time to cut our ties with Chris. They probably won't trade him but I think a change of scenery would be good for him and the Dolphins. I would offer Chris to the Raiders for either Jerry Porter or Randy Moss straight up. People on this forum love to question other people's loyalty to the Dolphins for being negative on a player. I think am being very loyal to the Dolphins. I don't put ANYONE above the team. I would be all for trading Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor tomorrow if it benefitted the team. The Dolphins have gone 4-12, 9-7 and 6-10 the last 3 years and have missed the playoffs for the last 5. It's time to make changes on this team and start cutting ties with over-paid under achievers. If Miami doesn't trade Chambers and he has a fantastic year - I will gladly eat my crow with a big smile on my face...

How about in 2004 when he led the AFC in TD catches with 11?

Dj Shoj
02-01-2007, 02:15 PM
Maybe Chris Chambers logs on to Finheaven, reads these posts, sees how most Phins fans are tired of him being an underachieving - over paid WR. Walks into Coach Cameron's office and demands a trade... I can hope right?

You can only hope for that type of shyt!:evil:

elandre
02-01-2007, 02:15 PM
More like 5 bad years and 1 average year, but the point remains the same.
YUP! YUP!

Ill trade his a** for a 2nd anyday of the week :D

FINdestructible
02-01-2007, 02:19 PM
At least one more year with the Fins. Let's see what he can do under Cam.

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:19 PM
..:: I've posted this before, Just want people to ACTUALLY see the numbers -- Don't let the word "PROBOWL" mean more than it should ::..

Since production is what really matters and that "magical" 2005 season is held in such regard - I decided to break down game by game to show what he REALLY did that season.

#1: Broncos: 5 Rec. / 40 Yards. / 0 TDs
#2: Jets: 3 Rec. / 21 Yards. / 0 TDs
#3: Panthers: 6 Rec. / 93 Yards. / 1 TDs
#4: Bills: 4 Rec. / 60 Yards. / 0 TDs
#5: Bucs: 3 Rec. / 50 Yards. / 0 TDs
#6: Chiefs: 2 Rec. / 88 Yards. / 1 TDs
#7: Saints: 4 Rec. / 25 Yards. / 1 TDs
#8: Falcons: 3 Rec. / 40 Yards. / 0 TDs
#9: Patriots: 6 Rec. / 69 Yards. / 2 TDs
#10: Browns: 3 Rec. / 12 Yards. / 0 TDs
#11: Raiders: 6 Rec. / 101 Yards. / 0 TDs
#12: Bills: 15 Rec. / 238 Yards. / 1 TDs
#13: Chargers: 8 Rec. / 121 Yards. / 2 TDs
#14: Jets: 4 Rec. / 34 Yards. / 1 TDs
#15: Titans: 5 Rec. / 51 Yards. / 2 TDs
#16: Patriots: 5 Rec. / 75 Yards. / 0 TDs


From weeks 1 to 10, Chris had: 39 Rec. / 498 Yards. / 5 TDs.
He Averaged 3.9 Rec. / 49.8 Yards. / .5 TDs a game.

From weeks 11 to 13, Chris had: 29 Rec. / 460 Yards. / 3 TDs.
He Averaged 9.6 Rec. / 153.3 Yards. / 1 TDs a game.

From weeks 14 to 16, Chris had: 14 Rec. / 160 Yards. / 3 TDs.
He Averaged 4.6 Rec. / 53.3 Yards. / 1 TDs a game.

Weeks 1-10 and 14 to 16, Chris had: 53 Rec. / 658 Yards. / 8 TDs.
He Averaged 4.07 Rec. / 50.6 Yards. / .6 TDs a game.

Basically, people hold Chambers in high regards here in Miami because he had a 3 game span where he showed glimpses. What has he done the other 5+ years here in Miami to have us think this seson will change? People will continue to say "Look at the QBs he's played with". Well he managed to rack up some nice numbers in that 3 game span with Gus Frerotte.

It's time to cut our ties with Chris. They probably won't trade him but I think a change of scenery would be good for him and the Dolphins. I would offer Chris to the Raiders for either Jerry Porter or Randy Moss straight up. People on this forum love to question other people's loyalty to the Dolphins for being negative on a player. I think am being very loyal to the Dolphins. I don't put ANYONE above the team. I would be all for trading Zach Thomas and Jason Taylor tomorrow if it benefitted the team. The Dolphins have gone 4-12, 9-7 and 6-10 the last 3 years and have missed the playoffs for the last 5. It's time to make changes on this team and start cutting ties with over-paid under achievers. If Miami doesn't trade Chambers and he has a fantastic year - I will gladly eat my crow with a big smile on my face...

You can put up all the stats you want on any player and they will still only show one part of the story and not the whole.
You want to get rid of Chambers and bring in Porter and Moss. Why? Moss basically quit on the Raiders and Porter just well...quit playing. One of the reason he was suspended by the team.
I don't question anyone's loyalty, just their rationale.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:19 PM
How about in 2004 when he led the AFC in TD catches with 11?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

...::: Chris Chambers 2004 Season Stats :::...

15 Games / 69 Rec. / 898 Yards / 13.0 Yards Per / 7 TD

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:20 PM
He's on YES Network right now.... DEMAND A TRADE CHRIS... C'MON

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:23 PM
You can put up all the stats you want on any player and they will still only show one part of the story and not the whole.
You want to get rid of Chambers and bring in Porter and Moss. Why? Moss basically quit on the Raiders and Porter just well...quit playing. One of the reason he was suspended by the team.
I don't question anyone's loyalty, just their rationale.

I didn't question his loyalty. I question his productivity. I think he lacks concentration at times... I really don't know what the problem is with him - All I know is he hasn't produced ESPECIALLY at his price tag...

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:23 PM
YUP! YUP!

Ill trade his a** for a 2nd anyday of the week :D

If we were to trade him i think thats what we could get, and that would be a total loss because thats where we picked him...But to say he is as horrible as this post says he is is off the mark

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:28 PM
I didn't question his loyalty. I question his productivity. I think he lacks concentration at times... I really don't know what the problem is with him - All I know is he hasn't produced ESPECIALLY at his price tag...
The loyalty/rationale question wasn't in regards to Chambers but to posters on this board.
I agree that Chambers has dropped a few he should have caught but so does every receiver whom has ever played the game.
Before last year, Chamber's price tag wasn't an issue because he was still playing under his rookie contract.

umpalu
02-01-2007, 02:29 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!

flukie hahahahahahahahaha
stuck hahahahahahahahahaha

let me ask u this, on a scale of 1 to 100 (100 being the heighest) what is your football knowledge?

Chambers is a perfect slot receiver. If u use a person wrong then they will not preform. You don't see JT trying to be QB. You dont see Ronnie Brown Trying to be a nose tackle. Its the same thing. If you play out of your position you will be no good. Look how JT has preformed since being used right. He went from a star to now being a god. Put chambers in the slot and give us a legit deep threat and he will be pro bowl again. He wont go from star to god but he will go from average to star IMO. You can't hate the man because they paid him based on his preformance in the position he is supposed to be in then move him. That is managements fault, not his.

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:31 PM
:confused: :confused: :confused:

...::: Chris Chambers 2004 Season Stats :::...

15 Games / 69 Rec. / 898 Yards / 13.0 Yards Per / 7 TD

2003..my bad..im sure you could have figured that out on your own though seeing you know so much about chambers

dlockz
02-01-2007, 02:32 PM
More like 5 bad years and 1 average year, but the point remains the same.


a pro bowl year is not an average year. Last year was his really first bad year.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:33 PM
flukie hahahahahahahahaha
stuck hahahahahahahahahaha

let me ask u this, on a scale of 1 to 100 (100 being the heighest) what is your football knowledge?

Chambers is a perfect slot receiver. If u use a person wrong then they will not preform. You don't see JT trying to be QB. You dont see Ronnie Brown Trying to be a nose tackle. Its the same thing. If you play out of your position you will be no good. Look how JT has preformed since being used right. He went from a star to now being a god. Put chambers in the slot and give us a legit deep threat and he will be pro bowl again. He wont go from star to god but he will go from average to star IMO. You can't hate the man because they paid him based on his preformance in the position he is supposed to be in then move him. That is managements fault, not his.

You are comparing Chambers playing the wideout position instead of slot receiver to JT playing QB??? Why do you think he can't be "legit deep threat"? He's got speed, size, hands... The only thing he lacks is production...

Crunkcore
02-01-2007, 02:35 PM
At least one more year with the Fins. Let's see what he can do under Cam.

Agreed.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:36 PM
2003..my bad..im sure you could have figured that out on your own though seeing you know so much about chambers

We're in 2007... You want me to go back to 2003 and use those numbers as a gauge to his production?

Plus, using TDs as a barometer is misleading. Marion Barber of the Cowboys scored a lot of TDs this season and I don't think he is in consideration for a top back. The fade pattern to Chambers was once a very popular play for Miami....

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 02:37 PM
a pro bowl year is not an average year. Last year was his really first bad year.

Sure it was man he needed 1/3 more attempts than any other reciever to break 1000 Yards. That's average at best. He got into the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl over that fluke of a game he had against the Bills not over his performance throughout the year.

Dj Shoj
02-01-2007, 02:37 PM
flukie hahahahahahahahaha
stuck hahahahahahahahahaha

let me ask u this, on a scale of 1 to 100 (100 being the heighest) what is your football knowledge?

Chambers is a perfect slot receiver. If u use a person wrong then they will not preform. You don't see JT trying to be QB. You dont see Ronnie Brown Trying to be a nose tackle. Its the same thing. If you play out of your position you will be no good. Look how JT has preformed since being used right. He went from a star to now being a god. Put chambers in the slot and give us a legit deep threat and he will be pro bowl again. He wont go from star to god but he will go from average to star IMO. You can't hate the man because they paid him based on his preformance in the position he is supposed to be in then move him. That is managements fault, not his.

football knowledge I'll say 89% as far as the history of the game but I dont think you need to know much to notice inconsistensy over 5 years.

haha, know let me ask u this how many more chances are you willing to give chambers to prove everybody wrong?:fire:

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:37 PM
You are comparing Chambers playing the wideout position instead of slot receiver to JT playing QB??? Why do you think he can't be "legit deep threat"? He's got speed, size, hands... The only thing he lacks is production...

Well this post makes no sense at all...Recievers can play slot, DE cannot play QB. So exactly how are you comparing a reciever playing their position (slot) to a DE playing QB...And yes, the slot is his strongest position. Im very sure his numbers wuold have been much better had we played him from the slot all year

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:41 PM
We're in 2007... You want me to go back to 2003 and use those numbers as a gauge to his production?

Plus, using TDs as a barometer is misleading. Marion Barber of the Cowboys scored a lot of TDs this season and I don't think he is in consideration for a top back. The fade pattern to Chambers was once a very popular play for Miami....
Yes it was but Harrington sucks at throwing the fade. I think they should have gone to Marino's favorite end zone pass play...the fade stop.

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:42 PM
football knowledge I'll say 89% as far as the history of the game but I dont think you need to know much to notice inconsistensy over 5 years.

haha, know let me ask u this how many more chances are you willing to give chambers to prove everybody wrong?:fire:

How about you give him consistency at QB? Maybe that has just a litttttle to do with it. He has had what, 7 QB since he has been here? Now then, lets take a look at Holt, Pro bowl qb, Smith, pro bowl QB, Johnson Pro Bowl qb who all had the same 2006 season that chambers had in 2005 in terms of big games and little games...

I love how you people fail to see the relevance of having a good QB who can actually throw a good pass and then have the audacity to say Chambers sucks

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 02:42 PM
Well this post makes no sense at all...Recievers can play slot, DE cannot play QB. So exactly how are you comparing a reciever playing their position (slot) to a DE playing QB...And yes, the slot is his strongest position. Im very sure his numbers wuold have been much better had we played him from the slot all year

Welker is better in the slot, he's consistent. Catches everything and moves the chains on 3rd downs. If you have to put your Wide Out in the slot in order to make him productive then something is seriously wrong with him.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:43 PM
Yes it was but Harrington sucks at throwing the fade. I think they should have gone to Marino's favorite end zone pass play...the fade stop.

You aren't going to have me defending Harrington... I was against him being picked up from the get go... I wanted Frerotte to remain a Dolphin...

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 02:45 PM
How about you give him consistency at QB? Maybe that has just a litttttle to do with it. He has had what, 7 QB since he has been here? Now then, lets take a look at Holt, Pro bowl qb, Smith, pro bowl QB, Johnson Pro Bowl qb who all had the same 2006 season that chambers had in 2005 in terms of big games and little games...

I love how you people fail to see the relevance of having a good QB who can actually throw a good pass and then have the audacity to say Chambers sucks

Yea, but those guys you mentioned have 3 to 5 monster games EVERY YEAR.... Chambers has been here 6 years and has had those 3 games and that game on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys... Outside of those 4 games and the amazing catch he makes from time to time - how would you rate his time in Miami???

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:51 PM
You aren't going to have me defending Harrington... I was against him being picked up from the get go... I wanted Frerotte to remain a Dolphin...
How can you defend Harrington on the fact that he sucks at throwing the fade pass? Just go back to the Jacksonville game when he overthrew Chambers twice and Booker once in the end zone.

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:53 PM
Yea, but those guys you mentioned have 3 to 5 monster games EVERY YEAR.... Chambers has been here 6 years and has had those 3 games and that game on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys... Outside of those 4 games and the amazing catch he makes from time to time - how would you rate his time in Miami???
Those guys have been playing with the same QB year in and year out. Chambers have to play with atleast 3 different QBs a year for the past 3 years. Just as the QB play has been inconsistent, so has Chambers play. They go hand in hand.

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 02:55 PM
Welker is better in the slot, he's consistent. Catches everything and moves the chains on 3rd downs. If you have to put your Wide Out in the slot in order to make him productive then something is seriously wrong with him.

Some players are just suited for better roles and better positions than others. If someone is more producitve out of a certain postion then why mve them arund. they should be kept there

Geforce
02-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Welker is better in the slot, he's consistent. Catches everything and moves the chains on 3rd downs. If you have to put your Wide Out in the slot in order to make him productive then something is seriously wrong with him.
No, you move them around to find the more favorable match ups. To hopefully put him in a position where he won't be doubled team and the slot receiver is almost never faces that type of coverage.

Alex44
02-01-2007, 03:02 PM
Wait hold on...your logic is flawed.

He has had so many chances....he seized one....but no dont count that it's a fluke. If you give someone a chance and they do it then you cant say 'No dont count that one because it might prove me wrong.'

Anyway back on topic.

If you watched the games last year then you would see how awful two things were (and that were a huge part in Chambers having a bad year)

1) Mularky didnt use his strengths at all. He didnt run routes that were good for his skill set. Everything was either a screen, fly route, 10 and out, and on occasion a 7 and hitch. Chambers speed creates seperation, which is why he needs to be running posts and drag routes along with those other ones. Keeping a DB guessing creates more seperation, even if its only an inch or two thats huge in the NFL.

2) Harrington throws those routes in question horribly. He throws the 10 and out to low, he throws the fly to far, he throws the 7 and hitch behind people and he actually throws the screen pass well what a surprise! There were so many times last year where Chambers had the corner beat and Harrington simply couldnt get him the ball.

He had some drops like all WR, and he does have problems with that sometimes. But overall he is much better than his stats show, if we could get an OC that knows how to use him and a QB that knows how to throw.

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 03:09 PM
No, you move them around to find the more favorable match ups. To hopefully put him in a position where he won't be doubled team and the slot receiver is almost never faces that type of coverage.

Bingo! If you have to put your #1 reciever in the slot in order for him to get open then quite frankly he sucks and is not a #1 reciever. I understand doing it once in awhile to create mismatches but moving your #1 to the slot because he is unable to perform as a wideout is Bass Ackwards. We are going to pay the guy over 6 million dollars to be a slot reciever? Give me a break man...It's things like this that have cemented this offense as mediocre throughout the last 10 years.

Alex44
02-01-2007, 03:11 PM
Bingo! If you have to put your #1 reciever in the slot in order for him to get open then quite frankly he sucks and is not a #1 reciever. I understand doing it once in awhile to create mismatches but moving your #1 to the slot because he is unable to perform as a wideout is Bass Ackwards. We are going to pay the guy over 6 million dollars to be a slot reciever? Give me a break man...It's things like this that have cemented this offense as mediocre throughout the last 10 years.

I don't think anyone said put him in the slot on a permanent basis :confused: just on occasion to:

A) Keep the defense guessing.

B) Create mismatches every so often.

If someone said put him in the slot for good then I think they are wrong.

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 03:13 PM
I don't think anyone said put him in the slot on a permanent basis :confused: just on occasion to:

A) Keep the defense guessing.

B) Create mismatches every so often.

If someone said put him in the slot for good then I think they are wrong.

Your missing the point, he is unable to do his job without being put in the slot regardless if it's permanent or not the idea of paying a guy 6 million dollars to only be productive the couple plays you put him in the slot is ludicrous!

Alex44
02-01-2007, 03:17 PM
Your missing the point, he is unable to do his job without being put in the slot regardless if it's permanent or not the idea of paying a guy 6 million dollars to only be productive the couple plays you put him in the slot is ludicrous!

It's hard to be productive when the OC is running you on routes that dont suit your strengths and your QB can't throw those routes well.

Welker runs short shorts. Joey throws short routes pretty well.


Chambers runs deep routes. Joey cant throw deep routes for his life.

That has something to do with it. It has nothing to do with the slot, it's that Mularky cant call plays or gameplan and Joey cant throw.

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 03:19 PM
It's hard to be productive when the OC is running you on routes that dont suit your strengths and your QB can't throw those routes well.

Welker runs short shorts. Joey throws short routes pretty well.


Chambers runs deep routes. Joey cant throw deep routes for his life.

That has something to do with it. It has nothing to do with the slot, it's that Mularky cant call plays or gameplan and Joey cant throw.

Yea that explains why Chambers sucked before Mularkey and Harrington even got here :shakeno:

Folks like you have been making excuses for this guy for 6 years now...it's getting old.

tmny99
02-01-2007, 03:24 PM
He'll be on the team for at least one more season. All of these offensive players should be given the opportunity to show what they can under the proper offensive tutilege.

Alex44
02-01-2007, 03:25 PM
Yea that explains why Chambers sucked before Mularkey and Harrington even got here :shakeno:

Folks like you have been making excuses for this guy for 6 years now...it's getting old.


He played pretty damn well under Linehan once Scott learned how to use him to his strengths.


Under Wanny he played in a run first system, a run first, second, and third system what exactly were you expecting stat wise?

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 03:28 PM
He played pretty damn well under Linehan once Scott learned how to use him to his strengths.


Under Wanny he played in a run first system, a run first, second, and third system what exactly were you expecting stat wise?

No he didn't he had 1 fluke game against Buffalo, a couple decent games and 13 mediocre at best games when Linehan was here and that was the best he has ever done in 6 years.

Did you ever think maybe the reason Wanny was running the ball so much was because we had mediocre recievers?

nick1
02-01-2007, 03:36 PM
Chambers is a classic underacheiver, he needs to go but his contract makes him untradable and uncutable. maybe he will succeed under Cameron who knows but he needs the ball thrown to him alot to be effective

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 03:38 PM
No he didn't he had 1 fluke game against Buffalo, a couple decent games and 13 mediocre at best games when Linehan was here and that was the best he has ever done in 6 years.

Did you ever think maybe the reason Wanny was running the ball so much was because we had mediocre recievers?

You never cease to amaze me. Never. You blame everything on the receivers. Wannstedt ran the ball so much because we had Ricky Williams, Jay Fiedler, and a solid defense. That is, running the ball and passing only when necessary (and half the time even running then) was good enough to win. You may remember Wannstedt had winning season after winning season until Ricky Williams left (at which point we had no offensive line, no running back, and no quarterback).

On the other hand, I'm sure Wannstedt was just itching to let Jay Fiedler air it out, but shied away from it because our receivers were bad.

Do you really believe this?

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 03:45 PM
On the other hand, I'm sure Wannstedt was just itching to let Jay Fiedler air it out, but shied away from it because our receivers were bad.

Do you really believe this?

Do you honestly believe that 6 or more QB's have all been so horribly bad on their own? You do realise a Qb is only as good as his recievers do you not? Just look at Tom Brady this year, the Pat's still got it done but Brady looked mediocre all year ending up with an 87 Qb rating. Feidler had an 80 QB rating his first full season and followed it up with an 85 Qb rating in the 11 games he played the following year. Notice the similiarities?

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 03:50 PM
You never cease to amaze me. Never. You blame everything on the receivers. Wannstedt ran the ball so much because we had Ricky Williams, Jay Fiedler, and a solid defense. That is, running the ball and passing only when necessary (and half the time even running then) was good enough to win. You may remember Wannstedt had winning season after winning season until Ricky Williams left (at which point we had no offensive line, no running back, and no quarterback).

On the other hand, I'm sure Wannstedt was just itching to let Jay Fiedler air it out, but shied away from it because our receivers were bad.

Do you really believe this?

Although he was one of the most winningest starters among active QB's when he was here, Feidler wasnt the best passer. He made alot of plays because he was very mobile...

Among active Quarterbacks in the NFL, Fiedler owns the fifth best starting record (minimun 25 starts) with a 37-23 record for a .617 winning percentage mark

jdang307
02-01-2007, 03:55 PM
Yea that explains why Chambers sucked before Mularkey and Harrington even got here :shakeno:

Folks like you have been making excuses for this guy for 6 years now...it's getting old.

If you consider 1100 yards and 11 TDs sucking, 900 yards and 11 TDs sucking, or 900 yards and 7 TDs sucking, your expectations are really too high. Is he elite? NO. Does he suck, hell no.

Do we need an elite receiver to win? Ask San Diego who their elite WR is.

nick1
02-01-2007, 03:57 PM
If you consider 1100 yards and 11 TDs sucking, 900 yards and 11 TDs sucking, or 900 yards and 7 TDs sucking, your expectations are really too high. Is he elite? NO. Does he suck, hell no.

Do we need an elite receiver to win? Ask San Diego who their elite WR is.

have they won a superbowl? I get the point but it certainly helps to have a top WR, they use both LT and Gates alot. thats kind of like having an elite WR

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 03:58 PM
Do we need an elite receiver to win? Ask San Diego who their elite WR is.

Did San Diego win? Last I remember they were eliminated round one of the playoffs because their recievers couldn't get the job done.

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 03:59 PM
Do you honestly believe that 6 or more QB's have all been so horribly bad on their own? You do realise a Qb is only as good as his recievers do you not? Just look at Tom Brady this year, the Pat's still got it done but Brady looked mediocre all year ending up with an 87 Qb rating. Feidler had an 80 QB rating his first full season and followed it up with an 85 Qb rating in the 11 games he played the following year. Notice the similiarities?

First, a QB rating of 87.9 is not mediocre - this was good for 9th in the league. If 9th in the league is mediocre, that's crazy - but it fits in with what I would expect from you. Dan Marino's career QB rating was 86.4. Was he mediocre? New England got it done this year, by the way, based on solid above-average running and passing games and outstanding defense.

I'm not sure what you're saying about Jay Fiedler. His worst season by far was in 2004 when he had no running game and arguably the worst offensive line in Dolphins history. While he was effective in 2001 and 2002, the Dolphins were a strongly run-first team. (They were 30th in pass attempts in 2001, 31st in 2002, and 30th in 2003). If you're asking why Chambers didn't have 1600 yard seasons his rookie and second year, it's because Miami didn't throw the ball much. 2003 was a bad year for Fiedler because teams learned to stop Williams. I should mention that Chambers was the leading receiver for all those years.

Fiedler was an efficient quarterback but he certainly wasn't going to produce any star receivers. Brian Griese, despite having some success elsewhere, was terrible here. Ray Lucas was never good. As it turns out, A.J. Feeley probably wasn't either. Rosenfels showed potential (and hey, Chambers did very well with him) but he's gone. Harrington is a waste. We don't know about Lemon. The jury is out on Culpepper as a Dolphin.

What were you saying again?

Oh, that's right - it's all Chambers' fault.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 03:59 PM
Did San Diego win? Last I remember they were eliminated round one of the playoffs because their recievers couldn't get the job done.

Actually they lost because Troy Brown stripped the CB after he intercepted the ball on 4th down. You are right though, that team needs Wideouts more than we do... Trade Chambers to them for their 1st or 2nd... Do Something...

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:00 PM
Did San Diego win? Last I remember they were eliminated round one of the playoffs because their recievers couldn't get the job done.

I thought they were eliminated because they abandoned the run in the second half and repeatedly made stupid mistakes.

I guess you learn something new every day - it's all about the receivers!

jdang307
02-01-2007, 04:00 PM
Did San Diego win? Last I remember they were eliminated round one of the playoffs because their recievers couldn't get the job done.
Still had a high powered offense with no elite WRs. Marlon Mcree doesn't INT they might win the game. Drayton Florence doesn't head butt they might win the game. Your own example the patriots almost get to the bowl with no good receiver and one (Caldwell) who looks like he is hopped on Meth with the biggest eyeballs I have ever seen.

Chicago doesn't have any "elite" wrs. Marvin Harrison hasn't even showed up in the playoffs.

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:03 PM
Still had a high powered offense with no elite WRs. Marlon Mcree doesn't INT they might win the game. Drayton Florence doesn't head butt they might win the game. Your own example the patriots almost get to the bowl with no good receiver and one (Caldwell) who looks like he is hopped on Meth with the biggest eyeballs I have ever seen.

Chicago doesn't have any "elite" wrs. Marvin Harrison hasn't even showed up in the playoffs.

Harrison is a prime example of why receivers aren't nearly as important as some think. Against KC, Harrison let a ball go right through his hands (the game was close at the time). Against the Patriots, Harrison had a ball hit him in the hands and facemask that he eventually dropped. Yet the Colts are in the Super Bowl.

jdang307
02-01-2007, 04:03 PM
Actually they lost because Troy Brown stripped the CB after he intercepted the ball on 4th down. You are right though, that team needs Wideouts more than we do... Trade Chambers to them for their 1st or 2nd... Do Something...
Exactly, they need wideouts more then we do and they were light years ahead of us. They didn't make the dumb mistakes not related to the WR and they are still odds on favorites to win it all.

WRs are important but not that important. It's this line of thinking that has made the position the prima donnas they are. Anyone who hypes up the position IMO are just falling victim to the Prima Donnas. Quit being starry-eyed school girls and find out the real positions of need on offense, O-line, good qb play and effective running!

nick1
02-01-2007, 04:03 PM
Still had a high powered offense with no elite WRs. Marlon Mcree doesn't INT they might win the game. Drayton Florence doesn't head butt they might win the game. Your own example the patriots almost get to the bowl with no good receiver and one (Caldwell) who looks like he is hopped on Meth with the biggest eyeballs I have ever seen.

Chicago doesn't have any "elite" wrs. Marvin Harrison hasn't even showed up in the playoffs.

Bernad Berrian is becoming the best deep ball WR in the game

jdang307
02-01-2007, 04:05 PM
Bernad Berrian is becoming the best deep ball WR in the game
Becoming, yes. Elite? Not yet. Don't get me wrong I think he's awesome, but unless we are saying 775 and 6 is elite, no he's not. Muhsin isn't either.

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:07 PM
Bernad Berrian is becoming the best deep ball WR in the game

What on earth is your basis for that statement?

dolpns13
02-01-2007, 04:07 PM
Actually they lost because Troy Brown stripped the CB after he intercepted the ball on 4th down. You are right though, that team needs Wideouts more than we do... Trade Chambers to them for their 1st or 2nd... Do Something...

If we did trade him, I dont see us getting a 1st, I do however see us getting a 2nd though. And I wouldnt mind that too much because we got him in the second...But who would be our number 1, booker is the only real number 1 behind chambers on this team and I dont see him being a great option at number one. Since he is a great possession guy, the best thing to do then is to draft a speedster to stretch the field..Ginn Jr...

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:08 PM
Bernad Berrian is becoming the best deep ball WR in the game

If only he had Joey Harrington throwing him the ball -- He'd really be elite then... :shakeno:

Dj Shoj
02-01-2007, 04:08 PM
Yea, but those guys you mentioned have 3 to 5 monster games EVERY YEAR.... Chambers has been here 6 years and has had those 3 games and that game on Thanksgiving against the Cowboys... Outside of those 4 games and the amazing catch he makes from time to time - how would you rate his time in Miami???

Yeah........, you tell him Big ADDiKT LET HIM KNOW:fire:

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:09 PM
If we did trade him, I dont see us getting a 1st, I do however see us getting a 2nd though. And I wouldnt mind that too much because we got him in the second...But who would be our number 1, booker is the only real number 1 behind chambers on this team and I dont see him being a great option at number one. Since he is a great possession guy, the best thing to do then is to draft a speedster to stretch the field..Ginn Jr...

If we trade him for a 2nd, then Miami can use their 1st and a 2nd to move up in the draft and get Calvin Johnson. This would leave us with a 2nd to adress other team needs...

nick1
02-01-2007, 04:10 PM
Becoming, yes. Elite? Not yet. Don't get me wrong I think he's awesome, but unless we are saying 775 and 6 is elite, no he's not. Muhsin isn't either.

not saying elite but good, they have good WRs. your crazy if you think they don't

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 04:10 PM
First, a QB rating of 87.9 is not mediocre - this was good for 9th in the league. If 9th in the league is mediocre, that's crazy - but it fits in with what I would expect from you. Dan Marino's career QB rating was 86.4. Was he mediocre? New England got it done this year, by the way, based on solid above-average running and passing games and outstanding defense.



I see so you feel there is nothing mediocre about those ratings yet in 02 when Feidler put up an 85 Qb rating and Chambers only managed 735 yards on the season you feel it was because Fiedler was mediocre? A bit hypocritical is it not?

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:11 PM
Bernad Berrian is becoming the best deep ball WR in the game

You didn't say good... you said "THE BEST"

nick1
02-01-2007, 04:12 PM
What on earth is your basis for that statement?

he creates alot of speration, he gives Grossman a huge target because he burns his DB so bad on deep balls. maybe not the best because there are some really good WRs but he is up there

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:12 PM
I see so you feel there is nothing mediocre about those ratings yet in 02 when Feidler put up an 85 Qb rating and Chambers only managed 735 yards on the season it was all Fiedlers fault? A bit hypocritical is it not?

What part of 31st IN THE NFL IN PASS ATTEMPTS do you not understand?

nick1
02-01-2007, 04:13 PM
You didn't say good... you said "THE BEST"

okay maybe not a good choice of words but he is better than say Chambers

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 04:13 PM
What part of 31st IN THE NFL IN PASS ATTEMPTS do you not understand?

What part of running the ball because you have mediocre recievers do you not understand?

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:15 PM
What part of running the ball because you have mediocre recievers do you not understand?

LoL

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:15 PM
he creates alot of speration, he gives Grossman a huge target because he burns his DB so bad on deep balls. maybe not the best because there are some really good WRs but he is up there

I fully understand his potential and his upside, but I don't recall him doing that much this season. He's got potential but he's got a long way to go before being considered elite.

That, and it would certainly help him to have a better quarterback than Rex Grossman.

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:19 PM
What part of running the ball because you have mediocre recievers do you not understand?

Is this Mike Martz? Andy Reid?

Who on earth could possibly be as shortsighted as you? Does San Diego run the ball so much because their receivers are mediocre? Does Kansas City run so much because their receivers are mediocre? DO YOU THINK MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE BEST BACKS IN THE LEAGUE?

Seriously, are you this insane? You're telling me that Chambers (our leading receiver from 2001 to 2005) should have had more yards in 2002 when the Dolphins were one step away from being the least likely team in the NFL to throw? Do you think maybe that had anything to do with RICKY WILLIAMS, WHO LED THE NFL IN RUSHING THAT YEAR?

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:21 PM
Is this Mike Martz? Andy Reid?

Who on earth could possibly be as shortsighted as you? Does San Diego run the ball so much because their receivers are mediocre? Does Kansas City run so much because their receivers are mediocre? DO YOU THINK MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE BEST BACKS IN THE LEAGUE?

Seriously, are you this insane? You're telling me that Chambers (our leading receiver from 2001 to 2005) should have had more yards in 2002 when the Dolphins were one step away from being the least likely team in the NFL to throw? Do you think maybe that had anything to do with RICKY WILLIAMS, WHO LED THE NFL IN RUSHING THAT YEAR?

Actually I think the reason why KC runs the ball as much as they do has some to do with their lack of a true wideout... Against INDY, INDY stuffed the run and they couldn't do anything else. KC is another team we could possibly trade Chambers to...

Dolphreak
02-01-2007, 04:24 PM
Wow, all these Chambers haters are amazing!! This guy was a top notch reciever since drafted, made it to the ProBowl in '05, had one screwed up year last year, and now everyone wants his head on a platter!!

NEWSFLASH FOLKS: the entire team sucked last year! The only guy who really pulled his head out of his a$$ consistantly was JT... Sure a few guys had some really nice plays here and there, but overall the whole team stunk!

Those of you who have actually played the game know that what happens on the field is 98% mental, and if you don't your head in it, nothing can go right. I think Saban's lockroom antics left much to be desired, and the players weren't buying his crap anymore, which trickled down to lousy play overall.

I still like Chambers and still believe that he can be a force to be reckoned with in the NFL, and the rest of this team can also, under the right guidance. But after all the Chambers bashing here, I'd beg to be traded to the Patsies, and have another PB season, just to ram it down your throats next year...
If I were him :cooldude:

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:26 PM
Actually I think the reason why KC runs the ball as much as they do has some to do with their lack of a true wideout... Against INDY, INDY stuffed the run and they couldn't do anything else. KC is another team we could possibly trade Chambers to...

Right, good call. Larry Johnson is just along for the ride.

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 04:26 PM
Is this Mike Martz? Andy Reid?

Who on earth could possibly be as shortsighted as you? Does San Diego run the ball so much because their receivers are mediocre? Does Kansas City run so much because their receivers are mediocre? DO YOU THINK MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE BEST BACKS IN THE LEAGUE?

Seriously, are you this insane? You're telling me that Chambers (our leading receiver from 2001 to 2005) should have had more yards in 2002 when the Dolphins were one step away from being the least likely team in the NFL to throw? Do you think maybe that had anything to do with RICKY WILLIAMS, WHO LED THE NFL IN RUSHING THAT YEAR?

San Diego had a 40% Run 60% Pass ratio bud. LT LED THE NFL IN RUSHING THIS YEAR.

Next Question!

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:27 PM
Wow, all these Chambers haters are amazing!! This guy was a top notch reciever since drafted, made it to the ProBowl in '05, had one screwed up year last year, and now everyone wants his head on a platter!!

NEWSFLASH FOLKS: the entire team sucked last year! The only guy who really pulled his head out of his a$$ consistantly was JT... Sure a few guys had some really nice plays here and there, but overall the whole team stunk!

Those of you who have actually played the game know that what happens on the field is 98% mental, and if you don't your head in it, nothing can go right. I think Saban's lockroom antics left much to be desired, and the players weren't buying his crap anymore, which trickled down to lousy play overall.

I still like Chambers and still believe that he can be a force to be reckoned with in the NFL, and the rest of this team can also, under the right guidance. But after all the Chambers bashing here, I'd beg to be traded to the Patsies just to ram it down your throat next year... If I were him :cooldude:

"Top Notch Receiver since drafted" you say -- back it up with numbers... Shut all these "Haters" up... I bet you wont be able to...

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:29 PM
Right, good call. Larry Johnson is just along for the ride.

I didn't say that... I CLEARLY wrote that "some to do with their lack of a true wideout."

I understand you were quick to try to put someone down for something they wrote but reading comprehension is important.. Have a nice day! :o

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:32 PM
San Diego had a 40% Run 60% Pass ratio bud. LT LED THE NFL IN RUSHING THIS YEAR.

Next Question!

They did? San Diego had 466 pass attempts and 522 rush attempts. By my math, that's about 53/47 run/pass. Only Atlanta rushed more (I guess that's not because of Warrick Dunn and Michael Vick, but rather their lack of receivers). Jacksonville rushed 513 times, but that's got nothing to do with Jones-Drew and Fred Taylor - it's because they don't have any receivers.

So you actually proved a whole bunch of my points:

1) You're an idiot and you either can't look up the right numbers or can't do math;
2) Teams rush alot because it's effective and they have good backs;
3) A team with a highly effective passer (Rivers was 8th in the NFL with a 92.0) can do without spectacular receivers if they don't throw that much.

Thanks! I appreciate the help.

Dolphreak
02-01-2007, 04:34 PM
"Top Notch Receiver since drafted" you say -- back it up with numbers... Shut all these "Haters" up... I bet you wont be able to...

Ah, numbers shmumbers, bottom line, everyone LOVED Chambers until this season.

emocomputerjock
02-01-2007, 04:41 PM
They did? San Diego had 466 pass attempts and 522 rush attempts. By my math, that's about 53/47 run/pass. Only Atlanta rushed more (I guess that's not because of Warrick Dunn and Michael Vick, but rather their lack of receivers). Jacksonville rushed 513 times, but that's got nothing to do with Jones-Drew and Fred Taylor - it's because they don't have any receivers.

So you actually proved a whole bunch of my points:

1) You're an idiot and you either can't look up the right numbers or can't do math;
2) Teams rush alot because it's effective and they have good backs;
3) A team with a highly effective passer (Rivers was 8th in the NFL with a 92.0) can do without spectacular receivers if they don't throw that much.

Thanks! I appreciate the help.

You shouldn't get so unduly angry when discussing statistical threads, because someone is bound to come along and school you. In this case, CK.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=180966

Sorry bout that. You were asking for it.

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 04:44 PM
You shouldn't get so unduly angry when discussing statistical threads, because someone is bound to come along and school you. In this case, CK.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=180966

Sorry bout that. You were asking for it.

:up: Thanks Bro! :lol:

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:44 PM
Ah, numbers shmumbers, bottom line, everyone LOVED Chambers until this season.

So you don't want to back up your statements with numbers? and BTW, I've been on the Chris Chambers needs to go bandwagon for YEARS... This year more people have started to realize it...

emocomputerjock
02-01-2007, 04:45 PM
:up: Thanks Bro! :lol:

Don't thank me, thank CK - the guy is astounding with it comes to statisical analysis.

Finfan53
02-01-2007, 04:46 PM
Were Randy Moss' probowl trips flukes too? Were there just so many pathetic recievers in the NFL in 2005 that Chambers somehow squeezed into the probowl?
The fact that somebody wants Moss instead of Chambers sickens me.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:49 PM
Were Randy Moss' probowl trips flukes too? Were there just so many pathetic recievers in the NFL in 2005 that Chambers somehow squeezed into the probowl?
The fact that somebody wants Moss instead of Chambers sickens me.

Yea... Why would anyone want a perrenial probowler and possibly a hall of famer over an overpaid underachiever... CRAZYNESS I TELL YOU... FINHEAVENERS ARE GOING MADDDDD! :evil:

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Don't thank me, thank CK - the guy is astounding with it comes to statisical analysis.

Yes, he is very good at it!

DonShula84
02-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!

If you say it's time to move on then I'm convinced, trade him.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 04:50 PM
Chris Chambers leads the league every year in drops..My bad, he was second this year to Terrel Owens..You have to throw a third more passes to Chambers for him to get the same production as other wide outs!
I saw a write up on it before and it had numbers of catchable balls compared to production and Chris Chambers was worst in the league for like three seasons..If anybody has this article please post it. The only wide out we should keep is Welker and Hagan! Booker disappears in most games and Hagan has the Chris Chambers disease, but he deserves a chance to turn it around because he is young!
I vote:
Round 1...Take best DE available (Taylor not getting any younger)
Round 2 and 3...take WRs
Let Ricky come back and reunite Randy Moss with Cpep for one year!

I couldn't disagree more with your post. You want Randy Moss down here so he can mope around and play when he wants to? Chambers has the same type of ability as Randy Moss, the problem is we've only seen glimpses of it. Explain to me why would like to get rid of our best two receivers and promote our worst receiver. (Hagan)

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 04:52 PM
I couldn't disagree more with your post. You want Randy Moss down here so he can mope around and play when he wants to? Chambers has the same type of ability as Randy Moss, the problem is we've only seen glimpses of it. Explain to me why would like to get rid of our best two receivers and promote our worst receiver. (Hagan)


I would like to cordially thank Finheaven's biggest Homer and quite possibly Chris Chambers himself for joining the conversation... Welcome Chris...

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 04:54 PM
You shouldn't get so unduly angry when discussing statistical threads, because someone is bound to come along and school you. In this case, CK.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=180966

Sorry bout that. You were asking for it.

Don't be sorry. You didn't prove anything and neither did CK (at least not relative to my point). Run/Pass ratio is only valid relative to the rest of the league. The net result is that San Diego had a 53% run / 47% pass balance.

Based on the numbers available, that makes San Diego fourth in the league in run/pass ratio. (Atlanta, Jacksonville, and Kansas City are the first three.) Even if you try to spin the numbers the way CK has done, logically you must accept the fact that that holds true for all teams. That is, the "adjusted" run/pass ratio would still leave San Diego around 4th in the league in run/pass, and my statement that Kansas City and San Diego "run so much" is true because they still run more than almost every other team. I didn't bring out the numbers until somebody else brought out false numbers; my numbers are true and not adjusted. That I consider irrelevant because it's the relation that matters, not the precise ratio.

In fact, considering that San Diego was 8th in the league in sacks allowed, they might actually move up. Jacksonville only allowed two more, but Kansas City and Atlanta had much more. That is, adjusting for "called runs" and "called passes" San Diego might actually be 2nd.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 04:59 PM
I would like to cordially thank Finheaven's biggest Homer and quite possibly Chris Chambers himself for joining the conversation... Welcome Chris...

Hey good factul evidence and way to bring something to the table. At least come back with something to say instead of making an *** out of yourself.

Maybe I should get you one of these.

http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Geforce
02-01-2007, 05:00 PM
Bingo! If you have to put your #1 reciever in the slot in order for him to get open then quite frankly he sucks and is not a #1 reciever. I understand doing it once in awhile to create mismatches but moving your #1 to the slot because he is unable to perform as a wideout is Bass Ackwards. We are going to pay the guy over 6 million dollars to be a slot reciever? Give me a break man...It's things like this that have cemented this offense as mediocre throughout the last 10 years.

Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Terrell Owens and Steve Smith to name a few all play the slot at some time during games.
What has cemented this offense in mediocrity is the lack of continuity or consistency from having too many offensive coordinators, too many quarterbacks along with other factors. Name one other team that has been through as many OCs & QBs as we have the past 5 years?

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 05:03 PM
Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Terrell Owens and Steve Smith to name a few all play the slot at some time during games.
What has cemented this offense in mediocrity is the lack of continuity or consistency from having too many offensive coordinators, too many quarterbacks along with other factors. Name one other team that has been through as many OCs & QBs as we have the past 5 years?

Already responded to this, they are put in the slot to create mismatches, not because they are unable to do their jobs at the wideout position.

SabanHater
02-01-2007, 05:03 PM
I'm not going to sit here and rip him. All I'm going to say is he better have an outstanding season because this is his last chance for me. I still believe in him and really would love to see him suceed, but come on CC... get it going man.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 05:09 PM
Hey good factul evidence and way to bring something to the table. At least come back with something to say instead of making an *** out of yourself.

Maybe I should get you one of these.

http://www.rottentopic.com/catalog/images/899_tash.jpg


Thread after thread regarding Chambers, you respond by defending his "Hall of Fame" numbers as if we are talking about Jerry Rice. We get it - he's on your Avatar, on your signature... You like the guy... The problem is, his lack of production is something you can't make go away. The guy has shown glimpses of talent, but those glimpses fade and we're left with a middle of the pack receiver making BIG MONEY. It's really nothing personal against him, it's more about me wanting more from our team than he is able to give. I see Terrell Owens numbers for this past season, which dwarf Chambers' numbers, and Owens is said to have an off year... The numbers he put up this season in his "Off Year" are very similar to Chambers "Magical" season of '05...

Some people on here are Optimistic. Some are Pesimistic... I'm Realistic...

flintsilver7
02-01-2007, 05:10 PM
Sidenote:

If we adjust for sacks being called passes, San Diego is actually the third most likely team in the NFL to run, not the fourth.

Sorry, are we still ignoring facts?

Dj Shoj
02-01-2007, 05:23 PM
If you say it's time to move on then I'm convinced, trade him.

I am glad I can SHARE some SENSE around here :evil:

23_Phins_84
02-01-2007, 06:36 PM
I couldn't disagree more with your post. You want Randy Moss down here so he can mope around and play when he wants to? Chambers has the same type of ability as Randy Moss, the problem is we've only seen glimpses of it. Explain to me why would like to get rid of our best two receivers and promote our worst receiver. (Hagan)


wow, I couldnt agree more until that last line. Hagan is probally our second most consistant receiver, behind Welker. Sure hes dropped a few passes, but so has anyone else. And atleast he isnt like Booker, who doesnt drop many balls, but he prefers the "fall on your face" method to end a drive.

On topic now. Chambers is a good receiver. Drops mean almost nothing to me. If the ball touches your hands and hits the ground, it is considered a Dropped Ball.

That includes, but is not limited to:

1. Over/under thrown balls that JUST tip his fingers
2. Balls that are too low for him to get a firm grip on
3. Balls that are SO off target that he can only get one hand on it.
4. Balls that are high, forcing him to go up in the air and get hit on his way down, forcing the ball out
5. Drops that are completley his fault.

If I may ask, how many of those drops fall under category 5?
2, 3, maybe even 5 drops?

phins3454
02-01-2007, 06:53 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!

Dont be hating on Chambers now, its not his fault he has a different QB throwing him the ball every year! Its not his fault that he has to re-adjust to a new offence every year! Its not his fault he plays under a differnt coach ever year! He goes through some much crap every year, how can any WR be consistant with all that? its like he can never get into rhythm, b/c something is always changing.

Finfan53
02-01-2007, 07:08 PM
Yea... Why would anyone want a perrenial probowler and possibly a hall of famer over an overpaid underachiever... CRAZYNESS I TELL YOU... FINHEAVENERS ARE GOING MADDDDD! :evil:
Both may be overpaid.... but when Randy Moss takes a play off, everybody in the stadium knows it. Was Moss in the Probowl at all since joining the Raiders? Chambers drops some balls, but so many he barely had a chance to make a play on!?!

phinphan896
02-01-2007, 07:12 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!
I think were stuck with him til he retires because his contract is getting towards its tail end and is getting pretty big which wouldmake it harder to trade him.

Dj Shoj
02-01-2007, 07:14 PM
Dont be hating on Chambers now, its not his fault he has a different QB throwing him the ball every year! Its not his fault that he has to re-adjust to a new offence every year! Its not his fault he plays under a differnt coach ever year! He goes through some much crap every year, how can any WR be consistant with all that? its like he can never get into rhythm, b/c something is always changing.

Man... Why you just dont give birth to all his children? Chambers is the #1 Pro-crasinator in this team:evil:

GRT8
02-01-2007, 07:17 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!


an honest response seeing the money he's earning. He was a pro-bowler just one hawaii summer ago though!

IS it his fault? fair question. It's not like he has had a solid QB to build a rapport with. It isn't like he has had the same Offensive co-ordinator for more than a year lately. It isn't like he has been on a offensive juggernaut. Restructuring his contract just hurts us down the road and cutting him doesn't make sense, cause who's out there that will be better or cheaper that has a better track record or been to a pro-bowlin the last year? When SLinehan was herhe thrived in a vertical game..........how would Chambers do with seven years with Manning............no doubt.....awesome

Transcendental
02-01-2007, 07:20 PM
You know people have lost their minds when they're quoting Hagans as being consistent and putting Chris Chambers in Randy Moss' league. Give me a break. That's a Kool-Aid chugging Super Homer right there. I can only hope a delusional fan like that can end up on some national stage with an audience and get laughed right out of the building for that stupid comparison.

Transcendental
02-01-2007, 07:23 PM
an honest response seeing the money he's earning. He was a pro-bowler just one hawaii summer ago though!

IS it his fault? fair question. It's not like he has had a solid QB to build a rapport with. It isn't like he has had the same Offensive co-ordinator for more than a year lately. It isn't like he has been on a offensive juggernaut. Restructuring his contract just hurts us down the road and cutting him doesn't make sense, cause who's out there that will be better or cheaper that has a better track record or been to a pro-bowlin the last year? When SLinehan was herhe thrived in a vertical game..........how would Chambers do with seven years with Manning............no doubt.....awesome

More dissemination of blame. Even when things were clicking Chambers still did squat. If he's a game breaker as alot of Chambers homers preach, all those things shouldn't be the end all tell all of his performances. He's simply one dimensional. Get over it.

GRT8
02-01-2007, 07:25 PM
do you have anything intelligent to ad or are you done?

Transcendental
02-01-2007, 07:33 PM
do you have anything intelligent to ad or are you done?

Chris Chambers is who he is. You can continue to swing from the man's banana hammock singing his praise if you'd like.............but fact is he's been an underachiever in college AND the pro's. I don't know why you guys act so surprised or pass so much blame to other elements. It's unfortunate, all it takes is just a handful of standout games for you guys to induct this "lob and go get it" one-dimensional, overpaid wideout into the hall of fame.

Your argument only serves you. It's not rooted in any kind of fact. If you're elite, you can overcome deficiencies at QB and offensive design. It's not like the Dolphins have been running an offense from 1922 before the forward latter was legal. If Chris Chambers doesn't have a deep, vertical offense he's rather useless at his price.

GRT8
02-01-2007, 07:45 PM
Chris Chambers is who he is. You can continue to swing from the man's banana hammock singing his praise if you'd like.............but fact is he's been an underachiever in college AND the pro's. I don't know why you guys act so surprised or pass so much blame to other elements. It's unfortunate, all it takes is just a handful of standout games for you guys to induct this "lob and go get it" one-dimensional, overpaid wideout into the hall of fame.

Your argument only serves you. It's not rooted in any kind of fact. If you're elite, you can overcome deficiencies at QB and offensive design. It's not like the Dolphins have been running an offense from 1922 before the forward latter was legal. If Chris Chambers doesn't have a deep, vertical offense he's rather useless at his price.

so I take it your done.:sidelol:

Transcendental
02-01-2007, 07:50 PM
so I take it your done.:sidelol:

Not at all. It's guarenteed I'm going to keep talking, just like Chris Chambers is going to keep up his underachievement scherade. :wink:

23_Phins_84
02-01-2007, 08:08 PM
Well obviously Chambers is doing something right, because he is our #1, not Booker or Welker

footballer
02-01-2007, 08:43 PM
Maybe Chris Chambers logs on to Finheaven, reads these posts, sees how most Phins fans are tired of him being an underachieving - over paid WR. Walks into Coach Cameron's office and demands a trade... I can hope right?

who do all yall want for the guy? ashlie lelie? keyshawn? or T.O. ?
what we see with CC, so does everyone else...
he's an awesome #2 wr, (that gets paid like a #1) and the draft, or frre agency will hopefully bring in a solid #1...

but it wont be easy, or cheap..

Alex44
02-01-2007, 08:49 PM
Not at all. It's guarenteed I'm going to keep talking, just like Chris Chambers is going to keep up his underachievement scherade. :wink:

Seriously if you have a point to make you will be much better off taking a logical approach then just bashing people with the opposite opinion. Give us your take on why he has underachieved, what you think he should have done with the offense we ran and the problems on it. Tell us what you saw during games that was Chambers fault that makes him a bad player.

You will get much more respect that way.

phinphan896
02-01-2007, 08:55 PM
Seriously if you have a point to make you will be much better off taking a logical approach then just bashing people with the opposite opinion. Give us your take on why he has underachieved, what you think he should have done with the offense we ran and the problems on it. Tell us what you saw during games that was Chambers fault that makes him a bad player.

You will get much more respect that way.
dont worry he just thinks hes smarter than everybody else.

Sean
02-01-2007, 09:03 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!


nope. he's more valuable to us than what he's worth.... if we were to trade him now we'd get maybe a low 3rd high 4th @ best.. so no he will remain a dolphin the rest of his carrer {most likely}

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 09:19 PM
Well obviously Chambers is doing something right, because he is our #1, not Booker or Welker

He hasn't done anything to warrant him being the Dolphins #1 receiver... Miami hasn't addressed this situation - they tried (David Boston) but they havent... :rolleyes:

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 09:20 PM
dont worry he just thinks hes smarter than everybody else.

I happen to think he's amusing and correct...

akanapo
02-01-2007, 09:30 PM
I dont know the football background of all of these posters, and I normally dont post myself. I am however, so tired about the chamber stinks, lets trade him...blah blah post i keep reading.

In order for a wide reciever to develop there must be certain things in place. ( especially in the NFL)

Time working with a single quaterback
Time working in a single offensive scheme

THESE ARE NOT ELECTIVES!!!! THESE ARE REQUIRED.

Chambers has had none of the above. In fact he has has multiple QB's and schemes. MIGHT I ADD MULTIPLE HORRIBLE QB'S

He has dropped too many balls and shows lack of concentration at times. However until he has a chance to work with the same decent QB and develop a relationship under the same system......No judgment can be past.

U look at an ALL PRO caliber receiever and you will find consistency at the QB position as well as offensive Schemes. There are always 1 or two cases that do not follow this rule (like anything).

ChambersNBoston
02-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Yea cause i would have to fight all the haters and you dont want that.

texasPHINSfan
02-01-2007, 09:40 PM
Chambers is ranked #4 in the league in TD catches since 2003.

That's not a stat you want to cut a guy for.

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 09:54 PM
Chambers is ranked #4 in the league in TD catches since 2003.

That's not a stat you want to cut a guy for.

:link:

finfan01
02-01-2007, 09:56 PM
I understand why you are asking for a link...I dont understand how that can be true when there are Marvin Harrison's and Torry Holt's, and other elite receivers that have had a lot more td's than Chambers that I can remember.

bluehaze
02-01-2007, 09:58 PM
I understand why you are asking for a link...I dont understand how that can be true when there are Marvin Harrison's and Torry Holt's, and other elite receivers that have had a lot more td's than Chambers that I can remember.

It's not true...

Apparently the only tactic left for the Chambers camp is to start spewing lies in order to make him look better.

Chambers has put up 43 TD's in his 6 year career, Marvin Harrison does that in 3 years.

akanapo
02-01-2007, 10:28 PM
I dont know the football background of all of these posters, and I normally dont post myself. I am however, so tired about the chamber stinks, lets trade him...blah blah post i keep reading.

In order for a wide reciever to develop there must be certain things in place. ( especially in the NFL)

Time working with a single quaterback
Time working in a single offensive scheme

THESE ARE NOT ELECTIVES!!!! THESE ARE REQUIRED.

Chambers has had none of the above. In fact he has has multiple QB's and schemes. MIGHT I ADD MULTIPLE HORRIBLE QB'S

He has dropped too many balls and shows lack of concentration at times. However until he has a chance to work with the same decent QB and develop a relationship under the same system......No judgment can be past.

U look at an ALL PRO caliber receiever and you will find consistency at the QB position as well as offensive Schemes. There are always 1 or two cases that do not follow this rule (like anything).

1stDown
02-01-2007, 10:32 PM
You could'ev posted this in the Champers thread.

alienalias
02-01-2007, 10:38 PM
Chris Chambers leads the league every year in drops..My bad, he was second this year to Terrel Owens..You have to throw a third more passes to Chambers for him to get the same production as other wide outs!
I saw a write up on it before and it had numbers of catchable balls compared to production and Chris Chambers was worst in the league for like three seasons..If anybody has this article please post it. The only wide out we should keep is Welker and Hagan! Booker disappears in most games and Hagan has the Chris Chambers disease, but he deserves a chance to turn it around because he is young!
I vote:
Round 1...Take best DE available (Taylor not getting any younger)
Round 2 and 3...take WRs
Let Ricky come back and reunite Randy Moss with Cpep for one year!

I love you man! Good thinking... agree 100%.

HybridPHIN 23
02-01-2007, 10:41 PM
Unfortunately Chambers is a Dolphin for life...


i dont get it yooo... CC is a very good WR........ what's so unfortunate about a guy of his character and talent on our side.......... people make no sense.

HybridPHIN 23
02-01-2007, 10:42 PM
Chambers is ranked #4 in the league in TD catches since 2003.

That's not a stat you want to cut a guy for.


nothings ever enough.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 10:46 PM
I agree with you to the fullest man. But I wish you hadn't started this thread because it gives people another chance to bash one of our best players. And me, being the loyal person that I am, will have to come in here and defend him, again.

dlockz
02-01-2007, 10:48 PM
Sure it was man he needed 1/3 more attempts than any other reciever to break 1000 Yards. That's average at best. He got into the popularity contest that is the Pro Bowl over that fluke of a game he had against the Bills not over his performance throughout the year.

His overall stats were among the best in the Afc that year and he did catch 11 touchdowns He had 8 catches for 121 yards and 2 td's against san diego and had 2 touchdowns versus Tennesee. Yes it was a huge game but he still scored 10 touchdowns in other games. You cannot discount one big game.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 10:50 PM
It's not true...

Apparently the only tactic left for the Chambers camp is to start spewing lies in order to make him look better.

Chambers has put up 43 TD's in his 6 year career, Marvin Harrison does that in 3 years.

Next they are going to say that Chris Chambers has more sacks since 2002 than JT...

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 10:57 PM
His overall stats were among the best in the Afc that year and he did catch 11 touchdowns He had 8 catches for 121 yards and 2 td's against san diego and had 2 touchdowns versus Tennesee. Yes it was a huge game but he still scored 10 touchdowns in other games. You cannot discount one big game.

If you'd like a breakdown of Chambers' 2005 season check post 21... It wasn't just the Bills game, it was a 3 game stretch right when Probowl voting was taking place... He didn't have a good 2005, he had a good quarter in 2005... :goof:

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 10:57 PM
It's not true...

Apparently the only tactic left for the Chambers camp is to start spewing lies in order to make him look better.

Chambers has put up 43 TD's in his 6 year career, Marvin Harrison does that in 3 years.

That fact was true that from 2003-2005 only 3 receivers had more TDs than Chris Chambers.

Chris Chambers 29 TDs
Marvin Harrison 37 TDs
Torry Holt 31 TDs
Randy Moss 38 TDs

So yes, it is true. Chambers is a touchdown machine. His leaping ability and ability to fight for the ball down in the red zone is irreplaceable.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:01 PM
That fact was true that from 2003-2005 only 3 receivers had more TDs than Chris Chambers.

Chris Chambers 29 TDs
Marvin Harrison 37 TDs
Torry Holt 31 TDs
Randy Moss 38 TDs

So yes, it is true. Chambers is a touchdown machine. His leaping ability and ability to fight for the ball down in the red zone is irreplaceable.

Actually the statement was #4 in TDs since the 2003 season... There was no cut off at the 2005 season - so don't neglect last season in your stats.... BTW, I wanna trade the "touchdown machine" :sidelol: for the #1 on that list...

What if Miami traded Chris Chambers for a 2nd rounder. Then Miami trades our 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder to Detroit and draft Calvin Johnson. That would leave us with Calvin and a 2nd still... Would you Chambers apologists really not want that???

Alex44
02-01-2007, 11:05 PM
Actually the statement was #4 in TDs since the 2003 season... There was no cut off at the 2005 season - so don't neglect last season in your stats.... BTW, I wanna trade the "touchdown machine" :sidelol: for the #1 on that list...

What if Miami traded Chris Chambers for a 2nd rounder. Then Miami trades our 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder to Detroit and draft Calvin Johnson. That would leave us with Calvin and a 2nd still... Would you Chambers apologists really not want that???

If Chambers is bad and everyone knows it why would someone trade a 2nd for him? Your logic is really flawed.

Geforce
02-01-2007, 11:08 PM
Chambers is ranked #4 in the league in TD catches since 2003.

That's not a stat you want to cut a guy for.
#4 in the league since 2003? How about #6 in TD catches since he's been in the league.

Marvin Harrison 75
Terrell Owens 71
Randy Moss 58
Torry Holt 52
Hines Ward 47
Chris Chambers 43
Chad Johnson 41
Reggie Wayne 37
Steve Smith 30

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:08 PM
Next they are going to say that Chris Chambers has more sacks since 2002 than JT...

Nope, just the true facts that you obviously aren't aware of. Research before you make those claims.


If you'd like a breakdown of Chambers' 2005 season check post 21... It wasn't just the Bills game, it was a 3 game stretch right when Probowl voting was taking place... He didn't have a good 2005, he had a good quarter in 2005... :goof:

Well, looks like you're wrong again ADDikT.

Week 3 vs. Carolina: 6 catches 93 yards 1 TD
Week 7 vs. Kansas City: 88 yards 1 TD
Week 10 vs. New England: 6 catches 69 yards 2 TDs
Week 12 @ Oakland: 6 catches 101 yards
Week 13 vs. Buffalo 15 catches 238 yards 1 game winning TD (That's 2 games worth)
Week 14 @ San Diego: 8 catches 121 yards 2 TDs
Week 16 vs Tennessee: 5 catches 51 yards 2 TDs

That's 7 games where he was a HUGE part of the offense. He had a few other games with 5+ catches and another with 75+.

Every receiver has a few games where they don't light it up. You can't be untouchable each week. Chambers was our MVP in about half of our games in 2005. He was our best player that season, hense the team MVP award.

Explain to me why you would want to cut a guy with that type of capability.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:09 PM
If Chambers is bad and everyone knows it why would someone trade a 2nd for him? Your logic is really flawed.

Do me a favor... Go back and see where I wrote that Chambers is bad... I have said he is over paid and an under achiever. Chris has the speed and the hands (when he concentrates) -- the problem is he is yet to put it together. Maybe a change in scenery would do everyone involved some good...

Plus I wrote "What If" meaning it's a hypothetical... Maybe you should read things a couple times before responding - Reading comprehension is important...

Geforce
02-01-2007, 11:10 PM
Actually the statement was #4 in TDs since the 2003 season... There was no cut off at the 2005 season - so don't neglect last season in your stats.... BTW, I wanna trade the "touchdown machine" :sidelol: for the #1 on that list...

What if Miami traded Chris Chambers for a 2nd rounder. Then Miami trades our 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder to Detroit and draft Calvin Johnson. That would leave us with Calvin and a 2nd still... Would you Chambers apologists really not want that???

Moss has had only 11 TD catches the pass two years.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:12 PM
Actually the statement was #4 in TDs since the 2003 season... There was no cut off at the 2005 season - so don't neglect last season in your stats.... BTW, I wanna trade the "touchdown machine" :sidelol: for the #1 on that list...

What if Miami traded Chris Chambers for a 2nd rounder. Then Miami trades our 1st rounder and a 2nd rounder to Detroit and draft Calvin Johnson. That would leave us with Calvin and a 2nd still... Would you Chambers apologists really not want that???

That was the stat that the poster was talking about, he was just a little off. So let me get this straight, you hate Chambers but you want Moss down here? Tell how that makes any sense since we've seen Moss declining for the past 2 years, walking around the field pouting, all playing about half the plays of the game, and causing all kinds of off the field problems. If Chambers has another sub-par year then we might need to start thinking about his future, but you ruthless guys don't think with your head when you start spouting off.

You want a second rounder for Chambers? So you can guarentee me that that 2nd rounder will be our top receiver? It just makes no sense to dump a guy with that kind of ability, and a guy who has shown us so many excellent flashes, for a pick that has probably a 25% chance of paying off at best.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:13 PM
Nope, just the true facts that you obviously aren't aware of. Research before you make those claims.



Well, looks like you're wrong again ADDikT.

Week 3 vs. Carolina: 6 catches 93 yards 1 TD
Week 7 vs. Kansas City: 88 yards 1 TD
Week 10 vs. New England: 6 catches 69 yards 2 TDs
Week 12 @ Oakland: 6 catches 101 yards
Week 13 vs. Buffalo 15 catches 238 yards 1 game winning TD (That's 2 games worth)
Week 14 @ San Diego: 8 catches 121 yards 2 TDs
Week 16 vs Tennessee: 5 catches 51 yards 2 TDs

That's 7 games where he was a HUGE part of the offense. He had a few other games with 5+ catches and another with 75+.

Every receiver has a few games where they don't light it up. You can't be untouchable each week. Chambers was our MVP in about half of our games in 2005. He was our best player that season, hense the team MVP award.

Explain to me why you would want to cut a guy with that type of capability.

Try to be uniform with your post... If on some games you write how many catches he had and in others you don't - it looks like you are hiding production... :wink:

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:13 PM
#4 in the league since 2003? How about #6 in TD catches since he's been in the league.

Marvin Harrison 75
Terrell Owens 71
Randy Moss 58
Torry Holt 52
Hines Ward 47
Chris Chambers 43
Chad Johnson 41
Reggie Wayne 37
Steve Smith 30

Finally, someone actully puts in some research and backs their opinion. You just extended what I did in my post, very nice man!

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:14 PM
Try to be uniform with your post... If on some games you write how many catches he had and in others you don't - it looks like you are hiding production... :wink:

It was just one game that I left out his low number of catches. Big deal, the fact is he had a huge TD catch in that game. He has the ability to take it the distance every single time he touches it.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:15 PM
That was the stat that the poster was talking about, he was just a little off. So let me get this straight, you hate Chambers but you want Moss down here? Tell how that makes any sense since we've seen Moss declining for the past 2 years, walking around the field pouting, all playing about half the plays of the game, and causing all kinds of off the field problems. If Chambers has another sub-par year then we might need to start thinking about his future, but you ruthless guys don't think with your head when you start spouting off.

You want a second rounder for Chambers? So you can guarentee me that that 2nd rounder will be our top receiver? It just makes no sense to dump a guy with that kind of ability, and a guy who has shown us so many excellent flashes, for a pick that has probably a 25% chance of paying off at best.

Bro... READ WHAT I WROTE... I said IF we can trade him for a 2nd. Then package that 2nd and our 1st to try to trade into the top 2 then take Calvin Johnson. that way we'd have Calvin and a 2nd rounder....

Alex44
02-01-2007, 11:16 PM
Do me a favor... Go back and see where I wrote that Chambers is bad... I have said he is over paid and an under achiever. Chris has the speed and the hands (when he concentrates) -- the problem is he is yet to put it together. Maybe a change in scenery would do everyone involved some good...

Plus I wrote "What If" meaning it's a hypothetical... Maybe you should read things a couple times before responding - Reading comprehension is important...

My reading comprehension is bad? :lol:


Would you Chambers apologists really not want that???

Just by that statement it's obvious you don't like the guy and thats what I based you thinking he was bad on.

Your logic is still flawed anyway I'll rephrase it.

Why would someone trade a second rounder for an overpaid underachiever?

Since were just being hypothetical though, in that situation yes I'd do it.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:17 PM
OK... I'm CONVINCED... Chris Chambers is a top 10 receiver in the league...

::going on Ebay to find me some Chambers jerseys::

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:19 PM
My reading comprehension is bad? :lol:



Just by that statement it's obvious you don't like the guy and thats what I based you thinking he was bad on.

Your logic is still flawed anyway I'll rephrase it.

Why would someone trade a second rounder for an overpaid underachiever?

Since were just being hypothetical though, in that situation yes I'd do it.

Alex... I didn't say anyone would... I said "WHAT IF THEY DID"... noone thought Philly would get a 2nd for A.J. Feely (They did) - so anything can happen...

IF MIAMI GOT A 2nd FOR CHAMBERS.. And Miami were to trade the 9th pick and a 2nd rounder for Calvin Johnson - and still keep a 2nd -- WOULD YOU BE UP FOR THAT?

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:23 PM
So you'd basically trade Chambers for a rookie (Calvin Johnson) -- So you can't be too happy with Chambers - Because I would bet Mr. Aqua wouldn;t trade Chambers for Calvin...

texasPHINSfan
02-01-2007, 11:24 PM
That fact was true that from 2003-2005 only 3 receivers had more TDs than Chris Chambers.

Chris Chambers 29 TDs
Marvin Harrison 37 TDs
Torry Holt 31 TDs
Randy Moss 38 TDs

So yes, it is true. Chambers is a touchdown machine. His leaping ability and ability to fight for the ball down in the red zone is irreplaceable.

thank you.

sorry i couldn't reply as i wasn't online. you guys in the "hate chambers" camp need to not be so quick to discount stuff. Its not a story, there's no link. just because i didn't reply immediately does not mean its not true.

BTW it is statistics available to everyone on espn.com and nfl.com

EDIT: for the record i was for the "cut/trade chambers" camp until i really researched the stats and cap hit we'd take. frankly i think if we put him back in the slot he can be truly effective again.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:28 PM
So you'd basically trade Chambers for a rookie (Calvin Johnson) -- So you can't be too happy with Chambers - Because I would bet Mr. Aqua wouldn;t trade Chambers for Calvin...


And you are getting on others for their reading comprehension?

When you start a statemnt that begins, "So you..." that never makes sense because what I said is what I mean.

Where did I ever say I wouldn't make that trade? I haven't said that yet but I will say it now. I don't know what we are going to get out of Johnson, he could be a Ryan Leaf for all we know. I hate trading good solid players for rookies who have never proven a thing.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:30 PM
And you are getting on others for their reading comprehension?

When you start a statemnt that begins, "So you..." that never makes sense because what I said is what I mean.

Where did I ever say I wouldn't make that trade? I haven't said that yet but I will say it now. I don't know what we are going to get out of Johnson, he could be a Ryan Leaf for all we know. I hate trading good solid players for rookies who have never proven a thing.

Would you do it, Yes or No???

chambers09
02-01-2007, 11:33 PM
most of you guys are just terrible....i mean come on get a life...who knows how hes gonna do this year or anyyear in the future...what if under this system he is amazing...no one knows

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:38 PM
most of you guys are just terrible....i mean come on get a life...who knows how hes gonna do this year or anyyear in the future...what if under this system he is amazing...no one knows

We're terrible because we are discussing the likelihood of a player performing to his potential? What do you do on these boards? These forums are for things just like this - opinions, ideas, discussions...

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:39 PM
Would you do it, Yes or No???

Right now, no, I would not. But after this season if Johnson had a good year and Chambers didn't have a repeat of 2005, then yes, I would. But as of now, no.

texasPHINSfan
02-01-2007, 11:39 PM
We're terrible because we are discussing the likelihood of a player performing to his potential? What do you do on these boards? These forums are for things just like this - opinions, ideas, discussions...

i think the manner you go about expressing your dissent leaves a little to be desired.... you obviously have a bias or agenda. i say this because both sides present facts and opinions, but it seems your "side" or "camp" chooses not to look at the stats or listen to the opinions of the "keep chambers" side.

just my humble opinion.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:40 PM
wow... ok

Aqua and Orange
02-01-2007, 11:40 PM
Chambers was amazing the year before last. I dont think the problem is with him at all but with our complete imbalance and lack of vision on offense last year. Our offense crumbled under Saban and I think a big part of the reason why he left was that he had no idea how to make it better. Saban had too much power but not enough mental skills (at least in regards to offense) to back it up.
Chambers will have a revival under Cameron. Just you watch.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:41 PM
i think the manner you go about expressing your dissent leaves a little to be desired.... you obviously have a bias or agenda. i say this because both sides present facts and opinions, but it seems your "side" or "camp" chooses not to look at the stats or listen to the opinions of the "keep chambers" side.

just my humble opinion.

You see a lot of that on this board. The opposing side can present a perfect case with amazing stats and information but the other side will never listen because their mind is made up.

Aqua4Ever04
02-01-2007, 11:43 PM
Chambers was amazing the year before last. I dont think the problem is with him at all but with our complete imbalance and lack of vision on offense last year. Our offense crumbled under Saban and I think a big part of the reason why he left was that he had no idea how to make it better. Saban had too much power but not enough mental skills (at least in regards to offense) to back it up.
Chambers will have a revival under Cameron. Just you watch.

Saban has no clue when it comes to offense. He spent the entire practice with the DBs and the defense. He relied on Mularky to fix the offense and he simply wasn't up to the task. Saban isn't the evaluator of talent we all thought he was and never had a clue on offense.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:45 PM
i think the manner you go about expressing your dissent leaves a little to be desired.... you obviously have a bias or agenda. i say this because both sides present facts and opinions, but it seems your "side" or "camp" chooses not to look at the stats or listen to the opinions of the "keep chambers" side.

just my humble opinion.

I do have an agenda. I want the Dolphins to make the playoffs, advance deep and possibly win the Superbowl. Unfortunately, there is a salary cap. You can't afford to spend 6Mil on a player that doesn't perform to his "potential". the fact that I am not the only one oN these boards suggesting the trade of Chambers, tells you that there are a lot of people unhappy with Chambers' tenure with the Phinz. I would love for him to succeed - but nothing in his past outside of a 3 game stretch would indicate that he is capable of putting a season together that will help the Phins reach their greater goal. It's not just Chambers, I have lost patience with McMichael and I am losing patience with Ronnie Brown. I don't hold any player ahead of the team. I am not a Chambers fan - I am a Dolphins fan...

wazzy
02-01-2007, 11:46 PM
I say we need to keep Chambers because with stability in the offense he will produce IMO. Also, without Chambers our WR corps looks really bad and unless we address the situation with a big name reciever nobody will take our passing game seriously and they can stack the box and shut our run down! Another reason is if we dropped Chambers there would be a big cap hit and then we would have to pay big money to find a #1 reciever and on top of that he is a great red zone threat!

Killer308
02-01-2007, 11:51 PM
I do have an agenda. I want the Dolphins to make the playoffs, advance deep and possibly win the Superbowl. Unfortunately, there is a salary cap. You can't afford to spend 6Mil on a player that doesn't perform to his "potential". the fact that I am not the only one oN these boards suggesting the trade of Chambers, tells you that there are a lot of people unhappy with Chambers' tenure with the Phinz. I would love for him to succeed - but nothing in his past outside of a 3 game stretch would indicate that he is capable of putting a season together that will help the Phins reach their greater goal. It's not just Chambers, I have lost patience with McMichael and I am losing patience with Ronnie Brown. I don't hold any player ahead of the team. I am not a Chambers fan - I am a Dolphins fan...

I'm with everything you said.

Geforce
02-01-2007, 11:52 PM
I do have an agenda. I want the Dolphins to make the playoffs, advance deep and possibly win the Superbowl. Unfortunately, there is a salary cap. You can't afford to spend 6Mil on a player that doesn't perform to his "potential". the fact that I am not the only one of these boards suggesting the trade of Chambers, tells you that there are a lot of people unhappy with Chambers' tenure with the Phinz. I would love for him to succeed - but nothing in his past outside of a 3 game stretch would indicate that he is capable of putting a season together that will help the Phins reach their greater goal. It's not just Chambers, I have lost patience with McMichael and I am losing patience with Ronnie Brown. I don't hold any player ahead of the team. I am not a Chambers fan - I am a Dolphins fan...

Is it really his "potential" or what you perceived to be his potential? Here is what the Dolphins thought of him when they drafted him.



...Miami Dolphins, who had Chambers rated among the top five receivers in the draft. They liked his jumping ability and athletic skills, and they felt his shortcomings--too many drops, mediocre technique--could be corrected.

ADDiKT
02-01-2007, 11:56 PM
Is it really his "potential" or what you perceived to be his potential? Here is what the Dolphins thought of him when they drafted him.

I think he has shown his potential. Mediocre receivers don't have the kinds of games he had on thanksgiving years back and The Bills in 2005.. The fact that he is very inconsistent is what bothers most Chambers detractors. He will make the amazing one handed catch on the sideline and on the next play drop a ball right in his hands... He definitely has potential it's the production he lacks.

texasPHINSfan
02-02-2007, 12:03 AM
I do have an agenda. I want the Dolphins to make the playoffs, advance deep and possibly win the Superbowl. Unfortunately, there is a salary cap. You can't afford to spend 6Mil on a player that doesn't perform to his "potential". the fact that I am not the only one oN these boards suggesting the trade of Chambers, tells you that there are a lot of people unhappy with Chambers' tenure with the Phinz. I would love for him to succeed - but nothing in his past outside of a 3 game stretch would indicate that he is capable of putting a season together that will help the Phins reach their greater goal. It's not just Chambers, I have lost patience with McMichael and I am losing patience with Ronnie Brown. I don't hold any player ahead of the team. I am not a Chambers fan - I am a Dolphins fan...

i am a dolphin fan too... but i think it was a crappy system. You KNOW they can perform - look at 2005. The problem is the system and OC sucked. We need another Scott Linehan. i think that is the bottom line.

If chambers didn't have the 2005 he had, i'd be right alongside you screaming for us to get rid of him... because before 2005, i didn't think he was capable of putting up the numbers. Now i know he is capable, i just want us to use our talent properly.

EDIT: i appreciate you bringing forth an actual argument backed with more objective information instead of just "he sucks" comments. thank you.

GridIronKing34
02-02-2007, 12:07 AM
You see a lot of that on this board. The opposing side can present a perfect case with amazing stats and information but the other side will never listen because their mind is made up.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner... Whaaaat'd he win, Johnny? :D

craig
02-02-2007, 12:17 AM
If he does nothing again this year i think he will be out....Everyone has 1 bad year or 2 ,3, or 4 :huh:
(Jay Fiedler and Daves Love affair:sidelol: :o )

RenoFinFan
02-02-2007, 12:31 AM
You see a lot of that on this board. The opposing side can present a perfect case with amazing stats and information but the other side will never listen because their mind is made up.

:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol: ...I am aware of Chambers stats inside and out and there is nothing "perfect" or "amazing" about them. Except how "amazing" it is how poorly he plays at times.

texasPHINSfan
02-02-2007, 12:38 AM
:sidelol::sidelol::sidelol: ...I am aware of Chambers stats inside and out and there is nothing "perfect" or "amazing" about them. Except how "amazing" it is how poorly he plays at times.

the first pro bowl receiver we've had in ten years is pretty dang compelling IMO.

Fresh
02-02-2007, 01:03 AM
"Stuck" with Chris Chambers?

At the very least he's an EXCELLENT #2 caliber WR.

What the hell is wrong with that? :rolleyes2

Your thread = F material. Study harder next time.

bluehaze
02-02-2007, 01:04 AM
That fact was true that from 2003-2005 only 3 receivers had more TDs than Chris Chambers.

Chris Chambers 29 TDs
Marvin Harrison 37 TDs
Torry Holt 31 TDs
Randy Moss 38 TDs

So yes, it is true. Chambers is a touchdown machine. His leaping ability and ability to fight for the ball down in the red zone is irreplaceable.

And the Chambers propaganda machine arrives to spread more untruth throughout Dolphin land :shakeno:

Tired of arguing about this...Chambers is not worth the money he is being paid enough said.

I will leave you with this for your reading enjoyment:

Chris Chambers, The Worst WR In Football

Posted at December 6, 2006 9:48 AM in Football Outsiders Columns (http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/archives/gameday/football_outsid/)

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/arc...n_football.php

Matter of fact I think i'll put it in my sig to save myself the trouble from now on. Cheers

texasPHINSfan
02-02-2007, 01:18 AM
And the Chambers propaganda machine arrives to spread more untruth throughout Dolphin land :shakeno:

Tired of arguing about this...Chambers is not worth the money he is being paid enough said.

I will leave you with this for your reading enjoyment:

Chris Chambers, The Worst WR In Football

Posted at December 6, 2006 9:48 AM in Football Outsiders Columns (http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/archives/gameday/football_outsid/)

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/arc...n_football.php

Matter of fact I think i'll put it in my sig to save myself the trouble from now on. Cheers

1) that is a bad link
2) can you make an actual argument instead of just talking smack? back it up with facts, say WHY you don't like him. Here we've posted facts and stats to back us up - you just sit there and say "he sucks"

RenoFinFan
02-02-2007, 01:22 AM
So yes, it is true. Chambers is a touchdown machine. His leaping ability and ability to fight for the ball down in the red zone is irreplaceable.

What? Do you ever research your information or just make it up as you go along? This past year Chambers caught 5 passes out of 23 attempts in the red zone.

Since 2002 chambers has 39 catches on 91 attempts ( 42.8% completion) for 21 TD.
Compare this to Harrison who has 77 catches on 102 attempts (75.5% completion) for 33 TD.

Once again Chambers does not measure up..."irreplaceable" :shakeno:

texasPHINSfan
02-02-2007, 01:34 AM
What? Do you ever research your information or just make it up as you go along? This past year Chambers caught 5 passes out of 23 attempts in the red zone.

Since 2002 chambers has 39 catches on 91 attempts ( 42.8% completion) for 21 TD.
Compare this to Harrison who has 77 catches on 102 attempts (75.5% completion) for 33 TD.

Once again Chambers does not measure up..."irreplaceable" :shakeno:
you are comparing Chambers to a future HOF who is 6th all-time in receiving yards and 3rd all-time in TD catches.

i think you need to find a lower bar to measure up to. That's like comparing every WR to Jerry Rice, and since they don't come close, say "they suck"

Compare Chambers TD's to other #1 WRs in the league. You'll find that he is in the top tier.

RenoFinFan
02-02-2007, 03:07 AM
you are comparing Chambers to a future HOF who is 6th all-time in receiving yards and 3rd all-time in TD catches.

i think you need to find a lower bar to measure up to. That's like comparing every WR to Jerry Rice, and since they don't come close, say "they suck"

Compare Chambers TD's to other #1 WRs in the league. You'll find that he is in the top tier.

Oh I get it...don't compare Chambers to good receivers. Only compare Chambers to any receivers that he compares favorably to. Is that what defending Chambers has come down to? Is this called "fuzzy logic?" The problem is it is really hard to find many #1 WRs that Chambers compares favorably to. There is only "ONE" reason Chambers has put up the numbers that he has and that is bc Miami throws to Chambers an incredible amount of times. But when you compare Chambers to the other WRs in the league that are thrown to around the same amount of times Chambers is then he ends up being at the bottom of the list of almost every statistical category and usually by a large margin. Unless you are talking about stats like passes defensed or drops. Here are a few more for you...

How about Hines Ward who has 59 catches on 99 attempts (59.6% completion) for 31 TD.

Or Steve Smith who has 27 catches on 44 attempts (61.36% completion) for 14 TD.

Or Terrel Owens who has 63 catches on 96 attempts (65.6% completion) for 29 TD.

The list goes on...

If you think Chambers is in the "top tier" then that tells me you really haven't done your homework. You do understand the statement was that Chambers is "irreplaceable." You can keep on ignoring and making excuses for Chambers but the stats tell the real story.

texasPHINSfan
02-02-2007, 04:17 AM
chambers is "irreplaceable" within reason of FA and the draft.

The only guy who could possibly outperform him in the draft is Calvin Johnson, who will most likely go #1 overall.... definitely won't be available to us at 9. The best WR in FA is Donte Stallworth, who, while he has had several decent years (and an above-average year this last year), i don't think he is better than CC. He is faster, but not better. Also more injury-prone.

Cutting or trading Chambers would give us a killer cap hit, and there is nobody available out there to replace him right now.

what part of irreplaceable do you not understand?

and i wasn't talking about not comparing him to "good" WRs... i said compare him to all the #1 WRs on all the teams... he's in the top half of the league. You can't always get a Jerry Rice or Marvin Harrison on your team... and if you're not, its better to be in the top half than bottom half in the league at that position.

texasPHINSfan
02-02-2007, 04:30 AM
FTR Chambers' career at this point is about even with the longer career of hall of famer Lynn Swann. Chambers has 40 more catches, 150 less receiving yards, and 7 less touchdowns than Swann had his whole career.

Would you cut Lynn Swann from your team? His best year was not as productive as Chamber's rookie season.

icephinfan
02-02-2007, 05:30 AM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!


What the heck are you talking about???

Were not trading him, and were not stuck with him, CC is a great WR, get a good QB to get him the ball and you will see.

Paul Mad ScotPZ
02-02-2007, 06:00 AM
With very few exceptions most players can be changed upgraded or we can go in a new direction. Chambers is no different. As far as I see he is a typical NFL player , flashes of brilliance , loads of skill, some errors some drops,

Its all about how we use the players best skills and this goes for Chambers

Aqua4Ever04
02-02-2007, 06:32 AM
And the Chambers propaganda machine arrives to spread more untruth throughout Dolphin land :shakeno:

Tired of arguing about this...Chambers is not worth the money he is being paid enough said.

I will leave you with this for your reading enjoyment:

Chris Chambers, The Worst WR In Football

Posted at December 6, 2006 9:48 AM in Football Outsiders Columns (http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/archives/gameday/football_outsid/)

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/arc...n_football.php

Matter of fact I think i'll put it in my sig to save myself the trouble from now on. Cheers


PLEASE do the honor of explaining to me how the worst WR in football made the pro bowl. Did they invite everyone that year or something? You guys never cease to amaze me. :shakeno:

finfan54
02-02-2007, 08:20 AM
Send him to Green Bay.

If no, then tell him he either has a very productive year or we will cut him or tell him to take a pay cut.

A fire is needed under his *** cus its a mental thing with him.

flintsilver7
02-02-2007, 08:52 AM
And the Chambers propaganda machine arrives to spread more untruth throughout Dolphin land :shakeno:

Tired of arguing about this...Chambers is not worth the money he is being paid enough said.

I will leave you with this for your reading enjoyment:

Chris Chambers, The Worst WR In Football

Posted at December 6, 2006 9:48 AM in Football Outsiders Columns (http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/archives/gameday/football_outsid/)

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/arc...n_football.php

Matter of fact I think i'll put it in my sig to save myself the trouble from now on. Cheers

Not that this is of any interest to you, but I spent a significant amount of time arguing with the guy who wrote that column about the problems with DVOA and DPAR. I don't believe that you care, as you've never actually been able to make an argument on your own. All you care about is hating Chambers - when somebody else posts something you think can be construed to be negative about Chambers, you hold it up as gospel.

None of this will ever matter as long as you fail to realize the quarterback is the one with the major fault. I can't believe people honestly compare Chris Chambers and Marvin Harrison without realizing they are actually equating Peyton Manning to Joey Harrington (or any other of the Miami quarterbacks).

Firesole
02-02-2007, 09:31 AM
I have a new idea as it relates to Chambers. If I were GM for a day, I would do everything in my power to trade Chambers to Cleveland for Braylon Edwards. Edwards could be our Randy Moss for C-Pep, not too mention that the guy is a stud. I think he is one of the most underrated young WRs in teh league, and he is largely unnoticed because of the team that he is on.

Geforce
02-02-2007, 09:52 AM
I have a new idea as it relates to Chambers. If I were GM for a day, I would do everything in my power to trade Chambers to Cleveland for Braylon Edwards. Edwards could be our Randy Moss for C-Pep, not too mention that the guy is a stud. I think he is one of the most underrated young WRs in teh league, and he is largely unnoticed because of the team that he is on.

If Chambers is as bad as you think he is, why would Cleveland do this trade?

Stitches
02-02-2007, 10:03 AM
If Chambers is as bad as you think he is, why would Cleveland do this trade?

Because in his mind trades are as easy in real life as they are in Madden. :rolleyes2

ADDiKT
02-02-2007, 10:29 AM
Oh I get it...don't compare Chambers to good receivers. Only compare Chambers to any receivers that he compares favorably to. Is that what defending Chambers has come down to? Is this called "fuzzy logic?" The problem is it is really hard to find many #1 WRs that Chambers compares favorably to. There is only "ONE" reason Chambers has put up the numbers that he has and that is bc Miami throws to Chambers an incredible amount of times. But when you compare Chambers to the other WRs in the league that are thrown to around the same amount of times Chambers is then he ends up being at the bottom of the list of almost every statistical category and usually by a large margin. Unless you are talking about stats like passes defensed or drops. Here are a few more for you...

How about Hines Ward who has 59 catches on 99 attempts (59.6% completion) for 31 TD.

Or Steve Smith who has 27 catches on 44 attempts (61.36% completion) for 14 TD.

Or Terrel Owens who has 63 catches on 96 attempts (65.6% completion) for 29 TD.

The list goes on...

If you think Chambers is in the "top tier" then that tells me you really haven't done your homework. You do understand the statement was that Chambers is "irreplaceable." You can keep on ignoring and making excuses for Chambers but the stats tell the real story.


You Need to stop... The "Chambers is the best" camp is going down in flames with the proof you are revealing... BTW, GOOD STUFF

ADDiKT
02-02-2007, 10:31 AM
If Chambers is as bad as you think he is, why would Cleveland do this trade?

I read and reread his post... NOWHERE did he mention he thought Chambers was bad... He didn't give an opinion on Chambers... The point of his post was to say he wants to trade him to Cleveland for Edwards. Don't get so defensive, Relax...

Dredd1050
02-02-2007, 10:32 AM
Chambers, Book, Stallworth.

RenoFinFan
02-02-2007, 12:32 PM
chambers is "irreplaceable" within reason of FA and the draft.

The only guy who could possibly outperform him in the draft is Calvin Johnson, who will most likely go #1 overall.... definitely won't be available to us at 9. The best WR in FA is Donte Stallworth, who, while he has had several decent years (and an above-average year this last year), i don't think he is better than CC. He is faster, but not better. Also more injury-prone.

Cutting or trading Chambers would give us a killer cap hit, and there is nobody available out there to replace him right now.

what part of irreplaceable do you not understand?

and i wasn't talking about not comparing him to "good" WRs... i said compare him to all the #1 WRs on all the teams... he's in the top half of the league. You can't always get a Jerry Rice or Marvin Harrison on your team... and if you're not, its better to be in the top half than bottom half in the league at that position.
:lol: You are saying you don't think there is a player in FA or the draft that can replace Chambers red zone numbers of 5 catches out of 23 attempts (21.7% completion) for 2 TDs this year. I guess the part I don't understand about "irreplaceable" is I happen to think just about every WR in the NFL can put up those numbers. This includes players on most practice squads as well.

We had a guy on our team this year named Marty Booker who had 8 catches on 11 attempts (72.7% completion) for 5 TDs in the red zone. Cameron can ask Booker to drop 3 of those touchdowns next year and allow 12 more passes to go incomplete and Chambers will have been replaced. Of course, then we would have to find a decent WR to replace Booker's numbers which would be much harder than finding a WR to replace Chambers. You may not think there are, but I am confident almost every WR in FA can catch 21.7% of the passes thrown to him in the red zone.

As for the draft, you may want to take a look at some WRs like Jarrett, Rice, Bowe, Ginn. These players could easily match Chambers output.

bluehaze
02-02-2007, 01:49 PM
1) that is a bad link
2) can you make an actual argument instead of just talking smack? back it up with facts, say WHY you don't like him. Here we've posted facts and stats to back us up - you just sit there and say "he sucks"

Can you read? Go back a couple pages there's plenty, this has been discussed ad nauseum over and over do a search you will see extensive posts by myself and others about this. I am not going to retype everything just because you are to lazy to find it for yourself.

As far as the link, click the one in my sig.

bluehaze
02-02-2007, 01:52 PM
FTR Chambers' career at this point is about even with the longer career of hall of famer Lynn Swann. Chambers has 40 more catches, 150 less receiving yards, and 7 less touchdowns than Swann had his whole career.

Would you cut Lynn Swann from your team? His best year was not as productive as Chamber's rookie season.

So you had to go back 30 years to find a player that Chambers might be better than? Guess the Chambers camp is running out of ammo! :lol:

Firesole
02-03-2007, 12:27 PM
If Chambers is as bad as you think he is, why would Cleveland do this trade?

Cleveland tends to do the unthinkable....

juniorseau55
02-03-2007, 03:02 PM
Chambers looks lazy in all his games.

dolfan72734me
02-03-2007, 03:50 PM
"Stuck" with Chris Chambers?

At the very least he's an EXCELLENT #2 caliber WR.

What the hell is wrong with that? :rolleyes2

Your thread = F material. Study harder next time.

So, you are cool with paying a NUMBER 2 the amount of a number 1. Because that has been one of the topics of this thread.
Your attemp at being cute with a snappy thread = F.

12MaN
02-03-2007, 03:54 PM
Yeah i guess QBs are the reason he doesnt catch the ball when it hits his hands...


:sidelol: :lol: :sidelol: :lol: :sidelol: :lol:

dolfan72734me
02-03-2007, 03:57 PM
Not that this is of any interest to you, but I spent a significant amount of time arguing with the guy who wrote that column about the problems with DVOA and DPAR. I don't believe that you care, as you've never actually been able to make an argument on your own. All you care about is hating Chambers - when somebody else posts something you think can be construed to be negative about Chambers, you hold it up as gospel.

None of this will ever matter as long as you fail to realize the quarterback is the one with the major fault. I can't believe people honestly compare Chris Chambers and Marvin Harrison without realizing they are actually equating Peyton Manning to Joey Harrington (or any other of the Miami quarterbacks).

So, you are saying that it takes a good quaterback to make Chamber any good, right? So, a wr shouldn't have to be good on his own accord, just when the quaterback can make the wr's job easy. Like not having to actually compete against db's for the ball, whether poorly thrown or not, Nor should he have to get seperation...just move him to another spot...a spot that a #1 isn't supposed to play ALL THE TIME. Notice I said all the time. NOT moving him around occasionally per game plan, but ALL THE TIME.
A good wr should not have to have an excellent qb just to make him look good. A good wr will make himself look good.

Jaydog57
02-03-2007, 04:42 PM
I think Chambers needs a year with a consistent qb, he's had a different one the last 3 seasons. If we can decide on a long term qb and him and Chambers can bond on the field, I think he'll be exceptional.:dolphins:

Aqua4Ever04
02-03-2007, 05:58 PM
So, you are saying that it takes a good quaterback to make Chamber any good, right? So, a wr shouldn't have to be good on his own accord, just when the quaterback can make the wr's job easy. Like not having to actually compete against db's for the ball, whether poorly thrown or not, Nor should he have to get seperation...just move him to another spot...a spot that a #1 isn't supposed to play ALL THE TIME. Notice I said all the time. NOT moving him around occasionally per game plan, but ALL THE TIME.
A good wr should not have to have an excellent qb just to make him look good. A good wr will make himself look good.

It doesn't mean everything for a receiver, but it certainly has an enormous effect. It goes back to the baseball analogy that is a pitcher can't throw strikes, then his defense isn't going to be able to make plays behind them. Receivers don't have the oppertunity to make the plays all by themselves, they rely on the quarterback putting them into position to catch the football. We saw Chris explode with Frerotte because Gus' special talent was getting the football down the field and we all know that's where Chris suceeds. When Gus had a good game, so did Chris. (For the most part.) It's all directly correlated that good QB play = good WR play.

2005 Chambers and Frerotte comparison:

Week 12 @ Oakland-

Frerotte- 18/31 261 yards 2 TDs
Chambers- 6 catches 101 yards

Week 13 @ Buffalo

Rosenfels- 22/37 272 yards 2 TDs 1 INT
Chambers- (in just the 4th quarter) 7 catches 125 yards 1 TD

Week 14 @ San Diego

Frerotte- 14/22 229 yards 2 TDs
Chambers- 8 catches 121 yards 2 TDs

Frerotte was only over 60% completion 3 other times in the season and in those games Chambers did not have big performances. Looking back at Gus' game by game log he only had a few games that really stood out and in all but one of those games, Chambers had a big game. So the truth is that the quarterback play does have an enormous effect on the receiver's production.

bluehaze
02-03-2007, 07:03 PM
Receivers don't have the oppertunity to make the plays all by themselves, they rely on the quarterback putting them into position to catch the football.

You got it backwards bro, the recievers are supposed to put themselves in position to catch the ball. However you might be on to something here. Maybe if we installed a remote control to Chambers the Qb could put him in position to catch the ball because he surely can't figure it out on his own!

Aqua4Ever04
02-03-2007, 10:19 PM
You got it backwards bro, the recievers are supposed to put themselves in position to catch the ball. However you might be on to something here. Maybe if we installed a remote control to Chambers the Qb could put him in position to catch the ball because he surely can't figure it out on his own!

So if Chris is wide open and Joey throws the pass is thrown out of bounds, that's Chambers' fault because he wasn't in that position to catch the ball.

EDIT: Nice sig by the way, good support for your team. And if you think Chambers is the worst WR in the NFL, you aren't worth anyone's time.

Roman529
02-03-2007, 10:23 PM
Will Chambers ever be trade OR we got stuck with him until he retires?

I think he Should because he had too many chances (and please dont count that pro bowl trip cuz we all know that it was a flukie) I say lets move on!

I don't think we would get much for him. I think we just have to hope he will get back to the way he was his pro bowl year. Maybe Cam can light a fire under him.

bluehaze
02-03-2007, 10:48 PM
So if Chris is wide open and Joey throws the pass is thrown out of bounds, that's Chambers' fault because he wasn't in that position to catch the ball.

EDIT: Nice sig by the way, good support for your team. And if you think Chambers is the worst WR in the NFL, you aren't worth anyone's time.

Say what? Chambers wide open? When? Can't say I've ever seen it... :lol:

The sig is in support of my team, I want the team to get better and that means getting rid of all the guys that are just here to collect a paycheck.

dolfan72734me
02-04-2007, 04:53 AM
So if Chris is wide open and Joey throws the pass is thrown out of bounds, that's Chambers' fault because he wasn't in that position to catch the ball.

EDIT: Nice sig by the way, good support for your team. And if you think Chambers is the worst WR in the NFL, you aren't worth anyone's time.

Sure, Joey had some throws that were not catchable. But, it seems to me that a wr would make the best of every opportunity for a catch when the ball is in his area.
Seems that every ball in his area was contested. I RARELY saw Chambers get ANY seperation from the db that was covering him. I remember one interception in the left side of the end zone where had Chambers made any effort what so ever to come back to, it might not have been intercepted. But yet he basically watched the db break on it.
IF Chambers makes a turn around and turns into a yearly all pro, then I will gladly eat crow and say I was wrong. But, at this moment, he has done NOTHING to warrant all of these yearly excuses.
And when everyone says he needs a better qb to make him better...Welker sure seemed to be able to capatalize on the passes thrown to him. And don't give me the crap that it was because he excelled in the short passes that were Joeys strong point. He caught passes that were thrown to him, Chambers did not. It is plain and simple.

shula_guy
02-04-2007, 07:03 AM
I think chambers makes 7mil a season Im sure someone will correct me if Im wrong. My question is this: is he worth what he is paid? I have a general issue with this around the NFL. We base these guys salaries on what we speculate thier performances will be then when they dont perform were stuck overpaying them. I think it would be fair to at least approach cris about restructering, which im sure he wont agree to do.

Aqua4Ever04
02-04-2007, 08:09 AM
Sure, Joey had some throws that were not catchable. But, it seems to me that a wr would make the best of every opportunity for a catch when the ball is in his area.
Seems that every ball in his area was contested. I RARELY saw Chambers get ANY seperation from the db that was covering him. I remember one interception in the left side of the end zone where had Chambers made any effort what so ever to come back to, it might not have been intercepted. But yet he basically watched the db break on it.
IF Chambers makes a turn around and turns into a yearly all pro, then I will gladly eat crow and say I was wrong. But, at this moment, he has done NOTHING to warrant all of these yearly excuses.
And when everyone says he needs a better qb to make him better...Welker sure seemed to be able to capatalize on the passes thrown to him. And don't give me the crap that it was because he excelled in the short passes that were Joeys strong point. He caught passes that were thrown to him, Chambers did not. It is plain and simple.

When you go into a game facing the likes of Chambers and Welker, who are you going to put more attention on? Opposing defenses put their best corners and multiple players on Chambers throughout the whole year while Wes only ran little short undernearth routes. Joey was in such a hurry to get rid of the ball most of the that the only option he had was to take those hot reads underneath. I know Chris had a bad year in 2006, but to think he's not our best WR (BY FAR) is just ridiculous.

NorFlaFin
02-04-2007, 08:53 AM
I think chambers makes 7mil a season Im sure someone will correct me if Im wrong. My question is this: is he worth what he is paid? I have a general issue with this around the NFL. We base these guys salaries on what we speculate thier performances will be then when they dont perform were stuck overpaying them. I think it would be fair to at least approach cris about restructering, which im sure he wont agree to do.

Ever read how the Pat structure contracts? Extremely low base pay the stage incentives for reasonable preformance goals then high ($$) incentives for damn near a perfect season preformance goals. If a guy has a career year hes paid for it, and if he doesn't he gets........

Helluva way to manage your salary cap.

dolfan72734me
02-04-2007, 09:18 AM
When you go into a game facing the likes of Chambers and Welker, who are you going to put more attention on? Opposing defenses put their best corners and multiple players on Chambers throughout the whole year while Wes only ran little short undernearth routes. Joey was in such a hurry to get rid of the ball most of the that the only option he had was to take those hot reads underneath. I know Chris had a bad year in 2006, but to think he's not our best WR (BY FAR) is just ridiculous.

He has the potential to be yes, but he hasn't lived up to that potential. So, no, he hasn't played like our best reciever. You make the correlation that Welker did so well because of the position he was in. I make the correlation that Welker made the best of the opportunities to catch the passes that were thrown to him, where as Chambers did not.
Keep making the excuses that he needs a consistant qb, or he needs a consistant game plan on O. I will keep saying that a good reciever will stand out, regardless of the surrounding circumstances.
If he needs a good qb so bad to make him look good, then trade him to a team that has that. Give me a player who excells no matter who is playing around him.

shula_guy
02-04-2007, 10:59 AM
Ever read how the Pat structure contracts? Extremely low base pay the stage incentives for reasonable preformance goals then high ($$) incentives for damn near a perfect season preformance goals. If a guy has a career year hes paid for it, and if he doesn't he gets........

Helluva way to manage your salary cap.



That sounds like a better way to me. Personaly Ild like to see the NFL get rid of the salary cap and revamp the way the money is dispersed by making the payouts a game by game thing. In other words one amount for the winning team, a lesser amount for the losing team, and the players contracts would be structured as precentages of the purse as opposed to garunteed money. This finacial setup will be an automatic salary cap and it will promote more team playing rather than showboating. IMO It would be a huge improvement to the sport.

PhinsRock
02-04-2007, 11:20 AM
Just another player hate thread disguised as a discussion. Poor choice of words for thread title IMO.

Geforce
02-04-2007, 11:49 AM
You got it backwards bro, the recievers are supposed to put themselves in position to catch the ball. However you might be on to something here. Maybe if we installed a remote control to Chambers the Qb could put him in position to catch the ball because he surely can't figure it out on his own!

I will agree with you here but at the same time a receiver cannot account for the inaccuracies of the QB. Like throwing the ball behind him, too far in front of him, too low, too high, too early or too late.

Phanatical
02-04-2007, 12:12 PM
So it's just a coincidence that Chambers' Pro Bowl year was the year we've had our best QB since Marino (Frerrotte)? Chambers has had CRAP for QBs man... :evil:

Good point.

ADDiKT
02-04-2007, 01:04 PM
Say what? Chambers wide open? When? Can't say I've ever seen it... :lol:

The sig is in support of my team, I want the team to get better and that means getting rid of all the guys that are just here to collect a paycheck.

That is what they do... By "They" I mean the Chambers Support Bureau (CSB)... The CSB will argue a point to death - when they feel as if you are making too much of a valid point - they will proceed to question your loyalty to the Dolphins. They don't realize that by wanting to keep the player instead of looking for a viable replacement - they are putting that player above the team. Since I NEVER do that, I question their loyalty!

BTW, Just look at his Avatar and Signature (the guy who questioned you)... There's a whole lot of Chambers on there, I still believe that's actually Chris Chambers himself...

RenoFinFan
02-04-2007, 01:37 PM
So if Chris is wide open and Joey throws the pass is thrown out of bounds, that's Chambers' fault because he wasn't in that position to catch the ball.
It is interesting how often your posts refer to Joey being the problem when it comes to Chambers poor production. Where your argument totally fall apart is that "all" three of our QBs struggled when throwing to Chambers...

Daunte Culpepper for season:

81 com 134 att 60.4% comp 929 yds 2 TD 3 INT 77 QB rating

Culpepper when throwing to Chambers:

16 comp 39 att 41% comp 181 yds 2 TD 1 INT 62 QB rating (2 TD were against soft defenses at end of games I might add)

Culpepper when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

65 comp 95 att 68.4% comp 748 yds 0 TD 2 INT 83.1 QB rating

Cleo Lemon for season:

38 com 68 att 55.8% comp 412 yds 2 TD 1 INT 77.6 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

3 comp 14 att 21.4% comp 39 yds 0 TD 0 INT 39.58 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

35 comp 57 att 64.8% comp 373 yds 2 TD 1 INT 86.41 QB rating

Joey Harrington for season:

223 comp 388 att 57.4% comp 2236 yds 12 TD 15 INT 68.2 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to Chambers:

40 comp 101 att 39.6% comp 457 yds 2 TD 8 INT 27.53 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

183 comp 287 att 63.76% comp 1779 yds 10 TD 7 INT 82.49 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon for season:

342 comp 590 att 57.9% comp 3577 yds 16 TD 19 INT 71.27 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

59 comp 154 att 38.3% comp 677 yds 4 TD 9 INT 36.63 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

283 comp 436 att 64.90% comp 2900 yds 12 TD 10 INT 83.5 QB rating

As you can see (if you are willing to) is that Chambers problem was not a Joey problem. When we have three QBs that have success when throwing to everyone not named Chambers and all three struggle when they throw to Chambers then who is the real problem?

I also keep reading in your posts is that if I don't support Daunte or Chambers then that somehow means I am not positive and a true Dolphin fan, but from what I have seen you may be the #1 Harrington basher and have called for him being cut. Since he also was wearing a Dolphin uniform this past year how is that not being "hypocritical?"

ADDiKT
02-04-2007, 01:41 PM
It is interesting how often your posts refer to Joey being the problem when it comes to Chambers poor production. Where your argument totally fall apart is that "all" three of our QBs struggled when throwing to Chambers...

Daunte Culpepper for season:

81 com 134 att 60.4% comp 929 yds 2 TD 3 INT 77 QB rating

Culpepper when throwing to Chambers:

16 comp 39 att 41% comp 181 yds 2 TD 1 INT 62 QB rating (2 TD were against soft defenses at end of games I might add)

Culpepper when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

65 comp 95 att 68.4% comp 748 yds 0 TD 2 INT 83.1 QB rating

Cleo Lemon for season:

38 com 68 att 55.8% comp 412 yds 2 TD 1 INT 77.6 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

3 comp 14 att 21.4% comp 39 yds 0 TD 0 INT 39.58 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

35 comp 57 att 64.8% comp 373 yds 2 TD 1 INT 86.41 QB rating

Joey Harrington for season:

223 comp 388 att 57.4% comp 2236 yds 12 TD 15 INT 68.2 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to Chambers:

40 comp 101 att 39.6% comp 457 yds 2 TD 8 INT 27.53 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

183 comp 287 att 63.76% comp 1779 yds 10 TD 7 INT 82.49 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon for season:

342 comp 590 att 57.9% comp 3577 yds 16 TD 19 INT 71.27 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

59 comp 154 att 38.3% comp 677 yds 4 TD 9 INT 36.63 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

283 comp 436 att 64.90% comp 2900 yds 12 TD 10 INT 83.5 QB rating

As you can see (if you are willing to) is that Chambers problem was not a Joey problem. When we have three QBs that have success when throwing to everyone not named Chambers and all three struggle when they throw to Chambers then who is the real problem?

I also keep reading in your posts is that if I don't support Daunte or Chambers then that somehow means I am not positive and a true Dolphin fan, but from what I have seen you may be the #1 Harrington basher and have called for him being cut. Since he also was wearing a Dolphin uniform this past year how is that not being "hypocritical?"

Good research... It will not be looked at favorable on these forums... BTW, your last paragraph is right on....

Geforce
02-04-2007, 04:04 PM
It is interesting how often your posts refer to Joey being the problem when it comes to Chambers poor production. Where your argument totally fall apart is that "all" three of our QBs struggled when throwing to Chambers...

Daunte Culpepper for season:

81 com 134 att 60.4% comp 929 yds 2 TD 3 INT 77 QB rating

Culpepper when throwing to Chambers:

16 comp 39 att 41% comp 181 yds 2 TD 1 INT 62 QB rating (2 TD were against soft defenses at end of games I might add)

Culpepper when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

65 comp 95 att 68.4% comp 748 yds 0 TD 2 INT 83.1 QB rating

Cleo Lemon for season:

38 com 68 att 55.8% comp 412 yds 2 TD 1 INT 77.6 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

3 comp 14 att 21.4% comp 39 yds 0 TD 0 INT 39.58 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

35 comp 57 att 64.8% comp 373 yds 2 TD 1 INT 86.41 QB rating

Joey Harrington for season:

223 comp 388 att 57.4% comp 2236 yds 12 TD 15 INT 68.2 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to Chambers:

40 comp 101 att 39.6% comp 457 yds 2 TD 8 INT 27.53 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

183 comp 287 att 63.76% comp 1779 yds 10 TD 7 INT 82.49 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon for season:

342 comp 590 att 57.9% comp 3577 yds 16 TD 19 INT 71.27 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

59 comp 154 att 38.3% comp 677 yds 4 TD 9 INT 36.63 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

283 comp 436 att 64.90% comp 2900 yds 12 TD 10 INT 83.5 QB rating

As you can see (if you are willing to) is that Chambers problem was not a Joey problem. When we have three QBs that have success when throwing to everyone not named Chambers and all three struggle when they throw to Chambers then who is the real problem?

I also keep reading in your posts is that if I don't support Daunte or Chambers then that somehow means I am not positive and a true Dolphin fan, but from what I have seen you may be the #1 Harrington basher and have called for him being cut. Since he also was wearing a Dolphin uniform this past year how is that not being "hypocritical?"

That's some good research and I applaud what you have done but I still have to ask the question. Could it possibly be that the numbers for the other receivers were as good because defenses focused on Chambers and not the others? I mean, how many times last year was any receiver not named Chambers doubled covered?
As it is with most defenses, if you take away what many would consider the most dangerous receiver, then the other receivers are working one-on-one and should be able to defeat their man.

GridIronKing34
02-04-2007, 04:17 PM
That is what they do... By "They" I mean the Chambers Support Bureau (CSB)... The CSB will argue a point to death - when they feel as if you are making too much of a valid point - they will proceed to question your loyalty to the Dolphins. They don't realize that by wanting to keep the player instead of looking for a viable replacement - they are putting that player above the team. Since I NEVER do that, I question their loyalty!

BTW, Just look at his Avatar and Signature (the guy who questioned you)... There's a whole lot of Chambers on there, I still believe that's actually Chris Chambers himself...

Fine... This what they do, by "they" I mean the Anti-Chambers Support Bureau (ACSB) do... The ACSB argue a point to death on why Chris Chambers shouldn't be on the Miami Dolphins and why he is the "worst WR in football today" no matter what statistics are brought up in Chambers favor. They will proceed to question your football knowledge because someone has a different view on a subject instead of understanding that people have different philospohies and ideas. They seem to put that player below the entire NFL. Since I NEVER do that, I question their loyalty!

BTW, look at my avatar. Because I am a fairly decent Chambers supporter, people may believe I am Chris Chambers himself. But in reality, it's a natural human tendency to pick a player out above the rest, everyone has their favorite player, whether they admit to it or not.

Give it a rest man.

bluehaze
02-04-2007, 04:20 PM
That's some good research and I applaud what you have done but I still have to ask the question. Could it possibly be that the numbers for the other receivers were as good because defenses focused on Chambers and not the others? I mean, how many times last year was any receiver not named Chambers doubled covered?
As it is with most defenses, if you take away what many would consider the most dangerous receiver, then the other receivers are working one-on-one and should be able to defeat their man.

There was a press conference with Harrington last year where they asked him if the reason Chambers wasn't getting the ball was due to double coverage and he said no. He said they all see pretty much the same coverage and he just throws the ball to whoever is open.

Geforce
02-04-2007, 04:23 PM
There was a press conference with Harrington last year where they asked him if the reason Chambers wasn't getting the ball was due to double coverage and he said no. He said they all see pretty much the same coverage and he just throws the ball to whoever is open.

Hmmm...maybe that's why Harrington throws so many interceptions? He doesn't recognize coverages the way he should.

GridIronKing34
02-04-2007, 04:26 PM
There was a press conference with Harrington last year where they asked him if the reason Chambers wasn't getting the ball was due to double coverage and he said no. He said they all see pretty much the same coverage and he just throws the ball to whoever is open.

Dude, I believe that was on during our win streak. Do you REALLY think Chambers is the kind of guy that will call out our quarterback, in all times, during a win streak? I don't think Chambers would say anything of the sort. You can't always take press conferences seriously... look at Nick Saban and his "I'm not going to be the head coach of Alabama.."

adamprez2003
02-04-2007, 04:26 PM
It is interesting how often your posts refer to Joey being the problem when it comes to Chambers poor production. Where your argument totally fall apart is that "all" three of our QBs struggled when throwing to Chambers...

Daunte Culpepper for season:

81 com 134 att 60.4% comp 929 yds 2 TD 3 INT 77 QB rating

Culpepper when throwing to Chambers:

16 comp 39 att 41% comp 181 yds 2 TD 1 INT 62 QB rating (2 TD were against soft defenses at end of games I might add)

Culpepper when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

65 comp 95 att 68.4% comp 748 yds 0 TD 2 INT 83.1 QB rating

Cleo Lemon for season:

38 com 68 att 55.8% comp 412 yds 2 TD 1 INT 77.6 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

3 comp 14 att 21.4% comp 39 yds 0 TD 0 INT 39.58 QB rating

Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

35 comp 57 att 64.8% comp 373 yds 2 TD 1 INT 86.41 QB rating

Joey Harrington for season:

223 comp 388 att 57.4% comp 2236 yds 12 TD 15 INT 68.2 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to Chambers:

40 comp 101 att 39.6% comp 457 yds 2 TD 8 INT 27.53 QB rating

Harrington when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

183 comp 287 att 63.76% comp 1779 yds 10 TD 7 INT 82.49 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon for season:

342 comp 590 att 57.9% comp 3577 yds 16 TD 19 INT 71.27 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to Chambers:

59 comp 154 att 38.3% comp 677 yds 4 TD 9 INT 36.63 QB rating

Total Culpepper / Harrington / Lemon when throwing to everyone not named Chambers:

283 comp 436 att 64.90% comp 2900 yds 12 TD 10 INT 83.5 QB rating

As you can see (if you are willing to) is that Chambers problem was not a Joey problem. When we have three QBs that have success when throwing to everyone not named Chambers and all three struggle when they throw to Chambers then who is the real problem?

I also keep reading in your posts is that if I don't support Daunte or Chambers then that somehow means I am not positive and a true Dolphin fan, but from what I have seen you may be the #1 Harrington basher and have called for him being cut. Since he also was wearing a Dolphin uniform this past year how is that not being "hypocritical?"

Game set match. It was obvious to me the problem was Chambers abiltiy to get seperation. Whether the problem is Chambers or the playcalling it wasnt the QBs who were at fault. Add the countless number of drops when they did getb him the ball and Chambers deserves alot of the criticism but maybe not all of it. To me its Chmabers Mularkey 50/50

Geforce
02-04-2007, 04:29 PM
Game set match. It was obvious to me the problem was Chambers abiltiy to get seperation. Whether the problem is Chambers or the playcalling it wasnt the QBs who were at fault. Add the countless number of drops when they did getb him the ball and Chambers deserves alot of the criticism but maybe not all of it. To me its Chmabers Mularkey 50/50

You used to have some very good points but this one is just not one of them.

adamprez2003
02-04-2007, 04:32 PM
You used to have some very good points but this one is just not one of them.

Yeah maybe I was too forgiving but I stand behind the biggest problem was his seperation. So i'll redo the ratio

Chambers 40%
Mularkey 40%
QBs 20%

Bottom line he wasnt getting seperation all year long. Granted there were times when he did and the QBs missed him but more often he was covered like a blanket

bluehaze
02-04-2007, 04:38 PM
Hmmm...maybe that's why Harrington throws so many interceptions? He doesn't recognize coverages the way he should.

:shakeno: If you followed the Dolphins at all this year you would know that was Harrington's strong point. Just about every opposing QB he played commented on how good his reads were.

bluehaze
02-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Dude, I believe that was on during our win streak. Do you REALLY think Chambers is the kind of guy that will call out our quarterback, in all times, during a win streak? I don't think Chambers would say anything of the sort. You can't always take press conferences seriously... look at Nick Saban and his "I'm not going to be the head coach of Alabama.."

He did several times during the season first lamenting the loss of Frerotte essentially slamming Culpepper, then lamenting the loss of Culpepper essentially slamming Harrington, then later proclaiming Culpepper to be his future QB slamming Harrington again. Chris Chambers makes more excuses for his poor play than you guys do :lol:

Geforce
02-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Yeah maybe I was too forgiving but I stand behind the biggest problem was his seperation. So i'll redo the ratio

Chambers 40%
Mularkey 40%
QBs 20%

Bottom line he wasnt getting seperation all year long. Granted there were times when he did and the QBs missed him but more often he was covered like a blanket

I would have put it more at
Chambers 25%
QBs 25%
Mularkey 50%

The playcalling was too predictable at that more than anything allowed defense to dictate what our offense could do.

bluehaze
02-04-2007, 04:44 PM
I would have put it more at
Chambers 25%
QBs 25%
Mularkey 50%

The playcalling was too predictable at that more than anything allowed defense to dictate what our offense could do.

Judging by the fact that Chambers has always sucked regardless of who the Qb was or the coordinator I would say it's 100% Chambers.

Even in Chambers pro bowl season, had Wes Welker seen the same number of passes he would have surpassed him by close to 400 yards.

RenoFinFan
02-04-2007, 04:45 PM
That's some good research and I applaud what you have done but I still have to ask the question. Could it possibly be that the numbers for the other receivers were as good because defenses focused on Chambers and not the others? I mean, how many times last year was any receiver not named Chambers doubled covered?
As it is with most defenses, if you take away what many would consider the most dangerous receiver, then the other receivers are working one-on-one and should be able to defeat their man.
You do bring up some good points. However, my understanding is that defenses started to roll coverage toward Booker as the season progressed bc he became, in a sense, the #1 WR. I can also recall seeing Chambers on many occasions have one-on-one coverage and not have separation and make the catch.

The other point to make is that other teams #1 WR are faced with the same dilemma of being covered by the opposing teams top DB and/or double-coverage. The WRs whom would have faced probably the most similar coverage would be #1 WRs in our own division and their numbers...

Lee Evans...
82 catches 137 attmepts (60%) 1292 yards 8 TD

Laveranues Coles...
91 catches 151 attempts (60%) 1098 yards 6 TD

Reche Caldwell...
61 catches 102 attempts (60%) 760 yards 4 TD

Chris Chambers...
59 catches 154 attempts (38%) 677 yards 4 TD

Wow...QBs tried to get the ball to Chambers more than any other #1 WR in our division (keep in mind when he is compared to players like Harrison, Holt, etc... it gets even worse) and the discrepancy in production when comparing Chambers to them is mind-boggling. The only player he compares well to is "Reche Caldwell" and that was on 52 less attempts.

So the problem when defending Chambers, as I see it, is not only does he not compare well to our other WRs regardless of who is throwing to him, but he also doesn't compare well to other #1 WRs. It is not like other WRs are just a "little" better, but they are a "LOT" better. So who is really the problem? I think it is clear.

adamprez2003
02-04-2007, 04:46 PM
I would have put it more at
Chambers 25%
QBs 25%
Mularkey 50%

The playcalling was too predictable at that more than anything allowed defense to dictate what our offense could do.

I hated the playcalling. We didnt use enough crossing routes with Chambers. It seemed that half the plays called it was just him flying down the sideline. Mularkey definitely deserves a huge amount of blame. My complaint with Chambers was mostly for 2006. It seemed he somewhat gave up on the season. Hopefully he comes back strong under Cameron

bluehaze
02-04-2007, 04:49 PM
I hated the playcalling. We didnt use enough crossing routes with Chambers. It seemed that half the plays called it was just him flying down the sideline. Mularkey definitely deserves a huge amount of blame. My complaint with Chambers was mostly for 2006. It seemed he somewhat gave up on the season. Hopefully he comes back strong under Cameron

Ever since Chambers took that big hit way back when I think it was against the Bengals? Don't remember but he has been scared of coming accross the middle. If you notice he is always on the outside of his defender never even tries to get inside just simply runs along the sideline.

Geforce
02-04-2007, 04:50 PM
:shakeno: If you followed the Dolphins at all this year you would know that was Harrington's strong point. Just about every opposing QB he played commented on how good his reads were.

If reading coverages was a strong point of Harrington's, then how do you explain all the interceptions? He was either misreading what was going on, trying to force things or throwing late to the receivers. What he did do well was the short, quick passes (3-5 step drops) where he didn't have to think as much.

Geforce
02-04-2007, 04:54 PM
Judging by the fact that Chambers has always sucked regardless of who the Qb was or the coordinator I would say it's 100% Chambers.

Even in Chambers pro bowl season, had Wes Welker seen the same number of passes he would have surpassed him by close to 400 yards.

Always sucked?? You don't become 6th in the league in TD receptions since 2001 if you always sucked.
Had Welker seen the same number of passes, he would be the #1 WR on the team and defenses would be doubling him and you and others would be saying we need to trade him and find a true #1 WR.

bluehaze
02-04-2007, 05:00 PM
If reading coverages was a strong point of Harrington's, then how do you explain all the interceptions? He was either misreading what was going on, trying to force things or throwing late to the receivers. What he did do well was the short, quick passes (3-5 step drops) where he didn't have to think as much.

Because 75% of the interceptions were balls thrown Chambers way and the guy has no idea how to place himself between the defender and the ball. Doesn't ever get seperation and doesn't fight for the ball. As I watched him play I almost got the feeling that at times he wanted Harrington to get intercepted. I remember specifically one particular instance in the rain I think it was the Bills game Harrington threw a bullet at Chambers about 20 yards out Chambers was running full speed he stopped for a second in perfect position to make the catch then took a few more steps getting behind the defender and the ball get's intercepted. It certainly looked intentional stopping in perfect position then moving out of the way, don't know if he was afraid of getting hit or just wanted to see Harrington get intercepted but it was ridiculous no matter how you look at it. There are several examples of this throughout the year not just in the Bills game.

bluehaze
02-04-2007, 05:02 PM
Always sucked?? You don't become 6th in the league in TD receptions since 2001 if you always sucked.
Had Welker seen the same number of passes, he would be the #1 WR on the team and defenses would be doubling him and you and others would be saying we need to trade him and find a true #1 WR.

:link:

We already covered the doubling issue, it only exist in your imagination.