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kwh924
02-03-2007, 04:34 PM
WR Micheal Irvin
RB THurman Thomas
OL Bruce Matthews
DB Roger Wehrli
TE Charlie Sanders
G Gene Hickerson



I can't believe they can keep leaving off Art Monk and Derrick Thomas while they still elt some of these people in.

BAMAPHIN 22
02-03-2007, 05:04 PM
WR Micheal Irvin
RB THurman Thomas
OL Bruce Matthews
DB Roger Wehrli
TE Charlie Sanders
G Gene Hickerson



I can't believe they can keep leaving off Art Monk and Derrick Thomas while they still elt some of these people in.


Also, Bob Kuechenberg being snubbed.:confused:

Alex44
02-03-2007, 05:06 PM
I can't believe Irvin got in before Monk. I love Michael, he is a Hurricane and a great player, but (In commercial form where the words come on the screen and you wait for the next ones)

Before There was Jerry Rice....

There was one man

Who shattered records and made plays

That mans name....

Art Monk.

Crisis
02-03-2007, 05:08 PM
Congrats Thurman.

Monk and Reed should get in soon.

HysterikiLL
02-03-2007, 05:19 PM
Dicky Dent got snubbed again. It really peeves me off when guys like Snortin' Mike get in over class act guys like Dent who really deserve to be there. Snort was a great player, but he smeared the NFL's image since leaving the game.

Prophet
02-03-2007, 05:20 PM
Screw Micheal Irvin, that ******* cost me a lot of coin during the girls run.

Amars
02-03-2007, 06:13 PM
Art Monk robbed again. Reed benefited from the Kgun offense

Crisis
02-03-2007, 08:01 PM
Art Monk robbed again. Reed benefited from the Kgun offense

Reed 4th in receptions all-time, 6th all-time in yards.

He definately deserves to go.

Alex44
02-04-2007, 03:14 AM
Reed 4th in receptions all-time, 6th all-time in yards.

He definately deserves to go.

I kinda agree.

It's that logic that is also keeping Monk out the 'He benefited from the players around him' arguement. Jerry Rice had some great QB's and teams around him, neither the system a guy played in or the guys he player with should take ANYTHING away from a guys greatness.

ih8brady
02-04-2007, 07:28 AM
Reed not making it was a bit of a shock. Thurman Thomas deserves to get in, but out of the two, I think Reed deserves it more.

finfansince72
02-04-2007, 08:37 AM
Also, Bob Kuechenberg being snubbed.:confused:

Im not sure why they keep snubbing Kooch but its getting absurd at this point. He and Monk not making it every year just amazes me.

MikeO
02-04-2007, 12:02 PM
Congrats Thurman.

Monk and Reed should get in soon.


I don't see Reed ever getting in.

MikeO
02-04-2007, 12:03 PM
WR Micheal Irvin
RB THurman Thomas
OL Bruce Matthews
DB Roger Wehrli
TE Charlie Sanders
G Gene Hickerson



I can't believe they can keep leaving off Art Monk and Derrick Thomas while they still elt some of these people in.

Derrick Thomas will get in I think his problem this year was that Reggie White (another dead guy with a ton of sacks) got in last year. They probably don't want back-to-back emotional moments like that. Put some time inbetween them.

B-LO, BABY
02-04-2007, 06:14 PM
I don't see Reed ever getting in.He's in the top 10 of all major receiving statistics, and is arguably the best run-after-catch WR in history.

You know the famous Steelers Hall of Fame WR duo Lynn Swann and John Stallworth? Reed has more catches than both of them combined.

Alex44
02-04-2007, 06:16 PM
He's in the top 10 of all major receiving statistics, and is arguably the best run-after-catch WR in history.

You know the famous Steelers Hall of Fame WR duo Lynn Swann and John Stallworth? Reed has more catches than both of them combined.

To be fair they played in a pretty run heavy era. That said I dont think the HOF is only about stats, it's also the impact you made on the field. Reed and Monk should be in.

MARINO1384
02-04-2007, 06:17 PM
I can't believe Irvin got in before Monk. I love Michael, he is a Hurricane and a great player, but (In commercial form where the words come on the screen and you wait for the next ones)

Before There was Jerry Rice....

There was one man

Who shattered records and made plays

That mans name....

Art Monk.

No that's wrong...Irvin deserves that spot and if you want to argue who deserves it more, well if you look strickly at on-field performance, your not thinking if you say Monk was better. While i believe Monk belongs in the Hall of Fame and should of been there years ago, i don't believe he deserves it over Irvin. Irvin has 2 more yards per reception,800 less yards and 3 less td's then Monk....and here's what puts them apart.....Irvin did all that in 65 less games then Monk. 65 less games!! that's pretty incredible.

Alex44
02-04-2007, 06:23 PM
No that's wrong...Irvin deserves that spot and if you want to argue who deserves it more, well if you look strickly at on-field performance, your not thinking if you say Monk was better. While i believe Monk belongs in the Hall of Fame and should of been there years ago, i don't believe he deserves it over Irvin. Irvin has 2 more yards per reception,800 less yards and 3 less td's then Monk....and here's what puts them apart.....Irvin did all that in 65 less games then Monk. 65 less games!! that's pretty incredible.

Monk was a possesion WR of course his YPC wasn't as high, he also played on an offense with a lot of other good players so he also scored less TD. Irvin was the guy for Dallas and their main WR. Washington actually spread the ball around to multiple guys. He didnt have to score as many TD's as Irvin did.

Not to mention Monk was drafted in 1980 when the league was still pretty run heavy, by the time Irvin was drafted in 88 it had just started to shift to big passing games with Marino and Elway at the helm of their teams and putting up huge numbers. Monk was already about 5 years into his career when the league started to shift towards the pass.

It's not all about numbers, but if you want to use numbers.....940 receptions. That 190 more than Irvin. That makes up for less yards per catch, and like I said Monks job wasnt to be a TD machine, he was a possesion WR and probably the best possesion WR all time and that should be rewarded.

finfansince72
02-04-2007, 11:44 PM
He's in the top 10 of all major receiving statistics, and is arguably the best run-after-catch WR in history.

You know the famous Steelers Hall of Fame WR duo Lynn Swann and John Stallworth? Reed has more catches than both of them combined.

Swann and Stallworth never deserved it. Good players on great teams thats it, not great players. I agree that Reed should get in but really WRs have a hard time for some strange reason. Its easier to get in as a TE than WR.

PewterKrew
02-05-2007, 01:02 PM
Yes, I am kind of suprised that Art Monk, did not make it this year i thought that Monk would get in this year for sure. Even with all the off-field problems ivRin has had in the past i was a little suprised that he was in this fast

Enforcerfin33
02-05-2007, 04:14 PM
Yes, I am kind of suprised that Art Monk, did not make it this year i thought that Monk would get in this year for sure. Even with all the off-field problems ivRin has had in the past i was a little suprised that he was in this fast
Monk should have got in before Irvin.

Mr.Majestik
02-06-2007, 12:39 AM
Monk was a possesion WR of course his YPC wasn't as high, he also played on an offense with a lot of other good players so he also scored less TD. Irvin was the guy for Dallas and their main WR. Washington actually spread the ball around to multiple guys. He didnt have to score as many TD's as Irvin did.

Not to mention Monk was drafted in 1980 when the league was still pretty run heavy, by the time Irvin was drafted in 88 it had just started to shift to big passing games with Marino and Elway at the helm of their teams and putting up huge numbers. Monk was already about 5 years into his career when the league started to shift towards the pass.

It's not all about numbers, but if you want to use numbers.....940 receptions. That 190 more than Irvin. That makes up for less yards per catch, and like I said Monks job wasnt to be a TD machine, he was a possesion WR and probably the best possesion WR all time and that should be rewarded.

Michael Irvin was a possession receiver. Monk was a possession receiver. Tough catches over the middle. Never a burner. King of the push-off. Monk has 190 more catches then Irvin, in 65 more games! During the Cowboys run in the early ninties, during Irvin's All-Pro years, he shared the ball with Jay Novacek, Emmitt Smith, Daryl Johnston, Kelvin Martin and Alvin Harper. During Monk's All-Pro years, there was not a single Pro Bowler at any skill position other then himself. I don't know how much you know about those early Joe Gibbs' coached teams, but I remember them well from beating the Fins in Super Bowl 17, and never a more mediocre collection of players has prevailed in a SB. You know who was catching passes opposite Monk when he was going to the Pro Bowl (he only went to three of them, early in his long career?) Virgil Seay, Calvin Muhummad, Rick Walker, Clint Didier and Charlie Brown. Guys like Seay, Brown and Alvin Garrett were known as "The Smurfs", because no one knew their names otherwise. Like the Three Amigos in Denver, you get an A-plus if you can name them without looking it up on Google. The best player other then Monk in the Redskins' passing attack in those years was a washed up Joe Washington, later Ricky Sanders and Gary Clark came along, but to say that Monk had to share the ball more then Irvin is an absurdity.

Monk is known for breaking the single-season record for receptions in 1984, a record that has since been demolished many times. Every other receiver, tight end and running back on that team, 16 other players, only caught 190. Monk was the entire passing offense in those years. Irvin was never that large a focus in Dallas. When they went 13-3, Kelvin Martin, Jay Novacek and Alvin Harper combined caught twice as many passes as Irvin, and that doesn't include Johnston, or Emmitt Smith who had 90 more.

When Monk entered the league it wasn't the pass-happy NFL it would become later in the decade, but Monk played for Joe Gibbs who was a disciple of Don Coryell in San Diego. Gibbs had been the Chargers's OC when they fielded the greatest passing offense in history up to that point. The Redskins set a league record in 1983 for points scored, so it's not fair to say that Monk was hampered by a league that didn't pass much. His numbers fell as the league became more pass-centered. Monk was effective early on because he was a freak, he was huge, 6-3, 210 pounds, that's huge by today's standards, back then it was unheard of. I've heard all the argument for Monk's induction by the most knowledgable of advocates, indeed, Monk is assigned an advocate at HOF induction meetings. Someone stands up in front of the media selectors and gives a long, detailed presentation, often with the aid of video, and guess what, most of the selectors aren't convinced. For this reason it's amusing to hear fans bellow about ignorant selectors snubbing deserving players, when it is in fact fans who are usually grossly ignorant.

Kuechenberg is up for induction at a position where every other player from that era who is in the HOF was inducted with at least 6 All-Pro selections each, Kooch only had 2. Kooch in fact played on some AFC Pro Bowl teams with some offensive tackles (the much more difficult position to play) who earned as many All-Pro honors as Kooch did, and are never even nominated for HOF honors.