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View Full Version : Dwayne Jarrett v. Ted Ginn, Jr.



Lab3003
02-03-2007, 08:25 PM
Here are two videos. Watch them and then vote who you'd rather have at #9.

WGyrgqOKZLg

R_aByLgotfY

TotoreMexico
02-03-2007, 08:32 PM
Draft forum

I don't want a Wr in the 1st unless is CJ

Lab3003
02-03-2007, 08:39 PM
How do I move a threat to another forum?

TotoreMexico
02-03-2007, 08:41 PM
How do I move a threat to another forum?

You can't, the mods will do it for you

wazzy
02-03-2007, 09:04 PM
Jarret- If we want to have a lot more stability hands wise

Ginn- If we want speed and a possible big playmaker

Its tough either one I would like but I don't want to spend a first round pick on either of these guys! Somehow if Jarret or Ginn can fall to the second I would want them in a second!

SQuinn17
02-03-2007, 09:08 PM
jarrett runs awesome routes in that video

Regan21286
02-03-2007, 09:45 PM
If we're looking for a #1 WR who can be a go-to guy for a QB, Jarrett's the prototypical one. Not super fast but who is fast enough, runs great routes, and has sure hands.

If we're looking for a #2 WR who will just spread the field, Ginn's the speed demon. Better return guy also. But he does fumble a bit and tends to disappear sometimes in games.

jason8er
02-03-2007, 10:19 PM
I'll take Jarrett. I've been real leerie about track guys turning football player since San Fran's Renaldo Nehemiah experiment, and practically every other one since.

Fresh
02-03-2007, 10:21 PM
While I absolutely love Ted Ginn as a prospect, I kind've prefer Dwayne Jarrett because I think he has what it takes to be a superstar #1 WR in this league. Ginn is more of a #2 WR who is ultra explosive and can be an elite KR/PR as well. I'd be happy with Ginn, but I'd be overly excited about Jarrett.........

IMO, unless Brady Quinn slips, we should take Jarrett or Ginn.

LtDan
02-03-2007, 10:25 PM
sorry guys....I made the homer pick

Finsfan79
02-03-2007, 10:31 PM
Jarrett, Bowe, Meachma, CJ are all ebtter then Ginn Jr. I dont want any of them but CJ in the 1st

finfan54
02-03-2007, 10:33 PM
um, I have a new respect for Ginn. I can see why his game stats are comparable to Gonzalez. Its cus he makes all his plays running the ball or PR/KR. If we do not resign Welker, this could be the reason why.

endorPHINS72
02-03-2007, 10:38 PM
Two very good college players, but I'm not sold on either one of them as first round picks. Jarrett reminds me a bit of Mike Williams (remember how high everyone was on him?) and I don't think Ginn is polished enough at this point to warrant a high 1st round pick.

Dj Shoj
02-03-2007, 10:49 PM
First of all I wanna say Thanks for the Thread (great).I will take ted Just cause of the SPEED, wow I have never ever seen somebody this fast in any sport, his speed is something that cannot be taught..period, I just imagine my beloved team with an offensive weapon like this, the dimmensions will be endless.:cooldude:

Vertical Limit
02-03-2007, 10:57 PM
Jarrett, Bowe, Meachma, CJ are all ebtter then Ginn Jr. I dont want any of them but CJ in the 1st
You can add Sidney Rice in that list too.

phinphan4life
02-03-2007, 11:00 PM
While Ginn is obviously a phenomenal athlete and is a gamebreaker, I still would prefer Jarrett. He runs excellent routes, and seems to catch everything with his hands, instead of allowing it to get to his body. But I wouldn't want a receiver at #9 unless it was Calvin Johnson.

alienalias
02-03-2007, 11:11 PM
Draft forum

I don't want a Wr in the 1st unless is CJ
Exactly, dead-on bro! CJ or no WR... but put a gun to my head and ask Ginn or Jarrett? DJ!

daniel3
02-03-2007, 11:20 PM
trade chambers and draft both.

alienalias
02-04-2007, 12:47 AM
trade chambers and draft both.
Hilarious!! But at the same time, I wouldn't cry if it happened! With ya bro...

Geforce
02-04-2007, 12:49 AM
Dwayne Jarrett, prototypical possession receiver who at times has struggled against physical corners or Ted Ginn, Jr, world class speedster who is unpolished as a receiver? I would take either one but right now neither is worthy of the #9 pick.

Motion
02-04-2007, 01:06 AM
Neither

RenoFinFan
02-04-2007, 03:21 AM
Dwayne Jarrett, prototypical possession receiver who at times has struggled against physical corners or Ted Ginn, Jr, world class speedster who is unpolished as a receiver? I would take either one but right now neither is worthy of the #9 pick.

I have heard a few make the claim that Jarrett struggled against physical corners. Exactly what corners did he struggle against? The only time he wasn't solid this year is when he got injured in the Arizona game and he wasn't healthy for next couple of weeks. The most physical corners / secondary he has gone up against was probably Texas in the 06 Championship game and Michigan in this years Rose Bowl. His numbers...

against Texas a secondary that included Huff, Griffin, Ross...
10 catches 121 yards 1 TD

against Michigan a secondary that included Hall...
11 catches 205 yards 2 TD

I will take a WR that struggles like that any day of the week. Definitely worthy of being drafted #9 IMO.

Alex44
02-04-2007, 03:23 AM
David Ball > Every other WR in this draft

Jarrett > Ginn

If we were to take Jarrett I wouldnt mind, as long as we traded down to do so and got some extra picks.

NorFlaFin
02-04-2007, 07:50 AM
Dwayne Jarrett, prototypical possession receiver who at times has struggled against physical corners or Ted Ginn, Jr, world class speedster who is unpolished as a receiver? I would take either one but right now neither is worthy of the #9 pick.

Exactly, although Jarett has more potential simply due his physical size.

Lab3003
02-04-2007, 10:05 AM
I have heard a few make the claim that Jarrett struggled against physical corners. Exactly what corners did he struggle against? The only time he wasn't solid this year is when he got injured in the Arizona game and he wasn't healthy for next couple of weeks. The most physical corners / secondary he has gone up against was probably Texas in the 06 Championship game and Michigan in this years Rose Bowl. His numbers...

against Texas a secondary that included Huff, Griffin, Ross...
10 catches 121 yards 1 TD

against Michigan a secondary that included Hall...
11 catches 205 yards 2 TD

I will take a WR that struggles like that any day of the week. Definitely worthy of being drafted #9 IMO.

Interesting...

outlawd2u
02-04-2007, 10:57 AM
Well....... if Ginn gets ANY separation(even in the NFL) he's gone for 6, or even if he catches the ball with some space he prolly makes a moves and is GONE. If Jarret has 3 yards of separation he probably gets caught, but if you throw up a jump ball Jarret has a good chance of coming down with it. Jarrett would be a Great red zone threat and would make a lot of plays on the way to the endzone, but Ginn can score from anywhere on the field....... and that includes KR's, and PR's. I'd take Ginn, but I don't think you can go wrong with either of these guys and YES I think they're both worthy of the #9 pick!!!

Geforce
02-04-2007, 11:10 AM
I have heard a few make the claim that Jarrett struggled against physical corners. Exactly what corners did he struggle against? The only time he wasn't solid this year is when he got injured in the Arizona game and he wasn't healthy for next couple of weeks. The most physical corners / secondary he has gone up against was probably Texas in the 06 Championship game and Michigan in this years Rose Bowl. His numbers...

against Texas a secondary that included Huff, Griffin, Ross...
10 catches 121 yards 1 TD

against Michigan a secondary that included Hall...
11 catches 205 yards 2 TD

I will take a WR that struggles like that any day of the week. Definitely worthy of being drafted #9 IMO.

This is from DwayneJarrettOnline


Is Dwayne Jarrett ready?

Dwayne Jarrett has at times made opposing defenses look like child's play in amassing a Pac-10-record 39 touchdown catches. His 205 receptions is two shy of Colbert's school career record. Last month against Notre Dame, he caught seven passes for 132 yards and three touchdowns.

Still, Dwayne Jarrett will have to answer questions from the NFL about his durability — he was nagged this season by shoulder and quadriceps injuries — and his willingness to be physical. Offensive coordinator Lane Kiffin criticized him after Arkansas cornerbacks jammed him at the line of scrimmage in the season opener, and Dwayne Jarrett dropped three passes against Arizona
Any possession-type receiver with question marks about him being physical is not the one you should be looking at.
Until reading this again, I forgot about those nagging injuries he had last year. I hope for his sake that it's not something that's going to bother him throughout his career.

yesac1354
02-04-2007, 12:02 PM
i like the speed, it would be nice to have on madden "lol"

Crowder52
02-04-2007, 12:12 PM
This is from DwayneJarrettOnline

Any possession-type receiver with question marks about him being physical is not the one you should be looking at.
Until reading this again, I forgot about those nagging injuries he had last year. I hope for his sake that it's not something that's going to bother him throughout his career.

Just looked up his stats from the Arkansas game - 5 rec 34 yds 0 td. Never realized how badly he got shut down against the only SEC defense he played this past year. Makes you wonder...

marcodolphin
02-04-2007, 01:57 PM
ginn

Vegas dolfan
02-04-2007, 04:26 PM
Ginn,
He will make the team better, because he will make the saftey stay back and not cheat up, thus helping the run and helping Chambers and Booker get open more. When they do cheat up Ginn will run past them for a easy 6 points. Jarrett is a great wr and remindes me of Chambers but we need speed. He is better than Welker cause he is taller and faster with better moves.

PhinGeneral
02-04-2007, 04:37 PM
Any possession-type receiver with question marks about him being physical is not the one you should be looking at.
Until reading this again, I forgot about those nagging injuries he had last year. I hope for his sake that it's not something that's going to bother him throughout his career.

I think Keyshawn Johnson is on record as saying he didn't believe Jarrett was physical enough yet for the NFL.

CANDolphan
02-04-2007, 04:48 PM
Ginn,
He will make the team better, because he will make the saftey stay back and not cheat up, thus helping the run and helping Chambers and Booker get open more. When they do cheat up Ginn will run past them for a easy 6 points. Jarrett is a great wr and remindes me of Chambers but we need speed. He is better than Welker cause he is taller and faster with better moves.

What?

Chambers is more like Ginn if anything. I swear, 90% of the " x reminds me of so and so! " are the dumbest things you people post. How in the world does Dwayne Jarret, a posession receiver, remind you of Chris Chambers, a leaping track star who turned into a wide receiver? 6'4 vs 5'11, 4.5x forty vs 4.3x forty?

Vegas dolfan
02-04-2007, 05:36 PM
Cause he doesnt have world class speed like Ginn. He catches everything like Chambers and can jump. Just compairing the two I see Ginn a better fit

SR 7
02-04-2007, 05:59 PM
wahts the name of that song in Ginns video?

phins3454
02-04-2007, 06:02 PM
Dwayne Jarret or Ted Ginn?



NEITHER!

Alex44
02-04-2007, 06:02 PM
Cause he doesnt have world class speed like Ginn. He catches everything like Chambers and can jump. Just compairing the two I see Ginn a better fit

Chambers and Jarrett is a horrible comparison.

Jarrett is about 6'5 while Chambers is 5'11
Jarrett runs about a 4.5/4.6 while Chambers runs a 4.3/4.4
Jarrett isnt the jumped Chambers is either, he just gets to high balls due to height.

Ginn has world class speed but I'll take a guy that actually knows how to play receiver over a guy who just runs fast.

Vegas dolfan
02-04-2007, 06:36 PM
not me but I bet we draft a lineman anyways, I want to see the dolphins of old where they score a ton and people are afraid to have our offense on the field

Zeke0123
02-04-2007, 08:29 PM
His return ability does it for me.. I say if we have to choose from these 2 its Ginn for me.

VT Dolphan
02-04-2007, 11:25 PM
If we stay at nine, I wouldn't draft either of those two. Drafting wide receivers in the first round generally isn't a very safe investment, and it appears that Calvin Johnson is the only sure thing at the position this year. I wouldn't draft Ginn unless he slipped to the second round, but thats not gonna happen. If we could trade down towards the middle of the first, I think Jarrett is worth a look if he is still there, but I'd prefer to go with Levi Brown or someone else.

Webb78OLman
02-04-2007, 11:57 PM
Two very good college players, but I'm not sold on either one of them as first round picks. Jarrett reminds me a bit of Mike Williams (remember how high everyone was on him?) and I don't think Ginn is polished enough at this point to warrant a high 1st round pick.

I don't understand why everyone tries to compare Jarrett to Mike Williams and say he will fail just like Williams did. Has everyone forgotten that Williams didn't play football for a year before the draft? I would much rather have Jarrett on my team than Ginn. I'd be very happy with Chambers (yes he hasn't been great, but he has the skills) as our #1 guy (for now) and Jarrett as our #2 guy. Of course, I'd much rather draft an offensive lineman, but no one is worth the #9 pick.

VT Dolphan
02-05-2007, 12:08 AM
I don't understand why everyone tries to compare Jarrett to Mike Williams and say he will fail just like Williams did. Has everyone forgotten that Williams didn't play football for a year before the draft? I would much rather have Jarrett on my team than Ginn. I'd be very happy with Chambers (yes he hasn't been great, but he has the skills) as our #1 guy (for now) and Jarrett as our #2 guy. Of course, I'd much rather draft an offensive lineman, but no one is worth the #9 pick.

I agree with what you say about Jarrett. Had he played at the U, I wonder how often he'd get compared to Mike Williams.

Static387
02-05-2007, 01:00 AM
Id love to have either after trading down a few spots and picking up another 3rd/4th.

PewterKrew
02-05-2007, 04:15 AM
Jarrett has better hands and is a more polished route runner and will be able to take the pounding going over the middle. Ginn has the speed and upside but his frame may not hold up in the NFL. Ginn seems to drop easy catches and has been nicked up a bit in his career. Will Ginn be able to add bilk with out lossing any of his speed is the question? and will Jarrett be able to gain sepration vs. press coverage in the NFL?

Jaj
02-05-2007, 04:52 AM
Jarrett is a polished route runner? Since when?

Honestly I'm in favor of signing a free agent or drafting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd.

One free agent who comes to mind is Lelie, who had a down year but can run routes and has TREMENDOUS speed.

clbrazee
02-05-2007, 10:30 AM
IMO Jarrett provides a possible #1 for the future. Ginn is a number 2 or three later on, a return guy at first - too high for him at 9.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 11:29 AM
Jarrett is a polished route runner? Since when?

Honestly I'm in favor of signing a free agent or drafting a WR in the 2nd or 3rd.

One free agent who comes to mind is Lelie, who had a down year but can run routes and has TREMENDOUS speed.
Wow...you don't think Jarrett is a polished route runner, but think Lelie is? During his career QBs have completed 48.8% of the passes they have thrown to Lelie. Hardly the numbers of a polished route runner. Especially considering he never has been a #1...very poor indeed. We already have a WR that puts up those exact numbers in completion percentage in Chambers at 49% for his career. I can't think of a worse WR to add to this team. An even bigger problem with Lelie is he is allergic to the end zone.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 11:41 AM
I don't understand why everyone tries to compare Jarrett to Mike Williams and say he will fail just like Williams did. Has everyone forgotten that Williams didn't play football for a year before the draft? I would much rather have Jarrett on my team than Ginn. I'd be very happy with Chambers (yes he hasn't been great, but he has the skills) as our #1 guy (for now) and Jarrett as our #2 guy. Of course, I'd much rather draft an offensive lineman, but no one is worth the #9 pick.
Agree...anyone comparing Jarrett to Williams must be oblivious to the situation Williams arrived in the NFL. He played two years in college and then had to sit a year as he tried to slide into the NFL off of the Maurice Clarret situation. The NFL didn't let him in and the NCAA wouldn't let him play bc he declared and if memory serves me correctly he got an agent. During his year off Williams ballooned in weight. In fact, some analysts were saying he had become more of a TE than WR. Furthermore, he went to the worst possible organization he could in Detroit. I recall a Michael Smith (ESPN) article when he interviewed Matt Millen during Williams rookie year and asked him if it was true Williams would show up late to meetings and Millen responded something to the effect of, "He is only a kid and boys will be boys." Not a good approach for a young man who obviously already had a tough time disciplining himself.

So how does all this relate to Jarrett? IT DOESN'T! Where the comparisons come from is beyond me outside of they both played at USC.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 11:52 AM
This is from DwayneJarrettOnline

Any possession-type receiver with question marks about him being physical is not the one you should be looking at.
Until reading this again, I forgot about those nagging injuries he had last year. I hope for his sake that it's not something that's going to bother him throughout his career.

The good news is the injury this year only effected him for 3 games so it wasn't one of those nagging injuries. Considering Jarrett played full-time and mostly as the teams #1 as an 18, 19, and 20 year old and that was the only time an injury affected his play bodes well for him. I definitely think "injury prone" would be an unfair label to place on the kid (not saying you did).

As far as the comments by his OC it is possible that was used for motivation purposes. Unfortunately, something like that can get generalized and used against him. My opinion is based on the "fact" that when he played in the big games and against secondaries considered to be fast, physical and elite (Texas, Michigan) is when he stepped his level of play up. Of course, there was also that catch from Lienhart pass in his Sophomore year against ND on a 4th and long (can't remember the exact distance) and he made the big catch that led to the winning TD in what some consider the be one of the best college games ever. Considering Chambers steps his play down in big moments I would love to get Dwayne "big time" Jarrett on this team...a definite upgrade.

musphinzfan
02-05-2007, 11:54 AM
although Sidney Rice isnt on the list thats who I want!!

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 11:58 AM
Just looked up his stats from the Arkansas game - 5 rec 34 yds 0 td. Never realized how badly he got shut down against the only SEC defense he played this past year. Makes you wonder...
He also went up against Arkansas in his sophomore year and had 4 catches for 79 yards and 2 TDs. Since USC beat Arkansas "70-17" and "50-14" it is not like he got shut down. I don't recall the exact play-by-play but hardly the type of games where a team is throwing the ball down the field the whole game to their #1. I would think how "DOMINATED" Arkansas was in those two games "120-31" would be a little embarrassing to the SEC and not an example of how tough the SEC is on opposing players.

Crowder52
02-05-2007, 12:11 PM
He also went up against Arkansas in his sophomore year and had 4 catches for 79 yards and 2 TDs. Since USC beat Arkansas "70-17" and "50-14" it is not like he got shut down. I don't recall the exact play-by-play but hardly the type of games where a team is throwing the ball down the field the whole game to their #1. I would think how "DOMINATED" Arkansas was in those two games "120-31" would be a little embarrassing to the SEC and not an example of how tough the SEC is on opposing players.

Ummm...Arkansas went 4-7 during Jarrett's sophomore year, with those wins coming over Mississippi, Mississippi State, LA-Monroe, and Missouri State. 4 catches certainly isn't much to brag about, and neither is that score against such a pathetic team. And last year, Arkansas was about the 5th best team in the SEC by the end of the season. So the #1 team in the Pac-10 beat the #5 team in the SEC without their Heisman finalist at full strength? You're right, that's so embarassing. :shakeno:

Anyways, my point was that his numbers were less than impressive against Arkansas. Playing in the Pac-10 inflates your offensive numbers, I'm sure even you will admit that. No one plays defense in that conference other than his own team. Though he did have a good game against Michigan, but how good was their D? It was highly touted, but got shown up in their only 2 big games.

Geforce
02-05-2007, 12:12 PM
The good news is the injury this year only effected him for 3 games so it wasn't one of those nagging injuries. Considering Jarrett played full-time and mostly as the teams #1 as an 18, 19, and 20 year old and that was the only time an injury affected his play bodes well for him. I definitely think "injury prone" would be an unfair label to place on the kid (not saying you did).

As far as the comments by his OC it is possible that was used for motivation purposes. Unfortunately, something like that can get generalized and used against him. My opinion is based on the "fact" that when he played in the big games and against secondaries considered to be fast, physical and elite (Texas, Michigan) is when he stepped his level of play up. Of course, there was also that catch from Lienhart pass in his Sophomore year against ND on a 4th and long (can't remember the exact distance) and he made the big catch that led to the winning TD in what some consider the be one of the best college games ever. Considering Chambers steps his play down in big moments I would love to get Dwayne "big time" Jarrett on this team...a definite upgrade.

Yes he played big in big games (Nebraska, Notre Dame & Michigan) when he was out to prove something. In other games that he thought wasn't as important he was just average at best.

PewterKrew
02-05-2007, 12:50 PM
Well, if the dolphins use their first round pick to shore up a shaky offensive line then may be wideout in round two then Rice, Meachem and may Bowe could be had

Motion
02-05-2007, 12:58 PM
Well, if the dolphins use their first round pick to shore up a shaky offensive line then may be wideout in round two then Rice, Meachem and may Bowe could be had

I'd take any 1 of those 3 over Ginn or Jarrett.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 01:54 PM
Ummm...Arkansas went 4-7 during Jarrett's sophomore year, with those wins coming over Mississippi, Mississippi State, LA-Monroe, and Missouri State. 4 catches certainly isn't much to brag about, and neither is that score against such a pathetic team. And last year, Arkansas was about the 5th best team in the SEC by the end of the season. So the #1 team in the Pac-10 beat the #5 team in the SEC without their Heisman finalist at full strength? You're right, that's so embarassing. :shakeno:

Anyways, my point was that his numbers were less than impressive against Arkansas. Playing in the Pac-10 inflates your offensive numbers, I'm sure even you will admit that. No one plays defense in that conference other than his own team. Though he did have a good game against Michigan, but how good was their D? It was highly touted, but got shown up in their only 2 big games.

4 catches 79 yards 2 TD over a full 16 game NFL schedule would equate to 64 catches 1264 yards 32 TD...keep in mind he probably didn't play the 4th quarter of that game and if he did I can assure you it wasn't much and they wouldn't have been calling his number. The point being from the games I have watched USC play the past couple of years when they are POUNDING a team they generally pull their starters in the 4th quarter. You are taking "ONE" game and magnifying it. The first game of the season when his team was "WAY AHEAD" and so his team wasn't throwing him the ball down the stretch to increase those numbers. If you think this is a true representation of a player then "OK."

If getting pounded 70-17 one year, followed by 50-14 at home is not embarrassing, exactly what score would be embarrassing? Is that what SEC football is all about? :shakeno:

As for his stats were accumulated against the weak PAC 10 (I am not a big conference fan to begin with, but sounds like you are), Jarrett's three biggest games this year were against Nebraska, Notre Dame and Michigan. My understanding is none of these teams play in the PAC 10 and all were in the TOP 25 when USC played them.

Against Nebraska...
11 catches 136 yards 2 TD

Against Notre Dame...
7 catches 132 yards 3 TD

Against Michigan...
11 catches 205 yards 2 TD

Of course, there was the Championship game against Oklahoma as a freshman...
5 catches 115 yards 1 TD

And the Championship game against Texas as a sophomore...
10 catches 121 yards 1 TD

You may want to do some research before making these types of claims bc it appears he "PADS" his stats against the great teams.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 02:08 PM
Yes he played big in big games (Nebraska, Notre Dame & Michigan) when he was out to prove something. In other games that he thought wasn't as important he was just average at best.
What are you talking about? I can only guess you haven't watched USC or Jarrett play very much. The main reason he didn't put up huge numbers during the 'not so important games" is mostly bc he didn't have to. USC was typically ahead by a large margin and wasn't calling his number in the second half. Not sure if you know this, but USC has had a pretty good running game as well.

Jarrett has been consistently good his entire college career as an 18, 19, and 20 year (he is still a kid!). Really his only poor stretch once he got worked into the offense as a freshman was this year when he was injured for three games (all against PAC 10 opponents) or his numbers would have been much better this year. Over his career Jarret has "41 TD catches" in only 38 games! Compare that with Ted Ginn who has 15 TD catches during his three year career.

Wow...Crowder52 is complaining that all of Jarrett's numbers were put up against the PAC 10 and you are complaining that all Jarrett's numbers weren't put up against the PAC 10, but against great teams...:lol:

Crowder52
02-05-2007, 02:18 PM
4 catches 79 yards 2 TD over a full 16 game NFL schedule would equate to 64 catches 1264 yards 32 TD...keep in mind he probably didn't play the 4th quarter of that game and if he did I can assure you it wasn't much and they wouldn't have been calling his number. The point being from the games I have watched USC play the past couple of years when they are POUNDING a team they generally pull their starters in the 4th quarter. You are taking "ONE" game and magnifying it. The first game of the season when his team was "WAY AHEAD" and so his team wasn't throwing him the ball down the stretch to increase those numbers. If you think this is a true representation of a player then "OK."

If getting pounded 70-17 one year, followed by 50-14 at home is not embarrassing, exactly what score would be embarrassing? Is that what SEC football is all about? :shakeno:

As for his stats were accumulated against the weak PAC 10 (I am not a big conference fan to begin with, but sounds like you are), Jarrett's three biggest games this year were against Nebraska, Notre Dame and Michigan. My understanding is none of these teams play in the PAC 10 and all were in the TOP 25 when they played them.

Against Nebraska...
11 catches 136 yards 2 TD

Against Notre Dame...
7 catches 132 yards 3 TD

Against Michigan...
11 catches 205 yards 2 TD

You may want to do some research before making these types of claims bc it appears he "PADS" his stats against the great teams.

You're still touting Jarrett's performance his sophomore year against Arkansas, a team in the lower quartile of the entire NCAA? And then your projecting those numbers over an NFL season? Nice, that makes a lot of sense.

I know nothing about Nebraska's defense so I can't comment, but I never really heard them talked about or touted. Notre Dame's was worthless and Michigan's was shown to be fradulent after the beating both Ohio State and USC gave them. My point is that his stats are inflated due to the pathetic defenses USC faces. No, Notre Dame doesn't count as a strong defense, I don't care what their ranking in the polls was at the time.

I haven't said anything negative about Jarrett and in fact I voted for him in this poll. But you just can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 02:38 PM
You're still touting Jarrett's performance his sophomore year against Arkansas, a team in the lower quartile of the entire NCAA? And then your projecting those numbers over an NFL season? Nice, that makes a lot of sense.

I know nothing about Nebraska's defense so I can't comment, but I never really heard them talked about or touted. Notre Dame's was worthless and Michigan's was shown to be fradulent after the beating both Ohio State and USC gave them. My point is that his stats are inflated due to the pathetic defenses USC faces. No, Notre Dame doesn't count as a strong defense, I don't care what their ranking in the polls was at the time.

I haven't said anything negative about Jarrett and in fact I voted for him in this poll. But you just can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from.
I referenced the Arkansas game bc you belittled his performance in that game. Would you prefer me to project the numbers over a full season based on the Michigan game...176 catches 3280 yards 32 TD.

I see...you make a claim that it was only bc he played against PAC 10 teams, but when it was pointed out he put up those numbers against other teams it is deny, deny, deny. Michigan did hold Vanderbilt to 7 points this year. Isn't Vanderbilt an SEC team? In fact, no SEC defense held Vanderbilt to that few of points the entire season. And I suppose you think Texas was soft in 2005 despite having a secondary that included Huff, Griffin(s), Ross.

Can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from? If what you say is true then we should see an incredible number of WRs from the PAC 10 being on top of the WR statistics. But, in fact, there are a lot more SEC receivers than PAC 10 receivers are up there. Just how good is the defense in the SEC?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=rec&sort=recyds&season=3&year=2006&group=80

Crowder52
02-05-2007, 02:47 PM
I referenced the Arkansas game bc you belittled his performance in that game. Would you prefer me to project the numbers over a full season based on the Michigan game...176 catches 3280 yards 32 TD.

I see...you make a claim that it was only bc he played against PAC 10 teams, but when it was pointed out he put up those numbers against other teams it is deny, deny, deny. Michigan did hold Vanderbilt to 7 points this year. Isn't Vanderbilt an SEC team? In fact, no SEC defense held Vanderbilt to that few of points the entire season. And I suppose you think Texas was soft in 2005 despite having a secondary that included Huff, Griffin(s), Ross.

Can not discount the inflation that his stats benefit from? If what you say is true then we should see an incredible number of WRs from the PAC 10 being on top of the WR statistics...hmmm....looks like a lot more SEC receivers than PAC 10 receivers are up there. Just how good is the defense in the SEC?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/sortables?stat=rec&sort=recyds&season=3&year=2006&group=80

*yawn
My point is that the combination of USC's prolific offense and the weak defenses they play leads to Jarrett's numbers being inflated. After watching Tennessee play Cal this year, I think Meachem could have had 2000 yards receiving if he played USC's schedule. If you disagree, that's fine, but when we are talking about the Vanderbilts and the Arkansas of the world and making it sound like that is the class of the SEC, the discussion has really deteriorated. We obviously don't see eye-to-eye on this.

Currently, USC receivers seem to me like they could turn out to be like Gators receivers in the late 90's and early 2000's. Great college success because their opponents were overmatched, but it doesn't transition to the NFL. The trend has already begun in my opinion, with Mike Williams and Keary Colbert.

IluvJuMiami
02-05-2007, 03:01 PM
Here are two videos. Watch them and then vote who you'd rather have at #9.



Thanks for the great poll Lab with the google video's and all. That was awesome.

It's a tough choice to make because Ginn is a game-changer. He's one of those Reggie Bush/Devin Hester types and passing on Ginn may be the biggest blunder we've made in the draft since trading down for John Avery instead of taking Randy Moss.

Jarrett is such a physical freak though. He looked like a giant out there amidst those tiny DB's. Ofcourse, it is college and the DB's in the pro's won't be quite as helpless as those in the highlight reel. Still, I've been rooting for Ginn for weeks now and these reels made it a much closer race.

I still think the move for Miami is to trade out of 9, either up for Brady Quinn, or down for Levi Brown. Even though I voted for Ginn, if we were to select Jarrett, I wouldn't be mad at all.

Jaj
02-05-2007, 03:44 PM
Wow...you don't think Jarrett is a polished route runner, but think Lelie is? During his career QBs have completed 48.8% of the passes they have thrown to Lelie. Hardly the numbers of a polished route runner. Especially considering he never has been a #1...very poor indeed. We already have a WR that puts up those exact numbers in completion percentage in Chambers at 49% for his career. I can't think of a worse WR to add to this team. An even bigger problem with Lelie is he is allergic to the end zone.

I've watched Jarrett plenty of times and Lelie plenty of times as well. I mean look at their QBs for a second there. Matt Leinart and Josh Booty's passes against weak Pac-10 defenses vs. Jake Plummer's incompetence and Micheal Vick???

Yes I think Lelie is a better WR. I never said Lelie was a #1. You don't get #1s in free agency because they're franchised.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 07:23 PM
*yawn
My point is that the combination of USC's prolific offense and the weak defenses they play leads to Jarrett's numbers being inflated. After watching Tennessee play Cal this year, I think Meachem could have had 2000 yards receiving if he played USC's schedule. If you disagree, that's fine, but when we are talking about the Vanderbilts and the Arkansas of the world and making it sound like that is the class of the SEC, the discussion has really deteriorated. We obviously don't see eye-to-eye on this.

Currently, USC receivers seem to me like they could turn out to be like Gators receivers in the late 90's and early 2000's. Great college success because their opponents were overmatched, but it doesn't transition to the NFL. The trend has already begun in my opinion, with Mike Williams and Keary Colbert.
* snore
The same Meachem that had 4 catches for 33 yards in the Outback Bowl against Penn State as his team lost 20-10...the Penn State team that finished 2 games behind Michigan in the conference...2000 yards :lol: keep dreaming.

Sounds like you are not aware that Arkansas won the SEC West this year with a 7-1 conference record.

Vertical Limit
02-05-2007, 08:09 PM
Here are two videos. Watch them and then vote who you'd rather have at #9.

WGyrgqOKZLg

R_aByLgotfY
I just watched the Dwayne Jarrett video and I'm Wow'd. I always thought he was the 2nd best receiver in this draft, and earlier in the season, I said we need either Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett. Dwayne Jarrett got better hands than any wide receiver in our current roster. He would definitely be a huge upgrade, and he has the ability to be a #1 receiver in his 2nd or 3rd year.

A Pac-10 WR core of #1 Dwayne Jarrett and #2 Derek Hagan sounds good to me.

Jaj
02-05-2007, 08:40 PM
I just watched the Dwayne Jarrett video and I'm Wow'd. I always thought he was the 2nd best receiver in this draft, and earlier in the season, I said we need either Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett. Dwayne Jarrett got better hands than any wide receiver in our current roster. He would definitely be a huge upgrade, and he has the ability to be a #1 receiver in his 2nd or 3rd year.

A Pac-10 WR core of #1 Dwayne Jarrett and #2 Derek Hagan sounds good to me.

He barely gets seperation in college in the NFL CBs will be bigger and he won't produce the same way. Ginn Jr. I don't agree with either.

RenoFinFan
02-05-2007, 08:56 PM
He barely gets seperation in college in the NFL CBs will be bigger and he won't produce the same way. Ginn Jr. I don't agree with either.
Exactly the same thing said about Fitzgerald when he came into the league. How does a WR score 41 TDs in 38 games and not be able to get separation? Although he doesn't have a great time in the 40 he is quick out of his cuts. The other things to take note of when watching the highlight film is the way Jarrett uses his body to shield the defender from the ball (someone should send this to Chambers) and his hands (some of the best to ever come out of college). At 6'5" and 215 it is the CBs that are going to have a tough time matching up physically...keep in mind he will only be 21 years old when the season starts so he will continue to get stronger and better.

Vegas dolfan
02-05-2007, 09:47 PM
I am surprised more Florida fans dont want Ted Ginn Jr. They saw first hand how fast he is. Too bad he got hurt and they only saw him healthy one play. And that one play was for a TD. Jarrett is a good reciver and will do well in the nfl but we need some speed to offset Chambers and Booker.

Stitches
02-05-2007, 09:52 PM
Exactly the same thing said about Fitzgerald when he came into the league. How does a WR score 41 TDs in 38 games and not be able to get separation? Although he doesn't have a great time in the 40 he is quick out of his cuts. The other things to take note of when watching the highlight film is the way Jarrett uses his body to shield the defender from the ball (someone should send this to Chambers) and his hands (some of the best to ever come out of college). At 6'5" and 215 it is the CBs that are going to have a tough time matching up physically...keep in mind he will only be 21 years old when the season starts so he will continue to get stronger and better.

I never heard that knock on Fitzgerald when he came out. I heard how is was one of the most polished recievers ever to come out of the draft, much like how Calvin Johnson is this season. And how do you score 41 TDs in 38 games without getting seperation? By having the DBs give you an 8 yard cushion, or by running fades in the endzone, since you have more than a 6 inch advantage over DBs before jumping.

Jaj
02-05-2007, 10:06 PM
Exactly the same thing said about Fitzgerald when he came into the league. How does a WR score 41 TDs in 38 games and not be able to get separation? Although he doesn't have a great time in the 40 he is quick out of his cuts. The other things to take note of when watching the highlight film is the way Jarrett uses his body to shield the defender from the ball (someone should send this to Chambers) and his hands (some of the best to ever come out of college). At 6'5" and 215 it is the CBs that are going to have a tough time matching up physically...keep in mind he will only be 21 years old when the season starts so he will continue to get stronger and better.

Fitzgerald has even better ball skills and is a freak of nature. Also he runs better routes. Jarrett doesn't run very good routes at all. Keep in mind that a number of players will also get stronger and better including his own draftmates on defense. He also isn't that quick out of his cuts. In that video for example all you see is him get pummeled after catching the ball. Well guess what in the NFL a CB is going to come in and go for the ball not him and jar it loose.

RenoFinFan
02-06-2007, 01:05 AM
I never heard that knock on Fitzgerald when he came out. I heard how is was one of the most polished recievers ever to come out of the draft, much like how Calvin Johnson is this season. And how do you score 41 TDs in 38 games without getting seperation? By having the DBs give you an 8 yard cushion, or by running fades in the endzone, since you have more than a 6 inch advantage over DBs before jumping.
The one negative draft gurus questioned about Fitzgerald when he came out was his speed and questioned whether he would get separation. That DBs would give Jarrett an 8 yard cushion is an indication they respect Jarrett's speed and route running. I can't tell whether the fact that Jarrett is able to score consistently on fades and has a 6 inch advantage in height (greater when you add in arm length) is a positive or negative in your book. In mine it is a positive...those are "great" qualities to have in WR if you are a QB.

Vertical Limit
02-06-2007, 01:09 AM
He barely gets seperation in college in the NFL CBs will be bigger and he won't produce the same way. Ginn Jr. I don't agree with either.
His size, hands and strength makes up for the "lack of" speed, though Jarrett is still pretty fast. He is very physical and makes explosive plays all the time.

Jarrett is a baller.

CANDolphan
02-06-2007, 01:10 AM
I am surprised more Florida fans dont want Ted Ginn Jr. They saw first hand how fast he is. Too bad he got hurt and they only saw him healthy one play. And that one play was for a TD. Jarrett is a good reciver and will do well in the nfl but we need some speed to offset Chambers and Booker.

However, it was a blown kick ( they had coverage set up on the right side, the kicker screwed up and kicked it to the other side ) and Reggie Nelson was pretty clearly held. Not saying he would have for sure made the tackle, but he was in great position to make it.

Honestly, Ginn doesn't impress me as a returner nearly as much as I was impressed with Hester or Jones-Drew

CANDolphan
02-06-2007, 01:13 AM
Fitzgerald has even better ball skills and is a freak of nature. Also he runs better routes. Jarrett doesn't run very good routes at all. Keep in mind that a number of players will also get stronger and better including his own draftmates on defense. He also isn't that quick out of his cuts. In that video for example all you see is him get pummeled after catching the ball. Well guess what in the NFL a CB is going to come in and go for the ball not him and jar it loose.

Actually, Jarret runs fantastic routes for a kid his age. Where did you see/read that he doesn't? He makes great catches in traffic ( that seems to be overlooked, sadly.. )

Its much like CC Davis vs Dallas Baker. As a seminole, I want CC Davis, because hes actually bigger and a bit faster than Baker, but Baker makes much better catches in traffic and has great movement to get a couple extra yards after the catch.. so Id take Dallas Baker even though if you cant see the difference between the two in a practice/combine situation.

Dwayne Jarret is going to be a tremendous player in the NFL. I dont think he'll be a show stopping all star, but he only has a small amount of things to improve upon ( strength ) before he could be a solid starter in the league. He reminds me A LOT of KeyShawn Johnson..

Tureo
02-06-2007, 01:16 AM
If we're looking for a #1 WR who can be a go-to guy for a QB, Jarrett's the prototypical one. Not super fast but who is fast enough, runs great routes, and has sure hands.

If we're looking for a #2 WR who will just spread the field, Ginn's the speed demon. Better return guy also. But he does fumble a bit and tends to disappear sometimes in games.
I agree, if I had to pick one of the two I would choose Jarrett but I don't think we pick a WR with our first pick or even on the first day. I guess it depends on what we do in free agency and what we do with Booker and Welker.

RenoFinFan
02-06-2007, 01:28 AM
Fitzgerald has even better ball skills and is a freak of nature. Also he runs better routes. Jarrett doesn't run very good routes at all. Keep in mind that a number of players will also get stronger and better including his own draftmates on defense. He also isn't that quick out of his cuts. In that video for example all you see is him get pummeled after catching the ball. Well guess what in the NFL a CB is going to come in and go for the ball not him and jar it loose.
I won't bash Fitzgerald bc he has some of the greatest hands I have ever seen. However, Jarrett is right up there with him. Hard for me to believe the compilation of criticism against Jarrett in this thread. Jarrett is not fast enough, physical enough, can't get separation, runs terrible routes, only puts up big numbers against PAC 10 teams, only puts up big numbers in big games against non PAC 10 teams, doesn't have that great of hands, not strong enough...yet in his college career Jarrett has put up the following numbers in 38 games.

25 games with a TD reception, 12 games with more than one TD reception, 2 games 200 or more yards, 13 total games over 100 yards, 26 total games 60 or more yards, 26 games in which he has 5 or more catches, and 33 games 4 or more receptions. The other games he didn't add to the above numbers mostly occurred when he was a freshman (he did have 100+ yards in 3 of final 4 games that year) while getting acquainted with the offense and the two games this year playing injured.

Furthermore, Jarrett has had at least 4 receptions in 28 of the past 29 games (the one he didn't was one of the games he played injured this year) and has at least 60 yards in 23 of the last 28 games (two of which is when he played injured this year).

He also put up the following numbers in "Two" Championship games and this years Rose Bowl...26 catches 441 yards 4 TD.

Not bad for a player that has so many limitations. In fact, there is not a WR in this draft, including the great Calvin Johnson (and I truly think he is) that comes close to having the career Jarrett has had. In fact, there are not too many WR in the history of college football that have had as good of a career as he has.

RenoFinFan
02-06-2007, 01:30 AM
His size, hands and strength makes up for the "lack of" speed, though Jarrett is still pretty fast. He is very physical and makes explosive plays all the time.

Jarrett is a baller.

:yeahthat:

Tureo
02-06-2007, 01:34 AM
Jarrett has better hands and is a more polished route runner and will be able to take the pounding going over the middle. Ginn has the speed and upside but his frame may not hold up in the NFL. Ginn seems to drop easy catches and has been nicked up a bit in his career. Will Ginn be able to add bilk with out lossing any of his speed is the question? and will Jarrett be able to gain sepration vs. press coverage in the NFL?
I agree that these are the questions that remain about these 2 WR's entering the draft.

Tureo
02-06-2007, 01:49 AM
Well, if the dolphins use their first round pick to shore up a shaky offensive line then may be wideout in round two then Rice, Meachem and may Bowe could be had
I don't think that Bowe will be there but I would like Meacham. He has the size and speed to make an impact on our team next year, especially if we don't resign Welker. I hope we resign him though.