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View Full Version : I dont understand reaching when you have a top 10 pick...



Dmarino110
02-08-2007, 12:49 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?

Motion
02-08-2007, 01:03 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?


Oh really?

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/top64.php?draftyear=2007

PHINishinStrong
02-08-2007, 01:21 PM
If Joe Thomas was there at 9 its a no brainer to take him... If Brady Quinn fell there it would be a tough pick because of the fact we have Cpep. Even though im not sold on PEPs condition i think hes still an asset to this team on the field... Levi Brown would be a safe pick considering the need we have Left Tackle. He is a reach at 9 but still is pretty solid... I think our needs are as follows from greatest to least: LT, DB, LB, WR, QB(we have too much money tied up here), DE, DT (Manny & Rod Wright, Fred Evans are still developing and have major potential)
By the way Dwayne Jarret isnt known for being fast... He has to prove his 40 time in the combine. I read somewhere they clocked him at 4.6 in College...

RonnFin46
02-08-2007, 01:21 PM
mel kiper has us takin quinn at #9 anyway.....and im a big kiper fan when it comes to the draft, so i gotta go with wat he says

FINdestructible
02-08-2007, 01:25 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?



I'd love him here also, but wasn't the knock on him his lack of speed? Maybe i'm wrong, but i could have sworn i heard that.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 01:26 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?


If both Joe Thomas(no chance IMO) and Brady Quinn(better odds)) fall to us, I don't think it's even close. The Miami Dolphins with the 9th pick in the draft HAVE to select Joe Thomas.

As much as I advocate making a move and staking a claim in the future franchise QB of our team, we cannot pass on the best OT in the draft falling 8 spots and right in to one of the most mediocre OLines in the NFL.

As far as reaching on Brown, if Miami is thinking of bringing in a DE in Adams or Anderson it will be a direct waste of a 2nd round pick IMO. Matt Roth has shown significant improvement and star potential with every opportunity he has been given on the field. He should be awarded the starting job if the Dolphins decide to cut/trade Kevin Carter or even if they don't. If Carter stays and Holliday goes, I'd move Carter to the inside and make Roth the starter.

Some people get excited about Leon Hall and I just don't understand how a Dolfan could possibly get all tingly over another 5'll CB. The Jaguars made our dwarf CB's this year look like they belonged playing pee wee football. Sure, Asante Samuel is about the same height, but Samuels has already proven he can play at over 6 feet.

And Reggie Nelson or Laron Landry, I think they are both solid players but I have a big problem going saftey two years in a row. Not only is it unfair to the franchise because maybe Jason Allen get's caught behind the rookie or frustrated with the thought of Miami not believing in him and lapses never getting the proper time to flourish, but safety is not a major need postion for us. We have youth and talent with Allen, Bell and Hill. IMO all three guys are more than serviceable.

Dwayne Jarrett, Ted Ginn Jr- I like them both. But you guys will agree with me that the draft is a gamble right? I think we can all agree on that. So which gamble, assuming they both pay off, would pay the larger dividends? By far, by a landslide, it's Ted Ginn Jr. If this guy pays off, he's going to be the next Steve Smith of the NFL only he'll be taking putns and kick offs to the house.

In conclusion, and obviously this is all opinion, if no Quinn or Branch fall to us and it's between a Adams, Anderson, Landry, or Nelson, I'd rather reach for Levi Brown. And if we are gambling on recievers, I'd take my chances with Ted Ginn Jr.

Motion
02-08-2007, 01:34 PM
I'd love him here also, but wasn't the knock on him his lack of speed? Maybe i'm wrong, but i could have sworn i heard that.

No, your right.

PerfectFinz72
02-08-2007, 01:47 PM
Dwayne Jarrett, Ted Ginn Jr- I like them both. But you guys will agree with me that the draft is a gamble right? I think we can all agree on that. So which gamble, assuming they both pay off, would pay the larger dividends? By far, by a landslide, it's Ted Ginn Jr. If this guy pays off, he's going to be the next Steve Smith of the NFL only he'll be taking putns and kick offs to the house.

In conclusion, and obviously this is all opinion, if no Quinn or Branch fall to us and it's between a Adams, Anderson, Landry, or Nelson, I'd rather reach for Levi Brown. And if we are gambling on recievers, I'd take my chances with Ted Ginn Jr.

I'm curious to know why Ginn Jr by a landslide over Jarrett? Theres really no telling which will be better until you see what team drafts them and what type of situation they are put in. Personally, I thought Jarrett would be a better pick because Ginn is small. I dont know...thats just the way I look at it.

nick1
02-08-2007, 01:49 PM
we can't go wrong with the #9 pick, somebody will fall. whether it be Adams, Jarrett, Quinn, Brown or Nelson who knows but we will get a good player at high value

nick1
02-08-2007, 01:51 PM
I'm curious to know why Ginn Jr by a landslide over Jarrett? Theres really no telling which will be better until you see what team drafts them and what type of situation they are put in. Personally, I thought Jarrett would be a better pick because Ginn is small. I dont know...thats just the way I look at it.

your absolutely correct, Jarret is way better than Ginn. he has better hands, size, is a better route runner and can win jump balls in the end zone. some people are just in love with Ginn but the truth is he is horrible value at #9

Motion
02-08-2007, 01:51 PM
I'm curious to know why Ginn Jr by a landslide over Jarrett? Theres really no telling which will be better until you see what team drafts them and what type of situation they are put in. Personally, I thought Jarrett would be a better pick because Ginn is small. I dont know...thats just the way I look at it.

I disagree, Jarrett lacks the speed to stretch the field, which is exactly what the Fins need. We already have 2 solid possession type WRs. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not advocating Ginn by any means. I don't want either one of them.

SMadison29
02-08-2007, 01:52 PM
right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

While I'm not comparing players or talent, the last time a team reached in the top 10 for an OT that was supposedly going to be around at pick 20 was Cincinnati's Levi Jones, & he's turned into a franchise LT protecting Carson Palmer's blind side.

WelcomeBack
02-08-2007, 01:53 PM
I love Jarrett's hands. Only problem is, he's a possession receiver, which is what most of our current WR's are.

IF we go WR in round 1, I'd rather Ted Ginn just because of his speed.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 01:53 PM
I'm curious to know why Ginn Jr by a landslide over Jarrett? Theres really no telling which will be better until you see what team drafts them and what type of situation they are put in. Personally, I thought Jarrett would be a better pick because Ginn is small. I dont know...thats just the way I look at it.

I completely understand where you are coming from. But Ginn's explosiveness is by far a landslide if it translates to the NFL. You don't agree?

Finole
02-08-2007, 01:53 PM
Levi Brown is NOT a reach.

Some might call Paul Posluszny, Patrick Willis, or Leon Hall a reach. But my definition of a reach is selecting a player you could have gotten in the next round. So none of those guys qualify. Especially if any of them go on to become Pro Bowl players.

If the Fins traded down three spots, we probably wouldn't have a shot a Levi Brown. Don't know how you can call that a reach by anybody's definition.

Motion
02-08-2007, 01:53 PM
I love Jarrett's hands. Only problem is, he's a possession receiver, which is what most of our current WR's are.

IF we go WR in round 1, I'd rather Ted Ginn just because of his speed.

:yes: On the same page here.

nick1
02-08-2007, 01:54 PM
I disagree, Jarrett lacks the speed to stretch the field, which is exactly what the Fins need. We already have 2 solid possession type WRs. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not advocating Ginn by any means. I don't want either one of them.

Jarret is a true WR, Ginn isn't. he's a Devin Hester with better hands, simply put he needs work to play WR in this league.

Motion
02-08-2007, 01:55 PM
Levi Brown is NOT a reach.

Some might call Paul Posluszny, Patrick Willis, or Leon Hall a reach. But my definition of a reach is selecting a player you could have gotten in the next round. So none of those guys qualify. Especially if any of them go on to become Pro Bowl players.

If the Fins traded down three spots, we probably wouldn't have a shot a Levi Brown. Don't know how you can call that a reach by anybody's definition.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Too early to tell at this point but I'd bet money at least one of those guys will slip to round 2.

Motion
02-08-2007, 01:55 PM
Jarret is a true WR, Ginn isn't. he's a Devin Hester with better hands, simply put he needs work to play WR in this league.

Whats that have to do with what I said?

Disgustipate
02-08-2007, 01:55 PM
I dont understand how you can pretend to have any idea who is and is not a reach at this point.

WelcomeBack
02-08-2007, 01:56 PM
Jarret is a true WR, Ginn isn't. he's a Devin Hester with better hands, simply put he needs work to play WR in this league.

I'd be willing to wait for him to put in that work. His speed is undeniable and could be the threat we need in order to get our other WR's wide open as well.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 01:56 PM
your absolutely correct, Jarret is way better than Ginn. he has better hands, size, is a better route runner and can win jump balls in the end zone. some people are just in love with Ginn but the truth is he is horrible value at #9

That's the truth huh? Man, where have you been all my life? Nick1, why are we here, on this planet? What is this life for? The truth, please.

Motion
02-08-2007, 01:56 PM
I dont understand how you can pretend to have any idea who is and is not a reach at this point.

Good point

nick1
02-08-2007, 01:56 PM
Whats that have to do with what I said?

I was responding to the thread in general didn't mean to quote you

SMadison29
02-08-2007, 01:56 PM
I completely understand where you are coming from. But Ginn's explosiveness is by far a landslide if it translates to the NFL. You don't agree?

Yes, it'll be so hard not to take the sexy pick in Ginn instead of Branch, Okoye, or Brown. We don't have that big explosive player on either side of the ball. Look how well it turned out for New Orleans with Bush & Chicago with Hester.

nick1
02-08-2007, 01:59 PM
That's the truth huh? Man, where have you been all my life? Nick1, why are we here, on this planet? What is this life for? The truth, please.

I'm going off of my opinion, he is graded around the 15th spot with makes him at #9 a reach, a big one at that because in the first round the value is alot higher at #9 vs. #15

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 02:00 PM
Levi Brown is NOT a reach.

Some might call Paul Posluszny, Patrick Willis, or Leon Hall a reach. But my definition of a reach is selecting a player you could have gotten in the next round. So none of those guys qualify. Especially if any of them go on to become Pro Bowl players.

If the Fins traded down three spots, we probably wouldn't have a shot a Levi Brown. Don't know how you can call that a reach by anybody's definition.

IMO, reaching is taking one player over another because that player fills a need.

As much as I do not want to take Adams, Anderson, Landry, or Hall, if they are better prospects than Brown, with more upside, better profile, etc, don't reach for Brown. Take the BPA.

PewterKrew
02-08-2007, 02:01 PM
At this point no matter where a team is pick it is a reach there is no sure fire guy coming out of college that will be a hall of famer cant miss prospect. now there are some guys that have talent but it all has to translate to the NFL. so if a team thinks that player has the best character and fits there scheme then that will be the player choosen player. just cause some draft site rates a player lower then the next site does not mean much to me. most of those sites are run by guys like you and me. so why put some much stock into what they say. I am sure you have watched enough pro and college games to know that aplayer is good.

nick1
02-08-2007, 02:03 PM
At this point no matter where a team is pick it is a reach there is no sure fire guy coming out of college that will be a hall of famer cant miss prospect. now there are some guys that have talent but it all has to translate to the NFL. so if a team thinks that player has the best character and fits there scheme then that will be the player choosen player. just cause some draft site rates a player lower then the next site does not mean much to me. most of those sites are run by guys like you and me. so why put some much stock into what they say. I am sure you have watched enough pro and college games to know that aplayer is good.

I think Calvin Johnson is a sure fire player, comparible to Marvin Harrison only Calvin is bigger in size. Scouts are very excited over him

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 02:03 PM
I dont understand how you can pretend to have any idea who is and is not a reach at this point.

We are simple laymen, Dis. Atleast speaking for myself, the only knowledge I have of these guys come from the internet, limited games, etc. From the internet rankings, Levi Brown averages out of the top 10.

That's all I have to go on, but by your point, no one can be called a reach and I think that's taking it a bit far.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 02:10 PM
Yes, it'll be so hard not to take the sexy pick in Ginn instead of Branch, Okoye, or Brown. We don't have that big explosive player on either side of the ball. Look how well it turned out for New Orleans with Bush & Chicago with Hester.

I have to disagree with you here because I think it doesn't get more explosive than Jason Taylor and Zach Thomas, JT in particular. The guy scores TDs as a DE. It doesn't get more explosive than that.

I do agree with the rest of your post. Hester and Bush made a world of difference for both teams.

Bush won 2 games single-handedly for the Saints. The punt or kick return(I forget now) he returned in the last minutes of a 4th quarter game to win and the 3 TD game he had each from 20 yards out(2 screens).

What was New Orlean's record? Subtract 2 victories.

Edit: They go 8-8 and miss the playoffs because Carolina was 5-1 in the division, N.O. was 4-2. A world of difference. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/standings

Dmarino110
02-08-2007, 02:19 PM
your absolutely correct, Jarret is way better than Ginn. he has better hands, size, is a better route runner and can win jump balls in the end zone. some people are just in love with Ginn but the truth is he is horrible value at #9

Okay i looked it up and Jarret doesnt have the speed i thought he had. I was thinking 4.4 speed, but 4.5 or 4.6 is passable. The reason i mentioned him over Ginn is that he is 6'4 or 6'5 if you use a special VT Measuring tape. He also caught 41 TDs for his 3 year carrer, even if it was just because he was the #1 reciever, it means that he can catch the ball in the endzone. at 6'5 he will have an eaier time catching things in coverage then Ginn will, and he weill be an easier target for who ever our QB is.

Overrated
2. Levi Brown (Penn St.) 6'5" 324- OT: At the beginning of the season I would have never even thought about putting Brown on a list like this coming off of a strong junior season. Contrary to some reports I've seen, he had a down senior season and did not even seem to be very motivated, even with a possible first round draft spot on tap. Some of his struggles did come from the maturation process of Penn St. quarterback Anthony Morrelli, but that only goes so far. Has great size and quick feet that does make him very tantalizing as a prospect. The one factor I would want to test before I drafted him is his fire. He didn't seem to be too interested most of his senior season, how will he act when he gets his first big payday? Seemed that Tony Hunt made him look better than he did this season. Did struggle against a couple premier pass rushers in Michigan's LaMarr Woodley and Notre Dame's Victor Abiamiri. Has a lot of potential but the one factor that can't worked out at the combine, passion, is my biggest question mark with Brown.
PREDICTION: Will be a first round pick, either mid to late, and I believe by the end of his first camp we'll know if he's a boom or bust.

PLus hes had knee problems...We dont need anyone else on this team with knee problems

Pocoloco
02-08-2007, 02:22 PM
this is sort of the issue the Bills had last year. Everyone teased them for reaching in the first round, but if you pick a guy that is good, no one will remember that you didn't get 'value' or whatever.

If you ask me, there are only a few guys that I think will turn into something special in the whole draft; Calvin Johnson, Brady Quinn, Patrick Willis, Brian Leonard and Paul Pozlusky (as an OLB). If we can get Quinn and one of the linebackers in the second, this draft will be pure gold.

Motion
02-08-2007, 02:24 PM
Okay i looked it up and Jarret doesnt have the speed i thought he had. I was thinking 4.4 speed, but 4.5 or 4.6 is passable. The reason i mentioned him over Ginn is that he is 6'4 or 6'5 if you use a special VT Measuring tape. He also caught 29 TDs this year, even if it was just because he was the #1 reciever, it means that he can catch the ball in the endzone. at 6'5 he will have an eaier time catching things in coverage then Ginn will, and he weill be an easier target for who ever our QB is.



Not sure where your getting those numbers. He had 12 including the Rose Bowl.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161084

WelcomeBack
02-08-2007, 02:26 PM
Not sure where your getting those numbers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161084

To make that statement more interesting, that means that John David Booty would've had to throw ALL of his TD passes to Jarrett.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=145168

Finole
02-08-2007, 02:28 PM
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Too early to tell at this point but I'd bet money at least one of those guys will slip to round 2.

Puz might slip to the 2nd. If he does, the Fins should draft him. Do you agree?

Stitches
02-08-2007, 02:34 PM
Okay i looked it up and Jarret doesnt have the speed i thought he had. I was thinking 4.4 speed, but 4.5 or 4.6 is passable. The reason i mentioned him over Ginn is that he is 6'4 or 6'5 if you use a special VT Measuring tape. He also caught 29 TDs this year, even if it was just because he was the #1 reciever, it means that he can catch the ball in the endzone. at 6'5 he will have an eaier time catching things in coverage then Ginn will, and he weill be an easier target for who ever our QB is.

Overrated
2. Levi Brown (Penn St.) 6'5" 324- OT: At the beginning of the season I would have never even thought about putting Brown on a list like this coming off of a strong junior season. Contrary to some reports I've seen, he had a down senior season and did not even seem to be very motivated, even with a possible first round draft spot on tap. Some of his struggles did come from the maturation process of Penn St. quarterback Anthony Morrelli, but that only goes so far. Has great size and quick feet that does make him very tantalizing as a prospect. The one factor I would want to test before I drafted him is his fire. He didn't seem to be too interested most of his senior season, how will he act when he gets his first big payday? Seemed that Tony Hunt made him look better than he did this season. Did struggle against a couple premier pass rushers in Michigan's LaMarr Woodley and Notre Dame's Victor Abiamiri. Has a lot of potential but the one factor that can't worked out at the combine, passion, is my biggest question mark with Brown.
PREDICTION: Will be a first round pick, either mid to late, and I believe by the end of his first camp we'll know if he's a boom or bust.

PLus hes had knee problems...We dont need anyone else on this team with knee problems

Knee problems? He's missed only a handful of games, otherwise he started every one. It's not like it was a chronic issue. There isn't even supposed to be any lasting effects. And I don't know how you can think Tony Hunt made Levi Brown look any better. Brown was the easily the strongest point of that line, and probably accounted for at least 200 yards that Hunt wouldn't have gotten had he not been there. And I really don't know how you question the passion of someone who is a four year starter, and did everything the coaches asked of him. What do you expect him to do to show passion? Commit roughness penalties after the play? Go around with war paint on like John Randle? He went out there and did his job, and did it better than almost any other tackle in the country. How can you question that passion? And he will be picked by the mid first, not late.

Motion
02-08-2007, 02:34 PM
Puz might slip to the 2nd. If he does, the Fins should draft him. Do you agree?

All depends who we got in the 1st and who else is available but I wouldn't be opposed to it.

Stitches
02-08-2007, 02:35 PM
Puz might slip to the 2nd. If he does, the Fins should draft him. Do you agree?

I couldn't think of a more influential player being available than Puz if he did slip to our pick in the 2nd. However, if we drafted Gaines Adams with the intention of playing him at OLB, would you still draft Puz? I think you do.

Dmarino110
02-08-2007, 02:36 PM
Not sure where your getting those numbers. He had 12 including the Rose Bowl.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=161084

jeeze im getting bad info today...I was looking at http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jarrett_dwayne00.html which when i actually read didnt even have this years numbers on it. It was just pointing out that in his first 2 years he was #5 in TD for the pac10 all time TD receptions. This is me sucking at posts for a guy id like to draft :(

my bad

changed original to make me look like less of an idiot

Motion
02-08-2007, 02:37 PM
jeeze im getting bad info today...I was looking at http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jarrett_dwayne00.html which when i actually read didnt even have this years numbers on it. It was just pointing out that in his first 2 years he was #5 in TD for the pac10 all time TD receptions. This is me sucking at posts for a guy id like to draft :(

my bad

Its all good. That 29 TDs jumped right off the screen when I read it, I was thinking no way. :D

LeftCoastFinFan
02-08-2007, 02:42 PM
I'm curious to know why Ginn Jr by a landslide over Jarrett? Theres really no telling which will be better until you see what team drafts them and what type of situation they are put in. Personally, I thought Jarrett would be a better pick because Ginn is small. I dont know...thats just the way I look at it.

Three words... speed, speed, speed.
I would happily take either as a potential upgrade to our receiving corps, but Jarrett reminds me a bit of Gadsden... good on short routes, red zone, etc... not a deep threat. Ginn has speed, and to all of you CC groupies, if he is to ever break out, having a true deep receiving threat on the other side of the field would certainly help. If you can beat the coverage deep, it doesn't matter so much how big you are.
IMO
:dolphins:

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 02:43 PM
jeeze im getting bad info today...I was looking at http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jarrett_dwayne00.html which when i actually read didnt even have this years numbers on it. It was just pointing out that in his first 2 years he was #5 in TD for the pac10 all time TD receptions. This is me sucking at posts for a guy id like to draft :(

my bad

changed original to make me look like less of an idiot

You don't look like an idiot at all especially since you're able to own up.

I like Jarrett's size but I loooove Ginn's speed. I think Cameron could really find a way to utilize this guy and even Mularkey could be a help(I'm reaching now) with his reverses and such.

The Confessor
02-08-2007, 02:43 PM
Man, the entire premise of this thread is not reaching for a guy at 9, then putting Jarrett in that "Not a reach spot":shakeno:

We better address OLine or OLB in first round if Quinn isnt there. Otherwise we blow a pick. Of course if somebody really good is still there like Quinn, Russell, Anderson Peterson ......(Not Jarrett or Ginn), then we address Oline in the second:wink:

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 02:46 PM
Three words... speed, speed, speed.
I would happily take either as a potential upgrade to our receiving corps, but Jarrett reminds me a bit of Gadsden... good on short routes, red zone, etc... not a deep threat. Ginn has speed, and to all of you CC groupies, if he is to ever break out, having a true deep receiving threat on the other side of the field would certainly help. If you can beat the coverage deep, it doesn't matter so much how big you are.
IMO
:dolphins:

I agree. if we are going to stick with Daunte Culepepper, and for now, signs point to "We have no choice", why not get him a guy who you could always send on a go route? Tell Daunte to drop back and if there's nothing else, do what you do best, launch the ball down field, to Ginn running like the wind. It worked with Moss.

If nothing at all, it will make defenses have to respect the long ball. How good of a route runner do you have to be to take off straight down field?

I'd rather have Quinn if he falls, Branch if he's there, Brown in a trade down, but if we have to stay at 9 with Brown being as big as a reach as Ginn, I'd like to have Ginn. I'd like to have a possible superstar and possible bust over a probable solid player.

A solid LT would be nice, yes, but it's not enough to take us to the next level.

LeftCoastFinFan
02-08-2007, 02:54 PM
I love Jarrett's hands. Only problem is, he's a possession receiver, which is what most of our current WR's are.

IF we go WR in round 1, I'd rather Ted Ginn just because of his speed.

:yeahthat:

We need speed.

Dmarino110
02-08-2007, 02:54 PM
Man, the entire premise of this thread is not reaching for a guy at 9, then putting Jarrett in that "Not a reach spot":shakeno:

We better address OLine or OLB in first round if Quinn isnt there. Otherwise we blow a pick. Of course if somebody really good is still there like Quinn, Russell, Anderson Peterson ......(Not Jarrett or Ginn), then we address Oline in the second:wink:

While I think Ginn and Brown are reaching I belive Jerrett is top 10 in most polls. My question, now that ive thought about it better is this, "if we dont trade up or down, and lets just say every other team was smoking crack and picked horribly, who would have the most value (ill go ahead and say Thomas, C Johnson, and J Russell are gone but everyone else is fair game).

Do you still reach for a need position rather then the OMFG how is he still on the board pick?

Finole
02-08-2007, 02:55 PM
IMO, reaching is taking one player over another because that player fills a need.

As much as I do not want to take Adams, Anderson, Landry, or Hall, if they are better prospects than Brown, with more upside, better profile, etc, don't reach for Brown. Take the BPA.

I hear what you're saying. But how do you place that BPA value on players in different positions?

If you have shot at the #1 WR, the #1 LT, and the #1 DE... which one do you take?

Answer: You take the one that fills the biggest need on your team.

Take Houston for instance. They already have Mario Williams and Andre Johnson. All things being equal, should they draft Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Jamaal Anderson, or Gaines Adams?

The Confessor
02-08-2007, 02:57 PM
I agree. if we are going to stick with Daunte Culepepper, and for now, signs point to "We have no choice", why not get him a guy who you could always send on a go route? Tell Daunte to drop back and if there's nothing else, do what you do best, launch the ball down field, to Ginn running like the wind. It worked with Moss.

If nothing at all, it will make defenses have to respect the long ball. How good of a route runner do you have to be to take off straight down field?

I'd rather have Quinn if he falls, Branch if he's there, Brown in a trade down, but if we have to stay at 9 with Brown being as big as a reach as Ginn, I'd like to have Ginn. I'd like to have a possible superstar and possible bust over a probable solid player.

A solid LT would be nice, yes, but it's not enough to take us to the next level.


Perhaps, and Daunte has one heck of an arm, but even he cant throw the bomb while on his backside.
If we dont get some serious horses up front, its gonna be another long season.

One think I have ALWAYS lamented over is the fact that you hardly ever see Brady get sacked (Cept against us of course:lol: ). That guy usually has time to go over not only first and second read, but ALL his progressions. Last year, our collective QB's didnt have time to try to spot the primary much less secondary.

So, unless our passing game consists of Ginn going long and the other nine guys back blocking, we better figure out the Oline---IMO of course:wink:

Motion
02-08-2007, 02:59 PM
While I think Ginn and Brown are reaching I belive Jerrett is top 10 in most polls. My question, now that ive thought about it better is this, "if we dont trade up or down, and lets just say every other team was smoking crack and picked horribly, who would have the most value (ill go ahead and say Thomas, C Johnson, and J Russell are gone but everyone else is fair game).

Do you still reach for a need position rather then the OMFG how is he still on the board pick?

I have to disagree with that. I've seen Brown higher overall than the other two, especially Jarrett.

The Confessor
02-08-2007, 03:00 PM
While I think Ginn and Brown are reaching I belive Jerrett is top 10 in most polls. My question, now that ive thought about it better is this, "if we dont trade up or down, and lets just say every other team was smoking crack and picked horribly, who would have the most value (ill go ahead and say Thomas, C Johnson, and J Russell are gone but everyone else is fair game).

Do you still reach for a need position rather then the OMFG how is he still on the board pick?


Fair enough, and I think you need to add Anderson to Thomas, C John, Russell...and probably Adrian Peterson as well, but point well made.

I still dont see Jarrett as a top 10 pick. I havent seen any of the "Big Boards" that have him higher than 16-20. If there is and I missed it, please feel free to show me.
I live in Pac-10 Country. Jarrett was NOT that big a blip on the radar scope coming to Tucson..

LeftCoastFinFan
02-08-2007, 03:02 PM
I agree. if we are going to stick with Daunte Culepepper, and for now, signs point to "We have no choice", why not get him a guy who you could always send on a go route? Tell Daunte to drop back and if there's nothing else, do what you do best, launch the ball down field, to Ginn running like the wind. It worked with Moss.

If nothing at all, it will make defenses have to respect the long ball. How good of a route runner do you have to be to take off straight down field?

I'd rather have Quinn if he falls, Branch if he's there, Brown in a trade down, but if we have to stay at 9 with Brown being as big as a reach as Ginn, I'd like to have Ginn. I'd like to have a possible superstar and possible bust over a probable solid player.

A solid LT would be nice, yes, but it's not enough to take us to the next level.

Besides, from what I read, Ginn is new to the position, works hard, and has a ton of upside. I could see him develop into a Steve Smith type of WR, and also provide a crazy return threat like we have never had.

This would not only open up things for CC, but would take some pressure off the running game. Teams would not be able to cheat the safety up as often.
:dolphins:

Itsdahumidity
02-08-2007, 03:04 PM
Perhaps, and Daunte has one heck of an arm, but even he cant throw the bomb while on his backside.
If we dont get some serious horses up front, its gonna be another long season.

One think I have ALWAYS lamented over is the fact that you hardly ever see Brady get sacked (Cept against us of course:lol: ). That guy usually has time to go over not only first and second read, but ALL his progressions. Last year, our collective QB's didnt have time to try to spot the primary much less secondary.

So, unless our passing game consists of Ginn going long and the other nine guys back blocking, we better figure out the Oline---IMO of course:wink:

:yeahthat:

Speed means nothing unless you have time to throw. To those who want a 1st rd speed pick no matter what, uh who is our starting LT? We have to pick Brown, especially if we're priced out of any top FA tackle before the draft.

LeftCoastFinFan
02-08-2007, 03:05 PM
While I think Ginn and Brown are reaching I belive Jerrett is top 10 in most polls. My question, now that ive thought about it better is this, "if we dont trade up or down, and lets just say every other team was smoking crack and picked horribly, who would have the most value (ill go ahead and say Thomas, C Johnson, and J Russell are gone but everyone else is fair game).

Do you still reach for a need position rather then the OMFG how is he still on the board pick?

I take the OMG pick every time, regardless of position.

The Confessor
02-08-2007, 03:09 PM
I take the OMG pick every time, regardless of position.


I agree, but neither Ginn or Jarrett are that player IMO. IF it is somebody that you reallyfeel is OMFG... then he be ready to be a starter from day 1...

Finole
02-08-2007, 03:15 PM
While I think Ginn and Brown are reaching I belive Jerrett is top 10 in most polls. My question, now that ive thought about it better is this, "if we dont trade up or down, and lets just say every other team was smoking crack and picked horribly, who would have the most value (ill go ahead and say Thomas, C Johnson, and J Russell are gone but everyone else is fair game).

Do you still reach for a need position rather then the OMFG how is he still on the board pick?

Let's assume Thomas, Johnson, and Russell don't fall to #9. That's three players gone leaving eleven players...

Adrian Peterson
Brady Quinn
Jamaal Anderson
Alan Branch
Ted Ginn Jr.
Amobi Okoye
Gaines Adams
LaRon Landry
Reggie Nelson
Dwayne Jarrett
Levi Brown

Any of those guys would be a solid pick at #9.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 03:16 PM
I hear what you're saying. But how do you place that BPA value on players in different positions?

If you have shot at the #1 WR, the #1 LT, and the #1 DE... which one do you take?

Answer: You take the one that fills the biggest need on your team.

Take Houston for instance. They already have Mario Williams and Andre Johnson. All things being equal, should they draft Calvin Johnson, Joe Thomas, Jamaal Anderson, or Gaines Adams?

Good point. But the BPA can never hurt your team. DE's get rotated, there's usually 2 or more WRs on the field, and you can move you're current LT to RT if Thomas is better or vice versa.

In our case, we have needs everywhere. Our CBs need a stud, Jason Allen may be a bust and if his career ended today, that's exactly what he'd be, OL needs lots of help, Culpepper is a question mark, Chambers pulls more dissapearing acts than Houdini in his prime. IMO, we can not go wrong with BPA but I wouldn't be upset if they reach on Brown or Ginn(if they are considered reaches by the time the draft rolls around).

I'd be much more comfortable if Mueller would come out and say we picked Landry(not my choice) because he was the best player at 9 even though Bell, Allen and Hill are serviceable than have him say we took brown at 9 because we needed an OT.

Motion
02-08-2007, 03:16 PM
Let's assume Thomas, Johnson, and Russell don't fall to #9. That's three players gone leaving eleven players...

Adrian Peterson
Brady Quinn
Jamaal Anderson
Alan Branch
Ted Ginn Jr.
Amobi Okoye
Gaines Adams
LaRon Landry
Reggie Nelson
Dwayne Jarrett
Levi Brown

Any of those guys would be a solid pick at #9.

Its all a matter of opinion at this point. I still don't think Ginn or Jarrett would be "solid" picks.

HybridPHIN 23
02-08-2007, 03:20 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?


your way off on the whole Jarret is a breakaway guy and that we havent had a guy of his speed since McKnight thats just wrong in too many ways.

The Confessor
02-08-2007, 03:20 PM
Its all a matter of opinion at this point. I still don't think Ginn or Jarrett would be "solid" picks.

And probably not LaRon landry at this point either

Dmarino110
02-08-2007, 03:20 PM
I agree, but neither Ginn or Jarrett are that player IMO. IF it is somebody that you reallyfeel is OMFG... then he be ready to be a starter from day 1...
okay Im big on Jarrett so for a minute forget about him. For the #9 postion who is you OMFG how is he still there player?

Motion
02-08-2007, 03:22 PM
And probably not LaRon landry at this point either

I disagree, Landry is a stud and could anchor our secondary for years.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 03:26 PM
Perhaps, and Daunte has one heck of an arm, but even he cant throw the bomb while on his backside.
If we dont get some serious horses up front, its gonna be another long season.

One think I have ALWAYS lamented over is the fact that you hardly ever see Brady get sacked (Cept against us of course:lol: ). That guy usually has time to go over not only first and second read, but ALL his progressions. Last year, our collective QB's didnt have time to try to spot the primary much less secondary.

So, unless our passing game consists of Ginn going long and the other nine guys back blocking, we better figure out the Oline---IMO of course:wink:


You are certainly right when it comes Tom Brady's protection. The guy has time to have an expresso and a smoke before he launches the pigskin.

But I have a feeling that even with protection, defenses will continue to dare us to drive 70-80 yards on them with out making a mistake. And as much as I hate to say it, I don't think we can do it. I think we are capable of maybe two 70-80 yard drives in a game and then we have to hope we punch it in for 6 to boot.

A talent like Ginn, if he can bring it to the NFL, will threaten to put up 6 points every time he touches the football. For a team that averaged 16 points a game, it doesn't get any more importnat than that.

Rubbin420
02-08-2007, 03:28 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?


If Thomas drops to 9...you pick him up. No doubt about it. Even over Quinn.
Dwane Jarrett is a reach at 9. Believe that. No matter what happens we will have some huge options at 9. We need to pick the best player available.

fish fan 4 life
02-08-2007, 03:30 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?
:clap: I couldnt agree more.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 03:35 PM
:yeahthat:

Speed means nothing unless you have time to throw. To those who want a 1st rd speed pick no matter what, uh who is our starting LT? We have to pick Brown, especially if we're priced out of any top FA tackle before the draft.

People seem to forget how good the Oline was gelling by season's end. Now, I'm definitely not of the opinion that we should hope that it transcends into next year, we should definitely take the initiative. But IMO, gun to my head you ask me what needs more help, our CBs or our OL, it's hands down the CB's.

I'm not making an argument for Leon Hall(don't like the 5'11 CB sorry) my point is that if the OLine were to take it's improvement into next year, and again I wouldn't just hope on it, but if they would, they'd be more than fine.

Look at what Lamar Smith was able to do with an okay OL and make no mistake about it they were just okay that year so don't go all homer on me.

What we've always lacked is a guy who can demoralize an entire team, an entire defense, an entire stadium by putting up 6 points in a couple of seconds.

The Confessor
02-08-2007, 03:42 PM
You are certainly right when it comes Tom Brady's protection. The guy has time to have an expresso and a smoke before he launches the pigskin.

But I have a feeling that even with protection, defenses will continue to dare us to drive 70-80 yards on them with out making a mistake. And as much as I hate to say it, I don't think we can do it. I think we are capable of maybe two 70-80 yard drives in a game and then we have to hope we punch it in for 6 to boot.

A talent like Ginn, if he can bring it to the NFL, will threaten to put up 6 points every time he touches the football. For a team that averaged 16 points a game, it doesn't get any more importnat than that.

I disagree completely. Our entire team right now is built around sustained drives-both offensively and defensively.
Once again, if the QB whoever it is doesnt have the time, not even Jerry Freakin Rice is gonna shred the d.
Also, not even Reggie freakin bush was able to single-handedly decide games. Do you think that Ted Ginn is gonna be able to?:wink:

dolfan121
02-08-2007, 03:43 PM
Let's assume Thomas, Johnson, and Russell don't fall to #9. That's three players gone leaving eleven players...

Adrian Peterson
Brady Quinn
Jamaal Anderson
Alan Branch
Ted Ginn Jr.
Amobi Okoye
Gaines Adams
LaRon Landry
Reggie Nelson
Dwayne Jarrett
Levi Brown

Any of those guys would be a solid pick at #9.
ditto

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 03:46 PM
I disagree completely. Our entire team right now is built around sustained drives-both offensively and defensively.
Once again, if the QB whoever it is doesnt have the time, not even Jerry Freakin Rice is gonna shred the d.
Also, not even Reggie freakin bush was able to single-handedly decide games. Do you think that Ted Ginn is gonna be able to?:wink:

Reggie Bush won two games by himself, ALL by himself. He scored the winning return to comeback in the last moments of a game and had three 20+ yard TD's in a N.O. was trailing in, two of which were screens where he just took off and did what Reggie Bush does best, what only reggie Bush and freaks like him can do.

Without those 2 victories, the Saints go 8-8 and lose a tiebreaker to carolina who had the better division record.

Motion
02-08-2007, 03:48 PM
Reggie Bush won two games by himself, ALL by himself. He scored the winnning return to comeback in the last moments of a game and had three 20+ yeard TD's in a N.O. was trailing in, two of which were screens wehere he just took off and did what Reggie Bush does best.

You can't realistically say that. He didn't win them by himself, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without decent blocking on front of him. I see your point but to say he won them by himself is a bit much.

Stitches
02-08-2007, 03:50 PM
You can't realistically say that. He didn't win them by himself, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without decent blocking on front of him. I see your point but to say he won them by himself is a bit much.

Unless he breaks 11 tackles you can never say that.

LeftCoastFinFan
02-08-2007, 03:56 PM
:yeahthat:

Speed means nothing unless you have time to throw. To those who want a 1st rd speed pick no matter what, uh who is our starting LT? We have to pick Brown, especially if we're priced out of any top FA tackle before the draft.


I agree we have to address the line, and I agree that LT is the leading candidate for upgrade. I do not agree with the premise that upgrading LT is the entire/only fix to the QB protection problem.

The line was playing better last year in the second half of the season. Not great, but serviceable. Several things contribute to them playing poorly, and also to them improving. The line was in flux from the year before, with no really clear starters at the beginning of '06 camp at any position except maybe RG. This continued into the season due to several injuries and reshuffling of the line. Add to that an immobile QB and some horrible play calling. By the end of the season, the line was starting to gel, the play calling had marginally improved, and we had a QB that could roll out.

I would gladly take another Richmond Webb with the 9th pick, but I also think that with the guys we have on the roster now, we could get a big, mean, nasty, G or C in FA and plug him in, and it would upgrade the entire line. Most of the sacks that I saw last year came right up the middle. And with CPep healed or Lemon in the backfield, we have a mobile QB not a sitting duck. With much better offensive play calling, (which has a HUGE impact on the line play!), I think we still end up with a line in the top half of the league.
I was not impressed with DMac two years ago, but he seemed to play much better at LT this past year, so if we don't draft at LT, I would re-sign him if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
IMO
:dolphins:

DRNEWBEE
02-08-2007, 03:56 PM
[quote=IluvJuMiami;1061781748]
And Reggie Nelson or Laron Landry, I think they are both solid players but I have a big problem going saftey two years in a row. Not only is it unfair to the franchise because maybe Jason Allen get's caught behind the rookie or frustrated with the thought of Miami not believing in him and lapses never getting the proper time to flourish, but safety is not a major need postion for us. We have youth and talent with Allen, Bell and Hill. IMO all three guys are more than serviceable.

quote]

I care not about Jason Allen's feelings. He's a career backup/special teams guy who happened to be picked in the first round. Let's draft Nelson and get a guy some attitude and pep on defense!

Phantom
02-08-2007, 03:57 PM
I coundn't take passing on Quinn, if there at #9 and watching him turn into another Drew Brees...........while we wait for a qb to return from a major injury, and hope he regains his form from 2004.....Ginn, also helps a stumbling return game, along with being and immeadiate deep threat....with all the wide recievers screens and end around runs, there will plenty of oppurtunities to use that blazing speed.....

finswin56
02-08-2007, 04:09 PM
I'd love him here also, but wasn't the knock on him his lack of speed? Maybe i'm wrong, but i could have sworn i heard that.
Yup. Jarrett has absolutely pedestrian speed.

Itsdahumidity
02-08-2007, 04:12 PM
I agree we have to address the line, and I agree that LT is the leading candidate for upgrade. I do not agree with the premise that upgrading LT is the entire/only fix to the QB protection problem.

The line was playing better last year in the second half of the season. Not great, but serviceable. Several things contribute to them playing poorly, and also to them improving. The line was in flux from the year before, with no really clear starters at the beginning of '06 camp at any position except maybe RG. This continued into the season due to several injuries and reshuffling of the line. Add to that an immobile QB and some horrible play calling. By the end of the season, the line was starting to gel, the play calling had marginally improved, and we had a QB that could roll out.

I would gladly take another Richmond Webb with the 9th pick, but I also think that with the guys we have on the roster now, we could get a big, mean, nasty, G or C in FA and plug him in, and it would upgrade the entire line. Most of the sacks that I saw last year came right up the middle. And with CPep healed or Lemon in the backfield, we have a mobile QB not a sitting duck. With much better offensive play calling, (which has a HUGE impact on the line play!), I think we still end up with a line in the top half of the league.
I was not impressed with DMac two years ago, but he seemed to play much better at LT this past year, so if we don't draft at LT, I would re-sign him if it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
IMO
:dolphins:


DMac will be an UFA and believe it or not he'll be the top rated LT :shakeno: now that's crazy. Anyway, FA starts more than a month before the draft so that's plenty of time for another team to throw a wad of cash his way. So again I ask who is our starting LT?

The days of us having just decent linemen will be behind us come this off-season imo.

Now as far as L. Brown goes he's a stud. I don't need to listen to these tv draftniks and/or web draft experts. From what little I witnessed this year Brown dominates the LOS.

LeftCoastFinFan
02-08-2007, 04:13 PM
I agree, but neither Ginn or Jarrett are that player IMO. IF it is somebody that you reallyfeel is OMFG... then he be ready to be a starter from day 1...

The point is that there are not many of those players in a draft. Johnson, Thomas, Russell, maybe Quinn. These are the OMG players, and of course you take any of them that drop to you at #9.

After that the water gets muddy. Do you take Branch or Okoye? I wouldn't, when we already have 4 young players with huge potential on the roster at that position. Adams or Anderson? Sure they could help, but I would shy away from the D side of the ball until we get the O shaped up a bit. You begin to evaluate need, because the value at several positions is much closer. The single, biggest aspect of the Fin's game that is lacking in actuality and future potential is the passing game. Upgrade the line, the WR spot, QB position. Out of all of those positions, the WR spot is the one with the least current potential on the roster, and the least potential to upgrade in FA.

again... JMO. :)

Dmarino110
02-08-2007, 04:13 PM
I coundn't take passing on Quinn, if there at #9 and watching him turn into another Drew Brees...........while we wait for a qb to return from a major injury, and hope he regains his form from 2004.....Ginn, also helps a stumbling return game, along with being and immeadiate deep threat....with all the wide recievers screens and end around runs, there will plenty of oppurtunities to use that blazing speed.....

I belive at this posting we has officially passed up on brees 2, 340, 231 times...

once again who is the best palyer out of the top 10 (right now anyways) if thomas, russell, and johnson are gone?

heres another interesting posibility,, say both linemen are gone and quinn is gone. what happens if peterson falls to us? Is he better then brown? does cam think he would be better for his style?

Heres 1 more for you. You are Cam Cameronand you dont care about needs at #9. You want to pick up the player that fits you and that ushers in your era. You dont even care if you move to the #1 spot to get him. Who is that player?

Motion
02-08-2007, 04:16 PM
I belive at this posting we has officially passed up on brees 2, 340, 231 times...

once again who is the best palyer out of the top 10 (right now anyways) if thomas, russell, and johnson are gone?
What if you don't think those are the top players to begin with? What if you see the huge bust potential that Russell has because he makes poor decisions?

heres another interesting posibility,, say both linemen are gone and quinn is gone. what happens if peterson falls to us? Is he better then brown? does cam think he would be better for his style? Trade down


Heres 1 more for you. You are Cam Cameronand you dont care about needs at #9. You want to pick up the player that fits you and that ushers in your era. You dont even care if you move to the #1 spot to get him. Who is that player?

Joe Thomas, because you've already stated you believe it all starts up front on both side of the ball.

Stitches
02-08-2007, 04:21 PM
I care not about Jason Allen's feelings. He's a career backup/special teams guy who happened to be picked in the first round. Let's draft Nelson and get a guy some attitude and pep on defense!

Wow, I don't know of anyone who is a decent judge of talent who thinks that.

LeftCoastFinFan
02-08-2007, 04:24 PM
DMac will be an UFA and believe it or not he'll be the top rated LT :shakeno: now that's crazy. Anyway, FA starts more than a month before the draft so that's plenty of time for another team to throw a wad of cash his way. So again I ask who is our starting LT?

The days of us having just decent linemen will be behind us come this off-season imo.

Now as far as L. Brown goes he's a stud. I don't need to listen to these tv draftniks and/or web draft experts. From what little I witnessed this year Brown dominates the LOS.

Leonard Davis or Mike Gandy are higher rated UFA LTs in my opinion. We should be able to sign one of them for cheaper than Brown is going to cost at #9.
:dolphins:

phins3454
02-08-2007, 04:24 PM
Trading down would be good if we get a good deal

For example, Carolina trades us Dan Morgan and their 14th pick for our 9th pick......14th pick would be good, we could still get Levi Brown and either Laron Landry or Reggie Nelson could be there, and the dark horse.....Dwayne Jarret

Motion
02-08-2007, 04:26 PM
Trading down would be good if we get a good deal

For example, Carolina trades us Dan Morgan and their 14th pick for our 9th pick......14th pick would be good, we could still get Levi Brown and either Laron Landry or Reggie Nelson could be there, and the dark horse.....Dwayne Jarret

What?!?!?

You do realize he's pretty much done right? Way to many concussions.

Stitches
02-08-2007, 04:30 PM
What?!?!?

You do realize he's pretty much done right? Way to many concussions.

I'd take Thomas Davis and thier 1st for ours, but not Morgan. No way.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 04:31 PM
[quote=IluvJuMiami;1061781748]
And Reggie Nelson or Laron Landry, I think they are both solid players but I have a big problem going saftey two years in a row. Not only is it unfair to the franchise because maybe Jason Allen get's caught behind the rookie or frustrated with the thought of Miami not believing in him and lapses never getting the proper time to flourish, but safety is not a major need postion for us. We have youth and talent with Allen, Bell and Hill. IMO all three guys are more than serviceable.

quote]

I care not about Jason Allen's feelings. He's a career backup/special teams guy who happened to be picked in the first round. Let's draft Nelson and get a guy some attitude and pep on defense!

Hence the reason why I stated "it is unfair to the franchise" and not "Jason Allen." If you think I choose Allen over the Dolphins I will tell you as plain as I can, you are wrong.

Allen may only need time to grow. If you don;t give it to him we'll never know.

IluvJuMiami
02-08-2007, 04:35 PM
You can't realistically say that. He didn't win them by himself, he wouldn't have gotten anywhere without decent blocking on front of him. I see your point but to say he won them by himself is a bit much.

I knew someone was bound to go there. At the very least it's from a poster who I consider to be very sensible.

Would you say that Marino wasn't the only reason this franchise stayed above water for as long as it did? you could defintely make the arguement, but in life evrything is debatable, everything has two sides. I know you need a center to snap the ball, a tackle to cover yourr backside, a reciever to catch it, but you know what I mean. Without Marino, the equation falls apart. Same goes for Bush in those two games.

Motion
02-08-2007, 04:37 PM
I knew someone was bound to go there. At the very least it's from a poster who I consider to be very sensible.

Would you say that Marino wasn't the only reason this franchise stayed above water for as long as it did? you could defintely make the arguement, but in life evrything is debatable, everything has two sides. I know you need a center to snap the ball, a tackle to cover yourr backside, a reciever to catch it, but you know what I mean. Without Marino, the equation falls apart. Same goes for Bush in those two games.

Well thanks :D

I definitely see your point. Too many variables for a definitive answer though.

phins3454
02-08-2007, 04:46 PM
What?!?!?

You do realize he's pretty much done right? Way to many concussions.

:lol: yeah I know it was just an example...a bad one though

alright let me try this again

for example, The Titans trade us Keith Bullick and their 18th pick for our 9th pick...

dang that sucks too..

just forget it ok!

I tried!

Miami shouldnt trade their pick at all

Motion
02-08-2007, 04:49 PM
:lol: yeah I know it was just an example...a bad one though

alright let me try this again

for example, The Titans trade us Keith Bullick and their 18th pick for our 9th pick...

dang that sucks too..

just forget it ok!

I tried!

Miami shouldnt trade their pick at all

Actually, if they throw in a 3rd or maybe even a 4th I'd take that in a heartbeat. He is still relatively young and the cornerstone of their defense, hence the reason they probably wouldn't trade him.

phins3454
02-08-2007, 04:56 PM
Actually, if they throw in a 3rd or maybe even a 4th I'd take that in a heartbeat. He is still relatively young and the cornerstone of their defense, hence the reason they probably wouldn't trade him.

Yeah I think he is very under rated

Motion
02-08-2007, 04:57 PM
Yeah I think he is very under rated

I agree

Phanatical
02-08-2007, 08:59 PM
I realize we have needs, but we have a top 10 pick. Unless you can get a 2 1st rounders or a decent 1st round and 2 or 3 other 1st day picks i dont see trading down.

right now Levi brown is listed as the 2nd best olineman but NOBODY has him listed as a top 10 pick. So why would we waste our pick? Why take advantage of the fact that we have an opportunity to pick up a stud at another position?

If Joe Thomas fell to 9 and so did brady it would be a hard pick for me. If things dont change now til the draft we would have a chance to pick up Dwayne Jarrett. I dont have the ability to pass up a 6'4 reciever with his ability. He is a break away reciver and we havent had a reciver that fast since mcknight (he couldnt catch but thats another issue).

I dont think Pep is gonna ever be at is 2004 season level again. I think he knee is shot, but if I'm wrong and he can play again then why not get a Moss clone (although a little slower) that he can air it out to?

And if Quinn manages to fall to us, why not pick up a QB that Weis said was one of the smartest he'd ever worked with?


Great post, I totally agree. I think the Phins would be well off with Russell, Quinn, Thomas or Brown. QB and LT is where the Dolphins should upgrade first. One of those four guys HAS to fall to 9.

GO PHINS~!

Phanatical
02-08-2007, 09:07 PM
IMO, reaching is taking one player over another because that player fills a need....Take the BPA.

I've never understood that philosophy. OK, if we had Marino in his prime and both Russell and Brown were available are you going to tell me you would take Russell? IMO, you take the best player available that will help your team win and in that case it would be Brown.

I don't care how many good DL or RB's are available, our guys there are fine and we don't draft there. The Phins need help at QB, LT, LG and CB. That's where they should draft first if there is a player available at the need position that they don't think will be available in the next round. If that need position would be available in the next round, then THAT would be a reach selecting them too early.

Just my philosophy on the subject. BPA isn't ALWAYS the best way to go.

GO PHINS~!