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View Full Version : Pat Willis... a Reach at 9?



NAPPS
02-08-2007, 03:22 PM
I personaly think we should take this guy. He's going to be a game changing LB. I think that if we passed on him we would end up kicking our selves in the *** for it later as hes breakin our guys down. WhAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

Motion
02-08-2007, 03:24 PM
I think there will be much better options at #9. I don't see Willis going til the 20s.

1985Dol-fan
02-08-2007, 03:25 PM
I think Pat Willis is an awesome Linebacker, But Coach Cameron Wont Take Defense with the First Pick. But we need to start lookin at replacements for good ole #54

Pocoloco
02-08-2007, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't mind him at all, but he's probably not an OLB in our system

TractorTraylor
02-08-2007, 03:31 PM
Willis is def. a reach at 9. He has great instincts but I couldnt justify him at 9. Trade down and pick him in the early 20s, sure. Take it with a grain of salt but Kiper says he had Willis as 2nd round material after the Senior Bowl. Personally, I couldnt see him dropping that far but he'd be a real steal in the 2nd (ala DeMeco Ryans last year)

Motion
02-08-2007, 03:38 PM
Willis is def. a reach at 9. He has great instincts but I couldnt justify him at 9. Trade down and pick him in the early 20s, sure. Take it with a grain of salt but Kiper says he had Willis as 2nd round material after the Senior Bowl. Personally, I couldnt see him dropping that far but he'd be a real steal in the 2nd (ala DeMeco Ryans last year)

Wouldn't surprise me.

BlueFin
02-08-2007, 03:40 PM
I personaly think we should take this guy. He's going to be a game changing LB. I think that if we passed on him we would end up kicking our selves in the *** for it later as hes breakin our guys down. WhAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

On paper, they would call it a reach, but if Willis becomes a Ray Lewis type all-pro, it won't be.

How much higher would Shawne Merriman have been drafted a couple years ago if they had re-drafted after his rookie season.

Who would have been a better 2nd overall selection, Merriman or Ronnie Brown?

I happen to agree with you, because of the position he plays he will be de-valued somewhat, and probably prove to better than many players selected before him.

lauderdale
02-08-2007, 03:40 PM
His stock dropped dramatically after a poor Senior Bowl. I would link to this but all the ESPN articles have been moved to Insider (which sucks).

finyank13
02-08-2007, 03:45 PM
I personaly think we should take this guy. He's going to be a game changing LB. I think that if we passed on him we would end up kicking our selves in the *** for it later as hes breakin our guys down. WhAT DO YOU ALL THINK?


yeah bro a major reach at 9, we need a sure thing...............

Vertical Limit
02-08-2007, 03:48 PM
There really is no linebacker in this draft that is worth taking in the Top 15. I like Willis, but he can't play OLB.

finyank13
02-08-2007, 03:49 PM
I think Pat Willis is an awesome Linebacker, But Coach Cameron Wont Take Defense with the First Pick. But we need to start lookin at replacements for good ole #54

hey your south florida bulls dont like playing with the big boys up here in the northeast huh? struggling they are, look at cinny to, it took them 6 yrs to lose 33 games, they lost 16-18 so far this year, its a different world playing in the big east I'll tell ya, although the gators are damn good this year, who by the way are head coached by billy the kid, PC player, former big east standout..................

Stitches
02-08-2007, 03:54 PM
I think Pat Willis is an awesome Linebacker, But Coach Cameron Wont Take Defense with the First Pick. But we need to start lookin at replacements for good ole #54

Actually we don't need a replacement for #54, we ned replacements for #58(Spragan) and #52. Crowder was drafted to eventually (and is still in line to) move to the middle and replace Zach when that time comes. Channing was drafted because of his value and versatility. Honestly we need 2 OLBs, not a MLB.

PhinfanUK
02-08-2007, 04:00 PM
I think Willis would be a huge reach at 9 especially considering he doesn't fill an immediate need for us. I think getting Paul Pozlusny with our 2nd rounder would be awesome and he may just drop that far.

Motion
02-08-2007, 04:02 PM
Actually we don't need a replacement for #54, we ned replacements for #58(Spragan) and #52. Crowder was drafted to eventually (and is still in line to) move to the middle and replace Zach when that time comes. Channing was drafted because of his value and versatility. Honestly we need 2 OLBs, not a MLB.

Poz in the 2nd, Everett in the 3rd? :D



Just kidding, btw.

popularwar
02-08-2007, 04:10 PM
People are saying Willis had a poor showing at the senior bowl? The guy made like every tackle, he was all over the field.

Motion
02-08-2007, 04:13 PM
People are saying Willis had a poor showing at the senior bowl? The guy made like every tackle, he was all over the field.

Yeah, I saw him on his back after Justin Leonard ran him over. Didn't hear his name much other than that. :D

FireInTheNole
02-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Lawrence Timmons :wink:

phins3454
02-08-2007, 04:41 PM
I personaly think we should take this guy. He's going to be a game changing LB. I think that if we passed on him we would end up kicking our selves in the *** for it later as hes breakin our guys down. WhAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

yes it would be a reach

Stitches
02-08-2007, 04:49 PM
People are saying Willis had a poor showing at the senior bowl? The guy made like every tackle, he was all over the field.

The week leading up to the game is as important (if not more) as what you go out and do in the game. Don't let his 8.5 tackles be your only factor in deciding how good he was.

Tony Montana
02-08-2007, 05:08 PM
I like Willis a bunch, but i agree with others tha say he is a bit of a reach at #9. Value wise i think anthony spencer or lamar woodly would be better in the 2nd round. Both fit into our 3-4 system better and at least one, if not both, will be available for our 2nd pick.

Pocoloco
02-08-2007, 05:30 PM
Willis will probably be an excellent middle linebacker for someone, but I doubt it's us.

Pozlusky would fit a lot better here. I, for one, think he's equally as good if not better than Willis, and there's a better chance he's available in the 2nd.

Stitches
02-08-2007, 05:33 PM
Willis will probably be an excellent middle linebacker for someone, but I doubt it's us.

Pozlusky would fit a lot better here. I, for one, think he's equally as good if not better than Willis, and there's a better chance he's available in the 2nd.

I agree with this. Puz was absolutely dominate at OLB 2 seasons ago, and even at MLB(coming off an injury) still played at an extremely high level.

alen1
02-08-2007, 05:59 PM
I personaly think we should take this guy. He's going to be a game changing LB. I think that if we passed on him we would end up kicking our selves in the *** for it later as hes breakin our guys down. WhAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

i agree 110%. i think we should take him. hes really nasty and he is in on every play.

Ronski_doodle
02-08-2007, 07:21 PM
If someone would have said Demecko Ryans would play the way he did he would've been worth the #9. If Pat Willis can play like mecko than he is definately worthy of a #9 pick.

Crowder52
02-08-2007, 10:44 PM
Just to show you the wide range of analysis you can read from the Senior Bowl, I'll supply some of the positive things I read about Willis.

Patrick Willis (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/102502), inside linebacker, Mississippi – Willis had already proven to all evaluators that he has an ideal combination of instincts, intangibles and the ability to play with and through a variety of injuries. However, this past week he stepped his game up one more level, especially against the pass. Willis had two interceptions during one practice session, and he was more fluid than expected in positional drills. That smoothness carried over to his play during the team portion of practice. Willis has very good leadership tools and could step into the right situation and start next season. The New Orleans Saints (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nor/) were just one of the teams that seemed to have an added interest, but his draft day destination could very well be San Francisco, since 49ers linebackers coach Mike Singletary has worked with Willis up close all week.

source: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=jm-seniorbowl012707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


And then Todd McShay, from ESPN Insider said the following:
Willis stood out as the most complete linebacker at this year's Senior Bowl. His quickness, instincts and toughness were evident during practices all week.

I would link to it but it's from Insider. It's especially odd that Kiper had a negative opinion of Willis despite the fact that he is McShay's colleague.

colmax
02-09-2007, 11:14 AM
Willis will probably be an excellent middle linebacker for someone, but I doubt it's us.

Pozlusky would fit a lot better here. I, for one, think he's equally as good if not better than Willis, and there's a better chance he's available in the 2nd.

Willis is faster, bigger, and stronger. Willis played all 3 LB positions in the 4-3 at the Senior Bowl. He had 11.5 tackles!! Named South's Defensive Player of the Game. The next closest in tackles on EITHER TEAM had 5. 5!

I do not understand the man-love with POSLUZSNY, but he showed in many games this year that he is still not 100% recovered from that knee. Talk about getting run over. LBs get ran over from time to time. But to get run over as consistently as Poz did this year. Makes one wonder what's up with him. There were many tackles this year when he might've been the first person there to tackle, but could not bring the guy down on his own. Poz may be a decent little LB in the NFL, but he is no Willis....

colmax
02-09-2007, 11:15 AM
The week leading up to the game is as important (if not more) as what you go out and do in the game. Don't let his 8.5 tackles be your only factor in deciding how good he was.

It was 11.5. And yeah, he did very well in the week leading up to the game.....

colmax
02-09-2007, 11:25 AM
His stock dropped dramatically after a poor Senior Bowl. I would link to this but all the ESPN articles have been moved to Insider (which sucks).

Dramatically? The guy gets Defensive Player of the Game and his stock drops? He comes in, surprises the hell out of Mike Nolan (who, btw, said Willis did better at the Sr. Bowl than DeMeco Ryans did when he was there) in his ability to cover very well. Practiced AND played at all 3 LB positions in the 4-3, and his stock still drops? Please tell me you're kidding. And please tell me that you would make a conclusion about someone's talent based solely on your observations rather than reading something someone wrote while passing time on the crapper. I would LOVE to read some of those "ESPN articles" about Willis. Did you even see the Senior Bowl???

colmax
02-09-2007, 11:27 AM
There really is no linebacker in this draft that is worth taking in the Top 15. I like Willis, but he can't play OLB.

Actually, he can.....and proved his versatility in Sr. Bowl practices and the game.

Crowder52
02-09-2007, 11:42 AM
The week leading up to the game is as important (if not more) as what you go out and do in the game. Don't let his 8.5 tackles be your only factor in deciding how good he was.

Do you mean the week of practice befrorehand is as important as the game to you or to scouts?

Motion
02-09-2007, 11:48 AM
Do you mean the week of practice befrorehand is as important as the game to you or to scouts?

I think he means scouts, which I would agree with.

Crowder52
02-09-2007, 12:02 PM
I think he means scouts, which I would agree with.

Oh I would agree with that statement as well in terms of what scouts look for. And from what I understand this is why many players pull up with "injuries" the day before the game, because they have given the scouts all they needed to see and don't want to risk a real injury playing in the game

I do, however, have a problem with this philosophy. So the game doesn't matter that much? It's the freakin' game! It's all that matters in my opinion. People get so obsessed over drills and times and measurables, we forget that what really matters is playing the game of football.

This is how guys like Demeco Ryans fall to the second round.

(note: It's obviously different for each position at the Senior Bowl, i.e. I'm not expecting a QB to have a great game in an offense he learned a week ago with new WRs. But linebacking is about instincts as much as anything, so I think the game is the best place to see that).

Psychosikes
02-10-2007, 01:35 PM
Unfortunately, the combine will seal his fate. I'd love to have him, but I don't see him being worth the #9. He has great instincts and one hell of a mean streak (attitude is so important for defense... look at bob sanders for indy).

I wouldn't mind trading down and grabbing him in the late teens or early twenties... but I think there is a better chance of some of the other linebackers having outstanding combines and sneaking past willis (IMO, this is why the combine is kind of broken. Willis is the best lb in this draft, but might not have the tangibles that scouts drool over).

Kyfinsfan
02-10-2007, 03:12 PM
I like Willis, but he is a reach at #9, IMO.

PewterKrew
02-10-2007, 03:47 PM
Wills is the best linebacker in this draft is he is there at 9 i dont think you lable the best linebacker in the draft a reach if it is a need

Stitches
02-10-2007, 04:25 PM
Wills is the best linebacker in this draft is he is there at 9 i dont think you lable the best linebacker in the draft a reach if it is a need

Considering all our needs and the talemnt likely available at 9, it would be a reach by most standards.

colmax
02-10-2007, 06:59 PM
Considering all our needs and the talemnt likely available at 9, it would be a reach by most standards.

LB is a need on this team, no matter how many ways you put it.......

Stitches
02-10-2007, 09:55 PM
LB is a need on this team, no matter how many ways you put it.......

I know LB is a need. We have tons of needs though, and there will be better talent (draft grade-wise) available at 9 than Willis.

finfan54
02-10-2007, 10:42 PM
People are saying Willis had a poor showing at the senior bowl? The guy made like every tackle, he was all over the field.


I know! This is not what I heard at all. Didnt he have like 11 tackles? Singletary said he was tops. It would not surprise me to see him picked by SF at #11. Willis is also capable of playing OLB. Where people pull this from is amazing.

finfan54
02-10-2007, 10:46 PM
How many "sure things" end up being busts. What is considered a reach is only according to rankings. Its not based on any real analyzing of a players instincts to play the damn position. Not his forty time. Not his bench press. Its all about knowing how to hit somebody hard and often.

Fineas
02-11-2007, 12:55 AM
Once a player shows he is good int he NFL, he will never again be labeled a reach. If you are actually going to trade back to get a guy later, cheaper and for some extra picks, then great. But that happens relatively infrequently. Had Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor and Mark Clayton been taken in the 2nd round they technically would have been reaches because they could have been taken later. But even if they had been taken in the 2nd, no one would be calling them reaches after seeing them play in the NFL.It wouldn't surprise me at all if Willis ended up being one of the top 2-3 players to come out of this draft.

colmax
02-14-2007, 11:33 PM
How many "sure things" end up being busts. What is considered a reach is only according to rankings. Its not based on any real analyzing of a players instincts to play the damn position. Not his forty time. Not his bench press. Its all about knowing how to hit somebody hard and often.

Here are some Senior Bowl highlights of Willis. The guy just has a knack for the ball. Check out his speed, too. He never gives up. I know there are players graded ahead of him, but Willis is going to be very solid in the NFL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKc7RYjdR-U

jdang307
02-15-2007, 02:52 AM
Once a player shows he is good int he NFL, he will never again be labeled a reach. If you are actually going to trade back to get a guy later, cheaper and for some extra picks, then great. But that happens relatively infrequently. Had Zach Thomas, Jason Taylor and Mark Clayton been taken in the 2nd round they technically would have been reaches because they could have been taken later. But even if they had been taken in the 2nd, no one would be calling them reaches after seeing them play in the NFL.It wouldn't surprise me at all if Willis ended up being one of the top 2-3 players to come out of this draft.
YEah but you don't know any of that until later. All you can work with now is evaluation and speculation. Flip it the other way, what if ZT JT MK been taken in the 2nd round and they don't play good? You get fired.

finfan54
02-15-2007, 08:39 AM
Bottom line for me: Levi Brown worth more to us than Patrick Willis in our situation. I'll take one supposed reach over another. :)

wonderl33t
02-15-2007, 06:52 PM
Lawrence Timmons :wink:


There is an idea that I can get down with :rawk: