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Samphin
02-11-2007, 10:09 PM
Peter Vecsey has been fairly dead on recently with Lakers news. I would absolutely LOVE this trade if we were able to somehow keep Walton, Farmar and the big men (Bynum who is untouchable and Turiaf). Give them Kwame, Shammond, McKie and draft picks and maybe even Mihm who is an expiring contract I believe and lets roll!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02112007/sports/nets/swamp_exodus_nets_peter_vecsey.htm?page=1

King Felix
02-11-2007, 10:12 PM
i heard farmar would be ibvolved but itd make no sense

Samphin
02-11-2007, 10:31 PM
i heard farmar would be ibvolved but itd make no sense

Actually, it makes sense for both sides. The Nets are going no where and need to shed salary. Trading both Carter and Kidd gives them wriggle room for the offseason. They have that rookie PG who is playing pretty good recently and giving him the reigns til the end of the season should help in his learning process for next year. Kwame, when healthy, is a defensive force and still young and would fit in with the rebuilding process New Jersey is going for.

For the Lakers, Kidd comes in and has Kobe, Lamar Bynum and Walton to dish the rock to for a starting lineup. Kidd and Kobe would be the most talented backcourt in a long time.

More than likely it doesn't happen, but the rumors are starting to build steam. I just read another article about this too.

King Felix
02-11-2007, 10:51 PM
Actually, it makes sense for both sides. The Nets are going no where and need to shed salary. Trading both Carter and Kidd gives them wriggle room for the offseason. They have that rookie PG who is playing pretty good recently and giving him the reigns til the end of the season should help in his learning process for next year. Kwame, when healthy, is a defensive force and still young and would fit in with the rebuilding process New Jersey is going for.

For the Lakers, Kidd comes in and has Kobe, Lamar Bynum and Walton to dish the rock to for a starting lineup. Kidd and Kobe would be the most talented backcourt in a long time.

More than likely it doesn't happen, but the rumors are starting to build steam. I just read another article about this too.
why would the nets want marcus williams and jordan farmar, thats the part that doesnt make sense to me....they should try and get lakers first rounder

Samphin
02-11-2007, 10:59 PM
Oh I think it is a given that the Lakers would be sending over draft picks. Farmar and Williams would be a great tandem for the Nets. You don't lose much imo, when you bring Farmar off the bench if you are New Jersey.

WestCKoastiN
02-11-2007, 11:05 PM
If J-Kidd comes i smell CHAMPS AGAIN!

Samphin
02-11-2007, 11:09 PM
If J-Kidd comes i smell CHAMPS AGAIN!

Maybe not this year, but he certainly puts them in a position NEXT year to do some damage. Once he is able to learn the Triangle offense and Bynum is finally NOT a teenager, this team should be amped and ready to make another run.

King Felix
02-11-2007, 11:13 PM
Maybe not this year, but he certainly puts them in a position NEXT year to do some damage. Once he is able to learn the Triangle offense and Bynum is finally NOT a teenager, this team should be amped and ready to make another run.kidd aint getting younger

wazzy
02-11-2007, 11:19 PM
This would help the Lakers alot but I still don't see them coming out of the West even with Kidd!

Jaj
02-11-2007, 11:24 PM
They would need to sign a player to be either veteran PF or the SF. In fact the role that Kidd would play would essentially be replacing that of the point forward (Walton, sometimes Odom). The Smush Parker role could then be filled by Maurice Evans who can hit from three in the corners. On defense the backcourt would play great at all three positions, decent at the 4 with Odom and solid at the 5 with Bynum soon.

Samphin
02-11-2007, 11:34 PM
kidd aint getting younger

He may not be getting any younger, but he seems to be getting better.

His shooting % is at the seocnd highest of his career. Just under his all time high in 98-99. His APG are higher than they have been in the past three years and his scoring is still over 14 ppg. He also is averaging a career high in rebounds at 8 per game.

Sure his is going on 34, but he is still one of the best point guards in the league and would be a boon for the Lakers for a ocuple of years. He certainly isn't a long term answer.

Also, he would be taking the ball out of Lamar's hands to be the distributor and speed the tempo of the Laker's offense up. I could see Bynum being the biggest beneficiary of Kidd coming to L.A.

Samphin
02-11-2007, 11:38 PM
They would need to sign a player to be either veteran PF or the SF. In fact the role that Kidd would play would essentially be replacing that of the point forward (Walton, sometimes Odom). The Smush Parker role could then be filled by Maurice Evans who can hit from three in the corners. On defense the backcourt would play great at all three positions, decent at the 4 with Odom and solid at the 5 with Bynum soon.


Why would they need to sign another PF/SF? Odom can play both roles as can Luke. Plus, they would still have Turiaf, Cook, and Radmanovich. All, with the exception of Turiaf can hit from anywhere on the court and Odom, Walton and Turiaf can rebound inside, as can Kidd.

Don't forget that Jason Collins probably ocmes with Kidd to make things work under the salary cap.

If Mihm's rumored return happens in April, they very well could be set inside with Mihm/Bynum/Collins/Turiaf. Odom/Cook/Walton and Radman can play various minutes at the 4 if need be.

Fresh
02-11-2007, 11:40 PM
That'd be an incredible trade for the Lakers, and personally, I'd love to see it. Honestly, I miss watching Kobe at least making it to the conference finals. Along with Wade, I can't think of a more exciting player to watch in the playoffs. Kobe Bryant made the first round fun to watch last year. I'm also a huge Odom fan, so I'd just really like to see the Lakers do some damage out West.

G - Kidd
G - Bryant
F - Walton
F - Odom
C - Bynum

^Line-up can REALLY cause damage.

Amars
02-11-2007, 11:41 PM
yep heard this about a week ago it may go down like this Farmar, Mihm, Kwame, Mckie.

King Felix
02-11-2007, 11:44 PM
That'd be an incredible trade for the Lakers, and personally, I'd love to see it. Honestly, I miss watching Kobe at least making it to the conference finals. Along with Wade, I can't think of a more exciting player to watch in the playoffs. Kobe Bryant made the first round fun to watch last year. I'm also a huge Odom fan, so I'd just really like to see the Lakers do some damage out West.

G - Kidd
G - Bryant
F - Walton
F - Odom
C - Bynum

^Line-up can REALLY cause damage.that would be a sick lineup

Samphin
02-11-2007, 11:45 PM
That'd be an incredible trade for the Lakers, and personally, I'd love to see it. Honestly, I miss watching Kobe at least making it to the conference finals. Along with Wade, I can't think of a more exciting player to watch in the playoffs. Kobe Bryant made the first round fun to watch last year. I'm also a huge Odom fan, so I'd just really like to see the Lakers do some damage out West.

G - Kidd
G - Bryant
F - Walton
F - Odom
C - Bynum

^Line-up can REALLY cause damage.

Bench:
G/F - Evans
PF/C - Turiaf
PG - Parker
PF - Cook
C- Collins
PF - Radmanavich
G - Penny Hardaway? (another constant rumor which makes sense since they would have to fill roster spots)

Amars
02-11-2007, 11:48 PM
heard about penny too comming to the lakers if there is open spot.

Fresh
02-11-2007, 11:49 PM
I forgot that the rumor doesn't even include Smush. Damn.

& yeah, Penny is a long time Kobe supporter and they eventually became friends. I think that it'll happen eventually, probably sometime after the trade deadline when the Lakers have a better idea of where they are as a team. Penny wanted to play in LA for years now..........

That'd be interesting. I'd love to see J-Kidd have the chance to contend again.

MikeO
02-11-2007, 11:52 PM
Id expect the NJ firesale to start any day now from all things I have read.

I think only Jefferson is safe.

Fresh
02-11-2007, 11:56 PM
Id expect the NJ firesale to start any day now from all things I have read.

I think only Jefferson is safe.

Marcus Williams is definitely safe. If he becomes available, I'd kill for my team to get him.

I think New Jersey should try to build around Williams, Jefferson, & Krstic by getting younger players + draft choices for Kidd and Vince Carter. Antoine Wright doesn't look like a bad prospect at all, either.

King Felix
02-11-2007, 11:57 PM
Id expect the NJ firesale to start any day now from all things I have read.

I think only Jefferson is safe.jefferson is one the most overrated players imo. plus he keeps gettin hurt it seems like.....for the nets sake i hope marcus williams is "safe"

MikeO
02-12-2007, 12:32 AM
I meant out of the "big players" Carter, Kidd, Jefferson........that Jefferson is the only one who is safe.

I didn't mean out of the whole roster. Just the "big" guys

Jaj
02-12-2007, 12:48 AM
Why would they need to sign another PF/SF? Odom can play both roles as can Luke. Plus, they would still have Turiaf, Cook, and Radmanovich. All, with the exception of Turiaf can hit from anywhere on the court and Odom, Walton and Turiaf can rebound inside, as can Kidd.

Don't forget that Jason Collins probably ocmes with Kidd to make things work under the salary cap.

If Mihm's rumored return happens in April, they very well could be set inside with Mihm/Bynum/Collins/Turiaf. Odom/Cook/Walton and Radman can play various minutes at the 4 if need be.

Mihm is part of the trade and as a Laker I would think you know how absolutely putrid Radmanovic and Cook are on defense.

Fresh
02-12-2007, 01:24 AM
I meant out of the "big players" Carter, Kidd, Jefferson........that Jefferson is the only one who is safe.

I didn't mean out of the whole roster. Just the "big" guys

Gotcha..........

Vertical Limit
02-12-2007, 01:44 AM
Should be interesting, though chances are, the likelihood of this happening are very slim. I don't expect any big trades to happen by the time the trade deadline comes along.

NJFINSFAN1
02-12-2007, 08:45 AM
Carter will be traded, Kidd will not be traded.

They want Kidd to be on this team until he retires, they want him as the selling point when they move into Brooklyn.

All things I have saw in the papers and heard from people I know that work for the team is Carter is the only big name they would trade, unless someone blows there doors off.

Enforcerfin33
02-12-2007, 09:15 AM
Carter will be traded, Kidd will not be traded.

They want Kidd to be on this team until he retires, they want him as the selling point when they move into Brooklyn.

All things I have saw in the papers and heard from people I know that work for the team is Carter is the only big name they would trade, unless someone blows there doors off.
Thats not the rumor bro,seems peeps have been calling tryiing to get Carter and the Nets have more then once said Kidd was available.

phunwin
02-12-2007, 09:16 AM
Sloooooooow down, folks.

This is a Peter Vescey rumor. Any long-time basketball fan can tell you that Vescey is notoriously inaccurate with his rumors and has pulled something directly out of his alimentary canal more than once.

This article seems to point to a Kidd to LA deal being more smoke than fire: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/496850p-418755c.html

Here's a thought: if the Lakers really wanted Kidd, and the Nets really wanted cap space and a couple picks, why not just swap Brian Grant and Aaron McKie (a little over $18M in expiring contracts) plus some first rounders? That's part of why I don't really get Vescey's rumor; the inclusion of Kwame Brown (who has another year left on his deal) doesn't help the Nets' cap situation nearly as much as Grant would. And one assumes that for a superstar point guard, the Nets would insist on serious cap relief, at the very least.

NJFINSFAN1
02-12-2007, 09:28 AM
Thats not the rumor bro,seems peeps have been calling tryiing to get Carter and the Nets have more then once said Kidd was available.

Dude, I live 20 minutes from where they play, I know two people that work for them, they will dump Carter, Kidd they want to keep. They will only Trade Kid if they are blown away with an offer. But they want Kidd for the reasons I stated above and to keep developing Williams (and they work on and off the court together with Kidd helping him big time).

Samphin
02-12-2007, 10:40 AM
Sloooooooow down, folks.

This is a Peter Vescey rumor. Any long-time basketball fan can tell you that Vescey is notoriously inaccurate with his rumors and has pulled something directly out of his alimentary canal more than once.

This article seems to point to a Kidd to LA deal being more smoke than fire: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/496850p-418755c.html

Here's a thought: if the Lakers really wanted Kidd, and the Nets really wanted cap space and a couple picks, why not just swap Brian Grant and Aaron McKie (a little over $18M in expiring contracts) plus some first rounders? That's part of why I don't really get Vescey's rumor; the inclusion of Kwame Brown (who has another year left on his deal) doesn't help the Nets' cap situation nearly as much as Grant would. And one assumes that for a superstar point guard, the Nets would insist on serious cap relief, at the very least.

Brian Grant isn't on the Lakers. In fact, he hasn't been on the Lakers for almost two years now. The Lakers took advantage of the one time exception to cut a player without having to pay the luxury tax when the new CBA came out a few years back. I think Grant is somewhere deep on Pheonix's bench the last time I saw him.

Furthermore, Vescey was dead on about Iverson going to the Nuggets, Kwame Brown to the Lakers and a couple of other fairly recent trades.

Samphin
02-12-2007, 10:42 AM
Mihm is part of the trade and as a Laker I would think you know how absolutely putrid Radmanovic and Cook are on defense.


Cook is god awful, and Radman isn't much better, you are right there, but Turiaf can play defense as can Bynum. Odom can play the PF spot as well and get hold his own. I don't know much about Jason Collins, but I assume he comes over with Kidd. If he can play any type of defense, I think L.A. takes their chances this year and sets themselves up for a big who can play defense in the offseason with the MLE.

Motion
02-12-2007, 10:45 AM
:( I sure hope not, he's one of my all-time favorite players and I'd hate to see him in a Laker uniform next to Kobe.

phunwin
02-12-2007, 11:08 AM
Brian Grant isn't on the Lakers. In fact, he hasn't been on the Lakers for almost two years now. The Lakers took advantage of the one time exception to cut a player without having to pay the luxury tax when the new CBA came out a few years back. I think Grant is somewhere deep on Pheonix's bench the last time I saw him.

Furthermore, Vescey was dead on about Iverson going to the Nuggets, Kwame Brown to the Lakers and a couple of other fairly recent trades.

ARGH! You're right. That's what I get from using the hoopshype cap page to calculate possible deals. I assumed he was just buried on the bench and they were letting his contract run out. http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

Well then, now Brown makes some more sense.

Motion
02-12-2007, 11:24 AM
Nets GM Rod Thorn said he will operate as he normally does as the deadline nears. He's listening to all offers and isn't ruling anything out. But he likely would have to be blown away by an offer in order to pull the trigger on a deal that would send either Vince Carter or Jason Kidd packing. (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/496850p-418755c.html) One local report yesterday suggested the Nets and Lakers are mulling a deal that would send Kidd to L.A. in exchange for a package of young players. But Kidd's name coming up in talks between the teams doesn't mean anything is imminent. Like Carter, Kidd's name is often mentioned in talks because he's a player teams would love to have.

Good, sounds like a weak rumor at this point.

Enforcerfin33
02-12-2007, 11:47 AM
Dude, I live 20 minutes from where they play, I know two people that work for them, they will dump Carter, Kidd they want to keep. They will only Trade Kid if they are blown away with an offer. But they want Kidd for the reasons I stated above and to keep developing Williams (and they work on and off the court together with Kidd helping him big time).
I'm just going on what I read on MSN,but Williams is coming along nicely so far.

Enforcerfin33
02-12-2007, 11:49 AM
Brian Grant isn't on the Lakers. In fact, he hasn't been on the Lakers for almost two years now. The Lakers took advantage of the one time exception to cut a player without having to pay the luxury tax when the new CBA came out a few years back. I think Grant is somewhere deep on Pheonix's bench the last time I saw him.

Furthermore, Vescey was dead on about Iverson going to the Nuggets, Kwame Brown to the Lakers and a couple of other fairly recent trades.
Grant retired, he was traded to Boston, and just decided to retire.

Samphin
02-12-2007, 02:43 PM
Nets GM Rod Thorn said he will operate as he normally does as the deadline nears. He's listening to all offers and isn't ruling anything out. But he likely would have to be blown away by an offer in order to pull the trigger on a deal that would send either Vince Carter or Jason Kidd packing. (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/496850p-418755c.html) One local report yesterday suggested the Nets and Lakers are mulling a deal that would send Kidd to L.A. in exchange for a package of young players. But Kidd's name coming up in talks between the teams doesn't mean anything is imminent. Like Carter, Kidd's name is often mentioned in talks because he's a player teams would love to have.

Good, sounds like a weak rumor at this point.

Posturing on Rod's part. He knows that Carter walks at the end of this season for nothing if he doesn't trade him. Plus, even if Carter does walk, they won't be under the Salaary cap at all or by very little. In other words, they won't be able to do anything at all to sign anyone. He needs to move both in order to free up Williams and get money available to spend next year.

The fact that he is acknowledging the rumors and not ruling them out completely suggests teams are talking and something is brewing.

Samphin
02-12-2007, 02:44 PM
Grant retired, he was traded to Boston, and just decided to retire.


Thats right. Good thing too. The Celtics are terrible.

FaninPatsyLand
02-12-2007, 03:08 PM
Thats right. Good thing too. The Celtics are terrible.

Easy now..

We'll be back soon with Oden or Durant.

Enforcerfin33
02-12-2007, 03:30 PM
Easy now..

We'll be back soon with Oden or Durant.
You do have to admit though, the Celtics have been "rebuilding" for way too long. There comes a point where maybe more then just the players have to be changed, and I'm talking about higher up than Coach.

Enforcerfin33
02-12-2007, 03:31 PM
Easy now..

We'll be back soon with Oden or Durant.
oh and BTW...cant you be stoned to death in Boston for being a Dolphins fan?

phunwin
02-12-2007, 04:01 PM
oh and BTW...cant you be stoned to death in Boston for being a Dolphins fan?

Nah, that's Buffalo, dude. That's why I moved. :lol:

Jaj
02-12-2007, 04:02 PM
oh and BTW...cant you be stoned to death in Boston for being a Dolphins fan?

Same as in Buffalo or New York. I did it once when I was a little kid, but wouldn't do it again.

Samphin
02-12-2007, 04:36 PM
Easy now..

We'll be back soon with Oden or Durant.


Just so we are clear, I am NOT a Celtics hater. I am a Laker fan though and would want nothing greater than to see both teams climb back to the top and face each other in the finals again. Of course, L.A. would win...but Boston isn't bad for second place imo. :lol:

Fresh
02-12-2007, 05:23 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_20790.shtml


Teams that also made offers to the Nets for Kidd are said to be the Miami Heat and Cleveland Cavaliers. The Heat have since redirected their efforts towards players like Mike Bibby. The Cavaliers do not necessarily have a package that can provide salary cap relief.

Motion
02-12-2007, 05:25 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_20790.shtml


Thats interesting, I'd love to see Kidd and James together.

FaninPatsyLand
02-12-2007, 05:44 PM
You do have to admit though, the Celtics have been "rebuilding" for way too long. There comes a point where maybe more then just the players have to be changed, and I'm talking about higher up than Coach.

I agree, but its difficult to get on management (specifically Ainge) at this point. He's brought in a ton of youngsters with incredible amounts of potential. Jefferson, Allen, Green, Rondo, West, Gomes.. the list goes on and on.

Maybe in a few years we'll be able to look back at Ainge and say his tenure here was a disaster, but at this point the guys are too young to even determine a known quantity. I don't think Ainge, or anyone else for that matter, knows what they have in this squad at this point.

UCFinfan86
02-12-2007, 06:35 PM
I don't think you can blame Ainge for the mess because he brought in a bunch of talented guys, its not his fault Doc Rivers is the worst active coach in the NBA.

icephinfan
02-12-2007, 06:42 PM
One local report yesterday suggested the Nets and Lakers are mulling a deal that would send Jason Kidd to L.A. in exchange for a package of young players. But Kidd's name coming up in talks between the teams doesn't mean anything is imminent.
-- New York Daily News

Samphin
02-12-2007, 06:49 PM
I would advise people to be more wary of Eric Pincus's pieces. He follows the Lakers fairly well, but most of his info comes from outside sources (in this case, Vescey) and he often predicts things based off internet chatter only to have to come back and say something fell through. For instance, he had Garnett going to the Lakers this past offseason, he had the Pacers and Lakers swapping first round picks and Bender last offseason. (Meanwhile both teams did nothing of the sort and L.A. picked Bynum who they had targeted all along if you choose to believe their GM).

So, I guess hwat I am saying is...I don't know what I am saying. :lol:

NJFINSFAN1
02-13-2007, 08:50 AM
Here are some quotes from the local paper today.

You don't trade one of the great point guards in NBA history for garbage, not when he saved the franchise from Stephon Marbury and a long tradition of whoop-de-damn-do


"I wouldn't trade either Kidd or Carter right now if I were them," said one Eastern Conference executive. "They're not going to get anything worthwhile in return, and they'd basically be giving up on the season if they do that."


Thorn is no dummy; he's proven as much in the deals that landed Kidd and Carter. The Nets' president knows if he ships Kidd to the Lakers for the expiring contracts and uninspiring bums they're reportedly willing
to ship back, he'll be tarred and feathered in the court of public opinion. If the Lakers want to talk about Andrew Bynum, the 7-foot-1 kid out of St. Joseph of Metuchen, then Thorn will move Kidd and happily hand Marcus Williams the ball.


The Lakers are saying Bynum is untouchable, so that ends that. Thorn isn't about to watch Kidd and Kobe Bryant win a championship or two while he's trying to sell future salary-cap relief to the people of New Jersey, fans who will realize the cap relief won't matter until the Nets hit Brooklyn.


The trade that should happen involves Jefferson, on draft night or beyond. The Nets should do what they can this year, keep Kidd and Carter together for the balance of their primes and then try to win a title with the returning Nenad Krstic and the frontcourt help they'd get for Jefferson.
It's not a perfect game plan for a parade. But between here and Brooklyn, it's the best available option on the board.

Enforcerfin33
02-13-2007, 09:02 AM
Starbury played for the Nets?

UCFinfan86
02-13-2007, 09:15 AM
Starbury played for the Nets?

He was traded for Kidd to Phx

NJFINSFAN1
02-13-2007, 09:32 AM
Starbury played for the Nets?


Lets say he was there, I guess you can call what he did playing.

Enforcerfin33
02-13-2007, 09:32 AM
He was traded for Kidd to Phx
OH YEH......I cant keep up with him:rolleyes:

Samphin
02-13-2007, 11:08 PM
Well, Ric Bucher said on ESPN that the deal happens if L.A. agrees to take Jason Collins (and his bad contract) back to L.a with Kidd. L.A. is apparently hesitant to bring back Collins and is looking for a third team to get involved.

However, the chatter is still there and Kidd is certainly on the block. The fact that his "back" is flaring up and he is sitting out adds more fuel to the fire. He is probably pulling himself out, or the team is to make sure he doesn't get injured.

Other rumors have the trade as follows:

L.A. gets: Jason Kidd
2007 second rounder

NJ gets: Kwame Brown
Aaron McKie
Jordan Farmar (the talent they want truly)
Chris Mihm
Shammond Williams
2007 first rounder

McKie, Mihm come off the books after the season as does Williams. Brown has one more year left after that and Farmar is a young talented PG that can compliment their rookie for years to come. Furthermore, they get much needed cap space because they will end up trading Carter as well for expiring contracts.

Bucher also said L.A. is interested in Mike Bibby, but I doubt anything ocmes of that.

NJFINSFAN1
02-13-2007, 11:13 PM
Well, Ric Bucher said on ESPN that the deal happens if L.A. agrees to take Jason Collins (and his bad contract) back to L.a with Kidd. L.A. is apparently hesitant to bring back Collins and is looking for a third team to get involved.

However, the chatter is still there and Kidd is certainly on the block. The fact that his "back" is flaring up and he is sitting out adds more fuel to the fire. He is probably pulling himself out, or the team is to make sure he doesn't get injured.

Other rumors have the trade as follows:

L.A. gets: Jason Kidd
2007 second rounder

NJ gets: Kwame Brown
Aaron McKie
Jordan Farmar (the talent they want truly)
Chris Mihm
Shammond Williams
2007 first rounder

McKie, Mihm come off the books after the season as does Williams. Brown has one more year left after that and Farmar is a young talented PG that can compliment their rookie for years to come. Furthermore, they get much needed cap space because they will end up trading Carter as well for expiring contracts.

Bucher also said L.A. is interested in Mike Bibby, but I doubt anything ocmes of that.

Never happen without Andrew Bynum

Samphin
02-14-2007, 12:44 AM
Never happen without Andrew Bynum


We'll see. Bynum is going absolutely no where. Kidd is going to be moved. Whether it is to L.A. or somewhere else. the Nets basically do not have a choice. Carter and Kidd have to go in order for this team to do anything over the next five years.
Carter can walk at the end of the year, but they get no real relief unless both go.

Fresh
02-14-2007, 01:24 AM
Never happen without Andrew Bynum

Andrew Bynum's name isn't even in the discussions.

Samphin
02-14-2007, 02:18 AM
Andrew Bynum's name isn't even in the discussions.

I think NJ knows that. However, if I was Thorn, I would ask for Kobe and Bynum in return. Even though you know the answer, you still have to ask i.

KTownsDolphins
02-14-2007, 02:23 AM
For me, as long as hes out of the Raptors division will make me happy. If he gets traded, you can almost rest assure the Raptors will win the division without a fight.

Samphin
02-14-2007, 02:25 AM
For me, as long as hes out of the Raptors division will make me happy. If he gets traded, you can almost rest assure the Raptors will win the division without a fight.


The Raptors should win that division with or without Kidd. They are finally turning into a good team.

ChambersWI
02-14-2007, 10:15 AM
I've heard Kidd to Cleveland rumos, and also Milwaukee.

Cavs are trying to get a true PG to play in front of Gibson. They've talked to the Kings about Bibby, and are now trying to get Kidd. From what I heard, the only players not available for a trade are LeBron,Gibson,and maybe Brown.

The Bucks on the overhand jst feel they need to shake it up a bit since Redd is still hurt.

a Name I'm going to throw out there is San Antonio and play Parker and Kidd together. Parker is a great scorer, but the offense is very stagnant, and Beno Udrih has been a huge disappointment. The Spurs ave a couple prospects over sea that they could trade(namely Louis Scola) along with Udrih and picks.

NJFINSFAN1
02-14-2007, 11:57 AM
Well, the Nets saw life without Kidd last night, he will be going nowhere!

Samphin
02-14-2007, 11:58 AM
Well, the Nets saw life without Kidd last night, he will be going nowhere!

But they are going nowhere with him. So why not shed the salary of both he and Carter and reload starting next year?

dreday
02-14-2007, 12:13 PM
I've heard Kidd to Cleveland rumos, and also Milwaukee.

Cavs are trying to get a true PG to play in front of Gibson. They've talked to the Kings about Bibby, and are now trying to get Kidd. From what I heard, the only players not available for a trade are LeBron,Gibson,and maybe Brown.

The Bucks on the overhand jst feel they need to shake it up a bit since Redd is still hurt.

a Name I'm going to throw out there is San Antonio and play Parker and Kidd together. Parker is a great scorer, but the offense is very stagnant, and Beno Udrih has been a huge disappointment. The Spurs ave a couple prospects over sea that they could trade(namely Louis Scola) along with Udrih and picks.

Agreed about Beno,he needs to go.Thats why we need that backup PG.Hmm thats something to think about.Kidd alongside Parker.I remember a time when talks about Kidd for Parker were going on.Imagine them playing together.

NJFINSFAN1
02-14-2007, 12:28 PM
But they are going nowhere with him. So why not shed the salary of both he and Carter and reload starting next year?

If they trade Kidd, no one comes to the game, he is the most popular player on the team by far, he is a coach to Williams, and the owner has him (No one else) going into Brooklyn to drum up sales for tickets.

They said with the way the east is, they can still win it, and they can if they get there heads out of each others @$$es.

Ferretsquig
02-14-2007, 12:33 PM
But they are going nowhere with him. So why not shed the salary of both he and Carter and reload starting next year?

Because they can't. Noone has the expiring deals to offer them to match those ridiculous salaries. Any fantasy trade with the Lakers is based around the 2 yr deal of Kwame....in other words there is no chance in hell its happening. The Nets can afford to wait until after the season. Carter isn't giving up his 16 mil paycheck and Kidd's value won't diminish significantly unless he starts getting injured again.

Amars
02-14-2007, 01:32 PM
Because they can't. Noone has the expiring deals to offer them to match those ridiculous salaries. Any fantasy trade with the Lakers is based around the 2 yr deal of Kwame....in other words there is no chance in hell its happening. The Nets can afford to wait until after the season. Carter isn't giving up his 16 mil paycheck and Kidd's value won't diminish significantly unless he starts getting injured again.

After I saw what happen with the shaq trade anything possible. Time for Mitch Cupcake to make up for that bad trade. Do it Mitch.

NJFINSFAN1
02-14-2007, 01:38 PM
After I saw what happen with the shaq trade anything possible. Time for Mitch Cupcake to make up for that bad trade. Do it Mitch.

Mitch may want to, the nets would never do it unless you add Bynum.

Amars
02-14-2007, 02:40 PM
Mitch may want to, the nets would never do it unless you add Bynum.

Get some young players/cap release or get nothing. If they are not going to the finals they have to move them and build. They can choose to stay in the land on mediocrity with a team getting older. I think vince have 1 more yr left and kidd is owed 41 mill over 2. :eek: Untouchable players -kobe, odom, bynum.

NJFINSFAN1
02-14-2007, 02:49 PM
Get some young players/cap release or get nothing. If they are not going to the finals they have to move them and build. They can choose to stay in the land on mediocrity with a team getting older. I think vince have 1 more yr left and kidd is owed 41 mill over 2. :eek: Untouchable players -kobe, odom, bynum.


Mark my words, Kidd will be a Net next year.

Roman529
02-14-2007, 03:13 PM
Peter Vecsey has been fairly dead on recently with Lakers news. I would absolutely LOVE this trade if we were able to somehow keep Walton, Farmar and the big men (Bynum who is untouchable and Turiaf). Give them Kwame, Shammond, McKie and draft picks and maybe even Mihm who is an expiring contract I believe and lets roll!

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02112007/sports/nets/swamp_exodus_nets_peter_vecsey.htm?page=1

He wants to get away from hs nutty wife Joumanna huh?
:sidelol:

Samphin
02-19-2007, 09:26 PM
Bump. For the simple fact that the rumor is still white hot and Vecsey is still insisting it will happen by the deadline. Kobe has chimed in on it and Kidd was spotted in the West's locker room talking with Kobe. May be purely coincidental, but then again...

ChambersWI
02-19-2007, 09:31 PM
Bump. For the simple fact that the rumor is still white hot and Vecsey is still insisting it will happen by the deadline. Kobe has chimed in on it and Kidd was spotted in the West's locker room talking with Kobe. May be purely coincidental, but then again...

Vecsay also came out and said Kidd could be dealt to Golden State, and there are 3 other team besided the Lakers and Warriors that have approached the Blazers about a 3 team deal to get Kidd.

Samphin
02-19-2007, 09:35 PM
Vecsay also came out and said Kidd could be dealt to Golden State, and there are 3 other team besided the Lakers and Warriors that have approached the Blazers about a 3 team deal to get Kidd.


The writing is on the wall imo. Kidd is heading out of New Jersey by the deadline. The Lakers look like the strongest candidate, but Cleveland, apparently Golden State (although I can't see why they would match up) and a few others are looking to retain his services.

BAMAPHIN 22
02-19-2007, 09:44 PM
Kobe: Lakers ‘definitely have to look at’ Kidd

http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/02/las11711280614hmedium-1.jpg
With the NBA trade deadline Thursday, Kobe Bryant says the Lakers should look into a possible trade for Jason Kidd.

Kobe Bryant and LeBron James could use some help for their teams, but they haven’t asked for it.

Both players said they hadn’t talked to their respective teams about any moves heading into Thursday’s NBA trade deadline.

Nets president Rod Thorn said there is a "5 percent chance" the team would make a trade by the deadline, ESPN reported.

The Lakers are one of the teams mentioned in the rumors of a Jason Kidd trade out of New Jersey, and Kidd came up behind Bryant for a hug Saturday afternoon. And although Bryant said “Who doesn’t” want a player like Kidd on his team, he didn’t know how much of a chance there was of it happening.



“I just kind of hear basically what you guys hear,” Bryant said. “I hear all the talk going on but I don’t really know the seriousness of it or the possibility of it.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17228488/

phunwin
02-19-2007, 09:48 PM
Vecsay also came out and said Kidd could be dealt to Golden State, and there are 3 other team besided the Lakers and Warriors that have approached the Blazers about a 3 team deal to get Kidd.


Bump. For the simple fact that the rumor is still white hot and Vecsey is still insisting it will happen by the deadline. Kobe has chimed in on it and Kidd was spotted in the West's locker room talking with Kobe. May be purely coincidental, but then again...

Rule #1 of NBA trade rumors: make sure they work under the cap (see Ferretsquig's earlier response.)

Rule #2 of NBA trade rumors: assume Peter Vescey is full of ****.

Vescey would start a rumor that Kidd's getting traded to the New York Yankees and will play center field, if it would get him airtime. Wake me when someone with some credibility cooks up a Kidd trade rumor.

Samphin
02-19-2007, 09:50 PM
Rule #1 of NBA trade rumors: make sure they work under the cap (see Ferretsquig's earlier response.)

Rule #2 of NBA trade rumors: assume Peter Vescey is full of ****.

Vescey would start a rumor that Kidd's getting traded to the New York Yankees and will play center field, if it would get him airtime. Wake me when someone with some credibility cooks up a Kidd trade rumor.

www.realgm.com has a nice trade checker there to make sure that trades, will in fact, work under the cap. I am well aware of the cap rules in the NBA.

As for the Vecsey comment, I normally would agree with you, but the man has been spot on in recent months.

Enforcerfin33
02-20-2007, 12:03 AM
If Kidd's back is injured this trade will not happen.

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 12:09 AM
It will not happen even if he is healthy!

At least I'm told from the people I know with the Nets, unless, the Lakers sweeten the pot!

Chavez Ravine
02-20-2007, 12:27 AM
It will not happen even if he is healthy!

At least I'm told from the people I know with the Nets, unless, the Lakers sweeten the pot!

I think it's a bluff. They'd rather have the 60 mil off the books.

King Felix
02-20-2007, 01:15 AM
i hope the blazers are involved if they deal magloire......im tired of his ****ty play........i dont care who we get aslong magloire is gone

SR 7
02-20-2007, 03:18 AM
its taking too long! come to lA KIDD!

Samphin
02-20-2007, 03:47 AM
Say...is that a fire? Let me add some fuel to it. :lol:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/20/sports/basketball/20nets.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

SR 7
02-20-2007, 04:07 AM
Say...is that a fire? Let me add some fuel to it. :lol:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/20/sports/basketball/20nets.html?_r=2&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin


THanks :)

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 09:21 AM
"No, I'm not politicking," Kidd said. "If that was the case I would talk to Rod and it would be something that we would explore. But right now, New Jersey has been great to me. So I don't look to go anywhere.


The rampant rumor is Kidd going to the Lakers in a package for Jordan Farmar, Aaron McKie, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm and a couple of picks. Team sources said the Nets aren't interested in that. If former St. Joseph of Metuchen star Andrew Bynum was involved, they would seriously consider it.
The Nets also aren't interested in a rumored three-way deal with Portland joining in and New Jersey getting center Jamaal Magloire and some of the aforementioned Lakers.
"I would say the odds of us trading anybody aren't very good," Thorn said.


http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjgmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODA2NjYmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Enforcerfin33
02-20-2007, 09:39 AM
one more day....

Motion
02-20-2007, 09:55 AM
Keep Kidd in NJ

Motion
02-20-2007, 11:41 AM
The Nets are more serious than ever about trading their star point guard, Jason Kidd, by Thursday’s trading deadline (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/20/sports/basketball/20nets.html?_r=3&ref=sports&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin), several Eastern Conference officials said Monday. The Los Angeles Lakers are the front-runners, but their offer of young players, expiring contracts and a draft pick is probably not enough to get a deal done. But according to three officials in the Eastern Conference who spoke on the condition of anonymity because no deal had been completed, the Nets have been trying to involve at least one other team in the deal. Possible offers from the Lakers could include centers Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown as well as point guard Jordan Farmar. The Lakers have been unwilling to trade forward Lamar Odom, their No. 2 player behind the All-Star Kobe Bryant, or Andrew Bynum, their young center.

:(

Samphin
02-20-2007, 12:06 PM
Again, the fact that the Nets are giving public conditions for a trade, indicate that they are ready to move Kidd. The deadline is Thursday, we will know then whether or not they choose to be a bad team for years to come or rebuild with plenty of cap room.

Enforcerfin33
02-20-2007, 12:17 PM
ESPN just reported theres a 70% chance it happens...not sure what that helps with.:lol:

Section126
02-20-2007, 12:21 PM
Again, the fact that the Nets are giving public conditions for a trade, indicate that they are ready to move Kidd. The deadline is Thursday, we will know then whether or not they choose to be a bad team for years to come or rebuild with plenty of cap room.



They are not a bad team when healthy.

If they made me their GM, I would put them in the ECF's. I am serious.


They are just a team that is managed horribly.


Rod Thorn is the most overrated front office person in all sports.

Motion
02-20-2007, 12:24 PM
They are not a bad team when healthy.

If they made me their GM, I would put them in the ECF's. I am serious.


They are just a team that is managed horribly.


Rod Thorn is the most overrated front office person in all sports.

Worse than Rick Speilman??? :eek:

Section126
02-20-2007, 12:38 PM
Worse than Rick Speilman??? :eek:



YES.

At least Spielman tried to improve the team. (and nobody thinks Spielman is all that great...so he can't be "overrated".)

The Nets have had a rebounding a post defense problem for 4 years...and all they do to fix it is to resign Cliff Robinson every year.

Motion
02-20-2007, 12:41 PM
YES.

At least Spielman tried to improve the team. (and nobody thinks Spielman is all that great...so he can't be "overrated".)

The Nets have had a rebounding a post defense problem for 4 years...and all they do to fix it is to resign Cliff Robinson every year.

True

Ferretsquig
02-20-2007, 01:41 PM
Again, the fact that the Nets are giving public conditions for a trade, indicate that they are ready to move Kidd. The deadline is Thursday, we will know then whether or not they choose to be a bad team for years to come or rebuild with plenty of cap room.

And where does this idea of the Nets having cap room come from?

Chavez Ravine
02-20-2007, 02:33 PM
ESPN just reported theres a 70% chance it happens...not sure what that helps with.:lol:


The weather man said the same thing:tongue:

Motion
02-20-2007, 02:56 PM
The New Jersey Nets are working to find a way to trade point guard Jason Kidd before Thursday's trade deadline, and the Los Angeles Lakers are the front-runners to acquire him, according to a report in The New York Times.

The newspaper cited "several" unnamed Eastern Conference officials, who apparently feel that Nets' president Rod Thorn will make a big move before the deadline arrives at 3 p.m. ET on Thursday. Thorn, however, has told other sports news outlets that there is a "five percent chance" that the team will make a trade.

The Times has reported that the Lakers are the best bet to acquire Kidd, but that L.A.'s offer of young players, expiring contracts and a draft pick probably is not enough to complete a deal that would effectively put Kidd and Kobe Bryant in the same uniform.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6488452

Enforcerfin33
02-20-2007, 03:23 PM
The weather man said the same thing:tongue:
Yeh and we all know how accurate they are.

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 03:28 PM
The New Jersey Nets are working to find a way to trade point guard Jason Kidd before Thursday's trade deadline, and the Los Angeles Lakers are the front-runners to acquire him, according to a report in The New York Times.

The newspaper cited "several" unnamed Eastern Conference officials, who apparently feel that Nets' president Rod Thorn will make a big move before the deadline arrives at 3 p.m. ET on Thursday. Thorn, however, has told other sports news outlets that there is a "five percent chance" that the team will make a trade.

The Times has reported that the Lakers are the best bet to acquire Kidd, but that L.A.'s offer of young players, expiring contracts and a draft pick probably is not enough to complete a deal that would effectively put Kidd and Kobe Bryant in the same uniform.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6488452

Yet all the local reporters say it won't happen without Bynum or Odom

And the owner wants kid here.

Motion
02-20-2007, 03:33 PM
Yet all the local reporters say it won't happen without Bynum or Odom

And the owner wants kid here.

I hope so.

Section126
02-20-2007, 03:52 PM
Yet all the local reporters say it won't happen without Bynum or Odom

And the owner wants kid here.

That's craziness.

I think the ownership has an over inflated opinion on what Kidd is worth.

SR 7
02-20-2007, 04:02 PM
ESPN just reported theres a 70% chance it happens...not sure what that helps with.:lol:

yea but to who did they say? or just said 70% trade will happen?

Samphin
02-20-2007, 04:03 PM
And where does this idea of the Nets having cap room come from?

They have to rid themselves of both Kidd and Carter. Trading Kidd for expiring contracts frees up millions of dollars for the offseason. Same goes for Carter, who they will most likely lose this offseason for nothing anyways.

By trading both, they guarantee themselves money and draft picks to rebuild.

Samphin
02-20-2007, 04:05 PM
yea but to who did they say? or just said 70% trade will happen?


Ric Bucher said the Lakers.

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 04:55 PM
Its funny how its 70% say it will happen out of NJ, yet all the writers here say very unlikely.

Fresh
02-20-2007, 05:26 PM
Its funny how its 70% say it will happen out of NJ, yet all the writers here say very unlikely.

Actually, it's always like that.

The Nets need to do this though. They need to trade Vince too.

No need to have those veterans SUFFER........

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 05:34 PM
Actually, it's always like that.

The Nets need to do this though. They need to trade Vince too.

No need to have those veterans SUFFER........

They don't need to do this, they have taken this area over and they do this, they fall behind the knicks, and the owner wants NY as his, and he has a big ego.

I still say they stay pat and trade Jefferson in the off season.

Chavez Ravine
02-20-2007, 06:01 PM
Yet all the local reporters say it won't happen without Bynum or Odom

And the owner wants kid here.

I don't think the Lakers would do Bynum or Odom for Kidd straight up

Samphin
02-20-2007, 06:29 PM
I don't think the Lakers would do Bynum or Odom for Kidd straight up

It would defeat the purpose. The whole point of adding Kidd to the mix is to have Kidd team up with both Bryant and Odom. Bynum is untouchable because in about three to four years, he should be one of the most dominant big men in the game and L.A. will not let him become that in anyone else's jersey.

Ferretsquig
02-20-2007, 06:45 PM
They have to rid themselves of both Kidd and Carter. Trading Kidd for expiring contracts frees up millions of dollars for the offseason. Same goes for Carter, who they will most likely lose this offseason for nothing anyways.

By trading both, they guarantee themselves money and draft picks to rebuild.

Trading Kidd for expiring deals frees up enough for the Nets to sign some second tier free agent and still remain under the cap. Trading Kidd for Kwame Brown does absolutely nothing for the Nets.

Where is Carter going? Certainly nowhere that will pay him 16 mil. I don't think hes an idiot when it comes to collecting cash and it doesn't take much effort to see there are a bunch of FAs and not much cap room to go around. Billups, Wallace, and Lewis are the only locks to get big deals. He'd love to get a sign and trade, but noone is going to take on an 80 million dollar Vince.

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 06:51 PM
Trading Kidd for expiring deals frees up enough for the Nets to sign some second tier free agent and still remain under the cap. Trading Kidd for Kwame Brown does absolutely nothing for the Nets.

Where is Carter going? Certainly nowhere that will pay him 16 mil. I don't think hes an idiot when it comes to collecting cash and it doesn't take much effort to see there are a bunch of FAs and not much cap room to go around. Billups, Wallace, and Lewis are the only locks to get big deals. He'd love to get a sign and trade, but noone is going to take on an 80 million dollar Vince.


100% correct

They would love to move Carter, but the market for him isn't the greatest, Carter and Jefferson play a similiar game, that's why I say Jefferson will be traded in the off season when he proves he is healthy.

Samphin
02-20-2007, 07:08 PM
Trading Kidd for expiring deals frees up enough for the Nets to sign some second tier free agent and still remain under the cap. Trading Kidd for Kwame Brown does absolutely nothing for the Nets.

Where is Carter going? Certainly nowhere that will pay him 16 mil. I don't think hes an idiot when it comes to collecting cash and it doesn't take much effort to see there are a bunch of FAs and not much cap room to go around. Billups, Wallace, and Lewis are the only locks to get big deals. He'd love to get a sign and trade, but noone is going to take on an 80 million dollar Vince.


That is why both Carter AND Kidd have to go in order for them to have money. Also, Brown only has two years on his deal. Rebuilding takes longer than one offseason, especially if you are trying to do it right. Brown becomes a huge trading chip next year for the Nets if they feel the need to move him.

Greg Anthony is on ESPN Radio right now and had the following update:

-He doubts Pau Gasol gets traded. Too old and not enough impact to help a team out in theplayoffs.

-Believes Jason Kidd should and will be moved before the deadline. Doesn't think New Jersey can afford NOT to trade Kidd. Stated that Kidd's value will be even LESS during the offseason (mainly due to Kidd's ability to have an immediate impact for the playoffs? My guess anyway).

Amars
02-20-2007, 07:40 PM
If the deal goes down it will have to involve a 3rd team.

ChambersWI
02-20-2007, 08:16 PM
That is why both Carter AND Kidd have to go in order for them to have money. Also, Brown only has two years on his deal. Rebuilding takes longer than one offseason, especially if you are trying to do it right. Brown becomes a huge trading chip next year for the Nets if they feel the need to move him.

Greg Anthony is on ESPN Radio right now and had the following update:

-He doubts Pau Gasol gets traded. Too old and not enough impact to help a team out in theplayoffs.

-Believes Jason Kidd should and will be moved before the deadline. Doesn't think New Jersey can afford NOT to trade Kidd. Stated that Kidd's value will be even LESS during the offseason (mainly due to Kidd's ability to have an immediate impact for the playoffs? My guess anyway).

Greg Anthony proved he himself to be an idiot by calling Gasol too old, and won't make an impact. Gasol is only in his mid 20's, and the Grizz lack of playoff success does not go on Gasol's shoulders. The first year they made the playoffs, no one on the team averaged over 30 minutes a game, and they didn't have a go to guy. The next year Gasol,Williams,Posey,Wells, and Miller all missed significant time due to injury. Last year, Gasol did is part in keeping most o the games close, i just game down to the fact that no one could guad Nowitski, and the PG play sucked. People forget, Gasol missed 20+games due to injury this year, and this team is not the same team he played with last year (no Jackson,Jones missed a lot of time then got waived, Stoudamire didn't play most of last year, Swift is back, no Battier, Warrick and and Roberts getting PT, then you add Johnson and Gay, and Lowry when he ges back).

I think if Kidd gets traded, it will be to a team nobody is expecting.

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 08:19 PM
If the deal goes down it will have to involve a 3rd team.

or


http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif

Ferretsquig
02-20-2007, 08:58 PM
That is why both Carter AND Kidd have to go in order for them to have money. Also, Brown only has two years on his deal. Rebuilding takes longer than one offseason, especially if you are trying to do it right. Brown becomes a huge trading chip next year for the Nets if they feel the need to move him.

Just curious...why are you so desperate to believe this? It seems you like trying to convince yourself that something as improbable as this is going to happen.

ChambersWI
02-20-2007, 09:20 PM
Just curious...why are you so desperate to believe this? It seems you like trying to convince yourself that something as improbable as this is going to happen.

I was reading stuff over at insidehoops, and they said that both are being shopped. Also said the Nets will not consider dealing Kidd to LA unless 1)they take Collins as well 2)Bynum is included. Otherwise, the deal will not be accepted since they have no interest in Jamaal Magloire(who the Blazers were willing to part with as well as Juan Dixon in a 3 team deal). It basically said unless the Nets get players that can help right now AND down the road, they won't trade Kidd.

Carter is a different story.

Section126
02-20-2007, 09:36 PM
This is soooooo stupid.

The Nets must not want to win.

Resign Vince...keep Kidd.

Trade Jefferson for Chris Wilcox. (The Sonics made that offer last year).

They have the mid level next year, ADD REBOUNDING. Hit the pavement and find a shooter off the bench....

VOILA...playoffs...division championship....EC contender.

Samphin
02-20-2007, 10:54 PM
Just curious...why are you so desperate to believe this? It seems you like trying to convince yourself that something as improbable as this is going to happen.


Same question could be asked to you right? Quite frankly, I am not the one who started the rumor now am I? Unless, of course, you believe that Vescey, Bucher, Dan Patrick, Greg Anthony and the rest of the sports media were controlled by me.

:rolleyes: I don't need to be convinced of anything. I am not desperate to believe anything either, despite what you might think, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. I am simply putting a viewpoint out there in regards to the Nets long term success. The simple fact is that they will not win anything with Kidd and Carter on that roster. Together, those two combine for nearly 35 million in salary. Trading away both for expiring contracts and young, cheap TALENTED players makes good business sense.

Keeping Kidd around for the sake of trying to put a few people in the stands is foolish. It doesn't work and they are simply delaying the process that they will have to go through in a year or two. Despite what others think, Kidd is not in a position to be the first or even second scoring option anymore, in addition to his others duties. Kidd going to the Lakers alleviates that problem and helps the Nets in the long term by clearing up space getting younger, talented players and a bunch of draft picks to help build the roster up again in a few years.

People who think that keeping Kidd and Carter together as the nucleus to this team are fooling themselves. The Nets won't be a serious contender to anything if they do that, and they get to go through this painful rebuilding process in a year or so from now with even less to show for it.

Amars
02-21-2007, 01:28 AM
In reality I dont think the trade will happen unless we give up bynum. That's not going to happen giving up a 19 yr old Center who developing well for a aging PG with back problems and 2 yrs left. Unless a 3rd team comes in its going to be tough to get it done.

SR 7
02-21-2007, 01:37 AM
thats why i dotn wan give up on farmar either. he is 21? and i like him a lot

Chavez Ravine
02-21-2007, 02:54 AM
The bynum rumor has to be a bluff on the Nets part trying to get more.

Samphin
02-21-2007, 03:01 AM
There is no Bynum rumor. He isn't getting traded. Period. The Nets either accept the Lakers offer or no deal gets done at all.

Ferretsquig
02-21-2007, 08:29 AM
Oh you're a Laker's fan....now I get it. Sorry...must of missed that.

NJFINSFAN1
02-21-2007, 08:39 AM
Oh you're a Laker's fan....now I get it. Sorry...must of missed that.

You just figured that out!:lol:

NJFINSFAN1
02-21-2007, 09:05 AM
Jason Kidd being dealt appeared to be lessening, as sources said the Nets are not actively seeking a third team to include in a possible Kidd deal.


The Lakers and Golden State were in the mix, but Los Angeles is the front-runner if Kidd were to be moved. Sources indicate the Lakers offered Jordan Farmar, Aaron McKie, Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown for Kidd. Mihm and Brown are out with injuries

For the Nets to move Kidd to the Lakers, second-year center Andrew Bynum, a Plainsboro native, would have to be part of the deal, although veteran forward Lamar Odom also would be attractive to the Nets. The Nets also would part with Jason Collins as part of the package.


Carter seems to be the one on the way out the door.

Reportedly, the Nets are talking with the Clippers about a package that would include 6-foot-7 guard Shaun Livingston. But two sources denied that Tuesday night. Earlier this season, the Nets were unwilling to trade Carter to the Clippers for Cuttino Mobley and Corey Maggette. Seattle is a possibility for Carter.

League sources say that teams from both conferences are interested in Carter, and the Nets could be willing to move him for a package of "good players" that includes a big man.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjgmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODEwNTImeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Section126
02-21-2007, 11:47 AM
There is no Bynum rumor. He isn't getting traded. Period. The Nets either accept the Lakers offer or no deal gets done at all.

What offer?

Ferretsquig
02-21-2007, 12:46 PM
What offer?

Some sportswriter decided he needed something to print so he went to realGM and added up some contracts, then wrote of the impending deal....which of course he had confirmed with numerous league sources. Then all the message board nuts who had nothing better to do began propogating it and it went from some random person's deadline garbage to becoming a reality. Apparently, not only do the Laker's fans know its going to happen, they also know its for the betterment of the Nets, and the only way that team is going to improve.

Section126
02-21-2007, 12:55 PM
Some sportswriter decided he needed something to print so he went to realGM and added up some contracts, then wrote of the impending deal....which of course he had confirmed with numerous league sources. Then all the message board nuts who had nothing better to do began propogating it and it went from some random person's deadline garbage to becoming a reality. Apparently, not only do the Laker's fans know its going to happen, they also know its for the betterment of the Nets, and the only way that team is going to improve.



Of course...because trading HOFers for nothing and cap space enough to sign the Chucky Atkins of this world is the way you improve.

GreenMonster
02-21-2007, 02:01 PM
Of course...because trading HOFers for nothing and cap space enough to sign the Chucky Atkins of this world is the way you improve.

I totally agree, I don't see either team caving in really.. If your the Nets why move Kidd for Farmer and some cap space. If your the Lakers, Bynum is a big price to pay for 2 years of Kidd, with no frontline.

MikeO
02-21-2007, 02:55 PM
Rod Thorn is a great GM and whatever he does I am sure will be the best move for that team.

SR 7
02-21-2007, 02:58 PM
I totally agree, I don't see either team caving in really.. If your the Nets why move Kidd for Farmer and some cap space. If your the Lakers, Bynum is a big price to pay for 2 years of Kidd, with no frontline.

Farmar was NEVER included in any talks according to team sources/jackson.

NJFINSFAN1
02-21-2007, 03:01 PM
Farmar was NEVER included in any talks according to team sources/jackson.

He was in most the trade possiblities I saw.

SR 7
02-21-2007, 03:04 PM
He was in most the trade possiblities I saw.

you mean most RUMORS

http://www.pe.com/sports/basketball/breakout/stories/PE_Sports_Local_D_lakers_21.1d95037.html

Section126
02-21-2007, 03:07 PM
Rod Thorn is a great GM and whatever he does I am sure will be the best move for that team.



Based on what?

The guy gets all these accolades for nothing.

Anybody with eyes can see that the last three years...the elite teams in the East are the Pistons and Heat. Both teams have a rebounding edge that translates into the Heat beating them 4-0 and 4-1 in the playoffs. yet they do nothing to address it.

NJFINSFAN1
02-21-2007, 03:12 PM
Based on what?

The guy gets all these accolades for nothing.

Anybody with eyes can see that the last three years...the elite teams in the East are the Pistons and Heat. Both teams have a rebounding edge that translates into the Heat beating them 4-0 and 4-1 in the playoffs. yet they do nothing to address it.

I think his hands have been tied some by Ratner and this move to Brooklyn.

Samphin
02-21-2007, 08:00 PM
I love the fact that ferret is so much more enlightened than everyone else. Oh please oh wise one, please tell us how much more wise you are. Afterall, apparently you aren't on the same message board responding to over and over to some "lame rumor" that you know for a fact to be false and have no merit at all. :rolleyes: Please get off your high horse...or ferret or whatever you are on and quit taking yourself so seriously.

phunwin
02-21-2007, 10:05 PM
www.realgm.com has a nice trade checker there to make sure that trades, will in fact, work under the cap. I am well aware of the cap rules in the NBA.

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. I can't remember whose comment that was for, but I didn't mean to bash you.


As for the Vecsey comment, I normally would agree with you, but the man has been spot on in recent months.

Even a blind squirrel can bust a nut sometimes, or however that goes.

In any event, I remain ultra-skeptical about this Kidd to LA thing. If it happens, great for the Lakers. But it just doesn't make sense for the Nets. Some cap room over the next two years for one of the few legit point guards in the NBA who can still run an offense at an extremely high level and contribute at both ends? Heck, at least the Nuggets got a decent player in Andre Miller when they shipped out Iverson for salary cap space. The Nets, if the rumors are true, are getting trash, junk and crap. I just can't believe Rod Thorn is that dumb, no matter how overrated he may be.

Fresh
02-21-2007, 10:29 PM
Its funny how its 70% say it will happen out of NJ, yet all the writers here say very unlikely.

When everyone is healthy, the Nets still don't have a crying chance in the East.

Why wouldn't you want to start fresh and build around Marcus?

NJFINSFAN1
02-21-2007, 10:39 PM
When everyone is healthy, the Nets still don't have a crying chance in the East.

Why wouldn't you want to start fresh and build around Marcus?

:lol: You don't watch the Nets much do you, 2/3rds of the lineup is out!

They are one solid big man away.

UCFinfan86
02-21-2007, 11:46 PM
:lol: You don't watch the Nets much do you, 2/3rds of the lineup is out!

They are one solid big man away.

How are they gonna get that bigman? If you keep kidd and VC u dont have cap room and if you trade one or both of them then your more then a bigman away.

wazzy
02-21-2007, 11:52 PM
Richard Jefferson also makes like 16 million a year or something! Like Nets need to get rid of someone and I think they should get rid of Vince in exchange for something solid in return!

Rocky Raccoon
02-22-2007, 12:13 AM
How are they gonna get that bigman? If you keep kidd and VC u dont have cap room and if you trade one or both of them then your more then a bigman away.

not if Marcus Williams can become a star. He's basically Kidd's replacement.

wazzy
02-22-2007, 12:21 AM
not if Marcus Williams can become a star. He's basically Kidd's replacement.

So far what I have noticed from Marcus Williams is that hes not ready yet!

Samphin
02-22-2007, 12:27 AM
At this point, it is looking less likely to happen. All the supposed pieces are playing in their respective games tonight (with the exception of the injured Laker players). I highly doubt they would allow them to play tonight, if a deal was to happen before the deadline.

There is still time though, so you never know. I really think the Nets are making a mistake here. Even if they don't trade Kidd to the Lakers, they still need to shed the salaries of both he and Carter in order to make way for their future. It is better to get rid of a player a year too early than a year too late.

Samphin
02-22-2007, 12:30 AM
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you. I can't remember whose comment that was for, but I didn't mean to bash you.



Even a blind squirrel can bust a nut sometimes, or however that goes.

In any event, I remain ultra-skeptical about this Kidd to LA thing. If it happens, great for the Lakers. But it just doesn't make sense for the Nets. Some cap room over the next two years for one of the few legit point guards in the NBA who can still run an offense at an extremely high level and contribute at both ends? Heck, at least the Nuggets got a decent player in Andre Miller when they shipped out Iverson for salary cap space. The Nets, if the rumors are true, are getting trash, junk and crap. I just can't believe Rod Thorn is that dumb, no matter how overrated he may be.

No worries mate. You and NJ are actually fun and reasonable to talk to with opposing viewpoints. :cooldude:

FinsNYanksFan13
02-22-2007, 01:44 AM
If the Lakers aren't parting with Odom or Bynum, I don't understand why the Nets would be even remotely interested. IMO Walton, Farmar, draft picks, and anyone else on the roster isn't enough for the Nets to give up Kidd. Unless this is strictly a salary cap dump (which it may be) I can't see what the Nets will be getting out of a trade to the Lakers!

Samphin
02-22-2007, 04:24 AM
If the Lakers aren't parting with Odom or Bynum, I don't understand why the Nets would be even remotely interested. IMO Walton, Farmar, draft picks, and anyone else on the roster isn't enough for the Nets to give up Kidd. Unless this is strictly a salary cap dump (which it may be) I can't see what the Nets will be getting out of a trade to the Lakers!

Who said anything about Walton? Frankly, I would give up Odom before Walton. Luke is very unique in that he probably doesn't contribute nearly as much on in any other system but the triangle. It really is the best system to utuilize his strengths and cover his weaknesses.

If I was a Nets fan, I wouldn't want Walton, but as a Lakers fan, I want him nowhere else.

shipwreck
02-22-2007, 04:31 AM
Doubt it will happen, but its nice to think about. Not sure how well Kidd would play with Kobe, considering how much Kobe likes having the ball in his hands.

Samphin
02-22-2007, 09:30 AM
Doubt it will happen, but its nice to think about. Not sure how well Kidd would play with Kobe, considering how much Kobe likes having the ball in his hands.

That is a misnomer, that I think has been debunked this year. Kobe takes less shots than last year and his assists are up. Yes he likes to shoot, but when you are as good as he is at it, why wouldn't you? Besides, Kidd likes to defer and rack up assistns moreso than points. It would seem to work out fine.

Motion
02-22-2007, 11:12 AM
Jason Kidd has been linked with the Lakers all along. But the Phoenix Suns, perhaps to block Los Angeles from getting Kidd, offered a package that included Kurt Thomas, Raja Bell and the Hawks' first-round pick that came in the Joe Johnson trade (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMDYmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODE1NTcmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2), the sources said.

UCFinfan86
02-22-2007, 11:34 AM
Jason Kidd has been linked with the Lakers all along. But the Phoenix Suns, perhaps to block Los Angeles from getting Kidd, offered a package that included Kurt Thomas, Raja Bell and the Hawks' first-round pick that came in the Joe Johnson trade (http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMDYmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODE1NTcmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2), the sources said.

Wow imagine the passes you would see if Kidd and Nash were together. However i dont think that would work great, Nash can't guard a 2 guard, idk if Kidd can, and if he can could he do it for a whole game? Also one of them would have to start to shoot more also

Ferretsquig
02-22-2007, 12:38 PM
That is a misnomer, that I think has been debunked this year. Kobe takes less shots than last year and his assists are up. Yes he likes to shoot, but when you are as good as he is at it, why wouldn't you? Besides, Kidd likes to defer and rack up assistns moreso than points. It would seem to work out fine.

The point being made was that Kobe likes the ball in his hands, not that he likes to shoot it. The only guards in the league that handle it more are Wade and Arenas. There are always questions as to how two players who both like the ball in their hands will manage to coexist (AI & Melo).

Chavez Ravine
02-22-2007, 12:45 PM
Wow imagine the passes you would see if Kidd and Nash were together. However i dont think that would work great, Nash can't guard a 2 guard, idk if Kidd can, and if he can could he do it for a whole game? Also one of them would have to start to shoot more also


I think it's an insurance policy if nash gets hurt.

At least that's how I view it.

NJFINSFAN1
02-23-2007, 11:07 AM
Like I said from day 1.

Rod Thorn was never making the sucker trade Mitch Kupchak made when he moved Shaquille O'Neal without getting Miami's best player in return. Kupchak gift-wrapped Pat Riley a parade, and the Lakers' general manager has been scouring the league ever since in search of a fool who mirrored the reflection in his own bathroom glass.
For some strange reason, Kupchak kept calling Thorn. He kept trying to con one of the smartest executives in the league.
Kupchak kept dialing the wrong area code.

"If I trade Jason Kidd for what the Lakers are offering," Thorn was telling people, "it would look like I was saying, 'Screw New Jersey until we get to Brooklyn.' And I'm not going to screw New Jersey."
Thorn wasn't moving Kidd for every bum on the Laker roster, no matter how much Kupchak tried talking him into it. Thorn once drafted Michael Jordan for the Bulls, but all these years later he wasn't handing Phil Jackson a Hall of Fame point guard, a playmaker who could fast-break Jackson away from his six-game losing streak, not while the Nets were busy calling a news conference to introduce Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown.

So Thorn wasn't about to turn his New Jersey track record into a two-way street. He told the Lakers he'd consider Lamar Odom for Kidd, but that Andrew Bynum, the 7-foot teenager out of St. Joseph of Metuchen, would seal the deal.
Kupchak didn't want to include either player in his offer. When the Lakers' GM made his final pre-deadline call about Kidd, Thorn told him, in effect, that it was Bynum or nothing.

It was nothing. Thorn heard from several other teams about Kidd, including one that offered what a source called "a very good young player whose name would surprise you." Thorn rejected that bid, the source said, because it came tethered to the provision that the Nets "take someone else back in the trade, a bad guy with a long-term contract."

This hour of trade-deadline inactivity was among Thorn's finest. As he was declaring Kidd the best player New Jersey has ever employed, Thorn was again proving himself to be the best executive in franchise history.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjgmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODE4OTkmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2

Samphin
02-23-2007, 11:14 AM
Like I said from day 1.

Rod Thorn was never making the sucker trade Mitch Kupchak made when he moved Shaquille O'Neal without getting Miami's best player in return. Kupchak gift-wrapped Pat Riley a parade, and the Lakers' general manager has been scouring the league ever since in search of a fool who mirrored the reflection in his own bathroom glass.
For some strange reason, Kupchak kept calling Thorn. He kept trying to con one of the smartest executives in the league.
Kupchak kept dialing the wrong area code.

"If I trade Jason Kidd for what the Lakers are offering," Thorn was telling people, "it would look like I was saying, 'Screw New Jersey until we get to Brooklyn.' And I'm not going to screw New Jersey."
Thorn wasn't moving Kidd for every bum on the Laker roster, no matter how much Kupchak tried talking him into it. Thorn once drafted Michael Jordan for the Bulls, but all these years later he wasn't handing Phil Jackson a Hall of Fame point guard, a playmaker who could fast-break Jackson away from his six-game losing streak, not while the Nets were busy calling a news conference to introduce Chris Mihm and Kwame Brown.

So Thorn wasn't about to turn his New Jersey track record into a two-way street. He told the Lakers he'd consider Lamar Odom for Kidd, but that Andrew Bynum, the 7-foot teenager out of St. Joseph of Metuchen, would seal the deal.
Kupchak didn't want to include either player in his offer. When the Lakers' GM made his final pre-deadline call about Kidd, Thorn told him, in effect, that it was Bynum or nothing.

It was nothing. Thorn heard from several other teams about Kidd, including one that offered what a source called "a very good young player whose name would surprise you." Thorn rejected that bid, the source said, because it came tethered to the provision that the Nets "take someone else back in the trade, a bad guy with a long-term contract."

This hour of trade-deadline inactivity was among Thorn's finest. As he was declaring Kidd the best player New Jersey has ever employed, Thorn was again proving himself to be the best executive in franchise history.

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjczN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkxMjgmZmdiZWw3Zjd2cWVlRUV5eTcwODE4OTkmeXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2


The funny part is, by doing this, Thorn HAS screwed New Jersey until Kidd comes off the books. They aren't going to have any room to do anything and will most likely continue to be on the outside looking in when it comes to the playoffs.

Oh well. When Radmanovich went down, I figured it helped kill the trade, same for Wade. With Wade out, New Jersey probably thinks they can creep into the 8th seed, and they might, but they aren't going to win squat and will continue to mire in medicority with high contracts that handcuff them.

phunwin
02-23-2007, 11:23 AM
The funny part is, by doing this, Thorn HAS screwed New Jersey until Kidd comes off the books. They aren't going to have any room to do anything and will most likely continue to be on the outside looking in when it comes to the playoffs.

Oh well. When Radmanovich went down, I figured it helped kill the trade, same for Wade. With Wade out, New Jersey probably thinks they can creep into the 8th seed, and they might, but they aren't going to win squat and will continue to mire in medicority with high contracts that handcuff them.

Problem is, this deal wasn't helping them THAT much with the cap. They would have gotten Kwame Brown's deal, which wouldn't come off the cap until next year. If the Nets had gotten a bunch of stuff to come off the cap after this year, it would have made more sense. As it is, they would have gotten marginal cap relief and nothing else. I don't blame the Nets for holding out for Bynum. If you're trading a Hall of Fame point guard with plenty left in the tank, you'd better get more than some distant cap relief.

Thorn played it the right way. Trading Kidd for what the Lakers were apparently offering was a sucker move; he'd have been trading a dollar for a quarter and two dimes.

NJFINSFAN1
02-23-2007, 11:37 AM
Problem is, this deal wasn't helping them THAT much with the cap. They would have gotten Kwame Brown's deal, which wouldn't come off the cap until next year. If the Nets had gotten a bunch of stuff to come off the cap after this year, it would have made more sense. As it is, they would have gotten marginal cap relief and nothing else. I don't blame the Nets for holding out for Bynum. If you're trading a Hall of Fame point guard with plenty left in the tank, you'd better get more than some distant cap relief.

Thorn played it the right way. Trading Kidd for what the Lakers were apparently offering was a sucker move; he'd have been trading a dollar for a quarter and two dimes.

Yep, totally agree 100% with the cap.

Trade for equal value or better, not scrubs.

Amars
02-23-2007, 12:16 PM
Yep, totally agree 100% with the cap.

Trade for equal value or better, not scrubs.

Doesnt happen in the nba. You trade for draft picks and young players hoping they'll be great. Like Dale Davis for a young riding the bench player Jermaine Oneal. That why they wanted Bynum. Bynum for Kidd is not a equal trade but the possibility is there. I think this trade will represent itself in the offseason again.

Enforcerfin33
02-23-2007, 12:50 PM
Doesnt happen in the nba. You trade for draft picks and young players hoping they'll be great. Like Dale Davis for a young riding the bench player Jermaine Oneal. That why they wanted Bynum. Bynum for Kidd is not a equal trade but the possibility is there. I think this trade will represent itself in the offseason again.
Your dreaming son....Big men are a hot commodity...you dont give them up for rapidly aging PG's. And Jermaine was always good, it just so happened he was behind Wallace and Kemp...

phunwin
02-23-2007, 01:24 PM
Doesnt happen in the nba. You trade for draft picks and young players hoping they'll be great. Like Dale Davis for a young riding the bench player Jermaine Oneal. That why they wanted Bynum. Bynum for Kidd is not a equal trade but the possibility is there. I think this trade will represent itself in the offseason again.

I don't. Kidd's value will only decrease with time, while Bynum's will only increase. If the Lakers wouldn't include Bynum now, when they're in the thick of a playoff race, there's no reason to believe they'll do it 6 months from now when Bynum is older, wiser and better.

Amars
02-23-2007, 02:25 PM
Your dreaming son....Big men are a hot commodity...you dont give them up for rapidly aging PG's. And Jermaine was always good, it just so happened he was behind Wallace and Kemp...

That why I said Bynum for Kidd is not a equal deal. Sincethe Lakers had serious discussion on making a trade something will happen with this roster. The Lakers I think will move Bynum in the offseason but it wont be for Kidd I think it will be for Garnett. Portland never knew Jermain Oneal was going to be that good, that why they gave him up for chump change old *** Dale Davis.

Amars
02-23-2007, 02:28 PM
I don't. Kidd's value will only decrease with time, while Bynum's will only increase. If the Lakers wouldn't include Bynum now, when they're in the thick of a playoff race, there's no reason to believe they'll do it 6 months from now when Bynum is older, wiser and better.

It will represent itself again but it wont be for bynum. Kidd is gonna get moved maybe not the lakers but there will be talk again in the offseason. NJ media is saying Thorn is the best executive in Nets history. Man the Nets are going nowhere then, I think he mess up not making a deal with any team for Kidd because his value is going to diminish quickly.

Section126
02-23-2007, 02:35 PM
That why I said Bynum for Kidd is not a equal deal. Sincethe Lakers had serious discussion on making a trade something will happen with this roster. The Lakers I think will move Bynum in the offseason but it wont be for Kidd I think it will be for Garnett. Portland never knew Jermain Oneal was going to be that good, that why they gave him up for chump change old *** Dale Davis.

HOW are you gonna pull that deal without including Odom? it doesn't work Amars.

Amars
02-23-2007, 03:35 PM
HOW are you gonna pull that deal without including Odom? it doesn't work Amars.

I hate to say this but I wouldnt oppose in packaging Odom and Bynum together. If you look at the past 3 lakers championship they had Shaq and Kobe and a bunch of shooters. Teams had to double team Shaq and Kobe which left the shooter open. I see the same thing happening with Garnett on the team. One thing the lakers have is shooters on the team.

Section126
02-23-2007, 03:55 PM
I hate to say this but I wouldnt oppose in packaging Odom and Bynum together. If you look at the past 3 lakers championship they had Shaq and Kobe and a bunch of shooters. Teams had to double team Shaq and Kobe which left the shooter open. I see the same thing happening with Garnett on the team. One thing the lakers have is shooters on the team.

I would be tempted. I agree.

NJFINSFAN1
02-23-2007, 04:09 PM
I hate to say this but I wouldnt oppose in packaging Odom and Bynum together. If you look at the past 3 lakers championship they had Shaq and Kobe and a bunch of shooters. Teams had to double team Shaq and Kobe which left the shooter open. I see the same thing happening with Garnett on the team. One thing the lakers have is shooters on the team.

You could have had Kidd for that!!:lol:

That would be a tempting deal.

Amars
02-23-2007, 04:52 PM
You could have had Kidd for that!!:lol:

That would be a tempting deal.

Nah 34yr old Kidd with 40mill over 2 years for Bynum straight up. Never will see that. Well the Nets better keep Kidd and his salary over the next 2yrs because they arent getting anything worth talking about now for him.

Jaj
02-23-2007, 09:34 PM
It has to be for Garnett.

Bynum when he doesn't foul out puts up very solid center numbers. He'll never be the best center by far, but finding a what 21 year old center in two years (when he reaches basically a gradual improvement stage) who's among the very best in the league? That's hard...

Among the guys who are pure centers right now

1- Ming
2- Duncan
3- Howard

Will likely always be better

From then on out Bynum has room to become a top 5 center. I mean he can still put on 15 lbs of muscle, improve his post moves, and help defense.

He's going to put up a good 10-11 pg without a doubt in my mind by the end of the year.

There's no reason why he can't put up 15 ppg, 9.5 rebounds, and 2 blocks per night in two years. That's VERY RARE.

As for Mihm he'll be re-signed. The Lakers will look to find a real power forward with an Odom+Brown package (take in 20-25m in contracts if need be) or a point guard.

So essentially they could take Jermaine O'Neal if he demands a trade and a high priced veteran at the same time.

NJFINSFAN1
02-23-2007, 09:47 PM
Kidd almost has a triple/double already tonight!

18 points 7 rebounds and 6 assists at the half.

Samphin
02-23-2007, 09:55 PM
Problem is, this deal wasn't helping them THAT much with the cap. They would have gotten Kwame Brown's deal, which wouldn't come off the cap until next year. If the Nets had gotten a bunch of stuff to come off the cap after this year, it would have made more sense. As it is, they would have gotten marginal cap relief and nothing else. I don't blame the Nets for holding out for Bynum. If you're trading a Hall of Fame point guard with plenty left in the tank, you'd better get more than some distant cap relief.

Thorn played it the right way. Trading Kidd for what the Lakers were apparently offering was a sucker move; he'd have been trading a dollar for a quarter and two dimes.


While Kwame's contract would still be one the books, you have to remember that he would be a valuable trading piece next year as well. Much moreso than Kidd at that point. A 25 year old center who plays fantastic defense and rebounds would fetch far more than an oft-injured aging point guard. Bigs are always going to demand more than guards if the talent level is anywhere near close. At this point, Kwame's talent is in the same ballpark as Kidd's when you factor age and impact of position.

That is why it hurts the Nets. Because when they try to trade Kidd in the offseason or at the dealdine next year, the offers they get will be even lower than what L.A. offered this time.

But that is fine. New Jersey obviously feels they have what it takes now to be competitive or to fix their roster, so more power to them.

Samphin
02-23-2007, 10:00 PM
I don't think Bynum gets traded for Garnett either. Kupchak has pretty much hitched his whole regime as GM to this kid, he won't let him go for anyone short of say, LeBron, Wade or players of that ilk. That is never going to happen so Bynum stays in L.A.

Remember, the kid is 19. He is going to put on more than 15 pounds of weight. By the time he is 21-22, I expect him to fill out even more and have even more of a presence in the paint on offense.

As for Odom, I think he will be traded. Phil Jackson has even recently stated how Odom has hurt the second unit (where hs is the only starter out there) and how he has a hard time utilizing the trianlge because he likes to drive with the ball as opposed to finding his spot and shooting (which is what the trianlge offense calls for).

All that combined with the fact that he could be so much more with another team means he will be the center of a trade package during the offseason imo.

Jaj
02-23-2007, 11:12 PM
I don't think Bynum gets traded for Garnett either. Kupchak has pretty much hitched his whole regime as GM to this kid, he won't let him go for anyone short of say, LeBron, Wade or players of that ilk. That is never going to happen so Bynum stays in L.A.

Remember, the kid is 19. He is going to put on more than 15 pounds of weight. By the time he is 21-22, I expect him to fill out even more and have even more of a presence in the paint on offense.

As for Odom, I think he will be traded. Phil Jackson has even recently stated how Odom has hurt the second unit (where hs is the only starter out there) and how he has a hard time utilizing the trianlge because he likes to drive with the ball as opposed to finding his spot and shooting (which is what the trianlge offense calls for).

All that combined with the fact that he could be so much more with another team means he will be the center of a trade package during the offseason imo.

On the Odom point I agree, however sir you are far off on the Bynum-Kupchak thing. It's Buss (Jim) that drafted Bynum and no one else. He pushed for him like crazy.

It was that Phil wants Granger- Kupchak wants May- Jim wants Bynum thing. May is the worst of the three options but he'll be a solid solid power forward so all three were good choices. Granger could have been perfect as Kobe's running mate while Bynum is worth the most.

So take your pick really...

Your right though I don't expect Bynum to be traded in fact what I expect is the Lakers will go with Odom+Brown+Cook+Evans if need be and say to a team with a top notch power forward, if you give us your guy we'll give you two expiring contracts both of them solid players, plus a shooting big man and Odom.

For example the Wolves see Garnett might bolt to the Bulls and their like ok fine let's send him to L.A. and clean up our horrendous cap situation. We can send Jaric who fits well as the second team's SF/facilitator, Mike James who fits well as a triangle point guard, and offcourse Garnett. Or maybe they'll decide Mike James can get them something else and instead they send Hassell or Blount.

I honestly don't care...

NJFINSFAN1
02-23-2007, 11:19 PM
Another triple/double for Kidd!:wink:

Enforcerfin33
02-23-2007, 11:25 PM
That why I said Bynum for Kidd is not a equal deal. Since the Lakers had serious discussion on making a trade something will happen with this roster. The Lakers I think will move Bynum in the offseason but it wont be for Kidd I think it will be for Garnett. Portland never knew Jermain Oneal was going to be that good, that why they gave him up for chump change old *** Dale Davis.
Yeh but eight years ago, Double D was still solid, and I'm tellin ya they knew what the kid was about, thats why they drafted him. The team they had then was built for win now, so they had to get players that were already developed, no project players. And dont be surprised if KG opts out of his contract next yr, but LA may not be his destination.

Amars
02-23-2007, 11:56 PM
While Kwame's contract would still be one the books, you have to remember that he would be a valuable trading piece next year as well. Much moreso than Kidd at that point. A 25 year old center who plays fantastic defense and rebounds would fetch far more than an oft-injured aging point guard. Bigs are always going to demand more than guards if the talent level is anywhere near close. At this point, Kwame's talent is in the same ballpark as Kidd's when you factor age and impact of position.

That is why it hurts the Nets. Because when they try to trade Kidd in the offseason or at the dealdine next year, the offers they get will be even lower than what L.A. offered this time.

But that is fine. New Jersey obviously feels they have what it takes now to be competitive or to fix their roster, so more power to them.

I agree that Bynum is going to be a top 5 center in the future, but Kobe and Odom cant wait for him to develop. These guys are in their prime and the Lakers have a 3-4yr window with Kobe. Kobe is 28 and a old 10yr veteran at that. Already 2 knee operation for him. A player like Kobe only comes around once for a franchise so you have to build now. The Lakers will move Bynum but it has to be the right player and Kidd is not that player. Lakers are about winning Championships NOW not the future, leave that future developing stuff for teams like the NETS.

Amars
02-24-2007, 12:15 AM
Yeh but eight years ago, Double D was still solid, and I'm tellin ya they knew what the kid was about, thats why they drafted him. The team they had then was built for win now, so they had to get players that were already developed, no project players. And dont be surprised if KG opts out of his contract next yr, but LA may not be his destination.


What are you talking about Dale Davis was a a ok player at best. He had one solid year and the Pacers took advantage of him and traded him. All he was good for is rebound and low post defense when he was at indiana. He avg less then 10ppg , 1blk/gm, >1assit/gm and this was before the trade. In return they got Oneal who sitting on the bench for 3 yrs with the blazers and now is a FRANCHISE player. Also the only person Oneal was behind on the Bench was Sabonis who suck arse. The other center was Kline who was traded with Oneal. Blazer didnt know what they had.

King Felix
02-24-2007, 03:29 AM
dale davis was an all-star the year before portland traded for him.

King Felix
02-24-2007, 03:30 AM
What are you talking about Dale Davis was a a ok player at best. He had one solid year and the Pacers took advantage of him and traded him. All he was good for is rebound and low post defense when he was at indiana. He avg less then 10ppg , 1blk/gm, >1assit/gm and this was before the trade. In return they got Oneal who sitting on the bench for 3 yrs with the blazers and now is a FRANCHISE player. Also the only person Oneal was behind on the Bench was Sabonis who suck arse. The other center was Kline who was traded with Oneal. Blazer didnt know what they had.did u just say sabonis sucked ***??? you gotta be kidding :sidelol:

portland was desperate for a big guy to try and guard shaq

Amars
02-24-2007, 03:37 AM
did u just say sabonis sucked ***??? you gotta be kidding :sidelol:

portland was desperate for a big guy to try and guard shaq

Ya Sabonis sucked. The worst footwork I have ever seen a big man have. He couldnt jump 1in. and the biggest flopper and baby I have ever seen.

ChambersWI
02-24-2007, 12:01 PM
Ya Sabonis sucked. The worst footwork I have ever seen a big man have. He couldnt jump 1in. and the biggest flopper and baby I have ever seen.

wow, you just a lot of credibilty. Sabonis is one of the greatest centers of all time he just didn't get to the NBA until later in his career.

Amars
02-24-2007, 12:11 PM
wow, you just a lot of credibilty. Sabonis is one of the greatest centers of all time he just didn't get to the NBA until later in his career.

Ya maybe in Europe but not in the NBA. Dwight Howard is putting up better number then him and do you think he gonna be one of the greatest of all time. Tell me one solid attribute that Sabonis has other then flopping.

Samphin
02-24-2007, 12:35 PM
I agree that Bynum is going to be a top 5 center in the future, but Kobe and Odom cant wait for him to develop. These guys are in their prime and the Lakers have a 3-4yr window with Kobe. Kobe is 28 and a old 10yr veteran at that. Already 2 knee operation for him. A player like Kobe only comes around once for a franchise so you have to build now. The Lakers will move Bynum but it has to be the right player and Kidd is not that player. Lakers are about winning Championships NOW not the future, leave that future developing stuff for teams like the NETS.

YOU never EVER trade big for small. Especially when the big is 19 and going to be a true top center. Those are a rarity. If they wouldn't give up Bynum for Artest or Kidd, what makes you think they give it up for Garnett either? Trust me, Bynum is going now where.

Samphin
02-24-2007, 12:42 PM
On the Odom point I agree, however sir you are far off on the Bynum-Kupchak thing. It's Buss (Jim) that drafted Bynum and no one else. He pushed for him like crazy.

It was that Phil wants Granger- Kupchak wants May- Jim wants Bynum thing. May is the worst of the three options but he'll be a solid solid power forward so all three were good choices. Granger could have been perfect as Kobe's running mate while Bynum is worth the most.

So take your pick really...

Your right though I don't expect Bynum to be traded in fact what I expect is the Lakers will go with Odom+Brown+Cook+Evans if need be and say to a team with a top notch power forward, if you give us your guy we'll give you two expiring contracts both of them solid players, plus a shooting big man and Odom.

For example the Wolves see Garnett might bolt to the Bulls and their like ok fine let's send him to L.A. and clean up our horrendous cap situation. We can send Jaric who fits well as the second team's SF/facilitator, Mike James who fits well as a triangle point guard, and offcourse Garnett. Or maybe they'll decide Mike James can get them something else and instead they send Hassell or Blount.

I honestly don't care...

I am well aware of Buss being the one who wanted Bynum. However, you fail to point out that once Kupchak saw him in action, he was sold on him as well. But, the reason I said Kupchak has hitched his legacy to the kid is this. He has been offered Artest and Kidd for him over that past few years and has stood pat on both. That shows a huge commitment to Bynum and what L.A. thinks of him as a player. That is all Kupchak.

As for the Odompoint, we are in agreement, although I don't want to see Mo Evans go anywhere. Trade Cook, trade Odom and trade Kwame if you have to, but keep Luke Walton, Mo Evans and Rony Turiaf out of any and all talks along with Kobe and Bynum.

I really think that if L.A. were to trade Odom, Kwame, Cook and say, Vujacic for Garnett, it owuld benefit both teams tremendously.

L.A. gets a veteran superstar up front in Garnett to go with Kobe an dBynum and Minnesota gets a chance to start over with younger, talented players and probably dump a bad contract or two off.

But that probably doesn't happen until next season, if at all.

Amars
02-24-2007, 12:58 PM
YOU never EVER trade big for small. Especially when the big is 19 and going to be a true top center. Those are a rarity. If they wouldn't give up Bynum for Artest or Kidd, what makes you think they give it up for Garnett either? Trust me, Bynum is going now where.

So you wait 3-4 yrs for Bynum to develop and Kobe to be at the end of his career. Are you crazy. A player like KOBE is more of a rarity then Bynum. I totally believe that Bynum will be traded but like I said before it wont be for Kidd. I see more of a possibility it will be for Garnett which will make the lakers true contender to win a championship. Garnett is one of the top fowards to play the game.

Pink_Dove
02-24-2007, 04:43 PM
Ya maybe in Europe but not in the NBA. Dwight Howard is putting up better number then him and do you think he gonna be one of the greatest of all time. Tell me one solid attribute that Sabonis has other then flopping.

I'll take these fellows opinions over yours about Sabonis.

Scottie Pippen was quoted as saying that Arvydas was "the best European basketball player to ever play the game". Ex-Spur Sean Elliott routinely claimed that Arvydas "should be in the conversation as one of the greatest centers ever". Hall of Famer Bill Walton describes "Sabas" as "the greatest passing center of all time". And Dino Radja, a former Boston Celtics player, said that Sabonis would have been an all-star "ten times over" had he played his healthy years in the States.

Samphin
02-24-2007, 06:15 PM
So you wait 3-4 yrs for Bynum to develop and Kobe to be at the end of his career. Are you crazy. A player like KOBE is more of a rarity then Bynum. I totally believe that Bynum will be traded but like I said before it wont be for Kidd. I see more of a possibility it will be for Garnett which will make the lakers true contender to win a championship. Garnett is one of the top fowards to play the game.

Not when you have the ability to do both. Dangle Odom for Garnett instead. If Minny bites, then you have Garnett, Bynum, and Kobe together.

The key is to win now and set yourself up for the future. I would be willing to bet money that Bynum own't be traded. Kareem Abdul Jabbar has been working with the kid and stated just the other day how amazed he has progressed so far. they weren't expecting what they get from him now, until two years from now. He also stated that the Lakers have assured him that Bynum is going nowhere.

NJFINSFAN1
02-24-2007, 06:21 PM
You cannot win without a powerful inside man!!! Without a powerful inside man or at least a good one, Kobe will not win another title.

That's the Nets main problem (Although I really think NK will be a good one).

Metal Panda
02-24-2007, 06:31 PM
So you wait 3-4 yrs for Bynum to develop and Kobe to be at the end of his career. Are you crazy. A player like KOBE is more of a rarity then Bynum. I totally believe that Bynum will be traded but like I said before it wont be for Kidd. I see more of a possibility it will be for Garnett which will make the lakers true contender to win a championship. Garnett is one of the top fowards to play the game.

granted Kobe has more wear than normal for a guy of his young age since he came right out of High School, but 4 years will be the end of his career? you're insane.

Amars
02-24-2007, 06:37 PM
I'll take these fellows opinions over yours about Sabonis.

Scottie Pippen was quoted as saying that Arvydas was "the best European basketball player to ever play the game". Ex-Spur Sean Elliott routinely claimed that Arvydas "should be in the conversation as one of the greatest centers ever". Hall of Famer Bill Walton describes "Sabas" as "the greatest passing center of all time". And Dino Radja, a former Boston Celtics player, said that Sabonis would have been an all-star "ten times over" had he played his healthy years in the States.

Again like I stated before he did nothing in the NBA. European career was probably great but I dont watch Euro bball. As for Pippen comment name me another euro players who was a starter beside Kukoc. He might be the only one worth talking about. Should of Would of Could of are just excuses. I could name 25 center before I would even THINK of putting Arvydas on the list as best all time NBA center.

Metal Panda
02-24-2007, 06:39 PM
I'll take these fellows opinions over yours about Sabonis.

Scottie Pippen was quoted as saying that Arvydas was "the best European basketball player to ever play the game". Ex-Spur Sean Elliott routinely claimed that Arvydas "should be in the conversation as one of the greatest centers ever". Hall of Famer Bill Walton describes "Sabas" as "the greatest passing center of all time". And Dino Radja, a former Boston Celtics player, said that Sabonis would have been an all-star "ten times over" had he played his healthy years in the States.

that was taken verbatim from Wikipedia :)

Amars
02-24-2007, 06:43 PM
that was taken verbatim from Wikipedia :)

Great Wikipedia the biggest crap out there on the net. Half the stuff people put there is bull****.

Metal Panda
02-24-2007, 06:46 PM
Great Wikipedia the biggest crap out there on the net. Half the stuff people put there is bull****.

that's not really true, nor is it why I said what I did. Just found it funny.

You can put unverified crap out on Wikipedia, but on review of the article they usually add "citation needed" and if it can't be cited, often the content is removed.

I know this because I hijacked an article on "felching" and my changes are now gone and they were written as if they were plausible.

Ferretsquig
02-24-2007, 10:14 PM
granted Kobe has more wear than normal for a guy of his young age since he came right out of High School, but 4 years will be the end of his career? you're insane.

Its a legitimate concern, especially given that there is no precident to compare this first flock of straight from high school guards to. Both TMac and Kobe have seemed to have similar wear to players several years their senior who spent time in college.

Samphin
02-24-2007, 10:46 PM
Its a legitimate concern, especially given that there is no precident to compare this first flock of straight from high school guards to. Both TMac and Kobe have seemed to have similar wear to players several years their senior who spent time in college.


Even if Kobe were to start slipping, I doubt his career would end in 4 years. He is so far ahead of everyone else that if he were to "drop" to the level that Wade, Arenas and other players of similar ilk are at now, it wouldn't be the end of the world for the Lakers. ESPECIALLY if Bynum is still surging and making strides at the center position.

Section126
02-25-2007, 03:10 AM
Even if Kobe were to start slipping, I doubt his career would end in 4 years. He is so far ahead of everyone else that if he were to "drop" to the level that Wade, Arenas and other players of similar ilk are at now, it wouldn't be the end of the world for the Lakers. ESPECIALLY if Bynum is still surging and making strides at the center position.

LOL!!!!!!!!

"Drop" to Wade's level...

I think you overestimate Kobe;s talent...

He may be the best player in the NBA...but he isn't that far ahead.

Metal Panda
02-25-2007, 11:32 AM
Its a legitimate concern, especially given that there is no precident to compare this first flock of straight from high school guards to. Both TMac and Kobe have seemed to have similar wear to players several years their senior who spent time in college.

That's true, but part of the wear and tear that a normal player incurs that causes him to bow out of the game, in addition to day-in/day-out physical activity, is Father Time. Kobe does have that working in his favor.

Of course nobody knows for sure, you're right, I just find it foolish for Amars to "assume" that he'll be on the backend of his career at that time.

If he is proven to be right, then some might wonder what the benefit of drafting someone right out of high school is if it takes them longer to develop and doesn't increase their longevity any (and with stern's rule changes I know they wouldn't go straight to the club anyway)

Metal Panda
02-25-2007, 11:33 AM
LOL!!!!!!!!

"Drop" to Wade's level...

I think you overestimate Kobe;s talent...

He may be the best player in the NBA...but he isn't that far ahead.

I don't know that Wade is necessarily worse than Kobe.

Section126
02-25-2007, 01:41 PM
I don't know that Wade is necessarily worse than Kobe.

He is.

Kobe is a better 3 pt. shooter and on the ball defender. Wade is close though...in a couple of years...Wade will be the undisputed best player in the NBA. IMO of course.

Samphin
02-25-2007, 01:43 PM
LOL!!!!!!!!

"Drop" to Wade's level...

I think you overestimate Kobe;s talent...

He may be the best player in the NBA...but he isn't that far ahead.

I knew you would chime in when I wrote that. It isn't a knock against Wade or Gilbert or anyone else at that level. All are very good and the future of the NBA (along with LeBron who is the standout player of that draft) and Anthony etc. etc.

I also wasn't inferring that Wade and Co. would stay where they are now. In fact, I am pretty sure they are going to get better. But right now, in this time and space, Kobe is the best player in the NBA by far. If, in four years he "drops" down to where Wade and Co are now (assuming Wade and Co. have continued to improve and are now the pre-eminant players in the league in their prime) it wouldn't be the end of Kobe's career. Sure, he would be on the decline, but it wouldn't be a complete disaster of one.

Amars
02-25-2007, 01:47 PM
Kobe IMO has 4 yrs a peak level left. Why the hell are we going to wait for bynum to develop when we need to take advantage now that Kobe is at the top of his game. There is no guarantee that Bynum will a great center so the lakers need to strike while the Irons Hot.

Section126
02-25-2007, 01:50 PM
I knew you would chime in when I wrote that. It isn't a knock against Wade or Gilbert or anyone else at that level. All are very good and the future of the NBA (along with LeBron who is the standout player of that draft) and Anthony etc. etc.

I also wasn't inferring that Wade and Co. would stay where they are now. In fact, I am pretty sure they are going to get better. But right now, in this time and space, Kobe is the best player in the NBA by far. If, in four years he "drops" down to where Wade and Co are now (assuming Wade and Co. have continued to improve and are now the pre-eminant players in the league in their prime) it wouldn't be the end of Kobe's career. Sure, he would be on the decline, but it wouldn't be a complete disaster of one.



"By Far"?

Dude...take off the gold and purple glasses and watch something other than the Next Lakers / Wolves matchup.

First of all..Wade is not in Gilbert's "level".

Second of all...It is Wade, Lebron and Kobe that SHARE the top level as far as talent and ability goes.

Wade will replace Kobe soon..seeing as he is already more efficient than Kobe offensively. Wade puts up better numbers defensively as well. As soon as he completes his game...goodbye Kobe.

In my top 50 players list...I have Kobe #1.....but saying he is better than Wade "By Far" is insulting to Wade and to the intelligence of the average NBA fan.

Samphin
02-25-2007, 02:03 PM
"By Far"?

Dude...take off the gold and purple glasses and watch something other than the Next Lakers / Wolves matchup.

First of all..Wade is not in Gilbert's "level".

Second of all...It is Wade, Lebron and Kobe that SHARE the top level as far as talent and ability goes.

Wade will replace Kobe soon..seeing as he is already more efficient than Kobe offensively. Wade puts up better numbers defensively as well. As soon as he completes his game...goodbye Kobe.

In my top 50 players list...I have Kobe #1.....but saying he is better than Wade "By Far" is insulting to Wade and to the intelligence of the average NBA fan.


Dude...take off the red and black glasses and watch something other than the next Heat/Nets matchup.

First of all, Wade is not in Kobe's "level".

See? I can write that too. And mine actually makes more sense. Why is it that Heat fans get so upset if someone wants to give Kobe his proper credit for being the best player in the league? It isn't like it is a lie. No one is screaming that Mark Madsen is the best. It is pretty much consensus that Kobe is by far and away, the best player in the game today. Virtually every player not named Shaq cops to it, coaches, analysts and fans all over the country think the same way. When a Laker player is getting chants of MVP by the Boston Celtics fans in Boston, it shows you what people think of Kobe.

Kobe is a better shooter, 3 point shooter, free throw shooter, defender, rebounder and so on and so forth. Wade drives to the basket more causing him to have a higher shooting %. Again, you act as if I somehow dis Wade by caling him the future as opposed to the present. I fully expect Wade to be better than Kobe in four years. As I expect a number of players to be. Once nature takes its course on Kobe and his skills start to diminish, and Wade's continue to blossom, it will happen and I will be right there to state as much.

Quit acting like I don't give Wade his props. I, along with seemingly everyone not associated with the Heat organization, happen to believe that Kobe is on another level all by himself right now.

Samphin
02-25-2007, 02:09 PM
Kobe IMO has 4 yrs a peak level left. Why the hell are we going to wait for bynum to develop when we need to take advantage now that Kobe is at the top of his game. There is no guarantee that Bynum will a great center so the lakers need to strike while the Irons Hot.

The iron isn't hot though. Bynum is progressing and a rapid pace. Players are already starting to think twice about going into the middle against him. His long arms block a lot of shots, and ones he doesn't get to, they still are altered because the player driving has to alter his shot to get it around Bynum.

Bynum goes nowhere. It isn't going to happen. Kobe understands what the plan is in L.A. They pretty consult him for every move they do (right or wrong). He knows what Bynum brings to their team and he knows what would be missing if you traded him for say, Garnett. Odom is the moveable piece. Kwame is the moveable piece. Bynum is going to be the future of this team for a long time.

Amars
02-25-2007, 02:30 PM
The iron isn't hot though. Bynum is progressing and a rapid pace. Players are already starting to think twice about going into the middle against him. His long arms block a lot of shots, and ones he doesn't get to, they still are altered because the player driving has to alter his shot to get it around Bynum.

Bynum goes nowhere. It isn't going to happen. Kobe understands what the plan is in L.A. They pretty consult him for every move they do (right or wrong). He knows what Bynum brings to their team and he knows what would be missing if you traded him for say, Garnett. Odom is the moveable piece. Kwame is the moveable piece. Bynum is going to be the future of this team for a long time.

We are getting killed in the paint. We have no defensive presence down there that why we are losing so much. Everyone and I mean Everyone is driving to the rim. Bynum has major upside no doubt but right now he cant push people out of the paint. Yes he get 2 blocks a game and has long arms for Rebounds but he need to get more aggressive. Once you see Kwame come back you'll see the difference. He may not score alot but he's one of the strongest Center in the league and pushes everyone out of the paint. IMO if Garnett is on the table and Bynum is the biggest obstacle watch for him to get moved. Garnett is those once in a lifetime players.

In regard to Wade and Kobe comparison. I think its only fair to compare after Shaq is gone because then the pressure will be soley on Wade like it is on Kobe now. Right now Kobe #1 until Wade proves otherwise without shaq.

Section126
02-25-2007, 02:48 PM
Samphin....

You are missing the point. I made a list of the top 50 players int he NBA. I have had Kobe at #1 since the beginning...I consider him the best player in the NBA.

Now..Having said that, Wade is not that far away.

You are just wrong with some of your assertions. Wade is a better mid range jump shooter than Kobe.

UCFinfan86
02-25-2007, 02:56 PM
Kobe is the best player in the league, but by far?

I knew heat fans were really biased, but i didn't know Lakers fans were worse

Amars
02-25-2007, 04:00 PM
Samphin....

You are missing the point. I made a list of the top 50 players int he NBA. I have had Kobe at #1 since the beginning...I consider him the best player in the NBA.

Now..Having said that, Wade is not that far away.

You are just wrong with some of your assertions. Wade is a better mid range jump shooter than Kobe.


Whoa Whoa Whoa no way Wade is better then Kobe at the mid range shot. Especially with a defender in his face.

Anyways Samphin would you not deal Bynum for Garnett knowing that 1. Kobe is in his prime at 28 and a old veteran at that 2. The Greatest coach ever in the NBA only has a couple years left 3.There is no guarantee that Bynum will be great, its kinda like Lamar Odom he has the potential to be great but he's not and we keep waiting. Ive been waiting for lamar to great and consistent since he was on the Clippers.

Section126
02-25-2007, 04:06 PM
Whoa Whoa Whoa no way Wade is better then Kobe at the mid range shot. Especially with a defender in his face.

Anyways Samphin would you not deal Bynum for Garnett knowing that 1. Kobe is in his prime at 28 and a old veteran at that 2. The Greatest coach ever in the NBA only has a couple years left 3.There is no guarantee that Bynum will be great, its kinda like Lamar Odom he has the potential to be great but he's not and we keep waiting. Ive been waiting for lamar to great and consistent since he was on the Clippers.



Do some research on it. You will be surprised by how high a FG% Wade has in his midrange game.

I am just telling you what the numbers say.

UCFinfan86
02-25-2007, 05:41 PM
Kobe might have a better 3pt shot and is a better defender, but who is the better passer and teammate? Wade plays within the team, Kobe is just now learning to pass the ball.

FinsNYanksFan13
02-25-2007, 05:59 PM
Whoa Whoa Whoa no way Wade is better then Kobe at the mid range shot. Especially with a defender in his face.

Anyways Samphin would you not deal Bynum for Garnett knowing that 1. Kobe is in his prime at 28 and a old veteran at that 2. The Greatest coach ever in the NBA only has a couple years left 3.There is no guarantee that Bynum will be great, its kinda like Lamar Odom he has the potential to be great but he's not and we keep waiting. Ive been waiting for lamar to great and consistent since he was on the Clippers.



I would deal Bynum and Odom for Garnett in a heartbeat for all the reasons you just stated. Imagine what Phil would do with Garnett and Kobe together! I know a lot of people are big on the future and rightfully so, but I think if you have a chance to get a ring within the next 3 years (and the Lakers will with Kobe and Garnett), you do it and worry about the future in the future. Lamar is never going to be great. He may be very good but he will never be Garnett great and I think the Lakers should be one of the teams to look hard at a deal for him. He's got plenty of real productive years left in him and think about how rejuvinated he will be playing for a team he knows has a chance at a ring. It's a scary thought. I know it's tough to give up a 19 year old 7 footer who's sky is the limit but I'm rolling the dice on this once and doing the deal if I am the Lakers. I'm not going to argue back and fourth with people on this because I understand their argument and respect it tremendously, but if I'm Phil and Lakers management, I'm making this deal happen, even if I have to add a draft pick too!

NJFINSFAN1
02-28-2007, 09:01 AM
Well, I don't know about all the Laker talk, but here come the Nets. Kidd is on fire , Nachbar is scoring and rebounding, Carter is on fire and Jeffereson should be back at the end of the 10 game road trip.