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View Full Version : My offseason plan, criticism welcome



PhinfanUK
02-19-2007, 11:13 AM
I see us focusing on offense in free-agency and there are two players I want us to put money up for.

Kris Dielman is one of the best guards in the league and played under Coach Cameron in college as well as in the pros. Along with the miami weather this might help us get him here for cheaper than other teams although I wouldn't expect that to be a huge factor. I like him over Eric Steinbach because he is the better run blocker and I believe our offense will be based around Ronnie Brown (and hopefully Ricky Williams) next season. I also get the feeling he will be cheaper than Steinbach because some teams may be expecting the former Bengal to play LT as well as guard.

I also would like us to try and attract Donte Stallworth to play opposite Marty Booker. If we got Stallworth we wouldn't re-sign Welker and would shift Chambers to the slot. Down the line Booker would be replaced by Hagan.

I usually don't agree with spending a lot of money in free agency but both of these guys are still young and would represent long term investment for this team.

Miami doesn't have a lot of money to spend this year however, and both guys will be in huge demand by teams with a lot of money to spend and lots of holes to fill. I fully expect New England to make a run at Stallworth as well as San Fran, while pretty much every team in the league with cash will be interested in Dielman.
Assuming we can bring both of these guys in however, here is my draft:
Round One
I don't see Brady Quinn falling to our position, but even if he does I'm not ready to give up on Culpepper yet. We gave up too much to get him and I watched the Pittsburgh and Buffalo games again a couple of days ago. Now that my emotion over losing those games has gone I can see that he didn't play that badly and did some really nice things that I haven't seen from a Miami Quarterback for a loooong time.

Having said that, I have seen a mock draft that has the Raiders taking Quinn and JaMarcus Russell falling to us at 9. Since Russell is the closest thing to Daunte Culpepper in football I would take him immediately to learn behind Daunte meaning we could be set at QB for the next 12 years assuming he pans out.

I see neither scenario playing out however so with our first rounder I take Levi Brown. I believe with Houck coaching him the Penn State tackle could be the answer to our prayers in regard to protecting Culpepper.

Round Two
With our second rounder I take Ryan Kalil the USC center if he's still available. He's an intelligent player and uses his brains to make up for physical deficiencies. Kalil can captain our line for the rest of his career.

Round Three and beyond
It's hard to predict who will still be available in round three but I believe this is where we should pick up a line backer or a defensive end that can possibly make the transition to OLB or perhaps a QB for Cameron to play with.
I don't know much about the second tier QB prospects in this draft but I like the look of Drew Stanton if he's available or Tyler Palko from Pittsburgh (although he may be better as a late round pick.) I also would like us to take a late gamble on Chris Leak or Drew Tate from Iowa even just as camp fodder.
I also like the look of Nick Folk the Arizona kicker because of his leg strength on kickoffs. If we let Mare go and pick up a guy to tackle field goals (don't know who is available in free agency) we could toy with the idea of keeping Folk on the roster to replace Mare's kickoff productivity.

Our starting offense for next year would then be:

QB: Culpepper
HB: Ronnie Brown, Ricky
WR1: Donte Stallworth
WR2: Marty Booker
WR3: Chris Chambers
TE: Randy McMike

LT: Levi Brown
LG: Kris Dielman
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Rex Hadnot
RT: Vernon Carey

Thanks for reading, any opinions are welcome.

jim1
02-19-2007, 11:22 AM
I see us focusing on offense in free-agency and there are two players I want us to put money up for.

Kris Dielman is one of the best guards in the league and played under Coach Cameron in college as well as in the pros. Along with the miami weather this might help us get him here for cheaper than other teams although I wouldn't expect that to be a huge factor. I like him over Eric Steinbach because he is the better run blocker and I believe our offense will be based around Ronnie Brown (and hopefully Ricky Williams) next season. I also get the feeling he will be cheaper than Steinbach because some teams may be expecting the former Bengal to play LT as well as guard.

I also would like us to try and attract Donte Stallworth to play opposite Marty Booker. If we got Stallworth we wouldn't re-sign Welker and would shift Chambers to the slot. Down the line Booker would be replaced by Hagan.

I usually don't agree with spending a lot of money in free agency but both of these guys are still young and would represent long term investment for this team.

Miami doesn't have a lot of money to spend this year however, and both guys will be in huge demand by teams with a lot of money to spend and lots of holes to fill. I fully expect New England to make a run at Stallworth as well as San Fran, while pretty much every team in the league with cash will be interested in Dielman.
Assuming we can bring both of these guys in however, here is my draft:
Round One
I don't see Brady Quinn falling to our position, but even if he does I'm not ready to give up on Culpepper yet. We gave up too much to get him and I watched the Pittsburgh and Buffalo games again a couple of days ago. Now that my emotion over losing those games has gone I can see that he didn't play that badly and did some really nice things that I haven't seen from a Miami Quarterback for a loooong time.

Having said that, I have seen a mock draft that has the Raiders taking Quinn and JaMarcus Russell falling to us at 9. Since Russell is the closest thing to Daunte Culpepper in football I would take him immediately to learn behind Daunte meaning we could be set at QB for the next 12 years assuming he pans out.

I see neither scenario playing out however so with our first rounder I take Levi Brown. I believe with Houck coaching him the Penn State tackle could be the answer to our prayers in regard to protecting Culpepper.

Round Two
With our second rounder I take Ryan Kalil the USC center if he's still available. He's an intelligent player and uses his brains to make up for physical deficiencies. Kalil can captain our line for the rest of his career.

Round Three and beyond
It's hard to predict who will still be available in round three but I believe this is where we should pick up a line backer or a defensive end that can possibly make the transition to OLB or perhaps a QB for Cameron to play with.
I don't know much about the second tier QB prospects in this draft but I like the look of Drew Stanton if he's available or Tyler Palko from Pittsburgh (although he may be better as a late round pick.) I also would like us to take a late gamble on Chris Leak or Drew Tate from Iowa even just as camp fodder.
I also like the look of Nick Folk the Arizona kicker because of his leg strength on kickoffs. If we let Mare go and pick up a guy to tackle field goals (don't know who is available in free agency) we could toy with the idea of keeping Folk on the roster to replace Mare's kickoff productivity.

Our starting offense for next year would then be:

QB: Culpepper
HB: Ronnie Brown, Ricky
WR1: Donte Stallworth
WR2: Marty Booker
WR3: Chris Chambers
TE: Randy McMike

LT: Levi Brown
LG: Kris Dielman
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Rex Hadnot
RT: Vernon Carey

Thanks for reading, any opinions are welcome.

I think that you started out very well. But the QB's in the third round and afterward- Stanton, boom or bust, maybe a tease. Leak, no thanks, wouldn't even spend a 7th on him, Cleo Lemon WAY better. Drew Tate- yuk. I wouldn't even consider blowing a draft pick on that stiff. No size, no arm. Interms of a 3rd round QB, I'd go with Trent Edwards. I'd still like to see a Brian Smith, Marcus Thomas, Sidney Rice, Dan Mozes or Kyle Young if we don't get Kalil. (3rd round or later for Mozes, Young, and Thomas, but Thomas is pretty darned good.). Maybe Greg Olsen. Kalil would be fine in the 2nd round, but if we don't land him we better hit big with that pick. maybe Joe Staley, maybe Doug Free with the 3rd.

Disgustipate
02-19-2007, 11:26 AM
Paying Stallworth big money to come in, and continuing to pay Chambers that kind of money to be #3 is not worth it. McMichael is probabaly going to end up seeing the balls thrown to him that a normal #1 WR would, and an increased emphasis on running the ball is going to make it less worthwhile

Team needs a fullback. I-Formation is a huge part of what Cameron does.

I dont really like drafting Ryan Kalil. He's kind of pidgeonholed in playing for teams that run smaller zone-blocking lines like Denver/Green Bay. I'm not a big fan of the concept of using a 283 pound Center when we've got two division rivals who are going to nose tackles over him.

PhinfanUK
02-19-2007, 11:27 AM
I think that you started out very well. But the QB's in the third round and afterward- Stanton, boom or bust, maybe a tease. Leak, no thanks, wouldn't even spend a 7th on him, Cleo Lemon WAY better. Drew Tate- yuk. I wouldn't even consider blowing a draft pick on that stiff. No size, no arm. I'd still like to see a Brian Smith, Marcus Thomas, Sidney Rice, Dan Mozes or Kyle Young if we don't get Kalil. maybe Greg Olsen. Kalil would be fine in the 2nd round, but if we don't land him we better hit big with that pick. maybe Joe Staley, maybe Doug Free with the 3rd.

I like both Joe Staley and Doug Free, they both have a lot of upside but I see Levi Brown as pretty much a sure thing at left tackle. He'll at least be solid if not spectacular and is a beast in the run game. A few years down the line I think Brown could perhaps be a pro bowl lineman, especially if we surround him with some decent talent.

@@@
02-19-2007, 11:33 AM
I could certainly live with that offseason bu there are some flaws

1. Stallworth can't stay healthy. I like what he brings to the table and providing he can be had for a fair price i'd like him because of his ability to play flanker allowing chambers to move to the slot but he has always failed to stay healthy which has to be a concern

2. Dielman wants big bucks. I recall reading he wants Hutch type money whoch would instantly put him out of our reach

3. Kalil. I like the Levi Brown pick (infact i like alot of guys around our pick) but i would be concerned about Kalil's lack of size as disgustipate mentioned.

On the whole pretty good though and i certainly wouldnt be unhappy going into next season like that

PhinfanUK
02-19-2007, 11:33 AM
Paying Stallworth big money to come in, and continuing to pay Chambers that kind of money to be #3 is not worth it. McMichael is probabaly going to end up seeing the balls thrown to him that a normal #1 WR would, and an increased emphasis on running the ball is going to make it less worthwhile

Team needs a fullback. I-Formation is a huge part of what Cameron does.

I dont really like drafting Ryan Kalil. He's kind of pidgeonholed in playing for teams that run smaller zone-blocking lines like Denver/Green Bay. I'm not a big fan of the concept of using a 283 pound Center when we've got two division rivals who are going to nose tackles over him.

Kalil would need to bulk up, but pretty much everybody does once they get together with an NFL conditioner. I don't want to see Hadnot at center for another season, I think he was much more impressive at guard.

In response to the money that we would be paying Chambers to be a slot reciever, if we move him around and get him the ball as much as possible then his productivity should match the money he is making. I would target Chambers the most in the passing game with Stallworth getting a few shots at deep balls in each game. I would expect Booker's production to drop off.

As for the fullback, we don't have a Lorenzo Neal on our roster and I dont see one in the draft. Is Kyle Eckel the answer? I don't think anyone knows at this point.

jim1
02-19-2007, 11:48 AM
I like both Joe Staley and Doug Free, they both have a lot of upside but I see Levi Brown as pretty much a sure thing at left tackle. He'll at least be solid if not spectacular and is a beast in the run game. A few years down the line I think Brown could perhaps be a pro bowl lineman, especially if we surround him with some decent talent.

What picks are more controversial than Levi Brown, Ted Ginn, and Brady Quinn? Isn't there an element of "prove it" to almost all left tackles coming out of college into the pros? I've never see feet like D'Brickashaw Fergusun, and he still had problems at the next level. What do you do with Brown if he can't handle LT? We don't need a RT, props to Vernon Carey.

That being said, Brown would at least seem like a solid selection. Does anyone out there have any ideas regarding:

1) Alabi- what's up with him, is he a viable, solid option at LT as Saban eluded to?

2) Fonoti- is he ready to kick some butt at guard next year?

3) Toledo- is he going to contribute and at least threaten to start next year?

4) Hadnot- is he the real deal at center, or should he be moved back to guard, and go with McKinney and draft Kalil/Mozes/Young?

brutalbassman
02-19-2007, 11:48 AM
I like the Levi Brown, and really, I like the Kalil pick too. But I think we have too many needs to spend our top two picks on the O-line.

If anything, I'd like to pick up Brown in the first, and in the 2nd take a OLB, since they seem to be sliding and we should be able to get a pretty good player there.

rafael
02-19-2007, 11:56 AM
I like the plan, but there are a couple of things I would change. I wouldn't target Stallworth. He's unreliable and wouldn't raise our receiving production much. Certainly not considering his likely cost. As the #1 FA wr (weak year for wrs) in a year with lots cap dollars available he will land a huge contract from somebody. If we were to spend that much I'd rather go after Adalius Thomas.

I also don't like the idea of drafting a QB at #9. I think Brown is the right choice.

I'm also really hoping that Kalil makes it to our 2nd rd pick b/c he's my favorite option at that spot.

CitizenSnips
02-19-2007, 12:00 PM
I'm not sold on Stallworth. I dont feel he's done anything in this league to merit being considered a #1. I still look at him as a #3 at best. His huge injury problems aside, hes not a very good route runner. He doesn't go over the middle, and he's a very small unphysical receiver. All Stallworth is really good at is running as fast as he can (And i will give him this, he is QUITE fast) passed the defender. If Stallworth can't get behind the defender, he usually doesn't fair too well.

PhinfanUK
02-19-2007, 12:02 PM
I like the Levi Brown, and really, I like the Kalil pick too. But I think we have too many needs to spend our top two picks on the O-line.

If anything, I'd like to pick up Brown in the first, and in the 2nd take a OLB, since they seem to be sliding and we should be able to get a pretty good player there.

Who would you suggest at OLB? A few weeks ago there was talk of Puz slipping to the second but I don't see that happening in any situation. I think Levi Brown is the safest pick that still represents value at our position although I'd kinda like to take a flier on Reggie Nelson to pair with Jason Allen at safety. That all depends on Yeremiah Bell's role next season however.

PhinfanUK
02-19-2007, 12:07 PM
I'm not sold on Stallworth. I dont feel he's done anything in this league to merit being considered a #1. I still look at him as a #3 at best. His huge injury problems aside, hes not a very good route runner. He doesn't go over the middle, and he's a very small unphysical receiver. All Stallworth is really good at is running as fast as he can (And i will give him this, he is QUITE fast) passed the defender. If Stallworth can't get behind the defender, he usually doesn't fair too well.

Quite fast? Stallworth is lightning. As far as his "huge" injury problems, I don't know where that common misconception comes from. He has had trouble with injuries, but they have been nothing serious nor have they been as regular as people believe. He has missed 12 games in 5 seasons, while that isn't great it isn't a huge issue either. Some people refer to the guy as if he's David Boston.

mia4ever
02-19-2007, 12:17 PM
Paying Stallworth big money to come in, and continuing to pay Chambers that kind of money to be #3 is not worth it. McMichael is probabaly going to end up seeing the balls thrown to him that a normal #1 WR would, and an increased emphasis on running the ball is going to make it less worthwhile

Team needs a fullback. I-Formation is a huge part of what Cameron does.

I dont really like drafting Ryan Kalil. He's kind of pidgeonholed in playing for teams that run smaller zone-blocking lines like Denver/Green Bay. I'm not a big fan of the concept of using a 283 pound Center when we've got two division rivals who are going to nose tackles over him.

Damn there's someone with real Football Knowledge

vmarcilfan75
02-19-2007, 12:50 PM
im in a mock draft and i picked Brown/Kalil with my 1st 2 picks :D
not sure which way i'll go in the 3rd round though

Finfan53
02-19-2007, 12:52 PM
Hmmmm?.....My offseason plan was to lose the weight I put on snacking too much while watching so many college and NFL games last football season

BlueFin
02-19-2007, 01:02 PM
I see us focusing on offense in free-agency and there are two players I want us to put money up for.

Kris Dielman is one of the best guards in the league and played under Coach Cameron in college as well as in the pros. Along with the miami weather this might help us get him here for cheaper than other teams although I wouldn't expect that to be a huge factor. I like him over Eric Steinbach because he is the better run blocker and I believe our offense will be based around Ronnie Brown (and hopefully Ricky Williams) next season. I also get the feeling he will be cheaper than Steinbach because some teams may be expecting the former Bengal to play LT as well as guard.

I also would like us to try and attract Donte Stallworth to play opposite Marty Booker. If we got Stallworth we wouldn't re-sign Welker and would shift Chambers to the slot. Down the line Booker would be replaced by Hagan.

I usually don't agree with spending a lot of money in free agency but both of these guys are still young and would represent long term investment for this team.

Miami doesn't have a lot of money to spend this year however, and both guys will be in huge demand by teams with a lot of money to spend and lots of holes to fill. I fully expect New England to make a run at Stallworth as well as San Fran, while pretty much every team in the league with cash will be interested in Dielman.
Assuming we can bring both of these guys in however, here is my draft:
Round One
I don't see Brady Quinn falling to our position, but even if he does I'm not ready to give up on Culpepper yet. We gave up too much to get him and I watched the Pittsburgh and Buffalo games again a couple of days ago. Now that my emotion over losing those games has gone I can see that he didn't play that badly and did some really nice things that I haven't seen from a Miami Quarterback for a loooong time.

Having said that, I have seen a mock draft that has the Raiders taking Quinn and JaMarcus Russell falling to us at 9. Since Russell is the closest thing to Daunte Culpepper in football I would take him immediately to learn behind Daunte meaning we could be set at QB for the next 12 years assuming he pans out.

I see neither scenario playing out however so with our first rounder I take Levi Brown. I believe with Houck coaching him the Penn State tackle could be the answer to our prayers in regard to protecting Culpepper.

Round Two
With our second rounder I take Ryan Kalil the USC center if he's still available. He's an intelligent player and uses his brains to make up for physical deficiencies. Kalil can captain our line for the rest of his career.

Round Three and beyond
It's hard to predict who will still be available in round three but I believe this is where we should pick up a line backer or a defensive end that can possibly make the transition to OLB or perhaps a QB for Cameron to play with.
I don't know much about the second tier QB prospects in this draft but I like the look of Drew Stanton if he's available or Tyler Palko from Pittsburgh (although he may be better as a late round pick.) I also would like us to take a late gamble on Chris Leak or Drew Tate from Iowa even just as camp fodder.
I also like the look of Nick Folk the Arizona kicker because of his leg strength on kickoffs. If we let Mare go and pick up a guy to tackle field goals (don't know who is available in free agency) we could toy with the idea of keeping Folk on the roster to replace Mare's kickoff productivity.

Our starting offense for next year would then be:

QB: Culpepper
HB: Ronnie Brown, Ricky
WR1: Donte Stallworth
WR2: Marty Booker
WR3: Chris Chambers
TE: Randy McMike

LT: Levi Brown
LG: Kris Dielman
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Rex Hadnot
RT: Vernon Carey

Thanks for reading, any opinions are welcome.

I'm not in love with your vision, I question whether Levi Brown will be a value at the 9th pick, if we trade down it would be ok though.

Kalil is actually supposedly pushing 300 pounds now, that would be a wise pick.

I don't like injury prone players, Stallworth seems to fall into that category.

Dielman will cost too much money for a guard.

Regarding the QB position, more than any other position, this position is not all about physical ability, the most important component that must be there is the ability to read defenses and overall mental ability to manage the game. This is the biggest question many have on Culpepper, I have not seen enough from Jamarcus Russell to make him a top ten pick, physical ability without the mental part is simply wasted in a QB.

CitizenSnips
02-19-2007, 01:03 PM
Quite fast? Stallworth is lightning. As far as his "huge" injury problems, I don't know where that common misconception comes from. He has had trouble with injuries, but they have been nothing serious nor have they been as regular as people believe. He has missed 12 games in 5 seasons, while that isn't great it isn't a huge issue either. Some people refer to the guy as if he's David Boston.
Oh i know hes fast. But lets look at it like this, i know he was pretty healthy in New Orleans, but he wasn't very productive. And then with the eagles he was very productive but he wasnt healthy. If he wants to come miami, by all means i'll accept him with open arms, But i wouldn't bank on him changing things here.

ckparrothead
02-19-2007, 01:08 PM
I see us focusing on offense in free-agency and there are two players I want us to put money up for.

Kris Dielman is one of the best guards in the league and played under Coach Cameron in college as well as in the pros. Along with the miami weather this might help us get him here for cheaper than other teams although I wouldn't expect that to be a huge factor. I like him over Eric Steinbach because he is the better run blocker and I believe our offense will be based around Ronnie Brown (and hopefully Ricky Williams) next season. I also get the feeling he will be cheaper than Steinbach because some teams may be expecting the former Bengal to play LT as well as guard.

I also would like us to try and attract Donte Stallworth to play opposite Marty Booker. If we got Stallworth we wouldn't re-sign Welker and would shift Chambers to the slot. Down the line Booker would be replaced by Hagan.

I usually don't agree with spending a lot of money in free agency but both of these guys are still young and would represent long term investment for this team.

Miami doesn't have a lot of money to spend this year however, and both guys will be in huge demand by teams with a lot of money to spend and lots of holes to fill. I fully expect New England to make a run at Stallworth as well as San Fran, while pretty much every team in the league with cash will be interested in Dielman.
Assuming we can bring both of these guys in however, here is my draft:
Round One
I don't see Brady Quinn falling to our position, but even if he does I'm not ready to give up on Culpepper yet. We gave up too much to get him and I watched the Pittsburgh and Buffalo games again a couple of days ago. Now that my emotion over losing those games has gone I can see that he didn't play that badly and did some really nice things that I haven't seen from a Miami Quarterback for a loooong time.

Having said that, I have seen a mock draft that has the Raiders taking Quinn and JaMarcus Russell falling to us at 9. Since Russell is the closest thing to Daunte Culpepper in football I would take him immediately to learn behind Daunte meaning we could be set at QB for the next 12 years assuming he pans out.

I see neither scenario playing out however so with our first rounder I take Levi Brown. I believe with Houck coaching him the Penn State tackle could be the answer to our prayers in regard to protecting Culpepper.

Round Two
With our second rounder I take Ryan Kalil the USC center if he's still available. He's an intelligent player and uses his brains to make up for physical deficiencies. Kalil can captain our line for the rest of his career.

Round Three and beyond
It's hard to predict who will still be available in round three but I believe this is where we should pick up a line backer or a defensive end that can possibly make the transition to OLB or perhaps a QB for Cameron to play with.
I don't know much about the second tier QB prospects in this draft but I like the look of Drew Stanton if he's available or Tyler Palko from Pittsburgh (although he may be better as a late round pick.) I also would like us to take a late gamble on Chris Leak or Drew Tate from Iowa even just as camp fodder.
I also like the look of Nick Folk the Arizona kicker because of his leg strength on kickoffs. If we let Mare go and pick up a guy to tackle field goals (don't know who is available in free agency) we could toy with the idea of keeping Folk on the roster to replace Mare's kickoff productivity.

Our starting offense for next year would then be:

QB: Culpepper
HB: Ronnie Brown, Ricky
WR1: Donte Stallworth
WR2: Marty Booker
WR3: Chris Chambers
TE: Randy McMike

LT: Levi Brown
LG: Kris Dielman
C: Ryan Kalil
RG: Rex Hadnot
RT: Vernon Carey

Thanks for reading, any opinions are welcome.

Good job putting in the work and thinking this through. Here are a few of my initial reactions.

1. I like your restraint. Some may call it a lack of creativity and there may be something to that, but on the other hand you didn't go wild talking about pulling in this guy and that guy in free agency. We're not in the best cap shape and we're certainly not in the worst either.

2. Kris Dielman to Miami, I'm putting at a 90% near-certainty right now. The only reason he wouldn't end up here would be if Tomlinson stepped in and convinced him to keep what they have going together.

3. Donte Stallworth I have taken to calling an "elephant" free agent...as in he's the elephant in the room everyone knows is there without looking at him. Randy Mueller drafted Donte Stallworth, Randy Mueller still likes him, and Randy Mueller keeps chirping about adding speed at WR. Stallworth is already talking about Miami as if we've already been in contact with each other (which we very well may have been). However, there is one factor I think people are not necessarily taking account of with him and that would be a natural desire to start. He was a starter in New Orleans, he went to Philly where he started when healthy and did remarkably well. Would Miami be able to sell him on the idea of coming here and being a #3 on a team that focuses on running the ball, and has a good TE? He would probably come in on 3-WR sets, taking up the flanker position while hopefully, as you said, Chambers moves to the slot. Is that enough action to make him happy? Is that enough action to even make his contract worth it?

4. You mentioned not re-signing Welker. While it is a possibility, it would be tough to swallow it happening that way. My guess is he gets tendered, and then we attempt to field a few offers for him in trade. I'm also guessing we take a couple of phone calls and see what we can get for Chambers, in order to justify Stallworth's addition.

5. I don't see drafting Brady Quinn as "giving up" on Culpepper. Everyone that knows me, knows I've been beating Daunte's drum since well before the trade happened. I appreciate him as a very high character person, I appreciate him as an extremely high talent player. However, fit now becomes an issue with a new offense coming in (and was an unexpectedly bad issue with Mike Mularkey attempting to call Scott Linehan's offense). But also, opportunity is opportunity. If Brady Quinn falls to #9, I'm convinced it is not because of valid or significant reasons. The simple factor of age makes Quinn a better fit for Cameron than Culpepper. As much as I like Culpepper, he's not going to be as malleable as any rookie would be in terms of having Cameron teach him to be the kind of QB Cameron wants him to be. I also think that Brady Quinn has a little bit of that make the right play at the right moment thing going for him. But either way, if we draft Brady Quinn, Daunte still has two years to take hold of this team and perform. When trading for a guy or signing him in free agency, I almost never think beyond 3 years. I've found it to be a good discipline. One of those three years is gone for Daunte. He had the opportunity to take the bull by the horns and if he'd been performing like Daunte is capable of performing, then let's face it Nick probably never would have shoved him back to rehab. Even with Brady Quinn here, Daunte would get his opportunity to complete that three-year window by performing well in 2007 and 2008...and then we'd have a pretty nice dilemma on our hands. We could continue to ride Daunte, or we could go with Quinn...but either one would be a highly tradeable asset. In other words, I see very, very limited position-based downside to taking Brady Quinn. Therefore, your downside is limited to prospect-based downside...in other words how confident are you that Brady Quinn will become a great player vs. how confident are you that someone else (Ted Ginn Jr., Gaines Adams, Alan Branch, Adam Carriker, Levi Brown, etc.) will become a great player. Right now I have to say it's Quinn...I'm more confident in Quinn than all of the above players.

6. I don't see the logic in taking Jamarcus Russell at #9. You just got done saying you're not willing to take Brady Quinn because you don't want to give up on Daunte Culpepper, and then you say you'd take Russell to learn behind Culpepper. IMO, this represents faulty reasoning on your part. Why would one player be "giving up on" Culpepper while the other would not be? If you're willing to take a QB here at #9, it is IMO because there are valid questions as to Culpepper's fit for this offense. So why take a player just like the player whose fit you question for this offense?

7. Tyler Palko will be lucky to be drafted at all. He's in boat with Drew Tate and Chris Leak as far as that goes. You're right though, we could easily take a look at one of them to be training camp fodder...but most likely, as UDFAs.

PhinfanUK
02-19-2007, 02:00 PM
6. I don't see the logic in taking Jamarcus Russell at #9. You just got done saying you're not willing to take Brady Quinn because you don't want to give up on Daunte Culpepper, and then you say you'd take Russell to learn behind Culpepper. IMO, this represents faulty reasoning on your part. Why would one player be "giving up on" Culpepper while the other would not be? If you're willing to take a QB here at #9, it is IMO because there are valid questions as to Culpepper's fit for this offense. So why take a player just like the player whose fit you question for this offense?



Thanks for the response. My logic in taking Russell is that he is very similar to Culpepper and him stepping in or taking over from Daunte wouldn't represent that much of a change for the offense. In a way it would be like having Daunte now and for the next ten years although I realise it isn't that simple. The reason I would see the Quinn pick as giving up on Culpepper is because they are so different in the way they play.

I like Palko because he has some decent measurables, not sure why I like Tate but he seems like the kind of guy that we could send to Europe for a couple of seasons then could come and challenge once Culpepper retires. I don't expect him or Leak to get drafted but I can see someone giving Palko a shot in the fifth or sixth.

Vendigo
02-19-2007, 02:13 PM
Thanks for the response. My logic in taking Russell is that he is very similar to Culpepper and him stepping in or taking over from Daunte wouldn't represent that much of a change for the offense. In a way it would be like having Daunte now and for the next ten years although I realise it isn't that simple. The reason I would see the Quinn pick as giving up on Culpepper is because they are so different in the way they play.

I see your point (although I don't share it), but I sincerely doubt that any NFL team would base their draft day decision on such a factor. The whole mentor/protegee angle usually gets blown out of proportion by fans and the media. When it comes to deciding who to draft, a sensible NFL team would look at a lot of other factors first. Basically, if it came down to two players rating the same on the draft board, that issue might become a factor. Otherwise, it doesn't matter a lot really.


I don't expect him or Leak to get drafted but I can see someone giving Palko a shot in the fifth or sixth.

I can imagine someone giving Leak a shot in that range but not Palko. He looked pretty much horrible during the Senior Bowl week. Leak did, too, but at least he got a national title (and had a pretty decent game there). Palko on the other hand doesn't seem to have any upside at all. I'd be surprised to see him get drafted.

Mike13
02-19-2007, 02:32 PM
The only reason he wouldn't end up here would be if Tomlinson stepped in and convinced him to keep what they have going together.


Well when you put it like that, it makes it sound like they're married or something.

Anyway I assume you would want Chambers to take a pay cut if you're demoting him to our No.3 WR. I think Stallworth would not be a bad pick up.

I like that you adressed our needs at OL. I can see us getting Kalil and Dielman. Who knows if we can get Levi Brown or not.


5. I don't see drafting Brady Quinn as "giving up" on Culpepper. Everyone that knows me, knows I've been beating Daunte's drum since well before the trade happened. I appreciate him as a very high character person, I appreciate him as an extremely high talent player. However, fit now becomes an issue with a new offense coming in (and was an unexpectedly bad issue with Mike Mularkey attempting to call Scott Linehan's offense). But also, opportunity is opportunity. If Brady Quinn falls to #9, I'm convinced it is not because of valid or significant reasons. The simple factor of age makes Quinn a better fit for Cameron than Culpepper. As much as I like Culpepper, he's not going to be as malleable as any rookie would be in terms of having Cameron teach him to be the kind of QB Cameron wants him to be. I also think that Brady Quinn has a little bit of that make the right play at the right moment thing going for him. But either way, if we draft Brady Quinn, Daunte still has two years to take hold of this team and perform. When trading for a guy or signing him in free agency, I almost never think beyond 3 years. I've found it to be a good discipline. One of those three years is gone for Daunte. He had the opportunity to take the bull by the horns and if he'd been performing like Daunte is capable of performing, then let's face it Nick probably never would have shoved him back to rehab. Even with Brady Quinn here, Daunte would get his opportunity to complete that three-year window by performing well in 2007 and 2008...and then we'd have a pretty nice dilemma on our hands. We could continue to ride Daunte, or we could go with Quinn...but either one would be a highly tradeable asset. In other words, I see very, very limited position-based downside to taking Brady Quinn. Therefore, your downside is limited to prospect-based downside...in other words how confident are you that Brady Quinn will become a great player vs. how confident are you that someone else (Ted Ginn Jr., Gaines Adams, Alan Branch, Adam Carriker, Levi Brown, etc.) will become a great player. Right now I have to say it's Quinn...I'm more confident in Quinn than all of the above players.


Nt to mention Quinn could oush Daunte to become a better QB.