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View Full Version : An honest assessment of Brady Quinn - from an Irish fan



NMUCats
02-19-2007, 09:57 PM
Hey Dolphins fans, I've been looking around at some NFL forums to see where Quinn may end up, and I noticed that there is more activity about him here than anywhere else, so I thought I would try and throw in my .02 from someone who has watched every snap of his for the last 4 years. I will TRY as hard as I can to put my biases aside and be straight up honest.

Arm Strength - Most people have it right that say Brady has good, but not great arm strength. He does not have the cannon of a guy like Russell, but he does not have a weak arm either. I would probably label it as above average. However, his arm strength should get linked directly with his decision making, because he makes very smart throws and rarely needs to rifle it into tight spots. I did see him make a throw against PSU this year that he threw into triple coverage where he absolutely unloaded it, and it bounced off the chest of a PSU defender who tried to pick it. He went over and had a meeting with coach Weis after that, and needless to say he didn't force many throws after that. :lol:

Accuracy - Again, from what I've read, most people have Brady pegged correctly in terms of accuracy. He is very accurate on the short to medium throws, and one of his better attributes is the fact that he is very good at hitting receivers in stride on those routes. He got a lot of yardage due to the fact that his receivers rarely had to break stride to catch it, and got a lot of YACs due to this. His weakness is his accuracy on deeper throws of more than 20 yards. Sometimes his balls float a bit too much and allow defenders to close on them. In terms of vertical deep balls, he benefited from 2 great receivers who pulled down jump balls with ease, so many of his deep balls were high throws that allowed his receivers to make plays on them. He will have to adjust to hitting his receivers in stride on deep throws rather than throwing floating ones, but he certainly can do it and has hit throws like that while keeping his receivers in stride. One other thing to note: Quinn can be streaky at times. No better example than this year's MSU game, where he looked like a freshman the first 2-3 drives, then proceeded to catch fire and throw for 300+ yards and 5 tds. It's frustrating at times when he's off, but when he's hot it's fun to watch.

Decision making - Brady's best attribute IMO. The guy simply doesn't make many boneheaded plays, and he is not afraid to throw it away and live another day when under pressure. This is why he had games of below 50% accuracy against great teams...because most of the time he was under a tremendous amount of pressure and threw away 8-10 balls a game. If he had great protection most of the time, his completion percentage would have been as high or higher than Russell's, but there were a lot of throw-aways in there. He had an astounding td-int ratio, and nearly broke the NCAA record for most passes without a pick this year. I was absolutely shocked when I saw him make a poor throw into coverage that got picked in the Sugar Bowl, because I hadn't seen him do that all year. Then again, his team was down 17 and his defense wasn't getting close to making stops, so I think that was a direct result of trying too hard to make a play.

Intelligence - Another very good attribute that Brady has going for him. He will pick up any NFL offense within a year, mark my words. I remember Weis saying last year that he had not cut down on his playbook one bit, much to his surprise, because Brady had picked it all up by the first game (and his playbook is not short by any means). He is a very smart guy who studies film very hard, and it shows in games. He also got the nod from Weis to audible out of a play any time he felt like it was needed during this past year, depending on how the defense lined up, and he became very good at reading and picking up blitzes before the snap. Most of the pressure on Brady came directly from the o-line simply getting beat, rather than blitzes running free.

Intangibles - The 2 words that come to mind when I think of Brady are 1) toughness, and 2) leader. I remember his first start of his career against Purdue, as a freshman, getting sacked 9 times and getting hit 3 times that amount, but he kept picking himself back up and somehow threw for 300+ yds. I knew then that he would be the starter the next 3 years, and he has started every game since. In terms of leadership, the guy has been the unchallenged leader for 2 years at ND, and he has never once hung a teammate out to dry (And trust me, this is a huge thing, because he's a better man than I). His linemen failed him time and again, and at times our second receiver got a severe case of the dropsies, and he would go into his post-game conference without mentioning them once and puting the fault entirely on himself. I remember an announcer mentioning that our rb, Darius Walker, said that he thought that things would be ok when Brady was under center, no matter the circumstance (turned out prophetic, because it was just before the improbable comeback against UCLA).

Big Games - Okay, I have to address this, because I've never seen a stigma so universally attached to a draftee than Brady and his "big game wilts". Let me first go over every "big game" he has played in the last 2 years, then I'll go over the big time pressure situations.

05
(forgive me if some of these rankings are off by a couple, I'm going off of memory)
9/10: ND vs #3 Michigan (W 17-10) - ND went into the big house and won for the first time in like 10 years, however, the defense actually won this one. Brady played mistake free and did what he needed to do, but wasn't dominant (to be fair, it was his 2nd game in the Weis offense). Still, it was a huge win at the time, even though Michigan faltered later in the year and finished 7-5. Brady's stats: 19/30, 140 yds, no picks & no tds

10/15: ND vs #1 USC (L 34-31) - This is THE game that makes me laugh at the "Big game Brady" critics. USC was on a long winning streak and were the defending champs, while ND was trying to prove that they belonged in the top 10. Other than a play early in the game where Brady's arm got hit as he threw it, he played extremely well, and had what should have been one of the biggest, most clutch game winning drives in a long, long time at Notre Dame. Was it really his fault that he didn't play corner on 4th and 9? Because if the pass falls incomplete, Brady's the hero and nobody questions his big game ability right now. Finished 19/35, 264 yds, 2 total tds & 1 pick
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc)

1/2: ND vs #4 Ohio State (L 34-20) - ND played a stacked OSU team with a defense that featured something like 7 NFL draft picks. Brady actually didn't play too bad, finishing 29/45, 286 yds, no picks & no tds, but his defense gave up 617 yds and 34 pts and never allowed a comeback.

06
9/9: ND vs #19 Penn State (W 41-17) - This was a rivalry game with a lot on the line early in the year, and Brady played very, very good against a defense that finished the year in the top 20. Brady's stats: 25/36, 287 yds, 3 tds & no picks
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate)

9/16: ND vs #11 Michigan (L 47-21) - A huge game, and the one big game that Brady truly played poorly in. He had no running game whatsoever, and was throwing on every down, but he still did not play well. No argument here, finished 24/48, 234 yds, 3 tds & 3 picks

11/26: ND vs #3 USC (L 44-24) - Another huge game, and again, I actually thought Brady played very well in this one. His receiver, Rhema McKnight, dropped 3 first downs in the first half, 2 of them coming on 4th down, and all of them in USC territory that probably would have resulted in points. Again, not much of a running game to speak of, and again, the defense gave in, but he finished 22/45, 274 yards & 3 tds w/no picks. I would bet at least 8 of those incompletions were throw aways, wouldn't read into the percentage too much.

1/3: ND vs #4 LSU (L 41-14) - Repeat above, except Brady played below average in this one. ND went to a max protect to protect him, and only had 2 receivers running most of the night, and it showed. Still, he didn't play as you would expect a high draft pick to play, and finished with statistically the worst "big game" of them all: 15/35, 148 yds, 2 tds and 2 picks

Pressure Moments

9/23: ND vs MSU (W 40-37) - Crazy game. Quinn looked lost the first quarter, then caught fire and led the Irish, with a bit of help from his defense (gasp), from 16 down in the 4th in a rainstorm to pull off the improbable win. Finished 20/36, 319 yards, 5 tds, 1 pick.
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu)

10/21: ND vs UCLA (W 20-17) - Another crazy ending. Quinn was being pressured the whole game, and never really got into rhythm, until the final drive with the season in the balance. Talk about going from depression to euphoria, geez. Here's the video:
http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html (http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html)


As for my thoughts on how he would fit with the Dolphins, I think he would be a great fit. For the first time in his career he would have a strong defense backing him up, which would take a HUGE amount of pressure off of him, since he wouldn't be expected to score EVERY possession, as was the case with Notre Dame. Also, Ronnie Brown is a very good back, and should help open things up for him. Culpepper is a nice qb, and someone who can give Brady a year or two to get acclimated. It sounds like your offensive coordinator likes to incorporate short-medium passing plays, and if so, that would be an absolutely perfect pick for Brady, and one where he would be most likely to excel. I really hope he falls to #9, because I feel the Dolphins have the things in place that would make it the most likely place for Brady to succeed. Just prayin the Raiders or Lions don't scoop him up...:shakeno:

Anyways, I'm sorry for writing a book, didn't intend to, but I've watched a lot of Brady Quinn snaps what can I say! I tried to be as unbiased as possible, but it's pretty difficult being the ND fan that I am. Hopefully you didn't find this to be 10 minutes that you want back in your life! Cheers

jim1
02-19-2007, 10:06 PM
Great post, thanks.

Rytackle22
02-19-2007, 10:07 PM
wow very well thought out, I dont see much biased at all. GREAT post.

DolFan707
02-19-2007, 10:08 PM
wow

SCall13
02-19-2007, 10:08 PM
Very nice post. Broken down nicely and fairly. I personally think Brady will make a very good NFL QB and I hope like hell Miami is able to pick him.

RoninFin4
02-19-2007, 10:11 PM
Great post NMUcats! Welcome to Finheaven as well!

footballer
02-19-2007, 10:16 PM
that was awesome bro. honest, and awesome. great post. please come back.

Geforce
02-19-2007, 10:17 PM
Outstanding post and your .02 is very much appreciated.

Oh yeah...welcome to FinHeaven.

Mainge
02-19-2007, 10:19 PM
Your input is appreciated. Thanks for the write-up!

PhenomenalPhin
02-19-2007, 10:22 PM
Glad to see your honest opinion from someone who has been following Brady through his whole college career. Great write up, I want Miami to get him so bad..

etsudolfan
02-19-2007, 10:24 PM
Great post! I think our chances of him either falling to us or us moving up to get him are both good. We just hired the qb coach he has been preparing for the draft with

"The Dolphins today announced the hiring of veteran coach Terry Shea as quarterbacks coach"

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/dolphins/content/sports/epaper/2007/02/19/0219dolphins.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=46

Cannonboy
02-19-2007, 10:24 PM
From one ND fan to another, great post. You really explaned everything great. I too think Quinn would be a great fit for the fins.

fish fan 4 life
02-19-2007, 10:28 PM
Good post thanks

CitizenSnips
02-19-2007, 10:35 PM
Not a big Brady Quinn Fan.

But I'm giving it up for this post. Hell of a post my friend. Probably one of the smartest and well thought out arguments I've ever read on here.

rayfinkle5
02-19-2007, 10:37 PM
Fight on Trojans!

phinphanforever
02-19-2007, 10:44 PM
Hey Dolphins fans, I've been looking around at some NFL forums to see where Quinn may end up, and I noticed that there is more activity about him here than anywhere else, so I thought I would try and throw in my .02 from someone who has watched every snap of his for the last 4 years. I will TRY as hard as I can to put my biases aside and be straight up honest.

Arm Strength - Most people have it right that say Brady has good, but not great arm strength. He does not have the cannon of a guy like Russell, but he does not have a weak arm either. I would probably label it as above average. However, his arm strength should get linked directly with his decision making, because he makes very smart throws and rarely needs to rifle it into tight spots. I did see him make a throw against PSU this year that he threw into triple coverage where he absolutely unloaded it, and it bounced off the chest of a PSU defender who tried to pick it. He went over and had a meeting with coach Weis after that, and needless to say he didn't force many throws after that. :lol:

Accuracy - Again, from what I've read, most people have Brady pegged correctly in terms of accuracy. He is very accurate on the short to medium throws, and one of his better attributes is the fact that he is very good at hitting receivers in stride on those routes. He got a lot of yardage due to the fact that his receivers rarely had to break stride to catch it, and got a lot of YACs due to this. His weakness is his accuracy on deeper throws of more than 20 yards. Sometimes his balls float a bit too much and allow defenders to close on them. In terms of vertical deep balls, he benefited from 2 great receivers who pulled down jump balls with ease, so many of his deep balls were high throws that allowed his receivers to make plays on them. He will have to adjust to hitting his receivers in stride on deep throws rather than throwing floating ones, but he certainly can do it and has hit throws like that while keeping his receivers in stride. One other thing to note: Quinn can be streaky at times. No better example than this year's MSU game, where he looked like a freshman the first 2-3 drives, then proceeded to catch fire and throw for 300+ yards and 5 tds. It's frustrating at times when he's off, but when he's hot it's fun to watch.

Decision making - Brady's best attribute IMO. The guy simply doesn't make many boneheaded plays, and he is not afraid to throw it away and live another day when under pressure. This is why he had games of below 50% accuracy against great teams...because most of the time he was under a tremendous amount of pressure and threw away 8-10 balls a game. If he had great protection most of the time, his completion percentage would have been as high or higher than Russell's, but there were a lot of throw-aways in there. He had an astounding td-int ratio, and nearly broke the NCAA record for most passes without a pick this year. I was absolutely shocked when I saw him make a poor throw into coverage that got picked in the Sugar Bowl, because I hadn't seen him do that all year. Then again, his team was down 17 and his defense wasn't getting close to making stops, so I think that was a direct result of trying too hard to make a play.

Intelligence - Another very good attribute that Brady has going for him. He will pick up any NFL offense within a year, mark my words. I remember Weis saying last year that he had not cut down on his playbook one bit, much to his surprise, because Brady had picked it all up by the first game (and his playbook is not short by any means). He is a very smart guy who studies film very hard, and it shows in games. He also got the nod from Weis to audible out of a play any time he felt like it was needed during this past year, depending on how the defense lined up, and he became very good at reading and picking up blitzes before the snap. Most of the pressure on Brady came directly from the o-line simply getting beat, rather than blitzes running free.

Intangibles - The 2 words that come to mind when I think of Brady are 1) toughness, and 2) leader. I remember his first start of his career against Purdue, as a freshman, getting sacked 9 times and getting hit 3 times that amount, but he kept picking himself back up and somehow threw for 300+ yds. I knew then that he would be the starter the next 3 years, and he has started every game since. In terms of leadership, the guy has been the unchallenged leader for 2 years at ND, and he has never once hung a teammate out to dry (And trust me, this is a huge thing, because he's a better man than I). His linemen failed him time and again, and at times our second receiver got a severe case of the dropsies, and he would go into his post-game conference without mentioning them once and puting the fault entirely on himself. I remember an announcer mentioning that our rb, Darius Walker, said that he thought that things would be ok when Brady was under center, no matter the circumstance (turned out prophetic, because it was just before the improbable comeback against UCLA).

Big Games - Okay, I have to address this, because I've never seen a stigma so universally attached to a draftee than Brady and his "big game wilts". Let me first go over every "big game" he has played in the last 2 years, then I'll go over the big time pressure situations.

05
(forgive me if some of these rankings are off by a couple, I'm going off of memory)
9/10: ND vs #3 Michigan (W 17-10) - ND went into the big house and won for the first time in like 10 years, however, the defense actually won this one. Brady played mistake free and did what he needed to do, but wasn't dominant (to be fair, it was his 2nd game in the Weis offense). Still, it was a huge win at the time, even though Michigan faltered later in the year and finished 7-5. Brady's stats: 19/30, 140 yds, no picks & no tds

10/15: ND vs #1 USC (L 34-31) - This is THE game that makes me laugh at the "Big game Brady" critics. USC was on a long winning streak and were the defending champs, while ND was trying to prove that they belonged in the top 10. Other than a play early in the game where Brady's arm got hit as he threw it, he played extremely well, and had what should have been one of the biggest, most clutch game winning drives in a long, long time at Notre Dame. Was it really his fault that he didn't play corner on 4th and 9? Because if the pass falls incomplete, Brady's the hero and nobody questions his big game ability right now. Finished 19/35, 264 yds, 2 total tds & 1 pick
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc)

1/2: ND vs #4 Ohio State (L 34-20) - ND played a stacked OSU team with a defense that featured something like 7 NFL draft picks. Brady actually didn't play too bad, finishing 29/45, 286 yds, no picks & no tds, but his defense gave up 617 yds and 34 pts and never allowed a comeback.

06
9/9: ND vs #19 Penn State (W 41-17) - This was a rivalry game with a lot on the line early in the year, and Brady played very, very good against a defense that finished the year in the top 20. Brady's stats: 25/36, 287 yds, 3 tds & no picks
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate)

9/16: ND vs #11 Michigan (L 47-21) - A huge game, and the one big game that Brady truly played poorly in. He had no running game whatsoever, and was throwing on every down, but he still did not play well. No argument here, finished 24/48, 234 yds, 3 tds & 3 picks

11/26: ND vs #3 USC (L 44-24) - Another huge game, and again, I actually thought Brady played very well in this one. His receiver, Rhema McKnight, dropped 3 first downs in the first half, 2 of them coming on 4th down, and all of them in USC territory that probably would have resulted in points. Again, not much of a running game to speak of, and again, the defense gave in, but he finished 22/45, 274 yards & 3 tds w/no picks. I would bet at least 8 of those incompletions were throw aways, wouldn't read into the percentage too much.

1/3: ND vs #4 LSU (L 41-14) - Repeat above, except Brady played below average in this one. ND went to a max protect to protect him, and only had 2 receivers running most of the night, and it showed. Still, he didn't play as you would expect a high draft pick to play, and finished with statistically the worst "big game" of them all: 15/35, 148 yds, 2 tds and 2 picks

Pressure Moments

9/23: ND vs MSU (W 40-37) - Crazy game. Quinn looked lost the first quarter, then caught fire and led the Irish, with a bit of help from his defense (gasp), from 16 down in the 4th in a rainstorm to pull off the improbable win. Finished 20/36, 319 yards, 5 tds, 1 pick.
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu)

10/21: ND vs UCLA (W 20-17) - Another crazy ending. Quinn was being pressured the whole game, and never really got into rhythm, until the final drive with the season in the balance. Talk about going from depression to euphoria, geez. Here's the video:
http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html (http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html)


As for my thoughts on how he would fit with the Dolphins, I think he would be a great fit. For the first time in his career he would have a strong defense backing him up, which would take a HUGE amount of pressure off of him, since he wouldn't be expected to score EVERY possession, as was the case with Notre Dame. Also, Ronnie Brown is a very good back, and should help open things up for him. Culpepper is a nice qb, and someone who can give Brady a year or two to get acclimated. It sounds like your offensive coordinator likes to incorporate short-medium passing plays, and if so, that would be an absolutely perfect pick for Brady, and one where he would be most likely to excel. I really hope he falls to #9, because I feel the Dolphins have the things in place that would make it the most likely place for Brady to succeed. Just prayin the Raiders or Lions don't scoop him up...:shakeno:

Anyways, I'm sorry for writing a book, didn't intend to, but I've watched a lot of Brady Quinn snaps what can I say! I tried to be as unbiased as possible, but it's pretty difficult being the ND fan that I am. Hopefully you didn't find this to be 10 minutes that you want back in your life! Cheers
Great post. Nice breakdown of Quinn. I actually disagree with a few of your points but they were presented clearly and with a lot of thought.
I confess to not being ahuge Brady Quinn fan. It's not that I think he is garbage it's just that I'm not convinced he is worthy of the number 9 pick. I agree with you that Quinn's best attribute is his leadership qualities but I'm not so sure about his ability to come up big in the important games. I also worry that his arm, while it is considered one of the best at the college level, is going to be below average in the NFL.

The Rev
02-19-2007, 10:45 PM
:welcome: to :fh:
What a way to make a splash on your first post.

Congrats. :wink:

2413fanphins
02-19-2007, 11:11 PM
I am neither more sold or less sold on quinn after your post. I have learned a great deal from you post however. Very well thought out and an abundance of info, some may have never know otherwise.
You really weren't bias at all in my opinion. Great insight and really a great assessment of the guy. I agree with most of what you wrote, some disagreements but minor ones at that.

I am in limbo on quinn really. from most of my posts you would think I was dead set against the guy, but in reality, I just am not sure he is worth the 9th overall pick. I would love him if we didn't have such a high pick though.
I am curious to see how the combine or his personal workout goes.
Time will tell.

Five star post brother, and welcome to finheaven.

paskerbrandon
02-19-2007, 11:26 PM
Wow... First of all, thank you for taking your time to break down basically his entire career.. wonderful post and is greatly appreciated..

The more and more I think about it im glad that he lost a few of those big games because had he not, there would be NO chance for us to get him at #9 overall.. if we manage to get him it could be one of the biggest steals we have ever gotten in a very long time.. this kid has evertything you look for in a starting QB and had it not been for a porous defense (at times) and not much of a running game to speak of he would probably be the #1 overall pick in this years draft..

Brady is to smart of a kid to not succeed in the NFL.. the main things that you look for in a starting QB are leadership skills and being smart with the football... he has both.. I hope to god he falls to #9 and we have our future QB for the first time in a very long time..

FRESHNESS
02-19-2007, 11:29 PM
I definately agree with the praise everyone else here is giving for your comments, brother. Alot of your points reinforce my belief that he will be but a memory at the #9 spot. The guy can't have a bad combine (barring any nagging injuries). The thing that I will echo from your post is the leadership skills. Under that heading I'll input the catagory "unflusterdness" (go ahead and look that one up). I came away from this season being awed at his attention to mechanics (subliminially instilled by now). Him running out of the pocket with a slew of defenders after him, and still his checkdowns/mechanics/poise, etc... were flawless. And this is coming from an anti-Irish viewer. I just knew that ND was going to beat my Nit'y Lions, but I thought it was to be a little close. Brady deserves the accolades that have come (and will come), and to you... a hearty kudos for the post.:banana:

DownUnderFin13
02-19-2007, 11:39 PM
Great post and thanks for the information on Brady

endorPHINS72
02-20-2007, 12:01 AM
Great post, NMU Cats, and welcome to FinHeaven!

miamifire
02-20-2007, 12:21 AM
Thanks for the info. Very good read. I would love to see Quinn in Aqua and Orange.:dolphins:

twohype
02-20-2007, 12:35 AM
Outstanding post - thanks:dolphins:

twohype
02-20-2007, 12:36 AM
Thanks for the info. Very good read. I would love to see Quinn in Aqua and Orange.:dolphins:

Yep:dolphins:

BlueFin
02-20-2007, 12:40 AM
Hey Dolphins fans, I've been looking around at some NFL forums to see where Quinn may end up, and I noticed that there is more activity about him here than anywhere else, so I thought I would try and throw in my .02 from someone who has watched every snap of his for the last 4 years. I will TRY as hard as I can to put my biases aside and be straight up honest.

Arm Strength - Most people have it right that say Brady has good, but not great arm strength. He does not have the cannon of a guy like Russell, but he does not have a weak arm either. I would probably label it as above average. However, his arm strength should get linked directly with his decision making, because he makes very smart throws and rarely needs to rifle it into tight spots. I did see him make a throw against PSU this year that he threw into triple coverage where he absolutely unloaded it, and it bounced off the chest of a PSU defender who tried to pick it. He went over and had a meeting with coach Weis after that, and needless to say he didn't force many throws after that. :lol:

Accuracy - Again, from what I've read, most people have Brady pegged correctly in terms of accuracy. He is very accurate on the short to medium throws, and one of his better attributes is the fact that he is very good at hitting receivers in stride on those routes. He got a lot of yardage due to the fact that his receivers rarely had to break stride to catch it, and got a lot of YACs due to this. His weakness is his accuracy on deeper throws of more than 20 yards. Sometimes his balls float a bit too much and allow defenders to close on them. In terms of vertical deep balls, he benefited from 2 great receivers who pulled down jump balls with ease, so many of his deep balls were high throws that allowed his receivers to make plays on them. He will have to adjust to hitting his receivers in stride on deep throws rather than throwing floating ones, but he certainly can do it and has hit throws like that while keeping his receivers in stride. One other thing to note: Quinn can be streaky at times. No better example than this year's MSU game, where he looked like a freshman the first 2-3 drives, then proceeded to catch fire and throw for 300+ yards and 5 tds. It's frustrating at times when he's off, but when he's hot it's fun to watch.

Decision making - Brady's best attribute IMO. The guy simply doesn't make many boneheaded plays, and he is not afraid to throw it away and live another day when under pressure. This is why he had games of below 50% accuracy against great teams...because most of the time he was under a tremendous amount of pressure and threw away 8-10 balls a game. If he had great protection most of the time, his completion percentage would have been as high or higher than Russell's, but there were a lot of throw-aways in there. He had an astounding td-int ratio, and nearly broke the NCAA record for most passes without a pick this year. I was absolutely shocked when I saw him make a poor throw into coverage that got picked in the Sugar Bowl, because I hadn't seen him do that all year. Then again, his team was down 17 and his defense wasn't getting close to making stops, so I think that was a direct result of trying too hard to make a play.

Intelligence - Another very good attribute that Brady has going for him. He will pick up any NFL offense within a year, mark my words. I remember Weis saying last year that he had not cut down on his playbook one bit, much to his surprise, because Brady had picked it all up by the first game (and his playbook is not short by any means). He is a very smart guy who studies film very hard, and it shows in games. He also got the nod from Weis to audible out of a play any time he felt like it was needed during this past year, depending on how the defense lined up, and he became very good at reading and picking up blitzes before the snap. Most of the pressure on Brady came directly from the o-line simply getting beat, rather than blitzes running free.

Intangibles - The 2 words that come to mind when I think of Brady are 1) toughness, and 2) leader. I remember his first start of his career against Purdue, as a freshman, getting sacked 9 times and getting hit 3 times that amount, but he kept picking himself back up and somehow threw for 300+ yds. I knew then that he would be the starter the next 3 years, and he has started every game since. In terms of leadership, the guy has been the unchallenged leader for 2 years at ND, and he has never once hung a teammate out to dry (And trust me, this is a huge thing, because he's a better man than I). His linemen failed him time and again, and at times our second receiver got a severe case of the dropsies, and he would go into his post-game conference without mentioning them once and puting the fault entirely on himself. I remember an announcer mentioning that our rb, Darius Walker, said that he thought that things would be ok when Brady was under center, no matter the circumstance (turned out prophetic, because it was just before the improbable comeback against UCLA).

Big Games - Okay, I have to address this, because I've never seen a stigma so universally attached to a draftee than Brady and his "big game wilts". Let me first go over every "big game" he has played in the last 2 years, then I'll go over the big time pressure situations.

05
(forgive me if some of these rankings are off by a couple, I'm going off of memory)
9/10: ND vs #3 Michigan (W 17-10) - ND went into the big house and won for the first time in like 10 years, however, the defense actually won this one. Brady played mistake free and did what he needed to do, but wasn't dominant (to be fair, it was his 2nd game in the Weis offense). Still, it was a huge win at the time, even though Michigan faltered later in the year and finished 7-5. Brady's stats: 19/30, 140 yds, no picks & no tds

10/15: ND vs #1 USC (L 34-31) - This is THE game that makes me laugh at the "Big game Brady" critics. USC was on a long winning streak and were the defending champs, while ND was trying to prove that they belonged in the top 10. Other than a play early in the game where Brady's arm got hit as he threw it, he played extremely well, and had what should have been one of the biggest, most clutch game winning drives in a long, long time at Notre Dame. Was it really his fault that he didn't play corner on 4th and 9? Because if the pass falls incomplete, Brady's the hero and nobody questions his big game ability right now. Finished 19/35, 264 yds, 2 total tds & 1 pick
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc)

1/2: ND vs #4 Ohio State (L 34-20) - ND played a stacked OSU team with a defense that featured something like 7 NFL draft picks. Brady actually didn't play too bad, finishing 29/45, 286 yds, no picks & no tds, but his defense gave up 617 yds and 34 pts and never allowed a comeback.

06
9/9: ND vs #19 Penn State (W 41-17) - This was a rivalry game with a lot on the line early in the year, and Brady played very, very good against a defense that finished the year in the top 20. Brady's stats: 25/36, 287 yds, 3 tds & no picks
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate)

9/16: ND vs #11 Michigan (L 47-21) - A huge game, and the one big game that Brady truly played poorly in. He had no running game whatsoever, and was throwing on every down, but he still did not play well. No argument here, finished 24/48, 234 yds, 3 tds & 3 picks

11/26: ND vs #3 USC (L 44-24) - Another huge game, and again, I actually thought Brady played very well in this one. His receiver, Rhema McKnight, dropped 3 first downs in the first half, 2 of them coming on 4th down, and all of them in USC territory that probably would have resulted in points. Again, not much of a running game to speak of, and again, the defense gave in, but he finished 22/45, 274 yards & 3 tds w/no picks. I would bet at least 8 of those incompletions were throw aways, wouldn't read into the percentage too much.

1/3: ND vs #4 LSU (L 41-14) - Repeat above, except Brady played below average in this one. ND went to a max protect to protect him, and only had 2 receivers running most of the night, and it showed. Still, he didn't play as you would expect a high draft pick to play, and finished with statistically the worst "big game" of them all: 15/35, 148 yds, 2 tds and 2 picks

Pressure Moments

9/23: ND vs MSU (W 40-37) - Crazy game. Quinn looked lost the first quarter, then caught fire and led the Irish, with a bit of help from his defense (gasp), from 16 down in the 4th in a rainstorm to pull off the improbable win. Finished 20/36, 319 yards, 5 tds, 1 pick.
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu)

10/21: ND vs UCLA (W 20-17) - Another crazy ending. Quinn was being pressured the whole game, and never really got into rhythm, until the final drive with the season in the balance. Talk about going from depression to euphoria, geez. Here's the video:
http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html (http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html)


As for my thoughts on how he would fit with the Dolphins, I think he would be a great fit. For the first time in his career he would have a strong defense backing him up, which would take a HUGE amount of pressure off of him, since he wouldn't be expected to score EVERY possession, as was the case with Notre Dame. Also, Ronnie Brown is a very good back, and should help open things up for him. Culpepper is a nice qb, and someone who can give Brady a year or two to get acclimated. It sounds like your offensive coordinator likes to incorporate short-medium passing plays, and if so, that would be an absolutely perfect pick for Brady, and one where he would be most likely to excel. I really hope he falls to #9, because I feel the Dolphins have the things in place that would make it the most likely place for Brady to succeed. Just prayin the Raiders or Lions don't scoop him up...:shakeno:

Anyways, I'm sorry for writing a book, didn't intend to, but I've watched a lot of Brady Quinn snaps what can I say! I tried to be as unbiased as possible, but it's pretty difficult being the ND fan that I am. Hopefully you didn't find this to be 10 minutes that you want back in your life! Cheers

Thanks for taking the time.......we appreciate it!

ckparrothead
02-20-2007, 12:54 AM
The one thing about the "big moment" stuff is really, you can just ask the lay Irish fans about it and they'll tell you.

See, that's one of the FIRST things that the lay fans will be able to tell you about a guy. We're talking about the fans that just kind of watch the games and let the games come to them. The easiest way for a quarterback to lose the fanbase is to not come through in the big moments, and to always leave the fans thinking he performed poorly even though the stat sheet says that he performed really well.

I'm not saying that the lay fans are the best judges of QB talent. I'm saying they're extremely sensitive to perception.

The visual that certain people are trying to paint of Brady Quinn is that he's this guy that collects junk stats against junk teams, and wilts during pressure moments against good teams.

If that were true, he would have left the ND fans rather disenchanted with his performances and unimpressed. I've seen that time and again with guys that play here in Miami, be it the Hurricanes or the Dolphins.

DonShula84
02-20-2007, 01:07 AM
Great post man, glad to see some more Irish fans around also ;)

Da Phinishisher
02-20-2007, 01:12 AM
Great post, that is a truly objective, interesting read.

NMUCats
02-20-2007, 01:17 AM
Thanks guys, I just have too much time on my hands! I'm actually a big Bears fan, but the Dolphins will certainly be my #2 if Brady does end up going there.

I certainly agree that the big game thing is a perception that people have that don't follow ND football day in-day out, and honestly I can't blame them, because from the outset it appears true. By casually looking at the score and record of the "big games", I can see how people would attribute it all to Brady. That's just what comes with being qb at ND...you always get more credit and blame than you deserve. Fact is it's still a team game, and that's why Rex Grossman made it to the Super Bowl this year, and it was Peyton's first. QB is a huge part of the team, but it is still a piece and not the whole thing. Just coming from someone who has watched all of Brady's games, I can tell you the reasons for their failure to win the big ones had a lot more to do with other parts of the team rather than how Quinn played.

Glad you guys got something out of the post.

DiepatriotsDie
02-20-2007, 01:24 AM
Thanks NMUCats. Good analysis. I'm a Quinn fan.

Regan21286
02-20-2007, 01:29 AM
I remember an announcer mentioning that our rb, Darius Walker, said that he thought that things would be ok when Brady was under center, no matter the circumstance (turned out prophetic, because it was just before the improbable comeback against UCLA).

10/21: ND vs UCLA (W 20-17) - Another crazy ending. Quinn was being pressured the whole game, and never really got into rhythm, until the final drive with the season in the balance. Talk about going from depression to euphoria, geez. Here's the video:
http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html (http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html)

As for my thoughts on how he would fit with the Dolphins, I think he would be a great fit. For the first time in his career he would have a strong defense backing him up, which would take a HUGE amount of pressure off of him, since he wouldn't be expected to score EVERY possession, as was the case with Notre Dame. Also, Ronnie Brown is a very good back, and should help open things up for him. Culpepper is a nice qb, and someone who can give Brady a year or two to get acclimated. It sounds like your offensive coordinator likes to incorporate short-medium passing plays, and if so, that would be an absolutely perfect pick for Brady, and one where he would be most likely to excel. I really hope he falls to #9, because I feel the Dolphins have the things in place that would make it the most likely place for Brady to succeed. Just prayin the Raiders or Lions don't scoop him up...:shakeno:

Anyways, I'm sorry for writing a book, didn't intend to, but I've watched a lot of Brady Quinn snaps what can I say! I tried to be as unbiased as possible, but it's pretty difficult being the ND fan that I am. Hopefully you didn't find this to be 10 minutes that you want back in your life! Cheers

Can't agree with you more. Good job breaking it down. Begrudingly so with the UCLA game performance. :wink: Even though my school's team lost that day, I was still impressed by Brady Quinn. And I don't say that about many QB's who beat any team I like. Tom Brady is one though and that's good company.

NMUCats
02-20-2007, 01:35 AM
Regan, where is Hickman supposed to go in the draft? He impressed the heck out of me, and was an absolute animal that game. I'd love to see the Bears pick him up, but DE isn't really a need right now.

BTW, THANK YOU for knocking off the Trojans. Man was that cool.

dougfinsfan72
02-20-2007, 01:38 AM
Very good post on a QB that I'm not too crazy about, but he might just end up becoming a Dolphin come draft day.

Two of my concerns about Brady Quinn are his "flutter balls" and his accuracy on the deep throws. If you think those attributes were problematic on the college level imagine how much of a problem they will be with a Ed Reed or the like at safety. Repeat after me INT, one more time INT.

I also noticed that he had several games where his completion percentage was under 50% or just over 50%. That's not going to cut it in the NFL. When I watch him play I don't get that WOW feeling like I got from watching Vince Young tear apart the USC defense with not just his running but his passing accuracy.

Well we got Shea as a QB coach and the Dolphins now know every weakness and strength that BQ has. If they don't select him now then you know he has a lot of holes in his game.

The nunber one reason not to draft Brady Quinn: his initials are QB backwards!

LOL, just kidding!

I think we can afford to do without Quinn this year. If anything, we go all-out next year in trying to get one of the QBs who will be rated a better prospect than Brady Quinn. From what I hear, there are at least 3 of them.

outlawd2u
02-20-2007, 02:03 AM
this was a good post, I like Quinn

DefensiveEnd#76
02-20-2007, 07:09 AM
I see Quinn as being nothing more then either Joey Harrington or Rick Mirer. He has a very ordinary arm and can't put a team on his shoulders. He's a "game manager" type, not a franchise QB. We need a franchise QB!!!!!!!

NJFINSFAN1
02-20-2007, 09:44 AM
Hey Dolphins fans, I've been looking around at some NFL forums to see where Quinn may end up, and I noticed that there is more activity about him here than anywhere else, so I thought I would try and throw in my .02 from someone who has watched every snap of his for the last 4 years. I will TRY as hard as I can to put my biases aside and be straight up honest.

Arm Strength - Most people have it right that say Brady has good, but not great arm strength. He does not have the cannon of a guy like Russell, but he does not have a weak arm either. I would probably label it as above average. However, his arm strength should get linked directly with his decision making, because he makes very smart throws and rarely needs to rifle it into tight spots. I did see him make a throw against PSU this year that he threw into triple coverage where he absolutely unloaded it, and it bounced off the chest of a PSU defender who tried to pick it. He went over and had a meeting with coach Weis after that, and needless to say he didn't force many throws after that. :lol:

Accuracy - Again, from what I've read, most people have Brady pegged correctly in terms of accuracy. He is very accurate on the short to medium throws, and one of his better attributes is the fact that he is very good at hitting receivers in stride on those routes. He got a lot of yardage due to the fact that his receivers rarely had to break stride to catch it, and got a lot of YACs due to this. His weakness is his accuracy on deeper throws of more than 20 yards. Sometimes his balls float a bit too much and allow defenders to close on them. In terms of vertical deep balls, he benefited from 2 great receivers who pulled down jump balls with ease, so many of his deep balls were high throws that allowed his receivers to make plays on them. He will have to adjust to hitting his receivers in stride on deep throws rather than throwing floating ones, but he certainly can do it and has hit throws like that while keeping his receivers in stride. One other thing to note: Quinn can be streaky at times. No better example than this year's MSU game, where he looked like a freshman the first 2-3 drives, then proceeded to catch fire and throw for 300+ yards and 5 tds. It's frustrating at times when he's off, but when he's hot it's fun to watch.

Decision making - Brady's best attribute IMO. The guy simply doesn't make many boneheaded plays, and he is not afraid to throw it away and live another day when under pressure. This is why he had games of below 50% accuracy against great teams...because most of the time he was under a tremendous amount of pressure and threw away 8-10 balls a game. If he had great protection most of the time, his completion percentage would have been as high or higher than Russell's, but there were a lot of throw-aways in there. He had an astounding td-int ratio, and nearly broke the NCAA record for most passes without a pick this year. I was absolutely shocked when I saw him make a poor throw into coverage that got picked in the Sugar Bowl, because I hadn't seen him do that all year. Then again, his team was down 17 and his defense wasn't getting close to making stops, so I think that was a direct result of trying too hard to make a play.

Intelligence - Another very good attribute that Brady has going for him. He will pick up any NFL offense within a year, mark my words. I remember Weis saying last year that he had not cut down on his playbook one bit, much to his surprise, because Brady had picked it all up by the first game (and his playbook is not short by any means). He is a very smart guy who studies film very hard, and it shows in games. He also got the nod from Weis to audible out of a play any time he felt like it was needed during this past year, depending on how the defense lined up, and he became very good at reading and picking up blitzes before the snap. Most of the pressure on Brady came directly from the o-line simply getting beat, rather than blitzes running free.

Intangibles - The 2 words that come to mind when I think of Brady are 1) toughness, and 2) leader. I remember his first start of his career against Purdue, as a freshman, getting sacked 9 times and getting hit 3 times that amount, but he kept picking himself back up and somehow threw for 300+ yds. I knew then that he would be the starter the next 3 years, and he has started every game since. In terms of leadership, the guy has been the unchallenged leader for 2 years at ND, and he has never once hung a teammate out to dry (And trust me, this is a huge thing, because he's a better man than I). His linemen failed him time and again, and at times our second receiver got a severe case of the dropsies, and he would go into his post-game conference without mentioning them once and puting the fault entirely on himself. I remember an announcer mentioning that our rb, Darius Walker, said that he thought that things would be ok when Brady was under center, no matter the circumstance (turned out prophetic, because it was just before the improbable comeback against UCLA).

Big Games - Okay, I have to address this, because I've never seen a stigma so universally attached to a draftee than Brady and his "big game wilts". Let me first go over every "big game" he has played in the last 2 years, then I'll go over the big time pressure situations.

05
(forgive me if some of these rankings are off by a couple, I'm going off of memory)
9/10: ND vs #3 Michigan (W 17-10) - ND went into the big house and won for the first time in like 10 years, however, the defense actually won this one. Brady played mistake free and did what he needed to do, but wasn't dominant (to be fair, it was his 2nd game in the Weis offense). Still, it was a huge win at the time, even though Michigan faltered later in the year and finished 7-5. Brady's stats: 19/30, 140 yds, no picks & no tds

10/15: ND vs #1 USC (L 34-31) - This is THE game that makes me laugh at the "Big game Brady" critics. USC was on a long winning streak and were the defending champs, while ND was trying to prove that they belonged in the top 10. Other than a play early in the game where Brady's arm got hit as he threw it, he played extremely well, and had what should have been one of the biggest, most clutch game winning drives in a long, long time at Notre Dame. Was it really his fault that he didn't play corner on 4th and 9? Because if the pass falls incomplete, Brady's the hero and nobody questions his big game ability right now. Finished 19/35, 264 yds, 2 total tds & 1 pick
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc)

1/2: ND vs #4 Ohio State (L 34-20) - ND played a stacked OSU team with a defense that featured something like 7 NFL draft picks. Brady actually didn't play too bad, finishing 29/45, 286 yds, no picks & no tds, but his defense gave up 617 yds and 34 pts and never allowed a comeback.

06
9/9: ND vs #19 Penn State (W 41-17) - This was a rivalry game with a lot on the line early in the year, and Brady played very, very good against a defense that finished the year in the top 20. Brady's stats: 25/36, 287 yds, 3 tds & no picks
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate)

9/16: ND vs #11 Michigan (L 47-21) - A huge game, and the one big game that Brady truly played poorly in. He had no running game whatsoever, and was throwing on every down, but he still did not play well. No argument here, finished 24/48, 234 yds, 3 tds & 3 picks

11/26: ND vs #3 USC (L 44-24) - Another huge game, and again, I actually thought Brady played very well in this one. His receiver, Rhema McKnight, dropped 3 first downs in the first half, 2 of them coming on 4th down, and all of them in USC territory that probably would have resulted in points. Again, not much of a running game to speak of, and again, the defense gave in, but he finished 22/45, 274 yards & 3 tds w/no picks. I would bet at least 8 of those incompletions were throw aways, wouldn't read into the percentage too much.

1/3: ND vs #4 LSU (L 41-14) - Repeat above, except Brady played below average in this one. ND went to a max protect to protect him, and only had 2 receivers running most of the night, and it showed. Still, he didn't play as you would expect a high draft pick to play, and finished with statistically the worst "big game" of them all: 15/35, 148 yds, 2 tds and 2 picks

Pressure Moments

9/23: ND vs MSU (W 40-37) - Crazy game. Quinn looked lost the first quarter, then caught fire and led the Irish, with a bit of help from his defense (gasp), from 16 down in the 4th in a rainstorm to pull off the improbable win. Finished 20/36, 319 yards, 5 tds, 1 pick.
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu)

10/21: ND vs UCLA (W 20-17) - Another crazy ending. Quinn was being pressured the whole game, and never really got into rhythm, until the final drive with the season in the balance. Talk about going from depression to euphoria, geez. Here's the video:
http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html (http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html)


As for my thoughts on how he would fit with the Dolphins, I think he would be a great fit. For the first time in his career he would have a strong defense backing him up, which would take a HUGE amount of pressure off of him, since he wouldn't be expected to score EVERY possession, as was the case with Notre Dame. Also, Ronnie Brown is a very good back, and should help open things up for him. Culpepper is a nice qb, and someone who can give Brady a year or two to get acclimated. It sounds like your offensive coordinator likes to incorporate short-medium passing plays, and if so, that would be an absolutely perfect pick for Brady, and one where he would be most likely to excel. I really hope he falls to #9, because I feel the Dolphins have the things in place that would make it the most likely place for Brady to succeed. Just prayin the Raiders or Lions don't scoop him up...:shakeno:

Anyways, I'm sorry for writing a book, didn't intend to, but I've watched a lot of Brady Quinn snaps what can I say! I tried to be as unbiased as possible, but it's pretty difficult being the ND fan that I am. Hopefully you didn't find this to be 10 minutes that you want back in your life! Cheers

Good read, thanks

WPBtoRNOFinFan
02-20-2007, 12:42 PM
Good analysis, but I think we have more pressing needs.

Paul Mad ScotPZ
02-20-2007, 12:44 PM
I see Quinn as being nothing more then either Joey Harrington or Rick Mirer. He has a very ordinary arm and can't put a team on his shoulders. He's a "game manager" type, not a franchise QB. We need a franchise QB!!!!!!!

OK so where do we get him from. :(

All QB's are game managers, that the definition of the role . Its a team game and the QB is the leader on the field.

I am on the fence on Quinn but as with all drafted players they all have the propensity to boom or bust

PhinsRock
02-20-2007, 01:41 PM
Ecellent post, hope to read more from you on FinHeaven in the future.

BennyVW
02-20-2007, 02:05 PM
Great post. Thanks for the info it's really appreciated.

Regan21286
02-20-2007, 03:03 PM
Regan, where is Hickman supposed to go in the draft? He impressed the heck out of me, and was an absolute animal that game. I'd love to see the Bears pick him up, but DE isn't really a need right now.

BTW, THANK YOU for knocking off the Trojans. Man was that cool.

It depends whether scouts can see him as a DE/OLB. He's a bit short as DE so if he can make the switch to hybrid, there's sure to be a 3-4 team wanting to get him. Right now, I'm guessing 6th to 7th rounder. 5th if he can transit to OLB/DE and up to 4th with a good Combine. He would be perfect for us if he pans out. Sort of a Adalius Thomas lite.

Yea, that was a great game. The offense sputtered but our D kept us in the game. Sort like it is the way here. I guess karma would have it that at the next game I went to at the Rose Bowl (and against my will I might add), USC destroyed Michigan.

PhinstiGator
02-20-2007, 03:14 PM
Accuracy - Again, from what I've read, most people have Brady pegged correctly in terms of accuracy. He is very accurate on the short to medium throws, and one of his better attributes is the fact that he is very good at hitting receivers in stride on those routes. He got a lot of yardage due to the fact that his receivers rarely had to break stride to catch it, and got a lot of YACs due to this. His weakness is his accuracy on deeper throws of more than 20 yards. Sometimes his balls float a bit too much and allow defenders to close on them. In terms of vertical deep balls, he benefited from 2 great receivers who pulled down jump balls with ease, so many of his deep balls were high throws that allowed his receivers to make plays on them. He will have to adjust to hitting his receivers in stride on deep throws rather than throwing floating ones, but he certainly can do it and has hit throws like that while keeping his receivers in stride. One other thing to note: Quinn can be streaky at times. No better example than this year's MSU game, where he looked like a freshman the first 2-3 drives, then proceeded to catch fire and throw for 300+ yards and 5 tds. It's frustrating at times when he's off, but when he's hot it's fun to watch...



Excellent post. Your section on Accuracy really sums up the area for concern...and further development.

In your opinion, which NFL QB does Brady Quinn most remind you of?

NMUCats
02-20-2007, 03:16 PM
He could be a sleeper as a low round pick for somebody. For your sake, hopefully the Dolphins snatch him up.

BTW, it's really cool that so many of you guys can set aside your college biases when it comes to the draft. I've been to quite a few other sites, and it's absolutely amazing how much anti-ND stuff there is when it comes to Brady. If you don't like him as a qb prospect, that's perfectly fine with me, it's just many people don't like him simply because he played at ND. It's like some people hold it against Brady that he's gotten so much media attention, but I can promise you he didn't ask for it.

Oh, and to the Canes fans: Thanks for Devin Hester
To the Gator fans: Thanks for Alex Brown

Regan21286
02-20-2007, 03:28 PM
He could be a sleeper as a low round pick for somebody. For your sake, hopefully the Dolphins snatch him up.

BTW, it's really cool that so many of you guys can set aside your college biases when it comes to the draft. I've been to quite a few other sites, and it's absolutely amazing how much anti-ND stuff there is when it comes to Brady. If you don't like him as a qb prospect, that's perfectly fine with me, it's just many people don't like him simply because he played at ND. It's like some people hold it against Brady that he's gotten so much media attention, but I can promise you he didn't ask for it.

Oh, and to the Canes fans: Thanks for Devin Hester
To the Gator fans: Thanks for Alex Brown

I definitely hope we get him. He's a great pass-rusher with decent quickness and strength. And I've seen him drag down RB's after running across the field and get to WR's on screen passes. Well, it was only practice but still.

Once the players are out of their college, all college biases end there because there's now a possibility they'll end up on your fave pro team. That's the way I think of it. But I'll admit that during the ND-UCLA game, there was a moment when I thought, "Man, I wish that guy were on my team". If he falls to us at 9 and we get that thought comes true, I'll forgive him for tanking whatever chances we had at the top 25.

NMUCats
02-20-2007, 03:31 PM
Excellent post. Your section on Accuracy really sums up the area for concern...and further development.

In your opinion, which NFL QB does Brady Quinn most remind you of?

Hmmm, well I can tell you he's the anti-Rex Grossman haha. Rex's strength is his accuracy on deep balls and his arm strength, and his weakness is his poor decision making at times. So he's completely opposite from him.

I guess I would have to say Peyton Manning, because their strengths match up pretty closely. Now obviously, Brady's got a long ways to go until he reaches that level, but they play very similarly. Both are real cerebral guys that just play the game "smart". If Brady can get his deep throws down, he's got the potential to be that type of player, because mentally he's got the same capabilities that Manning has, and he has the same drive and work ethic. One area that Manning needed to improve on (and has) coming out of college was his pocket prescence and escaping pressure, and that's the one area that Brady is probably ahead of Manning in in terms of development. He's gotten a lot of practice this year facing pressure, so he became very good at sidestepping defenders in the pocket while keeping his eyes downfield. Besides that, the guy is a tank, and is very tough to take down with one arm. I remember a game last year against Air Force where a d-lieman broke loose and was running free at Quinn, and Quinn tried to elude him, but the lineman managed to get an arm around Quinn and wrap him up. Quinn stood his ground, dragged the guy a foot or two, and fired a bullet downfield for a td. Obviously NFL guys will be bigger and stronger than any college lineman, but he is still a tough guy to take down.

DolfinDave
02-20-2007, 03:35 PM
Very good review of Quinn. I watched him for the past two years and I agree with everything you said. (And don't care all that much for ND) I think arm strength is a bit overrated. He has enough to get buy. And when you throw in his good accuracy, he shouldn't have any problems. ND's offense looked exactly like the Patriots offense, and Quinn picked it up very well. So I don't think he will have any problems digesting a playbook in the pros. I would strongly consider him and a few other guys at 9, but would feel very comfortable drafting Quinn.

ckparrothead
02-20-2007, 03:41 PM
The things that separate Peyton Manning and Tom Brady from other QBs is their study habits and their ability to digest offenses and defenses.

That is one of the things I feel separates Brady Quinn from the crowd at QB. He doesn't just passively let the offense come to him, he goes out and works hard for it. Peyton Manning and Zach Thomas may be two of the most avid film watchers in this league and it has served them both well.

For that, I want the man that voluntarily went to Patriots headquarters and brought home a shopping cart of 4 years of tape on Tom Brady and spent an entire summer watching every single play. I want the man that took boxing lessons to help his throwing mechanics. I want the man that absorbed all of Charlie Weis' complicated playbook within a matter of months and never had the thing dumbed down. I want the man that went on vacation with his girlfriend in the islands and bought a temporary gym membership for the two of them so that they could both stay in tip-top shape even on vacation.

caneaddict
02-20-2007, 03:43 PM
Great post. Nice breakdown of Quinn. I actually disagree with a few of your points but they were presented clearly and with a lot of thought.
I confess to not being ahuge Brady Quinn fan. It's not that I think he is garbage it's just that I'm not convinced he is worthy of the number 9 pick. I agree with you that Quinn's best attribute is his leadership qualities but I'm not so sure about his ability to come up big in the important games. I also worry that his arm, while it is considered one of the best at the college level, is going to be below average in the NFL.

The arm strength is actually one thing I don't mind in a prospect anymore. I used to highly value arm strength. Don't get me wrong if a guy has an average arm for college then he probably won't make it in the league. But if a guy has an above average arm then I notice that arm strength tends to progress with age.

Manning was criticized for not having huge arm strength. Same with Brady. Both of those guys can fire missiles right now. Even Alex Smith appears to be developing significantly more arm strength now then he had in college. Towards the end of last season Smith threw a few lasers down the field and his BIGGEST knock was arm strength.

My thinking now is that these college QB's basically haven't developed physically yet. Think about it. In high school they probably threw with poor mechanics and didn't work out very seriously. In college, they train alot but they still have classes and parties etc. They are playing football part time and therefore working on strength quarter time.

You get to the NFL and that's it. You are training hard core with the best trainers year round and all you do is throw the football again and again and again and again. Plus at age 22 your body starts maturing and you develop real strength. EVERY QB throws significantly stronger at 27 then at 22.

That's why Quinn's supposed lack of Russel type arm strength really doesn't worry me much. He clearly has above average strength and great accuracy in the short and medium game. I'm sure the accuracy in the long game will come with developed arm strength.

Crunkcore
02-20-2007, 03:48 PM
Great post about Quinn.

Regan21286
02-20-2007, 03:49 PM
The things that separate Peyton Manning and Tom Brady from other QBs is their study habits and their ability to digest offenses and defenses.

That is one of the things I feel separates Brady Quinn from the crowd at QB. He doesn't just passively let the offense come to him, he goes out and works hard for it. Peyton Manning and Zach Thomas may be two of the most avid film watchers in this league and it has served them both well.

For that, I want the man that voluntarily went to Patriots headquarters and brought home a shopping cart of 4 years of tape on Tom Brady and spent an entire summer watching every single play. I want the man that took boxing lessons to help his throwing mechanics. I want the man that absorbed all of Charlie Weis' complicated playbook within a matter of months and never had the thing dumbed down. I want the man that went on vacation with his girlfriend in the islands and bought a temporary gym membership for the two of them so that they could both stay in tip-top shape even on vacation.

Never knew about the boxing lessons or the temp gym membership before though I'd heard about his research on Tom Brady (hopefully he can give us his copies if the Fins don't have particular ones :lol: ). But that just adds to his list of great work ethic. All I will say is this: I want Brady Quinn.

kashbo
02-20-2007, 03:52 PM
thats real

ckparrothead
02-20-2007, 03:57 PM
The arm strength is actually one thing I don't mind in a prospect anymore. I used to highly value arm strength. Don't get me wrong if a guy has an average arm for college then he probably won't make it in the league. But if a guy has a slightly above average arm then I notice that arm strength tends to progress with age.

Manning was criticized for not having huge arm strength. Same with Brady. Both of those guys can fire missiles right now. Even Alex Smith appears to be developing significantly more arm strength now then he had in college. Towards the end of last season Smith threw a few lasers down the field and his BIGGEST knock was ar strength.

My thinking now is that these college QB's basically haven't developed physically yet. Think about it. In high school they probably threw with poor mechanics and didn't work out very seriously. In college, they train alot but they still have classes and parties etc. They are playing football part time and therefore working on strength quarter time.

You get to the NFL and that's it. You are training hard core with the best trainers year round and all you do is throw the football again and again and again and again. Plus at age 22 your body starts maturing and you develop real strength. EVERY QB throws significantly stronger at 27 then at 22.

That's why Quinn's supposed lack of Russel type arm strength really doesn't worry me much. He clearly has above average strength and great accuracy in the short and medium game. I'm sure the accuracy in the long game will come with developed arm strength.

That's an interesting theory. You can add Drew Brees among the guys whose arms have gotten better as pros than they were in college.

Personally I think Peyton's arm and Brady's arm are the same as they were in college. The thing that has changed is the mindset. Neither has that John Elway, against the body type of rocket. Neither has the 25 yard Dan Marino laser.

But they both can heave it pretty far and pretty when needed, and they can fit it into tight spaces...and I think they both belong in the "above average" space.

That's where Brady Quinn's arm belongs. Jamarcus Russell and Jay Cutler were unique in that they had arms that belong in that top, top echelon. There are only so many starters that have arms that are similar to that. I think Losman, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Leftwich, Brooks, McNair, Culpepper, and McNabb sort of belong in a category of their own with Cutler & Russell...as far as the "big guns" go.

From there you've got strong arms but not world-beaters...Alex Smith, Hasselbeck, Vick, Delhomme, Favre (nowadays), Grossman, Romo, both Mannings, Campbell, Carr, Plummer, Brees, Simms, Brady...probably Vince Young although that delivery is odd and makes his throws hard to evaluate on an apples-for-apples basis with other QBs.

Other guys have noticeably weaker arms but still get the job done...Bulger, Green, Kitna, Leinart...

From there I think guys like Rivers, Pennington, Frye, and Brad Johnson are really on the bubble as far as arm goes.

I'd easily put Brady Quinn into the same category that most NFL starting QBs fall into...same as the Mannings, same as Hasselbeck, etc.

PhinCanuck
02-20-2007, 04:18 PM
Thanks for the read. I am a Fightin' Irish fan as well. I have been watching Quinn for the last three years, and I think the fit in Miami would be perfect. Reading this thread just made me want Quinn to get drafted by the Dolphins even more. What can I say, but only Go Dolphins, Go Irish!!!

Roman529
02-20-2007, 04:39 PM
Excellent post. I think too many guys are judged based on their last game, rather than their complete body of work.

I think there are QB's out there who have stronger arms and are quicker than Quinn, but I think what Quinn has over many other QB's is intelligence, toughness, accuracy, and he rarely makes mistakes that are going to lose games for you. I watched Quinn play against Air Force here in Colorado Springs and he was hitting Jeff Samardzija all over the field. I think if he has time to throw it he can just kill defenses. I would think it would be a crime to pass up Quinn if he is there at the #9 spot. If he is gone, I hope we take
Ginn Jr.

DolfanTom
02-20-2007, 04:47 PM
Hey Dolphins fans, I've been looking around at some NFL forums to see where Quinn may end up, and I noticed that there is more activity about him here than anywhere else, so I thought I would try and throw in my .02 from someone who has watched every snap of his for the last 4 years. I will TRY as hard as I can to put my biases aside and be straight up honest.

Arm Strength - Most people have it right that say Brady has good, but not great arm strength. He does not have the cannon of a guy like Russell, but he does not have a weak arm either. I would probably label it as above average. However, his arm strength should get linked directly with his decision making, because he makes very smart throws and rarely needs to rifle it into tight spots. I did see him make a throw against PSU this year that he threw into triple coverage where he absolutely unloaded it, and it bounced off the chest of a PSU defender who tried to pick it. He went over and had a meeting with coach Weis after that, and needless to say he didn't force many throws after that. :lol:

Accuracy - Again, from what I've read, most people have Brady pegged correctly in terms of accuracy. He is very accurate on the short to medium throws, and one of his better attributes is the fact that he is very good at hitting receivers in stride on those routes. He got a lot of yardage due to the fact that his receivers rarely had to break stride to catch it, and got a lot of YACs due to this. His weakness is his accuracy on deeper throws of more than 20 yards. Sometimes his balls float a bit too much and allow defenders to close on them. In terms of vertical deep balls, he benefited from 2 great receivers who pulled down jump balls with ease, so many of his deep balls were high throws that allowed his receivers to make plays on them. He will have to adjust to hitting his receivers in stride on deep throws rather than throwing floating ones, but he certainly can do it and has hit throws like that while keeping his receivers in stride. One other thing to note: Quinn can be streaky at times. No better example than this year's MSU game, where he looked like a freshman the first 2-3 drives, then proceeded to catch fire and throw for 300+ yards and 5 tds. It's frustrating at times when he's off, but when he's hot it's fun to watch.

Decision making - Brady's best attribute IMO. The guy simply doesn't make many boneheaded plays, and he is not afraid to throw it away and live another day when under pressure. This is why he had games of below 50% accuracy against great teams...because most of the time he was under a tremendous amount of pressure and threw away 8-10 balls a game. If he had great protection most of the time, his completion percentage would have been as high or higher than Russell's, but there were a lot of throw-aways in there. He had an astounding td-int ratio, and nearly broke the NCAA record for most passes without a pick this year. I was absolutely shocked when I saw him make a poor throw into coverage that got picked in the Sugar Bowl, because I hadn't seen him do that all year. Then again, his team was down 17 and his defense wasn't getting close to making stops, so I think that was a direct result of trying too hard to make a play.

Intelligence - Another very good attribute that Brady has going for him. He will pick up any NFL offense within a year, mark my words. I remember Weis saying last year that he had not cut down on his playbook one bit, much to his surprise, because Brady had picked it all up by the first game (and his playbook is not short by any means). He is a very smart guy who studies film very hard, and it shows in games. He also got the nod from Weis to audible out of a play any time he felt like it was needed during this past year, depending on how the defense lined up, and he became very good at reading and picking up blitzes before the snap. Most of the pressure on Brady came directly from the o-line simply getting beat, rather than blitzes running free.

Intangibles - The 2 words that come to mind when I think of Brady are 1) toughness, and 2) leader. I remember his first start of his career against Purdue, as a freshman, getting sacked 9 times and getting hit 3 times that amount, but he kept picking himself back up and somehow threw for 300+ yds. I knew then that he would be the starter the next 3 years, and he has started every game since. In terms of leadership, the guy has been the unchallenged leader for 2 years at ND, and he has never once hung a teammate out to dry (And trust me, this is a huge thing, because he's a better man than I). His linemen failed him time and again, and at times our second receiver got a severe case of the dropsies, and he would go into his post-game conference without mentioning them once and puting the fault entirely on himself. I remember an announcer mentioning that our rb, Darius Walker, said that he thought that things would be ok when Brady was under center, no matter the circumstance (turned out prophetic, because it was just before the improbable comeback against UCLA).

Big Games - Okay, I have to address this, because I've never seen a stigma so universally attached to a draftee than Brady and his "big game wilts". Let me first go over every "big game" he has played in the last 2 years, then I'll go over the big time pressure situations.

05
(forgive me if some of these rankings are off by a couple, I'm going off of memory)
9/10: ND vs #3 Michigan (W 17-10) - ND went into the big house and won for the first time in like 10 years, however, the defense actually won this one. Brady played mistake free and did what he needed to do, but wasn't dominant (to be fair, it was his 2nd game in the Weis offense). Still, it was a huge win at the time, even though Michigan faltered later in the year and finished 7-5. Brady's stats: 19/30, 140 yds, no picks & no tds

10/15: ND vs #1 USC (L 34-31) - This is THE game that makes me laugh at the "Big game Brady" critics. USC was on a long winning streak and were the defending champs, while ND was trying to prove that they belonged in the top 10. Other than a play early in the game where Brady's arm got hit as he threw it, he played extremely well, and had what should have been one of the biggest, most clutch game winning drives in a long, long time at Notre Dame. Was it really his fault that he didn't play corner on 4th and 9? Because if the pass falls incomplete, Brady's the hero and nobody questions his big game ability right now. Finished 19/35, 264 yds, 2 total tds & 1 pick
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2005_usc)

1/2: ND vs #4 Ohio State (L 34-20) - ND played a stacked OSU team with a defense that featured something like 7 NFL draft picks. Brady actually didn't play too bad, finishing 29/45, 286 yds, no picks & no tds, but his defense gave up 617 yds and 34 pts and never allowed a comeback.

06
9/9: ND vs #19 Penn State (W 41-17) - This was a rivalry game with a lot on the line early in the year, and Brady played very, very good against a defense that finished the year in the top 20. Brady's stats: 25/36, 287 yds, 3 tds & no picks
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_pennstate)

9/16: ND vs #11 Michigan (L 47-21) - A huge game, and the one big game that Brady truly played poorly in. He had no running game whatsoever, and was throwing on every down, but he still did not play well. No argument here, finished 24/48, 234 yds, 3 tds & 3 picks

11/26: ND vs #3 USC (L 44-24) - Another huge game, and again, I actually thought Brady played very well in this one. His receiver, Rhema McKnight, dropped 3 first downs in the first half, 2 of them coming on 4th down, and all of them in USC territory that probably would have resulted in points. Again, not much of a running game to speak of, and again, the defense gave in, but he finished 22/45, 274 yards & 3 tds w/no picks. I would bet at least 8 of those incompletions were throw aways, wouldn't read into the percentage too much.

1/3: ND vs #4 LSU (L 41-14) - Repeat above, except Brady played below average in this one. ND went to a max protect to protect him, and only had 2 receivers running most of the night, and it showed. Still, he didn't play as you would expect a high draft pick to play, and finished with statistically the worst "big game" of them all: 15/35, 148 yds, 2 tds and 2 picks

Pressure Moments

9/23: ND vs MSU (W 40-37) - Crazy game. Quinn looked lost the first quarter, then caught fire and led the Irish, with a bit of help from his defense (gasp), from 16 down in the 4th in a rainstorm to pull off the improbable win. Finished 20/36, 319 yards, 5 tds, 1 pick.
http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu (http://dietler.net/nd/videos/quickplay/?video=2006_msu)

10/21: ND vs UCLA (W 20-17) - Another crazy ending. Quinn was being pressured the whole game, and never really got into rhythm, until the final drive with the season in the balance. Talk about going from depression to euphoria, geez. Here's the video:
http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html (http://extrapoint.typepad.com/the_extra_point/2006/10/var_api_ve_getc_16.html)


As for my thoughts on how he would fit with the Dolphins, I think he would be a great fit. For the first time in his career he would have a strong defense backing him up, which would take a HUGE amount of pressure off of him, since he wouldn't be expected to score EVERY possession, as was the case with Notre Dame. Also, Ronnie Brown is a very good back, and should help open things up for him. Culpepper is a nice qb, and someone who can give Brady a year or two to get acclimated. It sounds like your offensive coordinator likes to incorporate short-medium passing plays, and if so, that would be an absolutely perfect pick for Brady, and one where he would be most likely to excel. I really hope he falls to #9, because I feel the Dolphins have the things in place that would make it the most likely place for Brady to succeed. Just prayin the Raiders or Lions don't scoop him up...:shakeno:

Anyways, I'm sorry for writing a book, didn't intend to, but I've watched a lot of Brady Quinn snaps what can I say! I tried to be as unbiased as possible, but it's pretty difficult being the ND fan that I am. Hopefully you didn't find this to be 10 minutes that you want back in your life! CheersDude, this is awesome. Thanks!!!

I hope somehow the Dolphins can make this happen!

Mike13
02-20-2007, 04:54 PM
Great read.

The thing I really like about Quinn is his toughness and that he is an intelligent QB. WE've seen too many QBs since Marino that have tried to force plays, only to see it picked off.

ckparrothead
02-20-2007, 05:07 PM
Great read.

The thing I really like about Quinn is his toughness and that he is an intelligent QB. WE've seen too many QBs since Marino that have tried to force plays, only to see it picked off.

What I like about Quinn is the overworking mentality. I'm hard pressed to think of a good QB that sustained his high level of play that did not have a habit of overworking and overachievement.

Ben Roethlisberger, IMO, is a prime example of what can happen to a guy when he's lax in the film room...lax in his preparation...lax in his lifestyle as it pertains to making sure he's at peak physical condition for Sundays.

texasPHINSfan
02-20-2007, 06:31 PM
thanks for joining up NMUcats, and thanks for your insight here.

you're welcome for Hester and Brown - noticed you didn't thank us for Grossman :lol:

Keep up the great posts and please feel free to stick around regardless who drafts Quinn.

Phanatical
02-21-2007, 12:29 AM
Woah, great thread/post. I was excited for Quinn BEFORE your post, now I am completely psyched. Problem is, I don't think he'll fall to #9. If he does, he's gotta be our first pick.

GO PHINS~!

PublixSubsRule
02-21-2007, 08:58 AM
Thanks for the post

DolfanTom
02-21-2007, 10:53 AM
The things that separate Peyton Manning and Tom Brady from other QBs is their study habits and their ability to digest offenses and defenses.

That is one of the things I feel separates Brady Quinn from the crowd at QB. He doesn't just passively let the offense come to him, he goes out and works hard for it. Peyton Manning and Zach Thomas may be two of the most avid film watchers in this league and it has served them both well.

For that, I want the man that voluntarily went to Patriots headquarters and brought home a shopping cart of 4 years of tape on Tom Brady and spent an entire summer watching every single play. I want the man that took boxing lessons to help his throwing mechanics. I want the man that absorbed all of Charlie Weis' complicated playbook within a matter of months and never had the thing dumbed down. I want the man that went on vacation with his girlfriend in the islands and bought a temporary gym membership for the two of them so that they could both stay in tip-top shape even on vacation.Wow, this is just perfect.

This post should be required reading for all "Quinn Haters."

ckparrothead
02-21-2007, 10:59 AM
Wow, this is just perfect.

This post should be required reading for all "Quinn Haters."

It's such a small thing, but just look at Quinn's arm when he throws the ball. His skin is tight, he's got veins bulging out, split muscles, etc. You can tell a lot about how hard a guy works by that kind of definition...anywhere on their body.

Crowder52
02-21-2007, 11:17 AM
It's such a small thing, but just look at Quinn's arm when he throws the ball. His skin is tight, he's got veins bulging out, split muscles, etc. You can tell a lot about how hard a guy works by that kind of definition...anywhere on their body.

My gay-dar just went off.

DolfanTom
02-21-2007, 11:19 AM
My gay-dar just went off.Hey, save that for the depths :wink:

His point is perfect. Quinn is pretty physically fit - which speaks to his overall dedication to what he is doing.

Dude is going to be a star in this league. I just hope it's w/ a Dolphin on the side of his helmet!!! We have the chance to get this guy now, whether he falls to us, or if we trade up.

We need to make this happen!

ckparrothead
02-21-2007, 11:23 AM
My gay-dar just went off.

Were your parents disappointed? Or generally pretty accepting?

2413fanphins
02-24-2007, 11:18 AM
ya and when you look at peyton manning, no veins, no muscles bulging out.


so quinn is a weight room junkie, many of us are.
this makes no better or worse quarterback than if he didn't spend as much time in the weightroom.

perhaps peyton is just less dedicated than the almighty brady quinn. aka the next tom brady.

dolfan72734me
02-25-2007, 04:13 AM
ya and when you look at peyton manning, no veins, no muscles bulging out.


so quinn is a weight room junkie, many of us are.
this makes no better or worse quarterback than if he didn't spend as much time in the weightroom.

perhaps peyton is just less dedicated than the almighty brady quinn. aka the next tom brady.

Damn man, did Quinn sleep with your girlfriend or something? What is up with the attitude? Please tell me you don't kick puppies in real life.

2413fanphins
02-25-2007, 11:15 AM
I don't kick puppies in real life.

The Confessor
02-25-2007, 11:30 AM
I don't kick puppies in real life.
:lol:

First, outstanding thread. Nice write-up, and great insight. Thanks

Second, I think what CK was saying is that he is dedicated to being a fit athlete. It doesnt mean he is going to be a great QB, but he does have dedication, which is a good attribute to have.
Sorry, if I was offbase CK