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Dolphins7213
03-22-2007, 08:46 AM
Well give the Falcons credit they had the ammunition in Schaub to move ahead of us to Draft Laron Landry who they thought we might have drafted..I would also believe we cannot move down now because if we did to draft Levi Brown we would lose him to the Teaxans possibly who pick behind us. So now we stay at 9 and draft Levi Brown or Quinn, If both are available we take who we like between the two. I am dissapointed because I really wanted Landry...He is going to be a great football player.. If Quinn and Brown are both gone then it should be interesting to see what we do.

IluvJuMiami
03-22-2007, 08:51 AM
Well give the Falcons credit they had the ammunition in Schaub to move ahead of us to Draft Laron Landry who they thought we might have drafted..I would also believe we cannot move down now because if we did to draft Levi Brown we would lose him to the Teaxans possibly who pick behind us. So now we stay at 9 and draft Levi Brown or Quinn, If both are available we take who we like between the two. I am dissapointed because I really wanted Landry...He is going to be a great football player.. If Quinn and Brown are both gone then it should be interesting to see what we do.

Levi brown is not going to stop us from moving down if that's what we really want, 7213. Come on.

Elliott 1
03-22-2007, 09:25 AM
Quinn will be gone and trading up is the stupidest most irrational idea for a team in Miami's position I can think of.

This is the same kind of thinking that has half the people in the USA in debt.

People don't know the meaning of," WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!," anymore.

We are in no position as a team to be trading up. In fact we need our 3rd and 4th and even our 6th round picks to come in and have an impact.

We can't trade our picks away to move up for glory players. That kind of thing is for teams with full rosters, not teams with only 5 OL on their roster.

If our FO does something like this, then we deserve the bottom for a few more years until we learn to grow up and take a mature disciplined attitude toward building a football team.

The Dolphins need to do everything they can to trade down and get more picks to fill up the offensive line with talent and get some real potential on the PS.

fishyanks
03-22-2007, 09:46 AM
Quinn will be gone and trading up is the stupidest most irrational idea for a team in Miami's position I can think of.

This is the same kind of thinking that has half the people in the USA in debt.

People don't know the meaning of," WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!," anymore.

We are in no position as a team to be trading up. In fact we need our 3rd and 4th and even our 6th round picks to come in and have an impact.

We can't trade our picks away to move up for glory players. That kind of thing is for teams with full rosters, not teams with only 5 OL on their roster.

If our FO does something like this, then we deserve the bottom for a few more years until we learn to grow up and take a mature disciplined attitude toward building a football team.

The Dolphins need to do everything they can to trade down and get more picks to fill up the offensive line with talent and get some real potential on the PS.

Disagree with your post. I think this is the time to finally settle the Qb position that has plagued us since Dan left. We will never contend with retreads. I feel we need to be aggressive, trade up (take our medicine) and get our QB once and for all.

cellman007
03-22-2007, 09:53 AM
Disagree with your post. I think this is the time to finally settle the Qb position that has plagued us since Dan left. We will never contend with retreads. I feel we need to be aggressive, trade up (take our medicine) and get our QB once and for all.


I disagree with his post as well, however I just don't think we will be able to get up high enough to get Quinn now, alot of people talking that Cleveland and Minnesota are seriously interested in him now. But I can see a scenario where we do trade down possibly to the bottom third of the draft get a couple of more picks and landing Stanton, it maybe a little high at that time for him, but don't think they'll take the chance of him being there in the 2nd round.

finner
03-22-2007, 10:26 AM
Quinn will be gone and trading up is the stupidest most irrational idea for a team in Miami's position I can think of.

This is the same kind of thinking that has half the people in the USA in debt.

People don't know the meaning of," WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!," anymore.

We are in no position as a team to be trading up. In fact we need our 3rd and 4th and even our 6th round picks to come in and have an impact.

We can't trade our picks away to move up for glory players. That kind of thing is for teams with full rosters, not teams with only 5 OL on their roster.

If our FO does something like this, then we deserve the bottom for a few more years until we learn to grow up and take a mature disciplined attitude toward building a football team.

The Dolphins need to do everything they can to trade down and get more picks to fill up the offensive line with talent and get some real potential on the PS.



I absolutely AGREE! We have far too many needs to give up draft capital on a single player --- Quinn, Johnson, or Superman.

Also, what good would it do to give up the draft for e.g. Quinn when we have only ½ an OL? Talk about setting a kid up for failure.

It just seems far too many on this board don’t appreciate the fact (FACT) that everything starts up front.

Great Teams from the past with Great OL’s:

Greenbay with Bart Starr
Miami in the glory days
Pittsburg with Bradshaw, Swann etc.
Dallas with Emmmitt
Washington with Riggins
And the list goes on…

On the other hand, name a SB team (outside of perhaps a few flukes) that won with a “patch and sniff” OL?

Football is really a simple game, and it’s the line of scrimmage where the real “war” is won or lost. Now, once you have a quality OL you can get the most impact out of your skill players --- but skill players without an OL are a joke IMO.

It seems to me right now Ronnie Brown is our best bet to base the offense on. But Ronnie needs a quality OL to have a chance in this league. In all my years of watching football there are only 2 backs I remember that (essentially) didn’t need an OL:

Walter Payton in his prime and Barry Sanders. Other than that, every RB needs movement up front to be productive.

And QB’s need protection and a supporting running game to be efficient and productive. Even the GREAT Marino broke down when the OL broke down (and we all know he NEVER really had a legitimate running game to balance the offense, which along with the crap D’s the team gave him is WHY he never won a SB).

How about Elway? His SB wins came in the twilight of his career when he had an excellent OL coupled with a strong ground game and an “efficient” D. Ironically by the time Elway won the SB he was no longer a player who could “carry his team.” The truth is that players who “carry the team” don’t have a chance of winning a championship --- because a real TEAM will always beat a gang of one.

It’s more than possible to win championships with solid skill players mated with an outstanding OL and excellent D. It’s entirely unrealistic to expect another Marino or Manning to be on the Fins anytime soon. Superstar QB’s don’t come along very often, and even when they do they are NOT a guarantee of winning it all.

phishfan4life
03-22-2007, 10:36 AM
I absolutely AGREE! We have far too many needs to give up draft capital on a single player --- Quinn, Johnson, or Superman.

Also, what good would it do to give up the draft for e.g. Quinn when we have only ½ an OL? Talk about setting a kid up for failure.

It just seems far too many on this board don’t appreciate the fact (FACT) that everything starts up front.

Great Teams from the past with Great OL’s:

Greenbay with Bart Starr
Miami in the glory days
Pittsburg with Bradshaw, Swann etc.
Dallas with Emmmitt
Washington with Riggins
And the list goes on…

On the other hand, name a SB team (outside of perhaps a few flukes) that won with a “patch and sniff” OL?

Football is really a simple game, and it’s the line of scrimmage where the real “war” is won or lost. Now, once you have a quality OL you can get the most impact out of your skill players --- but skill players without an OL are a joke IMO.

It seems to me right now Ronnie Brown is our best bet to base the offense on. But Ronnie needs a quality OL to have a chance in this league. In all my years of watching football there are only 2 backs I remember that (essentially) didn’t need an OL:

Walter Payton in his prime and Barry Sanders. Other than that, every RB needs movement up front to be productive.

And QB’s need protection and a supporting running game to be efficient and productive. Even the GREAT Marino broke down when the OL broke down (and we all know he NEVER really had a legitimate running game to balance the offense, which along with the crap D’s the team gave him is WHY he never won a SB).

How about Elway? His SB wins came in the twilight of his career when he had an excellent OL coupled with a strong ground game and an “efficient” D. Ironically by the time Elway won the SB he was no longer a player who could “carry his team.” The truth is that players who “carry the team” don’t have a chance of winning a championship --- because a real TEAM will always beat a gang of one.

It’s more than possible to win championships with solid skill players mated with an outstanding OL and excellent D. It’s entirely unrealistic to expect another Marino or Manning to be on the Fins anytime soon. Superstar QB’s don’t come along very often, and even when they do they are NOT a guarantee of winning it all.

Wow, great post!!!! I couldn't have put it better myself. I hope the FO is thinking like this.:dolphins:

Dolphins7213
03-22-2007, 10:48 AM
Levi brown is not going to stop us from moving down if that's what we really want, 7213. Come on.

How about if we move down to 11 12 or 13 and the Texans take brown at 10 then guess what we dont get him..can you follow that??

Dolphins7213
03-22-2007, 10:52 AM
Quinn will be gone and trading up is the stupidest most irrational idea for a team in Miami's position I can think of.

This is the same kind of thinking that has half the people in the USA in debt.

People don't know the meaning of," WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!," anymore.

We are in no position as a team to be trading up. In fact we need our 3rd and 4th and even our 6th round picks to come in and have an impact.

We can't trade our picks away to move up for glory players. That kind of thing is for teams with full rosters, not teams with only 5 OL on their roster.

If our FO does something like this, then we deserve the bottom for a few more years until we learn to grow up and take a mature disciplined attitude toward building a football team.

The Dolphins need to do everything they can to trade down and get more picks to fill up the offensive line with talent and get some real potential on the PS.

who said anything about us moving up..Why are you ranting??

Paul 13
03-22-2007, 11:13 AM
Well give the Falcons credit they had the ammunition in Schaub to move ahead of us to Draft Laron Landry who they thought we might have drafted..I would also believe we cannot move down now because if we did to draft Levi Brown we would lose him to the Teaxans possibly who pick behind us. So now we stay at 9 and draft Levi Brown or Quinn, If both are available we take who we like between the two. I am dissapointed because I really wanted Landry...He is going to be a great football player.. If Quinn and Brown are both gone then it should be interesting to see what we do.

Sorry dude, but the Falcons didn't trade Schaub to move two spots up in the first round, they got two second round picks! To prove my point, the difference between the 10th and 8th pick in the first round, according to the all important draft value chart, is a mere 100 points. Those second round picks are worth on average 420 points EACH. By the way a pick in the early part of the 4th round is worth 100 points. Just because they moved from one spot behind the Phins to one spot ahead of us, doesn't mean they were worried about who we picked. It's a side note.

Dolphins7213
03-22-2007, 11:49 AM
Sorry dude, but the Falcons didn't trade Schaub to move two spots up in the first round, they got two second round picks! To prove my point, the difference between the 10th and 8th pick in the first round, according to the all important draft value chart, is a mere 100 points. Those second round picks are worth on average 420 points EACH. By the way a pick in the early part of the 4th round is worth 100 points. Just because they moved from one spot behind the Phins to one spot ahead of us, doesn't mean they were worried about who we picked. It's a side note.

DUDE when you pick behind a team you ALWAYS worry who that team will take...

PhinGeneral
03-22-2007, 01:36 PM
Quinn will be gone and trading up is the stupidest most irrational idea for a team in Miami's position I can think of.

This is the same kind of thinking that has half the people in the USA in debt.

People don't know the meaning of," WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!," anymore.

We are in no position as a team to be trading up. In fact we need our 3rd and 4th and even our 6th round picks to come in and have an impact.

We can't trade our picks away to move up for glory players. That kind of thing is for teams with full rosters, not teams with only 5 OL on their roster.

If our FO does something like this, then we deserve the bottom for a few more years until we learn to grow up and take a mature disciplined attitude toward building a football team.

The Dolphins need to do everything they can to trade down and get more picks to fill up the offensive line with talent and get some real potential on the PS.

Great players win you championships. You get them when you can.

If you go into a draft thinking you have to fill all your holes in one draft you'll usually force yourself into a few mistakes. I realize JT and ZT aren't getting any younger, but the organization needs to be cautious about pushing the issue.

Theoretically, I love the idea of trading down and acquiring more picks also. But in order to do that, you need to have conviction that there will be at least 4-5 players that will be available that can be of all-pro caliber. You don't trade down just to trade down, and you don't trade down strictly because you're targeting one or two particular players.

PhinGeneral
03-22-2007, 01:39 PM
Sorry dude, but the Falcons didn't trade Schaub to move two spots up in the first round, they got two second round picks! To prove my point, the difference between the 10th and 8th pick in the first round, according to the all important draft value chart, is a mere 100 points. Those second round picks are worth on average 420 points EACH. By the way a pick in the early part of the 4th round is worth 100 points. Just because they moved from one spot behind the Phins to one spot ahead of us, doesn't mean they were worried about who we picked. It's a side note.

Your kidding yourself then. You don't jump a team unless you have concerns that they may draft someone you're interested in. There's a reason Atlanta asked for that to be included in the trade. In this case the Falcons also have worries in their secondary and on their offensive line.

zach8111
03-22-2007, 03:29 PM
i dont know about you guys but i would rather trade up and get 1 really good player like quinn or johnson and get 3 average players, than trade down with denver or a late rounder and get seven average/below average players. that is all miami does is get those average/below average guys every year with few exception, and we arent getting any better. we need to take some risk and get a really good player.

miamiron
03-22-2007, 03:55 PM
Quinn will be gone and trading up is the stupidest most irrational idea for a team in Miami's position I can think of.

This is the same kind of thinking that has half the people in the USA in debt.

People don't know the meaning of," WE CAN'T AFFORD IT!," anymore.

We are in no position as a team to be trading up. In fact we need our 3rd and 4th and even our 6th round picks to come in and have an impact.

We can't trade our picks away to move up for glory players. That kind of thing is for teams with full rosters, not teams with only 5 OL on their roster.

If our FO does something like this, then we deserve the bottom for a few more years until we learn to grow up and take a mature disciplined attitude toward building a football team.

The Dolphins need to do everything they can to trade down and get more picks to fill up the offensive line with talent and get some real potential on the PS.
OUTSTANDING POST

Paul 13
03-22-2007, 04:07 PM
Your kidding yourself then. You don't jump a team unless you have concerns that they may draft someone you're interested in. There's a reason Atlanta asked for that to be included in the trade. In this case the Falcons also have worries in their secondary and on their offensive line.


Well i'm sticking to my opinion that it wasn't the primary reason for trading Schaub. Certainly, it's nice to move up in the first round. They could be targeting Landry, but I wouldn't be too upset if we had to settle for Brown. Our line is in much more need of talent than our secondary. Drafting Landry would be repeating our thought process from last year, when we drafted Allen. I just don't think we need help at safety, with Bell blossoming and Allen expected to start this year. Now corner is a different story.

finner
03-22-2007, 04:45 PM
i dont know about you guys but i would rather trade up and get 1 really good player like quinn or johnson and get 3 average players, than trade down with denver or a late rounder and get seven average/below average players. that is all miami does is get those average/below average guys every year with few exception, and we arent getting any better. we need to take some risk and get a really good player.


Since when does either Quinn or Johnson come with a “100% Guaranteed to be a Star” guarantee???

The point in drafting down is twofold:

#1 MAXIMIZE the value of your draft potential

and…

#2 Minimize your risk by acquiring numerous possibilities instead of just 1

If you recall this strategy produced Zack and a few other “below average players” who turned out to be pretty damn good. IMO whatever anyone thinks they know about the draft, it’s critical to understand it’s NOT an exact science. You don’t get to choose a players profile on the back of a cornflakes box and automatically claim him. To me the draft is a lot like investing --- buy quality, buy value, spread your risk, manage your assets for maximum return with “manageable” risk, etc.

How many “sure bets” on draft day have turned out to be busts? How many “sure bets” on draft day have turned out to be less than spectacular? How many “unknowns” on draft day have turned out to be ALL-Pros? How many “unknowns” on draft day have turned out to be highly productive players? If you answer these questions honestly you’ll see the “value” in trading down intelligently when the opportunity is there and the personnel situation warrants it.

Bottom line --- the Dolphins need a HARVEST of fresh talent, not just a player or two.