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View Full Version : What would it cost to move up and take JaMarcus Russell- LSU at #1?



Gofish1331
03-24-2007, 01:12 PM
We all know that the QB is the most important piece to a successful franchise, we all know that bringing in a 36 year old Green is a stop gap. Carr is as good as Joey was, no doubt about it so he's not the answer and Dante is awfully quite these days so...... Why not pay the price and move up to take the franchise QB everyone seems to think J.R. is???
All right, beat me up!:dolphins:

Bruzer
03-24-2007, 01:15 PM
Becuase the price is way to high for number 1 pick I would never ever want miami to do it. Plus this belongs in draft forum.

steveincolorado
03-24-2007, 01:17 PM
Why JR? Whats so special about him other than he can throw the ball a mile? Remember he is only a junior and I don't know if he is mature enough for the NFL game yet?? Outside of his arm, what can he do for NFL team?

Gofish1331
03-24-2007, 01:17 PM
Becuase the price is way to high for number 1 pick I would never ever want miami to do it. Plus this belongs in draft forum.
All the talk in this forum about Carr=Joey, Green being to old, Dante moving on! Isn't this something that needs to be discussed here?

Gofish1331
03-24-2007, 01:19 PM
Why JR? Whats so special about him other than he can throw the ball a mile? Remember he is only a junior and I don't know if he is mature enough for the NFL game yet?? Outside of his arm, what can he do for NFL team?
He's the concenses#1 on every board, looks like the real deal...Why not Bite the bullit and start (continue) rebuilding with the most important part of the puzzle?

finintheburgh
03-24-2007, 01:21 PM
We all know that the QB is the most important piece to a successful franchise, we all know that bringing in a 36 year old Green is a stop gap. Carr is as good as Joey was, no doubt about it so he's not the answer and Dante is awfully quite these days so...... Why not pay the price and move up to take the franchise QB everyone seems to think J.R. is???
All right, beat me up!:dolphins:


because thats a lot to pay for a guy that has a good chance of being a bust.

drdolphin
03-24-2007, 01:21 PM
He may be on top of a lot of peeps boards but if Miami had to choose between Russell or Quinn I'd hope they'd take Quinn.

FINFAN15
03-24-2007, 01:22 PM
I would love to see russell in a fins uniform but I think the price is to high.Muller has put us in a good postion this draft with are 9th overall and 2 second rounders we have addressed the defense somewhat and feel.Offense is the way to go in the draft.I just dont see us trying to Trade up to much of a risk with Russell or Quinn.I feel 1st round quterbacks are a risk all together if they dont pan out they cost you not only the pick but alot of money.Iwould rather see us get Stanton or Edwards in the late second or third.But to answer the question I think you would have to give up the ninth a second and a 3rd and your first next year .Too much for me

steveincolorado
03-24-2007, 01:27 PM
He's the concenses#1 on every board, looks like the real deal...Why not Bite the bullit and start (continue) rebuilding with the most important part of the puzzle?


Let's see, a few years back..........

Ryan Leaf or Peyton Manning, Ryan or Peyton, Peyton or Ryan. They were 1 and 2 going into the draft and we all know how Ryan turned out.

Geforce
03-24-2007, 01:27 PM
We all know that the QB is the most important piece to a successful franchise, we all know that bringing in a 36 year old Green is a stop gap. Carr is as good as Joey was, no doubt about it so he's not the answer and Dante is awfully quite these days so...... Why not pay the price and move up to take the franchise QB everyone seems to think J.R. is???
All right, beat me up!:dolphins:

What would it cost? My sanity.


Seriously, for us to move up from #9 to #1 would take the majority of this year's draft and possibly some picks from next year's too. Whether you go by the NFL Draft Value Chart or not, the price is just too high.

Gofish1331
03-24-2007, 01:28 PM
He may be on top of a lot of peeps boards but if Miami had to choose between Russell or Quinn I'd hope they'd take Quinn.
I think you have a really good point,why isn't he rated #1 overall on any boards iv'e seen?

Gofish1331
03-24-2007, 01:30 PM
What would it cost? My sanity.


Seriously, for us to move up from #9 to #1 would take the majority of this year's draft and possibly some picks from next year's too. Whether you go by the NFL Draft Value Chart or not, the price is just too high.
OOOCH!

Geforce
03-24-2007, 01:30 PM
Let's see, a few years back..........

Ryan Leaf or Peyton Manning, Ryan or Peyton, Peyton or Ryan. They were 1 and 2 going into the draft and we all know how Ryan turned out.

Ryan Leaf was an immature headcase. Russell may or may not be immature but he's not a headcase. That's the biggest difference between the two.

CC Coach
03-24-2007, 01:32 PM
No way do you draft Russell over Quinn.
One NFL scout said Russell doesn't put enough time in the film room, can't read defenses that well and isn't that hard of a worker.
Quinn will be much better.

Crunkcore
03-24-2007, 01:33 PM
It would cost way too much moving from 9 to 1.
We need our picks.
Hopefully Miami chooses Quinn over Russell.

alen1
03-24-2007, 01:50 PM
He's the concenses#1 on every board, looks like the real deal...Why not Bite the bullit and start (continue) rebuilding with the most important part of the puzzle?

next ryan leaf IMO

Madman29
03-24-2007, 02:56 PM
honestly i dont like russell i would much rather have quinn anytime. however the way i see the draft it is possible we get russell at #9. call me crazy but players slip all the time just like leinart did last year.. possible #1 all the way to 9 i think. this is how i see the top 9 picks (i havent finished my mock draft so it might change).
1.Oakland- Calvin Johnson
2.Detroit- Brady Quinn
3.Cleveland- Adrian Peterson
4.Tampa Bay- Gaines Adams
5.Arizona- Joe Thomas
6.Washington- Jamaal Anderson
7.Minnesota- Dwayne Jarrett (not sure about this pick yet but i dont think they waste another high pick on a QB. Tavaris Jackson could be there guy they only gave him a quarter of a season to play and now there are valuable QB's in FA.)
8. Atlanta- Laron Landry (i really wanted him)
9. Miami- Jamarcus Russell

again i really hope im wrong because i dont think Russell will be a good pro but im just saying we probably wont have to trade up to get him. i am willing to debate any of my above picks.

Kdawg954
03-24-2007, 03:01 PM
No way do you draft Russell over Quinn.
One NFL scout said Russell doesn't put enough time in the film room, can't read defenses that well and isn't that hard of a worker.
Quinn will be much better.

Man its funny that QB's like Vick, Culpepper, McNabb when he came out, Vince Young, Steve Mcnair and now Russell were said that none of them could read defenses that well and aren't hard workers. Not for nothing, but there seems to be a pretty common theme among those guys. Football analysts tend to fall into the theory that all black QB's are athletes and not real QB's. It's always out there but yet they still have people who buy into that theory.

LMAO @ people saying Jamarcus can't read a defense. He did it in high school, proved it at one of the premier programs in college . . . what makes people think that he can't do it on the next level? If Quinn was in the mold of Russell u would have people saying he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just crazy.

zach8111
03-24-2007, 07:49 PM
We all know that the QB is the most important piece to a successful franchise, we all know that bringing in a 36 year old Green is a stop gap. Carr is as good as Joey was, no doubt about it so he's not the answer and Dante is awfully quite these days so...... Why not pay the price and move up to take the franchise QB everyone seems to think J.R. is???
All right, beat me up!:dolphins:
i like russel too but i think if we move up to #1 spot, then we cant pass up on calvin johnson. he WILL be the most impact player in this draft. we could take a QB in the later rounds and pick up carr, while the QB is developing

Agent51
03-25-2007, 12:38 AM
We all know that the QB is the most important piece to a successful franchise, we all know that bringing in a 36 year old Green is a stop gap. Carr is as good as Joey was, no doubt about it so he's not the answer and Dante is awfully quite these days so...... Why not pay the price and move up to take the franchise QB everyone seems to think J.R. is???
All right, beat me up!:dolphins:

It may end up costing my loyalty to this franchise. I would be BEYOND pissed if we took Russell ANYWHERE in the draft, nevermind if we gave up all the picks/players we would need to move up to #1 overall.

The guy is fat and lazy, which will probably only get worse when he's a multi-millionaire. People have questioned his commitmet and work ethic for a LONG time now, and that was when he was "auditioning for an NFL job" in college, what happens once he signs the contract and gets the money? He won't have ANY incentive to work hard anymore (not that he really did when he HAD incentive). He doesn't have great accuracy, he has poor mechanics (ie throwin off his back foot ALL the time), and he has inflated numbers due to the system he played in. This guy wasn't even named the starter until the season opener, and name ONE person that had him at, or anywhere NEAR, the top of their draft boards BEFORE the Sugar Bowl?

retarmyfinfan
03-25-2007, 01:33 AM
We all know that the QB is the most important piece to a successful franchise, we all know that bringing in a 36 year old Green is a stop gap. Carr is as good as Joey was, no doubt about it so he's not the answer and Dante is awfully quite these days so...... Why not pay the price and move up to take the franchise QB everyone seems to think J.R. is???
All right, beat me up!:dolphins:

It would cost too much and we have too many needs. We should take Stanton in the 2nd, have him play behind whoever will be our starter this season and maybe next and hope he will be the guy down the road. Improve our OL, CB, S and WR with the rest of the draft picks.

fishypete
03-25-2007, 02:02 AM
It may end up costing my loyalty to this franchise. I would be BEYOND pissed if we took Russell ANYWHERE in the draft, nevermind if we gave up all the picks/players we would need to move up to #1 overall.

The guy is fat and lazy, which will probably only get worse when he's a multi-millionaire. People have questioned his commitmet and work ethic for a LONG time now, and that was when he was "auditioning for an NFL job" in college, what happens once he signs the contract and gets the money? He won't have ANY incentive to work hard anymore (not that he really did when he HAD incentive). He doesn't have great accuracy, he has poor mechanics (ie throwin off his back foot ALL the time), and he has inflated numbers due to the system he played in. This guy wasn't even named the starter until the season opener, and name ONE person that had him at, or anywhere NEAR, the top of their draft boards BEFORE the Sugar Bowl?

I have to agree....in fact I believe there's more value in the 3-6 round range this draft, at QB. Both Russell and Quinn are being hyped....as it is in every draft. Buyer beware.

Regan21286
03-25-2007, 04:25 AM
Man its funny that QB's like Vick, Culpepper, McNabb when he came out, Vince Young, Steve Mcnair and now Russell were said that none of them could read defenses that well and aren't hard workers. Not for nothing, but there seems to be a pretty common theme among those guys. Football analysts tend to fall into the theory that all black QB's are athletes and not real QB's. It's always out there but yet they still have people who buy into that theory.

LMAO @ people saying Jamarcus can't read a defense. He did it in high school, proved it at one of the premier programs in college . . . what makes people think that he can't do it on the next level? If Quinn was in the mold of Russell u would have people saying he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Just crazy.

I didn't hear about McNair or McNabb not being able to read D's well. In fact, both have successfully made a transition into being fully pocket QB's, though injuries in the past have made it a bit rough. You hardly see McNabb break out and run any more than you see Jeff Garcia doing it. That's where Vick and Culpepper fall short. It's not a racism deal, it's just how it is. I want to see how Young does without a good RB behind him and his 2 main WR's gone before I can pass judgment.

Reading college and especially high school D's is nothing like the pros. It's the transition that makes or breaks a QB in the NFL. It's why cerebral guys like Manning and Brady succeed while cannon arms Leaf don't.

Geforce
03-25-2007, 11:04 AM
It may end up costing my loyalty to this franchise. I would be BEYOND pissed if we took Russell ANYWHERE in the draft, nevermind if we gave up all the picks/players we would need to move up to #1 overall.

The guy is fat and lazy, which will probably only get worse when he's a multi-millionaire. People have questioned his commitmet and work ethic for a LONG time now, and that was when he was "auditioning for an NFL job" in college, what happens once he signs the contract and gets the money? He won't have ANY incentive to work hard anymore (not that he really did when he HAD incentive). He doesn't have great accuracy, he has poor mechanics (ie throwin off his back foot ALL the time), and he has inflated numbers due to the system he played in. This guy wasn't even named the starter until the season opener, and name ONE person that had him at, or anywhere NEAR, the top of their draft boards BEFORE the Sugar Bowl?

If drafting Russell may end costing the Dolphins your loyalty, then so be it.

I can understand you not wanting or even liking Russell but try to stick with something you know or can prove. Russell completed over 65% of his passes this year finishing in the Top 10 among all NCAA Division I passers.

What system did he play in?

Russell was the starter the the past two years at LSU winning 21 games in the process. Are you sure you're not getting him confused with Leak?

Name me ONE person who had Vince Young at the top of their draft boards before the Rose Bowl.
Could it be because no one was expecting them to declare for the draft?

Agent51
03-25-2007, 01:48 PM
If drafting Russell may end costing the Dolphins your loyalty, then so be it.

I can understand you not wanting or even liking Russell but try to stick with something you know or can prove. Russell completed over 65% of his passes this year finishing in the Top 10 among all NCAA Division I passers.

What system did he play in?

Russell was the starter the the past two years at LSU winning 21 games in the process. Are you sure you're not getting him confused with Leak?

Name me ONE person who had Vince Young at the top of their draft boards before the Rose Bowl.
Could it be because no one was expecting them to declare for the draft?

First, read ANY scouting report on him and tell me one where his accuracy isn't questioned. I didn't say he has horrible acuracy, I said it isn't great. Especially with his poor "throw of the back foot" mechanics. Yea, he was the starter for two years, but he wasn't NAMED the starter this year until the season opener, meaning the coaches weren't sure about him. Just because he started for two years doesn't mean he was named the starter as soon as he got there.

No, Vince Young had hype all year long, and the reason he wasn't at the top was because nobody knew if he was coming out or not until the Rose Bowl, that isn't the case with Russell, nobody was even TALKING about him before the Sugar Bowl.

I tend to believe Russells support was a bigger factor in his 21 wins than his actual QB play. His biggest upside is a huge arm, other than that I can't really see anything good about him, especially nothing good for him to be taken this high. It's funny, because Troy Smith has a big arm too, and is more accurate and has better mechanics and can also make plays with his feat, yet HE is a late 2nd or 3rd round projection, which is where Russell WOULD have been had he not shone in the Sugar Bowl, maybe even lower than 3.

Geforce
03-25-2007, 02:22 PM
First, read ANY scouting report on him and tell me one where his accuracy isn't questioned. I didn't say he has horrible acuracy, I said it isn't great. Especially with his poor "throw of the back foot" mechanics. Yea, he was the starter for two years, but he wasn't NAMED the starter this year until the season opener, meaning the coaches weren't sure about him. Just because he started for two years doesn't mean he was named the starter as soon as he got there.
The first place I went to that mentioned his accuracy.
http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/jamarcus_russell.html

JaMarcus was in a battle for the starting QB spot at the beginning of his sophomore season with Matt Flynn. After leading LSU to a 10-2 record he was the incumbent his junior year.


No, Vince Young had hype all year long, and the reason he wasn't at the top was because nobody knew if he was coming out or not until the Rose Bowl, that isn't the case with Russell, nobody was even TALKING about him before the Sugar Bowl.
A lot of people here in the south were talking about Russell, especially after he showed fortitude in leading LSU in a come from behind victory against Tennessee.


I tend to believe Russells support was a bigger factor in his 21 wins than his actual QB play. His biggest upside is a huge arm, other than that I can't really see anything good about him, especially nothing good for him to be taken this high. It's funny, because Troy Smith has a big arm too, and is more accurate and has better mechanics and can also make plays with his feat, yet HE is a late 2nd or 3rd round projection, which is where Russell WOULD have been had he not shone in the Sugar Bowl, maybe even lower than 3.
Russell's support has as much to do with his record than his actual QB play? So they won despite Russell and lost because of him?

Troy Smith may have better mechanics, mainly because he worked hard in the offseason on them, but how is he more accurate? There is also a big difference in the two. Russell is 6'5" whereas Smith is only 6'. To the scouts that means a lot.

Agent51
03-25-2007, 02:58 PM
The first place I went to that mentioned his accuracy.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/jamarcus_russell.html (http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/jamarcus_russell.html)

JaMarcus was in a battle for the starting QB spot at the beginning of his sophomore season with Matt Flynn. After leading LSU to a 10-2 record he was the incumbent his junior year.

A lot of people here in the south were talking about Russell, especially after he showed fortitude in leading LSU in a come from behind victory against Tennessee.

Russell's support has as much to do with his record than his actual QB play? So they won despite Russell and lost because of him?

Troy Smith may have better mechanics, mainly because he worked hard in the offseason on them, but how is he more accurate? There is also a big difference in the two. Russell is 6'5" whereas Smith is only 6'. To the scouts that means a lot.

People in the South talking about him is one thing, he played in the SEC, he had tons of exposure to you guys, but you'd think the consensus #1 overall pick would be garnering NATIONAL attention all year and not just after a bowl win.

I never said wins were the teams doign and losses were Russells, I just said that just because he was starting for the 21 career wins doesn't mean he carried the team on his back and they won all 21 because of him. Record as a starter doesn't mean much, look at Jay Cutler.

And here is a copy/paste fromlink on the first page of a Google search for "Jamarcus Russell scouting report":

"Is relatively raw as a passer and will need to work on his technique and throwing mechanics...Has made great strides in the accuracy department but there is still room for improvement...Numbers were inflated by the system he played in...Timed speed is solid but not special...High bust factor?...Does he love the game and is he commited to working to be the best he can be...Has minor durability concerns."
- http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/jamarcusrussell.html (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/qb/jamarcusrussell.html)

"Russell must work on cleaning up his delivery and accuracy as he jumps to the next level. He is still very raw as a passer and will likely struggle greatly early in his career at reading complicated NFL defenses. He has excelled in two seasons at LSU, but he did have outstanding weapons at his disposal. Russell probably has a high "bust factor" due to his lack of experience passing the ball in a pro style offense."
- http://www.warroomreport.com/draft/rankings/qb/russell.htm (http://www.warroomreport.com/draft/rankings/qb/russell.htm)


"DRAFT BUZZ: The Raiders returned from the NFL Scouting Combine less convinced that Louisiana State QB JaMarcus Russell is their man for the top pick and with more questions than before after taking a long look at him during the process. Publicly, the Raiders said nothing about Russell or any of the other players who attended the Combine. Privately, several Raider officials questioned Russell's work ethic, said they are concerned about his weight as a long-term issue, and cautioned against making Russell a lead-pipe cinch as the top pick."
- http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=184159 (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=184159)

"Weaknesses: Despite improving in this area, he still needs to improve his decision-making process. Lack the work ethic you would expect from an NFL QB. Accuracy is questionable at times. High risk-reward factor." - ESPN

""Russell is also known to make bad decision in big situations and is known to miss a lot of his receivers." - Former NFL scout on NFL Total Access

Geforce
03-25-2007, 03:14 PM
I know all about those quotes and pretty much agree with them. I'm a fan of Russell's but think he could have used another year at school. Sounds a lot like what they were saying about Vince Young last year.

I don't know about him not getting national coverage because that has more to do with the media and not what NFL GMs, coaches and scouts know about or think of him.

zach8111
03-25-2007, 09:18 PM
He's the concenses#1 on every board, looks like the real deal...Why not Bite the bullit and start (continue) rebuilding with the most important part of the puzzle?
the only reason that JR is on top is because he is the QB that fits best with oakland. If a different team was first, like miami, i believe quinn would be first cuz he fit into miamis offense better than russell.

Agent51
03-26-2007, 04:22 AM
the only reason that JR is on top is because he is the QB that fits best with oakland. If a different team was first, like miami, i believe quinn would be first cuz he fit into miamis offense better than russell.

No, Russell being on top of the Draft boards has nothing to do with Oakland needing him, that is why he is at the top of actual MOCKS. Draft boards assess the players themselves, not the players in relation to where they will go. Even if we were first, or a team that didn't even need a QB, like Indy or New England, Russell (even though I don't agree with that) would still be #1 because those boards rank the player themselves, not the need for that player.