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View Full Version : Dwayne Jarrett Blows It



Boomer
03-28-2007, 05:00 PM
4.67 and 4.63 forty at 6-4, 214.

VT Dolphan
03-28-2007, 05:03 PM
Boomer, do you think he'll be there for us at 40 now? And if so do we take him? Despite those slow times, the guy is a playmaker, something we could surely use.

FinAtic8480
03-28-2007, 05:04 PM
Mike Williams 2.0

Jaj
03-28-2007, 05:05 PM
Not really. More like Ernest Wilford 2.0.

Phishstix
03-28-2007, 05:19 PM
jarrett does have amazing hands though, he can catch anything. he's a bit of a tweener though- too small to play te and too slow to play wr in the league.

dougfinsfan72
03-28-2007, 05:22 PM
4.67 and 4.63 forty at 6-4, 214.

Are there any great WRs in the NFL that runs in the 4.6 range

2413fanphins
03-28-2007, 05:22 PM
I'd rather we have ernest p. worrell out there than dwayne jarrett.

yuck

PhinsRDbest
03-28-2007, 05:22 PM
Yikes

alen1
03-28-2007, 05:48 PM
Are there any great WRs in the NFL that runs in the 4.6 range

jerry rice ran a 4.7 and i believe t.o ran a 4.5 or 4.6

CANDolphan
03-28-2007, 05:50 PM
jerry rice ran a 4.7 and i believe t.o ran a 4.5 or 4.6


TO ran a 4.38 corrected to a 4.42 if I remember correctly

Spray Mucus
03-28-2007, 05:51 PM
What was Keyshawn Johnson 40 yard time?

I googled and got no info?

alen1
03-28-2007, 05:54 PM
TO ran a 4.38 corrected to a 4.42 if I remember correctly

really? wow i didnt think so .. i must be thinkn of someone else.sorry for my false info guys

CANDolphan
03-28-2007, 05:56 PM
really? wow i didnt think so .. i must be thinkn of someone else.sorry for my false info guys

You might not be wrong, I Mean so many times are reported... its just ridiculous! I went from the info I found on wikipedia.

Boomer
03-28-2007, 05:59 PM
Yep. A lot of good WR's ran slow times. Hell, the best of all time ran a high 4.6. But Jarrett's issue is seperation. You man up on him and he's done. At 4.67 he's going to struggle to do that consistently. He's not a big moves guy at the LOS.

Plus he had an extra month to train and he still shat the bed. Jarrett is notoriously lazy and his work ethic is very questionable. This won't help.

Stefins
03-28-2007, 06:12 PM
Lets hope he falls to US in the 2nd round!

Talk about a GREAT pic at #40

PhinfanUK
03-28-2007, 06:15 PM
Yep. A lot of good WR's ran slow times. Hell, the best of all time ran a high 4.6. But Jarrett's issue is seperation. You man up on him and he's done. At 4.67 he's going to struggle to do that consistently. He's not a big moves guy at the LOS.

Plus he had an extra month to train and he still shat the bed. Jarrett is notoriously lazy and his work ethic is very questionable. This won't help.

Isn't he very strong though? Shouldn't that aid him in gaining seperation with a bit of NFL coaching? Not saying USC coaching is inferior, but his technique would surely get more attention from an NFL coaching staff. He has great hands which is more than can be said for some of our receivers.

Finsfan1984
03-28-2007, 06:21 PM
We need playmakers on offense, plain and simple. Guys that can make BIG plays for us.

miamiron
03-28-2007, 06:30 PM
We need playmakers on offense, plain and simple. Guys that can make BIG plays for us.

41 touchdowns and he still had 1 more year of eligability

I'd say 41 tds = playmaker regardless of his 40 time

Finsfan1984
03-28-2007, 06:34 PM
41 touchdowns and he still had 1 more year of eligability

I'd say 41 tds = playmaker regardless of his 40 time
Didnt say he wasnt a playmaker, just was pointing out the obvious that we need playmakers. Some of the best playmakers in the league have been guys that didnt run great 40's in the pre draft workouts. I personally dont really know what to think of Jarrett. I liked what i saw in games, and i saw some run after the catch ability and all, but, his slow times do raise some concerns on that part of his game.

PhinsRDbest
03-28-2007, 06:35 PM
Whats with these lazy guys from SC. First Mike Williams, then Lendale White, now Jarrett. Watch Booty get his booty up to 260 next year.

Boomer
03-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Isn't he very strong though? Shouldn't that aid him in gaining seperation with a bit of NFL coaching? Not saying USC coaching is inferior, but his technique would surely get more attention from an NFL coaching staff. He has great hands which is more than can be said for some of our receivers.


I don't think he's that strong. I don't see a guy strong enough to beat that tough press coverage. Watch how guys play off him at USC. When a DB gets in is face, generally, he really struggles. Yes he made plays at USC and he has good hands, but I don't see it. He's not a great route runner and whilst he can go up and grab the ball, I'm not sure how succesful he'll be.

And as for us picking him at 40......you have to think how much longer you plan on playing Booker and what you think of Hagan. Don't see it.

Of course now, he'll be a Hall of Famer.

Danny
03-28-2007, 06:50 PM
Who cares? I want us to take Ginn with our top pick.

Ozzy rules!!

Frayser
03-28-2007, 06:51 PM
Ernest Wilford is right.

214? Was that the weight he played it? I thought he was a tad bigger but might be wrong.

Skeet84
03-28-2007, 06:52 PM
Jarret does catch alot of balls tho. However the Dolphins need speed and I hope we trade with Detroit and get Calvin Johnson

PhinsRDbest
03-28-2007, 06:52 PM
I wonder who will fall further now, Dwayne Jarrett or Sydney Rice?

miamiron
03-28-2007, 06:59 PM
Didnt say he wasnt a playmaker, just was pointing out the obvious that we need playmakers. Some of the best playmakers in the league have been guys that didnt run great 40's in the pre draft workouts. I personally dont really know what to think of Jarrett. I liked what i saw in games, and i saw some run after the catch ability and all, but, his slow times do raise some concerns on that part of his game.

THATS MY POINT he is a playmaker and i agree with you that is what we need.

YOU WANT CONCERNS...HOW ABOUT ONLY 15 TDS IN 3 YEARS BY TED GINN AS A WIDE OUT...Thats a concern when you consider the talent he will be playing against will be much better in the NFL.

Cant forget the 6 punt returns and 2 kickoff returns in 3 years
hardly the playmaker everyone is going ga-ga over plus his lack of red zone production(only 6 passes thrown to GINN in the red zone in 3 years)NOT TOUCHDOWNS ...6 PASSES THROWN HIS WAY IN THE RED ZONE

THIS SHOULD BE A CONCERN TO EVERYONE ON THE GINN BANDWAGON
LOVE FEST!!!

Stitches
03-28-2007, 07:00 PM
I wonder who will fall further now, Dwayne Jarrett or Sydney Rice?

Jarrett hands down.

Frayser
03-28-2007, 07:01 PM
Jarrett hands down.

Agreed. Rice at least has some upside. Jarrett has nowhere to go but down.

Stitches
03-28-2007, 07:01 PM
THATS MY POINT he is a playmaker and i agree with you that is what we need.

YOU WANT CONCERNS...HOW ABOUT ONLY 15 TDS IN 3 YEARS BY TED GINN AS A WIDE OUT...Thats a concern when you consider the talent he will be playing against will be much better in the NFL.

Cant forget the 6 punt returns and 2 kickoff returns in 3 years
hardly the playmaker everyone is going ga-ga over plus his lack of red zone production(only 6 passes thrown to GINN in the red zone in 3 years)NOT TOUCHDOWNS ...6 PASSES THROWN HIS WAY IN THE RED ZONE

THIS SHOULD BE A CONCERN TO EVERYONE ON THE GINN BANDWAGON
LOVE FEST!!!

How many rushing TDs for OSU in the red zone by comparison?

And we wouldn't be drafting Ginn to be a red zone threat.

Stitches
03-28-2007, 07:02 PM
Agreed. Rice at least has some upside. Jarrett has nowhere to go but down.

I shoulda said Jarret face down.

JT#1
03-28-2007, 07:07 PM
THATS MY POINT he is a playmaker and i agree with you that is what we need.

YOU WANT CONCERNS...HOW ABOUT ONLY 15 TDS IN 3 YEARS BY TED GINN AS A WIDE OUT...Thats a concern when you consider the talent he will be playing against will be much better in the NFL.

Cant forget the 6 punt returns and 2 kickoff returns in 3 years
hardly the playmaker everyone is going ga-ga over plus his lack of red zone production(only 6 passes thrown to GINN in the red zone in 3 years)NOT TOUCHDOWNS ...6 PASSES THROWN HIS WAY IN THE RED ZONE

THIS SHOULD BE A CONCERN TO EVERYONE ON THE GINN BANDWAGON
LOVE FEST!!!

You do know Ginn was a cornerback going into college right? He had little knowledge of the WR position when he began playingso his first couple seasons he had to learn a completly new position. Ginn probly has the most potential as far as how good he can be, if a WR coach can teach him to run routes, he'd be a menace.

RenoFinFan
03-28-2007, 08:04 PM
THATS MY POINT he is a playmaker and i agree with you that is what we need.

YOU WANT CONCERNS...HOW ABOUT ONLY 15 TDS IN 3 YEARS BY TED GINN AS A WIDE OUT...Thats a concern when you consider the talent he will be playing against will be much better in the NFL.

Cant forget the 6 punt returns and 2 kickoff returns in 3 years
hardly the playmaker everyone is going ga-ga over plus his lack of red zone production(only 6 passes thrown to GINN in the red zone in 3 years)NOT TOUCHDOWNS ...6 PASSES THROWN HIS WAY IN THE RED ZONE

THIS SHOULD BE A CONCERN TO EVERYONE ON THE GINN BANDWAGON
LOVE FEST!!!
:lol: C'mon...Jarrett's problem is he doesn't get separation or is strong enough to get off the line of scrimmage. There is no way he is going to make it in the NFL. He will get shut down. Don't you know anything about football? Football is all about your time in the 40!

For example, against Texas in the championship game following the 2005 season against a secondary that included Michael Huff, Aaron Ross, Tarell Brown, Cedric Griffin, and Michael Griffin he was only able to get 10 catches 122 yards 1 TD. Then against Michigan in the Rose Bowl this past year when he went up against a secondary that included the top CB prospect in this year's draft (Leon Hall) he only had 11 catches 205 yards 2 TD.

What are you thinking? Clearly, if Ginn was playing he would have had 20 catches 500 yards and 7 TD "EACH GAME"...of course, that is in addition to his 3 punt returns for TD and 2 kickoff returns for TD. Oh yeah, these numbers would be much better but Ginn played CB in high school.

miamiron
03-28-2007, 08:19 PM
:lol: C'mon...Jarrett's problem is he doesn't get separation or is strong enough to get off the line of scrimmage. There is no way he is going to make it in the NFL. He will get shut down. Don't you know anything about football? Football is all about your time in the 40!

For example, against Texas in the championship game following the 2005 season against a secondary that included Michael Huff, Aaron Ross, Tarell Brown, Cedric Griffin, and Michael Griffin he was only able to get 10 catches 122 yards 1 TD. Then against Michigan in the Rose Bowl this past year when he went up against a secondary that included the top CB prospect in this year's draft (Leon Hall) he only had 11 catches 205 yards 2 TD.

What are you thinking? Clearly, if Ginn was playing he would have had 20 catches 500 yards and 7 TD "EACH GAME"...of course, that is in addition to his 3 punt returns for TD and 2 kickoff returns for TD. Oh yeah, these numbers would be much better but Ginn played CB in high school.

DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL SON?

FOOTBALL IS ALL ABOUT YOUR 40 TIME AS FAR AS YOUR CONCERNED

I HAVE TWO WORDS FOR YOU

JERRY RICE

You may not be old enough to remember him!!

Frayser
03-28-2007, 08:21 PM
DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL SON?

FOOTBALL IS ALL ABOUT YOUR 40 TIME AS FAR AS YOUR CONCERNED

I HAVE TWO WORDS FOR YOU

JERRY RICE

You may not be old enough to remember him!!

I think he was being sarcastic about the 40 time.

Nappy Roots
03-28-2007, 08:22 PM
DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL SON?

FOOTBALL IS ALL ABOUT YOUR 40 TIME AS FAR AS YOUR CONCERNED

I HAVE TWO WORDS FOR YOU

JERRY RICE

You may not be old enough to remember him!!



:grouplaug

JT#1
03-28-2007, 09:34 PM
DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL SON?

FOOTBALL IS ALL ABOUT YOUR 40 TIME AS FAR AS YOUR CONCERNED

I HAVE TWO WORDS FOR YOU

JERRY RICE

You may not be old enough to remember him!!
:goof: seriously though the differance between Rice and Dwayne, is Rice knew how to get seperation agianst press coverages, It has been proven that dwayne cannot get get any seperation if his man is in his face

Stitches
03-28-2007, 09:37 PM
You should look at Jarrett's cone and shuttle drills too. The 40 isn't the only thing that hurts him.


Not to mention, you say Jerry Rice, but players weren't as fast when he came out, and JR had one of the best work ethics to boot. DJ has nowhere near the conditioning or drive that Rice had.

Geforce
03-28-2007, 09:59 PM
You should look at Jarrett's cone and shuttle drills too. The 40 isn't the only thing that hurts him.


Not to mention, you say Jerry Rice, but players weren't as fast when he came out, and JR had one of the best work ethics to boot. DJ has nowhere near the conditioning or drive that Rice had.

From Yahoo Sports
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/nfl_experts/post/Jarrett-s-pro-day-workout;_ylt=Ai8_AUt7Ys63Tgawpv64MaFDubYF?urn=nfl,27734


USC wide receiver Dwayne Jarrett (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/players/116652) ran between 4.60 and 4.65 in the 40-yard dash during USC's pro day on Wednesday...Jarrett also had a 36.5-inch vertical, 4.18 short shuttle, 7.22 3-cone and 10'1" broad jump. Jarrett's times were recorded on an outdoor FieldTurf surface and most of the scouts in attendance seemed to feel as if his overall workout was solid and should not have much effect either way on his final draft grade.

PSU Cane
03-28-2007, 10:19 PM
The one player that did shut down Jarrett by jamming him at the line and being physical was Chris Houston. He totally dominated Jarrett off the ball, not allowing any separation. If Jarrett does not improve on that, he will not amount to anything but a #2 or #3 possession receiver in the league. That being said, he does have the skills, moreso than Mike Williams did. Jarrett is just a much better all around player.

As for the comment on the Texas defense, i think as individuals the Texas kids are extremely talented athletically. But as a unit of "football players" at times last year, they were horrible. They gave up 323 yards passing to Kansas State, 320 yards passing to Baylor, 302 yards passing to Nebraska, and 519 yards passing to Texas Tech. For the season they gave up about 240 yards passing a game. For a team with a secondary getting such high praise for studs in their secondary, that is a lot of yards.

daniel3
03-28-2007, 10:51 PM
You don't even have to go to Jerry Rice. Marquis Colston ran like a 4.55 and that was enough to land him in the late 7th round even though he had a successful shrine game and college career (then again he was from a small school so that sorta had a lot to do with it :/).

TexanPhinatic
03-28-2007, 10:52 PM
The one player that did shut down Jarrett by jamming him at the line and being physical was Chris Houston. He totally dominated Jarrett off the ball, not allowing any separation. If Jarrett does not improve on that, he will not amount to anything but a #2 or #3 possession receiver in the league. That being said, he does have the skills, moreso than Mike Williams did. Jarrett is just a much better all around player.

As for the comment on the Texas defense, i think as individuals the Texas kids are extremely talented athletically. But as a unit of "football players" at times last year, they were horrible. They gave up 323 yards passing to Kansas State, 320 yards passing to Baylor, 302 yards passing to Nebraska, and 519 yards passing to Texas Tech. For the season they gave up about 240 yards passing a game. For a team with a secondary getting such high praise for studs in their secondary, that is a lot of yards.

Thank you, I was wondering when someone would post Jarrett v. Houston. I mean, Houston owned Jarrett and totally exposed him like no other reciever was exposed last year.

And as for Ginn, there are 40s and then there are 40s. Ginn is the latter. World class speed is not just fast, its insane. Barry Sanders/Dion Sanders/Bo Jackson type stuff. And not just that, but the ability to go from still to full speed in a step, make insane cuts and breaks doing it, and still be able to catch the football.

Ginn is NOT a big redzone target, he is a classic flanker, a burner, a field stretcher. The reason OSU didnt throw to him much in the redzone was 1)OSU tends to run the ball in the redzone 2)Ginn was drawing double teams allowing the other recievers to get open.

Sorry, Jarrett is overrated. Pedestrian speed, lack of seperation, extreme vulnerability to the press. No thanks. Think of a slower but better handed Chambers, thats what we need :rolleyes: He is about my least favorite receiver out of the first/second round prospects.

badbutt316
03-28-2007, 10:57 PM
JJ stokes or Mike Williams version 2, take your pick. Big Tall Slow WR.

Nappy Roots
03-28-2007, 11:03 PM
Thank you, I was wondering when someone would post Jarrett v. Houston.



you serious? you must of not read any threads on Jarrett. that match up gets brought up 100 times in every jarrett thread and including the Tedd Ginn one.

every WR has a game where hes shut down.

badbutt316
03-28-2007, 11:10 PM
And as for Ginn, there are 40s and then there are 40s. Ginn is the latter. World class speed is not just fast, its insane. Barry Sanders/Dion Sanders/Bo Jackson type stuff. And not just that, but the ability to go from still to full speed in a step, make insane cuts and breaks doing it, and still be able to catch the football.

Ginn is NOT a big redzone target, he is a classic flanker, a burner, a field stretcher. The reason OSU didnt throw to him much in the redzone was 1)OSU tends to run the ball in the redzone 2)Ginn was drawing double teams allowing the other recievers to get open.


If Ginn has a knock it would have to be his hands. He doesnt possess good hands comming out of college, but it doesnt mean he cant develope them. Right now hes basically just a kick returner. And if youve watched any of his TDs there mostly straight line runs, he doesnt make any "insane" cuts like a reggie bush, he just darts in a line and no one catches him. His speed is without a doubt his best attribute but he still hasnt registered a 40 time since injuring his foot in the championship game. I see Ginn more as a dante hall just minus the "insane" cuts that dante makes. He will never be a good WR, but will excel at punt/kick returns. He doesnt run routes well except those that are go routes and doesnt possess a good set of hands.

Dolfan11
03-28-2007, 11:10 PM
Anquan Boldin ran a 4.72 at the combine. I think Jarrett is a physicaly dominant WR. Speed isn't his game. I think him dropping to the second round would be great considering we don't draft a WR prior to him.

4.3 guys that year? Tyron Calico, Kevin Curtis, Bethel Johnson, just to name a few from a quick search.

badbutt316
03-28-2007, 11:16 PM
Anquan Boldin ran a 4.72 at the combine. I think Jarrett is a physicaly dominant WR. Speed isn't his game. I think him dropping to the second round would be great considering we don't draft a WR prior to him.

4.3 guys that year? Tyron Calico, Kevin Curtis, Bethel Johnson, just to name a few from a quick search.

Boldin and Jarret are 2 completely different recievers in my opinion. Boldin is a run after the catch guy which Jarret really isnt. Jarret doesnt maul over CBs, he cant even seperate from one. Jarret is 6-5 210 and Boldin is 6-1 230. Boldin consistently breaks tackles which I have not seen from Jarret nor I think he can do once hes a pro

JT#1
03-28-2007, 11:25 PM
He doesnt run routes well except those that are go routes and doesnt possess a good set of hands.
He might never be a Hines Ward, but you can teach a guy how to run routes well if u have a half decent WR coach

SR 7
03-28-2007, 11:27 PM
jerry rice ran a 4.7 and i believe t.o ran a 4.5 or 4.6

CJ ran a 4.6

SR 7
03-28-2007, 11:28 PM
Yep. A lot of good WR's ran slow times. Hell, the best of all time ran a high 4.6. But Jarrett's issue is seperation. You man up on him and he's done. At 4.67 he's going to struggle to do that consistently. He's not a big moves guy at the LOS.

Plus he had an extra month to train and he still shat the bed. Jarrett is notoriously lazy and his work ethic is very questionable. This won't help.

sounds like williams to me.

JT#1
03-28-2007, 11:30 PM
CJ ran a 4.6
Ocho Cinco??

Nappy Roots
03-28-2007, 11:31 PM
Boldin and Jarret are 2 completely different recievers in my opinion. Boldin is a run after the catch guy which Jarret really isnt. Jarret doesnt maul over CBs, he cant even seperate from one. Jarret is 6-5 210 and Boldin is 6-1 230. Boldin consistently breaks tackles which I have not seen from Jarret nor I think he can do once hes a pro



agreed, but what do you think the likes of Orande Gasdsen ran? im sure keyshawn ran in the 4.6s. specially late in his career. there are plenty of WRs that run the 4.6 range in the NFL. marques colston ran in the high 4.5s. WRs that know how to use their body and have great hands cant succeed in the NFL at a slow speed. it gets proved over and over again. ****, chad johnson ran in the 4.5s coming out, and hes considered a deep threat

Tureo
03-28-2007, 11:58 PM
4.67 and 4.63 forty at 6-4, 214.
I like Jarrett but this only means he willbe there in the 2nd rd and some team will take him b4 our pick allowing a great OL prospect to fall in our laps. That would be ideal. I like Jarrett but I realize we need speed on offense otherwise I would look at him as a possibility in rd 2.

Geforce
03-29-2007, 12:52 AM
agreed, but what do you think the likes of Orande Gasdsen ran? im sure keyshawn ran in the 4.6s. specially late in his career. there are plenty of WRs that run the 4.6 range in the NFL. marques colston ran in the high 4.5s. WRs that know how to use their body and have great hands cant succeed in the NFL at a slow speed. it gets proved over and over again. ****, chad johnson ran in the 4.5s coming out, and hes considered a deep threat

It's true Chad Johnson ran a slow time at the combine and that's why his draft stock fell. However, Bengals WRs coach, Steve Mooshagian, said he timed Johnson in a series of 4 40s at 4.36, 4.38, 4.42 and 4.43.

Regan21286
03-29-2007, 01:07 AM
Ocho Cinco??

That very one.

Looks like Jarrett's stock is dropping fast. That said, he could be a nice bargain as a possession WR for use in jump-ball end zone situations in the late 2nd or 3rd round. And I'm sure with a little coaching up, he can do better with separation.

#1 Fan
03-29-2007, 01:11 AM
i'd be really happy with him in the second round.

JT#1
03-29-2007, 01:19 AM
i'd be really happy with him in the second round.
no way he is gonna drop THAT far at the very least i think hes gonna be late 1st

Clumpy
03-29-2007, 01:46 AM
Of course now, he'll be a Hall of Famer


:sidelol:

With the 43rd pick, the Buffalo Bills select.....

LightsOut
03-29-2007, 02:27 AM
mike williams ran his 40 faster than dwayne jarrett.

not that speed is everything but jarrett also lacks quickness and he's not very strong so he will have problems getting off the line against physical CB's (as he did with chris houston). this is why keyshawn said he wasn't ready and should stay in school.

btw, boldin ran hurt at the combine. he ran 4.45 at his proday.

fishypete
03-29-2007, 03:02 AM
I rather have Olsen that ran a 4.5 and weighs more than Jarrett.

dominizzo
03-29-2007, 04:21 AM
WOOW JArrett is slipping

Boomer
03-29-2007, 06:01 AM
:Then against Michigan in the Rose Bowl this past year when he went up against a secondary that included the top CB prospect in this year's draft (Leon Hall) he only had 11 catches 205 yards 2 TD.




Clearly you didn't watch that game or you would have know that they only matched up sparingly throughout the contest.

As for the Texas game, flip it on again and see how they played press on him.

Oh no.

Wait.

They didn't.

Boomer
03-29-2007, 06:06 AM
:goof: seriously though the differance between Rice and Dwayne, is Rice knew how to get seperation agianst press coverages, It has been proven that dwayne cannot get get any seperation if his man is in his face


The difference is that Jerry Rice was one of the finest route runners in history, had incredible hips, played faster than he timed - Jarrett doesn't play faster - and was very strong, especially in his hands. Rice as a child spent summer after summer working with his father, catching bricks. His hand strength and thus his ability at the line of scrimmage, was immense. And if all that wasn't enough, he was arguably the hardest working player off the field of the modern era. Some of those workouts that he and Roger Craig used to do in the hills around San Fran are the stuff of legend.

jlfin
03-29-2007, 06:08 AM
41 touchdowns and he still had 1 more year of eligability

I'd say 41 tds = playmaker regardless of his 40 time


So what? That was in college. Hagan set receiving records in the PAC 10 and some of you think he's a bust already and are quick to discount his college career.

Boomer
03-29-2007, 06:09 AM
So what? That was in college. Hagan set receiving records in the PAC 10 and some of you think he's a bust already and are quick to discount his college career.

Mate, common sense isn't allowed in the non pay forums. You should know that.

zonk4ever
03-29-2007, 06:44 AM
Dwayne Jarrett = Oronde Gadsden.

PublixSubsRule
03-29-2007, 07:43 AM
How many rushing TDs for OSU in the red zone by comparison?

And we wouldn't be drafting Ginn to be a red zone threat.

No, your right we wouldn't want anyone to score us touchdowns in the red zone. Then why would we be drafting Ginn? because he can return kicks... who cares our last kick returner wasn't even drafted and was more then ok.

I say we draft Jarrett in the second round, and bring back a player like O. Gadsden. Except Jarrett is a lot faster!!!

By the way what were Jarrett's other numbers like 3 cone drill, Vertical, 10 yard dash. For a wide out like jarrett you can get by with a slow 40 if you have good acceleration as measured by the 3 cone drill and also if you can totally out jump any defender.

Boomer
03-29-2007, 08:09 AM
No, your right we wouldn't want anyone to score us touchdowns in the red zone. Then why would we be drafting Ginn? because he can return kicks... who cares our last kick returner wasn't even drafted and was more then ok.

I say we draft Jarrett in the second round, and bring back a player like O. Gadsden. Except Jarrett is a lot faster!!!

By the way what were Jarrett's other numbers like 3 cone drill, Vertical, 10 yard dash. For a wide out like jarrett you can get by with a slow 40 if you have good acceleration as measured by the 3 cone drill and also if you can totally out jump any defender.


Why draft Jarrett, a split end, when you already have 2 on the roster?

His 3 cone was very slow, slower than Doug Free's, who is 100lbs heavier. The vertical was 37.5

Motion
03-29-2007, 08:32 AM
:chuckle: Called this one.

LouPhinFan
03-29-2007, 08:53 AM
It sounds like this guy should be a TE not a WR. Doesn't he have weight issue too?

Motion
03-29-2007, 08:57 AM
It sounds like this guy should be a TE not a WR. Doesn't he have weight issue too?

:yes: And a lazy issue.

2413fanphins
03-29-2007, 09:02 AM
:yes: And a lazy issue.



If I had to pick between jarrett and fat albert it would be fatty fatty boombalatty every time


HEY HEY HEY


jarrett had better not be in our plans

Kdawg954
03-29-2007, 09:09 AM
Jarrett does not fit our plans, he is too slow, we need a guy w/ speed.

Jovu
03-29-2007, 09:16 AM
http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/03/DJPRO_200JPG-1.jpg

I don't think he's that strong. I don't see a guy strong enough to beat that tough press coverage. Watch how guys play off him at USC. When a DB gets in is face, generally, he really struggles. Yes he made plays at USC and he has good hands, but I don't see it. He's not a great route runner and whilst he can go up and grab the ball, I'm not sure how succesful he'll be.


Actually Jarrett has pretty good strength as you can see from this picture. Jarrett’s problems with press coverage are not strength related; it rather has a lot to do with hand technique. USC coaches seemed to have been more focused on putting him in motion to create mismatches than instructing him on how to beat press man coverage he rarely faced. While he will always lack that explosive burst off the line... I think he can be coached up on the proper use of hands.

What is interesting is how Dwayne Jarrett fits right in with how Cam Cameron prefers his wide receivers big and physical with a lot of timing routes to them. I can see plenty of fade routes in the back of the end zone (with Jarrett and his long arms and leaping ability) which we never seemed to run in 2006. And Jarrett has really improved his blocking which is something the Dolphins have looked for in recent years in its starting wide receivers. And no one can question his toughness going over the middle and his great ball security.

But he doesn't have the speed to separate against NFL cornerbacks or polished routes for that matter one might think. But Jarrett knows what his game is. Get him at the Z position or in the slot in motion and he can be deadly. Why? Because of not only his size but the way he uses it with some outstanding body control. It is his best trait next to his hands. It is the third way to get separation at any level of the game. And once Jarrett has the ball he is a load to tackle... partly why he has a higher career YPC than Ted Ginn.

I do not have Jarrett as a high to mid first round draft choice in value. But if we don't get Ginn, and he is there at 40 you should pull the trigger on him.

LouPhinFan
03-29-2007, 09:19 AM
:yes: And a lazy issue.

Isn't it funny how weight issues and lazy issues go hand in hand?

Boomer
03-29-2007, 09:19 AM
http://vmedia.rivals.com/IMAGES/Player/photo/DJPRO_200.JPG



Actually Jarrett has pretty good strength as you can see from this picture. .

That shows me that Jarrett has big guns. Doesn't mean he's strong. He's not fucntionally football strong.

As for featuring in Miami's system, where do you play him? We're set at split end, the best position for Chambers is the slot and we need a flanker. Jarrett isn't a flanker.

Boomer
03-29-2007, 09:30 AM
It sounds like this guy should be a TE not a WR. Doesn't he have weight issue too?


I don't think he has a weight issue at all. He's 214lbs at 6'4. That's not an issue for me at all. He also doesn't have a hands issue or a body control issue. He can play, no doubt about it, but what I see on tape over and over, worries me. You can't deny the body of work - his TD ratio is excellent, but it has to be looked at in context.

By saying, as people have, that he "owned" Leon Hall, just because he had a big game against Michigan, is wrong.

BlueFin
03-29-2007, 09:55 AM
I don't think he has a weight issue at all. He's 214lbs at 6'4. That's not an issue for me at all. He also doesn't have a hands issue or a body control issue. He can play, no doubt about it, but what I see on tape over and over, worries me. You can't deny the body of work - his TD ratio is excellent, but it has to be looked at in context.

By saying, as people have, that he "owned" Leon Hall, just because he had a big game against Michigan, is wrong.

I must admit though, that game worries me about Leon Hall.

The guys on Sirius NFL radio have had Leon on a few times that I have caught, and the first thing that always gets brought up was that game and how bad he looked versus Dwayne Jarrett, of which he does not deny having a bad game, however, he seems to hint at the real problem being a more strategic one in how they lined up and the gameplan they were using on how to stop USC, he seemed to blame the DC.

LouPhinFan
03-29-2007, 09:57 AM
I don't think he has a weight issue at all. He's 214lbs at 6'4. That's not an issue for me at all.


I should clarify. By weight issue I meant that I heard his weight fluctuates up and down. Not that he's heavy right now. I don't have a problem with a 6'4", 214LBS WR. Now if he was 5'9" and weighed that much that would be different...

Dolfan11
03-29-2007, 10:31 AM
Boldin and Jarret are 2 completely different recievers in my opinion. Boldin is a run after the catch guy which Jarret really isnt. Jarret doesnt maul over CBs, he cant even seperate from one. Jarret is 6-5 210 and Boldin is 6-1 230. Boldin consistently breaks tackles which I have not seen from Jarret nor I think he can do once hes a pro

Understood. Watch some highlight clips of Jarrett and you're going to tell me that on the field, when it counts the most, he doesn't run away from the defense after he catches the ball? This particular clip I found doesn't show that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUU_A9ZTmyk

Sure he ran a slow 40, but that doesn't take away his route running ability and catching skills. Point is, I think if he's there at 40 and we haven't taken a WR, I say we snatch him up.

Crowder52
03-29-2007, 10:41 AM
What's the big deal here fellas? I think anyone who watched college football this past year knew Jarrett wasn't that fast and this was the time range he was expected to run in. I don't think anyone expected him to run a 4.4, so let's not pretend this is a big deal.

Boomer
03-29-2007, 11:12 AM
I must admit though, that game worries me about Leon Hall.

The guys on Sirius NFL radio have had Leon on a few times that I have caught, and the first thing that always gets brought up was that game and how bad he looked versus Dwayne Jarrett, of which he does not deny having a bad game, however, he seems to hint at the real problem being a more strategic one in how they lined up and the gameplan they were using on how to stop USC, he seemed to blame the DC.

I think Hall generally, had a very disappointing senior season, considering the body of work previous to that. I don't think anyone covered themselves in glory in that Michigan secondary in that game and I think perhaps Hall bore the brunt of that because of his talent, fairly or unfairly. But I think people saying "yeah he was rubbish, Jarrett had a ton of catches and yards on Hall" is just patently wrong.

Unfortunately there's a number of people on the boards who like to spew invectorate around about players based on things that they're heard other people say, rather than judge it for themselves.

Phinsdude
03-29-2007, 11:32 AM
Anquan Boldin ran a 4.72 at the combine. I think Jarrett is a physicaly dominant WR. Speed isn't his game. I think him dropping to the second round would be great considering we don't draft a WR prior to him.

4.3 guys that year? Tyron Calico, Kevin Curtis, Bethel Johnson, just to name a few from a quick search.


After reading the thread, I have to give this post the award for best actual fact. I remember that draft, the Eddie Moore draft as I like to call it. Or when Wanns made the comment a few days before, a 2nd round pick next year is a third round pick this year. This is when he traded our second to the Pats for their third. Taylor Whitley and Wade Smith worked wonders for us. Anyway, Kelley Washington was also drafted that year I believe. Anquan Bolding was a 1st round talent, dropped to the second, and look at him now. He has plenty of seperation. If you watch Jarrett against Leon Hall, he shows great game speed. Speed is not everything. For all you Wes Welker fans, there's a guy with absolutely no break away speed, and look at how he has done so far after being undrafted. If we get a chance in the second round for Jarrett, that would be awesome, and we should take it. Derek Hagan looked lost last year, and I feel this is a great top part of the draft wide receiver class. I am not saying #9 is where to take a WR, because I only believe CJ is worth a top ten pick, I believe he's the #1 player. With guys like Rice, Ginn, Meachem, Steve Smith, Dwayne Jarrett, Bowe, all are worthy of a 2nd round pick if they fall. I think Meachem is going to be a great player, the only thing that scares me if our last two Tennessee picks, ouch. Let's just hope whoever we draft, they don't go off to Atlanta and buy mansions while training camp is going on. What a punk. We need more picks like Ronnie Brown and Channing Crowder. Great players, classy guys, great team players.

Philter25
03-29-2007, 01:07 PM
HEY BOOMER!

Whats up man! Why dont you give everyone a little lesson on what happened with the WR situation during the 2001 draft. Wasnt there an all pro now who ran 2 tenths of a second slower than thought at the combine so teams took David Terrell, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner, and Freddie Mitchell ahead of him....... and wasnt Freddie Mitchell JUMPING up draft boards after his excellent workout and his 4.4 40. I hear FredEx makes a mean Whopper Jr.

Im thinking of the #36 pick in the draft.... his slower 40 time didnt seem to screw Cincy in the long run, eh?

Geforce
03-29-2007, 01:26 PM
HEY BOOMER!

Whats up man! Why dont you give everyone a little lesson on what happened with the WR situation during the 2001 draft. Wasnt there an all pro now who ran 2 tenths of a second slower than thought at the combine so teams took David Terrell, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner, and Freddie Mitchell ahead of him....... and wasnt Freddie Mitchell JUMPING up draft boards after his excellent workout and his 4.4 40. I hear FredEx makes a mean Whopper Jr.

Im thinking of the #36 pick in the draft.... his slower 40 time didnt seem to screw Cincy in the long run, eh?

As I wrote earlier in this thread. Steve Mooshagian the Cincinnati Bengals WRs coach said he timed Chad Johnson in a series of 40s at 4.36, 4.38, 4.41 and 4.42.

These times confirmed what they saw of him on tape.

Crowder52
03-29-2007, 01:39 PM
As I wrote earlier in this thread. Steve Mooshagian the Cincinnati Bengals WRs coach said he timed Chad Johnson in a series of 40s at 4.36, 4.38, 4.41 and 4.42.

These times confirmed what they saw of him on tape.

So one coach had him in the 4.3's and nearly every other scout in the entire combine had him in the 4.6 range? What does that prove about anything, unless you are trying to show that 40 times are unreliable, which would only help Jarrett's case.

Geforce
03-29-2007, 01:50 PM
So one coach had him in the 4.3's and nearly every other scout in the entire combine had him in the 4.6 range? What does that prove about anything, unless you are trying to show that 40 times are unreliable, which would only help Jarrett's case.

The one coach who timed Johnson in the 4.3s coaches on the one team that drafted him. Chad's time also confirmed what they saw on tape.

Players often run slower 40 times at the combine for various reasons. They wore the wrong shoes or they were overwhelmed by the experience. Put them in more relaxed environment, such as Reggie Nelson this year, and their times improves dramatically.

Dwayne Jarrett has been compared, somewhat inaccurately IMO, to former USC WR Mike Williams who dominated the Pac-10 DBs in much the same way Jarrett did. When Williams ran in the 4.6s at his Pro Day and subsequently lack of success in the NFL, people automatically thinks the same of Jarrett. This is why his somewhat slow 40 time hurts him.

Stitches
03-29-2007, 02:25 PM
What's the big deal here fellas? I think anyone who watched college football this past year knew Jarrett wasn't that fast and this was the time range he was expected to run in. I don't think anyone expected him to run a 4.4, so let's not pretend this is a big deal.


Jarrett months ago said he would run in the 4.4s though, and he even got an extra month to prepare from the combine.

Crowder52
03-29-2007, 02:36 PM
Jarrett months ago said he would run in the 4.4s though, and he even got an extra month to prepare from the combine.

Well obviously the players tend to exaggerate their own times. But did any scouts really expect him to run a 4.4? I doubt it. I figured him for the mid 4.6's and I'm just a casual fan. He's obviously not a burner, that's not his game.

Motion
03-29-2007, 02:37 PM
What's the big deal here fellas? I think anyone who watched college football this past year knew Jarrett wasn't that fast and this was the time range he was expected to run in. I don't think anyone expected him to run a 4.4, so let's not pretend this is a big deal.

Actually, he was supposedly telling all the scouts at the combine that he would.


EDIT--Stitches beat me too it :D

Stitches
03-29-2007, 02:45 PM
Well obviously the players tend to exaggerate their own times. But did any scouts really expect him to run a 4.4? I doubt it. I figured him for the mid 4.6's and I'm just a casual fan. He's obviously not a burner, that's not his game.

I'm certain many scouts expected him to run at least as well as Dwayne Bowe and Sidney Rice, considering the extra time he had and all his talk.

The results further back up the claims about his poor work ethic.

alen1
03-29-2007, 03:21 PM
i wouldnt mind jarret in the second round.I think despite his 40 time.... he has football speed b/c as u watch the games, he runs away from people as Dolfan11 and Boomer said.He ran away from the notre dame and michigan defense this past year.He catches everything his way and people say he has weight issues...... hes freakn 214 pounds .... calvin johnson is 239 ..he might be lazy but hes not overweight.

Stitches
03-29-2007, 03:26 PM
i wouldnt mind jarret in the second round.I think despite his 40 time.... he has football speed b/c as u watch the games, he runs away from people as Dolfan11 and Boomer said.He ran away from the notre dame and michigan defense this past year.He catches everything his way and people say he has weight issues...... hes freakn 214 pounds .... calvin johnson is 239 ..he might be lazy but hes not overweight.

Jarrett doesn't pose good value for us at #40. Maybe #60, but nowhere before that should he even be in consideration. We need a flanker. We have two split ends, and people capable of the slot already.

Lab3003
03-29-2007, 03:32 PM
I think Hall generally, had a very disappointing senior season, considering the body of work previous to that. I don't think anyone covered themselves in glory in that Michigan secondary in that game and I think perhaps Hall bore the brunt of that because of his talent, fairly or unfairly. But I think people saying "yeah he was rubbish, Jarrett had a ton of catches and yards on Hall" is just patently wrong.

Unfortunately there's a number of people on the boards who like to spew invectorate around about players based on things that they're heard other people say, rather than judge it for themselves.

Is that a word? If it is it's a great word? What does it mean?

wonderl33t
03-29-2007, 03:35 PM
I don't think he's that strong. I don't see a guy strong enough to beat that tough press coverage. Watch how guys play off him at USC. When a DB gets in is face, generally, he really struggles

this is true. Fresno State shut him down easily in their game by pressing WRs. Of course Bush went wild but SC's WRs were awful in that game because of the defensive scheme

Stitches
03-29-2007, 03:40 PM
Is that a word? If it is it's a great word? What does it mean?


1. Invector (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Invector) http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (javascript:void(0)) 1 thumb up http://www.finheaven.com/clear.gif (javascript:void(0))
Invector a website which contains humor , downloads and ringtones and more
Converstation
A : Yo dude, Where can i get free ringtones?
B : Duh!! Invector.US



:hmmm:

Crowder52
03-29-2007, 04:08 PM
Actually, he was supposedly telling all the scouts at the combine that he would.


EDIT--Stitches beat me too it :D

I'm sure he did tell the scouts that, but I wonder who would actually believe him? Like I said, I've had him pegged as a 4.6 guy for a while now and I'm sure the scouts know more than I do. I don't think they altered they expectations based on Jarrett's rhetoric.

Boomer
03-29-2007, 04:46 PM
After reading the thread, I have to give this post the award for best actual fact. I remember that draft, the Eddie Moore draft as I like to call it. Or when Wanns made the comment a few days before, a 2nd round pick next year is a third round pick this year. This is when he traded our second to the Pats for their third. Taylor Whitley and Wade Smith worked wonders for us. Anyway, Kelley Washington was also drafted that year I believe. Anquan Bolding was a 1st round talent, dropped to the second, and look at him now. He has plenty of seperation. If you watch Jarrett against Leon Hall, he shows great game speed. Speed is not everything. For all you Wes Welker fans, there's a guy with absolutely no break away speed, and look at how he has done so far after being undrafted. If we get a chance in the second round for Jarrett, that would be awesome, and we should take it. Derek Hagan looked lost last year, and I feel this is a great top part of the draft wide receiver class. I am not saying #9 is where to take a WR, because I only believe CJ is worth a top ten pick, I believe he's the #1 player. With guys like Rice, Ginn, Meachem, Steve Smith, Dwayne Jarrett, Bowe, all are worthy of a 2nd round pick if they fall. I think Meachem is going to be a great player, the only thing that scares me if our last two Tennessee picks, ouch. Let's just hope whoever we draft, they don't go off to Atlanta and buy mansions while training camp is going on. What a punk. We need more picks like Ronnie Brown and Channing Crowder. Great players, classy guys, great team players.

Mate, Boldin was never a first round talent. He was a guy who'd flitted back and forth from QB to WR. His seperation comes from disciplined route running, strength to defeat the press and very good break quickness.

Welker is the same. First of all, a slot guy who tends to end up in a match-up that a team likes and similarly, he's quick and he's disciplined. So I don't get your point.

So what you're advocating is that because Hagan struggled some last year, we should replace him? I bet the Bills wished they'd done that when Moulds struggled as a rookie. And the Steelers fans when Polamalu did the same, etc.

But clearly you are advocating that if a player doesn't show up in year 1. he's a bust, hence your comment about UT players, referring to Jason Allen.

And Ronnie and Crowder 'great' players?? Please. There is one 'great' running back in the NFL and that's Tomlinson.

Boomer
03-29-2007, 04:49 PM
HEY BOOMER!

Whats up man! Why dont you give everyone a little lesson on what happened with the WR situation during the 2001 draft. Wasnt there an all pro now who ran 2 tenths of a second slower than thought at the combine so teams took David Terrell, Koren Robinson, Rod Gardner, and Freddie Mitchell ahead of him....... and wasnt Freddie Mitchell JUMPING up draft boards after his excellent workout and his 4.4 40. I hear FredEx makes a mean Whopper Jr.

Im thinking of the #36 pick in the draft.... his slower 40 time didnt seem to screw Cincy in the long run, eh?


Who then ran 4.38's in his workout with the Bengals, so, as usual, I'm not sure of your point.

Clearly you musn't have read the thread if you think my only concern is just his speed. But then knowing you as I do, that doesn't surprise me.

DRNEWBEE
03-29-2007, 06:20 PM
He may be lazy, He may be a jerk, but I've seen the game tape. He can play. Period Point Blank End of Story.

ChambersWI
03-29-2007, 06:48 PM
DJ still might be a late first, but his numbers aren't shocking. I don't see him beig the next Mike Williams though. Jarrett doesn't have a great work ethic, but he is not as bad as Williams is/was.

It also doesn't help Jarrett that CJ posted better numbers than expected, and guys like Meachum and Bowe watch their stock rise by the minute it seems (Ginn is hard to predict though because he hasn't worked out, but he will go round 1, Rice is also hard to predict because of how raw he is).

I think the reason so many people are shocked though is most of ya'll had him as an option at 9.

Stitches
03-29-2007, 06:51 PM
DJ still might be a late first, but his numbers aren't shocking. I don't see him beig the next Mike Williams though. Jarrett doesn't have a great work ethic, but he is not as bad as Williams is/was.

It also doesn't help Jarrett that CJ posted better numbers than expected, and guys like Meachum and Bowe watch their stock rise by the minute it seems (Ginn is hard to predict though because he hasn't worked out, but he will go round 1, Rice is also hard to predict because of how raw he is).

I think the reason so many people are shocked though is most of ya'll had him as an option at 9.

I think you should quantify that better. :lol:

Jovu
03-29-2007, 06:52 PM
As for featuring in Miami's system, where do you play him? We're set at split end, the best position for Chambers is the slot and we need a flanker. Jarrett isn't a flanker.

Jarrett would be Marty Booker's natural successor -- the long-term answer for our No. 2 receiver. And with Booker's age and injury problems last year having Jarrett as a split end is useful and he has with the immediate ability to be used as a No. 3 red zone slot receiver as well. Derek Hagan, if he improves his catching, can play his natural X position or maybe some Z/slot hybrid since he is quick in his routes.

And what you are really saying is that Chambers best position is as a No. 3 receiver. So Chambers and Jarrett can share the slot position this year when the Dolphins go to multiple wide receivers based on the coverage/style of cornerbacks and field position.

As an added bonus, Jarrett as a second rounder doesn't wildly unbalance out salary cap at WR. Chambers and Booker are third and fifth top players in taking in salary cap space, and the salary cap issue is worrisome if we pick Ginn as a top 10 pick with its high salary. Ginn is the one who may lead someone getting cut because of this issue not Jarrett.

JT#1
03-29-2007, 10:49 PM
Jarrett would be Marty Booker's natural successor -- the long-term answer for our No. 2 receiver. And with Booker's age and injury problems last year having Jarrett as a split end is useful and he has with the immediate ability to be used as a No. 3 red zone slot receiver as well. Derek Hagan, if he improves his catching, can play his natural X position or maybe some Z/slot hybrid since he is quick in his routes.

And what you are really saying is that Chambers best position is as a No. 3 receiver. So Chambers and Jarrett can share the slot position this year when the Dolphins go to multiple wide receivers based on the coverage/style of cornerbacks and field position.

As an added bonus, Jarrett as a second rounder doesn't wildly unbalance out salary cap at WR. Chambers and Booker are third and fifth top players in taking in salary cap space, and the salary cap issue is worrisome if we pick Ginn as a top 10 pick with its high salary. Ginn is the one who may lead someone getting cut because of this issue not Jarrett.

Jarret is not dropping to the 2nd round, even if he ran a 5.9 , he was too good in college to be ignored by some teams that need a good possesion receiver late in the first round.

Philter25
03-30-2007, 08:45 AM
Who then ran 4.38's in his workout with the Bengals, so, as usual, I'm not sure of your point.

Clearly you musn't have read the thread if you think my only concern is just his speed. But then knowing you as I do, that doesn't surprise me.
You must have me mistaken with someone else......
:lol: I read the whole thread so I know your other concerns.

My point was simple. Some teams put too much emphasis on 40 times and predraft workouts and use the 40 time as a measuring stick which I think teams might weigh in that factor a little too strongly when ranking players, especially WRs.

2001 was a prime example where based on a workout, Chad Johnson fell, based on I believe a 4.6, and Freddie Mitchell rose up draft boards, based on a 4.4 I believe. Im sure the Eagles wished they took Chad Johnson over Freddie Mitchell. Heck, if you check Kiper's mock draft in 2001, he had Chad Johnson originally going to the Eagles.

And I do believe Chad Johnson ran 4.4's consistently in a private workout with the Bengals.... however those numbers, IIRC, we not what every other team in the NFL had in his scouting report.

Also, as Im sure I dont need to bring this up, Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 Although Im not comparing Jarrett to Rice at all, San Fran was smart enough to trade up to get Rice despite this pre-draft 40 time.

How often are players running (without pads) in a game on a straight 40 yard dash at full speed ahead...... usually either after they have broken something and have a straight shot to the endzone or when something bad happens and they need to chase down a player.

Stitches
03-30-2007, 08:59 AM
Jarret is not dropping to the 2nd round, even if he ran a 5.9 , he was too good in college to be ignored by some teams that need a good possesion receiver late in the first round.

I bit of an over-exaggeration there. If he ran in the 5's he'd be past second round. If he ran close to 6's I doubt he'd get drafted.

Geforce
03-30-2007, 11:15 AM
You must have me mistaken with someone else......
:lol: I read the whole thread so I know your other concerns.

My point was simple. Some teams put too much emphasis on 40 times and predraft workouts and use the 40 time as a measuring stick which I think teams might weigh in that factor a little too strongly when ranking players, especially WRs.

2001 was a prime example where based on a workout, Chad Johnson fell, based on I believe a 4.6, and Freddie Mitchell rose up draft boards, based on a 4.4 I believe. Im sure the Eagles wished they took Chad Johnson over Freddie Mitchell. Heck, if you check Kiper's mock draft in 2001, he had Chad Johnson originally going to the Eagles.

And I do believe Chad Johnson ran 4.4's consistently in a private workout with the Bengals.... however those numbers, IIRC, we not what every other team in the NFL had in his scouting report.

Also, as Im sure I dont need to bring this up, Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 Although Im not comparing Jarrett to Rice at all, San Fran was smart enough to trade up to get Rice despite this pre-draft 40 time.

How often are players running (without pads) in a game on a straight 40 yard dash at full speed ahead...... usually either after they have broken something and have a straight shot to the endzone or when something bad happens and they need to chase down a player.

Jerry Rice's times in the 40 (4.62 & 4.67) was the exact same as Dwayne Jarrett. The difference is Jerry ran his on grass while Dwayne ran his on FieldTurf.

I agree San Fran was smart enough to trade up for Rice despite his combine 40 time. Jerry Rice didn't have the luxury of going to pre-draft camps like players today does. Rice was also far and away the best player at the 1985 Senior Bowl. He made some of the best college CBs look very average on game day.

Boomer
03-30-2007, 11:24 AM
Jarrett would be Marty Booker's natural successor -- the long-term answer for our No. 2 receiver. And with Booker's age and injury problems last year having Jarrett as a split end is useful and he has with the immediate ability to be used as a No. 3 red zone slot receiver as well. Derek Hagan, if he improves his catching, can play his natural X position or maybe some Z/slot hybrid since he is quick in his routes.

And what you are really saying is that Chambers best position is as a No. 3 receiver. So Chambers and Jarrett can share the slot position this year when the Dolphins go to multiple wide receivers based on the coverage/style of cornerbacks and field position.

As an added bonus, Jarrett as a second rounder doesn't wildly unbalance out salary cap at WR. Chambers and Booker are third and fifth top players in taking in salary cap space, and the salary cap issue is worrisome if we pick Ginn as a top 10 pick with its high salary. Ginn is the one who may lead someone getting cut because of this issue not Jarrett.

I don't agree, because I think Hagan can be a choppy route runner and I don't think he possesses the quick hands to play the slot or the speed to play that open Z. But it's an interesting point made about the financial side of things, which of course bear watching. But Hagan really is the natural x and the natural successor to Jarrett. A better route runner, with lesser hands.

I don't see who would get cut to allow Ginn to play other than camp fodder like Hakim and Campbell.

vmarcilfan75
03-30-2007, 11:43 AM
im trying to figure out how DJ "blew it" when we all know he's not fast.
:hmmm: :confused2

Geforce
03-30-2007, 11:47 AM
im trying to figure out how DJ "blew it" when we all know he's not fast.
:hmmm: :confused2

Because he said he was going to run in he 4.4s on his Pro Day.

vmarcilfan75
03-30-2007, 11:49 AM
Because he said he was going to run in he 4.4s on his Pro Day.

he did? anyone have a quote?(not saying youre lying)

Geforce
03-30-2007, 11:57 AM
he did? anyone have a quote?(not saying youre lying)

Oh man, you're make me go and find that quote aren't ya?

PhinfanUK
03-30-2007, 12:04 PM
I don't think he's that strong. I don't see a guy strong enough to beat that tough press coverage. Watch how guys play off him at USC. When a DB gets in is face, generally, he really struggles. Yes he made plays at USC and he has good hands, but I don't see it. He's not a great route runner and whilst he can go up and grab the ball, I'm not sure how succesful he'll be.

And as for us picking him at 40......you have to think how much longer you plan on playing Booker and what you think of Hagan. Don't see it.

Of course now, he'll be a Hall of Famer.

Cheers for the analysis mate, I think Dwayne Bowe is the class receiver in this draft anyway, obviously behind Calvin Johnson.

Philter25
03-30-2007, 01:26 PM
Jerry Rice's times in the 40 (4.62 & 4.67) was the exact same as Dwayne Jarrett. The difference is Jerry ran his on grass while Dwayne ran his on FieldTurf.

I agree San Fran was smart enough to trade up for Rice despite his combine 40 time. Jerry Rice didn't have the luxury of going to pre-draft camps like players today does. Rice was also far and away the best player at the 1985 Senior Bowl. He made some of the best college CBs look very average on game day.

I wasnt trying to compare them because Jerry Rice blows any receiver in the NFL out of the water. Also, you can make the argument that in 1985, the NFL wasnt as fast as it is now, no pre-draft camps, less training, different surfaces, etc, so the 40 time probably didnt carry as much magnitude as it does today. DJ is nowhere near the route runner or complete WR that Jerry Rice was...... I just brought it up to show that the 40 times arent the end all measuring stick in the NFL when it comes to determining which players are going to be successful and which arent.

Geforce
03-30-2007, 01:32 PM
I wasnt trying to compare them because Jerry Rice blows any receiver in the NFL out of the water. Also, you can make the argument that in 1985, the NFL wasnt as fast as it is now, no pre-draft camps, less training, different surfaces, etc, so the 40 time probably didnt carry as much magnitude as it does today. DJ is nowhere near the route runner or complete WR that Jerry Rice was...... I just brought it up to show that the 40 times arent the end all measuring stick in the NFL when it comes to determining which players are going to be successful and which arent.

I understand where you are coming from. Like with Chad Johnson, what he did durig the private workout with Cincinnati mirrored what they saw of him on tape. That's why they took a chance on him in the 2nd round.

The better talent evaluators only uses the 40 time as one part of their overall evaluation of a player.

Even if Jarrett's time pushes him out of the 1st round, you can bet the Oakland Raiders drafts him at the beginning of the 2nd if they don't draft Calvin Johnson at #1.

Geforce
03-30-2007, 01:36 PM
From Daily Breeze
http://www.dailybreeze.com/sports/articles/6764032.html



"He's a football player," said Miami Dolphins general manager Randy Mueller, who dismissed comparisons between Jarrett and former USC receiver Mike Williams, who has flopped with Detroit. "That's a prime example of 'just watch the film.' He has one of the better sets of hands that you'll ever see. He's a big man and he catches it when he's covered. Those are all good things. Who knows how he'll turn out, but this guy's got the skins on the wall.

"When he does get covered, you can't underestimate how big the man is, so he can catch it when he's covered. He's going to be a really good red-zone target because of that.

"Again, it's about taking a guy's skill set and putting him in a position where his strengths are accentuated. You aren't going to ask him to run by corners all day."

Philter25
03-30-2007, 01:58 PM
I understand where you are coming from. Like with Chad Johnson, what he did durig the private workout with Cincinnati mirrored what they saw of him on tape. That's why they took a chance on him in the 2nd round.

The better talent evaluators only uses the 40 time as one part of their overall evaluation of a player.

Even if Jarrett's time pushes him out of the 1st round, you can bet the Oakland Raiders drafts him at the beginning of the 2nd if they don't draft Calvin Johnson at #1.

Couldnt agree more with what I bolded.... however it seems that the lesser talent evaluators, like armchair QBs on a message board such as myself and people who make mock drafts, tend to put much more weight into a 40 time.

A bunch of other people have touched on this subject when looking at WRs... its important to see where they would fit in Miami. I know some peoples's main gripe is that we dont really have a Flanker WR on the roster, which I agree with.... but we also need to take into consideration that we are changing offensive schemes. I tend to look at what type of WR Cameron was successful with in San Diego and think he might look towards that type here in Miami...... I think Miami lacks a big physical WR, which San Diego had in Vincent Jackson last year and someone please correct me, but I believe Jackson led their WRs in TDs last year. Chambers is best served working out of the slot but I think can also play the flanker position in 2 WR sets and Booker is a journeyman split end. The question to me is Hagan. I believe Hagan is more of a split end but we also need to remember, Hagan is from the Saban regime. Does this regime see Hagan as Booker's replacement at split end..... if they dont, then we might be looking at Flankers at split ends in this years upcoming draft. Also, what do they think of Chambers...... personally, I dont believe that a WR who is only successful out of the slot should be making as much as Chambers does.....

Geforce
03-30-2007, 02:20 PM
Couldnt agree more with what I bolded.... however it seems that the lesser talent evaluators, like armchair QBs on a message board such as myself and people who make mock drafts, tend to put much more weight into a 40 time.

A bunch of other people have touched on this subject when looking at WRs... its important to see where they would fit in Miami. I know some peoples's main gripe is that we dont really have a Flanker WR on the roster, which I agree with.... but we also need to take into consideration that we are changing offensive schemes. I tend to look at what type of WR Cameron was successful with in San Diego and think he might look towards that type here in Miami...... I think Miami lacks a big physical WR, which San Diego had in Vincent Jackson last year and someone please correct me, but I believe Jackson led their WRs in TDs last year. Chambers is best served working out of the slot but I think can also play the flanker position in 2 WR sets and Booker is a journeyman split end. The question to me is Hagan. I believe Hagan is more of a split end but we also need to remember, Hagan is from the Saban regime. Does this regime see Hagan as Booker's replacement at split end..... if they dont, then we might be looking at Flankers at split ends in this years upcoming draft. Also, what do they think of Chambers...... personally, I dont believe that a WR who is only successful out of the slot should be making as much as Chambers does.....

The type of WRs Cameron had in San Diego is not really indicative of the WRs he prefers. While Vincent Jackson did lead the WRs in TD receptions, he wasn't the fulltime starter. Keenan McCardell was the leading receiver coming into last season but injuries limited his production.

Chambers inconsistencies mirrors the inconsistencies of the offense. Some people just don't realize how difficult it is to be playing in a different offensive system almost every year. Not to mention with a different QB who strengths in the passing game may not play to your strengths as a receiver. Look at how Booker struggled his first two years here in Miami. Terry Robiskie will get the best out of whomever we have at WR this year because he will make them work their fins off to get better.

Dolfan32323
03-30-2007, 04:39 PM
Maybe he'll slip to the 3rd round if he doesn't clear his image.