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postermaster
04-01-2007, 04:07 PM
I know many people saying that Hall is a great CB, but that he struggles a lot and being somehow overrated and by the other hand I hear people saying that Revis has a great speed in addition with great skills and talent, so these are my questions:


*Who is more talented Revis or Hall?

*If we had to pick one CB at the Draft no matter which pick, but we had to pick one of them, who would you pick?

Agent51
04-01-2007, 04:15 PM
Wow, great question.

Leon Hall: 5-11 1/4, 193lbs, 4.39 40.
Darrelle Revis: 5-11 1/2, 204lbs, 4.50 40.


Strengths

Leon Hall: "Very good size...A smooth athlete with fluid hips and great quickness...Physical, tough and aggressive...Does an outstanding job in run support and is a reliable tackler...A playmaker with great hands and ball skills...Very smart with excellent instincts and awareness...Is technically and fundamentally sound...Versatile and has also seen some action at safety...Hard worker with premier intangibles...Has a lot of experience against Big Ten competition...Answered questions regarding his timed speed at the Combine...Also offers some potential as a punt returner.:

Darrelle Revis: "Has good size and a solid build with long arms...Smooth and an excellent natural athlete...Plays a physical brand of football...Extremely tough and aggressive...Has fluid hips...Does a nice job versus the run...Quick and is hard to tackle in the open field...Good hands and body control...Terrific tackler...Very instinctive...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Nice balance and agility...He's also an excellent punt returner."


Weaknesses

Leone Hall: "Struggled against some top opponents...Gives a big cushion in coverage...Lacks a burst and struggles to recover from mistakes...There is some concern that he's a bit of a CB / S 'tweener...Is not a lock-down guy and will allow receivers to make some catches against him...May profile as more of a zone coverage type...#2 CB?"

Darrelle Revis: "Timed speed is good but not great...Will have lapses in concentration...Needs to work on and refine his technique...Does not have great recovery speed...Flagged for more penalties than you'd like to see...Maybe not a perfect fit for all schemes."


Notes

Leon Hall: "Terrific all-around cover guy but is not quite in the same class as guys like Deion Sanders and Champ Bailey...The Wolverines have a strong tradition of producing pro defensive backs in recent years (such as Ty Law, Charles Woodson & Marlin Jackson) and this guy will try and help carry on that legacy...Should easily be the first cornerback selected and he'll more than likely come off the board very early."

Darrelle Revis: "Nephew of former NFL defensive tackle Sean Gilbert...Didn't get a lot of attention on the national stage but quietly developed into one of the top cover guys in the college game...He's probably not going to be a true #1 shutdown guy at the next level but he's definitely a starter...Should be one of the first players chosen at his position and his ability to also help out on special teams will be a plus in his favor."

This decision is too hard, so I choose "pass" :lol:

postermaster
04-01-2007, 04:18 PM
Wow, great question.

Leon Hall: 5-11 1/4, 193lbs, 4.39 40.
Darrelle Revis: 5-11 1/2, 204lbs, 4.50 40.


Strengths

Leon Hall: "Very good size...A smooth athlete with fluid hips and great quickness...Physical, tough and aggressive...Does an outstanding job in run support and is a reliable tackler...A playmaker with great hands and ball skills...Very smart with excellent instincts and awareness...Is technically and fundamentally sound...Versatile and has also seen some action at safety...Hard worker with premier intangibles...Has a lot of experience against Big Ten competition...Answered questions regarding his timed speed at the Combine...Also offers some potential as a punt returner.:

Darrelle Revis: "Has good size and a solid build with long arms...Smooth and an excellent natural athlete...Plays a physical brand of football...Extremely tough and aggressive...Has fluid hips...Does a nice job versus the run...Quick and is hard to tackle in the open field...Good hands and body control...Terrific tackler...Very instinctive...Plays with a nasty demeanor...Nice balance and agility...He's also an excellent punt returner."


Weaknesses

Leone Hall: "Struggled against some top opponents...Gives a big cushion in coverage...Lacks a burst and struggles to recover from mistakes...There is some concern that he's a bit of a CB / S 'tweener...Is not a lock-down guy and will allow receivers to make some catches against him...May profile as more of a zone coverage type...#2 CB?"

Darrelle Revis: "Timed speed is good but not great...Will have lapses in concentration...Needs to work on and refine his technique...Does not have great recovery speed...Flagged for more penalties than you'd like to see...Maybe not a perfect fit for all schemes."


Notes

Leon Hall: "Terrific all-around cover guy but is not quite in the same class as guys like Deion Sanders and Champ Bailey...The Wolverines have a strong tradition of producing pro defensive backs in recent years (such as Ty Law, Charles Woodson & Marlin Jackson) and this guy will try and help carry on that legacy...Should easily be the first cornerback selected and he'll more than likely come off the board very early."

Darrelle Revis: "Nephew of former NFL defensive tackle Sean Gilbert...Didn't get a lot of attention on the national stage but quietly developed into one of the top cover guys in the college game...He's probably not going to be a true #1 shutdown guy at the next level but he's definitely a starter...Should be one of the first players chosen at his position and his ability to also help out on special teams will be a plus in his favor."

This decision is too hard, so I choose "pass" :lol:


Thanks, great post, exactly what I was looking for!!!!

THANKS A LOT!!!

Dolfan32323
04-01-2007, 04:21 PM
It is a very tough call and I think either would be quality picks. I give Hall the slight Edge due to the caliber of teams he went up against week after week.

postermaster
04-01-2007, 04:29 PM
Also, do you think that Chris Houston could fall down to the eighth pick in the second round?, I mean, 40 overall... and we pick him in the 2nd...?

Agent51
04-01-2007, 04:30 PM
It is a very tough call and I think either would be quality picks. I give Hall the slight Edge due to the caliber of teams he went up against week after week.

excellent logic, therefore, I choose Hall too. But I would be super happy with either. They seem to be the same player just one is slightly smaller and faster while the other is slightly bigger (weight-wise) and slower.

Frayser
04-01-2007, 04:41 PM
Hall is probably the safer pick, but Revis has more upside. I'm not sure I completely agree with those summaries. Was that pulled off draftcountdown? Also, Revis ran a 4.38 at his pro day. He is just as fast as Hall.

My problem with Hall is that he really isn't a Top 10 corner. In most other drafts there would be at least one or two corners taken over him, but it just so happens that this draft doesn't have any feature CBs. There are lots of "raw" guys that will go in the late first and second rounds. Revis is probably the top of that list . . . along with Houston. They just need a little polishing, but they could end up being studs. Hall, on the other hand, will likely be a decent #2 corner or an average #1 corner for his entire career.

Jaj
04-01-2007, 04:42 PM
Hall is not a decent #2 CB, he'd be an excellent one and a good #1. Think Antrel Rolle at his prime level.

Agent51
04-01-2007, 04:43 PM
Hall is probably the safer pick, but Revis has more upside. I'm not sure I completely agree with those summaries. Was that pulled off draftcountdown? Also, Revis ran a 4.38 at his pro day. He is just as fast as Hall.

My problem with Hall is that he really isn't a Top 10 corner. In most other drafts there would be at least one or two corners taken over him, but it just so happens that this draft doesn't have any feature CBs. There are lots of "raw" guys that will go in the late first and second rounds. Revis is probably the top of that list . . . along with Houston. They just need a little polishing, but they could end up being studs. Hall, on the other hand, will likely be a decent #2 corner or an average #1 corner for his entire career.

Yea I just copy/pasted the nfldraftcountdown writeups for the two, as they seemed to be the most complete ones out there.

PJack
04-01-2007, 04:44 PM
Revis ran a 4.38 at his pro day so speed is not an issue. I haven't seen a lot of this guy and he definitely did not face the type of competition that the Hall and Houston saw week to week.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/labels/Revis.html

Houston had a great combine and is widely known to be excellent in man on man cover skills. He shut down several receivers including Jarrett. Problem I see with Houston is that he doesn't appear to have good ball skills with only 3 career picks.

With Hall I would agree that he is solid, but I have big concerns that he struggled against top competition as Ginn and Jarrett had big days against Michigan. He also has good but not great speed. The kind that allows special guys to bait QB's and and recover to turn the ball over.

Bottom line is that I don't believe any of these guys is worthy of number 9. I therefore would not draft corner in round one. The one bright spot is that DB is a very deep position this year so we can find help in the 2nd and 3rds rounds that could help us.

postermaster
04-01-2007, 04:47 PM
Revis ran a 4.38 at his pro day so speed is not an issue. I haven't seen a lot of this guy and he definitely did not face the type of competition that the Hall and Houston saw week to week.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/news/labels/Revis.html

Houston had a great combine and is widely known to be excellent in man on man cover skills. He shut down several receivers including Jarrett. Problem I see with Houston is that he doesn't appear to have good ball skills with only 3 career picks.

With Hall I would agree that he is solid, but I have big concerns that he struggled against top competition as Ginn and Jarrett had big days against Michigan. He also has good but not great speed. The kind that allows special guys to bait QB's and and recover to turn the ball over.

Bottom line is that I don't believe any of these guys is worthy of number 9. I therefore would not draft corner in round one. The one bright spot is that DB is a very deep position this year so we can find help in the 2nd and 3rds rounds that could help us.

Do you think that Chris Houston could fall down to the eighth pick in the second round?, I mean, 40 overall... and we pick him in the 2nd...?

Agent51
04-01-2007, 05:02 PM
Do you think that Chris Houston could fall down to the eighth pick in the second round?, I mean, 40 overall... and we pick him in the 2nd...?

Well, it would be AWESOME if he did, but IDK. I just checked a bunch of mocks and here's a rundown of the different places he's projected:

Round 1 #24 to New England
Round 1 #27 to New Orleans
Round 1 #18 to Cincy
Round 1 #18 to Cincy
Round 1 #27 to New Orleans
Round 1 #18 to Cincy
Round 1 #22 to Dallas
Round 1 #9 to Miami (I like him but WAY to high IMO)
Round 1 #22 to Dallas
Round 1 #12 to Buffalo

and ONE (Draft King) didn't have him in round 1, but it was only a 1 round mock so IDK if he dropped 7 spots in round 2

postermaster
04-01-2007, 05:07 PM
Well, it would be AWESOME if he did, but IDK. I just checked a bunch of mocks and here's a rundown of the different places he's projected:

Round 1 #24 to New England
Round 1 #27 to New Orleans
Round 1 #18 to Cincy
Round 1 #18 to Cincy
Round 1 #27 to New Orleans
Round 1 #18 to Cincy
Round 1 #22 to Dallas
Round 1 #9 to Miami (I like him but WAY to high IMO)
Round 1 #22 to Dallas
Round 1 #12 to Buffalo

and ONE (Draft King) didn't have him in round 1, but it was only a 1 round mock so IDK if he dropped 7 spots in round 2

I see..., but I remember this past year Jimmy Williams being drafted in the first round in all the mocks and suddenly he dropped down to Atlanta in the second (he is a CB, by the way), but practically, I see it no way for Houston falling down to our early second but anything can happen, he could just fall 10 spots from the 2 mocks that spoted him at New Orleans #27...

What gets my attention is that some mocks have him as high as #9 and some others have him at #27...

Agent51
04-01-2007, 05:12 PM
I see..., but I remember this past year Jimmy Williams being drafted in the first round in all the mocks and suddenly he dropped down to Atlanta in the second (he is a CB, by the way), but practically, I see it no way for Houston falling down to our early second...

I'm assuming you are talking about Jimmy Williams from Virginia Tech, in which case he dropped becase off his off the field issues and his character came into question. Houston doesn't have those issues, so he will get taken where his talent merits, which is mid-to-late 1st. Williams should have been just as high but he had all those non-football issues.

Agent51
04-01-2007, 05:14 PM
What gets my attention is that some mocks have him as high as #9 and some others have him at #27...

Well, to be fair, I just wrote the results fro the first 10 reults in a Google search, and the common consensus there seemed to be 18-27. The #9 and #12 picks were from user created sites, not "expert" sites, but I included them because I just went down the list of results.

postermaster
04-01-2007, 05:15 PM
I'm assuming you are talking about Jimmy Williams from Virginia Tech, in which case he dropped becase off his off the field issues and his character came into question. Houston doesn't have those issues, so he will get taken where his talent merits, which is mid-to-late 1st. Williams should have been just as high but he had all those non-football issues.

I see, but have there been cases that you remember of some players projected to be taken in the first round or early and fell down very late?

Agent51
04-01-2007, 05:26 PM
I see, but have there been cases that you remember of some players projected to be taken in the first round or early and fell down very late?

I know there have, but off the top of my head I can't think of any that made major falls, aside from Aaron Rodgers, who was projected as #1, or at least top 5, falling WAY down to the Packers at 20-something. The thing with the guys projected later in round one is they tend not to slip as much as say a top 5/10 projected player, unless some off field stuff comes up or character issues and all that.

The risk factor is MUCH higher in the top 10 than it is at say 20 on, so the top 10 guys seem to get the most scrutiny between the season end and the draft, and that cause wild fluctuations (Brady Quinn is a prime example) whereas the guys projected in the back of round 1 aren't nitpicked as much (don't take that wrong, every inch of them is definately combed over too) so they tend to stay around the same area, maybe only a spot or two move either way. Just look at this year for example. Brady has been as high as #1 and as low as #23, but then you look at guys projected at #20 and back and they have shufled maybe only a position or two, mostly based on what happened in free agency.

postermaster
04-01-2007, 05:35 PM
I know there have, but off the top of my head I can't think of any that made major falls, aside from Aaron Rodgers, who was projected as #1, or at least top 5, falling WAY down to the Packers at 20-something. The thing with the guys projected later in round one is they tend not to slip as much as say a top 5/10 projected player, unless some off field stuff comes up or character issues and all that.

The risk factor is MUCH higher in the top 10 than it is at say 20 on, so the top 10 guys seem to get the most scrutiny between the season end and the draft, and that cause wild fluctuations (Brady Quinn is a prime example) whereas the guys projected in the back of round 1 aren't nitpicked as much (don't take that wrong, every inch of them is definately combed over too) so they tend to stay around the same area, maybe only a spot or two move either way. Just look at this year for example. Brady has been as high as #1 and as low as #23, but then you look at guys projected at #20 and back and they have shufled maybe only a position or two, mostly based on what happened in free agency.

Yes, I know, what Im asking for is too much for possibility matters, I want Brady Quinn to fall down to #9, then Chris Houston to fall down to #40 overall (our early second) and then in our late second hope to get either Ryan Kalil or Anthony Gonzalez...

Agent51
04-01-2007, 05:38 PM
Yes, I know, what Im asking for is too much for possibility matters, I want Brady Quinn to fall down to #9, then Chris Houston to fall down to #40 overall (our early second) and then in our late second hope to get either Ryan Kalil or Anthony Gonzalez...

Well what you are asking for would be a DAMN fine day 1 :lol:.

I think more realistically is we could get Quinn in one (most-likely with a tade for the #6 overall with Washington) then Kalil with #40 and Gonzalez with #60 (and we'd have no 3rd rounder due to the trade up with Washington). I would not be able to complain with that scenerio one bit, unless Chris Houston happened to fall to #40 and we still took Kalil, in which case I'd be pretty pissed, but I honestly don't see him getting out of round 1.