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View Full Version : O-line , O-line, O-line!!!



MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 08:19 PM
Enough is enough.. I am tired of being a team who simply can't control the ball properly because our front wall sucks.. This is our #1 need IMO..

we have snubbed this position for far too long.. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of drafting projects like Alibi late in the draft "hoping" they'll pan out and contribute.. We need to go for the throat in this draft and draft guys that WILL contribute and will make our O-line one of strongest areas instead of the weakest (as it has been for for FAR FAR too long) ..

And it is embarrassing being a dolphins fan when our big guys have been pushovers year in and year out on the offensive front .. One of the first things opposing division fans say when I have talked to them over the past 5 years is - " You're O'line Sucks the Bag ! " .. And I;ve heard it far too often and they were absolutely correct ..

With Ricky and Ronnie, we have the horses to run the ball - now we need to build the wall they run behind.. PERIOD.. Being a top 10 rushing team in the NFL will improve our offense instantly...

Here is my ideas.

The Dolphins need at least two of Kalil, Grubbs, Sears to have a good O-line.. The LT position can be occupied by Carey.. The only OT's that can make an immediate impact are Thomas , Staley and Brown.. 3 guys that will be gone by the 2nd round..

I also wouldn't mind Manny Ramirez if he falls for depth purposes, The strongest lineman in the entire draft..

We need a center to call the plays effectively.. A guy who is smart and is technically sound.. That is Kalil.. So trade down our #9 and move down to about the 13th to 17th spot and get him for sure.

Then you get Sears with the next pick ... Sears can easily play RT as he did in college in spurts (and was VERY effective there) . Then move Carey over to LT and we will finally be good on the O'line..

RT- Sears
RG- Shelton
C- Kalil
LG- Hadnot
LT- Carey

We will be much much improved on the O-line with this scenario.. I would also draft Ramirez or Alleman for depth if one of them lasts till the 4th round..

OR

You draft Ben Grubbs, who will be an Alan Faneca for us for about 10 years .. And keep Hadnot at center (but I think it is IMPERATIVE we get Kalil at center) .. And under this scenario, get Levi Brown in round one.

RT- Carey
RG- Shelton
C- HAdnot
LG- Grubbs
LT-Brown

Ricky and Ronnie will have a field day running on the left side of this line and both Grubbs and Brown are terrific run blockers.. Dominating types.. This alone will help our offense immensely, if we can be a top 10 rushing team in the league .. With two or three very good lineman, this is entirely possible ..

Run the damn ball and keep the very good dolphins d off the field.. Something we couldn't do enough of last season..

finfan54
04-03-2007, 08:23 PM
I hear ya loud and clear brother. I am pretty sure we will be based on what management is saying. But I as well could not stand another season with later round picks for OL following the Jimma Johnson theory of OL.

Five picks in the first 113 picks so I do not see how two out of those five cannot be linemen based on needs and plans.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 08:39 PM
I hear ya loud and clear brother. I am pretty sure we will be based on what management is saying. But I as well could not stand another season with later round picks for OL following the Jimma Johnson theory of OL.

Five picks in the first 113 picks so I do not see how two out of those five cannot be linemen based on needs and plans.

I hear ya brother.. I am certain the dolphins can trade down in round one as I believe one of Willis, Peterson or someone else will be available at #9 .. San Fran , Buffalo and the Rams all covet Willis and I am sure we can trade our #9 and move down to one of those 3 teams..

What I am saying is, instead of having 5 picks in the top 113 picks, we can add a 6th pick of the top 113 picks and this is how it can help us :

So, my #1 preference is to trade down to about #12 to #17 then take Kalil .. We need a center ! And he will be an All-Pro .. I guarantee it !! And drafting him would be like adding two O-lineman because that would mean Hadnot will be moving over to Guard - And he is much better there anyway ..

A WIN WIN situation if you ask me .. Plus we'll add another much needed pick by moving down a little .. And get another good player..

So by trading down, we will essentially be adding an all pro center in Kalil.. We will be adding a good guard in Hadnot , and we may add yet another o-lineman with that other pick we get by moving down..

So in essence, we get 3 players for one ..

That one trade down can ultimately go a long way to fix our offensive line problems greatly IMO. Something that is LONG LONG overdue ..

Of those 6 picks in the 113 range, we can easily get 3 very good offensive lineman who will greatly help us.. AND we may be able to get a Drew Stanton to groom, and get a player like Rice at WR and maybe a corner ..

Like I said, trading down is a WIN WIN situation.. Kalil will easily be the best center we will have since the great Dwight Stephenson days .. Kalil will be a Pro-Bowler, and we need him in the worst way possible ..

Agent51
04-03-2007, 08:52 PM
I hear ya brother.. I am certain the dolphins can trade down in round one as I believe one of Willis, Peterson or someone else will be available at #9 .. San Fran , Buffalo and the Rams all covet Willis and I am sure we can trade our #9 and move down to one of those 3 teams..

What I am saying is, instead of having 5 picks in the top 113 picks, we can add a 6th pick of the top 113 picks and this is how it can help us :

So, my #1 preference is to trade down to about #12 to #17 then take Kalil .. We need a center ! And he will be an All-Pro .. I guarantee it !! And drafting him would be like adding two O-lineman because that would mean Hadnot will be moving over to Guard - And he is much better there anyway ..

A WIN WIN situation if you ask me .. Plus we'll add another much needed pick by moving down a little .. And get another good player..

So by trading down, we will essentially be adding an all pro center in Kalil.. We will be adding a good guard in Hadnot , and we may add yet another o-lineman with that other pick we get by moving down..

So in essence, we get 3 players for one ..

That one trade down can ultimately go a long way our offensive line problems greatly IMO. Something that is LONG LONG overdue ..

Of those 6 picks in the 113 range, we can easily get 3 very good offensive lineman who will greatly help us.. AND we may be able to get a Drew Stanton to groom, and get a player like Rice at WR and maybe a corner ..

Like I said, trading down is a WIN WIN situation.. Kalil will easily be the best center we will have since the great Dwight Stephenson days .. Kalil will be a Pro-Bowler, and we need him in the worst way possible ..

Yea, so think of what he would be like with BRADY QUINN under center. Kalil is projected as an early 2nd rounder, so we make the trade up for Quinn, only give up ONE pick (3rd round or maybe the pats' 2nd rounder and we get something like a 5 in the deal too), and we could have a franchise QB (which arguably is as big a need, if not bigger, than OL), a C AND a good WR with the first three picks. Quinn at #6 (after the trade), Kalil at #40, Gonzalez or Hill at #60

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 08:55 PM
Quinn is very overrated IMO .. I am not impressed with him .. If he didn't go to Notre Dame, he'd be projected as a 3rd or 4th rounder ..

And you are mistaken, Kalil will be drafted in the first round of this draft.. Book it.. He will definitely NOT be around when the fins pick again that late..

Agent51
04-03-2007, 09:01 PM
Quinn is very overrated IMO .. I am not impressed with him .. If he didn't go to Notre Dame, he'd be projected as a 3rd or 4th rounder ..

And you are mistaken, Kalil will be drafted in the first round of this draft.. Book it.. He will definitely NOT be around when the fins pick again that late..

I'm not a fan of OL in round 1, I just can't bring myself to it. And Quinn isn't overrated because he plays at ND, if anything that's what has all these people calling him overrated. He "never won the big one" there, but how many of those "big ones" did he single-handledly BOMB? He was working with a wretched coach and team his first two years and still shattered records, and then he moved to a PRo-Style offense and because even MORE adept at running the team. His defense let him down more often than not. Why isn't anyone talking about his USC comeback? That was all Quinn, and they HAD that game, the questionable call is what gave USC the win.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 09:04 PM
You don't need to explain, I've watched Quinn alot ... I just think Quinn will bomb in the NFL . Maybe not as bad as fellow Notre Dame QB Rick Mirer .. But close.

And how can anyone not want a Pro Bowl calibre Center in the first round ? You'd rather go for another Jamar Fletcher ?

This is the problem, dolphin fans want a very good offensive line, but don't want to invest a first rounder on getting there.. It makes no sense.. You can't have your cake and eat it too..

And some people here greatly undervalue what a Pro Bowl type , technically sound, strong, quick and smart Center means to an offensive line.. ..And what it means overall to an offense ..

A top notch, smart signal caller at center, is the biggest need on this line. A line that happens to be one of the worst in the league as it stands right now .. Even our coach alluded to this , saying, "our offense starts from the Center on out" ..

I don't blame some dolphins fans for not understanding this, because it's been quite some time since Dwight Stephenson has been around .. So maybe people have forgotten how it feels to have total confidence in an offensive line..

Vertical Limit
04-03-2007, 09:07 PM
If there is no chance at Brady Quinn [trading up nor he falls], I would like to draft Joe Staley with the #9 pick overall. If we can trade down and still get him, then great. But I am willing to reach for Joe Staley.

I have him rated higher than Levi Brown. Call me crazy, but yup.

Agent51
04-03-2007, 09:08 PM
You don't need to explain, I've watched Quinn alot ... I just think Quinn will bomb in the NFL . Maybe not as bad as fellow Notre Dame QB Rick Mirer .. But close.

And how can anyone not want a Pro Bowl calibre Center in the first round ? You'd rather go for another Jamar Fletcher ?

This is the problem, dolphin fans want a very good offensive line but don't want to invest a first rounder on getting there.. It makes no sense.. And some people here greatly undervalue what a Pro Bowl type , technically sound, strong, quick and smart Center means to an offensive line..

Who said anything abaout Jamar Fletcher? I was the biggest opponent of that draft. And why? Because we passed up on a future Pro Bowl QB. How can anyone NOT want a franchise QB, FINALLY, so we don't have to deal with all this trash we've been trying to pass as treasure for EIGHT YEARS now.

MustangFinFan
04-03-2007, 09:12 PM
i hear ya...im tired of drafting late round OL. sure u can find a diamond in the rough...but US....hasnt happened yet. we drafted Hadnot and Carey very high, and so far they are our best OL. With our first pick...we could either trade it back to acquire an extra 2nd and a later first...or keep it, pickup Levi Brown. If we go back...id take Justin Blalock, then Josh Beekman in the 2nd.

Kalil isnt for us...hes a zone blocker...Beekman is considered the best Center in the draft by many. or we can keep the #9 and draft Ted Ginn to give us extra help with WR...and our two 2nd round picks can be Beekman and Ryan Harris perhaps. we seem high on Andy Alleman...and im not ready to count on Toledo or Alabi yet...so bring in whoever u want.

MrEd
04-03-2007, 09:13 PM
Enough is enough.. I am tired of being a team who simply can't control the ball properly because our front wall sucks.. This is our #1 need IMO..

we have snubbed this position for far too long.. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of drafting projects like Alibi late in the draft "hoping" they'll pan out and contribute.. We need to go for the throat in this draft and draft guys that WILL contribute and will make our O-line one of strongest areas instead of the weakest (as it has been for for FAR FAR too long) ..

And it is embarrassing being a dolphins fan when our big guys have been pushovers year in and year out on the offensive front .. One of the first things opposing division fans say when I have talked to them over the past 5 years is - " You're O'line Sucks the Bag ! " .. And I;ve heard it far too often and they were absolutely correct ..

With Ricky and Ronnie, we have the horses to run the ball - now we need to build the wall they run behind.. PERIOD.. Being a top 10 rushing team in the NFL will improve our offense instantly...

Here is my ideas.

The Dolphins need at least two of Kalil, Grubbs, Sears to have a good O-line.. The LT position can be occupied by Carey.. The only OT's that can make an immediate impact are Thomas , Staley and Brown.. 3 guys that will be gone by the 2nd round..

I also wouldn't mind Manny Ramirez if he falls for depth purposes, The strongest lineman in the entire draft..

We need a center to call the plays effectively.. A guy who is smart and is technically sound.. That is Kalil.. So trade down our #9 and move down to about the 13th to 17th spot and get him for sure.

Then you get Sears with the next pick ... Sears can easily play RT as he did in college in spurts (and was VERY effective there) . Then move Carey over to LT and we will finally be good on the O'line..

RT- Sears
RG- Shelton
C- Kalil
LG- Hadnot
LT- Carey

We will be much much improved on the O-line with this scenario.. I would also draft Ramirez or Alleman for depth if one of them lasts till the 4th round..

OR

You draft Ben Grubbs, who will be an Alan Faneca for us for about 10 years .. And keep Hadnot at center (but I think it is IMPERATIVE we get Kalil at center) .. And under this scenario, get Levi Brown in round one.

RT- Carey
RG- Shelton
C- HAdnot
LG- Grubbs
LT-Brown

Ricky and Ronnie will have a field day running on the left side of this line and both Grubbs and Brown are terrific run blockers.. Dominating types.. This alone will help our offense immensely, if we can be a top 10 rushing team in the league .. With two or three very good lineman, this is entirely possible ..

Run the damn ball and keep the very good dolphins d off the field.. Something we couldn't do enough of last season..


Dude, when are you going to wake up to reality? You don't just poof! "hey, I'm going to trade down!" and poof! there you go...no that isn't reality.

There is no team that is going to want to give up any picks to move up to #9. We are stuck.

We just need to hope that one of Grubbs, Sears, Blalock(yeah right), or Kalil(yeah right) is there at #40.

Just concentrate on Tedd Ginn Jr if we aren't interested in Brown at #9. But we aren't trading down. Not for the #9 pick. Who would want that pick? Why? All the must haves are going to be gone by #5 or #6.

Now should Quinn or Peterson still be there at #9...then maybe, maybe we can find a trade partner. But doubt it.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 09:21 PM
Dude, when are you going to wake up to reality? You don't just poof! "hey, I'm going to trade down!" and poof! there you go...no that isn't reality.

There is no team that is going to want to give up any picks to move up to #9. We are stuck.

We just need to hope that one of Grubbs, Sears, Blalock(yeah right), or Kalil(yeah right) is there at #40.

Just concentrate on Tedd Ginn Jr if we aren't interested in Brown at #9. But we aren't trading down. Not for the #9 pick. Who would want that pick? Why? All the must haves are going to be gone by #5 or #6.

Now should Quinn or Peterson still be there at #9...then maybe, maybe we can find a trade partner. But doubt it.

What are you talking about ? It has been well documented the Bills, Rams and 49ers all covet Patrick Willis.. As they all need this type of player and lack in that position .. There is a good chance he'll be there at #9 ..

All those teams can be viable trading partners.. Thus making it realistic.. Teams trade down ALL THE TIME !! Thus making it a realistic possibility ..

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 09:23 PM
If there is no chance at Brady Quinn [trading up nor he falls], I would like to draft Joe Staley with the #9 pick overall. If we can trade down and still get him, then great. But I am willing to reach for Joe Staley.

I have him rated higher than Levi Brown. Call me crazy, but yup.

I like Staley too.. But it has been well documented that Levi Brown is more NFL ready right now.. Although Staley's ceiling is higher, and I agree with that, do you want to wait a year or two before seeing Staley play regularly ?

miami234ever
04-03-2007, 09:30 PM
What are you talking about ? It has been well documented the Bills, Rams and 49ers all covet Patrick Willis.. As they all need this type of player and lack in that position .. There is a good chance he'll be there at #9 ..

All those teams can be viable trading partners.. Thus making it realistic.. Teams trade down ALL THE TIME !! Thus making it a realistic possibility ..

49ers won't trade up because Houston is the team after us and they're not interested in him. The Bills have so many needs right now that they can't afford to trade up. The Rams maybe, but they are also very interested in Okoye so they may just stay there and see who falls to them between Willis and Okoye. I kinda agree with you o-line post, but it's not Cam's or Houck's style to draft o-line in the early rounds. I see maybe Staley if he falls to our #40 pick, but other than that it seems they are going to draft low-key guys. If we get Staley in the 2nd, our o-line i set this year IMO

LT: Staley
LG: Alabi
C: Hadnot
RG: Shelton
RT: Carey

I think the reason they are trying to stockpile all these late round picks is to draft a majority of the o-line picks then and use earlier picks on QBs, WRs, TEs, and maybe even DB. O-line is easier to COACH then WRs, QBs, TEs, and DBs.

trate121hb
04-03-2007, 09:32 PM
I hear ya loud and clear brother. I am pretty sure we will be based on what management is saying. But I as well could not stand another season with later round picks for OL following the Jimma Johnson theory of OL.

Five picks in the first 113 picks so I do not see how two out of those five cannot be linemen based on needs and plans.

love the firs 4 picks of ur mock draft

Agent51
04-03-2007, 09:35 PM
Dude, when are you going to wake up to reality? You don't just poof! "hey, I'm going to trade down!" and poof! there you go...no that isn't reality.

There is no team that is going to want to give up any picks to move up to #9. We are stuck.

We just need to hope that one of Grubbs, Sears, Blalock(yeah right), or Kalil(yeah right) is there at #40.

Just concentrate on Tedd Ginn Jr if we aren't interested in Brown at #9. But we aren't trading down. Not for the #9 pick. Who would want that pick? Why? All the must haves are going to be gone by #5 or #6.

Now should Quinn or Peterson still be there at #9...then maybe, maybe we can find a trade partner. But doubt it.

Why does everyone want Ginn so bad? People knock Quinn for never winning a big game and say he has bust written all over him, but look at Ginn. He is what 5-11 178lbs, dude is a TWIG, he is a saftey's wet dream. He also relies on nothing but speed, he isn't physical, and he isn't a good route runner, so he is the most 1-demensional WR in the draft. What happens if he doesn't have the same step once this injury (that is taking WAY too long to heal, making me think he doesn't WANNA run before the draft for fear the resut would husrt his stock, cuz a sprain doesn't take 3+ months to heal) finally heals? Then what, the guy who only had his speed is now nothing special, a fast (but not blazing) WR who struggles against the press and who runs sloppy routes. Yea, Quinn ISN'T worh the #9 pick but he is :rolleyes2

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 09:35 PM
but it's not Cam's or Houck's style to draft o-line in the early rounds. I see maybe Staley if he falls to our #40 pick, but other than that it seems they are going to draft low-key guys.

Well then this offense will forever be screwed ..

We need a coach who looks at the offensive line as a PRIORITY , not with the theory of getting lower end guys and hoping and praying they can become a great unit ..

That theory has FAILED time and time and time again in Miami .. We have one of the worst lines in the league.. And by far the worst in the division.. Time to fix it, and fix it PROPERLY .. With very good players picked early, and not projects or reclamation projects ..

miami234ever
04-03-2007, 09:39 PM
Well then this offense will forever be screwed ..

We need a coach who looks at the offensive line as a PRIORITY , not with the theory of getting lower end guys and hoping and praying they can become a great unit ..

That theory has FAILED time and time and time again in Miami .. We have one of the worst lines in the league.. And by far the worst in the division.. Time to fix it, and fix it PROPERLY .. With very good players picked early, and not projects or reclamation projects ..

Did you look at the oline I proposed to you? Houck has done it several times and it has worked. Cam not as much but he knows how to select good oline players. Did you read the post called "Inoffensive Line"? It's pretty good you should check it out. It makes you worry a lot less about our oline.

Edit: BTW, I think Quinn is gonna be a beast. He is worth the #9 pick.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 09:43 PM
Did you look at the oline I proposed to you?

Yes I did, and your proposal is garbage .. Because it is based on Miami getting Staley at #40 - which will never happen as he will be gone WAY WAY earlier in the draft.. I also don't see a very good center there in your linup..

So no, your proposal isn't good.. Not good at all.. And entirely unrealistic to boot ..


Did you read the post called "Inoffensive Line"? It's pretty good you should check it out. It makes you worry a lot less about our oline.

I don't need to read other threads to see what fans say for me know this offensive line ,as it stands, Stinks.. I know all the players the dolphins have inside and out ..

The O-line needs TONS of work .. And reclamation projects and lower tier players in the draft WILL NOT make this a great O-line .. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh*t .. I don't care what coach is stirring the salad ..

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 09:51 PM
You want a great unit on a team, you need GREAT players.. PERIOD .. And it's about time the Miami offensive line had a great unit - with at least 2 linemen going to Pro Bowls - like we used to have with Webb and Sims .. Two players picked pretty early in the draft by the way .. And it's no wonder we haven't had anything like them since ..

We haven't had anything like them because we pick retreads on the waiver wire, reclamation projects, and guys in the very late rounds.. We get guys like Chris Liwienski - a player who stinks as he was with Arizona last season . Arizona with a bad O-line as well, and they couldn't wait to get rid of one Mr Liwienski ..

It's no coincidence that Carey and Hadnot are our best linemen up front.. Because they were picked earlier than anyone else.. How come Houck couldn't fix an o-lineman, out of all the ones he had available , to be better than at least Hadnot and Carey ??

Explain that one to me .. How come Houck couln't mold one of the countless bodies at his disposal to be at least as good as Carey or Hadnot ? Again, both players picked early in the draft !

I dont care what coaches have done before, including Houck .. Jimmy Johnson won championships in College and the NFL.. He didn't do jack squat in Miami ..

miami234ever
04-03-2007, 09:52 PM
Yes I did, and your proposal is garbage .. Because it is based on Miami getting Staley at #40 -which will never happen as he will be gone WAY earlier in the draft.. I also don't see a very good center there..

So no, your proposal isn't good.. Not good at all.. And entirely unrealistic to boot ..



i don't need to read other threads what fans say for me know this offensive line ,as it stands, Stinks.. I know all the players the dolphins have inside and out ..

It's entirely unrealistic because one player can't fall? Players do fall you know. Hadnot is a pretty good center if you ask me. And the post "Inoffensive Line" is actually written by one of the most respected users around here (Boomer) and he has a lot of info to back up what he says. I haven't any of that here. Drafting a bunch of olineman on the first day doesn't always translate to success.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 10:04 PM
Drafting a bunch of olineman on the first day doesn't always translate to success.

Well it has a much MUCH better chance of success. As Miami dolphins history indicates.. Maybe you need to read my post again.. Here it is -

You want a great unit on a team, you need GREAT players.. PERIOD .. And it's about time the Miami offensive line had a great unit - with at least 2 linemen going to Pro Bowls - like we used to have with Webb and Sims .. Two players picked pretty early in the draft by the way .. And it's no wonder we haven't had anything like them since ..

We haven't had anything like them because we pick retreads on the waiver wire, reclamation projects, and guys in the very late rounds.. We get guys like Chris Liwienski - a player who stinks as he was with Arizona last season . Arizona with a bad O-line as well, and they couldn't wait to get rid of one Mr Liwienski ..

It's no coincidence that Carey and Hadnot are our best linemen up front.. Because they were picked earlier than anyone else.. How come Houck couldn't fix an o-lineman, out of all the ones he had available , to be better than at least Hadnot and Carey ?? Hmmmmmmmm ...

Explain that one to me .. How come Houck couln't mold one of the countless bodies at his disposal to be at least as good as Carey or Hadnot ? Again, both players picked early in the draft !

I dont care what coaches have done before, including Houck .. Jimmy Johnson won championships in College and the NFL.. He didn't do jack squat in Miami ..

PS -- And I don't agree with Boomer at all.. It's all based on hypotheticals, unrealistic scenarios ,and "hope" .. Not facts.. Because both guys haven't even played in the NFL to prove anything ..

And here's a fact - Toledo has been injured for 4 of his last 6 season playing football.. Your resting your hope (along with boomer) on that ?? LOL .. Good luck trying to build a championship O-line unit with that kinda hope and desperate measure.. It aint EVER gonna happen ..

twix2500
04-03-2007, 10:14 PM
PLEASe fix this offensive line period.

miami234ever
04-03-2007, 10:19 PM
Well it has a much MUCH better chance of success. As Miami dolphins history indicates.. Maybe you need to read my post again.. Here it is -

You want a great unit on a team, you need GREAT players.. PERIOD .. And it's about time the Miami offensive line had a great unit - with at least 2 linemen going to Pro Bowls - like we used to have with Webb and Sims .. Two players picked pretty early in the draft by the way .. And it's no wonder we haven't had anything like them since ..

We haven't had anything like them because we pick retreads on the waiver wire, reclamation projects, and guys in the very late rounds.. We get guys like Chris Liwienski - a player who stinks as he was with Arizona last season . Arizona with a bad O-line as well, and they couldn't wait to get rid of one Mr Liwienski ..

It's no coincidence that Carey and Hadnot are our best linemen up front.. Because they were picked earlier than anyone else.. How come Houck couldn't fix an o-lineman, out of all the ones he had available , to be better than at least Hadnot and Carey ?? Hmmmmmmmm ...

Explain that one to me .. How come Houck couln't mold one of the countless bodies at his disposal to be at least as good as Carey or Hadnot ? Again, both players picked early in the draft !

I dont care what coaches have done before, including Houck .. Jimmy Johnson won championships in College and the NFL.. He didn't do jack squat in Miami ..

PS -- And I don't agree with Boomer at all.. It's all based on hypotheticals, unrealistic scenarios ,and "hope" .. Not facts.. Because both guys haven't even played in the NFL to prove anything ..

And here's a fact - Toledo has been injured for 4 of his last 6 season playing football.. Your resting your hope (along with boomer) on that ?? LOL .. Good luck trying to build a championship O-line unit with that kinda hope and desperate measure.. It aint EVER gonna happen ..

Because any rookie has played a single down in the NFL right? And BTW Rex was picked in the 6th round. Todd Wade, McInney, and Wade Smith were all picked before him and they didn't do too hot. I will give you Carey. BUT he was drafted to play LT and he's playing RT. Not saying he's not good, just saying he's not playing LT where he's supposed to be. Lewienski wasn't brought he to start. He's here for depth and because of his link to Cameron. I'm not relying on Toledo to start either. I am relying on Alabi to start because there's a reason we still have him. We would've cut him like all the other o-lineman we've cut if Cam and Houck hadn't seen something in him they like. I'm telling you, read that article and it will show that a good oline can be built without drafting all big names. Look at NE's line. They won 3 championships with a slightly above average oline.

Clan Cameron
04-03-2007, 10:37 PM
Well it has a much MUCH better chance of success. As Miami dolphins history indicates.. Maybe you need to read my post again.. Here it is -

You want a great unit on a team, you need GREAT players.. PERIOD .. And it's about time the Miami offensive line had a great unit - with at least 2 linemen going to Pro Bowls - like we used to have with Webb and Sims .. Two players picked pretty early in the draft by the way .. And it's no wonder we haven't had anything like them since ..

We haven't had anything like them because we pick retreads on the waiver wire, reclamation projects, and guys in the very late rounds.. We get guys like Chris Liwienski - a player who stinks as he was with Arizona last season . Arizona with a bad O-line as well, and they couldn't wait to get rid of one Mr Liwienski ..

It's no coincidence that Carey and Hadnot are our best linemen up front.. Because they were picked earlier than anyone else.. How come Houck couldn't fix an o-lineman, out of all the ones he had available , to be better than at least Hadnot and Carey ?? Hmmmmmmmm ...

Explain that one to me .. How come Houck couln't mold one of the countless bodies at his disposal to be at least as good as Carey or Hadnot ? Again, both players picked early in the draft !

I dont care what coaches have done before, including Houck .. Jimmy Johnson won championships in College and the NFL.. He didn't do jack squat in Miami ..

PS -- And I don't agree with Boomer at all.. It's all based on hypotheticals, unrealistic scenarios ,and "hope" .. Not facts.. Because both guys haven't even played in the NFL to prove anything ..

And here's a fact - Toledo has been injured for 4 of his last 6 season playing football.. Your resting your hope (along with boomer) on that ?? LOL .. Good luck trying to build a championship O-line unit with that kinda hope and desperate measure.. It aint EVER gonna happen ..

Hooray, Hooray, finally somebody who has got something to say!
It's just soo cool to read something other than pick the glamour position posts. The game is won in the trenchs...

Quinn and Russell will be long gone
Ted Ginn is not going to beat out Chambers, Booker, or the wizard of Az
Levi Brown is the logical pick

Drew Stanton at number 2 is a much more risky pick than Ryan Kalil or Ben Grubbs.

Save the glamour picks for next year.. This years backfield should be Ronnie, Ricky, and Lemon, Culpepper or Green.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-03-2007, 10:40 PM
I am relying on Alabi to start because there's a reason we still have him. We would've cut him like all the other o-lineman we've cut if Cam and Houck hadn't seen something in him they like.

Miami didn't cut him because he is young and cheap .. That is the main reason .. There is no link to him starting whatsoever ..

As far as NE , if it was that easy, then there would be no need to ever even draft an o-lineman . But we all know that's not the case..

If you really want to use a real criteria , and a true and more viable sample size - more SB winners over the past 20 seasons have had very good offensive lines, and players drafted pretty highly there ..

musphinzfan
04-03-2007, 10:42 PM
Carey should not play LT from past experience....And I really dont think Brown is a LT so if we draft him my guess is to play the LG/RG position.

Theres no doubt this team needs help on the O-line but not in the 1st...The value just isnt there IMO....Either the 1st 2nd rder or the 2nd 1 is a O-line pick.

Agent51
04-03-2007, 10:47 PM
Because any rookie has played a single down in the NFL right? And BTW Rex was picked in the 6th round. Todd Wade, McInney, and Wade Smith were all picked before him and they didn't do too hot. I will give you Carey. BUT he was drafted to play LT and he's playing RT. Not saying he's not good, just saying he's not playing LT where he's supposed to be. Lewienski wasn't brought he to start. He's here for depth and because of his link to Cameron. I'm not relying on Toledo to start either. I am relying on Alabi to start because there's a reason we still have him. We would've cut him like all the other o-lineman we've cut if Cam and Houck hadn't seen something in him they like. I'm telling you, read that article and it will show that a good oline can be built without drafting all big names. Look at NE's line. They won 3 championships with a slightly above average oline.

This guy (MastR) is starting to remind me a LOT of a certain poster who was banned around this time last year for actions similar to this. People who have been around for awhile know who I'm talking about. This certain poster did the same things MastR is doing, writing threads where it seems only HIS opinion is right, and everyone else's is wrong, and demeaning other's input, and "garunteeing" this and that. The only difference is that the other poster ended up getting banned right after the draft when all of his "garuntees" didn't happen and other posters called him out so he resulted to personal insults.

OneHondo
04-03-2007, 10:52 PM
Well then this offense will forever be screwed ..

We need a coach who looks at the offensive line as a PRIORITY , not with the theory of getting lower end guys and hoping and praying they can become a great unit ..

That theory has FAILED time and time and time again in Miami .. We have one of the worst lines in the league.. And by far the worst in the division.. Time to fix it, and fix it PROPERLY .. With very good players picked early, and not projects or reclamation projects ..



I disagree with your opinion of Quinn, but I agree with your opinion of the offensive line. Its about time that the draft priorities were changed. Quarterbacks and offensive line aren't bargain basement picks you can just fill with second tier talent.

MCHan
04-03-2007, 11:32 PM
Enough is enough.. I am tired of being a team who simply can't control the ball properly because our front wall sucks.. This is our #1 need IMO..

we have snubbed this position for far too long.. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of drafting projects like Alibi late in the draft "hoping" they'll pan out and contribute.. We need to go for the throat in this draft and draft guys that WILL contribute and will make our O-line one of strongest areas instead of the weakest (as it has been for for FAR FAR too long) ..

And it is embarrassing being a dolphins fan when our big guys have been pushovers year in and year out on the offensive front .. One of the first things opposing division fans say when I have talked to them over the past 5 years is - " You're O'line Sucks the Bag ! " .. And I;ve heard it far too often and they were absolutely correct ..

With Ricky and Ronnie, we have the horses to run the ball - now we need to build the wall they run behind.. PERIOD.. Being a top 10 rushing team in the NFL will improve our offense instantly...

Here is my ideas.

The Dolphins need at least two of Kalil, Grubbs, Sears to have a good O-line.. The LT position can be occupied by Carey.. The only OT's that can make an immediate impact are Thomas , Staley and Brown.. 3 guys that will be gone by the 2nd round..

I also wouldn't mind Manny Ramirez if he falls for depth purposes, The strongest lineman in the entire draft..

We need a center to call the plays effectively.. A guy who is smart and is technically sound.. That is Kalil.. So trade down our #9 and move down to about the 13th to 17th spot and get him for sure.

Then you get Sears with the next pick ... Sears can easily play RT as he did in college in spurts (and was VERY effective there) . Then move Carey over to LT and we will finally be good on the O'line..

RT- Sears
RG- Shelton
C- Kalil
LG- Hadnot
LT- Carey

We will be much much improved on the O-line with this scenario.. I would also draft Ramirez or Alleman for depth if one of them lasts till the 4th round..

OR

You draft Ben Grubbs, who will be an Alan Faneca for us for about 10 years .. And keep Hadnot at center (but I think it is IMPERATIVE we get Kalil at center) .. And under this scenario, get Levi Brown in round one.

RT- Carey
RG- Shelton
C- HAdnot
LG- Grubbs
LT-Brown

Ricky and Ronnie will have a field day running on the left side of this line and both Grubbs and Brown are terrific run blockers.. Dominating types.. This alone will help our offense immensely, if we can be a top 10 rushing team in the league .. With two or three very good lineman, this is entirely possible ..

Run the damn ball and keep the very good dolphins d off the field.. Something we couldn't do enough of last season..

You make some good points but then you ruin it by making some bad ones. Quinn would be a 3rd or 4th rounder if he didn't go to Notre Dame? Please.

SF would not trade up to #9 for Patrick Willis. Willis doesn't fit the 3-4 scheme they are trying to run and there are plenty of other players that can help the 49ers at #11.

There have been many great Olines that have been built with a MIX of high and lower picks. I don't think you will see that the Colts or Broncos are stockpiled with 1st and second round picks on the O-line.

Crowder52
04-03-2007, 11:37 PM
This guy (MastR) is starting to remind me a LOT of a certain poster who was banned around this time last year for actions similar to this. People who have been around for awhile know who I'm talking about. This certain poster did the same things MastR is doing, writing threads where it seems only HIS opinion is right, and everyone else's is wrong, and demeaning other's input, and "garunteeing" this and that. The only difference is that the other poster ended up getting banned right after the draft when all of his "garuntees" didn't happen and other posters called him out so he resulted to personal insults.

LOL welcome to FinHeaven! I see these actions in nearly every thread on here.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-04-2007, 05:48 AM
.

Take a look at the 1990 NFL draft where (and who) Miami selected with their first two picks ..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/1990

At pick #9, Miami selects Richmond Webb .. At pick #39, Miami selects Keith Sims .. It's kinda funny that the dolphins have just about the same picks this season (now 17 years later) , at #9 again and at #40 .. And we have the exact same needs now that we had back then ..

Let's hope for the Dolphins sake that they fix the area of greatest concern again and get the O-linemen they need later on this month..

.

miamiron
04-04-2007, 06:12 AM
Enough is enough.. I am tired of being a team who simply can't control the ball properly because our front wall sucks.. This is our #1 need IMO..

we have snubbed this position for far too long.. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of drafting projects like Alibi late in the draft "hoping" they'll pan out and contribute.. We need to go for the throat in this draft and draft guys that WILL contribute and will make our O-line one of strongest areas instead of the weakest (as it has been for for FAR FAR too long) ..

And it is embarrassing being a dolphins fan when our big guys have been pushovers year in and year out on the offensive front .. One of the first things opposing division fans say when I have talked to them over the past 5 years is - " You're O'line Sucks the Bag ! " .. And I;ve heard it far too often and they were absolutely correct ..

With Ricky and Ronnie, we have the horses to run the ball - now we need to build the wall they run behind.. PERIOD.. Being a top 10 rushing team in the NFL will improve our offense instantly...

Here is my ideas.

The Dolphins need at least two of Kalil, Grubbs, Sears to have a good O-line.. The LT position can be occupied by Carey.. The only OT's that can make an immediate impact are Thomas , Staley and Brown.. 3 guys that will be gone by the 2nd round..

I also wouldn't mind Manny Ramirez if he falls for depth purposes, The strongest lineman in the entire draft..

We need a center to call the plays effectively.. A guy who is smart and is technically sound.. That is Kalil.. So trade down our #9 and move down to about the 13th to 17th spot and get him for sure.

Then you get Sears with the next pick ... Sears can easily play RT as he did in college in spurts (and was VERY effective there) . Then move Carey over to LT and we will finally be good on the O'line..

RT- Sears
RG- Shelton
C- Kalil
LG- Hadnot
LT- Carey

We will be much much improved on the O-line with this scenario.. I would also draft Ramirez or Alleman for depth if one of them lasts till the 4th round..

OR

You draft Ben Grubbs, who will be an Alan Faneca for us for about 10 years .. And keep Hadnot at center (but I think it is IMPERATIVE we get Kalil at center) .. And under this scenario, get Levi Brown in round one.

RT- Carey
RG- Shelton
C- HAdnot
LG- Grubbs
LT-Brown

Ricky and Ronnie will have a field day running on the left side of this line and both Grubbs and Brown are terrific run blockers.. Dominating types.. This alone will help our offense immensely, if we can be a top 10 rushing team in the league .. With two or three very good lineman, this is entirely possible ..

Run the damn ball and keep the very good dolphins d off the field.. Something we couldn't do enough of last season..


I love your first scenerio but put Hadnot on the bench and draft Manny Rameriz like you mentioned that way you would have 3 new players and
Vernon who is also young playing together for the next 5 years or so...I would also look for Sheltons replacement in next years draft.

I would go balistic if we could get Sears,Kalil,and Rameriz that would be one hellava start

miamiron
04-04-2007, 06:21 AM
Well then this offense will forever be screwed ..

We need a coach who looks at the offensive line as a PRIORITY , not with the theory of getting lower end guys and hoping and praying they can become a great unit ..

That theory has FAILED time and time and time again in Miami .. We have one of the worst lines in the league.. And by far the worst in the division.. Time to fix it, and fix it PROPERLY .. With very good players picked early, and not projects or reclamation projects ..

I couldn't agree with you more strongly than what you have said.
It is time to invest in the foundation of this offense and it's time to do it the right way!!!!

RUDEbyallMEANS
04-04-2007, 06:41 AM
Joe Toledo's player profile prior to the 2006 NFL Draft:


Negatives: Still learning proper pass blocking technique and while he has the quickness to get out on the edge, he needs to keep his hands more active vs. counter moves...Has a well-built frame, but will need to improve his anchor by increasing his lower body strength...Has had a long history of injuries which bring up concerns about durability, but is the type of athlete who will play with pain.

Toledo might be one of the best-kept secrets in the draft. Old New York Giants fans will remember the days of Doug Riesenberg manning the left tackle position and, like the former Giant, Toledo underwent a possible career change by shifting positions as a senior. A high ankle sprain in the season opener forced him to miss five games, but you saw steady progress as both a blocker and athlete upon his return to the lineup.

Toledo added more than fifty pounds of bulk to his frame in anticipation of the move from tight end, yet he did not lose his natural knee bend and quickness. While his technique is still raw, he has a tremendous work ethic and a frame that continues to grow into the position.

With left tackles usually isolated in pass protection, finding a capable athlete with the quickness, flexibility, balance, body control, speed and agility that Toledo displays is very rare. He is a great program type who will do whatever the coaches ask and is the type who puts in long hours to improve his craft.

Toledo shows good explosion off the snap. He is a decent trap blocker with the speed to get into the second level and has a good feel for taking angles to neutralize the linebackers. He shows good suddenness getting his hands extended to lock on and control the defender and has developed the strength needed to impact and create a surge off the line of scrimmage.

Toledo demonstrates the body control and balance to mirror in pass protection. He is still learning proper hand usage, but when he delivers his punch he will usually shock the defender. He is effective at locating and hitting moving targets and shows the nimble feet to shield the quarterback from the edge rush. He is still developing his kick slide skills, but has the loose hips to redirect and recover when beaten.

Earlier in the position shift, he was more reliant on finesse blocks rather than mauling his opponent, but with each game he developed good aggression and started to maul his opponent regularly. He has the long arms to maintain separation and outstanding foot balance to slide and gain leverage. Some teams might get scared over his history of injuries, but it is evident that he is one of the most athletic prospects in this draft. With patient coaching and Toledo's work ethic, someone could get a mid-round steal.

After one full year of learning under Houck, I'm pretty confident Toledo will make a solid contribution this year.

finfan54
04-04-2007, 07:08 AM
I hear ya brother.. I am certain the dolphins can trade down in round one as I believe one of Willis, Peterson or someone else will be available at #9 .. San Fran , Buffalo and the Rams all covet Willis and I am sure we can trade our #9 and move down to one of those 3 teams..

What I am saying is, instead of having 5 picks in the top 113 picks, we can add a 6th pick of the top 113 picks and this is how it can help us :

So, my #1 preference is to trade down to about #12 to #17 then take Kalil .. We need a center ! And he will be an All-Pro .. I guarantee it !! And drafting him would be like adding two O-lineman because that would mean Hadnot will be moving over to Guard - And he is much better there anyway ..

A WIN WIN situation if you ask me .. Plus we'll add another much needed pick by moving down a little .. And get another good player..

So by trading down, we will essentially be adding an all pro center in Kalil.. We will be adding a good guard in Hadnot , and we may add yet another o-lineman with that other pick we get by moving down..

So in essence, we get 3 players for one ..

That one trade down can ultimately go a long way to fix our offensive line problems greatly IMO. Something that is LONG LONG overdue ..

Of those 6 picks in the 113 range, we can easily get 3 very good offensive lineman who will greatly help us.. AND we may be able to get a Drew Stanton to groom, and get a player like Rice at WR and maybe a corner ..

Like I said, trading down is a WIN WIN situation.. Kalil will easily be the best center we will have since the great Dwight Stephenson days .. Kalil will be a Pro-Bowler, and we need him in the worst way possible ..


Easier said than done. You need a dance partner for that, but guys like Mueller will have contigent deals maybe in place on draft day should someone big fall into our lap that they really will do without.

If Quinn falls, I think its a done deal that we take him henceforth, no traded down. Willis is a guy that could be trade down material for us. If we did not have Zach, this guy would likely be our pick. Teams like Buffalo will want him as well as others who are around the 11-15 area and beyond possibly.

finfan54
04-04-2007, 07:11 AM
Joe Toledo's player profile prior to the 2006 NFL Draft:



After one full year of learning under Houck, I'm pretty confident Toledo will make a solid contribution this year.


Im not confident in Mr. Glass. Even if he shows something in camp and ends up starting, I would fully expect a serious injury at some point. I think its healthier for us to assume the worst with Toledo so anything we get from him is bonus points and we have the future in place learning and growing.

finfan54
04-04-2007, 07:13 AM
.

Take a look at the 1990 NFL draft where (and who) Miami selected with their first two picks ..

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/years/1990

At pick #9, Miami selects Richmond Webb .. At pick #39, Miami selects Keith Sims .. It's kinda funny that the dolphins have just about the same picks this season (now 17 years later) , at #9 again and at #40 .. And we have the exact same needs now that we had back then ..

Let's hope for the Dolphins sake that they fix the area of greatest concern again and get the O-linemen they need later on this month..

.


Amen.

PHINSfan
04-04-2007, 08:52 AM
Dont forget tht coach Cam has said that he will be building from the center out. A player that they are scouting very much is Hawaii's center Samson Satele. When Hawaii was having is pro day guess who was running the drills for interior linemen? our o-line coach H. Also the word around the VIP lounge is that the LT that's really going way up as of lately is Central Michigan Joe Staley. Keep an eye on both of those guys....specially if we trade down. Boomer has said that if we do trade down then Staley is probably our guy.

jim1
04-04-2007, 09:33 AM
Joe Toledo's player profile prior to the 2006 NFL Draft:



After one full year of learning under Houck, I'm pretty confident Toledo will make a solid contribution this year.

OK- after reading that I'm wondering even more why he was moved from tackle to guard. An uber-athletic finesse blocker. Sure, why not, make him a guard.

I'd rather see him battle Alabi for the LT position.

NathanHunt
04-04-2007, 10:27 AM
I was originally a Kahlil guy.

But, having read a few draft prospect sheets from different sites and a few comments from our staff about the "type" of OLinemen we want.... and I've quickly become a Samson Satele guy.

My current draft wish list is:

Round 1 - Levi Brown LT
Round 2a - Justin Blalock LG
Round 2b - Samson Satele C
Round 3 - Paul Soliai DT/NT

I'm also hearing great things about Joe Staley LT. I'd be happy with him as well at LT.

I've read a few things about Blalock (which doesn't make me his agent) and it SEEMS his forte' is a "pulling" mauler who can road grade.

In most of my years of watching DOMINANT run games by non-zone blocking OLines, it always seems that the elite units have a mammoth pulling LG that penetrates into the second tier very well and opens holes 5 - 10 yards downfield.

A good example of this Jamie Nails in Ricky's 1800 yard season and Larry Allen (when healthy) in Frank Gore's 2006 campaign and his years blocking for Dallas.

A dominant LG can do wonders for a running game.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-04-2007, 10:30 AM
Dont forget tht coach Cam has said that he will be building from the center out. A player that they are scouting very much is Hawaii's center Samson Satele. When Hawaii was having is pro day guess who was running the drills for interior linemen? our o-line coach H. Also the word around the VIP lounge is that the LT that's really going way up as of lately is Central Michigan Joe Staley. Keep an eye on both of those guys....specially if we trade down. Boomer has said that if we do trade down then Staley is probably our guy.

Oh boy.. I wouldn't mind if we got both Staley and Satele .. And maybe get Manny Ramirez for insurance and we'd be set ..

LT- Staley
LG- Hadnot
C- Satele
RG- Shelton (Ramirez goes here after Shelton leaves) .
RT- Carey

Come on, being in South Florida you gotta draft a guy by the name of Manny Ramirez .. Especially when he's the strongest guy at his position in his draft year .. For his name alone, he'd be a fan favorite in Miami .

dan the fin
04-04-2007, 10:38 AM
My problem with the O-line thing is we should not draft one at #9 cause there is just no O-line close to being worth that pick except Thomas. Sorry and all this Brown stuff is old he was a 2nd to 3rd rounder untill Sr. Bowl. Why don't people go back and watch him play all year long. He gave upmore sacks then some top notch guys do in there whole college career. He could not handle the edge speed rushers in college how will he do it in the NFL, he is a RT not a LT. Just watch the Mich game he was dominated by Woodley. If Barker from USC was in this draft then u would not hear Brown going that high at all, there is a lack of top end LT's in this draft so he is just the next best and rising up draft boards.

PHINSfan
04-04-2007, 10:39 AM
Oh boy.. I wouldn't mind if we got both Staley and Satele .. And maybe get Manny Ramirez for insurance and we'd be set ..

LT- Staley
LG- Hadnot
C- Satele
RG- Shelton (Ramirez goes here after Shelton leaves) .
RT- Carey

Come on, being in South Florida you gotta draft a guy by the name of Manny Ramirez .. Especially when he's the strongest guy at his position in his draft year .. For his name alone, he'd be a fan favorite in Miami .

Now that would be a heck of an O-line!!
R & R would have a field day!!!

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-04-2007, 10:40 AM
A dominant LG can do wonders for a running game.

Which is why I want Grubbs .. He's the best guard out of the SEC since Alan Faneca many are saying ..

I have heard from too many people that Blalock will be somewhat of a bust, or not as good as people think he'll be .. I read about Blalock's senior bowl practices that he had for 4 days prior to the game .. . Blalock was getting routinely beaten by Tyler and a few other defensive tackles .. He got soundly beaten on more plays than plays he made .. And that was every day for 5 days .

Blalock had one of , if not THE worst performances of any lineman there ..

I'd take Grubbs over him by a mile .. Even Sears , Beekman and Ramirez over him , from what we know .

NathanHunt
04-04-2007, 10:55 AM
Which is why I want Grubbs .. He's the best guard out of the SEC since Alan Faneca many are saying ..

I have heard from too many people that Blalock will be somewhat of a bust, or not as good as people think he'll be .. I read about Blalock's senior bowl practices that he had for 4 days prior to the game .. . Blalock was getting routinely beaten by Tyler and a few other defensive tackles .. He got soundly beaten on more plays than plays he made .. And that was every day for 5 days .

Blalock had one of , if not THE worst performances of any lineman there ..

I'd take Grubbs over him by a mile .. Even Sears , Beekman and Ramirez over him , from what we know .

As you probably saw in my last post, I used to be a Kahlil guy, before I did some reading up on Satele.

I think too often, many arguments regarding the draft get heated because 2 guys like 2 different players at the same position. Frankly, I don't really care WHO we draft by name, I just want the best player for Miami at LT, LG, C and DT/NT. As you can tell, I'm not citing an argument, just saying your "guys" might be better than Blalock.... but, for me, most importantly is that we address those 4 positions with the best possible drafting by our FO.

We need high caliber players at those positions for this team to truly blossom. We've neglected the OLine so long, it's affecting our entire offense. It's hindering Ronnie, Ricky, CPepp (or whomever our QB is), CC, Booker, etc....

Fans drool over big money names at skill positions, but want to "cheap" on the most integral unit on the offensive side.

I think our Oline has sucked for so many years, the fans have lost appreciation for a great line and constantly believe we need more star power. When in actuality, we simply need a good/great OLine.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-04-2007, 10:57 AM
Sorry and all this Brown stuff is old he was a 2nd to 3rd rounder untill Sr. Bowl. Why don't people go back and watch him play all year long. He gave upmore sacks then some top notch guys do in there whole college career. He could not handle the edge speed rushers in college how will he do it in the NFL, he is a RT not a LT. Just watch the Mich game he was dominated by Woodley. If Barker from USC was in this draft then u would not hear Brown going that high at all, there is a lack of top end LT's in this draft so he is just the next best and rising up draft boards.

I heard Brown gave up less than 5 total sacks in 4 years at LT ..I could be wrong, but if that's true, I don't see how he has a problem with what you are saying here..

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-04-2007, 11:02 AM
We need high caliber players at those positions for this team to truly blossom. We've neglected the OLine so long, it's affecting our entire offense. It's hindering Ronnie, Ricky, CPepp (or whomever our QB is), CC, Booker, etc....

Fans drool over big money names at skill positions, but want to "cheap" on the most integral unit on the offensive side.

I think our Oline has sucked for so many years, the fans have lost appreciation for a great line and constantly believe we need more star power. When in actuality, we simply need a good/great OLine.

I couldn't agree with that sentiment more .. It all starts at the line .. The skill positions may be the lightning fast bullets.. But the offensive line in the Gun ..

Just look at the line Miami had the last time they won the super bowl.. Case closed ..

dan the fin
04-04-2007, 11:13 AM
I heard Brown gave up less than 5 total sacks in 4 years at LT ..I could be wrong, but if that's true, I don't see how he has a problem with what you are saying here..

I would be very suprised if that stat was true he gave up at least 2 in the Mich game alone. And was dominated that game. Plus I have read many scouting reports that that says he struggles against speed rushers. But I am baseing this more off watching him play, cause I like to watch someone play before making my final judgment. hey just my opinion though so take fo what u want.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-04-2007, 11:15 AM
Don't get me wrong, I am not crazy about Brown.. I think he's too short to play LT at 6'4.. And I agree his footwork is not top echelon.. I just read somewhere he gave up 5 sacks in 4 years ..

dan the fin
04-04-2007, 11:27 AM
Don't get me wrong, I am not crazy about Brown.. I think he's too short to play LT at 6'4.. And I agree his footwork is not top echelon.. I just read somewhere he gave up 5 sacks in 4 years ..

I am not saying u are wrong or anything. I was just saying I would have a hard time believing that just off the games I have seen he play. Plus who knows how they do those stats anyway cause they are not official and based of a persons judgement as well.

BlueFin
04-04-2007, 11:33 AM
I believe we will draft at least two O-lineman in the first 4 rounds, it is not imperative we go there in round one, and frankly I'm not sure there is value there, Levi Brown is the only one after Thomas that might be worth number 9.

I think one 2nd rounder for sure will be O-line, and if they both aren't you'll see another drafted in round 3 or 4.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 01:28 AM
Save the glamour picks for next year..

Agree ... The people who want Ginn jr, or are saying we need to draft low end guys on the O-line later in the draft (desperately hoping Houck can wave a magic wand upon them), are clearly myopic at best (no offense to any of those people) .

Consider , so we have a right tackle who's about average in the league .. But, we have a journeyman tackle playing RG and is forced to play there because he sucks so much at tackle .. . We have a guard who has been forced to play center, who just happens to be below average there ( I'd take any center in our division playing center over Hadnot - a guy who can't even recognize formations to make line calls properly because he's too dumb upstairs ).. . And we have no LG and no LT to speak of whatsoever ..

What a pathetic mess !!! :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: :shakeno: <-- our O-line

If this doesn't send very loud alarm signals that we need to draft HIGH for O-Lineman, nothing will get the message across for some people .. Forget Ginn jr and all your myopic wishes, this team needs O-line more than anything else . By far !

Our O-Line, as it stands, is a rag tag group of total garbage .. Worst in the league bar none ..

Tupac Shakur
04-05-2007, 01:46 AM
49ers won't trade up because Houston is the team after us and they're not interested in him. The Bills have so many needs right now that they can't afford to trade up. The Rams maybe, but they are also very interested in Okoye so they may just stay there and see who falls to them between Willis and Okoye. I kinda agree with you o-line post, but it's not Cam's or Houck's style to draft o-line in the early rounds. I see maybe Staley if he falls to our #40 pick, but other than that it seems they are going to draft low-key guys. If we get Staley in the 2nd, our o-line i set this year IMO

LT: Staley
LG: Alabi
C: Hadnot
RG: Shelton
RT: Carey

I think the reason they are trying to stockpile all these late round picks is to draft a majority of the o-line picks then and use earlier picks on QBs, WRs, TEs, and maybe even DB. O-line is easier to COACH then WRs, QBs, TEs, and DBs.

chris liewinski > alabi

Elliott 1
04-05-2007, 04:24 AM
Enough is enough.. I am tired of being a team who simply can't control the ball properly because our front wall sucks.. This is our #1 need IMO..

we have snubbed this position for far too long.. I am sick and tired of being sick and tired of drafting projects like Alibi late in the draft "hoping" they'll pan out and contribute.. We need to go for the throat in this draft and draft guys that WILL contribute and will make our O-line one of strongest areas instead of the weakest (as it has been for for FAR FAR too long) ..

And it is embarrassing being a dolphins fan when our big guys have been pushovers year in and year out on the offensive front .. One of the first things opposing division fans say when I have talked to them over the past 5 years is - " You're O'line Sucks the Bag ! " .. And I;ve heard it far too often and they were absolutely correct ..

With Ricky and Ronnie, we have the horses to run the ball - now we need to build the wall they run behind.. PERIOD.. Being a top 10 rushing team in the NFL will improve our offense instantly...

Here is my ideas.

The Dolphins need at least two of Kalil, Grubbs, Sears to have a good O-line.. The LT position can be occupied by Carey.. The only OT's that can make an immediate impact are Thomas , Staley and Brown.. 3 guys that will be gone by the 2nd round..

I also wouldn't mind Manny Ramirez if he falls for depth purposes, The strongest lineman in the entire draft..

We need a center to call the plays effectively.. A guy who is smart and is technically sound.. That is Kalil.. So trade down our #9 and move down to about the 13th to 17th spot and get him for sure.

Then you get Sears with the next pick ... Sears can easily play RT as he did in college in spurts (and was VERY effective there) . Then move Carey over to LT and we will finally be good on the O'line..

RT- Sears
RG- Shelton
C- Kalil
LG- Hadnot
LT- Carey

We will be much much improved on the O-line with this scenario.. I would also draft Ramirez or Alleman for depth if one of them lasts till the 4th round..

OR

You draft Ben Grubbs, who will be an Alan Faneca for us for about 10 years .. And keep Hadnot at center (but I think it is IMPERATIVE we get Kalil at center) .. And under this scenario, get Levi Brown in round one.

RT- Carey
RG- Shelton
C- HAdnot
LG- Grubbs
LT-Brown

Ricky and Ronnie will have a field day running on the left side of this line and both Grubbs and Brown are terrific run blockers.. Dominating types.. This alone will help our offense immensely, if we can be a top 10 rushing team in the league .. With two or three very good lineman, this is entirely possible ..

Run the damn ball and keep the very good dolphins d off the field.. Something we couldn't do enough of last season..

I think you underestimate Doug Free who is an excellent athlete at 6'7" 324 pounds. He played injured all year last year and still had a very good year. He may in fact turn out to be better than Levi Brown and a steal with our third round pick or even our #60.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 04:27 AM
Doug Free ? He got beaten like a drum repeatedly ( at I think the East-West practices ) .. Read the practice reports. He wouldn't be any better than Shelton at LT (who stinks there himself) ..

The guy with the potential for what you are saying at LT, is Mike Otto out of Purdue .. I hope the fins nab this guy .. I have a good feeling about him ..


NFL Draft Scouting Report - Mike Otto

Played in the East West Shrine Game and had a dominant performance … Played at RT … Showcased mobility, nastiness, quickness at the snap and positioning and delivered several pancake blocks … Completely shut down Larry Birdine in the game … Also, read a stunt well to pick up the blitz … Good run blocker … Good leader … Played LT for Purdue … Average size … Runs a sub-5.1 forty

College career -

Fifth Year

Senior Year

Honorable mention All-Big Ten by coaches and media ... Academic All-Big Ten ... started all 11 games at left tackle ... part of offensive line that allowed merely nine sacks out of 428 passing attempts (one every 47.6 passes) ... nine sacks allowed are fewest by a Joe Tiller-coached Purdue team.

Junior Year

Started all 12 games at left tackle ... part of offensive line that helped Boilermakers rank fourth in nation in passing offense at 321.2 yards per game.

Sophmore Year

Received team's Most Improved Award -- Offense for spring season ... named first team Freshman All-American by Collegefootballnews.com, Rivals.com and The Sporting News ... selected to Big Ten All-Freshman team by The Sporting News ... honorable mention All-Big Ten by coaches and media ... Academic All-Big Ten ... started all 13 games at left tackle ... recorded 24 pancake blocks ... graded out at 80 percent or better in eight games ... recorded season-high three pancakes with 88 percent grade vs. Bowling Green on Sept. 6 ... equaled season high of three pancakes at Wake Forest on Sept. 13 ... graded out at season-high 89 percent vs. Arizona on Sept. 20 ... had third three-pancake game vs. Illinois on Oct. 4 ... played season-high 100 snaps at Wisconsin on Oct. 18 ... graded out at 85 percent (tied for best on team with Nick Hardwick and Matt Turner) at Ohio State on Nov. 15