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View Full Version : Quantity over quality= trade down



darsey
04-04-2007, 07:42 PM
Early this year, Randy Mueller made a comment that they were going to approach free agency and the draft with a "quantity over quality" mentality. Thus far, in free agency, we have not seen an influx of talent at any level. This makes me think that Randy is going to try to get more picks by trading our first round pick. I am not sure that you can get the maximum value for the ninth pick (most teams that are looking to trade up have fallen in love with a player that will be gone before the 9th pick), but I think if we find a willing partner and a good deal Randy will trade down/back in a heartbeat. I, for one, would support this type of a move because we have a lot of areas that need talent upgrades and we also need some youth. Lastly, this would be a way for Cam and Randy to put their stamp on this team without spending a lot of money in free agency.

This is one mans opinion....... your thoughts

jim1
04-04-2007, 08:13 PM
Early this year, Randy Mueller made a comment that they were going to approach free agency and the draft with a "quantity over quality" mentality. Thus far, in free agency, we have not seen an influx of talent at any level. This makes me think that Randy is going to try to get more picks by trading our first round pick. I am not sure that you can get the maximum value for the ninth pick (most teams that are looking to trade up have fallen in love with a player that will be gone before the 9th pick), but I think if we find a willing partner and a good deal Randy will trade down/back in a heartbeat. I, for one, would support this type of a move because we have a lot of areas that need talent upgrades and we also need some youth. Lastly, this would be a way for Cam and Randy to put their stamp on this team without spending a lot of money in free agency.

This is one mans opinion....... your thoughts

I agree. Time to slide down.

Dolfan32323
04-04-2007, 09:44 PM
If (and probably) Quinn isn't there I would consider a trade down.

zach8111
04-04-2007, 09:49 PM
why would you trade quality for quantity. if you get at least 1 great player then it is a good draft. if you just go for quantity, that puts us is the same situation as before the draft. we NEED quality players. you can get quantity in FA, you have to get quality in the draft.

musphinzfan
04-04-2007, 10:00 PM
Well for the most part we should always try to get more picks but if you can move up to get a guy u think will make a big impact at the right value u do it this way.

Elliott 1
04-04-2007, 10:02 PM
Early this year, Randy Mueller made a comment that they were going to approach free agency and the draft with a "quantity over quality" mentality. Thus far, in free agency, we have not seen an influx of talent at any level. This makes me think that Randy is going to try to get more picks by trading our first round pick. I am not sure that you can get the maximum value for the ninth pick (most teams that are looking to trade up have fallen in love with a player that will be gone before the 9th pick), but I think if we find a willing partner and a good deal Randy will trade down/back in a heartbeat. I, for one, would support this type of a move because we have a lot of areas that need talent upgrades and we also need some youth. Lastly, this would be a way for Cam and Randy to put their stamp on this team without spending a lot of money in free agency.

This is one mans opinion....... your thoughts

Absa-fraggin-lutely

All the guys we really are looking at are mid to late 1st round anyway. In fact if the deal was right, we could trade completely out of the first round and do great.

Houston,Staley,Ginn,Meachem,Griffin,Sears,Blaylock,Grubbs, etc. etc. are all going to be available down the line.

I would take Pittsburghs 2nd,3rd, 4th, and 5th for our 1st, wouldn't you.

Don't laugh, they have two high comp picks and no room on their roster.

They will probably be trading up with someone.

MustangFinFan
04-04-2007, 10:13 PM
has quantity helped us the past 5 years??? NO. we need QUALITY guys...sure the Patriots could do it...but we have tried drafting sleepers...hasnt worked yet. i wouldnt be opposed to trading our #9 to get a later 1st and extra 2nd tho...there's so much we can do in the 2nd round with that. im surprised that a guy like drew stanton would go in the 2nd...so many teams need a QB badly...ud think Stanton would go early.

darsey
04-04-2007, 11:14 PM
I am with you on that. I am not saying that we should get a bunch of 6th round picks, but an extra second would be nice. Go for Staley in the late first round and then address qb(stanton), Wr(Rice or Gonzalez), and have an at large pick for the best player available.

Regan21286
04-04-2007, 11:50 PM
Quantity only works if the some of the players you get pan out. You can draft as many players as you want but if none of them are as good as that one quality player, you lose out.

RichmondWeb
04-05-2007, 12:30 AM
I'm always for trading down. JJ did well with ZT,JT, we had like 14 picks and some of them busted. But so do many first rounders and they usually don't get as long to learn as later round guys before they get thrown on the field. The other thing is the cap, high picks=high$$$. It is better to slide down even if you don't get all the compensation you want, just to get some more amicable salaries. It can ruin a team picking high and then paying millions to a top 10 bust! I think we can trade down this year because other teams will want players badly at #9. Landry, Peterson, Willis, OKoye, etc some of these guys will be there and someone will be calling. Good point about Pitt, we could use those picks, let them roll the dice on #9.

RW

craig
04-05-2007, 02:44 AM
I think we are looking at Quinn and if hes not there,we trade our pick depending who slides to us at 9. IMO :cooldude:

Agent51
04-05-2007, 02:53 AM
Quantity over Quality is a horrible outlook. Do 30 crappy players have more value than 3 or 4 great players? We have seen plenty of times that one or two stars can work wonders with little (see, Patriots), but no stars never amount to much (Texans).

Quinn could make things happen with Chambers/Booker/Hakim/Hagan, plus we would prolly go WR in the 2nd round, so add whomeevr that is to the list too, and Brown at RB.

I think giving up a few picks for Quinn is a better strategy than amassing more but LOWER picks for players. Our biggest problem was QB last year (O-line was close, but not worse than QB). Our biggest problem has been QB since Marino left. We've had good lines, average lines, and bad lines since then and we still haven't won any SBs (and BARELY made the playoffs a couple times). So I don't see how getting a stacked line in this draft would help much with Culpepper and Cleo Lemon under center. I'd rather have a average O-line and a stud QB thn a great O-line and a crap QB. Take Quinn, give us a stud QB (it's what he projects as, and don't say he could bust because so could whatever OLs we take, ANYONE can), then take OL in round 2 or even 3. I don't see the talent being an INSANE amount of difference this year. Joe Thomas isn't even a super polished player and he's projected top 5, yet Kalil, Satele, Sears etc are all projected round 2 and have similar scouting reports.

craig
04-05-2007, 03:08 AM
agree with agent51

SgtPhin
04-05-2007, 07:30 AM
Agent 51, you sound like I raised you. So far you've done an admirable job of expressing my thoughts, keep it up and I'm going to get paranoid!

Elliott 1
04-05-2007, 08:38 AM
You guys are really distorting what Mueller actually said back then. It was the beginning of the free agency period and he was talking about not paying exorbitant prices for hyped up FA's and going broke quick. He also at that time indicated he wanted to have an infusion of youth and build through the draft.
He is doing exactly what he said he was going to do and it is good.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 08:58 AM
Quantity over Quality is a horrible outlook.

That makes no sense . Because then, I guess it was a horrible outlook when Jimmy Johnson preferred quantity and got players like Zach Thomas in the 5th, Jason Taylor in the 3rd, and Madison, Patrick Surtain on defense etc etc .

The only way it can be described as a "horrible" outlook is if you have bad management drafting the players.. Under that scenario, it would be a horrible outlook both ways anyway .

But if you have astute management and someone adept at drafting, such as Mueller - and you have a team with so many weaknesses like Miami has, quantity is the way to go first and foremost ..

Miami is already behind a ton of picks because Wannstedt blew alot of opportunities and wasted picks.. Which is why Miami stinks now and we are in the position we are in .. Miami now, needs picks to recoup, to get on an even platform - to have a chance .. Even with astute management on their side, it will still be an uphill climb ..

Going for one quality player (who mind you may be a bust in and of itself) , and neglecting the rest of the holes on a 6-10 team is what would be described (and perceived) as a "horrible outlook" .. And an extremely myopic and irresponsible way to build a team properly ..

Especially when one considers we are dealing with a team that has little to no offense , and an aging defense ..

To sacrifice the filling out of a roster, by going for one player (who may never even become a player) , in a team game with about 50 players on it, with the amount of problems this team has - is a pop gun approach at best ..

PhinfanUK
04-05-2007, 09:33 AM
I have a hard time believing Mueller actually said "Quantity over Quality", that philosophy would lead to disaster. I do agree on trading down however, IF Quinn doesn't fall to us. I think two of our first three picks will be O-line, so maybe we trade down towards the bottom of round 1 and take Ugoh, Blaylock and Stanton or Edwards in round 2.

PhinfanUK
04-05-2007, 09:37 AM
That makes no sense . Because then, I guess it was a horrible outlook when Jimmy Johnson preferred quantity and got players like Zach Thomas in the 5th, Jason Taylor in the 3rd, and Madison, Patrick Surtain on defense etc etc .


Your argument doesn't represent quantity, it represents quality because JJ took the best players. You don't turn down a great player for three average ones.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 09:40 AM
Your argument doesn't represent quantity, it represents quality because JJ took the best players. You don't turn down a great player for three average ones.

I guess you didn't read my post fully .. ie - the astute management point I made ..

ps- If Zach was one of the best players in the draft, why was he picked in the 5th round ?-- this fully ties in with the person who started this thread - and his point about acquiring picks (ie- getting a quantity of picks instead trading up for a quality player ) .

Thats the whole point , and the crux of this thread .

DeDolfan
04-05-2007, 09:55 AM
Early this year, Randy Mueller made a comment that they were going to approach free agency and the draft with a "quantity over quality" mentality. Thus far, in free agency, we have not seen an influx of talent at any level. This makes me think that Randy is going to try to get more picks by trading our first round pick. I am not sure that you can get the maximum value for the ninth pick (most teams that are looking to trade up have fallen in love with a player that will be gone before the 9th pick), but I think if we find a willing partner and a good deal Randy will trade down/back in a heartbeat. I, for one, would support this type of a move because we have a lot of areas that need talent upgrades and we also need some youth. Lastly, this would be a way for Cam and Randy to put their stamp on this team without spending a lot of money in free agency.

This is one mans opinion....... your thoughts

Generally speaking, yes, particularly the way this draft is stacked. But it would depend on the "quantity" you're speaking of. If we're talking about moving down to the middle of the rnd and pick up another 2nd rnder, then sure. If you're talking "Jimmy Johnson" and wind up with a kazillion 6th and 7th rndrers then no. IMO, there is this "delicate balance" involved and don't want to fall off the ledge!! ;)

PhinfanUK
04-05-2007, 10:04 AM
I guess you didn't read my post fully .. ie - the astute management point I made ..

ps- If Zach was one of the best players in the draft, why was he picked in the 5th round ?-- this fully ties in with the person who started this thread - and his point about acquiring picks (ie- getting a quantity of picks instead trading up for a quality player ) .

Thats the whole point , and the crux of this thread .

Yes, but JJ saw that quality in Zach, which is why he drafted him. "Quantity over Quality" implies we would rather take a large number of sub-par players over the best players. Clearly Zach and JT were among the best players, look at the results. If we were to draft five third rounders that made the pro bowl, I would regard that as Quality over Quantity, not the other way round.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 10:17 AM
I would regard that as Quality over Quantity, not the other way round.

You still don't understand .. All because you trade down and acquire picks (hence the "quantity" argument as this is acquiring more quantity of picks) doesn't mean you can't find some quality players with that quantity of picks.. With astute management in place, it can be done .. Read my original post again about this ..

I think you should raise an issue with the other poster who assumes we can't get some quality players by trading down.. That's who you should direct to, because essentially you seem to be agreeing with me here.

darsey
04-05-2007, 10:29 AM
If we're talking about moving down to the middle of the rnd and pick up another 2nd rnder, then sure. If you're talking "Jimmy Johnson" and wind up with a kazillion 6th and 7th rndrers then no. IMO, there is this "delicate balance" involved and don't want to fall off the ledge!!

I think we are on the same page here. I simply meant trading down to another first day pick..... I tried to clarify this in some of my later posts.

DeDolfan
04-05-2007, 10:30 AM
I think we are on the same page here. I simply meant trading down to another first day pick..... I tried to clarify this in some of my later posts.


I had figured as much!! ;)

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 12:02 PM
Yep, trading down is the best move here . This is a deep draft and we can plug quite a few holes with our 9 picks and if we are able to trade down and acquire an extra pick or 2 on top of that .

Agent51
04-05-2007, 12:14 PM
That makes no sense . Because then, I guess it was a horrible outlook when Jimmy Johnson preferred quantity and got players like Zach Thomas in the 5th, Jason Taylor in the 3rd, and Madison, Patrick Surtain on defense etc etc .

The only way it can be described as a "horrible" outlook is if you have bad management drafting the players.. Under that scenario, it would be a horrible outlook both ways anyway .

But if you have astute management and someone adept at drafting, such as Mueller - and you have a team with so many weaknesses like Miami has, quantity is the way to go first and foremost ..

Miami is already behind a ton of picks because Wannstedt blew alot of opportunities and wasted picks.. Which is why Miami stinks now and we are in the position we are in .. Miami now, needs picks to recoup, to get on an even platform - to have a chance .. Even with astute management on their side, it will still be an uphill climb ..

Going for one quality player (who mind you may be a bust in and of itself) , and neglecting the rest of the holes on a 6-10 team is what would be described (and perceived) as a "horrible outlook" .. And an extremely myopic and irresponsible way to build a team properly ..

Especially when one considers we are dealing with a team that has little to no offense , and an aging defense ..

To sacrifice the filling out of a roster, by going for one player (who may never even become a player) , in a team game with about 50 players on it, with the amount of problems this team has - is a pop gun approach at best ..

First, with the picks we have now, we can draft to fill both need and depth. I have made 2 different mocks, and I have seen others both on here and from the "experts" that have us gettting great players at positions of need with picks 1-3/4, and the rest being good players at positions of depth, so there's isn't a reason to trade down.

Yeah, a "quility" player could bust, but ANY player could. The reason a "qulity" player is labeled so is because the there is a minimal chance he will bust. "Quantity" players have a bigger chance, they just SEEM like a safe pick becasue they aren't high up. I'm sorry, but I'd rather have one "Quality" player bust than have 6 "Quantity" players bust. 1 bad choice to 6 bad choices, hmmm?

Anyone who doesn;t see the need at QB is blond. Tedd Ginn isn't the answer. For one, who throws it to him? We already have a Pro Bowl WR (and HAD a Pro Bowl TE in McMike) who had a WRETCHED year last year because of our QB sitution, why would an unproven rookie who hasn't even worked out because he STILL has a sprain 3 months after STUPIDLY injuring it on a CELEBRATION make any difference? Also, he is way undersized. 5-11, 178 is just BEGGING to be speared across the middle. Plus he isn't aggressive against the jam and he runs poor routes. Sorry, NOT who I want at #9 (or anywhere in the 1st), ESPECIALLY when we have no QB.

O-Line? Yea, OK, you can protect a crappy QB and he'll still be crappy. I already said it before, we have run the gamut of O-line status since Dan left. We've been good, mediocre, and down right awful at line, and have out results changed ANY? No, so obviously the problem isn';t ALL the line. So let's see, what othe rposition has been horrible for us since the departure of a HoF player who played it? Yea, Q-friggin'-B.

Do what you have to and move up and get Quinn. Show some initiative and finally take the damn step that should have been taken 8 years ago and COMMIT to a young QB. Sure, Quinn COULD bust, but he COULD be a Hall of Famer. His upside is greater than his downside, and since we can't predict where we will pick in upcoming years (unless we throw games like you want) we need to jump on this opportunity NOW. We take Quinn and we still have a couple good players available in round 2 at OT/OG/C. I'd MUCH rather take QB in 1 and OL in 2 than the other way around. It's harder to come by true QB talent the later the rounds go (aside from VRY rare cases like Brady and Hasselbeck), it's not as hard to find OL talent there.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 12:26 PM
First off, I don't know why your skirting the issue by bringing up Ted Ginn.. Why are you even writing a paragraph about him ? And please tell me where I once condoned drafting him ? Please provide a link for that .

And, your thinking is shady because you think Quinn will be some sort of hall of famer .. He has Ryan Leaf written all over him .. I have seen his college games and I see absolutely nothing that would quantify him as a potential hall of famer .. That is absolutely ridiculous when watching the guy play .

The guy comes off as brood, snotty - as if he has some sort of "entitlement" coming to him (a word one poster said here) .. The guy hasn't proven anything ..

He will be another Carr at best .. And Carr , who is already NFL ready mind you, can be had without sacrificing the future by giving up a 1st round pick ++ for ..

ps- And your mocks are far fetched .. Your mock means nothing in reality to the draft.. No offense to you because no mock does .

zach8111
04-05-2007, 12:29 PM
That makes no sense . Because then, I guess it was a horrible outlook when Jimmy Johnson preferred quantity and got players like Zach Thomas in the 5th, Jason Taylor in the 3rd, and Madison, Patrick Surtain on defense etc etc .

The only way it can be described as a "horrible" outlook is if you have bad management drafting the players.. Under that scenario, it would be a horrible outlook both ways anyway .

But if you have astute management and someone adept at drafting, such as Mueller - and you have a team with so many weaknesses like Miami has, quantity is the way to go first and foremost ..

Miami is already behind a ton of picks because Wannstedt blew alot of opportunities and wasted picks.. Which is why Miami stinks now and we are in the position we are in .. Miami now, needs picks to recoup, to get on an even platform - to have a chance .. Even with astute management on their side, it will still be an uphill climb ..

Going for one quality player (who mind you may be a bust in and of itself) , and neglecting the rest of the holes on a 6-10 team is what would be described (and perceived) as a "horrible outlook" .. And an extremely myopic and irresponsible way to build a team properly ..

Especially when one considers we are dealing with a team that has little to no offense , and an aging defense ..

To sacrifice the filling out of a roster, by going for one player (who may never even become a player) , in a team game with about 50 players on it, with the amount of problems this team has - is a pop gun approach at best ..
yes i will give you that but only JT and ZT are still on this team, and we got those guys with our regular draft picks. we didnt get those picks from a trade. all we have been doing recently is getting average to below average players, and that is all you will get with quantity drafting with very few exceptions. if we would have gotten at least one quality player every draft we wouldnt have so many needs. we have alot of average players on our team. we need quality players. FA is for quantity.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 12:36 PM
First, with the picks we have now, we can draft to fill both need and depth. .

Huh ?? How many of those picks are in the 6th and 7th round ?? After you waste two on your average QB, how many are left ?? You think the rest of the picks will fill all the holes on this team ? AND you think the picks will fill depth as well ?

Come on !!

You must be one very VERY optimistic dolphin fan to think Miami is that close to being a contender ..

cnc66
04-05-2007, 12:46 PM
Anyone who doesn;t see the need at QB is blond.



.

HEY !

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 12:53 PM
FishyPete, in another thread says that there is a rumor that Denver wants to switch 1st rounders with us because they want a defensive end .. In return they will give us their two 3rd round picks .. So for the #9 we'd get their 1st and two 3rd's..

Now, this is Exactly what we need to acquire, what we need to do .. If this happens, I know this current regime is the best for the future , and for the development of this franchise .. And I will be extremely happy .

Let's cross our fingers that this rumor is indeed true ..

Agent51
04-05-2007, 01:07 PM
First off, I don't know why your skirting the issue by bringing up Ted Ginn.. Why are you even writing a paragraph about him ? And please tell me where I once condoned drafting him ? Please provide a link for that .

And, your thinking is shady because you think Quinn will be some sort of hall of famer .. He has Ryan Leaf written all over him .. I have seen his college games and I see absolutely nothing that would quantify him as a potential hall of famer .. That is absolutely ridiculous when watching the guy play .

The guy comes off as brood, snotty - as if he has some sort of "entitlement" coming to him (a word one poster said here) .. The guy hasn't proven anything ..

He will be another Carr at best .. And Carr , who is already NFL ready mind you, can be had without sacrificing the future by giving up a 1st round pick ++ for ..

ps- And your mocks are far fetched .. Your mock means nothing in reality to the draft.. No offense to you because no mock does .

I REALLY wish you would stop quoting me and putting words in my mouth on top of it. I didn't say he WILL be a HoF player, I said we never know, he COULD BECOME one. You say Quinn is so overrated yet you have never provided on valid point? Quinn is the next Ryan Leaf? Yea, because you know that for a fact and yet everyone else, you know, the guys who get PAID to do this, doesn't see that. But you, some immature poster on a message board, with a clearly bias opinion toward anything that isn't the way YOU want the draft to turn out, know better than they do? Whatever dude, why not go root against us some more so we can get a better pick next year? Pathetic.

I brought up Ginn because he seems to be getting the majority of the votes from people who either don't want Quinn of don't think we will get him, and the discussion fit into the point I was making about current player needs and their importance. Go ahead, plead your case for an OL in round 1, it;s just a wasted pick. We can have the best line in the NFL and it's still not going to solve our QB woes. The talent margin is MUCH different between QB in round 1 and back than it is between OL in round 1 and back. The SMART thing would be to invest in a QB. Smart for the team, not smart for your plans on having us lose out for the #1 overall next year.


Huh ?? How many of those picks are in the 6th and 7th round ?? After you waste two on your average QB, how many are left ?? You think the rest of the picks will fill all the holes on this team ? AND you think the picks will fill depth as well ?

Come on !!

You must be one very VERY optimistic dolphin fan to think Miami is that close to being a contender ..

Again, words in my mouth, when did I say we were contenders? Show me, please :rolleyes2. Yea, wanna see a mock I can whip up in 2 minutes and fill holes and depth with QUALITY players?

Round 1 - Brady Quinn (QB problem solved)
Round 2 #40 - Arron Sears/Justin Blalock (OL spot filled)
Round 2 #60 - Jason Hill (WR depth added)
Round 3 - Samson Satele (OL spot filled)
Round 4 - Fred Bennet (CB spot/depth filled)
Round 5 - N/A
Round 6 #181 - Johnnie Harline (TE depth)
Round 6 #199 - Anthony Water (LB depth added)
Round 7 #219 - Xavier Jackson (DE depth added)
Round 7 #238 - Nate Ilaoa (RB depth added)

There you go, 4 starters in 1st 4 picks, also filling holes, and 5 quality players to add depth, Harline and Ilaoa would probably even see playing time as rookies. And that is just a quick mock thrown together, if I sat down and spent a week or so on it like some people do I could come up with even better.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 01:14 PM
Round 1 - Brady Quinn (QB problem solved)
Round 2 #40 - Arron Sears/Justin Blalock (OL spot filled)
Round 2 #60 - Jason Hill (WR depth added)
Round 3 - Samson Satele (OL spot filled)
Round 4 - Fred Bennet (CB spot/depth filled)
Round 5 - N/A
Round 6 #181 - Johnnie Harline (TE depth)
Round 6 #199 - Anthony Water (LB depth added)
Round 7 #219 - Xavier Jackson (DE depth added)
Round 7 #238 - Nate Ilaoa (RB depth added)

There you go, 4 starters in 1st 4 picks, also filling holes, and 5 quality players to add depth

No offense, but anyone can write up a mock and try to fill some needs on a team, but that doesn't mean it will happen.. It doesn't even mean those players will be there ..

For instance, some mocks (by people who are getting paid in sports media - I'll use your criteria since you think getting paid is the barometer for all sports knowledge) , have Sears going in the first.. Some have Satele going earlier .. Some have Hill going earlier in the 2nd .

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 01:22 PM
I brought up Ginn because he seems to be getting the majority of the votes from people

But it doesn't make any sense to bring up what some people may think when you are quoting me , and responding to me .. Especially when I have different views than those people..

Which makes your point totally irrelevant.

You are all over the place all the time .. With no substance .

Agent51
04-05-2007, 01:23 PM
HEY !

That was supposed to say "anyone who doesn't see the need at QB is BLIND" :lol:. "Blond" makes it more funny though.

BTW cnc, I have been wondering this since pretty much the day I became a member, who the hell is that in your avatar :confused: :lol:. It almost reminds me of the awesome but short-lived Playmakers on ESPN, but I don't remember seeing a guy that looked like that.

Agent51
04-05-2007, 01:33 PM
No offense, but any fool can write up a mock and try to fill some needs on a team, but that doesn't mean it will happen.. It doesn't even mean those players will be there ..

For instance, some mocks (by people who are getting paid in sports media - I'll use your criteria since you think getting paid is the barometer for all sports knowledge) , have Sears going in the first.. Some have Satele going earlier .. Some have Hill going earlier in the 2nd .

And, if you are so mock savvy, and can predict the future, how come you didn't predict Miami would have to trade one of their 2nd rounders to move up for Quinn ?? That's the only obvious thing in your mock, and you totally neglected the only obvious thing . Did that fly over your head too ?

So again, you haven't proven a thing regarding solving any needs on this team .. Just a bunch of hyperbole .

1st, the "getting paid" isn't a barometer for knowledge, and I wasn't talking about the people who make mocks (like Kiper) I was talking about the people running the teams, like GMs and coaches.

2nd, yeah, and "fool" can make a mock and fill it with needs, but you asked what I would do to help the team with the 6th and 7th rounders, and I showed you, and it's realistic, there aren't reaches and their aren't players falling to us that shouldn't be there on draft day. Don't be mad because you didn't stump me with that question. You're tossing mocks all over the place with your dream OL scenerios, but to quote you "it doesn't mean it will happen" so get over yourself already.

Who said I could predict the future? I made a MOCK draft. I didn't say THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE DRAFT. Why didn't I have a trade for Quinn, because this was a quick mock based on player projections and what COULD happen, and Quinn COULD fall to us at 9 without needing a trade. Before you bash my knowledge with your clearly superior football knowledge, I will clarify and say I don't personally see us getting him without a trade, but since there is a possibility, I used it.

LOL, Hyperbole, looking at the 9th grade english syllabus again :rolleyes2. How did I NOT prove anything when I just gave you a mock that fills every hole with a quality guy and depth with decent players too? It's a friggin mock, and all players are projected accurately, therefore I just roved a point that holes and depth could be filled with quality players on draft day. I didn't say that's how it WILL happen, but it could realistically happen. It isn't some mock where I have us getting players that will be LONG gone by those picks, they are all accurate projections. Don't call me out and ask how I can help a team with the picks we have then try to say I didn't do anything because it's just a mock. I just made a mock with good players and didn't have to trade down and sacrafice Quality to do it. Don't be pissed cuz all 9 picks aren't OLs

Agent51
04-05-2007, 01:37 PM
But it doesn't make any sense to bring up what some people may think when you are quoting me , and responding to me .. Especially when I have different views than those people..

Which makes your point totally irrelevant.

You are all over the place all the time .. With no substance .

My posts have no substance? :lol:, start a poll and ask how many users on here think I post informative posts of just a bunch of nonsense filler posts. I have been contributing to this site for 2 years now, and I have even recieved thanks from some of the mods for being a valued member. My posts are always fact based and legit, and I never FORCE my opinions on people as facts, nor do I wish this team to loose for higher draft picks, or want us to waste 4 picks on the same position, thinking and insisting that magically solves our problems. Please, go to the main forum, that's where every other poster like you lurks, I'm sure you could get most of THEM to agree to trade Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Chris Chambers, Ronnie Brown, and our 1st overall pick for Kyle Turley and a 7th pick in the 2009 draft, plus said player gets to unretire Marino's number and sport it out of position, it's all right up your alley in there. :rolleyes2

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 01:40 PM
My posts have no substance? ,

Not lately .


Please, go to the main forum, that's where every other poster like you lurks, I'm sure you could get most of THEM to agree to trade Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Chris Chambers, Ronnie Brown, and our 1st overall pick for Kyle Turley and a 7th pick in the 2009 draft, plus said player gets to unretire Marino's number and sport it out of position, it's all right up your alley in there. :rolleyes2

Now you are making a total fool of yourself .. Why do you even bother ?

Agent51
04-05-2007, 01:43 PM
Not lately .



Now you are making a total fool of yourself .. Why do you even bother ?

People like you are what keeps the VIP Lounge in business

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 01:47 PM
People like you are what keeps the VIP Lounge in business

And where do they hold up people like you who make such ridiculous quotes like the following :


Please, go to the main forum, that's where every other poster like you lurks, I'm sure you could get most of THEM to agree to trade Jason Taylor, Zach Thomas, Chris Chambers, Ronnie Brown, and our 1st overall pick for Kyle Turley and a 7th pick in the 2009 draft, plus said player gets to unretire Marino's number and sport it out of position, it's all right up your alley in there

Agent51
04-05-2007, 01:48 PM
And where do they hold up people like you who make such ridiculous quotes like the following :

Just showing you how ridiculous your posts look

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 01:51 PM
Not nearly as ridiculous as your incredibly myopic views of this team , and what should be done to improve it .

Agent51
04-05-2007, 01:54 PM
Not nearly as ridiculous as your incredibly myopic views of this team , and what should be done to improve it .

Dude, seriously, are you like 12 and just one of those people who starts fights on message boards because you think it's cool? All you do is go in circles, occasionally using an 8th grade vocabulary word, and saying the same thing OVER and OVER.

My solution for this team fills MANY needs, yours is to draft a bunch of OLs. GREAT plan, give us 5 fat guys but leave us with no QB, no depth at WR or TE, and nothing on our aging defense. It's OK though, those 5 OLs can just take on the 11 people on defense by themselves, because they will be SO good :rolleyes2

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 01:59 PM
All you do is go in circles, occasionally using an 8th grade vocabulary word, and saying the same thing OVER and OVER.

Speak for yourself .. All you have been doing is going in circles making up contrived notions that have little (or nothing) to do with anything..


My solution for this team fills MANY needs, yours is to draft a bunch of OLs. GREAT plan, give us 5 fat guys but leave us with no QB, no depth at WR or TE, and nothing on our aging defense. It's OK though, those 5 OLs can just take on the 11 people on defense by themselves, because they will be SO good :rolleyes2

Please find a quote from me anywhere where I said Miami should draft 5 offensive linemen ..

The only person here acting like a child is you..

Agent51
04-05-2007, 02:06 PM
Speak for yourself .. All you have been doing is going in circles.



Please find a quote from me anywhere where I said Miami should draft 5 offensive linemen ..

The only person here acting like a child is you..

You can find your 5 OL quote the same place you saw me say Brady Quinn will be a HoF QB and this team is a contender now, and all the other words you put in my mouth.

I have seen nothing but garbage posts from you. You want OL and anyone who doesn't is WRONG to you. I have seen you tell pople their posts are "garbage" and "rubbish" and "ridiculous" if they don't have the same outlook as you, and you force your opinions on people as fact.

I plead my case for Quinn, but I don;t shve it down people's throats. I don't say anyone's posts who don't agree with me are complete crap (unless they are immature posts from people like yourself), and I don't say I know for a fact Quinn will be a good, great, HoF QB, I merely state my observations on him and the teams needs.

It's OK though, because you seem to think OL would solve the problems, when it hasn't in EIGHT YEARS, mysteriously the same amount of time we haven't had a capable QB........HMMM, wonder what the problem could be :confused2:

I'm done evern replying because you have yet to defend your arguement from a football decision standpoint, every response you have typed so far has ben childish, immature, and unreleated to football, so go somewhere else, since this is a FOOTBALL forum.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 02:12 PM
I'm done evern replying because you have yet to defend your arguement from a football decision standpoint,

Well finally you are done .. And I have nothing to defend .. All you do is go off with exaggerations , make up things, and contrive things (such as bringing the Ginn topic into play when I never condoned him - as one example) .. It's just a bunch of jibberish .

Nobody can have a sensible conversation with someone who is all over the place all the time bringing irrelevant things into the topic at hand , like you ..

Speaking of which, I am done with this thread as well.. How can anyone have any sort of constructive conversation with someone like you ..

Mile High Fin
04-05-2007, 02:14 PM
Agent 51 & MasterEvaluator:


Believe it or not.......BOTH of your draft philosophies can work.......if implemented correctly.

That's the key.
Conversely, BOTH your ways can FAIL......if NOT done correctly.

You both are wrong thinking that your way is the only good way to do it.
The key is a good GM/Coach making the picks....

Agent51
04-05-2007, 02:19 PM
Agent 51 & MasterEvaluator:


Believe it or not.......BOTH of your draft philosophies can work.......if implemented correctly.

That's the key.
Conversely, BOTH your ways can FAIL......if NOT done correctly.

You both are wrong thinking that your way is the only good way to do it.
The key is a good GM/Coach making the picks....

I never said my way was the ONLY way, I was merely offering a suggestion as to one way to approach it.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 02:21 PM
The key is a good GM/Coach making the picks....

Agree 100% .. Which is a point I have tried to make repeatedly in this thread ..

Some said it doesnt matter how many picks you have they can all bust etc, and I have responded with the "astute management" argument .. Astute people up top can get alot of value out of mid round picks, and the draft overall ..

Which is why I alluded to a previous regime getting very good defensive players like Taylor and Zach in the 3rd and 5th round .

And since we have good management , and superior talent evaluators now (I believe) , it would be in the best interests of this team to trade down in the first round and acquire picks.. Especially at a time when the team is filled with holes (no offense and an aging defense is not a good combination) ..

This is a key point in time for this franchise , and I think that would be the best, and most responsible move this new regime can make .

It's all on management, like you said MileHigh.

Mile High Fin
04-05-2007, 02:25 PM
I never said my way was the ONLY way, I was merely offering a suggestion as to one way to approach it.

Ha. :err:
Your vehement defense of your way suggests otherwise...

You seem to be fighting to the death to defend your way as the best.

Agent51
04-05-2007, 02:49 PM
Ha. :err:
Your vehement defense of your way suggests otherwise...

You seem to be fighting to the death to defend your way as the best.

Nope, I'm fighting to defend against immature posts that personally attack people who don't accept certain people's opinions as facts. Go read his other posts. I watched him tell people their ideas were stupid and garbage and they are idiots to think anything but his way. Not to mention make immature rude jokes at people's expense when it has nothing to do with the subject at hand. I never ONCE said my way was the only way. I get defense of it because I am being challenged with a task (how to fill our roster needs with only 9 picks) and so I provide and example of how and I get "that's stupid, you can't predict the future, you're wrong, that will never happen, it's just a mock" etc etc. Yea, I KNOW it's a friggin mock, every single bit of information up until the draft starts is essentially a mock, so I'm not getting what the point is? They are just responses to incite a reaction.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-05-2007, 03:12 PM
Go read his other posts. I watched him tell people their ideas were stupid and garbage and they are idiots to think anything but his way..

Making thing up again huh ? And I thought you said you were done with this .. Do you ever stop lying ? Nowhere have I called anyone an "idiot" here , or stupid ..

Stop making things up, and stop being so incredibly childish ..

cnc66
04-06-2007, 06:34 AM
That was supposed to say "anyone who doesn't see the need at QB is BLIND" :lol:. "Blond" makes it more funny though.

BTW cnc, I have been wondering this since pretty much the day I became a member, who the hell is that in your avatar :confused: :lol:. It almost reminds me of the awesome but short-lived Playmakers on ESPN, but I don't remember seeing a guy that looked like that.

Agent...

<< that is Bob Keuchenburg

finfan54
04-06-2007, 07:01 AM
Thing is, Mueller is already attaining quantity. We got a 2nd, 6th, and a 7th on top of our picks.

second, dont read too much into that quote because Mueller quantified that line by saying he doesnt mean he doesnt want quality.

If we trade down and get someone like Greg Olsen. An excellent TE whom everyone would have to agree with that that is an upgrade over Randy Mcmicheal, and suddenly we replaced a guy everyone was worried about, then we still end up with quality. Also a number of WR's are also on the slate around those picks. And maybe we are also thinking about drafting Grubbs or Blalock or Kalil (inside-out theory). Just because you drop down spots doesnt mean your not going to get quality.

Regan21286
04-07-2007, 06:26 PM
Just because you drop down spots doesnt mean your not going to get quality.

That rang true with the 2003 draft. We had a lot of picks yet only one guy, Yeremiah Bell, was decent enough to remain. There's a case where quantity < quality.

SgtPhin
04-07-2007, 07:49 PM
But for the 03 draft, who was the HC/GM? That was where we were hurting!