PDA

View Full Version : What will it take to get Quinn?



Aqua4Ever04
04-09-2007, 06:22 PM
Here is a great site that shows the way each pick is scored on a points system.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

To move up to each position, here's what it would take.

To get to....We'd give up

6th...Give up 2nd rounder acquired from NE

5th...Give up 2nd rounder acquired from NE, our 5th and a 6th. Or just a that 2nd and our 4th

4th...Give up our 2nd rounder

3rd...Give up both of our 2nds and 3rd

So if we want to get into the top 3, it would probably include a player. I think if Quinn slides past the top 3, we could trade up to # 6 and get our guy. Essentially we lose Welker and get Quinn and a 7th. That would be a great deal IMO.

GCD960
04-09-2007, 06:37 PM
FOr the 2nd, the skins should throw in there 7th or 6th, 5th if Randy is that damn good

I wouldnt go into the top 3, too much to give up. For the 5th spot, i would give our 2nd if we got their 3rd.

I see the 6th spot or nothing

Fin-omenal
04-09-2007, 06:40 PM
Great..another Quinn thread...

GCD960
04-09-2007, 06:42 PM
Great..another Quinn thread...

Yep, a lot of Quinn supporters here

daniel3
04-09-2007, 06:42 PM
It will take him sliding to the #9 spot.

Fin-omenal
04-09-2007, 06:45 PM
Yep, a lot of Quinn supporters here


Support is fine!! But he wont be there at 9 and Mueller andco. are too smart to sacrafice our future for a "maybe" player.

Jaj
04-09-2007, 06:49 PM
Here is a great site that shows the way each pick is scored on a points system.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

To move up to each position, here's what it would take.

To get to....We'd give up

6th...Give up 2nd rounder acquired from NE

5th...Give up 2nd rounder acquired from NE, our 5th and a 6th. Or just a that 2nd and our 4th

4th...Give up our 2nd rounder

3rd...Give up both of our 2nds and 3rd

So if we want to get into the top 3, it would probably include a player. I think if Quinn slides past the top 3, we could trade up to # 6 and get our guy. Essentially we lose Welker and get Quinn and a 7th. That would be a great deal IMO.

It's monumentally expensive trading up to the 3rd pick in the round, but you might be able to get a little bit of breathing room if the Browns decide that they like Adrian Peterson almost as much.

2200 is the value

Usually the team trading down will give a 5% margin from past trades, so I'd say 2090 points is the minimum.

Offer our 2nd (500) +3rd (235) + a 6th rounder and they might just say let's do it.

I'd prefer two 2nds however.

Finsfan1984
04-09-2007, 06:49 PM
Yep, a lot of Quinn supporters here
And Im another one...:D

Finsfan1984
04-09-2007, 06:51 PM
Support is fine!! But he wont be there at 9 and Mueller andco. are too smart to sacrafice our future for a "maybe" player.
They are all MAYBE players in "reality.":err:

GCD960
04-09-2007, 06:55 PM
Support is fine!! But he wont be there at 9 and Mueller andco. are too smart to sacrafice our future for a "maybe" player.


Iwouldnt want to sacrifice either, but if he makes it to 6, we gotta make that move

Regan21286
04-09-2007, 06:57 PM
I would to be amenable to a trade up though I think it's unlikely we'll be able to trade up to the 3. Most likely, we'd trade up to 4-6 range presuming Lions pass on Quinn to take Thomas/Adams. I'd love to get an elite franchise QB prospect like Quinn. Those just don't come around here very often.

Finsfan1984
04-09-2007, 06:58 PM
I would to be amenable to a trade up though I think it's unlikely we'll be able to trade up to the 3. Most likely, we'd trade up to 4-6 range presuming Lions pass on Quinn to take Thomas/Adams. I'd love to get an elite franchise QB prospect like Quinn. Those just don't come around here very often.
No they dont...

BlueFin
04-09-2007, 07:02 PM
Here is a great site that shows the way each pick is scored on a points system.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

To move up to each position, here's what it would take.

To get to....We'd give up

6th...Give up 2nd rounder acquired from NE

5th...Give up 2nd rounder acquired from NE, our 5th and a 6th. Or just a that 2nd and our 4th

4th...Give up our 2nd rounder

3rd...Give up both of our 2nds and 3rd

So if we want to get into the top 3, it would probably include a player. I think if Quinn slides past the top 3, we could trade up to # 6 and get our guy. Essentially we lose Welker and get Quinn and a 7th. That would be a great deal IMO.

Our 3rd and a seventh will get us to 6 from 9. We keep both 2nds.

darsey
04-09-2007, 07:03 PM
interesting post. For all of the Quinn supporters ( I am not saying that I am not one of them) if Quinn gets past Cleveland then his possibility of becoming a Dolphin is high in my opinion. If he goes past three, then the next 3 teams will probably not draft a Qb. If that is the case, I think Randy will move up and take Quinn.

Fin-omenal
04-09-2007, 07:04 PM
No they dont...


An elite franchise prospect?? He's not even #1 in this class!! You guys all got Woody's for Quinn but he's not the kinda prospect that guys like Palmer, Manning, Bledsoe and those type were..he's more like an Alex Smith, David Carr kind of Hopefull.......he is NOT an elite prospect sorry guys.

Jaj
04-09-2007, 07:05 PM
That's a non-issue, he's ours in my book if he slides past Cleveland. Franchise QB, check please. However, if he doesn't and Cleveland looks like they'll take him that's a different story entirely.

Quinn is #1 on many team's draft boards, likely includings ours. Carr was a very highly rated prospect at the time so that's a moot point and he compares favorably to all except Peyton.

Finsfan1984
04-09-2007, 07:07 PM
An elite franchise prospect?? He's not even #1 in this class!! You guys all got Woody's for Quinn but he's not the kinda prospect that guys like Palmer, Manning, Bledsoe and those type were..he's more like an Alex Smith, David Carr kind of Hopefull.......he is NOT an elite prospect sorry guys.

OK Fin-omenal, Ill play your game...so tell us who then is the franchise prospect QB in this years draft?:cooldude:

Fin-omenal
04-09-2007, 07:11 PM
OK Fin-omenal, Ill play your game...so tell us who then is the franchise prospect QB in this years draft?:cooldude:

I dont see one actually, but if I did it would be Russell........

Guy's Quinn looked bad vs every good defense ND faced!! IS that a coincidence?? I want a franchise QB as bad as the next guy but when you get too desperate you start setting your team back even MORE years..

If he gets to 9 okay, but not worth 2 or 3 picks sorry.:o

Finsfan1984
04-09-2007, 07:18 PM
I dont see one actually, but if I did it would be Russell........

Guy's Quinn looked bad vs every good defense ND faced!! IS that a coincidence?? I want a franchise QB as bad as the next guy but when you get too desperate you start setting your team back even MORE years..

If he gets to 9 okay, but not worth 2 or 3 picks sorry.:o
I disagree with you on two points and somewhat agree with you on another.

Disagree...Russell has a lot of unanswered questions, decision making, etc. i think he is very raw, eventhough he has a huge upside he has an even HUGER (if thats a word, lol) learning curve. Quinn played well the last few years, even against superior talent. There were several teams heads and shoulders better than ND. Not saying he didnt have bad moments at times, he did, but who doesnt. I like his overall ability, as well as his mental toughness.

Agree...Eventhough I really like Quinn, and I do, I also dont want to give up the FARM to get him. I agree with you here. We have too many areas that need improvement. If it takes too much to get him, then maybe we can trade down, get xtra picks, and get a good player at another needed area, and pick a Stanton or Edwards in the second.

Finsfan1984
04-09-2007, 07:20 PM
I dont see one actually, but if I did it would be Russell........

Guy's Quinn looked bad vs every good defense ND faced!! IS that a coincidence?? I want a franchise QB as bad as the next guy but when you get too desperate you start setting your team back even MORE years..

If he gets to 9 okay, but not worth 2 or 3 picks sorry.:o
I agree with you also that i dont think you can put Quinn in the same catagory as Peyton either, but then again who is. Palmer on the other hand, I would. When Palmer came out, there were some concerns about him from his first few years in college, he was a classic underacheiver. Quinn is gonna be a good player for some team though in my honest opinion.

Fin-omenal
04-09-2007, 07:22 PM
I disagree with you on two points and somewhat agree with you on another.

Disagree...Russell has a lot of unanswered questions, decision making, etc. i think he is very raw, eventhough he has a huge upside he has an even HUGER (if thats a word, lol) learning curve. Quinn played well the last few years, even against superior talent. There were several teams heads and shoulders better than ND. Not saying he didnt have bad moments at times, he did, but who doesnt. I like his overall ability, as well as his mental toughness.

Agree...Eventhough I really like Quinn, and I do, I also dont want to give up the FARM to get him. I agree with you here. We have too many areas that need improvement. If it takes too much to get him, then maybe we can trade down, get xtra picks, and get a good player at another needed area, and pick a Stanton or Edwards in the second.

I totally agree with Stanton or Edwards or maybe even Beck in the 2nd..I dint see Quinn being worth a Stanton and a GInn for example...

Regan21286
04-09-2007, 07:23 PM
An elite franchise prospect?? He's not even #1 in this class!! You guys all got Woody's for Quinn but he's not the kinda prospect that guys like Palmer, Manning, Bledsoe and those type were..he's more like an Alex Smith, David Carr kind of Hopefull.......he is NOT an elite prospect sorry guys.

Depends on who you ask. But here's the thing, Quinn is as highly touted as Palmer, Manning, and Bledsoe were. He's been micro-analyzed and nitpicked all throughout his career and is still considered a top 3,5,10 pick. I'm pretty sure Mueller and Cam have the "Woody's" for Quinn since Mueller scouted him since last year and Cam came up with an interesting way of testing Quinn's abilities that impressed both sides. And obviously, Quinn's got a workout session soon. As for Carr, Carr's a Tedford QB. Scouts these days now realize they should look very unfavorably at Tedford QB's because though they do well in college, they suck in the pros (Feeley, Harrington, Akili Smith, etc). Quinn is not a Tedford QB, but rather, he was brought up in a pro-style offense (which doesn't always work in the college level) and still has a good measure of success. Even Alex Smith looks like he has a pretty bright future in SF. They're in a way better situation at QB than we are and that's all you can ask for right now.

Fin-omenal
04-09-2007, 07:30 PM
Depends on who you ask. But here's the thing, Quinn is as highly touted as Palmer, Manning, and Bledsoe were. He's been micro-analyzed and nitpicked all throughout his career and is still considered a top 3,5,10 pick. I'm pretty sure Mueller and Cam have the "Woody's" for Quinn since Mueller scouted him since last year and Cam came up with an interesting way of testing Quinn's abilities that impressed both sides. And obviously, Quinn's got a workout session soon. As for Carr, Carr's a Tedford QB. Scouts these days now realize they should look very unfavorably at Tedford QB's because though they do well in college, they suck in the pros (Feeley, Harrington, Akili Smith, etc). Quinn is not a Tedford QB, but rather, he was brought up in a pro-style offense (which doesn't always work in the college level) and still has a good measure of success. Even Alex Smith looks like he has a pretty bright future in SF. They're in a way better situation at QB than we are and that's all you can ask for right now.


I have heard no one say that personlly, infact I have heard MANY "experts" claim quinn is not as good as ANY of the 1st round QB's last year.

23EmilioVasquez
04-09-2007, 07:30 PM
way to much

Dolfan32323
04-09-2007, 07:32 PM
Support is fine!! But he wont be there at 9 and Mueller andco. are too smart to sacrafice our future for a "maybe" player.
The only that isn't 100% NOT a maybe is Calvin Johnson.

Fin-omenal
04-09-2007, 07:35 PM
The only that isn't 100% NOT a maybe is Calvin Johnson.

Right!! So if its all a risk why not take a qb in the 2nd and get a Ginn or another top guy then gamble in the 2nd on Stanton/Beck etc.?

Regan21286
04-09-2007, 07:49 PM
I have heard no one say that personlly, infact I have heard MANY "experts" claim quinn is not as good as ANY of the 1st round QB's last year.

I would put him among the level of the 1st round QB's last year as I'm sure many did when Quinn was considering going pro after his junior year. In fact, I had hoped Brady Quinn would declare last year so we can at least guarantee ourselves a quality 1st round QB whether it be Leinart, Cutler, Quinn, or Young to fall to our spot.

Aqua4Ever04
04-09-2007, 08:22 PM
Our 3rd and a seventh will get us to 6 from 9. We keep both 2nds.

Thanks for the headsup. The point of this thread is to show the value each pick has and this way we can make educated guesses at what could possibly happen in terms of trades.

I say we see if Quinn last past the top 3 and if he does, he should be there at 6. It wouldn't be very costly at all to move up to 6.

AllianceCollect
04-09-2007, 08:40 PM
I think the fact that we have Cameron & Shea makes me much more excited about the prospect of our acquiring Quinn.

I just think that they will know how to handle any QB we bring in, but it is just that much more exciting to think of what they can do with a QB who played in an “NFL Style” Charlie Weis offense.

zonk4ever
04-09-2007, 08:51 PM
Great..another Quinn thread...
__________________
LOL! Almost as much fun as Culpepper knee issues. I especially like the numerical value trade scenarios; those really get the juices flowing. Ahh, if we had only signed Carr all of this would be so much more palatable. Can't wait for minicamp; Cleo & Gibran, the excitement of football in April... you can't ask for more.

Aqua4Ever04
04-09-2007, 09:33 PM
Great..another Quinn thread...


Because someone is forcing you to open this thread and read through it. Can someone PLEASE explain to me what a post like this does?

I'm sure you didn't even read the intial post, the point was to illustrate the value of each pick in the draft. Stuff like this just absolutely angers me. Thank god for VIP.

BlueFin
04-09-2007, 10:25 PM
Thanks for the headsup. The point of this thread is to show the value each pick has and this way we can make educated guesses at what could possibly happen in terms of trades.

I say we see if Quinn last past the top 3 and if he does, he should be there at 6. It wouldn't be very costly at all to move up to 6.

Exactly, Quinn getting past three is the key otherwise it is too costly, just pointing out that the move to 6 would not by the chart require a second rounder, in fact that would be overpaying.

Finole
04-10-2007, 03:32 PM
The chart is only a guide. They were talking about it on NFL TOTAL ACCESS last night.

So...

If the Raiders draft JaMarcus Russell
If the Lions draft Joe Thomas
If the Bucs draft Calvin Johnson
If the Browns draft Adrian Peterson

Then we know the Cardinals aren't going to draft Brady Quinn.

The Redskins biggest needs are DE and CB which they could easily address at #9. Also, they don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. The Fins could offer a 3rd round pick and say take it or leave it. Washington would have to consider if it is worth it to attain a 3rd round pick, drop 3 spots, and choose a player they were probably going to pick anyway.

Now, here's what we would be giving up...

3rd round prospects
C Samson Satele, Hawaii. Satele would start right away, and allow the Fins to move Hadnot back to Guard.

CB Josh Wilson, Maryland. Wilson is a big-time return man, and would be considered a 1st round prospect any other year. No character issues at all. And very smart. His father was a FB and Earl Campbell's lead blocker.

WRs Jason Hill, Johnnie Lee Higgins, or Aundrae Allison would all be potential upgrades over Marty Booker and Derek Hagan.

Some others:
Doug Free OT Northern Illinois
Aaron Rouse SS Virginia Tech
Eric Weddle SS Utah
Kenny Irons RB Auburn
Tarell Brown CB Texas
Quentin Moses DE Georgia
Andy Alleman OG Akron
Tanard Jackson FS Syracuse
James Marten OT Boston College
Dustin Fry C Clemson
Tim Shaw OLB Penn St
Brandon Mebane DT California
Michael Bush RB Louisville
Marcus Thomas DT Florida
Daymeion Hughes CB California
Josh Beekman OG Boston College
Michael Coe CB Alabama St
Ben Patrick TE Delaware
Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan

PhinCanuck
04-10-2007, 03:45 PM
Iwouldnt want to sacrifice either, but if he makes it to 6, we gotta make that move
I second that

PhinCanuck
04-10-2007, 03:50 PM
The chart is only a guide. They were talking about it on NFL TOTAL ACCESS last night.

So...

If the Raiders draft JaMarcus Russell
If the Lions draft Joe Thomas
If the Bucs draft Calvin Johnson
If the Browns draft Adrian Peterson

Then we know the Cardinals aren't going to draft Brady Quinn.

The Redskins biggest needs are DE and CB which they could easily address at #9. Also, they don't have a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick. The Fins could offer a 3rd round pick and say take it or leave it. Washington would have to consider if it is worth it to attain a 3rd round pick, drop 3 spots, and choose a player they were probably going to pick anyway.
True, but I doubt the Vikins would trade down to us. Spielman hates Miami after he was fired. Their coach is a jerk. I rather trade with the Skins and get Quinn

phinphanforever
04-10-2007, 04:13 PM
Yep, a lot of Quinn supporters here
I'm not drinking this Kool-aid. I am totally perplexed as to why so many are enamoured with Quinn. I mean, I could understand a few people being taken with him, and a few people making some crazy statements, but to hear some on this site, you'd think we're talking about the next Tom Brady.
It's not that Quinn is a bum. He's decent, in my opinion, the third best QB availaible in the draft. I don't think he will have a great career, though. There are some serious red flags as far as I am concerned. His accuracy is questionable (Note to any Quinn supporters, don't bother me with his stats. I've seen them plenty of times. Stats don't always tell the whole story) and his inability to come up big (forget about winning) in the big games are worrying. People who have studied him closely will all tell you the same thing: his arm is good but nothing special. He has been praised for his intangibles and his cerebral abilities but I just don't buy it. He may be a smart kid, he undoubtedly is a hard worker, but these are not the intagibles that I think are so crtiical to a QB success. In some ways, I think Quinn is a little too tightly wound. I prefer a QB who is a little more laid back ( Note: Peyton is similar to Quin in this regard, and I don't think -prepare for a big shocker- he (Peyton) is as good as advertised. Even then, Peyotn has a much better arm than Quinn).
Quinn does show some poise (which is the other critical intangible for a QB) but I just feel his inconsistency with accuracy will nullify this attribute.

Notre Dame is a hype machine, and despite many who argue they are not Notre Dame fans, I can't help but think they have subconciously bought into the hype. I think Weis should reconsider his position at Notre Dame after the season. The sky is the limit for this guy. The way he is fooling so many, he could sell snow to an Eskimo.

Regan21286
04-10-2007, 04:28 PM
I'm not drinking this Kool-aid. I am totally perplexed as to why so many are enamoured with Quinn. I mean, I could understand a few people being taken with him, and a few people making some crazy statements, but to hear some on this site, you'd think we're talking about the next Tom Brady.
It's not that Quinn is a bum. He's decent, in my opinion, the third best QB availaible in the draft. I don't think he will have a great career, though. There are some serious red flags as far as I am concerned. His accuracy is questionable (Note to any Quinn supporters, don't bother me with his stats. I've seen them plenty of times. Stats don't always tell the whole story) and his inability to come up big (forget about winning) in the big games are worrying. People who have studied him closely will all tell you the same thing: his arm is good but nothing special. He has been praised for his intangibles and his cerebral abilities but I just don't buy it. He may be a smart kid, he undoubtedly is a hard worker, but these are not the intagibles that I think are so crtiical to a QB success. In some ways, I think Quinn is a little too tightly wound. I prefer a QB who is a little more laid back ( Note: Peyton is similar to Quin in this regard, and I don't think -prepare for a big shocker- he (Peyton) is as good as advertised. Even then, Peyotn has a much better arm than Quinn).
Quinn does show some poise (which is the other critical intangible for a QB) but I just feel his inconsistency with accuracy will nullify this attribute.

Notre Dame is a hype machine, and despite many who argue they are not Notre Dame fans, I can't help but think they have subconciously bought into the hype. I think Weis should reconsider his position at Notre Dame after the season. The sky is the limit for this guy. The way he is fooling so many, he could sell snow to an Eskimo.

It's not just people on this site enamored with Quinn, it's all the Lions fans, NFL scouts, and possibly even Mueller and Cam and especially Shea. His accuracy may be questionable at times (keyword: at times) but there's no doubt he can make the tight throws. Most QB's start out that way and get better with full time. And I think his arm is just about equal to Peyton's. If you've seen a few Peyton throws, they look kinda wobbly themselves. I don't think he's too tightly wound. He's in the film room, working out, doing everything he can to improve himself and the team. I like that in a QB. I don't like guys who come unprepared and physically iffy, which is true in many fields. If working hard is not an intangible you'd like to see in a QB, you must be smoking Ricky's weed. And Quinn has other intangibles such as a no-quit attitude and ability to lead his offense. ND should've won against USC until his putrid D gave up a big 4th down play.

Finole
04-10-2007, 04:53 PM
True, but I doubt the Vikins would trade down to us. Spielman hates Miami after he was fired. Their coach is a jerk. I rather trade with the Skins and get Quinn

That's what I was saying. Washington is our most likely trade partner.

phinphanforever
04-10-2007, 10:20 PM
It's not just people on this site enamored with Quinn, it's all the Lions fans, NFL scouts, and possibly even Mueller and Cam and especially Shea. His accuracy may be questionable at times (keyword: at times) but there's no doubt he can make the tight throws. Most QB's start out that way and get better with full time. And I think his arm is just about equal to Peyton's. If you've seen a few Peyton throws, they look kinda wobbly themselves. I don't think he's too tightly wound. He's in the film room, working out, doing everything he can to improve himself and the team. I like that in a QB. I don't like guys who come unprepared and physically iffy, which is true in many fields. If working hard is not an intangible you'd like to see in a QB, you must be smoking Ricky's weed. And Quinn has other intangibles such as a no-quit attitude and ability to lead his offense. ND should've won against USC until his putrid D gave up a big 4th down play.
Glad to see you believe in some keywords.

miami234ever
04-10-2007, 10:28 PM
If he gets passed Detroit @ #2 then we could trade up to #3 like this:

Culpepper, #9, #60, and a future 5th for #3 and their 5th this year. I would do that and I think Cleveland would do it too.