PDA

View Full Version : Why Brady Quinn won't slide



Elliott 1
04-12-2007, 06:54 AM
This is a quote from Pat Kirwan talking about the dos and don'ts for teams on draft day:


3. Don't pass on a franchise quarterback: I don't care if your quarterback's name is Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187741), Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531) or Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133361). If a signal-caller is there when you're on the clock, just take him. Look at what the Falcons were able to get in a trade for Matt Schaub (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050). A quarterback is a blue-chip investment. If a team like the Lions pass on a potential franchise QB for the second year in a row and look back a few years from now to see Matt Leinart (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/415213) and Brady Quinn in the Pro Bowl, they will feel the same way the Jets felt when after passing on Hall of Famer Dan Marino. If Oakland had taken Leinart or Jay Cutler (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102) last year, it would have been negotiating with Calvin Johnson right now

Everybody knows this concept is true in today's NFL. Don't beleive the hype and speculation around Qhinn sliding.

It's all just talk for the sake of entertainment.

Thoughts?

Phanatical
04-12-2007, 07:02 AM
What's ironic is that QB's DO continue to slide, Cutler and Leinart are perfect examples.

Ha ha.

GO PHINS~!

jason8er
04-12-2007, 08:12 AM
This is a quote from Pat Kirwan talking about the dos and don'ts for teams on draft day:


3. Don't pass on a franchise quarterback: I don't care if your quarterback's name is Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187741), Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531) or Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133361). If a signal-caller is there when you're on the clock, just take him. Look at what the Falcons were able to get in a trade for Matt Schaub (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050). A quarterback is a blue-chip investment. If a team like the Lions pass on a potential franchise QB for the second year in a row and look back a few years from now to see Matt Leinart (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/415213) and Brady Quinn in the Pro Bowl, they will feel the same way the Jets felt when after passing on Hall of Famer Dan Marino. If Oakland had taken Leinart or Jay Cutler (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102) last year, it would have been negotiating with Calvin Johnson right now

Everybody knows this concept is true in today's NFL. Don't beleive the hype and speculation around Qhinn sliding.

It's all just talk for the sake of entertainment.

Thoughts?
Kirwin is full of hindsight here, and that's real easy to do. We won't know for a while, but since he brought up the '83 draft, Quinn could easily be the Todd Blackledge of '07. There are legit questions surrounding Quinn, and that's why he's erratically sliding up and down. One being his erratic accuracy.

Captain Lou
04-12-2007, 09:41 AM
Kirwin is full of hindsight here, and that's real easy to do. We won't know for a while, but since he brought up the '83 draft, Quinn could easily be the Todd Blackledge of '07. There are legit questions surrounding Quinn, and that's why he's erratically sliding up and down. One being his erratic accuracy.


All the fans who love Quinn egnore that fact. If Quinn played at Tulsa he wouldn't even be on the radar. Some say the fact that he can't win the big game is a short sited argument, it's not. When he played superior defenses or teams the Irish fell. It isn't going to be any easier in the NFL. The margin for error in the NFL is much more narrow than it is in colege.I don't care that he played in a pro set. The fact is he didn't play against NFL players. He never rose to the occasion at the collegiate level, but you expect him to in the pros.

FrankieG
04-12-2007, 09:53 AM
And the people that say he can't win big games didn't seem to notice that he has 10 other teammates on offense and 11 on defense at all times.

Geforce
04-12-2007, 10:01 AM
This is a quote from Pat Kirwan talking about the dos and don'ts for teams on draft day:


3. Don't pass on a franchise quarterback: I don't care if your quarterback's name is Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187741), Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531) or Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133361). If a signal-caller is there when you're on the clock, just take him. Look at what the Falcons were able to get in a trade for Matt Schaub (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050). A quarterback is a blue-chip investment. If a team like the Lions pass on a potential franchise QB for the second year in a row and look back a few years from now to see Matt Leinart (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/415213) and Brady Quinn in the Pro Bowl, they will feel the same way the Jets felt when after passing on Hall of Famer Dan Marino. If Oakland had taken Leinart or Jay Cutler (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102) last year, it would have been negotiating with Calvin Johnson right now

Everybody knows this concept is true in today's NFL. Don't beleive the hype and speculation around Qhinn sliding.

It's all just talk for the sake of entertainment.

Thoughts?

Isn't this a contradiction. If Oakland had taken Leinart or Cutler last year, by Kirwin's own statement about not passing on a franchise QB, shouldn't they also take Russell or Quinn this year too?

phinsfan1221
04-12-2007, 10:07 AM
What's ironic is that QB's DO continue to slide, Cutler and Leinart are perfect examples.

Ha ha.

GO PHINS~! cutler did not slide early projections were 2nd rd than middle of 1st he went 10th overall big time raise in more than one way

BAMAPHIN 22
04-12-2007, 10:30 AM
Quinn believes he should be No. 1

Note Dame QB says he can turn around NFL franchise

Brady Quinn already has taken a down-and-out football team and turned it around. He figures he can do it again.

That's why the Notre Dame quarterback believes he is highly qualified to immediately help a troubled NFL franchise -- and why he should be the first Fighting Irish player taken with the opening pick in the NFL draft in 35 years.



"I've been through the adversity. I've gone through losing seasons. I know what it feels like to lose, but I know what it feels like to win," he said. "I know what it's like to go through that transition."


Quinn didn't say it, but he also knows what it's like to try to win when not all the pieces are in place. Quinn played on an Irish team that didn't have overpowering offensive lines and its defense was average at best.

Critics say Quinn couldn't win big games, but it's hard to beat Michigan, Southern Cal or LSU when the three scored an average of 44 points against the Irish last season.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/specials/draft/2007/04/11/bc.fbn.draft.quinn.ap/index.html

BlueFin
04-12-2007, 11:02 AM
This is a quote from Pat Kirwan talking about the dos and don'ts for teams on draft day:


3. Don't pass on a franchise quarterback: I don't care if your quarterback's name is Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187741), Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531) or Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133361). If a signal-caller is there when you're on the clock, just take him. Look at what the Falcons were able to get in a trade for Matt Schaub (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050). A quarterback is a blue-chip investment. If a team like the Lions pass on a potential franchise QB for the second year in a row and look back a few years from now to see Matt Leinart (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/415213) and Brady Quinn in the Pro Bowl, they will feel the same way the Jets felt when after passing on Hall of Famer Dan Marino. If Oakland had taken Leinart or Jay Cutler (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102) last year, it would have been negotiating with Calvin Johnson right now

Everybody knows this concept is true in today's NFL. Don't beleive the hype and speculation around Qhinn sliding.

It's all just talk for the sake of entertainment.

Thoughts?

First of all, a QB like Quinn getting drafted at 6 or even 9, versus being drafted at 2 or 3, is hardly the definition of a freefall.

Everyone knows there are a certain number of propsects considered to be "elite" prospects and a certain number of QB's considered to be franchise QB's, the order at the top of a draft at which they are selected can be variable depending on certain factors.

For example, a Matt Millen might have drafted too many busts at the top of round one in recent years and may not want to take the risk of another at the highly complicated position of quarterback, he may want a more sure thing pick such as a Joe Thomas in his case. Or, a team may simply already have a solid starter at QB.

Its different to pass on a Dan Marino at pick 26( a situation that more fits Kirwans logic), than passing on Brady Quinn at 2 or 3 when they are probably higher rated prospects on the board and very elite prospects.

ckparrothead
04-12-2007, 11:23 AM
In the NFL, the defenses are good, but so are your skill positions. There isn't usually the kind of marked disparity between your skill positions and the opposing defense that Quinn saw against Michigan, USC, and LSU.

fishypete
04-12-2007, 11:41 AM
In the NFL, the defenses are good, but so are your skill positions. There isn't usually the kind of marked disparity between your skill positions and the opposing defense that Quinn saw against Michigan, USC, and LSU.

I believe your saying that instead of Quinn facing three very good teams....he'll have to play against a very good defense every week....and on a lousy team to boot....unless he falls to 20 and on.

Regan21286
04-12-2007, 12:22 PM
I believe your saying that instead of Quinn facing three very good teams....he'll have to play against a very good defense every week....and on a lousy team to boot....unless he falls to 20 and on.

Not if he falls to us at 9 or we trade up. :wink:

fishypete
04-12-2007, 12:29 PM
Not if he falls to us at 9 or we trade up. :wink:

At 9....we are a lousy team...:lol:

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-12-2007, 12:45 PM
I believe your saying that instead of Quinn facing three very good teams....he'll have to play against a very good defense every week....and on a lousy team to boot....unless he falls to 20 and on.
no, he's saying that the talent differential between even the worse set of skill positions and the best secondary in the NFL isn't nearly as big as what quinn had to go through with notre dame vs. the michigans and USCs and LSUs of the world.

Pocoloco
04-12-2007, 12:46 PM
Oakland passed because they still believed in Walter. Minnesota might pass because they believe in Jackson. Same thing essentially. It ultimately comes down to who is on your roster and what you think they can do, not some abstract rule of thumb from Kirwan.

BlueFin
04-12-2007, 12:57 PM
I believe your saying that instead of Quinn facing three very good teams....he'll have to play against a very good defense every week....and on a lousy team to boot....unless he falls to 20 and on.

My perception of what he said, to summarize is, that in the NFL, the Team Brady Quinn will have around him will be on a more equal footing talentwise, than his Notre Dame team was against the better teams they faced in 2006.

zach8111
04-12-2007, 01:03 PM
This is a quote from Pat Kirwan talking about the dos and don'ts for teams on draft day:


3. Don't pass on a franchise quarterback: I don't care if your quarterback's name is Tom Brady (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187741), Peyton Manning (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531) or Donovan McNabb (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133361). If a signal-caller is there when you're on the clock, just take him. Look at what the Falcons were able to get in a trade for Matt Schaub (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493050). A quarterback is a blue-chip investment. If a team like the Lions pass on a potential franchise QB for the second year in a row and look back a few years from now to see Matt Leinart (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/415213) and Brady Quinn in the Pro Bowl, they will feel the same way the Jets felt when after passing on Hall of Famer Dan Marino. If Oakland had taken Leinart or Jay Cutler (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/409102) last year, it would have been negotiating with Calvin Johnson right now

Everybody knows this concept is true in today's NFL. Don't beleive the hype and speculation around Qhinn sliding.

It's all just talk for the sake of entertainment.

Thoughts?
i bet thats what everyone felt about lienhart to. i see quinn falling the same way.

fishypete
04-12-2007, 01:03 PM
My perception of what he said, to summarize is, that in the NFL, the Team Brady Quinn will have around him will be on a more equal footing talentwise, than his Notre Dame team was against the better teams they faced in 2006.

Sorry Blue...but I don't see it that way at all...in fact a team that doesn't have talent...that had a losing season will most likely draft him. If he couldn't carry N.D. against the better teams in college....what will he do against NFL teams that are far better?

BlueFin
04-12-2007, 01:13 PM
Sorry Blue...but I don't see it that way at all...in fact a team that doesn't have talent...that had a losing season will most likely draft him. If he couldn't carry N.D. against the better teams in college....what will he do against NFL teams that are far better?

Well Pete, you may not agree with this, but parity has the NFL teams on a much more even footing than the teams at the college level.

Where a 6-10 Miami team soundly beat the Superbowl bound Bears last year, there was no way Notre Dame would "blow out" Florida last year, for example.

Not even on any given Saturday.

GCD960
04-12-2007, 01:37 PM
True but the Lions are not equal to other teams. The ability is there but the realty is that the talent and foundation arent. A good FO and coaching staff can bring parity. The cap and money can be equal but thats it. A FO and coaching staff will continue to show that there isnt parity.

fishypete
04-12-2007, 01:51 PM
Well Pete, you may not agree with this, but parity has the NFL teams on a much more even footing than the teams at the college level.

Where a 6-10 Miami team soundly beat the Superbowl bound Bears last year, there was no way Notre Dame would "blow out" Florida last year, for example.

Not even on any given Saturday.

The Bears were a over-hyped team...bad example. The simple fact that the Dolphins were 6-10...just shows that not every team is good enough to win every game. Are the Dolphins equal to the Chargers? Of course not...the Dolphins couldn't beat the Steelers and they had a backup QB playing...we lost to the Texans....even though on paper we should have beaten them both.

MiamiMan147
04-12-2007, 01:55 PM
Yes Quinn can slide. Your arguement rests on the idea that Matt Millen is 100% certain to do the right thing. C'mon now, Millen is the worst GM in the league, hands down.

BlueFin
04-12-2007, 02:00 PM
The Bears were a over-hyped team...bad example. The simple fact that the Dolphins were 6-10...just shows that not every team is good enough to win every game. Are the Dolphins equal to the Chargers? Of course not...the Dolphins couldn't beat the Steelers and they had a backup QB playing...we lost to the Texans....even though on paper we should have beaten them both.

But the facts remain Pete, Chicago was a superbowl team, Miami was a bottomfeeder, and we rolled them.

You will not see the bottom feeders in college ball EVER blow away the top teams.

The rest of your post just proves the parity of the NFL, which really is a known fact and to debate that borders on ridiculous.

College ball clearly schedules outright mismatches, teams that should never lineup on the same field together, surely you know this Pete, as long as you've been around?

fishypete
04-12-2007, 02:02 PM
But the facts remain Pete, Chicago was a superbowl team, Miami was a bottomfeeder, and we rolled them.

You will not see the bottom feeders in college ball EVER blow away the top teams.

The rest of your post just proves the parity of the NFL, which really is a known fact and to debate that borders on ridiculous.

College ball clearly schedules outright mismatches, teams that should never lineup on the same field together, surely you know this Pete, as long as you've been around?

Yes I do know that college schedules are fixed....just look at the teams that ND played against...Army, Navy and the Air Force. :shakeno:

BlueFin
04-12-2007, 02:14 PM
Yes I do know that college schedules are fixed....just look at the teams that ND played against...Army, Navy and the Air Force. :shakeno:

Yes, and conversely Notre Dame was not good enough to lineup and stay with USC or LSU.

Brady Quinn facing LSU was like Marino going against the 17-1 1984 49ers, Marino handicapped with a bottom 10 defense, no top runningback and less than acceptable pass blocking could simply not stay in the game, it was a mismatch.

Captain Lou
04-12-2007, 02:36 PM
Yes, and conversely Notre Dame was not good enough to lineup and stay with USC or LSU.

Brady Quinn facing LSU was like Marino going against the 17-1 1984 49ers, Marino handicapped with a bottom 10 defense, no top runningback and less than acceptable pass blocking could simply not stay in the game, it was a mismatch.

Yea, but Marino won 2 playoff games to get there.

BlueFin
04-12-2007, 02:44 PM
Yea, but Marino won 2 playoff games to get there.

Yes, but those teams were not the 49ers, much worse.

Pennington's Rocket Arm
04-12-2007, 04:39 PM
lmao these arguments are so ridiculous.

ckparrothead
04-12-2007, 05:13 PM
For those people that are so hung up on Brady Quinn not being able to beat USC, LSU, and Michigan, please tell me the following:

1. Why couldn't Peyton Manning beat Florida?

2. Why couldn't Peyton Manning win the National Championship?

3. Why isn't Tee Martin a great NFL quarterback?

4. Why couldn't Tom Brady beat UCLA (2000) or Michigan State (1999)?

5. Why couldn't Carson Palmer beat Washington State in 2002?

6. Why couldn't Carson Palmer even lead his team to a winning record in 2001?

NMUCats
04-12-2007, 05:33 PM
I bet Palmer's stats are scary similar to Brady's, if anyone wants to look them up. Both qbs had rough freshman years under horrid coaches/systems, then had decent second year campaigns. Brady had a better junior year than Carson if my memory serves me, but both had outstanding senior years with similar records.