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View Full Version : Mueller needs a big draft!



Rich
04-16-2007, 08:52 AM
This offseason has been rather pathetic so far. I'm not real happy with the thought of possibly cutting Culpepper, and acquiring Old Trent Green.

Donnie Jones seems like a close call. I'd rather have him then a 7th round pick. $1.1 mil salary seems a little high though.
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Gained (3-4 starters)(3-4 backups)(2 draft picks):
Joey Porter (starter)
Corey Schlesinger (starter)
Jay Feeley (starter)(marginal upgrade)
David Martin (starter?)(below average)
Chris Liewinsky(backup)
Cameron Worrell (backup)
Az-Zahir Hakim (backup)(may get cut)
2nd round pick
7th round pick

Lost (6 starters, 5 backups):
Randy McMichael (starter)
Damion McIntosh (starter)
Darian Barnes (starter)
Jeno James (starter)
Wes Welker (starter)
Olindo Mare (starter)
Dan Wilikinson (backup)(?)
Sammy Morris (backup)
Travis Minor (backup)
Joey Harrington (backup)
Toniu Fonoti (backup)
Jeff Zgonina (backup)

JT-forpresident
04-16-2007, 09:31 AM
Plain simple, we got nowhere with those guys, my only regret is Randy Mac and mayyyyyyyyybe Macintosh but for the rest of them, good riddance, time for a change after the recent past seasons.

chillyphins
04-16-2007, 09:50 AM
We also got a 6th rounder for Mare!

JFoxx
04-16-2007, 10:12 AM
I agree that we need a very good draft. "Big" could be misinterpreted to mean "flashy, well known/sought after guys". I think other than the first round or two, we may be asking, who are some of these guys? Especially in the later rounds. I think they are doing the most homework on the guys in the 4th-7th rounds. They MUST find those rare gems in all those potential busts out there. The trend these past few years are to take chances on guys with character problems or one's recovering from injuries. I think Cam/Mueller will go back to the prospect of finding solid players from smaller or lesser known schools. I think we spend a fair portion of our 2nd day picks on the OL, by trying to increase our odds of finding those solid producing guys. But regardless of who, what and when we pick guys, we are going to need a large % of these guys to win starting jobs by no later than mid-season in order for us to have a decent shot this year.

phinphan4life
04-16-2007, 12:23 PM
I agree totally that this needs to be a huge draft for Mueller. We are very fortunate that within the top 15 or so selections there is quite a bit of talent available. We could potentially go in about 5 different directions as to what player/position we select at 9. Inevitably, many of us will be upset regardless of who we select, because we're not in the position to pick one of the 3 or 4 can't miss players in this years draft.

HybridPHIN 23
04-16-2007, 12:29 PM
this offseason has been far from pathetic... its been just the opposite. Also, its the entire franchise that needs another solid draft class.. not just our GM himself. Mueller aint on the hot seat.

SabanHater
04-16-2007, 12:50 PM
I think this offseason has been rather good so far. We haven't made the playoffs in five years with these types of players. I happy with the FO decisions so far.

SpurzN703
04-16-2007, 01:57 PM
So Mueller needs a big draft b/c you think our offseason is pathetic? :err:

Rich
04-16-2007, 02:44 PM
So Mueller needs a big draft b/c you think our offseason is pathetic? :err:

Yes. On paper, we are less talented right now than we were last year(6-wins). Mueller will need to draft 2 or 3 starters to get us back to last year's talent-level.

If he does not... then we are looking at another 2004 season (4-wins).

If the team went from 9-wins with Spielman, down to 6 last year(Mueller), down to 4 this year(Mueller)... Mueller would be jobless.

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I count 2 upgrades and 10 downgrades. I don't see how we've improved, so far. I guess you could argue "Addition by Subraction".

Upgrades:
Donnie Spragan(Starter) -> Joey Porter
Darian Barnes (starter) -> Corey Schlesinger

Push:
Olindo Mare (starter) -> Jay Feeley
Travis Minor (backup) -> Cameron Worrell

Downgrades:
Randy McMichael (starter) -> David Martin
Jeno James (starter) -> Chris Liewinsky
Wes Welker (starter) -> Az Hakim
Joey Harrington -> Gibran Hamden
Sammy Morris (backup) -> Patrick Cobbs (cut last year)
Damion McIntosh (starter) -> nobody
Dan Wilikinson (backup)(?) -> nobody
Toniu Fonoti (backup) -> nobody
Jeff Zgonina (backup) -> nobody
Seth McKinney (backup) -> nobody

phinphan11
04-16-2007, 08:33 PM
Yes. On paper, we are less talented right now than we were last year(6-wins). Mueller will need to draft 2 or 3 starters to get us back to last year's talent-level.

If he does not... then we are looking at another 2004 season (4-wins).

If the team went from 9-wins with Spielman, down to 6 last year(Mueller), down to 4 this year(Mueller)... Mueller would be jobless.

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I count 2 upgrades and 10 downgrades. I don't see how we've improved, so far. I guess you could argue "Addition by Subraction".

Upgrades:
Donnie Spragan(Starter) -> Joey Porter
Darian Barnes (starter) -> Corey Schlesinger

Push:
Olindo Mare (starter) -> Jay Feeley
Travis Minor (backup) -> Cameron Worrell

Downgrades:
Randy McMichael (starter) -> David Martin
Jeno James (starter) -> Chris Liewinsky
Wes Welker (starter) -> Az Hakim
Joey Harrington -> Gibran Hamden
Sammy Morris (backup) -> Patrick Cobbs (cut last year)
Damion McIntosh (starter) -> nobody
Dan Wilikinson (backup)(?) -> nobody
Toniu Fonoti (backup) -> nobody
Jeff Zgonina (backup) -> nobody
Seth McKinney (backup) -> nobody

How can it be considered a downgrade when the position is still in flux?

Rich
04-16-2007, 11:00 PM
How can it be considered a downgrade when the position is still in flux?

You could be talking about 10 different players... which position? I am all for cutting crappy players.... but replacing bad players with even crappier players (practice squaders) does not seem like a good plan.

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"Seth McKinney (backup) -> nobody"
replace with:
Seth McKinney (fmr starter) -> Johnathen Ingram (never started) (downgrade)

emocomputerjock
04-16-2007, 11:07 PM
Mueller doesn't need a big draft, the Dolphins do. Simply put, we've got to hit an awful lot more than we miss this draft. It's not Muellers fault, it's the guy in charge of personnel the past couple of drafts, namely Saban. Good thing he was a good judge of character and ability, and we're not as bad as you make us seem.

Rich
04-16-2007, 11:17 PM
Sabans first draft with Rick Spielman was pretty good (Brown, Roth, Crowder, Daniels, Alabi, Vickerson).

Last year, the plan(Mueller/Saban) was to draft all injured players, in the hopes we could get better value. It turned out that they were too injured too play. Maybe a couple of these guys will play this year.

Comparing Spielman(2005) vs. Mueller(2006)... Spielman won. Hopefully this trend doesn't continue.

GRYPHONK
04-16-2007, 11:31 PM
So helping the salary cap this year plus years to come isn't good? Getting a 2nd and 7th for a 3rd WR and a 6TH for a declining FG kicker is pathetic?

It's nice to finally have a coach who will get rid of the high paid low producing player.

This offseason so far has been a major success for the "future" of this franchise.

Rich
04-16-2007, 11:43 PM
"Getting a 2nd and 7th for a 3rd WR and a 6TH for a declining FG kicker is pathetic?"
-- The mare move was pretty good. Welker was worth a 2nd round pick; he has exceptional hands(#1 on the team); the patriots aren't stupid.

Hopefully we can draft some starters this year (unlike last year).
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My complaint is not about who was cut... or picking up draft picks... the complaint is that we replaced these guys with even worse players. A good draft could negate these crappy signings. A bad draft means we're in for a repeat of 2004.

dominizzo
04-17-2007, 12:11 AM
You all want a good draft........ Hire Jimmy Johnson for the draft!! hes the best in history when it comes to draft!!

See Dallas and Miami D

GRYPHONK
04-17-2007, 12:29 AM
"Getting a 2nd and 7th for a 3rd WR and a 6TH for a declining FG kicker is pathetic?"
-- The mare move was pretty good. Welker was worth a 2nd round pick; he has exceptional hands(#1 on the team); the patriots aren't stupid.

Hopefully we can draft some starters this year (unlike last year).
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My complaint is not about who was cut... or picking up draft picks... the complaint is that we replaced these guys with even worse players. A good draft could negate these crappy signings. A bad draft means we're in for a repeat of 2004.

That's the point I am trying to make. You are looking at one aspect and calling it pathetic. There is more to a team then just going out and getting someone you may think is better,

Also how do you know Liewenski isn't better suited for Cams offense then James was.

The only major cuts of significance was the O-line. Last I heard Cam and Mueller were sold on Alabi and Toledo. They may be better then the guys we cut in Mueller and cam's eyes

ASUFinFan
04-17-2007, 04:49 AM
Yes. On paper, we are less talented right now than we were last year(6-wins). Mueller will need to draft 2 or 3 starters to get us back to last year's talent-level.

If he does not... then we are looking at another 2004 season (4-wins).

If the team went from 9-wins with Spielman, down to 6 last year(Mueller), down to 4 this year(Mueller)... Mueller would be jobless.

***********
I count 2 upgrades and 10 downgrades. I don't see how we've improved, so far. I guess you could argue "Addition by Subraction".

Upgrades:
Donnie Spragan(Starter) -> Joey Porter
Darian Barnes (starter) -> Corey Schlesinger

Push:
Olindo Mare (starter) -> Jay Feeley
Travis Minor (backup) -> Cameron Worrell

Downgrades:
Randy McMichael (starter) -> David Martin
Jeno James (starter) -> Chris Liewinsky
Wes Welker (starter) -> Az Hakim
Joey Harrington -> Gibran Hamden
Sammy Morris (backup) -> Patrick Cobbs (cut last year)
Damion McIntosh (starter) -> nobody
Dan Wilikinson (backup)(?) -> nobody
Toniu Fonoti (backup) -> nobody
Jeff Zgonina (backup) -> nobody
Seth McKinney (backup) -> nobody

Saban was the GM last year, this will be Muellers first here picking his players.

Rich
04-17-2007, 08:39 AM
"Saban was the GM last year"
-- Can I have Mueller's old job? Your title is GM; you get paid like a GM; somebody else does your job for you?