PDA

View Full Version : Does Quinn really have the IT factor ?



Captain Lou
04-16-2007, 05:01 PM
Let's compare Quinn last years top 3. I dont think anyone will debate whether or not his tools are comparable, but does he have IT.



Vince Young- Literally took games over ie national championship game

Cutler- He made a very bad team Vandy competitive, and even beat Tennessee and gave Florida all they could handle.

Lienart- I know he had a very talented team, but he came through in the clutch. How many times was USC down buy 2 or 3 tds, and he brought them back.

I can't say the same thing about the guys in this draft. I refuse to force Quinn into the same category.

Finsfan1984
04-16-2007, 05:06 PM
Im confused a little here, are you saying he does have the "IT" factor, or are you implying that he doesnt?

Crowder52
04-16-2007, 05:08 PM
The "IT" factor? Lol. Glad we aren't using your criteria to draft our players.

Captain Lou
04-16-2007, 05:12 PM
The "IT" factor? Lol. Glad we aren't using your criteria to draft our players.

Isn't IT that seperates players with all the skills, but none of the results. The 3 before players I mentioned all IMO better leaders than Quinn. Great players do defy the odds and occasionally win games they shouldn't.

zonk4ever
04-16-2007, 05:22 PM
If the "IT" factor could be measured in terms of DESPERATION. Quinn might not have "IT" but the Dolphins do. Is there any team more desperate to geta Quarterback than us? The Chiefs are sitting back laughing: C'mon Cam, we know how desperate you are! You woke up Uncle Wayne @ 6:30 in the morning, you were so excited! You want the old Trenster bad don't you! We're not making you beg or grovel that would be... mean. All we're asking for is a measly old 2nd round pick. You know you what him. Give us that 2nd and you can steal him from us. You punk.

zonk4ever
04-16-2007, 05:23 PM
If the "IT" factor could be measured in terms of DESPERATION. Quinn might not have "IT" but the Dolphins do. Is there any team more desperate to get a Quarterback than us? The Chiefs are sitting back laughing: C'mon Cam, we know how desperate you are! You woke up Uncle Wayne @ 6:30 in the morning, you were so excited! You want the old Trenster bad don't you! We're not making you beg or grovel that would be... mean. All we're asking for is a measly old 2nd round pick. You know you what him. Give us that 2nd and you can steal him from us. You punk.

Agent51
04-16-2007, 05:26 PM
Let's compare Quinn last years top 3. I dont think anyone will debate whether or not his tools are comparable, but does have IT.



Vince Young- Literally took games over ie national championship game

Cutler- He made a very bad team Vandy competitive, and even beat Tennessee and gave Florida all they could handle.

Lienart- I know he had a very talented team, but he came through in the clutch. How many times was USC down buy 2 or 3 tds, and he brought them back.

I can't say the same thing about the guys in this draft. I refuse to force Quinn into the same category.

Vince Young - While I love him to death (being the diehard Longhorns fan I am), he is a playmaker more with his feet than his arm. Yes, he takes over games, but it wouldn't exactly be called elite QUARTERBACK play because that implies he becomes a field general and makes tough plays with his arm. Vince tends to make most of his spectacular game-changing stuff with his legs, it's a completely different comparison to the rest.

Jay Cutler - While I agree he had great stats with a bad team, how do you figure their 5-6 record was competitive? They beat Tennessee, but what did Tennessee do that year? Florida wasn't exactly wowing people that year either (9-3 overall, with all 3 losses to SEC teams). To apply the logic you use to bash Brady Quinn to Jay Cutler, "ALMOST winning doesn't count".

Matt Leinert - Another good QB but I think he DEFINATELY benifitted from his cast. I don't see Matt Leinert doing the same thing at another school with little or no supporting cast. Let's use Vandy for example. I don't think Matt Leinert would have put up Jay Cutler numbers if he were at Vandy. That USC team was just INSANELY talent-rich, and there is no telling if those "comebacks" he had would have been done without Jarret and Smith and Bush and White etc. Leinert got a HUGE break because temas had to respect the run big time, which opened the pass.

Brady Quinn - I don't know what more you want people to say. Your only arguement seems to be he never won in big games. First, as I've said a million times already, ONE player doesn't win games, ask Dan Marino. Second, you praise Cutler for his impressive stats and being competitive on a shoddy team, yet bash Quinn, when Quinn had a team just as bad and put up numbers just as impressive (and had more wins)? Both QBs didn't have much to work with, both QBs shattered all the records at their schools (which is more impressive in Quinn's case given the past ND QBs like Montana and Theisman etc), so how is Quinn crappy but Cutler is excellent when they did the same things? Cutler never won any big games either, but you aren't bashing him. Get over it, the arguement is tired, and you completely contradict the entire thing by calling Cutler great and Quinn crap when they were in the same boat.

Captain Lou
04-16-2007, 05:39 PM
[ Cutler never won any big games either, but you aren't bashing him. Get over it, the arguement is tired, and you completely contradict the entire thing by calling Cutler great and Quinn crap when they were in the same boat.[/quote]


I know you aren't comparing Vandy sopporting cast to Notre Dames, and the SEC schedule compared to service academy.Vandy hadn't beat Tennessee in over 30 years. I watched Cutler single handedly almost beat my beloved Gators. He impressed me when I watched him play,Quinn doesn't.

Crowder52
04-16-2007, 05:41 PM
[ Cutler never won any big games either, but you aren't bashing him. Get over it, the arguement is tired, and you completely contradict the entire thing by calling Cutler great and Quinn crap when they were in the same boat.

I know you aren't comparing Vandy sopporting cast to Notre Dames, and the SEC schedule compared to service academy.Vandy hadn't beat Tennessee in over 30 years. I watched Cutler single handedly almost beat my beloved Gators. He impressed me when I watched him play,Quinn doesn't.

Lou, I'm with ya on Cutler, I like him a lot. I just don't get where you saw this "IT" factor in Leinart. I also feel like it is very subjective.

Agent51
04-16-2007, 06:08 PM
Cutler never won any big games either, but you aren't bashing him. Get over it, the arguement is tired, and you completely contradict the entire thing by calling Cutler great and Quinn crap when they were in the same boat.


I know you aren't comparing Vandy sopporting cast to Notre Dames, and the SEC schedule compared to service academy.Vandy hadn't beat Tennessee in over 30 years. I watched Cutler single handedly almost beat my beloved Gators. He impressed me when I watched him play,Quinn doesn't.

BOOM, right there, more contradictions, because when Quinn SINGLE-HANDEDLY *ALMOST* beat USC last year (a MUCH better team at the time than Florida was when Cutler almost beat them) you said it doesn't count, the defense wasn't trying and he lost the game anyway, so it wasn't impressive.

So again, how is something Cutler does amazing but when Quinn does it (against a better team mind you) he still sucks and it doesn't count?

And I didn't say they were equal casts, but Brady didn't have some superstar lineup like Matt Leinert did. He definately had nothing on defense, and his offense was average, nothing special.

bigchub22
04-16-2007, 06:09 PM
Vince Young - While I love him to death (being the diehard Longhorns fan I am), he is a playmaker more with his feet than his arm. Yes, he takes over games, but it wouldn't exactly be called elite QUARTERBACK play because that implies he becomes a field general and makes tough plays with his arm. Vince tends to make most of his spectacular game-changing stuff with his legs, it's a completely different comparison to the rest.

Jay Cutler - While I agree he had great stats with a bad team, how do you figure their 5-6 record was competitive? They beat Tennessee, but what did Tennessee do that year? Florida wasn't exactly wowing people that year either (9-3 overall, with all 3 losses to SEC teams). To apply the logic you use to bash Brady Quinn to Jay Cutler, "ALMOST winning doesn't count".

Matt Leinert - Another good QB but I think he DEFINATELY benifitted from his cast. I don't see Matt Leinert doing the same thing at another school with little or no supporting cast. Let's use Vandy for example. I don't think Matt Leinert would have put up Jay Cutler numbers if he were at Vandy. That USC team was just INSANELY talent-rich, and there is no telling if those "comebacks" he had would have been done without Jarret and Smith and Bush and White etc. Leinert got a HUGE break because temas had to respect the run big time, which opened the pass.

Brady Quinn - I don't know what more you want people to say. Your only arguement seems to be he never won in big games. First, as I've said a million times already, ONE player doesn't win games, ask Dan Marino. Second, you praise Cutler for his impressive stats and being competitive on a shoddy team, yet bash Quinn, when Quinn had a team just as bad and put up numbers just as impressive (and had more wins)? Both QBs didn't have much to work with, both QBs shattered all the records at their schools (which is more impressive in Quinn's case given the past ND QBs like Montana and Theisman etc), so how is Quinn crappy but Cutler is excellent when they did the same things? Cutler never won any big games either, but you aren't bashing him. Get over it, the arguement is tired, and you completely contradict the entire thing by calling Cutler great and Quinn crap when they were in the same boat.

DING DING DING we got a winner couldnt have said it better

Finsfan1984
04-16-2007, 06:17 PM
Im just really exhausted with all the anti-Quinn crap...its getting really old people. If you dont like him, fine, but you cant argue with all the draft experts, even the ones that dont like him, that have him rated as at least the #2 QB.

ohiobryan
04-16-2007, 06:18 PM
he is going to be better then cutler leinart and young end of story do you get IT!!!!!!!!!!

Finsfan1984
04-16-2007, 06:21 PM
he is going to be better then cutler leinart and young end of story do you get IT!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with you ohiobryan. He's going to be a special player, hopefully for the phins, and there's people on here who refuse to accept that.

Regan21286
04-16-2007, 06:24 PM
Let's compare Quinn last years top 3. I dont think anyone will debate whether or not his tools are comparable, but does he have IT.



Vince Young- Literally took games over ie national championship game

Cutler- He made a very bad team Vandy competitive, and even beat Tennessee and gave Florida all they could handle.

Lienart- I know he had a very talented team, but he came through in the clutch. How many times was USC down buy 2 or 3 tds, and he brought them back.

I can't say the same thing about the guys in this draft. I refuse to force Quinn into the same category.

So Quinn almost single-handedly beating USC doesn't count? Or the fact that he brought his team to a last minute victory against UCLA (which wasn't very pleasing to me) with its tough as nails DL mauling the Irish frontline and consistently putting the heat on him? (for comparison, Stanford's OL was just as maligned by the Bruins DL as ND but Edwards put up a stinker worthy of Ray Lucas) This was the same DL that also ravaged USC's Booty.

Crowder52
04-16-2007, 06:33 PM
So Quinn almost single-handedly beating USC doesn't count? Or the fact that he brought his team to a last minute victory against UCLA (which wasn't very pleasing to me) with its tough as nails DL mauling the Irish frontline and consistently putting the heat on him? (for comparison, Stanford's OL was just as maligned by the Bruins DL as ND but Edwards put up a stinker worthy of Ray Lucas) This was the same DL that also ravaged USC's Booty.

:sidelol:

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-16-2007, 06:34 PM
I'm not supporting moving up to get Quinn.. But I am so sick and tired of the pre draft talk that I hope Miami gets him just to shut up the Quinn lovers on this board.

Captain Lou
04-16-2007, 06:39 PM
BOOM, right there, more contradictions, because when Quinn SINGLE-HANDEDLY *ALMOST* beat USC last year (a MUCH better team at the time than Florida was when Cutler almost beat them) you said it doesn't count, the defense wasn't trying and he lost the game anyway, so it wasn't impressive.

So again, how is something Cutler does amazing but when Quinn does it (against a better team mind you) he still sucks and it doesn't count?

And I didn't say they were equal casts, but Brady didn't have some superstar lineup like Matt Leinert did. He definately had nothing on defense, and his offense was average, nothing special.



I cant even name a player that Cutler played with. Notre Dame had talent, NFL talent on it's roster.(granted not all their players, but certainly more than Vandy) I don't think Cutler will see many of his teammates on a NFL sideline.

Regan21286
04-16-2007, 06:44 PM
:sidelol:

:lol: Don't even get me started on the "USC Takes It Up The Booty" shirts.

Agent51
04-16-2007, 06:50 PM
I cant even name a player that Cutler played with. Notre Dame had talent, NFL talent on it's roster.(granted not all their players, but certainly more than Vandy) I don't think Cutler will see many of his teammates on a NFL sideline.

I didn't say Quinn had no NFL talent, and I also said Cutler was damn fine college QB and will be a great NFL QB. The debate here isn't about Cutler or if he is better or worse than Quinn, the arguement I'm making is that every point you have made as to why Cutler is great also applies to Quinn, and yet you say he is crap, and I just don't get it when it's the SAME SITUATION. OK, so Cutler had less talent than Quinn, well, he also had less wins to show for it, so if that cancels each other out, you are left with two QBs who weren't surrounded by mega-talent teams and who still got wins and shattered all their school's records in the process.

Cutler ALMOST beat Florida, Quinn ALMOST beach USC. Both were excellent comebacks orchestrated by the QBs, and not to take anything away from Cutler, but Quinns comeback was more impressive because he did it against the Leinert/Bush/White/Jarrett/Smith Trojans (who went on to the national title game) compared to Cutler's comeback against Florida, who only managed a 5-3 SEC record that year.

Again, they are in the same situation, aside from a few player differences, so how is one excellent for it and the other is crap? If Jay Cutler performed liek he did as the Notre Dame QB he'd be getting slammed, and Quinn would be the next God if he did what he did at Vandy. Nobody EXPECTED Vandy to win, so the fact that Cutler managed a whole FIVE wins looked heroic, whereas Notre Dame is expected to be contenders every year so the fact that he didn't make the title game, nevermind lost more than one game, makes him looked WAY down upon.

PhinCanuck
04-16-2007, 06:57 PM
Brady Quinn - I don't know what more you want people to say. Your only arguement seems to be he never won in big games. First, as I've said a million times already, ONE player doesn't win games, ask Dan Marino. Second, you praise Cutler for his impressive stats and being competitive on a shoddy team, yet bash Quinn, when Quinn had a team just as bad and put up numbers just as impressive (and had more wins)? Both QBs didn't have much to work with, both QBs shattered all the records at their schools (which is more impressive in Quinn's case given the past ND QBs like Montana and Theisman etc), so how is Quinn crappy but Cutler is excellent when they did the same things? Cutler never won any big games either, but you aren't bashing him. Get over it, the arguement is tired, and you completely contradict the entire thing by calling Cutler great and Quinn crap when they were in the same boat.
Dude, with this quote you totally sold the product. Where do I sign? Honestly, that is a great point. Please forward that to Mueller.

Captain Lou
04-16-2007, 07:00 PM
I didn't say Quinn had no NFL talent, and I also said Cutler was damn fine college QB and will be a great NFL QB. The debate here isn't about Cutler or if he is better or worse than Quinn, the arguement I'm making is that every point you have made as to why Cutler is great also applies to Quinn, and yet you say he is crap, and I just don't get it when it's the SAME SITUATION. OK, so Cutler had less talent than Quinn, well, he also had less wins to show for it, so if that cancels each other out, you are left with two QBs who weren't surrounded by mega-talent teams and who still got wins and shattered all their school's records in the process.

Cutler ALMOST beat Florida, Quinn ALMOST beach USC. Both were excellent comebacks orchestrated by the QBs, and not to take anything away from Cutler, but Quinns comeback was more impressive because he did it against the Leinert/Bush/White/Jarrett/Smith Trojans (who went on to the national title game) compared to Cutler's comeback against Florida, who only managed a 5-3 SEC record that year.

Again, they are in the same situation, aside from a few player differences, so how is one excellent for it and the other is crap? If Jay Cutler performed liek he did as the Notre Dame QB he'd be getting slammed, and Quinn would be the next God if he did what he did at Vandy. Nobody EXPECTED Vandy to win, so the fact that Cutler managed a whole FIVE wins looked heroic, whereas Notre Dame is expected to be contenders every year so the fact that he didn't make the title game, nevermind lost more than one game, makes him looked WAY down upon.

I dont think Quinn will be a great qb. I didn't say he would suck either. I personally think his value has been inflated. If he is there at 9 I think we should take him. I just dont want to waste additional picks on an unproven commodity. If he is drafted he'll get 100% of my support, but I just have doubts.

Roman529
04-16-2007, 07:05 PM
Let's compare Quinn last years top 3. I dont think anyone will debate whether or not his tools are comparable, but does he have IT.



Vince Young- Literally took games over ie national championship game

Cutler- He made a very bad team Vandy competitive, and even beat Tennessee and gave Florida all they could handle.

Lienart- I know he had a very talented team, but he came through in the clutch. How many times was USC down buy 2 or 3 tds, and he brought them back.

I can't say the same thing about the guys in this draft. I refuse to force Quinn into the same category.

Only time will tell...But I think he is worth a #9.

Agent51
04-16-2007, 07:35 PM
I dont think Quinn will be a great qb. I didn't say he would suck either. I personally think his value has been inflated. If he is there at 9 I think we should take him. I just dont want to waste additional picks on an unproven commodity. If he is drafted he'll get 100% of my support, but I just have doubts.

But aren't all QBs, or hell all the players PERIOD "unproven commodities"?

If we don't take the chance on Quinn (as much as I want the guy, I can admit he's a "chance", ALL QBs are), who else in the forseeable future could we get to fix out QB problem? Sure he's a risk, but he has all the measurables to be a great QB. I just think it's time to stop dancing around the QB subject and finally commit, and I don't really see is in better position for a QB next year, nor do I see any GOOD free agents becoming available anytime soon, and I doubt we trade for someone good (I wouldn't even know who to look at in terms of who could be "on the block") so it could be YEARS before we have another shot at a potential talent such as Quinn, and I for one am sick of waiting.

I don't want to give up an entire draft for him either, as much as I think we need him, but I am more than willing to package a 2nd and 3rd, or 1 of those and Culpepper, or I might even go as far as saying BOTH seconds, to get him, because I think he will be something special. Could I be wrong? Of course, but if I honestly thought there was something that wrong with him I wouldn't be advocating him like I am. I'm not one of those people who just picks a guy because he's a big name, or the "sexy" pick, I pick who I want us to take based on who I think is best for us, and at #9 (or higher if we trade up) Quinn is DEFINATELY that guy (IMO of course).

Martel
04-16-2007, 07:40 PM
Beyonce has the "IT" factor

Sofla328
04-16-2007, 08:59 PM
But aren't all QBs, or hell all the players PERIOD "unproven commodities"?

If we don't take the chance on Quinn (as much as I want the guy, I can admit he's a "chance", ALL QBs are), who else in the forseeable future could we get to fix out QB problem? Sure he's a risk, but he has all the measurables to be a great QB. I just think it's time to stop dancing around the QB subject and finally commit, and I don't really see is in better position for a QB next year, nor do I see any GOOD free agents becoming available anytime soon, and I doubt we trade for someone good (I wouldn't even know who to look at in terms of who could be "on the block") so it could be YEARS before we have another shot at a potential talent such as Quinn, and I for one am sick of waiting.

I don't want to give up an entire draft for him either, as much as I think we need him, but I am more than willing to package a 2nd and 3rd, or 1 of those and Culpepper, or I might even go as far as saying BOTH seconds, to get him, because I think he will be something special. Could I be wrong? Of course, but if I honestly thought there was something that wrong with him I wouldn't be advocating him like I am. I'm not one of those people who just picks a guy because he's a big name, or the "sexy" pick, I pick who I want us to take based on who I think is best for us, and at #9 (or higher if we trade up) Quinn is DEFINATELY that guy (IMO of course).

Sexy? I see :limp: