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View Full Version : The I want Levi Brown thread



Perfect23
04-16-2007, 09:58 PM
who else wants him:tongue:

shanem40
04-16-2007, 10:26 PM
i do if quinns not there but i dont want to trade up for quinn

Stitches
04-16-2007, 10:33 PM
It's not that I want him, but I would be happy if we drafted him. He hasn't had the best workouts, but he's performed so well for so long, I don't think he'll have much trouble adjusting to the next level as much as some others think.

dominizzo
04-16-2007, 10:34 PM
Say No To LEvi Say Yes to Joe Staley

alan huber
04-16-2007, 10:54 PM
who else wants him:tongue:

only you man :sidelol:

dominizzo
04-16-2007, 11:00 PM
LOOL Brown will be the next Ryan Diem

SgtPhin
04-16-2007, 11:07 PM
I have to agree with Stitches on this one. I would prefer 2 other players, but if RandyCam select him, I believe he would be a very good addition to our team.

Jaj
04-16-2007, 11:26 PM
I don't want him, but if we pick him then I'll be happy with him. I think yall understand what I'm saying.

uga3406
04-16-2007, 11:32 PM
he has bust written all over him...:lol:

miaD5499
04-16-2007, 11:43 PM
i would accept and agree with drafting levi brown however it wouldnt be my first choice...its a smart one and could really help improve our oline and i can already see his name being called out with the 9th overall pick however im hoping we land a gem with someone who somehow falls lower than projected

Rubbin420
04-16-2007, 11:43 PM
Id take him, but we could do better. The only reason we take him would be due to the enourmous need on the left side.

We could get Staley if we traded down with St. Louis or Cincinnati.
We could offer them a steal for their second and 5th. They would take it.

At that point we grab Staley or Olson or Bowe. We could use their second for Edwards/ Kolb and use ours on Rice and best guard available.

Stitches
04-16-2007, 11:46 PM
Id take him, but we could do better. The only reason we take him would be due to the enourmous need on the left side.

We could get Staley if we traded down with St. Louis or Cincinnati.
We could offer them a steal for their second and 5th. They would take it.

At that point we grab Staley or Olson or Bowe. We could use their second for Edwards/ Kolb and use ours on Rice and best guard available.

I don't know if St Louis would view giving up their 2nd and 5th as a steal. It really depends on who the covet and if they think they can get adequate value at #13.

JWA
04-17-2007, 12:22 AM
I think that this is a very unpredictable draft, although I am currently working on a 7rd mock draft. Every pick for every team. There is a chance that brown may be gone before we pick. If there are no suprises inthe first six picks then you are looking at Minnesota and Atlanta ahead of us. If Minnesota goes BPA, good bye Landry. That leaves Atlanta. They could use a safety, but Landry is gone. They could use a DE to replace Kearney and may take Anderson because Adams would be gone. However, if they don't take Anderson, the next item on Petrino's wish list is a bigger O-Line to run his power spread offence. Say goodbye to Brown. Then who do we take? Remember Quinn and peterson are already gone. Speaking of Atlanta, if we want Kolb we have to take him at #40 as Atlanta will be taking him at #43. Harrington and Redmen are not anyone's idea of a QB of the future. So, if we don't take Brown, we will probably draft defence if he is taken, and take Kolb at #40, Who would be the best o-line available at #60? I don't know, but I bet he doesn't start this year and without an improved o-line God himself couldn't lead this team.

umpalu
04-17-2007, 12:59 AM
I WANT HIM. When we trade down to about the 20th pick that is lol

umpalu
04-17-2007, 01:02 AM
I don't know if St Louis would view giving up their 2nd and 5th as a steal. It really depends on who the covet and if they think they can get adequate value at #13.

St Louis wont move. They want Ginn and want him bad. It is almost like Thomas is sitting there when the Cards pick that is a no brainer. St Louis is the same way with ginn right now. And they know they can get him at their pick most likely. If we mind game them we might be able to pull it though

LostInPatsLand
04-17-2007, 01:04 AM
I want him if we can't get Quinn, or if the coaches remain uncertain about Alabi after the last minicamp. Caveat: If there is a player (like Carriker, Landry or even Peterson) available that has a much higher grade than Brown, you gotta go with BPA.

Brown might not be a perennial Pro Bowler, but I think he could anchor our line for the next decade. I don't have the same opinion about Staley.

It's quite possible Brown is gone before we pick!

Finole
04-17-2007, 02:06 AM
Look at it this way...

QB - Culpepper, Lemon, Trent Green, or a rookie?
RB - Ronnie and Ricky
FB - Sledge
WR - Chambers, Booker, Hagan, and a rookie?
TE - David Martin
LT - ???
LG - Hadnot or Toledo
C - rookie
RG - Shelton
RT - Carey
DE - JT and Roth
DT - Holliday and Evans or Wright
LB - ZT, Crowder, and Porter
CB - Will Allen, Jason Allen, Travis Daniels, or a rookie?
S - Jason Allen, Bell, Tillman, or a rookie?
K - Jay Feely
KR - Marcus Vick?
LS - John Denney
P - Donnie Jones?

Other than Center (which we would draft in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round) and probably Punter (which we would draft in the 4th, 6th, or 7th round), LEFT TACKLE is our biggest need.

I would be shocked if we didn't draft Levi Brown. Shocked.

LostInPatsLand
04-17-2007, 02:27 AM
Look at it this way...

QB - Culpepper, Lemon, Trent Green, or a rookie?
RB - Ronnie and Ricky
FB - Sledge
WR - Chambers, Booker, Hagan, and a rookie?
TE - David Martin
LT - ???
LG - Hadnot or Toledo
C - rookie
RG - Shelton
RT - Carey
DE - JT and Roth
DT - Holliday and Evans or Wright
LB - ZT, Crowder, and Porter
CB - Will Allen, Jason Allen, Travis Daniels, or a rookie?
S - Jason Allen, Bell, Tillman, or a rookie?
K - Jay Feely
KR - Marcus Vick?
LS - John Denney
P - Donnie Jones?

Other than Center (which we would draft in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th round) and probably Punter (which we would draft in the 4th, 6th, or 7th round), LEFT TACKLE is our biggest need.

I would be shocked if we didn't draft Levi Brown. Shocked.

I still think the staff likes Alabi, so it's a good shot but not a slam dunk at #9.

Finole
04-17-2007, 02:55 AM
Here's another way to look it...

If we don't draft Levi Brown in the 1st round, then we're looking at one of these guys:

R1 - Joe Staley OT Central Michigan 6-6 306
R2 - Tony Ugoh OT Arkansas 6-5 301
R3 - Doug Free OT Northern Illinois 6-6 324
R3 - James Marten OT Boston College 6-8 309
R3 - Marshall Yanda OT Iowa 6-4 307
R4 - Ryan Harris OT Notre Dame 6-5 305
R4 - Adam Koets OT Oregon State 6-5 298
R4 - Allen Barbre OT Missouri Southern State 6-4 300
R5 - Mike Otto OT Purdue 6-6 308
R5 - Tala Esera OT Hawaii 6-3 312
R5 - Brandon Frye OT Virginia Tech 6-4 301
R5 - Corey Hilliard OT Oklahoma State 6-5 308
R5 - Herb Taylor OT TCU 6-4 296
R6 - Gabe Hall OT Texas Tech 6-4 313
R6 - Jacob Bender OT Nicholls State 6-6 296
R6 - Dane Uperesa OT Hawaii 6-5 309
R6 - Stephon Heyer OT Maryland 6-7 334
R7 - Mario Henderson OT Florida State 6-7 302
R7 - Chris Denman OT Fresno State 6-7 315
R7 - Steve Vallos OT Wake Forest 6-3 305
R7 - Julius Wilson OT UAB 6-5 327
R7 - Elliot Vallejo OT Cal Davis 6-7 327
UFA - Chase Johnson OT Wyoming 6-9 330
UFA - Andrew Carnahan OT Arizona State 6-7 306
UFA - Ken Shackleford OT Georgia 6-5 322

Not one of them is a sure bet to start in 2007. And most of them are projected to play on the right side. Adam Koets had an amazing combine, and could be a diamond in the rough. Maybe even the next Marcus McNeill. But there's no way to know for sure. And Charlie Weis has said that Ryan Harris is more than capable of playing LT in the NFL.

But the only two guys most likely guaranteed to start next year are Joe Thomas and Levi Brown. Now compare that with every other position available in the 2nd round...

QB - Stanton, Edwards, or Kolb could start by season's end.
RB - Brian Leonard, Antonio Pittman, or Tony Hunt could start.
FB - Cory Anderson could start, and has a 5th round grade.
TE - Zach Miller could start.
OG - Justin Blalock, Arron Sears, and Manuel Ramirez will probably all start.
C - Samson Satele will start.
WR - Sidney Rice, Craig Davis, Steve Smith, Anthony Gonzalez, or Jason Hill could start. At least one of them will.

LB - Brandon Siler, Rufus Alexander, and David Harris could start.
CB - Jonathan Wade, Marcus McCauley, and Eric Wright could start.
S - Michael Griffin, Aaron Rouse, or Eric Weddle could start.
DT - Tank Tyler and Turk McBride could start.
DE - Charles Johnson, Anthony Spencer, LaMarr Woodley, Ikaika Alama-Francis, Tim Crowder, and Victor Abiamiri could all start.

K - Mason Crosby will start, and has a 3rd round grade.
P - Daniel Sepulveda will start, and has a 4th - 5th round grade.
KR - Josh Wilson will start.

So... Left Tackle is the only position that doesn't have a guaranteed starter outside of the 1st round.

Finole
04-17-2007, 02:57 AM
I still think the staff likes Alabi, so it's a good shot but not a slam dunk at #9.

Alabi would be the starter if the season started today. But there isn't a doubt in my mind, if we drafted Levi Brown, he would start ahead of Alabi.

Finole
04-17-2007, 03:51 AM
THE OTHER 1st ROUND PROSPECTS:

If he falls and we draft Adrian Peterson, he will NOT start ahead of Ronnie and/or Ricky. But he would definitely get some playing time.

If he falls and we draft Brady Quinn, he will NOT start ahead of Trent Green or a healthy Daunte Culpepper. But he would be our QB of the future.

If he gets past ATL and we draft LaRon Landry, he will start ahead of Jason Allen, Bell, and/or Tillman.

If we draft Leon Hall, he will start ahead of Will Allen, Travis Daniels, and/or Andre Goodman.

If we draft Amobi Okoye, he will NOT start ahead of Vonnie Holliday or Keith Traylor, but he would beat out Fred Evans, Rod Wright, Manny Wright, and/or Kevin Vickerson.

If we draft Patrick Willis, he will NOT start ahead of ZT, Crowder, or Porter. But he would be a heck of an insurance policy.

If we draft Adam Carriker, I would wonder why Mueller didn't wait until the 2nd round, and take Anthony Spencer or Tim Crowder, both of whom are faster.

If we draft Ted Ginn, he will have an immediate impact on special teams.

Elliott 1
04-17-2007, 04:23 AM
Levi Brown will play gaurd in the NFL. He may be a very good one too, if he lands in the right place. I think he would fit real well in Pittsburgh.

miamiron
04-17-2007, 06:41 AM
who else wants him:tongue:

Quinn has to be your first priority and if that is not possible I would take Levi just not with the number 9 pick..you have to trade down a few spots and aquire a 3rd to make it a value pick...I wouldn't be heartbroken if we got
Staley instead of Levi of course with the same scenerio by trading down and aquiring a third round pick in the process.

miamiron
04-17-2007, 06:56 AM
THE OTHER 1st ROUND PROSPECTS:

If we draft Adam Carriker, I would wonder why Mueller didn't wait until the 2nd round, and take Anthony Spencer or Tim Crowder, both of whom are faster.



Spencer and Crowder both beat Carriker by 2/10s of a second in the 40

BUT CARRIKER
HAD MORE BENCH PRESSES THAN BOTH
HAD A HIGHER VERTICLE THAN BOTH
HAD A FASTER 20 YARD SHUTTLE THAN BOTH
HAD A FASTER 3 CONE DRILL THAN BOTH

So to come out with a statement that take Spencer or Crowder because there faster is just downright wrong

NOW if you would have said Brian Robinson was an absolute
freak with his combine numbers then I would have agreed with you

You also said that Willis would make a great insurance policy...
You dont take insurance policy's for first round picks!!

Or even Ginn making an immediate impact on special teams...
again if I'm picking number 9 my team better be complete and very close to winning the super bowl if I'm throwing a flyer for a special teams player
with pick number 9 other wise I'm going in a different direction.

Rubbin420
04-17-2007, 10:52 AM
I don't know if St Louis would view giving up their 2nd and 5th as a steal. It really depends on who the covet and if they think they can get adequate value at #13.


The best defensive players besides Adams are available at 9. They would seriously consider it.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 12:34 PM
Alabi would be the starter if the season started today. But there isn't a doubt in my mind, if we drafted Levi Brown, he would start ahead of Alabi.

I think u are very much overrating Brown, there has been many players drafted that rated much better then him and could not walk in and start at LT. To me when u watch Brown play he looks like a great fit for the right side. He footwork is very slow compared to great LT prospects, which means he has to make up for that with being agressive and hard work, which is two knocks on Brown lacks aggression and will take plays off. Sorry don't what him, *ell this year alone he was only the 3rd or 4th best Tackle in the Big Ten and this is who u want to start on opening day. To me he lacks the key then to be a great O-line man he plays with out aggresion, I want a line man that wants to kill the other guy.

HybridPHIN 23
04-17-2007, 12:41 PM
I have faith that Hudson Houck knows what he's doing so I'm comfortable with Anthony Alabi as our LT project compared to a 1st rounder.. And to the poster who said Brown would certainly start ahead of Alabi...... i thought i read in the PBpost that no matter who we could draft at LT... Alabi would most likely still be the Front-Runner to start this season.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 12:58 PM
I have faith that Hudson Houck knows what he's doing so I'm comfortable with Anthony Alabi as our LT project compared to a 1st rounder.. And to the poster who said Brown would certainly start ahead of Alabi...... i thought i read in the PBpost that no matter who we could draft at LT... Alabi would most likely still be the Front-Runner to start this season.

This is true people just don't understand very few rookies come in and start at LT and be good. A lot of them start out at RT and then switch later. And some scouts say Brown is a better fit for the right side. People got to understand Brown is not a Pace, Jones, or Ogden. Thomas is not even on that level and he is a lot better then Brown. Brown needs work on his footwork to be a just to be a above average LT in my opinion. He struggled at times against speed rushers in college, let a lone guys in the NFL. A guy like Freeny will put up 3 sacks on Brown with out a problem right now. Brown is very strong and is exellent against the bull rush. But if the DE lines up to his outside and gets a quick first step he struggles to get in front on the guy. Woodley did this to him many times in the Mich game. Just look at Browns combine #'s its not just his 40 time that was slow but all of his times were slow, the suffle, the cones everything. Even Harris out of ND had mush better times then him. Now I now that these don't mean everything but when u combine that with the fact that on the feild he has struggled against to speed rushers, I just don't see him coming in and being able to handle the top NFL rushers, that are fster then college ones.

Finole
04-17-2007, 12:59 PM
Quinn has to be your first priority and if that is not possible I would take Levi just not with the number 9 pick..you have to trade down a few spots and aquire a 3rd to make it a value pick...I wouldn't be heartbroken if we got
Staley instead of Levi of course with the same scenerio by trading down and aquiring a third round pick in the process.

The only problem with that is if you trade down, Houston will pick Levi Brown at the #10 spot.

And, unlike Brown, there's no guarantee that Staley will be able to start next year.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 01:03 PM
The only problem with that is if you trade down, Houston will pick Levi Brown at the #10 spot.

Let them have Levi he is a ok LT maybe a great RT. Staley will take longer but with good coaching will be a better LT. He just has a lot quicker feet then brown which is very important for a LT.

Finole
04-17-2007, 01:18 PM
Spencer and Crowder both beat Carriker by 2/10s of a second in the 40

BUT CARRIKER
HAD MORE BENCH PRESSES THAN BOTH
HAD A HIGHER VERTICLE THAN BOTH
HAD A FASTER 20 YARD SHUTTLE THAN BOTH
HAD A FASTER 3 CONE DRILL THAN BOTH

So to come out with a statement that take Spencer or Crowder because there faster is just downright wrong

NOW if you would have said Brian Robinson was an absolute
freak with his combine numbers then I would have agreed with you

To say that Spencer and Crowder only beat Carriker by 2/10s of a second in the 40 is like saying that Carriker only beat Spencer and Crowder by 2/10s of a second in the Three Cone Drill. You can't have it both ways. Let's just say all three are very athletic.

All three had excellent production in college. And of the three, Spencer might be the best pass rusher. So if we're looking for a compliment to JT, then Carriker or Crowder would be great. If we're looking for an eventual replacement for JT, then Spencer is probably the guy.


You also said that Willis would make a great insurance policy...
You dont take insurance policy's for first round picks!!

I agree. But we would both be singing a different tune if ZT went down with an injury this year.


Or even Ginn making an immediate impact on special teams...
again if I'm picking number 9 my team better be complete and very close to winning the super bowl if I'm throwing a flyer for a special teams player
with pick number 9 other wise I'm going in a different direction.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of selecting Ginn with the #9 pick. Ginn has a much better chance than Levi Brown of being there if we could swing a trade down.

But go to YouTube and look at his highlights. The guy is amazing. But I agree with some scouts who say that he is a luxury pick for a team that doesn't have many holes to fill. Indianapolis, for example, doesn't need another WR, but a guy like Hester or Ginn would take them to another level.

Unfortunately, the Fins don't have the luxury of drafting Ginn. But if somehow traded down because Levi Brown and Brady Quinn were off the board, then Ginn might be not only an option, but BPA.

chillyphins
04-17-2007, 01:36 PM
What are the chances that we draft Levi Brown and if he doesn't work out as a left tackle swap him and Carey. Carey has come a long way from his rookie season....would there be potential that he could be the ellusive left tackle we are looking for?

Finole
04-17-2007, 01:39 PM
I think u are very much overrating Brown, there has been many players drafted that rated much better then him and could not walk in and start at LT. To me when u watch Brown play he looks like a great fit for the right side. He footwork is very slow compared to great LT prospects, which means he has to make up for that with being agressive and hard works the key then to be a great O-line man he plays with out aggresion, I want a line man that wants to kill the other guy.

I have read several scouting reports that say Brown is very quick, has great footwork, and plays with a lot of aggression. So who do I believe?

On PATH TO THE DRAFT, they have said that we are into the nit-picking stage of the draft. Aside from Calvin Johnson, every player in the draft has a few negatives as well as positives.

I have heard the criticism that Brown will take plays off. I have also heard that is something that can be corrected with coaching and conditioning. Brown's quickness and strength can't be coached. You either have that, or you don't.

Levi Brown is a road-grader. A perfect fit for the Zampese offense. He will create lanes for Ronnie and Ricky to run through. And when he locks onto a guy, it's over. Does he have room for improvement? Yes, he will need to be more consistent as far as pass protection goes. He might get beat by the better pass rushers in the league every once in a while, but he won't be the only LT those guys beat. And don't forget, we have Houck to help him with that.

I'll tell you this. You will never see Levi Brown get backed up into the QB. I'd be stoked if the Fins selected him in the 1st round.

dlockz
04-17-2007, 01:45 PM
I have faith that Hudson Houck knows what he's doing so I'm comfortable with Anthony Alabi as our LT project compared to a 1st rounder.. And to the poster who said Brown would certainly start ahead of Alabi...... i thought i read in the PBpost that no matter who we could draft at LT... Alabi would most likely still be the Front-Runner to start this season.


How can anyone tell anything so early in the year. Houck is no magic man and its not Alabi showed enough to play last year on a mediocre line. I think Brown is immensly more talented than Alabi and would start ahead of him easily.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 01:52 PM
What are the chances that we draft Levi Brown and if he doesn't work out as a left tackle swap him and Carey. Carey has come a long way from his rookie season....would there be potential that he could be the ellusive left tackle we are looking for?

It would be hard to say to me they both are very simular type of players. Both are very strong and hard to move, but at the same time they both have very simular workout #'s and athletic ability. Although these #'s were when Carey weighed more then he does now, which is to me what helped him a lot was to lose weight. I would still think that while both can be effective to good LT's they just don't have that pure natural footwork and lateral movement that top notch LT's have.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 02:09 PM
I have read several scouting reports that say Brown is very quick, has great footwork, and plays with a lot of aggression. So who do I believe?

On PATH TO THE DRAFT, they have said that we are into the nit-picking stage of the draft. Aside from Calvin Johnson, every player in the draft has a few negatives as well as positives.

I have heard the criticism that Brown will take plays off. I have also heard that is something that can be corrected with coaching and conditioning. Brown's quickness and strength can't be coached. You either have that, or you don't.

Levi Brown is a road-grader. A perfect fit for the Zampese offense. He will create lanes for Ronnie and Ricky to run through. And when he locks onto a guy, it's over. Does he have room for improvement? Yes, he will need to be more consistent as far as pass protection goes. He might get beat by the better pass rushers in the league every once in a while, but he won't be the only LT those guys beat. And don't forget, we have Houck to help him with that.

I'll tell you this. You will never see Levi Brown get backed up into the QB. I'd be stoked if the Fins selected him in the 1st round.

While yes u can find all different type of scouting reports that say different things, I would say that half of them say one way and the other half say it the other way. No that raises some Questions right there cause u will be very hard pressed to find any saying that a guy like Thomas lacks footwork or pure athlitic ability, which to me is a must to be a top 10 LT pick. Now since reports from the scouts say both, then I go by what I have seen him do on the field, being a big ten fan I have seen him play a lot and he struggles at times to get out against fast player, I don't see that happen much with Thomas or Long (Mich) who I have also seen play a lot. Then I also look at his workout #'s and he belwo most top rated LT's. Now will he be a bust in the NFL no I don't think that at, But he is not ready to start at LT right away, and to me he is very simular to Carey in that he coul develop into a good LT at best, or a Top notch pro-bowl RT. But we a player like that and in the Top 10 I want a top notch LT. This years draft was ruined at the LT spot the moment that both Long and Baker opted not to enter the draft cause both of them were rated higher then Brown was. Thats why Brown has really rose up the boards is because those two decided to stay in school.

miamiron
04-17-2007, 02:10 PM
To say that Spencer and Crowder only beat Carriker by 2/10s of a second in the 40 is like saying that Carriker only beat Spencer and Crowder by 2/10s of a second in the Three Cone Drill. You can't have it both ways. Let's just say all three are very athletic.

All three had excellent production in college. And of the three, Spencer might be the best pass rusher. So if we're looking for a compliment to JT, then Carriker or Crowder would be great. If we're looking for an eventual replacement for JT, then Spencer is probably the guy.



I agree. But we would both be singing a different tune if ZT went down with an injury this year.



Don't get me wrong. I'm not in favor of selecting Ginn with the #9 pick. Ginn has a much better chance than Levi Brown of being there if we could swing a trade down.

But go to YouTube and look at his highlights. The guy is amazing. But I agree with some scouts who say that he is a luxury pick for a team that doesn't have many holes to fill. Indianapolis, for example, doesn't need another WR, but a guy like Hester or Ginn would take them to another level.

Unfortunately, the Fins don't have the luxury of drafting Ginn. But if somehow traded down because Levi Brown and Brady Quinn were off the board, then Ginn might be not only an option, but BPA.

All good points but I disagree with you on drafting someone with our number one pick and letting them "marinate" on the bench the better part of the year.

Now if you were to say lets pick a Zach DeOssie as future replacement for Thomas in the 3rd or 4th or a Bryan Robison as a future replacement for Taylor in the same rounds then I could live with them sitting the bench or atleast get marginal playing time untill our hero's eventually retire.

As for Ginn...I know he has potential to be an outstanding return man
Do you know how many return TDs he had in 3 years at Ohio??

We all know about his route running problems so no need to beat a dead horse but I have asked to no avail what about his ONLY being thrown to 6 times in 37 games while in the red zone...This is a huge red flag!!!!!!!

Imagine in a 3 year college career and only thrown to 6 times when it mattered most.

This tells me that his route running abilities and his ability to create space are much worse in that small 20 yard red zone....and you know one of the weakness of our offense is the lack of production by our wideouts in the redzone...If the past is any indication of the future then Ginn may not be what this team needs at wide receiver .

I enjoyed reading your post even though I don't agree on some points
but that's what makes it great here!!

Finole
04-17-2007, 02:17 PM
This is true people just don't understand very few rookies come in and start at LT and be good. A lot of them start out at RT and then switch later. And some scouts say Brown is a better fit for the right side. People got to understand Brown is not a Pace, Jones, or Ogden. Thomas is not even on that level and he is a lot better then Brown. Brown needs work on his footwork to be a just to be a above average LT in my opinion. He struggled at times against speed rushers in college, let a lone guys in the NFL. A guy like Freeny will put up 3 sacks on Brown with out a problem right now. Brown is very strong and is exellent against the bull rush. But if the DE lines up to his outside and gets a quick first step he struggles to get in front on the guy. Woodley did this to him many times in the Mich game. Just look at Browns combine #'s its not just his 40 time that was slow but all of his times were slow, the suffle, the cones everything. Even Harris out of ND had mush better times then him. Now I now that these don't mean everything but when u combine that with the fact that on the feild he has struggled against to speed rushers, I just don't see him coming in and being able to handle the top NFL rushers, that are fster then college ones.

Who said Brown is a better fit for the right side? Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Gil Brandt, Pete Prisco, John Murphy, Pat Kirwan, and Vic Carucci all consider him to be an elite Left Tackle prospect.

Levi Brown played against Victor Abiamiri (Notre Dame), Quinn Pitcock (Ohio St), David Patterson (Ohio St) LaMarr Woodley (Michigan), Anthony Spencer (Purdue), Justin Harrell (Tennessee) and Turk McBride (Tennessee). I think he'll be just fine against the majority of guys playing in the NFL.

I mean, c'mon, Shawne Merriman, Aaron Kampman, Aaron Schobel, Julius Peppers, Derrick Burgess, and Adalius Thomas give everybody fits. And practicing against Jason Taylor everyday will only help Levi Brown improve. Let's not carried away here, either. Levi Brown is very, very good at pass protection. Better than most. He just needs to be a little more consistent. That's nit-picking. Every LT in the NFL gives up a sack now and then.

Finole
04-17-2007, 02:27 PM
While yes u can find all different type of scouting reports that say different things, I would say that half of them say one way and the other half say it the other way. No that raises some Questions right there cause u will be very hard pressed to find any saying that a guy like Thomas lacks footwork or pure athlitic ability, which to me is a must to be a top 10 LT pick.

Funny you should bring up Joe Thomas. Would you be surprised to learn that Levi Brown had a better 3-Cone Drill than Thomas? And their 20 Yrd Shuttle was virtually identical. Also, Brown did more reps of 225 lbs.

I think you should do a little more research before you go on the record saying that Levi Brown doesn't have good footwork. By most accounts, he is extremely quick and agile, especially for a guy his size.


This years draft was ruined at the LT spot the moment that both Long and Baker opted not to enter the draft cause both of them were rated higher then Brown was. Thats why Brown has really rose up the boards is because those two decided to stay in school.

This line of reasoning doesn't hold water with me. There's no rule that says there must be at least two top-notch LT prospects in the draft. If Long and Baker entered the draft, maybe they would be rated higher than Levi Brown, but he would still get a 1st round grade.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 02:32 PM
Who said Brown is a better fit for the right side? Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Gil Brandt, Pete Prisco, John Murphy, Pat Kirwan, and Vic Carucci all consider him to be an elite Left Tackle prospect.

Levi Brown played against Victor Abiamiri (Notre Dame), Quinn Pitcock (Ohio St), David Patterson (Ohio St) LaMarr Woodley (Michigan), Anthony Spencer (Purdue), Justin Harrell (Tennessee) and Turk McBride (Tennessee). I think he'll be just fine against the majority of guys playing in the NFL.

I mean, c'mon, Shawne Merriman, Aaron Kampman, Aaron Schobel, Julius Peppers, Derrick Burgess, and Adalius Thomas give everybody fits. And practicing against Jason Taylor everyday will only help Levi Brown improve. Let's not carried away here, either. Levi Brown is very, very good at pass protection. Better than most. He just needs to be a little more consistent. That's nit-picking. Every LT in the NFL gives up a sack now and then.

U call what he did playing against Woodley, I think u better go watch that game real quick, cause I call that being owned. Woodley had 2 sacks and was in the QB's face all day. All together Mich had like 8 sacks and nocked out 2 QB's. I think Brown and the O-line of Penn state how that that game is never brought up again. And yes half those guys have said he would be a better RT then they said this then they said this. Its the media whatever the hype and will sell is what they are say. Brown is the hype because a lack of LT talent in this draft. He did not even make his own confernace first Team. Will he get drafted higher then he talent yes cause some team Hopfully houston not us will reach for need at a weak position in the draft.

Finole
04-17-2007, 02:37 PM
All good points but I disagree with you on drafting someone with our number one pick and letting them "marinate" on the bench the better part of the year.

I'm not hoping for Willis at all. But if he is the BPA, and we couldn't trade down, I think he would be the smart pick. That's all I'm saying.


Now if you were to say lets pick a Zach DeOssie as future replacement for Thomas in the 3rd or 4th or a Bryan Robison as a future replacement for Taylor in the same rounds then I could live with them sitting the bench or atleast get marginal playing time untill our hero's eventually retire.

Love Zak DeOssie and Brian Robison. I agree with you 100%.


As for Ginn...I know he has potential to be an outstanding return man
Do you know how many return TDs he had in 3 years at Ohio??

We all know about his route running problems so no need to beat a dead horse but I have asked to no avail what about his ONLY being thrown to 6 times in 37 games while in the red zone...This is a huge red flag!!!!!!!

Imagine in a 3 year college career and only thrown to 6 times when it mattered most.

This tells me that his route running abilities and his ability to create space are much worse in that small 20 yard red zone....and you know one of the weakness of our offense is the lack of production by our wideouts in the redzone...If the past is any indication of the future then Ginn may not be what this team needs at wide receiver .

I enjoyed reading your post even though I don't agree on some points
but that's what makes it great here!!

Thanks, man.

I don't know how many return TDs Ginn had at Ohio St. But I was floored by his highlights on YouTube. The guy is incredible. Personally, I think the Fins should draft a more polished WR, not a return guy who may or may not turn out to be a good WR. But if we did draft Ginn, there's no doubt he would have an impact. And he would have an impact from day 1.

Finole
04-17-2007, 02:43 PM
U call what he did playing against Woodley, I think u better go watch that game real quick, cause I call that being owned. Woodley had 2 sacks and was in the QB's face all day. All together Mich had like 8 sacks and nocked out 2 QB's. I think Brown and the O-line of Penn state how that that game is never brought up again. And yes half those guys have said he would be a better RT then they said this then they said this. Its the media whatever the hype and will sell is what they are say. Brown is the hype because a lack of LT talent in this draft. He did not even make his own confernace first Team. Will he get drafted higher then he talent yes cause some team Hopfully houston not us will reach for need at a weak position in the draft.

Every player has bad games from time to time. Just because he had a bad day against Woodley doesn't mean Levi Brown is better suited to play RT.

And I challenge you to back up your statements. Find me just one quote (with a link) where Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Gil Brandt, Pete Prisco, John Murphy, Pat Kirwan, or Vic Carucci called Levi Brown better suited to play on the right side.

Take your time. I won't hold my breath.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 03:43 PM
"Levi Brown looks like an excellent right tackle prospect. He has the strong frame, and plays with very good power in the running game. He can dominate at the point of attack, and move defenders off the line. Brown will also finish off run plays by driving his man into the ground. He also shows the ability to keep the defender in front of him in pass protection. Brown may bring quite a bit of versatility. He’s played left tackle in college, and may be able to play there in the NFL. His best spot looks like RT, and his ability as a run blocker could allow him to play inside at guard as well.

Judging him as the left tackle spot he has played in college, Brown may lack the athleticism and agility to be a top notch left tackle at the next level. He may be able to hold his own, but it is something he will have to prove once drafted. As a right tackle however, he appears to be what everyone looks for at the position."

Article From Footballfutures.

"Levi Brown, Penn State... 6-5, 323, 5.25, SR… One of the most productive offensive linemen in the country in a pretty good year at the position; Brown is a prototype road grader drive blocking with a powerful lower body; comes hard off the snap, keeps his pads low and really delivers a pop at the point of attack; really locks onto defender; has decent straight-line quickness and can make a block in space; adequate pass blocker with long arms who is a long way around; has an assertive punch but doesn’t always get much arm extension; tends to be a little heavy-footed and will struggle to stay with fast outside speed rushers; also doesn’t always keep feet alive and has limited change of direction agility. Hard worker with weight-room strength. Summary: Potential mid-to-late first round prospect for 2007, although more a RT prospect because of lack of pure athleticism."

Source GBN. There is two right there as far as Kiper and all the sports guys u hear it on there TV/radio shows. almost everything they say changes from week to week. I did search Kiper online but u have to have insider for about anything that he says online. Like I said it is very easy to find stuff that agrees with ur opinion I even admitted a lot of them said what u said. I have watched the guy play a lot he is just not in the class of must top notch LT prospects. How many times have u really watch him play? I may be wrong in the end but Kiper and draft scouts will be wrong on some too. And u say that the Mich game was just one game, I have seen he in a lo of games that he was not very great. Look at it this way in that one game he gave up more sacks then M. McNeil gave up in his college career, say with O. Pace. He is just not a top 10 type of LT prospect. Even in Kipers last big board he fell to 17 now. Sporting news has him 42 on theres but have him going to Houston in the draft, which to me is a big reach for need. U can say all u want over and over but there are many reports out there they say what I am saying and I am not going off them I am going off what I say with my own two eyes many of times he is just not in that top notch class based of play on the field.

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 03:58 PM
Almost forgot the links for you:
www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/levi_brown.html
http://www.gbnreport.com/2007otprofiles.html

Like I say take a lot of scouting reports how u want I can find some that say Brown has great athleticism then some that say the Opposite. My final conclusion is based off watching the guy play.

Perfect23
04-17-2007, 04:22 PM
I also wouldn't mind taken amobi o'koye

Finole
04-17-2007, 04:46 PM
There is two right there.....

So who do I believe, Mike Mayock or that article from Football's Future? Pat Kirwan or that article from GBN?

Lookit, all I'm saying is... Nobody on this forum knows whether Levi Brown will be a LT, a RT, a starter, a bust, or a Pro-Bowler. Hopefully, Cam and Mueller know. I'm sure they have more information to go on than you or me. If they draft him, great. If they pass, that's fine, too. But from what little I know, I like the (potential) pick.


.....as far as Kiper and all the sports guys u hear it on there TV/radio shows. almost everything they say changes from week to week.....

So you want me to just take your word for it? Sorry, I have a mind of my own.


I have watched the guy play a lot he is just not in the class of must top notch LT prospects. How many times have u really watch him play?

I watched him play in the Senior Bowl, and I thought he looked great. I've also seen Mike Mayock break down some of his game film on PATH TO THE DRAFT.


I may be wrong in the end but Kiper and draft scouts will be wrong on some too. And u say that the Mich game was just one game, I have seen he in a lo of games that he was not very great.

Which ones?


Even in Kipers last big board he fell to 17 now.

Fox Sports has him rated #6.


Sporting news has him 42 on theres

Pete Prisco has him at #9.

All that really matters is where do the Fins rate him?


U can say all u want over and over but there are many reports out there they say what I am saying and I am not going off them I am going off what I say with my own two eyes many of times he is just not in that top notch class based of play on the field.

You're entitled to your opinion. Will you allow me to have mine?

dan the fin
04-17-2007, 05:13 PM
Finole, First were did I say u can't have an opinion. I never said u could not and I was stating my opinion. You said there were no reports saying that he was better suited for RT, but there are. And I don't care if u believe me one way or another on whether Kiper or any of those guys u listed said it or not. Cause guess what all of those guys predictions are not right and no better then those sites. And yes I know Kiper stated he was a better fit for RT once before, all of those guys change there reports and minds all the time. Like I said watch him play and make ur own opinion don't just follow the sheep.

J Tes
04-17-2007, 05:48 PM
LOOL Brown will be the next Ryan Diem

A solid right tackle drafted in the 4th round? You make it sound as if Diem is not a solid player. He has definatly out played were he was drafted. Not so sure were you are going with that comment

Finole
04-17-2007, 06:12 PM
Finole, First were did I say u can't have an opinion. I never said u could not and I was stating my opinion. You said there were no reports saying that he was better suited for RT, but there are.

If you want to talk about who said what, I would suggest using the quote function on this forum. Here's what I actually wrote:


I challenge you to back up your statements. Find me just one quote (with a link) where Mike Mayock, Mel Kiper, Gil Brandt, Pete Prisco, John Murphy, Pat Kirwan, or Vic Carucci called Levi Brown better suited to play on the right side.

I think you got confused. I wasn't disputing the fact that there were any reports saying that Levi Brown was better suited for RT. I was disputing the fact that any of those 7 prominent scouts said Brown was better suited to play on the right side.


And I don't care if u believe me one way or another on whether Kiper or any of those guys u listed said it or not. Cause guess what all of those guys predictions are not right and no better then those sites. And yes I know Kiper stated he was a better fit for RT once before, all of those guys change there reports and minds all the time.

It's not that I don't believe you. I just find that people get a little carried away on these forums sometimes. If you heard Mel Kiper say that. Fine. But that's not what he's saying now. And I have never heard Mike Mayock, Gil Brandt, Pete Prisco, John Murphy, Pat Kirwan, or Vic Carucci call Levi Brown anything other than an elite Left Tackle prospect.


Like I said watch him play and make ur own opinion don't just follow the sheep.

I have watched him play. And as I already said. I have a mind of my own. Are you trying to be insulting?

TRUEPHIN
04-17-2007, 06:29 PM
Count me in for wanting Brown. We need to build from the inside out. Brown in the 1st and Kalil in the 2nd would be ideal to me. As much as I hate to say it, I wouldn't mind following the blueprint of the Jets draft last year of Brick and Mangold. Build a strong line for years to come. That way, whatever QB we put in the lineup actually has a chance to succeed. Brown is strong and a punishing run blocker. I like his pass blocking as well. Houck can only help develop him further. Playing against JT in practice won't hurt either. He started at Penn State for a strong program and played against strong competition. Every rookie will struggle at times but the payoff will be worth it. QBs, WRs and secondary will all still be available to be had with our other picks.

HenneGivenSunday
04-17-2007, 06:59 PM
All three current mock drafts on cbssportsline (http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/draft/mock) have the Dolphins taking Levi Brown @ #9.

Ronnieisabeast
04-17-2007, 09:34 PM
I'm all for Levi Brown. Here's why: every weakness that people point out on Levi is correctable(from what I've seen). His techinque seems to be his biggest problem and with Houck as our lineman coach I think we could fix that fairly easily. Levi Brown has great strenght and is so strong at the point of the attack. The second he gets inside of you, you're done. I really think he could make our run game very good , and a good run game and great defense can be a dangerous combo vs. any team in the NFL.

finfan54
04-18-2007, 06:57 AM
LOOL Brown will be the next Ryan Diem

Next Tarik Glenn. Way off. No comparison.


I think everbody knows I want Levi Brown. Who cares? Im just a cluelass laddy who has never played the game of football before. Or have I?


Have any of you? Do people really have a clue on this message board about anything other than the one or two guys they have fallen in love with?

I just hope to god we get Brady Quinn and that we trade up to get him if neccessary so Mueller wont embarrass himself by trading down and getting Ginn or Staley.

finfan54
04-18-2007, 07:00 AM
I'm all for Levi Brown. Here's why: every weakness that people point out on Levi is correctable(from what I've seen). His techinque seems to be his biggest problem and with Houck as our lineman coach I think we could fix that fairly easily. Levi Brown has great strenght and is so strong at the point of the attack. The second he gets inside of you, you're done. I really think he could make our run game very good , and a good run game and great defense can be a dangerous combo vs. any team in the NFL.


Problem is is that Houck doesnt like guys who are ready to start right away. He likes guys with upside like Staley who require years to come to fruition. We already have Staley on our team right now in alabi who has just now bulked up after two years. That is what you will be looking at if we get Staley. He wont start right away and Alabi will be the guy while Staley does his time.

This IMO, will not work for the short term. God I hope we get Quinn or Landry or Willis cus I dont think we are drafting Levi Brown, but he sure is on my top priority list.