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ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 11:01 AM
People who completely disapprove of Brady Quinn being the Dolphins' pick, please feel free to click the "Back" button. I understand and respect your opinions about Quinn not being an NFL quarterback, I just disagree.

Credit to aquaman for initially breaching this subject in another thread (mentioned Miami could take Peterson at #9 and then try and pull an Eli-Rivers type trade).

There are a lot of draft scenarios that could play out two weeks from now.

The following would be the pre-conditions for the one I'm talking about:

1. Oakland chooses Jamarcus Russell. I've had Calvin Johnson to the Raiders since December, but I have to admit the Russell pick is gaining steam for them unless they find a QB right now. What I have said since December, is that knowing Al Davis, he's going to come to a contract agreement with two or three prospects, and let everyone guess which one it will be right up until the Commish walks to that podium. That, I believe you can count on. Will he pick Russell? Seems like a dead 50/50 chance nowadays.

2. Cleveland chooses Brady Quinn over Adrian Peterson. OK, so maybe I'm discounting the possibility that the Lions (or Bucs, very real trade up possibility) will take Quinn or Peterson...but I think I have reason to. There's a lot of speculation about Quinn vs. Peterson in Cleveland. I feel that they'll take Peterson when push comes to shove but MANY feel differently and I could be wrong. This is kind of a "what if you're wrong" scenario. So let's say they have a tough decision ahead of them, and when it comes right down to it, Randy Lerner insists that they take the quarterback.

3. Nobody from #4 to #8 takes Peterson. This is the biggest stretch of the three pre-conditions. Involves the Cardinals, Vikings, and Falcons passing up on Peterson, but also involves not having a team like the Bills or Packers jump up with a trade and grab him. Costs would be prohibitive up until around the Vikings' and Falcons' pick. But, the old rule of draft day is that runningbacks fall...for whatever reason. In this case Peterson may be the best pure runner to come out since Barry but one could argue that an upright running style on a 6'2" guy lends itself to exactly the kind of injuries that he faced in his sophomore and junior years.


At this point there are a number of things you do. When/if Peterson makes it to #8, that is when you start making your first phone calls. As I said, the Bills and Packers could both be interested in trading up. The Broncos may be interested, even with the big contract to Travis Henry. I tell you the Titans should be interested, with LenDale White coming to training program fit for Eddie Murphy's latest "it's funny when I wear 19 different fat suits" movie.

But, one of the first phone calls I would make though would be to the Cleveland Browns, even though they have already picked.

The reason I would be calling them is because of the risk that will have been alleviated when Adrian Peterson makes it to #9.

The Dolphins have likely already talked to the Browns about a trade up for Quinn, and I'm going to tell you right now Phil Savage is probably playing hard ball on the price tag. That kind of cost, moving up from #9 to #3, is pretty prohibitive, very hard to swallow. I've no doubt that Randy Mueller has resisted the idea.

On the trade value chart, the move is from Pick #9 (1350 pts) to Pick #3 (2200 pts). The spread (850 pts) is the equivalent of the #20 pick in the draft. HIGH cost.

But when it gets down to it, Randy Mueller could argue with Phil Savage that part of that built in cost is a risk factor. The reason why moves that far at the top are so expensive is because the further down you drop, the less chance you have of getting the "other" player you want.

If Peterson makes it to #9, the risk factor is gone.

I'll put it this way. Let's say you're Phil Savage. You want Quinn or Peterson and you are racking your brain about this decision. Peterson allows you to win a lot of ball games right now, in 2007. He also happens to be the best pure yard-gaining runner to come out in 20 years. But, he's got injury risk. Meanwhile Brady Quinn could be a franchise QB and we all know how hard those are to find, but you have to be at least a little uncomfortable with his not performing quite as well when he faced defenses that have good, fast athletes in the secondary like LSU. Your owner wants a quarterback, one way or the other.

Miami comes at you with a trade offer. But, dropping down from #3 to #9, basically the chances are you won't get EITHER player. So why do it, unless Miami is offering you a boat load of picks and maybe a player or two?

But then the draft comes rolling around again and the next time Miami talks to you, you've got Brady Quinn in your pocket and Miami has Adrian Peterson in their pocket.

The nature of the trade negotiation should have changed, in that scenario, because the element of risk has been alleviated.

Let's go back for a moment. How does Miami best take advantage of this situation IF the first three pre-conditions are satisfied?

Well, it'll take some planning ahead, to be honest.

Contact with the Browns prior to the draft is necessary. You must get them to set a market for a move from pick #9 to pick #3.

And with the price tag being predictably too high, what you ALSO have to do, is start negotiating with them on scenarios where Miami acquires the #5 or #6 pick in the draft, and then trades up even further. It would be rather obvious in the negotiations with Cleveland that the primary reason for the high price tag from #3 to #9 would be the fact that they can't expect to get Quinn or Peterson anymore.

So use that. You have to try and pin Savage into a corner before draft day, because you sure as heck aren't going to do it in 10 minutes on draft day. Start probing Cleveland on their price tags should Miami be able to move up from #9 to #6 or #5, where the Browns could expect to get Adrian Peterson.

What you're trying to do is get them to quantify their risk premium. At #5 overall they could basically be assured of getting Peterson...so pretend you have the Cards on the line, they're interested in the possibility of dropping down to #9, and you think you can get a decent price and use that as a staging point to move up to #3.

Once you've found out that price tag in advance, if the pre-conditions for all this happen and on draft day Peterson falls to #9, that is when you hammer Phil Savage.

Negotiating is about weapons, and leverage...your weapons are convention, logic...rationale.

On Phil Savage's side his primary weapon would be the trade value chart. The chart says he should get 850 points. His leverage is time, since he would have to think Miami would not risk taking Peterson at #9 and having a trade fall through...and if Miami does take Peterson then Savage has a new kind of leverage in knowing that Cleveland would be perfectly comfortable rostering Brady Quinn while Miami would be nervous as heck about having to sign Peterson to a contract to team up with Ronnie Brown.

In all likelihood though, prior to draft day, Savage himself probably already argued AGAINST the trade value chart, as I'm sure Cleveland's price tag for moving from #3 to #9 was probably more than the prescribed 850 points.

On Miami's side, they have a lot of weapons...if they laid this out correctly.

For one thing, through previous negotiation they should have found out how far down Cleveland would have been willing to drop and still feel comfortable getting their man. What they can do with this information is demonstrate the risk premium that Cleveland was demanding with their previous offer, and then to show how the circumstances themselves have eliminated the risk premium...because Miami now has Cleveland's man in their pocket.

For another thing, the circumstances have made Peterson more valuable than he would have been, had Cleveland picked him at the #5 or #6 pick...let alone the #3 pick. This is, of course, because at the #9 pick you probably have to pay Peterson HALF the money you would have otherwise had to pay him. That's a big premium.

For leverage, Miami would have the other side of the aisle. An Adrian Peterson doesn't fall down to #9 without having the teams that really want a runner clamor for him...such as the Packers, Bills, and Titans. Convince Cleveland that their negotiating need be done with Miami and only Miami, because one way or the other, Adrian Peterson is going at #9.

With the leverage and the carefully laid-out weapons...my speculation is that Miami would be able to get Brady Quinn out of Cleveland for the #40 pick in the draft.

This may seem high to some Dolphins fans, and low to some Browns fans. It needs to be high because Savage cannot allow the perception that he got completely raped. Miami doesn't have leverage strong enough to get him to lose face. The #40 pick in the draft is worth 500 points on the chart.

To Browns fans, this would seem low...as the traditional chart guides that they should be getting the equivalent of the #20 pick, not the #40 pick. But, the fact of the matter is the chart guides about 500 points of spread between the #3 and #5 picks in the draft...and had you eliminated risk, the Browns probably would have asked that Miami trade up to the #5 pick and THEN trade up to the #3 pick.

When it gets down to it I believe that Savage wants Peterson, but that his owner Randy Lerner wants a quarterback. Armed with the #35 and #40 picks in the second round, I think he could have a decent chance of convincing Lerner to take the guy that helps them win now, the guy that Savage in all honesty probably has rated higher than Brady Quinn.

Miami gets their man, Cleveland gets their man, and Miami had to give up only one of its second round picks to complete the thing.

This is a possibility that I would say Randy Mueller should be prepping for, because there's a small chance it could play out.

At the very least the possibility of Adrian Peterson falling to #9 has to have been discussed in many ways by this staff to figure out what they could do, where they could trade, etc...because Peterson is one of the few commodities that could become available at #9 that other teams would be inclined to trade for.

Boomer
04-17-2007, 11:19 AM
Quin sux

jim1
04-17-2007, 11:19 AM
Great post. I think that if, IF, Mueller/Cameron are convinced that Quinn is the guy and Peterson slips to #9, I'm all for it. I'll take it a step further- trade the '08 #1 if that's what it takes. A heavy price, but this QB situation has to be resolved, the sooner the better. It would be great for Quinn to slip a la Leinart, but he might not, and we have to get our QB. What I don't know is how closely Beck, Edwards, Stanton, Kolb might be rated as compared to Quinn. Assuming that Quinn is head and shoulders above, just get him. It's high time to address this team's Achille's heel. If we trade the '08 #1, we can do a lot of hole filling with the picks in rounds 2-4.

showstopper
04-17-2007, 11:26 AM
BOOM would you care to elaborate on your comment?

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 11:31 AM
BOOM would you care to elaborate on your comment?

Pssst...he was being facetious. :)

SpurzN703
04-17-2007, 11:31 AM
Quin sux

From a post with like 2000 words to a post with 2. :sidelol:

WISfinfan13
04-17-2007, 11:32 AM
that senario is wack man...

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 11:32 AM
Great post. I think that if, IF, Mueller/Cameron are convinced that Quinn is the guy and Peterson slips to #9, I'm all for it. I'll take it a step further- trade the '08 #1 if that's what it takes. A heavy price, but this QB situation has to be resolved, the sooner the better. It would be great for Quinn to slip a la Leinart, but he might not, and we have to get our QB. What I don't know is how closely Beck, Edwards, Stanton, Kolb might be rated as compared to Quinn. Assuming that Quinn is head and shoulders above, just get him. It's high time to address this team's Achille's heel. If we trade the '08 #1, we can do a lot of hole filling with the picks in rounds 2-4.

That would be a hefty price to pay considering what I was outlining about how Peterson falling to #9 has reduced Cleveland's risk.

I'd hard ball them at the #40 pick. And yes, I think it is about time this QB situation gets resolved.

fishypete
04-17-2007, 11:46 AM
First CK...the assumption is that the Dolphins really want Quinn in the first place....I don't believe we know that as fact. I could see Peterson dropping into the Dolphins hands but what then? We know that at least three teams would love to have Peterson...the Bills, the Packers and the Giants...there's where the real deal comes into play in my mind. At worse...we keep Peterson...that isn't a bad thing considering Ricky is at his end, at 30 you don't have much left and can you depend on him? At best we trade him to one of those three teams...for picks...that could help the teams future.

jim1
04-17-2007, 11:47 AM
That would be a hefty price to pay considering what I was outlining about how Peterson falling to #9 has reduced Cleveland's risk.

I'd hard ball them at the #40 pick. And yes, I think it is about time this QB situation gets resolved.

Yeah, their beta is lowered with Peterson in the mix, I agree. The obvious downside to the '08 #1 scenario is that Quinn doesn't pan out and we suck next year, missing out on a great player. Who's coming out next year at QB, Brohm? I'd rather have Quinn. Like I said, this is contingent on a complete conviction on Mueller/Cameron's part as per Quinn. If he's their guy and blows away this year's second tier QB's, then I say just do it. This monkey business at QB has to stop. Time to make a stand and live with the consequences.

fishypete
04-17-2007, 11:49 AM
First CK...the assumption is that the Dolphins really want Quinn in the first place....I don't believe we know that as fact. I could see Peterson dropping into the Dolphins hands but what then? We know that at least three teams would love to have Peterson...the Bills, the Packers and the Giants...there's where the real deal comes into play in my mind. At worse...we keep Peterson...that isn't a bad thing considering Ricky is at his end, at 30 you don't have much left and can you depend on him? At best we trade him to one of those three teams...for picks...that could help the teams future.

Added note....you could take this to a different player...Calvin Johnson for Peterson would be a far better trade in my opinion....if you want to stick with the Cleveland deal.

Fingers
04-17-2007, 11:58 AM
Quin sux
Funny! I was waiting for someone to go off on you.

CK,

Well thought out. However, how does Savage get over his owner's objection. If in fact Cleveland's ownership wants a QB, how could Savage sell the trade? Unless of course, they feel they can get a franchise QB in round 2 which is entirely possible but more risky. Comments?

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 12:03 PM
First CK...the assumption is that the Dolphins really want Quinn in the first place....

You're absolutely correct, Pete. That's an assumption I'm making. But, I do feel like we've got a fair amount of evidence pointing to our wanting Brady Quinn pretty badly. Still, you're right...it's an assumption on my part.

CpuFan
04-17-2007, 12:07 PM
Far fetched to say the least. Chances are that the Quinn won't be a Fin, due to the fact that Randy Mueller has REPEATEDLY stated that QUANTITY over QUALITY will be the Fins matra this year.

fishypete
04-17-2007, 12:11 PM
Far fetched to say the least. Chances are that the Quinn won't be a Fin, due to the fact that Randy Mueller has REPEATEDLY stated that QUANTITY over QUALITY will be the Fins matra this year.

Sometimes you have to take everything that Mueller says with a grain of sand....they do lie...you know.

If I was the GM...there's only one player that I would trade up for...and it isn't Russell or Quinn.

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 12:16 PM
Yeah, their beta is lowered with Peterson in the mix, I agree. The obvious downside to the '08 #1 scenario is that Quinn doesn't pan out and we suck next year, missing out on a great player. Who's coming out next year at QB, Brohm? I'd rather have Quinn. Like I said, this is contingent on a complete conviction on Mueller/Cameron's part as per Quinn. If he's their guy and blows away this year's second tier QB's, then I say just do it. This monkey business at QB has to stop. Time to make a stand and live with the consequences.

Brohm would be a QB to target in 2008, correct. But, the main guy you have to target would be Colt Brennan. There's an outside outside chance that another Colt could come out too, that being Colt McCoy...but most Texas guys stay at Texas and graduate.

Colt Brennan would be a guy that I'd want to get my hands on as much or more than Brady Quinn. You really have to set aside the stigma associated with the June Jones offense w/ regard to Brennan. Just as an exercise, go to that Sports Illustrated website and try watching some tape on Samson Satele...or if they have Dane Uperesa. The guy that always jumps off the page at you is Colt Brennan.

He had the single greatest season any college passer has *ever* had in D1-A football. He's extremely competitive, too...works very hard. Had tears in his eyes when he decided to come back to Hawai'i another year because he felt he owed it to them after giving him a shot coming off his Colorado disaster. There are a lot of college football coaches out there that regard him as better than Brady Quinn, including Joe Tiller of Purdue (believe he said "that's the best quarterback I've *ever* seen" after their game).

As for the Colorado incident, what evidently happened is he got drunk one night and made a big mistake with a woman. He was in her dorm room and I guess she was turning down his advances so he got belligerant and he blocked the door, wouldn't let her leave. No sexual assault actually took place, supposedly, but fresh off the whole Colorado woman kicker thing where she claimed she was raped by players and then the coach had made some stupid remarks to the press (and to her) and got himself fired, the school couldn't chance further scandal...kicked him out. June Jones took a look at him, saw he was being recruited by some other schools, and said that if you don't have the guts to walk on at Hawai'i, then you're not the man I thought you were. So of course, he walks on at Hawai'i and even after having the best statistical passing season any D1-A quarterback has ever had, he decided to stay because he felt he owed them.

At first I was skeptical because of the June Jones attack but if you really look at it, his quality of passing marks (accuracy %, yards per attempt, yards per completion) are off the charts for the June Jones system compared to previous guys that had good stats in the June Jones system but were not destined for NFL greatness.

Anyway I didn't mean to go off on that big a Brennan tangent. We may have an opportunity to take care of the QB position right here, right now, with Brady Quinn...and I think we should take that opportunity too.

BTW, am I to interpret your beta remark to mean that you too are an equity analyst of some sort?

Regan21286
04-17-2007, 12:18 PM
That would be a pretty gutsy move. If the Browns don't want to be tugged on a leash, they could balk and I don't think they'd be in a bad situation if they did. And if we can't find another fair trade partner, we'd have spent a high draft pick on a player we won't necessarily need. That scenario would be a real gut check for Mueller and Co.

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 12:19 PM
Funny! I was waiting for someone to go off on you.

CK,

Well thought out. However, how does Savage get over his owner's objection. If in fact Cleveland's ownership wants a QB, how could Savage sell the trade? Unless of course, they feel they can get a franchise QB in round 2 which is entirely possible but more risky. Comments?

That would probably be the argument Savage would use...that they could use the #35 or #40 pick on Kevin Kolb, Trent Edwards or Drew Stanton. Rumors have the Browns coveting Kolb as the #3 quarterback in the draft, just like Miami.

The offense would be better just by virtue of Adrian Peterson's presence.

This is likely an argument that Savage has already been having with Lerner over the #3 pick...and so I'm just saying, getting the #40 pick in addition might tip the scales for Lerner.

Wolf13
04-17-2007, 12:26 PM
Even that Quantity over Quality could have been a HUGE smokescreen from Day one of his GMship

Here's hoping we get quinn, otherwise I'm all for Staley/Kolb/Doug Free with picks 1/2a/2b

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 12:32 PM
Wow, Staley and Doug Free. I'd be quite happy with that! But it could be a little embarrassing if/when Free ends up better than Staley, lol. Still, talk about some options. Vernon Carey would be a very tradeable commodity within a year or so.

Wolf13
04-17-2007, 12:46 PM
Either way we finally (heaven forbid) get some quality depth on the line to protect our QB and pave the way for our backs...

All I know is that the 28th cann't come soon enough

NorFlaFin
04-17-2007, 12:54 PM
Vernon Carey would be a very tradeable commodity within a year or so.?

Dolphan5876
04-17-2007, 12:55 PM
Brohm would be a QB to target in 2008, correct. But, the main guy you have to target would be Colt Brennan. There's an outside outside chance that another Colt could come out too, that being Colt McCoy...but most Texas guys stay at Texas and graduate.

Colt Brennan would be a guy that I'd want to get my hands on as much or more than Brady Quinn. You really have to set aside the stigma associated with the June Jones offense w/ regard to Brennan. Just as an exercise, go to that Sports Illustrated website and try watching some tape on Samson Satele...or if they have Dane Uperesa. The guy that always jumps off the page at you is Colt Brennan.

He had the single greatest season any college passer has *ever* had in D1-A football. He's extremely competitive, too...works very hard. Had tears in his eyes when he decided to come back to Hawai'i another year because he felt he owed it to them after giving him a shot coming off his Colorado disaster. There are a lot of college football coaches out there that regard him as better than Brady Quinn, including Joe Tiller of Purdue (believe he said "that's the best quarterback I've *ever* seen" after their game).

As for the Colorado incident, what evidently happened is he got drunk one night and made a big mistake with a woman. He was in her dorm room and I guess she was turning down his advances so he got belligerant and he blocked the door, wouldn't let her leave. No sexual assault actually took place, supposedly, but fresh off the whole Colorado woman kicker thing where she claimed she was raped by players and then the coach had made some stupid remarks to the press (and to her) and got himself fired, the school couldn't chance further scandal...kicked him out. June Jones took a look at him, saw he was being recruited by some other schools, and said that if you don't have the guts to walk on at Hawai'i, then you're not the man I thought you were. So of course, he walks on at Hawai'i and even after having the best statistical passing season any D1-A quarterback has ever had, he decided to stay because he felt he owed them.

At first I was skeptical because of the June Jones attack but if you really look at it, his quality of passing marks (accuracy %, yards per attempt, yards per completion) are off the charts for the June Jones system compared to previous guys that had good stats in the June Jones system but were not destined for NFL greatness.

Anyway I didn't mean to go off on that big a Brennan tangent. We may have an opportunity to take care of the QB position right here, right now, with Brady Quinn...and I think we should take that opportunity too.

BTW, am I to interpret your beta remark to mean that you too are an equity analyst of some sort?

:yeahthat: Brennan is the guy!! You better hope no one else from the AFC East gets him. The guy was nothing short of amazing last year and like Brady Quinn, he is being coached by Pros

Fingers
04-17-2007, 01:59 PM
That would probably be the argument Savage would use...that they could use the #35 or #40 pick on Kevin Kolb, Trent Edwards or Drew Stanton. Rumors have the Browns coveting Kolb as the #3 quarterback in the draft, just like Miami.

The offense would be better just by virtue of Adrian Peterson's presence.

This is likely an argument that Savage has already been having with Lerner over the #3 pick...and so I'm just saying, getting the #40 pick in addition might tip the scales for Lerner.
I too believe that Savage/Crennel are looking for an impact player for next year. Anything beyond next season may be moot if they don't win more games. As such, I am inclined to think that if Quinn is chosen at #3, ownership would have to give the current staff some time to develop Quinn and the team around him. However, as you know, regardless of what is said, there is very little patience on the part of NFL owners.

By the way, assuming Quinn and Peterson are gone by #9, who do you think Miami drafts? I personally believe it will come down to one of the following: Landry, Carriker, Staley or Willis.

Regina Phin
04-17-2007, 02:01 PM
That has to be one of the most convoluded and complicated scenarios that I have ever seen someone dream up prior to the draft - good work CK!

I don't really think that this has any chance of happening, but I think that the amount of leg work that it would take Mueller to prepare and set up something like this is pretty limited. If he's serious (and probably even if he's not) about Quinn, he should be contacting everyone who will listen about moving up, and that includes Cleveland. By giving them the #40 and Peterson, they could pretty much guarantee themselves that they get the 3rd QB in the second round and still get to keep their draft the same as it otherwise would have been.

I like it, I just think that there's a better chance that I get hit with a russian satellite.

umpalu
04-17-2007, 02:03 PM
i say we just stay and take peterson. that would give us brown, williams, and peterson. that is pretty good depth and we can start a new trend. while everyone is moving to a 2 back system we will be moving even further into the future with a 3 back system. :ninja:

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 02:05 PM
That has to be one of the most convoluded and complicated scenarios that I have ever seen someone dream up prior to the draft - good work CK!

I don't really think that this has any chance of happening, but I think that the amount of leg work that it would take Mueller to prepare and set up something like this is pretty limited. If he's serious (and probably even if he's not) about Quinn, he should be contacting everyone who will listen about moving up, and that includes Cleveland. By giving them the #40 and Peterson, they could pretty much guarantee themselves that they get the 3rd QB in the second round and still get to keep their draft the same as it otherwise would have been.

I like it, I just think that there's a better chance that I get hit with a russian satellite.

Most thoroughly explained, but I don't like the word convoluted being attached to it as I don't think any one of the pre-conditions for the event are a terribly big stretch of the imagination.

If I didn't care to explain it deeply, I would just say that if the Browns take Quinn and Peterson falls to #9 Miami should ring up the Browns and see if they want to re-think their decision at a cheaper price now that Miami has Peterson in their pocket.

But, I never stop there...I always explain.

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 02:08 PM
By the way, assuming Quinn and Peterson are gone by #9, who do you think Miami drafts? I personally believe it will come down to one of the following: Landry, Carriker, Staley or Willis.

Joe Staley, Ted Ginn Jr., Adam Carriker, or Amobi Okoye.

If we trade down, it would be Ginn Jr., Staley, or Greg Olsen.

Mexican Dolphin
04-17-2007, 02:11 PM
Quin sux

huh? :err:

This post not sound like a boomer-post...what u mean boomer?

Fingers
04-17-2007, 02:15 PM
Joe Staley, Ted Ginn Jr., Adam Carriker, or Amobi Okoye.

If we trade down, it would be Ginn Jr., Staley, or Greg Olsen.

I can see how Ginn, Staley, Olsen and Carriker fit in. However, do you think Okoye is a 3-4 tackle? He seems to fit better in Tampa 2 defense. Unless of course Miami is thinking he could play end.

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 02:20 PM
As for Quinn, this is a good article...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6691622

Takes a real close look at the teams showing the most interest. Schein makes a good case for why the Vikings will NOT take Brady Quinn. I had even forgotten that they traded up in the draft to get Tarvaris Jackson in the 2nd round. They won't be taking Quinn.

And the Lions, they're not really interested...neither are the Raiders, IMO. It comes down to Cleveland and Miami. Will Savage and Crennel go for Peterson or go for Quinn. That's the question. Lerner wants a QB, Savage and Crennel want to win in 2007. Crennel has the close relationship with Weis.

Most would be uncomfortable with Quinn a little if Crennel and Savage decide to pass on Quinn...because of that Weis relationship. They'll try and say that Weis was honest with Romeo, and gave him the REAL skinny on Brady Quinn. That's hogwash though, if it were to play out like that. There are only two players in this draft from a talent perspective that I would pass on Brady Quinn for, and Adrian Peterson is one of them (if we didn't have Ronnie and Ricky, that is). So if the Browns pass on Quinn, kudos to them. They have serious need at that position and Adrian Peterson is the Julius Peppers of this draft.

But if that happens...gosh...I think Quinn could go all the way to #9.

ckparrothead
04-17-2007, 02:24 PM
I can see how Ginn, Staley, Olsen and Carriker fit in. However, do you think Okoye is a 3-4 tackle? He seems to fit better in Tampa 2 defense. Unless of course Miami is thinking he could play end.

Okoye would be the natural successor to Vonnie Holliday's spot, which plays a lot more one-gap than two-gap.

While I'm not a huge proponent of turning him into an elite prospect because of his age, one thing his age does do is provide a level of versatility...because you can probably mold him into whichever you really need, no matter what kind of system you run.

The one thing I would NOT do, is project him to nose. Waste of talent.

LarryFinFan
04-17-2007, 02:30 PM
In Mule's PC, he said that they would be looking at all the mocks and draft scenarios so as not to be caught by surprise. While a scenario like this is complicated due to having to do some leg work in advance of the draft, it's a possibility...slim, but possible.

CK, you should contact ohiobryan...he claims to have called the Fins office about some other subject, (I actually forget why), but he may be able to give you the contact...Cam-Mul just might be interested....LOLOLOL

Seriously, it's quite a scenario...something that has never been associated with the Fins on draft day, particularly in the last 8 yrs...

Regan21286
04-17-2007, 07:09 PM
As for Quinn, this is a good article...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6691622

Takes a real close look at the teams showing the most interest. Schein makes a good case for why the Vikings will NOT take Brady Quinn. I had even forgotten that they traded up in the draft to get Tarvaris Jackson in the 2nd round. They won't be taking Quinn.

And the Lions, they're not really interested...neither are the Raiders, IMO. It comes down to Cleveland and Miami. Will Savage and Crennel go for Peterson or go for Quinn. That's the question. Lerner wants a QB, Savage and Crennel want to win in 2007. Crennel has the close relationship with Weis.

Most would be uncomfortable with Quinn a little if Crennel and Savage decide to pass on Quinn...because of that Weis relationship. They'll try and say that Weis was honest with Romeo, and gave him the REAL skinny on Brady Quinn. That's hogwash though, if it were to play out like that. There are only two players in this draft from a talent perspective that I would pass on Brady Quinn for, and Adrian Peterson is one of them (if we didn't have Ronnie and Ricky, that is). So if the Browns pass on Quinn, kudos to them. They have serious need at that position and Adrian Peterson is the Julius Peppers of this draft.

But if that happens...gosh...I think Quinn could go all the way to #9.

True, but those are presuming the GM's for those teams are rational thinkers. One of the few things I remember from econ classes is that the difficulty with making economic predictions is that people aren't always rational thinkers. Same is true for even people in the FO's...coughrickspielmancough. That's why you can't really say for sure that Detroit or Minnesota won't draft Quinn. And guess who's the VP of player personnel for Minnesota...

Boomer
04-17-2007, 07:36 PM
BOOM would you care to elaborate on your comment?

It was a joke, dude.

Back to Colt Brennan for a second......that was a disappointing day when he decided to stay at Hawaii. He would have absolutely been front and centre for pick 9. This is a kid who can play football.

PhinSoldia
04-17-2007, 07:53 PM
i say we just stay and take peterson. that would give us brown, williams, and peterson. that is pretty good depth and we can start a new trend. while everyone is moving to a 2 back system we will be moving even further into the future with a 3 back system. :ninja:

your given a RB already a 50 millions dollar contract and then you want to get ricky back and then sign Adrian Peterson for about another 20 million...or so-look im not a numbers guy but you want our cap to be tied in RB's for the next 10 years? thats crazy

PhinSoldia
04-17-2007, 08:05 PM
As for Quinn, this is a good article...

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6691622

Takes a real close look at the teams showing the most interest. Schein makes a good case for why the Vikings will NOT take Brady Quinn. I had even forgotten that they traded up in the draft to get Tarvaris Jackson in the 2nd round. They won't be taking Quinn.

And the Lions, they're not really interested...neither are the Raiders, IMO. It comes down to Cleveland and Miami. Will Savage and Crennel go for Peterson or go for Quinn. That's the question. Lerner wants a QB, Savage and Crennel want to win in 2007. Crennel has the close relationship with Weis.

Most would be uncomfortable with Quinn a little if Crennel and Savage decide to pass on Quinn...because of that Weis relationship. They'll try and say that Weis was honest with Romeo, and gave him the REAL skinny on Brady Quinn. That's hogwash though, if it were to play out like that. There are only two players in this draft from a talent perspective that I would pass on Brady Quinn for, and Adrian Peterson is one of them (if we didn't have Ronnie and Ricky, that is). So if the Browns pass on Quinn, kudos to them. They have serious need at that position and Adrian Peterson is the Julius Peppers of this draft.

But if that happens...gosh...I think Quinn could go all the way to #9.

i didnt know that...wow. and im no expert...yet. But honestly i feel that Adrian peterson will give Charlie Fry an opportunity to shine and open that offense up a bit- i dont really think they to change from Charlie yet-but hey if we dont have the oppertunity to get him we can get edwards or stanton with the second-

umpalu
04-18-2007, 12:48 AM
your given a RB already a 50 millions dollar contract and then you want to get ricky back and then sign Adrian Peterson for about another 20 million...or so-look im not a numbers guy but you want our cap to be tied in RB's for the next 10 years? thats crazy

It was a joke brother. We would have at least 2 teams jumping on us (Bills, GB) for a trade to get him because there would be a very good chance at that point that texans would take him after us if he was still there. Would be no need to pass on him for someone else because we could trade out.

Ludacris
04-18-2007, 05:38 AM
Even if Savage knows that the risk premium has been eliminated he still has the biggest leverage of knowing that he has a QB he likes and whom the Fins covert. He will know the demand is there and the Fins will have to pay up or settle for whoever is available at #9. A #40, i believe would not suffice.

In the 2004 Eli Manning/Rivers trade the Chargers received a 2005 1st (which became the 2005 #12 overall) and 5th round pick and a 2004 3rd round pick to move down from #1 to #4 overall. The Chargers received more value than the Trade Chart indicates despite the risk premium being removed. The Browns and Fins would then have to stick with the Value Chart too.

I don't think giving up a #40 to move up from #9 to #3 as a high priced to pay. That's a bargain. I'll do it in a heart beat.