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View Full Version : DET MAY have already moved out of #2



BillsFanInPeace
04-18-2007, 12:20 PM
POSTED 11:44 a.m. EDT, April 18, 2007
BUCS-LIONS WORKING ON A DEAL
Our friends at WDAE in Tampa have tipped us off to a rumor that we're in the process of confirming that the Lions have traded the No. 2 overall pick in the 2007 draft to the Buccaneers for the No. 4 overall pick and defensive end Simeon Rice.
A league source tells us that, while there is not a done deal, the talks are occurring regarding a flip-flop of No. 2 and No. 4. It's not presently clear whether Rice is part of the deal.
The Bucs presumably want to get in position to take receiver Calvin Johnson with the No. 2 selection, if the Raiders don't take Johnson with the No. 1.
The real intrigue on this one arises if the Raiders take Johnson. Would the Bucs then pick quarterback JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn? Or would they take left tackle Joe Thomas?
Recently, the Bucs conducted on-campus workouts with Johnson, Russell, and Quinn. They didn't include Thomas in the tour, and we've seen some evidence in the Tampa press of possible efforts by the team to bad-mouth Thomas, possibly in the hopes that he'll be available at No. 4.
It could be that the Lions are willing to make the deal to go down to No. 4 because they think they could still get Thomas at that spot. But if Johnson is the No. 1 pick, Thomas might be long gone by the time the Lions use the pick currently held by Tampa.
We're keeping a close eye on this one. Check back for more details.

fishypete
04-18-2007, 12:23 PM
They would be stupid to trade now before the Raiders select their player.

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-18-2007, 12:23 PM
Tampa will take Quinn if Johnson is taken by the Raiders..

fishypete
04-18-2007, 12:26 PM
Tampa will take Quinn if Johnson is taken by the Raiders..

They don't need another QB...and they signed O-line...so what do they do with the 2nd pick....eat it?

That leaves them with either Gaines or Peterson with the second pick....players they could have had at 4.

washire
04-18-2007, 12:27 PM
Yeah like T.B. needs another QB in camp

MastR_EvaluatoR
04-18-2007, 12:28 PM
Yes they do. They need a young QB .. Come on, Garcia and Simms ?? There is a reason the Bucs had the 4th worst record in the league.. Their QB play was horrific .. And the BUCS have scouted Quinn one too many times for them not to be looking to upgrade at the QB position ..

Vertical Limit
04-18-2007, 12:28 PM
They don't need another QB...and they signed O-line...so what do they do with the 2nd pick....eat it?

That leaves them with either Gaines or Peterson with the second pick....players they could have had at 4.
*cough*Cadillac Williams*cough*

fishypete
04-18-2007, 12:30 PM
*cough*Cadillac Williams*cough*

You should have that cough checked out...:sidelol:

Like I wrote....chances are they could have stayed at 4 and still selected Peterson. I hope Davis screws them if they trade before the draft.

nyital571
04-18-2007, 12:31 PM
If they are trading up like that it's to get Johnson

BillsFanInPeace
04-18-2007, 12:33 PM
Yeah they are making this move for Johnson, but to do it now before the Raiders pick is ludacris unless they have another player in mind as a BU. Which in my opinion could only be Quinn

Paul 13
04-18-2007, 12:33 PM
makes no sense to finalize the trade now... although it's quite possible they have an agreement that the trade will happen IF Johnson is available at 2. TB isn't moving up for any other player but CJ.

Vertical Limit
04-18-2007, 12:36 PM
You should have that cough checked out...:sidelol:

Like I wrote....chances are they could have stayed at 4 and still selected Peterson. I hope Davis screws them if they trade before the draft.
Explain to me how drafting another running back when they already have a good young one in Cadillac would make any sense for Tampa Bay?

fishypete
04-18-2007, 12:36 PM
Yes they do. They need a young QB .. Come on, Garcia and Simms ?? There is a reason the Bucs had the 4th worst record in the league.. Their QB play was horrific .. And the BUCS have scouted Quinn one too many times for them not to be looking to upgrade at the QB position ..

Yea...Simms almost died....thats the reason.

Rhody Phins Fan
04-18-2007, 12:38 PM
They were probably going to get rid of Simeon Rice anyways so they get to move up without giving up any draft picks which means it will cost less to move up to the Raiders pick if they need to do so. It would be like if we traded Culpepper and the 9th pick to Minnesota for the 7th pick. We would move up without actually losing anything valuable since we'll most likely release Daunte

fishypete
04-18-2007, 12:39 PM
Explain to me how drafting another running back when they already have a good young one in Cadillac would make any sense for Tampa Bay?


Does this work?

Rumors are circulating around the league that Bucs HB Carnell "Cadillac" Williams is on the trading block and could be moved on Draft day...Bucs Coach Jon Gruden has been talking up Adrian Peterson which most observers believe is just a smokescreen to draw interest to the Bucs pick for a team that has Peterson high on their Draft want list...however...Peterson could wind up being a surprise pick for the Bucs if they fail in their attempt to move up in the Draft for WR Calvin Johnson.... their have been whispers that the Bucs organization has been dissapointed in the return they've received for the former 5th overall pick in the 2005 Draft and would consider moving him for the right price

BillsFanInPeace
04-18-2007, 12:40 PM
They were probably going to get rid of Simeon Rice anyways so they get to move up without giving up any draft picks which means it will cost less to move up to the Raiders pick if they need to do so. It would be like if we traded Culpepper and the 9th pick to Minnesota for the 7th pick. We would move up without actually losing anything valuable since we'll most likely release Daunte
Very nice point

finfan54
04-18-2007, 12:41 PM
Yeah they are making this move for Johnson, but to do it now before the Raiders pick is ludacris unless they have another player in mind as a BU. Which in my opinion could only be Quinn



actually, and not saying it couldnt be Quinn, but Peterson does make some sense and here is why:

I believe it was (and I could be wrong on this) Chucky who said something about having two good RB's in this league and how it is the trend now.

We all know its for CJ, but Peterson could be the BU plan as well.

fishypete
04-18-2007, 12:42 PM
04/17...The latest trade rumors have the Tampa Bay Bucs offering their entire first day of the Draft to the Raiders for the rights to the first pick in the Draft...the Bucs and Lions have been talking for weeks about switching picks, but the Bucs won't make a pre-draft deal with the Lions until they are sure that the player they're targeting (Calvin Johnson) is available to them at #2...by trading with the Raiders, the Bucs would assure themselves of landing Johnson hook, line and sinker.

Notice the date....this was yesterdays news.

Minnphin
04-18-2007, 12:44 PM
This is bad for anyone who wanted the phins to get Quinn (me, for example) for the following reasons.

1. I don't think this move was done to get Calvin Johnson because if the Raiders don't take him at #1 he'd be there at 4, unless somebody else was close to trading into the top 3.

2. I doubt they trade up to get Peterson. Even if they like him, I can't see them making an effort to move up when they only use former #5 pick Caddy Williams about 15 plays per game and there'd be a good chance of Peterson falling anyway.

3. This makes me think they're getting up for one of the QB's. Even if they're not, and they are in fact trying to get up for Joe Thomas, that leaves one QB gone with the Lions sitting at number 4 and Joe Thomas off the board. I could see them looking at Gaines Adams, but that would seem unlikely if they're trading for Simeon Rice.

If the Raiders take Russel #1, then this is all moot I guess because I think its a pretty safe bet that the Bucs take Johnson at #2. If not, its time to get on the horn with Cleveland, Detroit (at 4), Arizona, and Washington to get up and select Johnson for ourselves.

СЯΘΜ
04-18-2007, 12:54 PM
As wacky as Al Davis is I could see him drafting Calvin Johnson just because Gruden wants him. The Raiders could be on the fence between Russell and CJ, If the Bucs do tradeup I think CJ is the 1st pick.

FinAtic8480
04-18-2007, 12:55 PM
Our it could end up looking like this:

Quinn,Johnson,Russell,Peterson or Thomas or Adams

Another scenario:
Russell,Johnson,Quinn,Peterson or Thomas or Adams

Good Scenario:
Johnson,Peterson or Thomas,Russell,Quinn or Adams

Great Scenarion:
Johnson,Thomas,Russell,Peterson

NYinBostonFin
04-18-2007, 01:04 PM
The Bucs are not trading up to get a QB. Gruden wants CJ.

They will give Simms another shot, he lost his spleen last year for the team for crying out loud.

Fingers
04-18-2007, 01:04 PM
makes no sense to finalize the trade now... although it's quite possible they have an agreement that the trade will happen IF Johnson is available at 2. TB isn't moving up for any other player but CJ.

You only make this trade now if you have an agreement in place with the Raiders to move up to one which requires giving up the 2nd pick. Otherwise, Gruden must like some player other than Johnson which would not be available at number 4.

My guess is there is a deal in place with the Raiders. If so, pencil in Johnson at number one and Al Davis' QB pick, most likely Russell, at number 2.

miamitd13
04-18-2007, 01:13 PM
Not to sidetrack this but I'm just curious. Do you think these types of "rumors" get to Randy Mueller. I wonder if the GM's network in a way that they all know what is happening prior to something like this materializing/happening.

CpuFan
04-18-2007, 01:28 PM
Well I went fishing on the Detroit and Tampa fans sites. And the Detroit fans haven't even heard about it yet, (clueless as usual), and the Tampa fans think it is bogus and are in disbelief, most wouldn't like it.

JFoxx
04-18-2007, 01:43 PM
Boy, aren't all these pre-draft rumors really exciting?!!?! It's always fun to think about what might happen, etc., etc. but 99% of these things are all bunk!!! Misinformation put out by teams to try and throw off other teams from what they really might be doing. IF there was some type of real trade going on, do you really think they'd let it leak and tip off Oak and other teams as to what they might be doing ? Come on, it would be the tightest lipped secret around. It also would be a contengent offer on draft day and if the right person is drafted @ #1 (assuming they are zero'd in on one person). Everyone can go ahead and wait for all these high profile trades, swaps, etc. to occur in the first, but I'd be shocked if there was more than one and it being a matter of one/two positions towards the middle or late round 1.

maverick50
04-18-2007, 01:48 PM
and meanwhile back in dolphin nation this dolphin fans is wondering which unimpressive cat we are going to draft. i hope he isnt another jason allen.
this dolphin fan insists on getting a.d peterson and then use a three headed monster. why three rbs ? i guess i miss the triplets from the 70's i want firepower . ok maybe that was over the top but in a less dramatic fashion i would not be opposed to trading down with pittsburgh and picking up a extra 2nd and 4 th rd draft pick and then we could get ot marshal yanda , c lyle sendlein and then get qb kolb and wr craig davis and ot hilliard and then get te ben patrick or olb quintin black.

Mike13
04-18-2007, 01:59 PM
2nd and 4 th rd pick

huh, what is th rd?

No offense but your spelling blows.

nick1
04-18-2007, 02:20 PM
where is this located? is it a blog by someone?

BillsFanInPeace
04-18-2007, 02:23 PM
where is this located? is it a blog by someone?
My Bad it is on PFT,

nick1
04-18-2007, 02:24 PM
My Bad it is on PFT,

thanks, it is very interesting

PhinfanUK
04-18-2007, 02:28 PM
This is bad for us. Pat Kirwan reports that if the Bucs miss out on Johnson they will take Quinn.

matty3054
04-18-2007, 02:32 PM
ProFootballTalk is reporting this:



Our friends at WDAE in Tampa have tipped us off to a rumor that we're in the process of confirming that the Lions have traded the No. 2 overall pick in the 2007 draft to the Buccaneers for the No. 4 overall pick and defensive end Simeon Rice.

A league source tells us that, while there is not a done deal, the talks are occurring regarding a flip-flop of No. 2 and No. 4. It's not presently clear whether Rice is part of the deal.


Why could this affect the Dolphins? Well, Brady Quinn, of course (http://www.thephinsider.com)!!

trate121hb
04-18-2007, 02:36 PM
already reported...too late

tyson22
04-18-2007, 02:37 PM
definately not breaking news... there is already a thread in the draft forum started 3 hrs ago.

SpurzN703
04-18-2007, 02:38 PM
Why get stoked about a rumor?

newlownorder
04-18-2007, 02:38 PM
If Rice isn't involved with the trade the Lions might be targeting Gaines Adams at #4. Todd McShay of espn.com has already hinted that the Lions favored Adams anyways. Trading out and still getting their guy is a smart move. As for TB trading up to the #2 spot, it's been reported that Al Davis wants Russell while Kiffen wants CJ. We all know or at least you should know that Davis would win that decision.
It would be interesting to see what the Browns do with their pick if that trade happens and Oakland takes Russell and TB take CJ. Do the browns take Peterson or Quinn or even Thomas. I think it would come down to Peterson or Quinn but again it's been reported that the Browns have zero'd in on Quinn.

Vertical Limit
04-18-2007, 02:38 PM
I'm bored. Someone tell me something new. shakeno:

finfan54
04-18-2007, 02:42 PM
If Quinn is gone and Landry is gone, please draft Levi Brown, then we can get Kalil or a G/T at 40 amd Kolb at 60 and walla, we have an offensive line on the way.

phinfan37
04-18-2007, 02:43 PM
I'm bored. Someone tell me something new. shakeno:

Burger King has whoppers for $1 :D

Mr772
04-18-2007, 03:54 PM
Yes they do. They need a young QB .. Come on, Garcia and Simms ?? There is a reason the Bucs had the 4th worst record in the league.. Their QB play was horrific .. And the BUCS have scouted Quinn one too many times for them not to be looking to upgrade at the QB position ..

Sims was out most of the year last year, when healthy he looked like a very good qb. Garcia is an insurance policy for sims and Gradkowski looks like he will be a good qb in a couple years.

BillsFanInPeace
04-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Well that was a short lived rumor now it is reported Dead


POSTED 4:42 p.m. EDT, April 18, 2007
BUCS-LIONS DEAL DEAD, FOR NOW
A source with knowledge of the situation tells us that the trade talks between the Lions and Buccaneers for a flip-flop of the No. 2 overall pick and the No. 4 overall pick are dead. For now.
But the source says that the Lions also are talking to the Redskins and Falcons about a possible trade of first-round, top-ten picks. And the Cardinals (we're told) contacted the Lions for the first time on Wednesday to discuss the spot.
The Redskins hold the No. 6 pick, the Falcons hold the No. 8 pick, and the Cardinals hold the No. 5 pick.
The source also says that the Lions are confused by the Redskins' interest in moving up, since Washington doesn't have many other 2007 picks to offer. In addition to the sixth overall selection, the 'Skins have a fifth-round pick, two sixth-round picks, and a seventh-round selection.
We're also told that the Lions prefer to make the trade before the draft. We recently heard that if no trade is accomplished before noon on April 28 and if receiver Calvin Johnson is available at No. 2, the Lions would select him and then trade his rights to the highest bidder. Apparently, the Lions have figured out that actually drafting Johnson and then sending him to someone else would open the organization up to plenty of criticism if Johnson becomes a superstar (especially in light of the team's past misadventures with top-ten receivers). It would be far better to get out of the No. 2 spot before the picks start to fly.

ChambersWI
04-18-2007, 05:07 PM
I would not expect any deal to get done anyways. Everything right now points to the Raiders drafting Calvin Johnson unless they can complete a trade with Detroit for Josh McCown (if the trade happened, they would take Russell).

Really, the whole point of the trade would be the Bucs want CJ and the Lions want Adams, but don't want him at 2. Since it's seems Rice might not be part of the deal, that seems likely.

Not suprised Atlanta is trying to move up, Arthur Blank is in love with CJ.

If the Bucs don't get CJ, they'll probably take Okoye. Gruden loves him, and they need DTs (though they could go Adams as well)

Frayser
04-18-2007, 06:44 PM
I think the back and forth rumors are going to continue right up until draft day. For those of you wondering why Tampa would trade up in the first place, consider the second rumor about the deal being dead. Detroit leaked that they are talking with other teams. The Falcons don't surprise me . . . as I'm sure they would have some, albeit limited, interest in jumping up and keeping the hometown Johnson in Atlanta for Vick to throw to. I think the rest is just smokescreen to sweeten the eventual deal with Tampa Bay. I mean . . . seriously . . . what does Washington even have with which to trade up? I think their next pick after the first round is a third rounder in 2011.

I have also heard the "Gruden likes Peterson" rumors multiple times now and have also heard (once) that Carnell is on the block. It's hard to judge what is truth and what is intentional deception, but I tend to believe these rumors.

Ultimately, I think this hardly effects our chances of landing Quinn. Right now, the thing that mosts worries me is a team like the Patriots jumping into Washington's spot to take Landry. If Landry and Peterson are off the board when the Vikings pick, I don't see how they pass on Quinn.

PhinfanUK
04-18-2007, 06:59 PM
They would be dumb to trade before the draft anyway, if Calvin gets taken by the Raiders at #1 it would have been a waste of resources.

Finfanforever
04-18-2007, 07:09 PM
This rumor about Gruden no longer in love with his "Cadillac" is a bunch of CRAP! I live in Tampa and am very intune with Bucs rumors. No, I do not have any "inside" info and I'm not claiming to. However....Gruden DOES REALIZE he can't drive his Caddy more than 15-20 attempts a game TOPS. The NFL is quickly evolving into a "two-feature-back" leaque. Gruden LOVES Peterson...he said he is the best back "he's ever seen come out of college". The last time ol' Chucky fell in love with a player...he drafted him...Carnell Williams. The Bucs clearly has CJ as their #1 target. I expect them to try to move into the Lions's spot to take him when and only when "the Lions are on the clock". If the Raiders take CJ, the Bucs will sit tight at #4 and take Peterson or Thomas which ever falls. By the way...the BUCS's O-Line SUCKS! It's even worse off than the Fins's. They would be VERY satisfied with taking Thomas...believe me. I don't think they'll take Quinn either...but they may us him as bait to trade down....stay tuned!

Agent51
04-18-2007, 07:32 PM
They would be stupid to trade now before the Raiders select their player.

Exactly. If I were them I would work out the deal to make sure everyone is on the same page and then tell Detroit that if the Raiders select anyone but Calvin Johnson the deal is done. I would never make this deal BEFORE the Raiders pick, because if Johnson is gone they are stuck losing picks in a trade and taking a player at #2 that they could have at #4. The Lions obviously know they want to trade up for Johnson, so telling them it depends on if Oakland takes him or not idoesn't really matter, as it's no secret.

Frayser
04-18-2007, 07:36 PM
Exactly. If I were them I would work out the deal to make sure everyone is on the same page and then tell Detroit that if the Raiders select anyone but Calvin Johnson the deal is done. I would never make this deal BEFORE the Raiders pick, because if Johnson is gone they are stuck losing picks in a trade and taking a player at #2 that they could have at #4. The Lions obviously know they want to trade up for Johnson, so telling them it depends on if Oakland takes him or not idoesn't really matter, as it's no secret.

While I agree with your underlying logic, if Peterson is #2 on their board then it doesn't necessarily apply. Cleveland will likely take him at 3 . . . so jumping ahead of them in order to wait on Johnson and take Peterson if he's gone is not necessarily a terrible move.

But yes, in general, teams like to know what they are getting before they trade up to a Top 3 pick.

Jaj
04-18-2007, 07:39 PM
I think it is a done deal. One bridge has been built for Tampa, Rice and a pick probably to get to the second overall.

The next move is moving up one last pick utilizing a second rounder to get their man.

1- Johnson to Tampa
2- Quinn to Oakland
3- Russell to Cleveland
4- Adams to Detroit

J Tes
04-18-2007, 08:25 PM
Yes they do. They need a young QB .. Come on, Garcia and Simms ?? There is a reason the Bucs had the 4th worst record in the league.. Their QB play was horrific .. And the BUCS have scouted Quinn one too many times for them not to be looking to upgrade at the QB position ..

They wouldn't take Quinn. Gruden hates young QB's, and he's kinda in a win now or else situation. Plus the have invested a good amount in Garcia and Simms. No way they take Quinn.

ASUFinFan
04-18-2007, 09:24 PM
Does this work?

Rumors are circulating around the league that Bucs HB Carnell "Cadillac" Williams is on the trading block and could be moved on Draft day...Bucs Coach Jon Gruden has been talking up Adrian Peterson which most observers believe is just a smokescreen to draw interest to the Bucs pick for a team that has Peterson high on their Draft want list...however...Peterson could wind up being a surprise pick for the Bucs if they fail in their attempt to move up in the Draft for WR Calvin Johnson.... their have been whispers that the Bucs organization has been dissapointed in the return they've received for the former 5th overall pick in the 2005 Draft and would consider moving him for the right price

Well if that is the case, then Ronnie is about in the same boat. Neither has performed like top 5 picks should, let alone ronnie at 2. That sure is interesting with what the Bucs are doing though. Although, Im not sure that I really buy it. Gruden always says that he loves players.

maverick50
04-18-2007, 11:09 PM
here is a new rumor to chew on. the dolphins trade down to #14 and draft lb patrick willis. and then draft josh beck or kevin kolb in the late 2nd.

CpuFan
04-19-2007, 04:06 AM
here is a new rumor to chew on. the dolphins trade down to #14 and draft lb patrick willis. and then draft josh beck or kevin kolb in the late 2nd.

Thank God that is only a rumor. :)

Springveldt
04-19-2007, 05:07 AM
here is a new rumor to chew on. the dolphins trade down to #14 and draft lb patrick willis. and then draft josh beck or kevin kolb in the late 2nd.
Is that a rumour you just made up? :D

Kdawg954
04-19-2007, 06:00 AM
here is a new rumor to chew on. the dolphins trade down to #14 and draft lb patrick willis. and then draft josh beck or kevin kolb in the late 2nd.

Mannnn I seriously doubt Willis makes it to 14 . . . and we don't need him.

If we were rebuilding and never signed Porter and traded Zach and Jason Taylor, then of course . . . Willis would be a fantastic pick. But I think Randy and Cam wanna win NOW.