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fishypete
04-26-2007, 02:17 AM
What if the Raiders select Calvin Johnson...and Detroit selects Gaines Adams...And Cleveland selects Quinn and Tampa selects Willis or Okoye and the Cards select Thomas....would the Dolphins trade up to Washingtons pick for Russell? It would cost the Dolphins the 60th pick for them to move up...still leaving them with the 40th pick to acquire a OT.

Hmmm?

DolFan31
04-26-2007, 02:45 AM
I thought about that, as the Skins have very few mid round selections(No 2nd 3rd or 5th I believe) and could afford to pick up more picks. But Im not sure Miami is the team itll do it with, because Miami has a lot of needs to fill.

DonShula84
04-26-2007, 03:02 AM
I wouldnt move up for Russell. I also think if Russell and Quinn are both available at 3 the Browns would take Russell.

PeterNorth
04-26-2007, 03:06 AM
I find it hard to believe that Cleveland would go Quinn over Russell if he is there.

Kyndig
04-26-2007, 06:50 AM
What if the Raiders select Calvin Johnson...and Detroit selects Gaines Adams...And Cleveland selects Quinn and Tampa selects Willis or Okoye and the Cards select Thomas....would the Dolphins trade up to Washingtons pick for Russell? It would cost the Dolphins the 60th pick for them to move up...still leaving them with the 40th pick to acquire a OT.

Hmmm?

that's the first thing I thought about when I began to read rumors of the raiders taking cj. Alot of people just seem to assume that the browns would then just take Russell, but, because of the Weiss/Crennel connection what if the browns have Quinn rated higher on their draftboard then Russell? It's possible. Then, the bucs would have to resist temptation to pull the trigger on such a speciman. Which they may not be able to do. I mean, who's to say then that the Bucs don't just then draft the not expected to be available russell with the intention of then turning around and trading one of the other qbs on their roster like Simms perhaps? But, then again, they do have an awful lot of qbs on their roster, so maybe gruden and mckay resist the temptation. This leaves Arizona who has Leinart, so they won't draft Russell, so then all of a sudden next thing you know, Jamarcus Russell is sitting there at number six.

Washington will listen to trade offers, but then again, no one expected this phenom to be there at six, so Washington may just pull the trigger on him even though they already have Jason Campbell on their roster. We would certainly try to trade up for him, and in this scenario IMHO would have a decent chance to get this guy. Of course all this is assuming that Detroit doesn't grab him at 2 after Oakland drafts CJ.

Definitely amusing to speculate about...

Alex44
04-26-2007, 06:52 AM
Russell is NOT a Cam Cameron type QB. So to answer the question: No we would not.

In fact I doubt we take him if he is sitting in our laps at #9. (Though it would be tempting)

Kyndig
04-26-2007, 06:55 AM
Russell is NOT a Cam Cameron type QB. So to answer the question: No we would not.

In fact I doubt we take him if he is sitting in our laps at #9. (Though it would be tempting)

What makes you say that? Everything I've read on the guy suggests that he's the best QB in the draft. Cam's offense, which was handed down from Don Coreyell (sp?) is predicated on a power running game, a timing based passing offense, and throwing it down the field. Nothing I've read suggests that Jamarcus Russell wouldn't be a wonderful prospect to develop in that offense especially with that arm of his. This isn't a running quarterback although he has some size and decent mobility, this guy is a solid pocket passer who seems to read defenses well.

Or at least that's what all of the scouting reports that I have read on this guy have said. I think Cam and Mueller would do cartwheels if they were able to land JRussell at either number 6 or 9 in the draft.

Alex44
04-26-2007, 06:59 AM
What makes you say that? Everything I've read on the guy suggests that he's the best QB in the draft. Cam's offense, which was handed down from Don Coreyell (sp?) is predicated on a power running game, a timing based passing offense, and throwing it down the field. Nothing I've read suggests that Jamarcus Russell wouldn't be a wonderful prospect to develop in that offense especially with that arm of his. This isn't a running quarterback although he has some size and decent mobility, this guy is a solid pocket passer who seems to read defenses well.

Or at least that's what all of the scouting reports that I have read on this guy have said. I think Cam and Mueller would do cartwheels if they were able to land JRussell at either number 6 or 9 in the draft.

Russell is a QB who likes to hold onto the ball for extended periods of time, has poor work ethic from all reports, isn't to great at reading defenses etc.

I've never seen anyone say he was good at reading defenses, not to say you're wrong about that though.

Cam likes guys who spend extra time studying film, make smart decisions, get the ball out quickly and are leaders. Russell just isn't that guy IMO. People are fawning over his physical skills, but as far as between the ears and having a passion for the game I think he lacks what it takes.

Oh and one last reason.

It was reported a little while back that Quinn was the #1 QB on our board, and Kolb was the #3. No-one knew who the #2 guy was. However with all the interest in Beck (more than Kolb it seems) I dont even think Jamarcus is one of our top 3 guys at QB.

Kyndig
04-26-2007, 07:29 AM
Russell is a QB who likes to hold onto the ball for extended periods of time, has poor work ethic from all reports, isn't to great at reading defenses etc.

I've never seen anyone say he was good at reading defenses, not to say you're wrong about that though.

Cam likes guys who spend extra time studying film, make smart decisions, get the ball out quickly and are leaders. Russell just isn't that guy IMO. People are fawning over his physical skills, but as far as between the ears and having a passion for the game I think he lacks what it takes.

Oh and one last reason.

It was reported a little while back that Quinn was the #1 QB on our board, and Kolb was the #3. No-one knew who the #2 guy was. However with all the interest in Beck (more than Kolb it seems) I dont even think Jamarcus is one of our top 3 guys at QB.


Hmm. I got most of my info from scouting reports off of nfl.com, espn.com, foxsports.com, and SI.com most of whom have him as the top rated QB prospect. The only concern that I heard about him was that whole work ethic thing because he showed up overweight. Otherwise, I haven't heard that he holds onto the ball to long or has difficulty reading defenses, so if you have a link to that, I would be interested in seeing it. To be honest, I have only seen him play a handful of times, one of which was that bowl game, and he looked pretty darn good to me. But that's probably not enough of a body of work to judge him on.

Here are some scouting reports I've read on him:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11405

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?contentId=8790957

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10056516

Geforce
04-26-2007, 07:35 AM
Hmm. I got most of my info from scouting reports off of nfl.com, espn.com, foxsports.com, and SI.com most of whom have him as the top rated QB prospect. The only concern that I heard about him was that whole work ethic thing because he showed up overweight. Otherwise, I haven't heard that he holds onto the ball to long or has difficulty reading defenses, so if you have a link to that, I would be interested in seeing it. To be honest, I have only seen him play a handful of times, one of which was that bowl game, and he looked pretty darn good to me. But that's probably not enough of a body of work to judge him on.

Here are some scouting reports I've read on him:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11405

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/draft/prospect?contentId=8790957

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10056516

JaMarcus may be the #1 rated QB in the draft but that doesn't mean he's #1 on the Dolphins' Draft Board. I'm not saying he isn't but you should not rely on the general media as to who is rated where on team's draft board.

With the Dolphins having met with Quinn 5 times, it would be safe to say that he is more of a target than Russell. Then again, I could be wrong.

Kyndig
04-26-2007, 07:44 AM
JaMarcus may be the #1 rated QB in the draft but that doesn't mean he's #1 on the Dolphins' Draft Board. I'm not saying he isn't but you should not rely on the general media as to who is rated where on team's draft board.

With the Dolphins having met with Quinn 5 times, it would be safe to say that he is more of a target than Russell. Then again, I could be wrong.

Unfortunately, that's the only source I have. I have no idea who is number one on our draft board, but whoever it is I would rely on Randy Mueller and Cam Cameron's judgement more than my own or any other public media source. All I'm saying is that everything that I've read says that if Quinn's off the board and Russell by some unlikely scenario ends up available to us, I would reckon that we would take him, which was the original point of this thread. Personally, if that happened, I'd be pretty excited...

Alex44
04-26-2007, 08:31 AM
Unfortunately, that's the only source I have. I have no idea who is number one on our draft board, but whoever it is I would rely on Randy Mueller and Cam Cameron's judgement more than my own or any other public media source. All I'm saying is that everything that I've read says that if Quinn's off the board and Russell by some unlikely scenario ends up available to us, I would reckon that we would take him, which was the original point of this thread. Personally, if that happened, I'd be pretty excited...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/russell_jamarcus


Will hold the ball to long waiting for his targets to get open, resulting in a sack or costly fumble

As for reading defenses I couldn't find much good or bad, but that mostly came from games I saw.

The work ethic thing concerns me. I have no clue where he is on the Phins draft board obviously, but just putting some of the small pieces together I don't think he fits what Cam is looking for exactly.

I think he will be successful in a deep passing system with a good offensive line. That just doesnt sound like us.

fishypete
04-26-2007, 08:49 AM
Russell is NOT a Cam Cameron type QB. So to answer the question: No we would not.

In fact I doubt we take him if he is sitting in our laps at #9. (Though it would be tempting)

I have to disagree that Russell isn't a Cam type QB...remember Rivers? And he has a far better record against the better teams than Quinn does.

fishypete
04-26-2007, 08:51 AM
JaMarcus may be the #1 rated QB in the draft but that doesn't mean he's #1 on the Dolphins' Draft Board. I'm not saying he isn't but you should not rely on the general media as to who is rated where on team's draft board.

With the Dolphins having met with Quinn 5 times, it would be safe to say that he is more of a target than Russell. Then again, I could be wrong.

Don't go by who they meet with....that doesn't mean a thing. One of the first QB's that the Dolphins talked to was Kolb.

Finfanforever
04-26-2007, 08:59 AM
Cam (according to the interview I saw) is REALLY big on the MENTAL side of the game. He wants a quick, intelligent QB who can make really good decisions under pressure. No disrespect for Russell...he's an awsome talent with tons of potential...but I don't see him as a Cameron guy. It's going to be either Quinn, Kolb, or Beck IMO.

Alex44
04-26-2007, 09:01 AM
I have to disagree that Russell isn't a Cam type QB...remember Rivers? And he has a far better record against the better teams than Quinn does.

Rivers is a far better Cam style offense QB than Russell. In fact Russell isnt even remotely the same as Rivers, so Im not sure what your getting at exactly with this comparison.

Also Russell played on a far better TEAM than Quinn. Singular players do not win games alone.

fishypete
04-26-2007, 09:09 AM
Cam (according to the interview I saw) is REALLY big on the MENTAL side of the game. He wants a quick, intelligent QB who can make really good decisions under pressure. No disrespect for Russell...he's an awsome talent with tons of potential...but I don't see him as a Cameron guy. It's going to be either Quinn, Kolb, or Beck IMO.

With so much time between the Combine and the draft, all of the top prospects are bound to be picked apart until warts show up. In what could turn out to be another case of paralysis by analysis, concerns are beginning to arise about Russell's ability to handle the leadership requirements of being the top pick. If Russell isn't drafted first overall by the Raiders, he could slip to Cleveland at No. 3. Despite all of the positive words by Cleveland GM Phil Savage, there remains some talk that the Browns might also pass if Russell was available. In that scenario, Minnesota and Miami would likely be exploring all options to move up.

I don't buy that mental part of the game stuff....he played against the top teams in the nation...and still threw for 67% comp rate. He also has a record of 25-4....and with Green....he would have a year or so to learn Cam's play book.

EireTiger
04-26-2007, 09:11 AM
I posted this in another thread but it is even more applicable here, you guys who write this stuff have obviously not seen Russell play and don't know much about him other than the ESPN highlights.

Russell is an honor student who ran an offense at LSU that was every bit as complicated as the one Quinn ran at ND. He was responsible for the initial read and checks at the line of scrimmage on every play.

ANother thing, the offense that LSU ran last year was a lot like a West Coast offense. It was a controlled passing offense with numerous short routes, bubble screens and crossing patterns. That is why he is a perfect fit for the Raiders. A number of the deep balls that you saw Russell throw were the result of Russell reading the coverage and checking off, or making a play outside the pocket. His west coast capabilities and unparalleled ability to throw the deep ball make him the perfect fit for Kiffin and Al Davis.

The player in the NFL that Russell most resembles is Carson Palmer, not Daunte Culpepper. Russell is a tall pocket passer who makes quick reads and has the ability to throw the deep ball effectively. He is tall, but mobile enough to escape the rush and make any throw. He is not someone who holds on to the ball and is always looking to throw deep. Russell has improved each week while he has been in college and will probably improve even more once he gets to the pros, his ceiling is higher than that of anyone in the draft, including Calvin Johnson.

fishypete
04-26-2007, 09:12 AM
Rivers is a far better Cam style offense QB than Russell. In fact Russell isnt even remotely the same as Rivers, so Im not sure what your getting at exactly with this comparison.

Also Russell played on a far better TEAM than Quinn. Singular players do not win games alone.

Which conference has the better teams....N.D. or the SEC?

Quarterbacks: Labeled a "once-in-a-decade" talent by some veteran scouts and compared to anyone from Daunte Culpepper to John Elway, Russell is in many ways the physical prototype of today's NFL quarterback. Capable of throwing the ball 50 yards with a flick of his wrist, and 80 when he really unloads, it is widely believed that Russell's throwing arm is stronger than that of any quarterback -- in the NFL or otherwise. Russell is far from just a long ball specialist. Former LSU offensive coordinator Jimbo Fisher created an offense that relied on timing and precision passing more than it depended on Russell's ability to fling it deep. Russell started 30 games and threw for 6,625 yards, 52 touchdowns and 21 interceptions for the Tigers. Known earlier in his career as a passer who would trust his arm and receivers too much, thus forcing throws into coverage, Russell made huge strides in 2006. His improved understanding of defenses, patience and willingness to check down to outlet receivers resulted in career-best totals for passing yards (3,129) and touchdowns (28) and only eight interceptions. At his size, Russell has surprisingly quick feet and is mobile in the pocket. Perhaps Russell's most underappreciated aspect is game management. Classified by some as a spectacular athlete, Russell rallied his team to victory in the fourth quarter or overtime in eight of his 25 career wins.

Finfanforever
04-26-2007, 09:13 AM
With so much time between the Combine and the draft, all of the top prospects are bound to be picked apart until warts show up. In what could turn out to be another case of paralysis by analysis, concerns are beginning to arise about Russell's ability to handle the leadership requirements of being the top pick. If Russell isn't drafted first overall by the Raiders, he could slip to Cleveland at No. 3. Despite all of the positive words by Cleveland GM Phil Savage, there remains some talk that the Browns might also pass if Russell was available. In that scenario, Minnesota and Miami would likely be exploring all options to move up.

I don't buy that mental part of the game stuff....he played against the top teams in the nation...and still threw for 67% comp rate. He also has a record of 25-4....and with Green....he would have a year or so to learn Cam's play book.

Pete...
nice stuff...source????

fishypete
04-26-2007, 09:15 AM
Pete...
nice stuff...source????

www.nfldraftscout.com (http://www.nfldraftscout.com)

emocomputerjock
04-26-2007, 09:22 AM
I'm not sure if Russell has the work ethic to be the next Dolphins franchise quarterback. Kolb is a known leader, a hard worker, and most importantly humble. You can't knock Russell's physical skills, but I think the only reason we draft him at 9 if he's available is to shop him.

fishypete
04-26-2007, 09:34 AM
Dolphins coach Cam Cameron and General Manager Randy Mueller are hitting the road to personally scout the top two quarterbacks in this year's NFL Draft. A source said Cameron and Mueller will visit today with Louisiana State's JaMarcus Russell before heading to meet Tuesday with Notre Dame's Brady Quinn. "I think they are great talents," Mueller said of Russell and Quinn while evaluating both at the NFL Scouting Combine in February. "I'm anxious to see a lot of [top prospects] go through the spring, how they handle it, how they work out." The 6-foot-6, 265-pound Russell blossomed as a redshirt junior last season, completing 67.8 percent of his passes with 28 touchdowns and eight interceptions. Russell finished his college career with a 25-4 record as a starter. Oakland coach Lane Kiffin compared the strong-armed Russell to a character in a video game last month while at the NFL owners' meetings in Phoenix. "There isn't a throw he can't make, probably," said Kiffin, whose team is strongly considering making Russell the draft's top overall selection. "And the throws he can make, I don't know if anybody else can."

Finfanforever
04-26-2007, 09:36 AM
I'll stick to Quinn, Kolb, or Beck...these are Cam-types. Don't think the Fins have Russell on their radar...

fishypete
04-26-2007, 09:38 AM
I'll stick to Quinn, Kolb, or Beck...these are Cam-types. Don't think the Fins have Russell on their radar...

I guess we'll find out Saturday.

Motion
04-26-2007, 09:42 AM
I wouldnt move up for Russell. I also think if Russell and Quinn are both available at 3 the Browns would take Russell.

:yeahthat:

fishypete
04-26-2007, 09:49 AM
General Studies major...Son of Zina Russell-Anderson and Bobby Lloyd...Made national news in 2006 after sharing his apartment with legendary musician Fats Domino in the days following Hurricane Katrina...Actually housed over a dozen family and friends for a week following the storm...Spent part of the 2006 offseason serving as a counselor at the Manning Passing Academy, working alongside Peyton and Eli Manning each day...Born 8/09/85 in Mobile, Alabama.


Worked along side with Peyton Manning....every day...Hmmm? Then has his best season throwing.

phin fan 4 ever
04-26-2007, 10:11 AM
if quinn is gone and russell is at nuber 6 i wouldn't take hime i would probably trade down and take a o-line guy like staley or blaylock or even kalil and get some more pics in the second round and then take a qb with one of our second rounders