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View Full Version : This REALLY Pisses Me Off!!



M-REAL
07-16-2003, 01:57 PM
I use to live in Canton, Ohio and even though I live in South Fla. now I think about all my family who still live there. The thing that I recently saw on 60 minutes 2 really pissed me off! It was about middle-class citizens, I think from Mansfield, Oh., waiting in a 2 mile line for food handouts because most of the iron works and factories there closed down and people whose generation after generation worked for these companies. Now they have nowhere to work and their children and parents are hungry day in and day out! What is wrong is that are country can dish out millions of $$ to other countries but we can't take care of our own? Something is definitely f**ked up here. Anyone agree with me? Thoughts and opinions please?

Dolfan984
07-16-2003, 01:59 PM
That's how our Government's been for the last couple of years. Get used to it. :(

PhinPhan1227
07-16-2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by marcusreal
I use to live in Canton, Ohio and even though I live in South Fla. now I think about all my family who still live there. The thing that I recently saw on 60 minutes 2 really pissed me off! It was about middle-class citizens, I think from Mansfield, Oh., waiting in a 2 mile line for food handouts because most of the iron works and factories there closed down and people whose generation after generation worked for these companies. Now they have nowhere to work and their children and parents are hungry day in and day out! What is wrong is that are country can dish out millions of $$ to other countries but we can't take care of our own? Something is definitely f**ked up here. Anyone agree with me? Thoughts and opinions please?

It's a messed up world, but it's been that way forever. Times and technology change, and some people are always going to get caught up in that. It's been that way since the Industrial Revolution, and it will be that way forever. America just isn't geared to be a manufacturing nation any more. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

M-REAL
07-16-2003, 03:16 PM
You know these people had been doing okay until these places had closed down, now they're screwed. I have been trying to remember when the last time this has happened to middle-class Americans though, I mean people who aren't homeless.

PhinPhan1227
07-16-2003, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by marcusreal
You know these people had been doing okay until these places had closed down, now they're screwed. I have been trying to remember when the last time this has happened to middle-class Americans though, I mean people who aren't homeless.


Take a look at when coal mines started to close, or the steel mills in Pittsburgh. Technology changes, labor becomes cheaper somewhere else...and people get caught in the middle. That's the nature of capitalism.

DeDolfan
07-16-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by marcusreal
I use to live in Canton, Ohio and even though I live in South Fla. now I think about all my family who still live there. The thing that I recently saw on 60 minutes 2 really pissed me off! It was about middle-class citizens, I think from Mansfield, Oh., waiting in a 2 mile line for food handouts because most of the iron works and factories there closed down and people whose generation after generation worked for these companies. Now they have nowhere to work and their children and parents are hungry day in and day out! What is wrong is that are country can dish out millions of $$ to other countries but we can't take care of our own? Something is definitely f**ked up here. Anyone agree with me? Thoughts and opinions please?

I feel ya ! But there is little "we" can do about it tho. Think this pisses you off, just wait til that new OT bill gets signed and the middle class that ARE still working will not be eligible for OT any more. Only some of the lower paid and some rich folks from what I understand. Bush might be for "all Americans", but i'll be damned if he's for the working folks. Problem is right now is that the Dems haven't really found anyone to really run against him so far.

M-REAL
07-17-2003, 04:04 PM
Too bad Gore is not running again. I think he would have won here in FLA. had that idiot Oliphant did her job right! Gore would have been Pres. now instead of Bush. I agree with ya, he is not for the working folks, only the super-rich.

PhinPhan1227
07-17-2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by marcusreal
Too bad Gore is not running again. I think he would have won here in FLA. had that idiot Oliphant did her job right! Gore would have been Pres. now instead of Bush. I agree with ya, he is not for the working folks, only the super-rich.

Gosh those darned inconvenient facts are such a pain in the butt when they get in the way. You might want to do a LITTLE fact checking and see that no less than FIVE independant newspapers, several of which are screamingly liberal, did their own hand recounts, and each and every one concluded that Bush would have won regardless of any state or federal court decisions, or actions on the part of the state board of elections. Oh, and as for Oliphant, you do know she's a democrat right?

MOULDSROCKS
07-18-2003, 01:52 AM
screw the poor and needy!

welfare is a crock!

why don't yopu get a f-in job you lazy POS!




(i was pretending to be rush...)

MaxPower
07-18-2003, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227


Gosh those darned inconvenient facts are such a pain in the butt when they get in the way. You might want to do a LITTLE fact checking and see that no less than FIVE independant newspapers, several of which are screamingly liberal, did their own hand recounts, and each and every one concluded that Bush would have won regardless of any state or federal court decisions, or actions on the part of the state board of elections. Oh, and as for Oliphant, you do know she's a democrat right?

Actually, K. Harris illegally removed thousands of likely Democrat voters from the rolls prior to the electrion. At the behest of Jeb Bush. With help from TX. There's also a breakdown of how these newpapers (hardly "screamingly" liberal) constructed their count and results (flawed, but not badly)

This guy broke the story -- http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20Presidency

All facts. All black & white. All reported in Europe, on the BBC, in the Washington Post. Funny, I missed the Fox News special on it....:goof:

Gore lost cause he was a weinie. He couldnt carry his home state of TN (although he did get royally screwed in FL). He's just as for-the-rich as Bush (maybe not quite THAT much) and Clinton was no worse. His welfare "reform" is just as harsh to poor women as this OT thing will be to the rest of us.

PhinPhan1227
07-18-2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by MaxPower


Actually, K. Harris illegally removed thousands of likely Democrat voters from the rolls prior to the electrion. At the behest of Jeb Bush. With help from TX. There's also a breakdown of how these newpapers (hardly "screamingly" liberal) constructed their count and results (flawed, but not badly)

This guy broke the story -- http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20Presidency

All facts. All black & white. All reported in Europe, on the BBC, in the Washington Post. Funny, I missed the Fox News special on it....:goof:

Gore lost cause he was a weinie. He couldnt carry his home state of TN (although he did get royally screwed in FL). He's just as for-the-rich as Bush (maybe not quite THAT much) and Clinton was no worse. His welfare "reform" is just as harsh to poor women as this OT thing will be to the rest of us.

Balance that out with the fact that recounts allowed thousands of double punched cards in predominantly democrat areas under the assumption that they would have voted Dem. As for the exclusion of individuals who's names resembled known felons, I've never seen a good explanation for how that disenfranchises Democrats more than Republicans. Do more Dems have names that resemble felons or something?

M-REAL
07-18-2003, 01:11 PM
What was the 6 or 7 boxes of uncounted votes doing sitting in her office then? Sorry, but he would have won FLA. by a small margin. Once again, incompetance in Fla. rules supreme.

MaxPower
07-18-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227

Balance that out with the fact that recounts allowed thousands of double punched cards in predominantly democrat areas under the assumption that they would have voted Dem. As for the exclusion of individuals who's names resembled known felons, I've never seen a good explanation for how that disenfranchises Democrats more than Republicans. Do more Dems have names that resemble felons or something?

They targeted areas that were predominantly poor and black (& hence Democratic).

Their ethnicity was listed along with the names in the database...which was the basis for the NAACP lawsuit (which the NAACP one, BTW)

I don't think it balance's out at all. The margin of "victory" was way too narrow...I mean we're talking about 50,000 people...

And that group of papers/media did not actually "recount" the ballots... they simply coded & recorded the ones that were tossed out. So one that was decribed as "Gore circled" on paper was not really added to Gore's count. There has been no definitive "recount" to determine the true winner....The actual report from NORC on "voter intent" went like this (& you can check the NORC report online):


Statewide count/Prevailing standards __ Gore by 60
Statewide count/Custom standard __ Gore by 171
Statewide count/ Most inclusive standard __ Gore by 107
Statewide count/ Most restrictive standard __ Gore by 115
Statewide count/Bush standard __ Gore by 105


The only count Gore would have "lost" was the four-county-only one he wanted. What a maroon.

But assuming only 65% (and that's low) of the 50,000 poor & black people were Dems, that's over 30,000 lost Gore/Nader votes.

Trickery like that can only get you elected to Congress:rolleyes:

Way to go K Harris!! WHoooooo!!

PhinPhan1227
07-18-2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by MaxPower


They targeted areas that were predominantly poor and black (& hence Democratic).

Their ethnicity was listed along with the names in the database...which was the basis for the NAACP lawsuit (which the NAACP one, BTW)

I don't think it balance's out at all. The margin of "victory" was way too narrow...I mean we're talking about 50,000 people...

And that group of papers/media did not actually "recount" the ballots... they simply coded & recorded the ones that were tossed out. So one that was decribed as "Gore circled" on paper was not really added to Gore's count. There has been no definitive "recount" to determine the true winner....The actual report from NORC on "voter intent" went like this (& you can check the NORC report online):



The only count Gore would have "lost" was the four-county-only one he wanted. What a maroon.

But assuming only 65% (and that's low) of the 50,000 poor & black people were Dems, that's over 30,000 lost Gore/Nader votes.

Trickery like that can only get you elected to Congress:rolleyes:

Way to go K Harris!! WHoooooo!!


Excuse me, but the excluded individuals were removed because of the similarity their name shared with known felons in an effort to keep THOSE persons from voting. They weren't excluded by race, they were excluded by NAME. I'm sure that many of them were Dems. But many of them were probably also Repubs. Further, you're assuming that many/any of them would have voted. The bottom line is that there were plenty of irregularites in this election, but there always have been. Heck, lets talk about the New Jersey Supreme Court violating the LETTER of that states Constitution and hijacking that states Congressional race. And most importantly, is there ANYONE who SERIOUSLY would have preferred to have Al Gore at the wheel when 9/11 went down? He'd STILL be thinking about an appropriate response a year and a half after the fact.

Muck
07-23-2003, 01:35 PM
I had and still have little confidence in Al Gore as a president. One thing I do like about him is that he's a staunch environmentalist (at least that's his reputation). But as far as him being Commander in Chief when 9/11 went down, I'd much rather have Bush.

Still, I didn't vote for either of them.

MOULDSROCKS
07-27-2003, 08:50 PM
rather have Bush.... ok
why?


b/c he is an idiot and is as hard-headed as a 6 y/o spoiled girl who got coal on christmas? I don't get it.
What did he do that was so special? Start a war with Iraq, right. Good but he didn't work on the diplomacy and now the whole thing has turned into a mess with most of our troops in that country. What if trouble starts with Korea or Afghanistan again? We won't have the man-power we should have b/c of this whole screwy situation AND now we find out we will probably have to be present there for at least a decade.
all this while pissing off the world & embarassing the UN (not good)
(no help)



Nice job, you putz.

PhinPhan1227
07-28-2003, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by MOULDSROCKS
rather have Bush.... ok
why?


b/c he is an idiot and is as hard-headed as a 6 y/o spoiled girl who got coal on christmas? I don't get it.
What did he do that was so special? Start a war with Iraq, right. Good but he didn't work on the diplomacy and now the whole thing has turned into a mess with most of our troops in that country. What if trouble starts with Korea or Afghanistan again? We won't have the man-power we should have b/c of this whole screwy situation AND now we find out we will probably have to be present there for at least a decade.
all this while pissing off the world & embarassing the UN (not good)
(no help)



Nice job, you putz.


If anyone thinks we'd ever attempt to put ground forces into North Korea again, that individual has less understanding of military matters than my Cocker Spaniel.

Barbarian
07-28-2003, 11:18 AM
Originally posted by PhinPhan1227



If anyone thinks we'd ever attempt to put ground forces into North Korea again, that individual has less understanding of military matters than my Cocker Spaniel.

Were to busy ignoring them...

actually I like the strategy, N. Korea is complaining and trying to play the martyr, and we aren't giving in and giving them what they want, and this is ticking them off to no end... I'm actually enjoying watching it (our boys over there are getting a kick out of it as well, one of my friends is stationed over there and it's getting to be a huge joke among americans in S. Korea.

PhinPhan1227
07-28-2003, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Barbarian


Were to busy ignoring them...

actually I like the strategy, N. Korea is complaining and trying to play the martyr, and we aren't giving in and giving them what they want, and this is ticking them off to no end... I'm actually enjoying watching it (our boys over there are getting a kick out of it as well, one of my friends is stationed over there and it's getting to be a huge joke among americans in S. Korea.

Exactly. There's no way we would send our troops into N Korea...it's a freakin' meat grinder that would produce insane casualties. If anyone wants a decent parallel, see the Balkans. Same topography, and what's worse...the N Korean people LOVE their leader.