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CanadianFish
07-23-2003, 09:41 AM
What Free agent pick up or drafte will have the biggest impact in our Division.

1) Rosevelt Colvin he will add alot of talen to an already impressive Defense, I think we will have serious competition from the Pats to win the AFC East.

2) Takeo Spikes will bring leadership an talent to a young defense.

3) Sammy Knight with his ability to create turnovers and hold on to them he should have a big impact in Miami. I think 5-7 Interceptions this season

Biggest Flops in our division

1) Curtis Conway he isn't even gonna come close to replacing Coles. I hope for the Jets Moss steps up an becomes the player that they expected him to be.

2) Derius Thompson, the last thing Miami needed was another possession receciver, I think that with a great running game like they have Miami needs speed on the outsided to spread the field an McDrop is not the player that will open it up for them.

3) McGahee now if your the Bills an you already have Henry who is coming off a career making season, what are you smoking to go pick up a crippled RB in the first round. I predict he will never be a starting RB in the NFL.

iceblizzard69
07-23-2003, 09:46 AM
Thompson was a good signing who will compliment Chambers. Thompson has good size and goes along well with the faster Chambers and McKnight.

I think Takeo Spikes and Roosevelt Colvin will have huge impacts on their teams, but Spikes won't make the Bills defense good (after all the defense he was on last year wasn't good) while Colvin will give the Pats another pass rushing option. Colvin will have a big impact but he won't make the Pats defense great or anything. I think they won't be as good in a 3-4 system.

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 10:12 AM
Takeo Spikes and Jeff Posey...two Bills we have inked for years, and 2 names you will hear quite often.....even the most biased finfan can realize this is a massive upgrade over slow as a slug Keith Newman and Eddie Robinson

dolphan39
07-23-2003, 11:06 AM
not a true answer, but how well Sam Adams and/or Marcus Robertson help plug up their team's run D will be a key to who wins the division

XoPhinsoX
07-23-2003, 11:08 AM
Spikes will be an improvement, but what leadership has he shown thats all of a sudden going to help the Bills? He was on the Bengals ;\, couldn't do anything there to help.

I guess we have to just wait and see.

Muck
07-23-2003, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by CanadianFish

Biggest Flops in our division

2) Derius Thompson, the last thing Miami needed was another possession receciver, I think that with a great running game like they have Miami needs speed on the outsided to spread the field an McDrop is not the player that will open it up for them.

On the contrary, I think a possession receiver was EXACTLY what the Phins needed. Sure, they wanted a guy with speed. But first and foremost, he had to be able to go over the middle and move the chains. Chambers is wasted (and unhappy) in that role. McKnight is also not suited for it.

At the time of the signing, we were targeting Ike Hilliard, Kevin Dyson, Oronde Gadsden, and Derrius Thompson. All possession receivers. Only Chambers and McKnight were on the roster.

Thompson has good speed and can do things down the field. He averaged nearly 15 ypc last season lining up opposite Rod Gardener (who is also a possession receiver), catching passes from Danny Wuerffel, Shane Matthews, and rookie Patrick Ramsey.

He will prove to be a good signing IMO.

The Beach Bum
07-23-2003, 02:53 PM
This is exactly what i have been thinking about Spikes all along... He never made a pro bowl, and i barely ever heard his name on ESPN or seen highlights of plays that hes made... I think he is very overrated and hasnt really proven a thing... I sincerely doubt that any buffalo fans watched him play when he was on teh bengals and say "Wow, he's good, i wish he was on my team."

To me, unless he makes a pro bowl, has consistant play this year, or gets on top 10 plays of the week for that matter, i have no respect for him whatsoever.

MDFINFAN
07-23-2003, 02:53 PM
McKnight changed his name from McDrops last year to McPlaymaker..Don't know what planet you were on last year, but when McPlaymaker played, he was the receiving corps, unfortunately it left CC as a possesion receiver. So signing DT was the right move, as Muck pointed out, we had none at the time of his signing.

Muck
07-23-2003, 02:56 PM
The reason that Spikes hasn't made a Pro Bowl is because he played in Cincinnati. Also, the FANS vote on the Pro Bowl. It's a popularity contest.

In NFL circles, Spikes is well respected. Remember when Jerome Bettis caused all that ruckus by saying that Spikes was as talented as Ray Lewis??

M-REAL
07-23-2003, 03:02 PM
Either Thompson or Seau or both.

baccarat
07-23-2003, 03:02 PM
I'd say Spikes not because he'll be the most productive but because the Bills had a crappy defense last year which should be at least average.

DolfanISS
07-23-2003, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
McKnight changed his name from McDrops last year to McPlaymaker..Don't know what planet you were on last year, but when McPlaymaker played, he was the receiving corps, unfortunately it left CC as a possesion receiver. So signing DT was the right move, as Muck pointed out, we had none at the time of his signing.

People really need to lay off McKnight for that drop against Baltimore in the 2001 playoffs. Like I keep saying with Zach Thomas hurt, he wouldn't have been able to play the following week, they weren't going to win anything anyways.

stan marino
07-23-2003, 05:26 PM
I'm not a big McKnight fan at all, I think calling an over thirty year old speed reciever, who was the only reciever in all the camps last year, but still lost out to 3 other recievers McPlaymaker is absolutely ridiculous. I forgot about the drop against Baltimore, but i do remember the fumble in Minn.

eurycea
07-23-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by The Beach Bum
I sincerely doubt that any buffalo fans watched him play when he was on teh bengals and say Wow, he's good, i wish he was on my team.

I'm not a Bills fan, but I've wished Spikes was on the Chiefs ever since he was drafted. I don't know how anyone could not want him on their team. The guy is a great playmaker.

Muck
07-23-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by stan marino
I'm not a big McKnight fan at all, I think calling an over thirty year old speed reciever, who was the only reciever in all the camps last year, but still lost out to 3 other recievers McPlaymaker is absolutely ridiculous. I forgot about the drop against Baltimore, but i do remember the fumble in Minn.

Wanny said McKnight was the team's best receiver last season. He also admitted that his handling of McKnight was a mistake.

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by The Beach Bum
This is exactly what i have been thinking about Spikes all along... He never made a pro bowl, and i barely ever heard his name on ESPN or seen highlights of plays that hes made... I think he is very overrated and hasnt really proven a thing... I sincerely doubt that any buffalo fans watched him play when he was on teh bengals and say "Wow, he's good, i wish he was on my team."

To me, unless he makes a pro bowl, has consistant play this year, or gets on top 10 plays of the week for that matter, i have no respect for him whatsoever.

okay man, this is wrong, first, I've always loved Spikes because he got me mad points on my Fantasy Football team;) ...second....did you hear about the last game of the year in Buffalo last year?....Bills fans cheered his name when it was announced, and some Bill fan actually said to him, "Takeo, do really well today, but don't hurt any of our players cuz you're going to be their teammate next year"....Bills fans know their football, and they know that having a great LB like him can do wonders for a defense.

stan marino
07-23-2003, 06:29 PM
I'm sorry Muck I really dont think he's the answer, its my opinion, and i dont think that the coaches were all that wrong to not start him last year. Wanny likes to flip flop in his interviews all the time, so that really means nothing to me personally. I really dont like the guy, if he proves me wrong thats great, but how many over 30yrs old speed receivers still perform??? Hey more power to him if he performs, and it is just my opinion, which means nothing.

MDFINFAN
07-24-2003, 01:13 AM
Originally posted by stan marino
I'm sorry Muck I really dont think he's the answer, its my opinion, and i dont think that the coaches were all that wrong to not start him last year. Wanny likes to flip flop in his interviews all the time, so that really means nothing to me personally. I really dont like the guy, if he proves me wrong thats great, but how many over 30yrs old speed receivers still perform??? Hey more power to him if he performs, and it is just my opinion, which means nothing.

Stan, I guess you really have to go back to the 2nd part of last year and ask yourself did McKnight flopped or did he play pretty good, Do you remember Ricky William's fumbles...Do you remember McKnight catching that pass 2 inches off the ground at the line of scrimage and out manuvering the CB to gain 70 yards. Do you remember his sideline TD catch over 2 defenders in the NE game...Do you remember him beating NE on a post and Jay overthrew him that would have iced the game..Did you see Safties play up when he and CC started together, No they stayed back and Ricky started running wild. Hopefully you have some tapes of the 2nd part of the year, go back and look at them, Wanny blew playing him earlier. He played like the player we though we were first bringing in.

stan marino
07-24-2003, 01:24 AM
Like i said its my opinion, i disagree cuz even in the 2nd half he fumbled against the vikes and the bears. He's getting older, he's been a starter for how many games in his career, and this exact team didnt even dress him last year. U cant sit here and tell me it was all a big mistake last year??? He was the only healthy starter we had through out all the minicamps last year and then hes told to sit on the bench cuz the coaches missed something??? 3 other wr's started over him!!! Dont sound reasonable to me. But like I said its my opinion and we'll have to agree to disagree.

PhinPhan1227
07-24-2003, 09:32 AM
Biggest Flops in our division

2) Derius Thompson, the last thing Miami needed was another possession receciver, I think that with a great running game like they have Miami needs speed on the outsided to spread the field an McDrop is not the player that will open it up for them.


What good do burner WR's do us when we don't have a QB who can stretch the field?

The Beach Bum
07-24-2003, 10:44 AM
Circling, Just because fans know about a player, doesnt mean that they watched the player. Take me for instince. I watched maybe one saints game when ricky was there, but when he got here, i read in the papers about how good he was, so i started to beleive he was one of the best without ever watching him... NE ways, you live in miami, how would you know what the fans in the stands were saying???

Also, i dont want to here the excuse taht he was in cincinatti...If he is so great, he would be a standout all star in a defense with no other stars. He should be making all the tackles, and making big plays. BUt that didnt happen, even in a horrible bengal defense. Zach had way better numbers (im pretty sure) and we had to face harder offenses than the bengals, AND Zach had to compete with his own teamates to make tackles... This is one of the main reasons taht i think T. Spikes is overrated, and if hes so great, i would like him to prove me wrong...

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by The Beach Bum
Circling, Just because fans know about a player, doesnt mean that they watched the player. Take me for instince. I watched maybe one saints game when ricky was there, but when he got here, i read in the papers about how good he was, so i started to beleive he was one of the best without ever watching him... NE ways, you live in miami, how would you know what the fans in the stands were saying???

Also, i dont want to here the excuse taht he was in cincinatti...If he is so great, he would be a standout all star in a defense with no other stars. He should be making all the tackles, and making big plays. BUt that didnt happen, even in a horrible bengal defense. Zach had way better numbers (im pretty sure) and we had to face harder offenses than the bengals, AND Zach had to compete with his own teamates to make tackles... This is one of the main reasons taht i think T. Spikes is overrated, and if hes so great, i would like him to prove me wrong...
you think Takeo Spikes is overrated?..haha, I'll bet money he's in the probowl come February...this guy is a beast, and has consistently been one of the best LB's the last 5 years....btw, who played in front of him in Cincy?...no one...he took on blockers and still put up the great stats, and yes that does matter...for example everytime you play the Jets, Mawae is always in Thomas' face...imagine what Spikes can do with space-eating tackles in front of him, and a very good middle lb next to him...not to mention a pass-rushing specialist in Posey on the other side. a little off subject, but the only positions that worry me at all on defense(barring serious injury), are FS, and LE

XoPhinsoX
07-24-2003, 02:12 PM
You should worry about your CB position IMO ;).

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by XoPhinsoX
You should worry about your CB position IMO ;).
Clements, Winfield, with nickel-back Sidney, and Thomas...are you joking?

The Beach Bum
07-24-2003, 03:55 PM
Now we are going to get into cornerbacks...

Lets see... Clements had an impressive year with 6 interceptions, but winfield has done jack squat. I have no idea who sidney or thomas are, so, no comment. THis squad does not deserve the comment "ARe you joking?" THat is a comment for our secondary, but yours is unexperienced, and like spikes, has proven nothing.

Spikes had 171 tackles, 113 solo. and he is 6'2 245

Zach had 195 tackles, 129 solo. and he is only 5'10 235

Size makes a huge difference, and spikes had less numbers with less of a supporting cast. I take your DT comment into consideration, but, what great tackles do the bills have that will be any different??? Pat Williams i beleive will be good, but Sam adams is overweight and slow. Adams will be no match for fast centers like Mawae, and Williams is more of a pass rusher. Im not sure, is Kevin Hardy any good? I have heard his name before, and i think i ahve heard positive things about him. I know Fletcher is most likely better than him, but i was trying to make a point about the supporting cast around him.

Bowens was the only thing that Zach had to block off centers. He is great, but an often injured Larry Chester did not succeed as well as we thought, we hope he is better this year. Zach did not have a good supporting cast last year, but still... had good numbers...

The Beach Bum
07-24-2003, 03:58 PM
oh, and how do you know he is a beast? I hate comments like this... I want you to HONESTLY tell me how many times you have watched him play, excluding buffalo games. If you have watched him, i apologize fully, but i do not like comments like that since you ahve obviously never been hit by him, or watched him consistently (most likely)

DolphinDevil28
07-24-2003, 04:00 PM
What are you talking about Bum? Larry Chester played very well last year. He also was nagged by that leg injury. He is now completely healthy, and I think he will surpass Tim Bowens as the best DT on our team.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 04:01 PM
Originally posted by The Beach Bum
oh, and how do you know he is a beast? I hate comments like this... I want you to HONESTLY tell me how many times you have watched him play, excluding buffalo games. If you have watched him, i apologize fully, but i do not like comments like that since you ahve obviously never been hit by him, or watched him consistently (most likely)
The Bengals are rarely televised so I don't see him much, all I can tell you is he was on my fantasy team for a couple years and he was off the chain

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 04:03 PM
btw...look whose playing in front and behind thomas...now look at who Spikes was playing with in Cincy....teams ran away from his side, and blockers were free to get up in his face, yet he still produced on a massive scale....put zach thomas in a bengals uni, see if their record differs last year

MarinoFan
07-24-2003, 04:03 PM
CW, just so you know, Clements stats were padded by Pucas last year. I think 4 of his INT's came from Lucas alone. That leaves 2 for 14 games.

dolfan4good
07-24-2003, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by DolphinDevil28
What are you talking about Bum? Larry Chester played very well last year. He also was nagged by that leg injury. He is now completely healthy, and I think he will surpass Tim Bowens as the best DT on our team.

Zgonina was very impressive with the Rams last year, including 4 sacks. Don't be shocked if he comes in on 3rd downs simply to wreck havok.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by MarinoFan
CW, just so you know, Clements stats were padded by Pucas last year. I think 4 of his INT's came from Lucas alone. That leaves 2 for 14 games.

yeah, and having no D-Line certainly helps that...easy for you to say when you have Taylor rushing the QB..we had Schobel, Denney and Edwards...please think first....Clements and Winfield didnt blow that many coverages last year too, which was very impressive...yes the raider game and a few others were bad, but generally they did a pretty damn good job....your corners are the best, but i'd like to see how they do when the qb has all day to throw the ball

dolfan4good
07-24-2003, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons


yeah, and having no D-Line certainly helps that...your corners are the best, but i'd like to see how they do when the qb has all day to throw the ball

What D-LINE did you pick up to change this from last year? Fat Sam? You still have no pass rush unless you send Takeo.

MarinoFan
07-24-2003, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons


yeah, and having no D-Line certainly helps that...easy for you to say when you have Taylor rushing the QB..we had Schobel, Denney and Edwards...please think first....Clements and Winfield didnt blow that many coverages last year too, which was very impressive...yes the raider game and a few others were bad, but generally they did a pretty damn good job....your corners are the best, but i'd like to see how they do when the qb has all day to throw the ball

Dude, I was only talk about INT's. His stats are padded cause Lucas was tossing him the ball like if they were at the park. If you remember that game clearly, Lucas was consistently underthrowing and overthrowing. Every single INT by Clement was simple, he didn't have to make an adjustment or anything.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by MarinoFan


Dude, I was only talk about INT's. His stats are padded cause Lucas was tossing him the ball like if they were at the park. If you remember that game clearly, Lucas was consistently underthrowing and overthrowing. Every single INT by Clement was simple, he didn't have to make an adjustment or anything.
When did I discount that?...I just said Clements is still a great CB

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by dolfan4good


What D-LINE did you pick up to change this from last year? Fat Sam? You still have no pass rush unless you send Takeo.
Jeff Posey(8 sacks last year), Marcus Jones, Keith McKenzie, and Draft pick Chris Kelsay....all better depth than last year...btw, try running up the middle with Sam and Pat there....try

dolfan4good
07-24-2003, 04:32 PM
Oh Please. Posey had 8 sacks last year after being in the league a few years and bouncing from team to team. He also had only 60 tackles in 16 games. He has to prove to me that he can do it on a consistent basis, year in year out, which he hasn't done. He doesn't scare me at all.

Marcus Jones - 25 tackles 3 sacks
Keith McKenzie - Bounced around last year as well. Barely has any stats.

You must be dreaming that your pass rush will be better. JT had more sacks last year than all of the pickups you mentioned COMBINED.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 04:56 PM
yes...Posey had 8 sacks and 60+ tackles in 16 games, only starts though....now he's actually playing with good people around him

btw, Posey has 11 career sacks and 8 of them were last year...we're clearly getting him at the right time

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by dolfan4good
Oh Please. Posey had 8 sacks last year after being in the league a few years and bouncing from team to team. He also had only 60 tackles in 16 games. He has to prove to me that he can do it on a consistent basis, year in year out, which he hasn't done. He doesn't scare me at all.

Marcus Jones - 25 tackles 3 sacks
Keith McKenzie - Bounced around last year as well. Barely has any stats.

You must be dreaming that your pass rush will be better. JT had more sacks last year than all of the pickups you mentioned COMBINED.
and when did I say our dline was going to be better than yours?...I said it will improve greatly, stop being so defensive

dolfan4good
07-24-2003, 04:58 PM
How come everytime we point out the deficiences in your arguments concerning your players (Spikes, now Posey), your response is "now they have better palyers around". From where? I have pointed out that each player is mediocre at best (DL wise). Where are these other good people coming from?

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by dolfan4good
How come everytime we point out the deficiences in your arguments concerning your players (Spikes, now Posey), your response is "now they have better palyers around". From where? I have pointed out that each player is mediocre at best (DL wise). Where are these other good people coming from?

Our secondary is solid(with the exception of FS...if you have any qualms with that, then look at where we were both ranked at in passing d last year)...Adams and Williams are great DT's...Williams is one of the most underrated, just ask your boy Wanny....Spikes and Fletcher are both great..that's who i'm referring too

dolfan4good
07-24-2003, 05:06 PM
I believe that the part of the therad we were discussing was your pass rush. WHere is it going to come from this year as opposed to the non-existant one you had last season. None of the guys you mentioned (except for Posey and that only last year) have shown they can rush the passer. Thus your GREAT secondary is left hanging AGAIN! This year they won't have Lucas throwing to them.

zach13
07-24-2003, 05:07 PM
Buffalo's safeties are poor.

Their defense last year was horrible.

They definitely upgraded one spot with Spikes, the rest of the players are all middle of the road.

Whether that will make their defense appreciably better reamins to be seen.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 05:09 PM
umm...Marcus Jones, Keith McKenzie, and Chris Kelsay are certainly better then the trash we had last year at LE...btw, maybe you overhype the pass rush, all it needs to be is adequate and consistent...you guys had the leading sacker last year, but we moved the chains at will on you

dolfan4good
07-24-2003, 05:13 PM
Good. Deflect the inadequacies of your team by attempting to smack on ours.

Fact is your defense was terrible last year and you did little to make a major impact.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by dolfan4good
Good. Deflect the inadequacies of your team by attempting to smack on ours.

Fact is your defense was terrible last year and you did little to make a major impact.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
oh, i'm saving this thread...hope you like crow buddy, cuz that's what you'll be eatin':lol:

The Beach Bum
07-24-2003, 11:08 PM
circling,

i just want to tell you that i do not agree you did little to improve your defense. I just dont think they will be all that you hype them up to be.

You got-
Adams-DT- Fat, slow, and underachieving. He was good in baltimore, and a disapointment in Oakland. There have been reports saying that he is very out of shape, and that he was not participating in team workout drills. I think you are in for a disapointment with him.

McKenzie and Jones-DL- Both were once dominant, but have been derailed by injuries. They will never be the players that they once were, and also are not what you think they are going to be.

Posey-LB- He will be predomitadly covering the tight end most of the year (I heard in various reports from ESPN and the bills analysis in Athlon sports magazine) and will not be the pass rushing king that you invision. He is taking over for Keith Newman, who was your TE coverer last year, so expect the same job for posey.

Reese-DB- May start over prioleau, but is unproven and no one knows much about him.

Sidney and Thomas-DB- Coaches hope that they will be able to handle playing nickel and dime back.

MOULDSROCKS
07-27-2003, 09:31 PM
Gotta be Spikes...


Check it:
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20030727/1018222.asp

MOULDSROCKS
07-27-2003, 09:31 PM
Or Adams....


Check this:
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/sports/bills/camp2003/story06.shtml

MOULDSROCKS
07-27-2003, 09:33 PM
Thomas is a playmaker who is firmly entrenched as the NCB and could take over as the starter next year (believe it).

TigerJ
07-28-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by The Beach Bum:
"I sincerely doubt that any buffalo fans watched him play when he was on teh bengals and say Wow, he's good, i wish he was on my team."

Actually when the Bengals visited Ralph Wilson stadium last year, Bills fans did exactly that, cheering Spikes as he came out of the tunnel. Spikes commented on the warm welcome later and made it seem as if fan reaction was at least a factor in his decision to sign with the Bills.

Dolfan02
08-16-2003, 04:30 AM
Dam, I'm still marveled at the fact we have fans in Canada?!

Alright Miami!


:up:

dolphan
08-16-2003, 07:54 AM
There's a whole lot of ignorance about other teams players for so much talking.

1. Takeo Spikes is one of the best Linebackers in the NFL bar NO ONE.

2. Jeff posey is such a huge upgrade over keith Newman that it isn't even funny.

3. Sam Adams is supposed to be big and fat, but he is not slow, and he and Pat Williams are already plugging the middle and releasing the Bills LBs to run free.

4. The Bills CBs are great. Winfield doesn't pick the ball off because he isn't thrown at. He never misses a tackle and is one of the best cover corners in the league. Playmaker? No. Shut down? Hell yes.

TigerJ
08-16-2003, 01:07 PM
Let's be clear about Sam Adams. He is not a sure thing. Us Buffalo fans know that. He is not, however, inordinately out of shape. He earned a bonus by coming into training camp at the weight targeted by the Bills. The potential problem for Sam Adams is not his weight. It's not his attitude, which has been terrific. It is his knees, which nobody can do anything about. That's why he gets more rest in training camp than some other guys. It's also why Buffalo expects to give significant playing time during the season to backups Ron Edwards and Justing Bannan, who have had terrific training camps. Buffalo knew this going into training camp and took a calculated risk that Adams' talent is work the chance that his knees will cause problems. Whether they can nurse his knees through an entire season with the steps they have taken is anybody's guess.

Regarding other areas of the defence, McKenzie is having a great training camp. Marcus Jones is still slowed by his knee and likely will not be full speed before the start of the season. Ryan Denney, who looked like a second round bust a year ago had a great offseason with conditioning and adding weight (muscle), looks like he can be productive. Jeff Posey has been very impressive in camp. Spikes is Spikes, though he "tweaked" a groin early this week and may miss the Titans game tonight as a precaution. Izell Reese has been fine. Pierson Prioleau, however, has made great strides and looks not to be giving up the FS starting spot without a fight. Coy Wire has been terrific. Dainon Sidney and Kevin Thomas have both been good in camp and it looks like Buffalo will be fine for nickel and dime backs.