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HelpForRicky
07-23-2003, 08:51 PM
It seems like every magazine about football I see right now has the Raiders going to the Superbowl. The Oakland Raiders. The same Oakland Raiders we over-whelmed last year.

Oakland is going to come out and try to do the exact same ting that they did last year. Play mediocre defense, and pass the hell out of the ball. Thats all they can do. The simple fact is, the raiders will have a tough time against any team with a solid front four. Or even a good DE. I believe the Dolphins fit that mould.

I dont even know why i even made this post, I just got sick and tired of seeing raiders raiders raiders. Lets see them play miami right now. No Chance. We would overwhelm them once again.

Im not garuanteeing Miami will win the superbowl, but i am garuanteeing the raiders won't.

baccarat
07-23-2003, 08:53 PM
They did make it last year. They're probably just assuming they'll repeat as AFC Champions. Typcial.

Fresh
07-23-2003, 08:53 PM
Relax. Hit the X in the top right corner, click start and shut down. Sit back and relax!

That's a good thing, I hate being favorites. I'd rather be the under dogs.

XoPhinsoX
07-23-2003, 10:16 PM
They made it last year and should have the year before. .

Doesn't seem un-reasonable.

Let's go flood their boards about how much we own them :goof:

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by XoPhinsoX
They made it last year and should have the year before. .

Doesn't seem un-reasonable.

Let's go flood their boards about how much we own them :goof:
you own them?...yeah, you've beaten them in many regular season meetings, but the one time it really counted(27-0), you lost...look, dont take this out on me, i'm just preparing you for the comebacks you'll get on the raiderboard

baccarat
07-23-2003, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

you own them?...yeah, you've beaten them in many regular season meetings, but the one time it really counted(27-0), you lost...look, dont take this out on me, i'm just preparing you for the comebacks you'll get on the raiderboard

More like 27-10. That counts more since it was the AFC Championship game.


12/30/73

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by booyeah_


More like 27-10. That counts more since it was the AFC Championship game.


12/30/73
look at the date on that...also, remember Stabler's play in the 74 championship game?..also, Raiders have 3SBs to your 2, and they are more recent(somehow this is going to warrant buffalo SB comebacks)...im just telling you what they are going to say

JAGFISH
07-23-2003, 10:47 PM
We just match up well w/ them. They can't get away from the press w/ those two golden oldies.

baccarat
07-23-2003, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

look at the date on that...also, remember Stabler's play in the 74 championship game?..also, Raiders have 3SBs to your 2, and they are more recent(somehow this is going to warrant buffalo SB comebacks)...im just telling you what they are going to say

I'm not going to any Oakland Raiders board. I'm just saying we've beaten Oakland in playoff games before.

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by booyeah_


I'm not going to any Oakland Raiders board. I'm just saying we've beaten Oakland in playoff games before.
of course you have, but there really is no bragging rights..thats all

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by JAGFISH
We just match up well w/ them. They can't get away from the press w/ those two golden oldies.
true, but the golden oldies got them to the SB tho, while we were both watching the playoffs

Muck
07-23-2003, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

you own them?...yeah, you've beaten them in many regular season meetings, but the one time it really counted(27-0), you lost...look, dont take this out on me, i'm just preparing you for the comebacks you'll get on the raiderboard

We own them. Even Raider players themselves, when asked about potentially facing the Phins in the postseason last year, said that they were relieved to see us go and "it's just not a good matchup".

We own them and they know it. I don't care what happened 3 years ago. It's all about the present.

Baz
07-23-2003, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

you own them?...yeah, you've beaten them in many regular season meetings, but the one time it really counted(27-0), you lost...look, dont take this out on me, i'm just preparing you for the comebacks you'll get on the raiderboard

Why is it that you always take it upon yourself to find little ways to try and deflate any optimism on this board? Considering you seem like a really smart person, this sure is a childish thing to do. In response to your "just preparing you for the responses you'll get", you know full well everyone on this board know what they are going to say. You're just finding ways to insert a little jab towards the Dolphins. Furthermore, you know that the average Raiders fan will respond with an F you, rather than intelligent debate. My apologies to the resident Raiders fans, you all are the exception, not the rule I'm afraid.......

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by Muck


We own them. Even Raider players themselves, when asked about potentially facing the Phins in the postseason last year, said that they were relieved to see us go and "it's just not a good matchup".

We own them and they know it. I don't care what happened 3 years ago. It's all about the present.
i'll remember that quote Muck...especially for the Smack board;) ...you are right, doesnt matter what happened a couple years ago:)

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 11:07 PM
Originally posted by Bazinet37


Why is it that you always take it upon yourself to find little ways to try and deflate any optimism on this board? Considering you seem like a really smart person, this sure is a childish thing to do. In response to your "just preparing you for the responses you'll get", you know full well everyone on this board know what they are going to say. You're just finding ways to insert a little jab towards the Dolphins. Furthermore, you know that the average Raiders fan will respond with an F you, rather than intelligent debate. My apologies to the resident Raiders fans, you all are the exception, not the rule I'm afraid.......
so you'd rather everybody just sit around and talk about how good your gonna be without any doom and gloom?....thats boring:rolleyes:

Baz
07-23-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by HelpForRicky
It seems like every magazine about football I see right now has the Raiders going to the Superbowl. The Oakland Raiders. The same Oakland Raiders we over-whelmed last year.

Oakland is going to come out and try to do the exact same ting that they did last year. Play mediocre defense, and pass the hell out of the ball. Thats all they can do. The simple fact is, the raiders will have a tough time against any team with a solid front four. Or even a good DE. I believe the Dolphins fit that mould.

I dont even know why i even made this post, I just got sick and tired of seeing raiders raiders raiders. Lets see them play miami right now. No Chance. We would overwhelm them once again.

Im not garuanteeing Miami will win the superbowl, but i am garuanteeing the raiders won't.

Here is the thing with the Raiders. Rice and Brown don't have seperation speed, so they won't beat you with that. Rather, they ake advantage of their superior route-running to gain seperation. On top of that, they both catch anything you throw at them. With that in mind, the best way to defend them, maybe the only way, is press coverage. How many teams in the league have corners that can do this? Miami, Philly, maybe Washington, maybe Buffalo.

Additionally, if you don't have the corners, you can get away with it if you have a great front 7 to bring constant pressure. This throws off Gannon's timing and makes the slant patterns less effective. However, the Raiders have a superb OL, making it tough to do it without blitzing. What happens when you blitz? They kill you with their TE and Charlie Garner. That makes it very risky to blitz. Not many teams can get pressure with just their front 4.

The point of this? The Raiders are the favorites because there are only a few teams in the NFL that can use press coverage, or get constant pressure with their front 4. the Raiders rack up wins because they run up the score and make the opposing offense beat them by throwing the ball. This plays in to their hands because they also have a very good secondary. They are a very good offense. Until someone beats them, they deserve to be favored......

WharfRat
07-23-2003, 11:12 PM
I gotta admit CW ... Baz has a point. You have a knack for turning a good thread into smack.

Hey...haven't we had this conversation before? I think we have.
I was nice about it the first time.... if it continues, I won't even bother saying anything, you'll just be forced to stay in the smack forum

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 11:16 PM
how is that smack?...please tell me...I'm just pulling up the history books like these guys are...no ill will, I'm just saying Raiders have had their share of success against the Fins....man, i'm sorry...

ok, Dolphin's are the greatest thing since sliced bread, is that what you want to hear all day?...everything's not peaches and cream you know....i do this on the jet board too, and they dont take it as smack...if you havent noticed, I picked you guys to win the division

Baz
07-23-2003, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

so you'd rather everybody just sit around and talk about how good your gonna be without any doom and gloom?....thats boring:rolleyes:

No, I'd rather you not argue against fact. FACT. The only time we've lost to the Raiders the last few seasons is the playoffs in 2000. FACT. The Raiders themselves have expressed disinterest in playing us. FACT. This defense is one of maybe 3 that can hold the Raiders offense.

Want to argue who will finish first/last in the division? Fine. Want to argue who the better team is? Fine. Its stupid to ague against fact though......

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 11:22 PM
Originally posted by Bazinet37


No, I'd rather you not argue against fact. FACT. The only time we've lost to the Raiders the last few seasons is the playoffs in 2000. FACT. The Raiders themselves have expressed disinterest in playing us. FACT. This defense is one of maybe 3 that can hold the Raiders offense.

Want to argue who will finish first/last in the division? Fine. Want to argue who the better team is? Fine. Its stupid to ague against fact though......
i'm not arguing how you've fared against them...you won some regular season meetings against them...thats cool, they beat you in an important game tho...the playoffs....and to take it one farther, the game you beat them in last year ended up having no significance because they won their last 2 and got #1, and you guys lost your last 2, and missed the playoffs.....i'm not arguing that you've had success against them..i'm just arguing that the Raiders won the one meaningful game(no smack)

WharfRat
07-23-2003, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

i'm not arguing how you've fared against them...you won some regular season meetings against them...thats cool, they beat you in an important game tho...the playoffs....and to take it one farther, the game you beat them in last year ended up having no significance because they won their last 2 and got #1, and you guys lost your last 2, and missed the playoffs.....i'm not arguing that you've had success against them..i'm just arguing that the Raiders won the one meaningful game(no smack)

The point is, that it was a much different team that beat them in 2002, than the one that lost to them in 2000 (ie - Lamar Smith vs Ricky Williams).
We had their number last year... we knew it...they knew it... and if we would have faced them in the playoffs... we probably would have won. We owned them in that game last year... we didn't just beat them, we shut them down.

CirclingWagons
07-23-2003, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by WharfRat


The point is, that it was a much different team that beat them in 2002, than the one that lost to them in 2000 (ie - Lamar Smith vs Ricky Williams).
We had their number last year... we knew it...they knew it... and if we would have faced them in the playoffs... we probably would have won. We owned them in that game last year... we didn't just beat them, we shut them down.
you won 23-17, and they almost came back on you....you were dominating that game, but like the season, you let up in the second half...and btw...Charlie garner is alot better than Wheatley and Kaufman....Charlie was like 50 yards rushing and receiving away from being only the 3rd 1000-1000 man ever...also, jerry rice is better than andre rison, and jerry porter is better than whoever their 3rd WR was....its all a moot point...could you of beaten the raiders in the playoffs had you made it?....if you were at home, yes...but we'll never know

Marino13 CC
07-23-2003, 11:59 PM
THE Raiders are only older this yr anyway.......LAST yr was thier biggest chance........THEY will be there at the end though

BE GOOD

Samphin
07-24-2003, 12:05 AM
Call me stupid (you guys all do anyway :P ) but I don't see the smack CW is purporting in this thread. At least, I don't see it being any worse than Tatonka, Justafan and to some extent Clumped. However I will say this, if you are going to bring up another teams playoff history in a negative light, don't play the pity me game if it comes back to you. Because after all, Buffalo and their fans really have nothing to make fun of when it comes to playoff impotency other than their own team. Hey don't attack me though, I am just preparing for what fans all over the world say about Buffalo every day :rolleyes: :lol:

WharfRat, Bazinet and Muck, haven't seen anything from you guys in awhile although that is probably due to me not posting... Anyhow, nice to hear from all three of you!

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Samphin
Call me stupid (you guys all do anyway :P ) but I don't see the smack CW is purporting in this thread. At least, I don't see it being any worse than Tatonka, Justafan and to some extent Clumped. However I will say this, if you are going to bring up another teams playoff history in a negative light, don't play the pity me game if it comes back to you. Because after all, Buffalo and their fans really have nothing to make fun of when it comes to playoff impotency other than their own team. Hey don't attack me though, I am just preparing for what fans all over the world say about Buffalo every day :rolleyes: :lol:

WharfRat, Bazinet and Muck, haven't seen anything from you guys in awhile although that is probably due to me not posting... Anyhow, nice to hear from all three of you!
playoff impotency indeed;) :
since 1990: Bills 44, Dolphins 34
Bills 29, Dolphins 10
Bills 37, Dolphins 22
Dolphins 24, Bills 17
may of missed a few here and there...but thats just dolphins-bills

Samphin
07-24-2003, 12:18 AM
MY Favorite stat personally is this

Buffalo 0-4 in Consecutive SuperBowl Appearances

Miami 2 Time World Champion and only team in NFL history to go undefeated.

So I ask you in the tone of Kurt Angle, " Where's your Lombardi Trophy?"

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by Samphin
MY Favorite stat personally is this

Buffalo 0-4 in Consecutive SuperBowl Appearances

Miami 2 Time World Champion and only team in NFL history to go undefeated.

So I ask you in the tone of Kurt Anlge, " Where's your Lombardi Trophy?"
don't have one, as you know...the nfl is what have you done for me lately?...and both bills and dolphins have done nothing

Samphin
07-24-2003, 12:29 AM
Funny how you like to look into the past only when it suits your argument. Sounds like someone still has some healing to do from the early nineties.

Anyhow, enough with the past tomfoolery. I, for one have not seen your predictions, how do you see the Bills doing this season?

Muck
07-24-2003, 12:31 AM
Since 1997, the Phins are 5-1 against Oakland. Yes, they whooped us in the playoff game. But you can't say that last season's meeting wasn't important because, at the time, it was a HUGE game. Whatever happened after the fact is irrelivant. It was Week 15 and it was the most important game to date.

Yeah, that last Bills victory over us came in the Shula era. Come to think of it, that was the last playoff game you won, period!! Talk about impotency. It's been 8.5 years. :lol:

MDFINFAN
07-24-2003, 12:37 AM
CW, very good points, sometimes the truth hurts, you haven't come close to smack in this thread, but you have touch nerves, it's a fine line between feelings of wanting joy and knowing the truth. We haven't gotten the job done with the talented teams we've had. That's not smack, that's fact. We've beaten the last 3 ACF Champs in regular season, only to watch those teams go on to the super bowl, while we sit at home with a more talented team...It sucks, and every time you remind us, it hurts more...That the reality of your comments and why their seen as smack. Sometimes we have to step back and realize that we haven't done anything in awhile and until our team gets us out of this funk, we'll have be able to take the truth as it is, and not charge everyone who makes us face the truth as smack talkers. BTW..0-4 in 4 straight tries is a little tough don't you think, as you can see we feel your pain too.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by Samphin
Funny how you like to look into the past only when it suits your argument. Sounds like someone still has some healing to do from the early nineties.

Anyhow, enough with the past tomfoolery. I, for one have not seen your predictions, how do you see the Bills doing this season?
I said in a previous thread(i believe it was "what games will the Dolphins lose", that i think the fins will go 11-5 winning the east, and Bills will go 10-6 with wildcard

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 12:50 AM
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
CW, very good points, sometimes the truth hurts, you haven't come close to smack in this thread, but you have touch nerves, it's a fine line between feelings of wanting joy and knowing the truth. We haven't gotten the job done with the talented teams we've had. That's not smack, that's fact. We've beaten the last 3 ACF Champs in regular season, only to watch those teams go on to the super bowl, while we sit at home with a more talented team...It sucks, and every time you remind us, it hurts more...That the reality of your comments and why their seen as smack. Sometimes we have to step back and realize that we haven't done anything in awhile and until our team gets us out of this funk, we'll have be able to take the truth as it is, and not charge everyone who makes us face the truth as smack talkers. BTW..0-4 in 4 straight tries is a little tough don't you think, as you can see we feel your pain too.
honestly, you guys aren't going to believe me, but i only feel pain for the Giant one...the other ones we were blown out by far superior teams, the Giant game was winnable, and the way we lost, was unbearable

MDFINFAN
07-24-2003, 12:54 AM
Every year we don't go to the big dance is unbearable, knowing we have a good team.

Dolfan984
07-24-2003, 01:34 AM
Last 3 AFC Champs? Try 5. Denver (though we did lose in the playoffs), Tennesse, Baltimore, New England, and Oakland

Jaj
07-24-2003, 01:52 AM
Wagon boy seems like the Indians stuck something sharp a little too high. Your defending the Raiders? All I can say is you are just writing to piss us off.

Second of all this is a Dolphins board offcourse we should have optimism of the coming season. Look at your Jilly boards!!! SB SB SB that is all I can ever see and we do not flood Jill boards.

RUDEbyallMEANS
07-24-2003, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
We've beaten the last 3 ACF Champs in regular season,

More than that bro... Miami beat the Raiders last year, they went to the SB.. Miami beat the Patriots in 2001 and Pats WON SB.. Miami Beat Baltimore in 2000 and Baltimore won the SB.. Miami beat the Titans and they went to SB in 1999.. Miami beat Denver in week 16 and Denver won the SB in that year..
The last 5 representatives for the AFC in the SB were beat by Miami in the Reg. season in their respective years.. Miami had the talent.. I've been keeping track of all this back when Balti won the SB.. If Miami does not go to the SuperBowl this year, a team that Miami beats in reg. season from AFC will... Last 5 years have proven right so far.. :lol:

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Jaj
Wagon boy seems like the Indians stuck something sharp a little too high. Your defending the Raiders? All I can say is you are just writing to piss us off.

Second of all this is a Dolphins board offcourse we should have optimism of the coming season. Look at your Jilly boards!!! SB SB SB that is all I can ever see and we do not flood Jill boards.
defending the raiders?...no, more like, telling you like it is...The Raiders beat you in the only game that has mattered the last few seasons....if im wrong, prove it please...
btw, that is why i'm not on my own board...who wants to sit around and talk about how great their team's gonna be, and have everyone agree like a bunch of mindless zombies?...happens here, at billszone, ganggreen....everywhere...i just prefer an opposing board because i get a rise out of people like you;)

RUDEbyallMEANS
07-24-2003, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by Dolfan984
Last 3 AFC Champs? Try 5. Denver (though we did lose in the playoffs), Tennesse, Baltimore, New England, and Oakland

Sorry bro.. looks as if though I copied what you said.. but I wrote this as soon as I read MDFINFANS post..

gunn34
07-24-2003, 05:22 AM
Let the "Experts" pick who they want. The Phins just have to go out and do it. It's the only way to shut people up.

goldfish
07-24-2003, 08:41 AM
Having been a "lurker" for a while, it would appear as though CW just like to "stir the pot" to get a rise out of you guys. He's the voice of adversity and he is usually accepted as such until he hits a nerve. Kinda like a dentist.... you know he is the enemy and that makes him a necessary equalizer... until he hits that nerve!
Truth be told... you all agreed that past teams don't dictate the future....any given sunday.

just my .02

-81- McMichael
07-24-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons
...i just prefer an opposing board because i get a rise out of people like you;)

Saying stuff SIMPLY for the sake of getting a rise is considered smack, imo. Such as... suggesting that last year's victory over the Raiders somehow carries less weight because we lost a playoff game to them TWO YEARS AGO! :rolleyes:

C'mon! Forgive me, but that "logic"... is just plain stupid.

Moreover, you're TOTALLY barking up the wrong tree IF what you want is to criticize the 'Phins. Seriously, talk about the Minn. game or the NE game. What killed us in those two games more than anything else was the COACHING and strategy. There are other areas to comment on in those games, too... "special" teams, our nickel and dime coverages, lack of killer instinct, etc.

CW, I'm not criticizing you. I would only suggest (challenge) you... criticize the 'Fins... a little more... critically. Point out stuff that really has some legs to it.

Thanks!

:)

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by -81- McMichael


Saying stuff SIMPLY for the sake of getting a rise is considered smack, imo. Such as... suggesting that last year's victory over the Raiders somehow carries less weight because we lost a playoff game to them TWO YEARS AGO! :rolleyes:

C'mon! Forgive me, but that "logic"... is just plain stupid.

Moreover, you're TOTALLY barking up the wrong tree IF what you want is to criticize the 'Phins. Seriously, talk about the Minn. game or the NE game. What killed us in those two games more than anything else was the COACHING and strategy. There are other areas to comment on in those games, too... "special" teams, our nickel and dime coverages, lack of killer instinct, etc.

CW, I'm not criticizing you. I would only suggest (challenge) you... criticize the 'Fins... a little more... critically. Point out stuff that really has some legs to it.

Thanks!

:)
so, comparing a regular season win(that ended up having no significance) to a playoff game that could have got you to the AFC Championship game for the first time in 10 years..is illogical?...also, The Dolphins came off 2 straight wins, were 9-5, #1 in the AFC, and completely choked down the straetch...you guys win those last 2 games and you end up in the superbowl most likely. You guys need to learn how to win on the road, it's a mental thing, and Wanny has to break down that wall

GazPhin
07-24-2003, 12:52 PM
I have to agree with the wagonmeister that we can't claim to own the Raiders. We beat them, yes. Could've gone the other way without a late INT. It was at home. Had we been in their house how might it have gone (given last season's road record)?

Let's beat them in the AFC Championship game in January before we start the "own you" chant. Oh, and let's hope it's in Miami before the optimism gets outta hand.

;)

For the record I sincerely hope that the Raiders team is past it.

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by GazPhin
I have to agree with the wagonmeister that we can't claim to own the Raiders. We beat them, yes. Could've gone the other way without a late INT. It was at home. Had we been in their house how might it have gone (given last season's road record)?

Let's beat them in the AFC Championship game in January before we start the "own you" chant. Oh, and let's hope it's in Miami before the optimism gets outta hand.

;)

For the record I sincerely hope that the Raiders team is past it.
Don't worry about Oakland, you can count on seeing Buffalo in the playoffs from now on---where they rightfully belong;)

GazPhin
07-24-2003, 12:59 PM
...you'll have to look to someone that's also flying the flag of the tethered bovine :D

-81- McMichael
07-24-2003, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons
You guys need to learn how to win on the road, it's a mental thing, and Wanny has to break down that wall

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. A good critical point. I support it 100%.

However, your logic IS flawed reg. the Raider games (and I'm pointing this out to help - not to argue - just consider the possibilities, first):

You cannot, cannot, cannot go back in hindsight and say "oh, well, but that game didn't "end up" having any significance). That's absurd. Of course it didn't matter... because we WON it!

The victory against the Raiders made us either the #1 or #2 seed going into the playoffs, at that time. Moreover, consider that a LOSS to the Raiders (another AFC opponent that was ALSO vying for a playoff spot - possibly a VERY limited wildcard - because they had plenty of competition from KC and Denver at the time for the AFC West crown)... whew!... anywayz, a loss would have put us in a really BAD situation... at 8-6. Consider that.

So the game DID matter, AT THE TIME... BIG TIME. In a sense, it was exactly like a playoff game... much as the games against Minn. and NE were, too. Yes, I am contending that ALL THREE games should be viewed as "playoff" type games - less so the Minn. game, though, because it was an NFC opponent.

And what does the fact that winning the playoff match with the Raiders and getting us "to the AFC Championship for the first time in 10 years" have to do with anything? It could be 100 years since you last made the AFC Championship game... who cares? For that matter, some teams have never even gotten to the Conf. Championship. So what? Does a long absense make a team's desire/goal of reaching the Championship any more poignant? Why?

If you can prove that then you pick the #'s and I'll buy us a LOTTO ticket for this week's Florida Lotto (75 million!).

Also, please don't belittle the Raiders of 2002, much less the victory over them. They were on a FIVE GAME winning streak and that loss to us was their ONLY LOSS in... COUNT 'EM... 10 games... before they finally lost to Tampa (a team similar to our own, defensively) in the SB.

So yes... (as you said)...

"The Dolphins came off 2 straight wins, were 9-5, #1 in the AFC, and completely choked down the straetch... you guys win (EITHER ONE OF) those last 2 games and you end up in the superbowl most likely."

A much more critical and interesting debate is WHY did we lose those two games and HOW has the team addressed those problems so far in 2003.

I'd let go of insisting that the Raider playoff loss... TWO YEARS AGO... has ANY real significance (different players, star RB now, MUUUUCH better OC, etc). And I, at least, would consider the POSSIBILITY that the victory against the Raiders last year was, at the very least, of "some" import. I mean, really, just go ask them.

I'm done with this. Got to get some work done.

But, seriously, look for arguments/points that have SOME LEGS to support themselves with. Good points support themselves.

PhinPhreak
07-24-2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

defending the raiders?...no, more like, telling you like it is...The Raiders beat you in the only game that has mattered the last few seasons....if im wrong, prove it please...
btw, that is why i'm not on my own board...who wants to sit around and talk about how great their team's gonna be, and have everyone agree like a bunch of mindless zombies?...happens here, at billszone, ganggreen....everywhere...i just prefer an opposing board because i get a rise out of people like you;)

I think Circle has to lay off the viagara, first it's impotence, and then out of jealousy he trys to get a rise out of us. Man oh Man. :lol: :jk: circle.

PhinPhreak
07-24-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by -81- McMichael



The victory against the Raiders made us either the #1 or #2 seed going into the playoffs, at that time. Moreover, consider that a LOSS to the Raiders (another AFC opponent that was ALSO vying for a playoff spot - possibly a VERY limited wildcard - because they had plenty of competition from KC and Denver at the time for the AFC West crown)... whew!... anywayz, a loss would have put us in a really BAD situation... at 8-6. Consider that.

So the game DID matter, AT THE TIME... BIG TIME. In a sense, it was exactly like a playoff game... much as the games against Minn. and NE were, too. Yes, I am contending that ALL THREE games should be viewed as "playoff" type games - less so the Minn. game, though, because it was an NFC opponent.



One Point about the Raider victory people have failed to mention, if for nothing else it kept the Fis from being in the basement of the AFC East, Man it's bad enough that we have to deal with the fact that the Bills Swept the Fins last year but to wind up behind them in the standings too......... Justafan, Tatonka and Circle really would have made things miserable. :lol:

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by PhinPhreak


One Point about the Raider victory people have failed to mention, if for nothing else it kept the Fis from being in the basement of the AFC East, Man it's bad enough that we have to deal with the fact that the Bills Swept the Fins last year but to wind up behind them in the standings too......... Justafan, Tatonka and Circle really would have made things miserable. :lol:
we aim to please;)

PhinPhreak
07-24-2003, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons

we aim to please;)

Well if you (as a Bills fan) aim to please then I guess I'm safe becaue I'm sure your shot will be WIDE RIGHT :roflmao: :jk:

The proceding statement is not intended as smack, any similarity to the statement and actual smack is pure coincidence and nothing more

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by PhinPhreak


Well if you (as a Bills fan) aim to please then I guess I'm safe becaue I'm sure your shot will be WIDE RIGHT :roflmao: :jk:

The proceding statement is not intended as smack, any similarity to the statement and actual smack is pure coincidence and nothing more
that was cold:lol:

Amars
07-24-2003, 05:52 PM
I have a mag Anthelm saying Pitsburgh vs. Eagle in SB

Samphin
07-24-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by PhinPhreak


Well if you (as a Bills fan) aim to please then I guess I'm safe becaue I'm sure your shot will be WIDE RIGHT :roflmao: :jk:

The proceding statement is not intended as smack, any similarity to the statement and actual smack is pure coincidence and nothing more


I crown this post by brother Phinphreak to be Post of the Thread. Never has a post come along within this thread that has so much tact, quick wittingness (its a word, maybe) and best of all, slapping a Bills fan around. I dub thee Phinphreak, KING OF THIS THREAD!

:hail: phinphreak

WharfRat
07-24-2003, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by -81- McMichael


ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. A good critical point. I support it 100%.

However, your logic IS flawed reg. the Raider games (and I'm pointing this out to help - not to argue - just consider the possibilities, first):

You cannot, cannot, cannot go back in hindsight and say "oh, well, but that game didn't "end up" having any significance). That's absurd. Of course it didn't matter... because we WON it!

The victory against the Raiders made us either the #1 or #2 seed going into the playoffs, at that time. Moreover, consider that a LOSS to the Raiders (another AFC opponent that was ALSO vying for a playoff spot - possibly a VERY limited wildcard - because they had plenty of competition from KC and Denver at the time for the AFC West crown)... whew!... anywayz, a loss would have put us in a really BAD situation... at 8-6. Consider that.

So the game DID matter, AT THE TIME... BIG TIME. In a sense, it was exactly like a playoff game... much as the games against Minn. and NE were, too. Yes, I am contending that ALL THREE games should be viewed as "playoff" type games - less so the Minn. game, though, because it was an NFC opponent.

And what does the fact that winning the playoff match with the Raiders and getting us "to the AFC Championship for the first time in 10 years" have to do with anything? It could be 100 years since you last made the AFC Championship game... who cares? For that matter, some teams have never even gotten to the Conf. Championship. So what? Does a long absense make a team's desire/goal of reaching the Championship any more poignant? Why?

If you can prove that then you pick the #'s and I'll buy us a LOTTO ticket for this week's Florida Lotto (75 million!).

Also, please don't belittle the Raiders of 2002, much less the victory over them. They were on a FIVE GAME winning streak and that loss to us was their ONLY LOSS in... COUNT 'EM... 10 games... before they finally lost to Tampa (a team similar to our own, defensively) in the SB.

So yes... (as you said)...

"The Dolphins came off 2 straight wins, were 9-5, #1 in the AFC, and completely choked down the straetch... you guys win (EITHER ONE OF) those last 2 games and you end up in the superbowl most likely."

A much more critical and interesting debate is WHY did we lose those two games and HOW has the team addressed those problems so far in 2003.

I'd let go of insisting that the Raider playoff loss... TWO YEARS AGO... has ANY real significance (different players, star RB now, MUUUUCH better OC, etc). And I, at least, would consider the POSSIBILITY that the victory against the Raiders last year was, at the very least, of "some" import. I mean, really, just go ask them.

I'm done with this. Got to get some work done.

But, seriously, look for arguments/points that have SOME LEGS to support themselves with. Good points support themselves.

Excellent post -81- !!!

So good, in fact, that CW has skipped right by it and responded to the "smack" instead of this one!! :up: Great job!


notice the word smack is in quotation marks

CirclingWagons
07-24-2003, 08:33 PM
wharf, you disabled my access to the main forum:confused: ...what's wrong, was reality a little too much for you all to handle?:lol:

WharfRat
07-24-2003, 08:40 PM
No... it was you calling a member a moron.
That was the last straw dude.

MarinoFan
07-25-2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by CirclingWagons
wharf, you disabled my access to the main forum:confused: ...what's wrong, was reality a little too much for you all to handle?:lol:

:lol::roflmao: