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View Full Version : Which AFC East Team Wins The SB Next... And Why?



Dirtywater
06-01-2007, 01:31 PM
OK, so my Pats have already won it all this century, so my question to you guys is, which AFC East team wins the Super Bowl next, and why.

Try not to be homers here, let's just have a good discussion.

My vote goes to the Jets. I think they are building a good core nucleus and have the potential to win it within 5 years.

FinsNCanes
06-01-2007, 01:37 PM
Patriots..

Unless Brady breaks his dick or something and can't play for years due to depression.

nyjunc
06-01-2007, 01:42 PM
Patriots..

Unless Brady breaks his dick or something and can't play for years due to depression.

He meant from out of the Jets, Phins and Bills.


I hope DW is right.

Mike13
06-01-2007, 01:50 PM
Patriots..

Unless Brady breaks his dick or something and can't play for years due to depression.

You can't break your dick as there is no bone.
You can sprain it though.

FinsNCanes
06-01-2007, 02:26 PM
You can't break your dick as there is no bone.
You can sprain it though.


...

You know what I was getting at.

Shula Come Back!
06-01-2007, 05:09 PM
I'll say the Dolphins and not because they're the next best team in the division, that would probably still be the Jets, but because they have just a good a chance as any. Also because the question is which is the next AFC East team to win the SB. It doesn't mean it's gonna happen anytime soon! The last AFC East team to win the SB before the Pats is the Dolphins! So the only reason I say this is because I don't think any of the other teams in the AFC East are that good (the Jets will be a consistent playoff contender over the next few years) and they Dolphins are building their offense almost completely over. It will either be great in a few years or totally suck as it did last year. They just have to get good before the entire defense retires or it will be a hell of a lot longer!

SpurzN703
06-01-2007, 05:13 PM
Well New England will. Why? B/C they're New England

Crunkcore
06-01-2007, 05:19 PM
Well New England will. Why? B/C they're New England

:yeahthat:

Wagon Circler
06-02-2007, 02:12 AM
I'll take the bills and make a case for the home team.

Both offense and defense have a good core of young players. JP to Lee will sound pretty good for years to come I'm thinking. And Marv Levy has the bills going in the right direction.

big j
06-02-2007, 05:56 PM
until you be the best you have to beat the best, pats hands down.

WestCKoastiN
06-02-2007, 08:01 PM
If not counting the Pats

i say Jets or Phins.

BwanaZulia
06-04-2007, 05:02 PM
OK, so my Pats have already won it all this century, so my question to you guys is, which AFC East team wins the Super Bowl next, and why.

Try not to be homers here, let's just have a good discussion.

My vote goes to the Jets. I think they are building a good core nucleus and have the potential to win it within 5 years.

Ok, I won't be a homer, I will just agree. :)

BZ

FinFan_Est.1984
06-30-2007, 08:12 AM
I'll take the bills and make a case for the home team.

Both offense and defense have a good core of young players. JP to Lee will sound pretty good for years to come I'm thinking. And Marv Levy has the bills going in the right direction.
:sidelol::lol::sidelol:

cnc66
06-30-2007, 08:45 AM
You can't break your dick as there is no bone.
You can sprain it though.

thanks for the anatomy lesson... believe it or not, most of us didn't need that explained, this isn't billszone.

.. if you take the Pats out..they have another one in them imo, then maybe the hated jets. In truth, for the whole division, this next year will tell much. I think all four clubs are headed in the right direction, but the jets could explode. I think Buffalo and Miami are a full season away from that, but it could come early for one or both.
Those that treat Marv with anything but utmost respect are dullards or homers. This years team will really show us if he still has the eye for talent, and unfortunately, I bet he does.

PatriotReign
06-30-2007, 09:26 AM
The Jets. Anyone who says the Phins is basing their choice on hope and fantasy at this point. Their D is strong but they have either an ancient or injured QB and an unproven HC.

GoBills24
06-30-2007, 09:44 AM
:sidelol::lol::sidelol:

You can stop laughing, he didn't say Miami. Read it again.

THeavyweight
06-30-2007, 10:57 AM
Bills are heading the right way
but i say Pats or Jets i dont think Green is the answer for us phins

FinFan_Est.1984
06-30-2007, 12:19 PM
thanks for the anatomy lesson... believe it or not, most of us didn't need that explained, this isn't billszone.

.. if you take the Pats out..they have another one in them imo, then maybe the hated jets. In truth, for the whole division, this next year will tell much. I think all four clubs are headed in the right direction, but the jets could explode. I think Buffalo and Miami are a full season away from that, but it could come early for one or both.
Those that treat Marv with anything but utmost respect are dullards or homers. This years team will really show us if he still has the eye for talent, and unfortunately, I bet he does.

Keep this thread on topic and not about your fellow posters. This is smack and will be monitored as such.

fish920
06-30-2007, 02:47 PM
bills wil probably get there and lose. lol

FinFan_Est.1984
06-30-2007, 03:43 PM
bills wil probably get there and lose. lol

especially with Marv Levy leading the way:lol:

cnc66
07-01-2007, 06:51 AM
especially with Marv Levy leading the way:lol:

Keep this thread civil and on topic. If not, points will begin to be assessed.

NFLRocks
07-01-2007, 06:15 PM
I think the Jets. They are headed in the right direction and Mangini will be a great coach for many years

Stitches
07-02-2007, 12:03 AM
I obviously want to say the fins.

Beyond that I'd like to say the Bills(after the fins) would be most likely to get to the super bowl next(outside the damned Pats). But I think the Jets have the best chance of consistently making the playoffs for a few years to come,and subsequently the next best chance to win it all.

I feel sick for saying that, lol.

Bills2083
07-02-2007, 10:42 AM
The Patriots will win the Superbowl next. Their team is just solid all around. I wouldn't be surprised to see them win it this year

retired opfinistic
07-02-2007, 12:38 PM
The Homer in me says the Phins.

The realist has to say the Jets at this time.

SpurzN703
07-02-2007, 01:40 PM
The Jets. Anyone who says the Phins is basing their choice on hope and fantasy at this point. Their D is strong but they have either an ancient or injured QB and an unproven HC.

So Mangini is already proven?

Dirtywater
07-02-2007, 03:39 PM
So Mangini is already proven?

Well, I do think he deserves more credit than a lot of people give him. I was very impressed with the way he handled the Jets.

Outside of the Kendall situation, both he and Tannenbaum seem to be righting that ship. And, they did make the playoffs.

If Cam can do the same this season I will be just as impressed. It's the NFL and anything can happen.

MadMax1608
07-02-2007, 03:58 PM
My two cents:

The Pats again.

Why?

Well, now that the two whinyest players (Roethlisberger and Manning) have been virtually handed their Super Bowl rings by the NFL, the teams can get back to playing on a semi-even field again, which will put the Pats at the top again, either this year or next.

Just my two cents worth.

3rd and long
07-02-2007, 04:45 PM
The Dolphins. Why? Because we're due.

Deep2Evans
07-02-2007, 07:28 PM
Why do people keep saying the Pats? He meant outside the Pats, so between Miami, Buffalo and the Jets, I think we all know the Pats have the best chance, but he was wondering who after that.

K-Ro25
07-03-2007, 05:47 AM
The Jets IMO. Jets and super bowl contradict each other but I feel were maybe two years away from a legit playoff contender. some variables like what becomes of Kellen Clemens and Chad Pennington but I have no doubt that if we needed a QB we could get one similar to how baltimore got McNair. The D is being built to something scary in a year. We lack a true NT. around that we have Ellis, a young secondary w/ Rhodes, Revis, Dyson and a young kid in Eric Smith who I like a lot. LB's B. Thomas is slowly becoming an established force as a 3-4 OLB. Harris n Vilma on the inside. Still need another OLB. Offense has mangold and brick on the line but needs some improvement, cotch n coles at WR n Leon n TJ at RB. We are maybe an impact player or two from being legit. I wish we got adalius thomas :(

MadMax1608
07-03-2007, 07:42 AM
Why do people keep saying the Pats? He meant outside the Pats, so between Miami, Buffalo and the Jets, I think we all know the Pats have the best chance, but he was wondering who after that.

Yeah, I got that part, however, if the Pats continue to dominate the division every year (which, in my opinion, they will as long as Bob Kraft remains the owner and Belichick remains the head coach), it will be a loooonnngggg time before you see the Bills, the Jets or Miami in even just the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl.

K-Ro25
07-03-2007, 08:14 AM
Yeah, I got that part, however, if the Pats continue to dominate the division every year (which, in my opinion, they will as long as Bob Kraft remains the owner and Belichick remains the head coach), it will be a loooonnngggg time before you see the Bills, the Jets or Miami in even just the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl.
You mean like last year for the Jets or 3 years ago before that?

shastz
07-03-2007, 11:26 AM
You mean like last year for the Jets or 3 years ago before that?

How was it the Jets season ended again? Oh yes I remember, it ended with the largest playoff defeat in Jet history at the hands of who? Oh yes, I remember again, the Patriots. :sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

MadMax1608
07-03-2007, 11:35 AM
How was it the Jets season ended again? Oh yes I remember, it ended with the largest playoff defeat in Jet history at the hands of who? Oh yes, I remember again, the Patriots. :sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:

I rest my case, your honor. :D

K-Ro25
07-03-2007, 12:00 PM
How was it the Jets season ended again? Oh yes I remember, it ended with the largest playoff defeat in Jet history at the hands of who? Oh yes, I remember again, the Patriots. :sidelol::sidelol::sidelol:
It was a close game through 3. We were never suppossed to win that game we fought hard through out. Im not really sure how that is suppossed to hurty when I have a great young head coach n a nice young nucleus:)


I rest my case, your honor. :D
What? You said the the fins bills n jets wouldnt make the playoffs for a long time. That is BS. Were not on the level on a Pats but we are getting there. A two or three years and we will be there.

MadMax1608
07-03-2007, 03:10 PM
What? You said the the fins bills n jets wouldnt make the playoffs for a long time. That is BS. Were not on the level on a Pats but we are getting there. A two or three years and we will be there.

K, I'll give you that one. I'll modify what I said. Since the Bills, Fins and Jets all have to go through the Pats (usually) to make it to the Super Bowl, it will be a while before any of them make it that far. Particularly with the receiving core we have this year.

Let me put it this way: If the Pats were a lesser team, I'd put my money on the Jets to make it to the Big Game within three years.

K-Ro25
07-03-2007, 03:43 PM
K, I'll give you that one. I'll modify what I said. Since the Bills, Fins and Jets all have to go through the Pats (usually) to make it to the Super Bowl, it will be a while before any of them make it that far. Particularly with the receiving core we have this year.

Let me put it this way: If the Pats were a lesser team, I'd put my money on the Jets to make it to the Big Game within three years.
True. Hopefully I can get a belichick retirement after this year (one last big run). Just wishful thinking.

Bills Own You!
07-04-2007, 12:58 AM
It's kind of hard to avoid the homerism with threads like this. Obviously anybody with an ounce of football knowledge realizes the patriots of this decade are one of the greatest dynasties in any professional sports league, but all good things do come to an end at some point.

So if we are picking the next afc east team to win a superbowl, I will of course say that we are going to do it assuming:

1) Losman truly is a legit franchise QB
2) Lee Evans stays in buffalo long term
3) Marshawn Lynch turns out to be the real deal
4) And most importantly...we find a way to beat the freaking patriots because we are the only division team that can't seem to catch a break against them and have lost 7 straight againt them. :fire:

GoBills24
07-04-2007, 01:18 AM
So if we are picking the next afc east team to win a superbowl, I will of course say that we are going to do it assuming:

1) Losman truly is a legit franchise QB
2) Lee Evans stays in buffalo long term
3) Marshawn Lynch turns out to be the real deal
4) And most importantly...we find a way to beat the freaking patriots because we are the only division team that can't seem to catch a break against them and have lost 7 straight againt them. :fire:

Before anyone jumps on this, and makes it into a 7 page thread, I'll point out one word.

MadMax1608
07-04-2007, 03:44 PM
4) And most importantly...we find a way to beat the freaking patriots because we are the only division team that can't seem to catch a break against them and have lost 7 straight against them. :fire:

That's the key, and that just reinforces my point. Until the Pats become a lesser team, the other three teams will have a very hard time getting through them. It could be years until that happens. So even to speculate at this point in time which team will go to the Big Game after beating the Patriots to get there is just that: speculation.

But who knows? Perhaps a minor miracle will happen (like half the Patriots coming down with a case of broken legs after game 6) and the Pats won't make it to the playoffs. Something like that happens, I'm betting on the Jets.

Dors156
07-04-2007, 04:05 PM
We all know the patriots will win next but out of the three it could be miami(trying not to be a homer) because they are in the position the ravens were in in 06. The ravens were a good QB away from major success and thats how miami is.They have a top 5 defense and they do have good recivers that have the potential for greatness ala chambers has the pro bowl potential if he sticks with one QB. The jets i have a weird feeling for them. Last year was a suprise year from the jets. They came out of no where with a rookie head coach and pennington played great. But this year im not sure whats going to happen. If they do well this year too then i think they will be the next but if they dont do as well then they wont be. The bills lost alot of their defensive stars so that takes a hit. Their offense is young but will be good in some time. I dont think they will be the nex because obviously the pats will probably get it this year. Just my opinion.

TBW12
07-05-2007, 03:16 AM
We all know the patriots will win next but out of the three it could be miami(trying not to be a homer) because they are in the position the ravens were in in 06. The ravens were a good QB away from major success and thats how miami is.They have a top 5 defense and they do have good recivers that have the potential for greatness ala chambers has the pro bowl potential if he sticks with one QB. The jets i have a weird feeling for them. Last year was a suprise year from the jets. They came out of no where with a rookie head coach and pennington played great. But this year im not sure whats going to happen. If they do well this year too then i think they will be the next but if they dont do as well then they wont be. The bills lost alot of their defensive stars so that takes a hit. Their offense is young but will be good in some time. I dont think they will be the nex because obviously the pats will probably get it this year. Just my opinion.


I really don't see the Ravens comparison at all. The Ravens were a perennial playoff team that had a bad 2005 and still had a very talented nucleus in Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, Chris McCallister, Adalius Thomas, Bart Scott, Jamal Lewis, Todd Heap and Jonathan Ogden. The Dolphins don't have near that much talent and haven't been a playoff team since 2001.

MadMax1608
07-05-2007, 11:04 AM
They have a top 5 defense and they do have good recivers that have the potential for greatness.........

They may have the potential for greatness, but that potential won't reveal itself overnight. That still leaves, in my opinion, the Jets as the top team in the AFC East (assuming there was no such thing as the NE Patriots).

Mr.Right
07-05-2007, 11:06 AM
Before anyone jumps on this, and makes it into a 7 page thread, I'll point out one word.

yeah....every year I just 'assume' that the Bills are gonna suck....and i'm usually 'Right'! :D

rdhstlr23
07-05-2007, 04:06 PM
I don't understand where all this Patriots will continue to roll this division for "years"...I'll give you some reasons why this could be the last year(s) of Patriots stranglehold atop the division...

Tedy Bruschi 34 yrs old
Roosevelt Colvin 30 yrs old
Kevin Faulk 31 yrs old
Rodney Harrison 35 yrs old
Artrell Hawkins 31 yrs old
Tory James 34 yrs old
Randy Moss 30 yrs old
Stephen Neal 31 yrs old
Chad Scott 33 yrs old
Junior Seau 38 yrs old
Adalius Thomas 30 yrs old
Mike Vrabel 32 yrs old

That's a ton of age. To expect those guys to continue to play at the level they've played at the last 5 yrs would be a pretty imposing task to complete. These New England Patriots remind me a lot of the New York Yankees. Following a tough loss (Patriots collapse to the Colts, Yankees loss to D-Backs game 7), they forgo the principle they used to build their franchise (build within from the draft, sign driven role players, or solid priced veteran leadership) and start a spending spree trying to go for that last run (Moss, Stallworth, Thomas, etc. for the Pats and Giambi, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, etc. for the Yankees). It changes the team chemistry concept and really puts the salary cap situation in a flux. Luckily, in football when you cut guys you might not have to pay for it as much as you do in baseball. Still, I don't see the Patriots winning the Super Bowl this year and I certainly don't see them standing atop the division for the next "several" years. The talent level in this division is becoming very good, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this division turn out like it did a decade ago where 3/4 teams compete for a chance at the playoffs.

To call the Jets and Dolphins "lesser teams" isn't all that correct either. While the Patriots, might look like the most dominant team on paper because of signings, I think we'll see this season that they aren't that better by such a wide and vast margin as you proclaim. I expect the Patriots to win the division this year, but I'm definitely not convinced they'll do it for years to come.

RANDOM HERO
07-05-2007, 07:39 PM
^ Well said.

TBW12
07-05-2007, 11:54 PM
I don't understand where all this Patriots will continue to roll this division for "years"...I'll give you some reasons why this could be the last year(s) of Patriots stranglehold atop the division...

Tedy Bruschi 34 yrs old
Roosevelt Colvin 30 yrs old
Kevin Faulk 31 yrs old
Rodney Harrison 35 yrs old
Artrell Hawkins 31 yrs old
Tory James 34 yrs old
Randy Moss 30 yrs old
Stephen Neal 31 yrs old
Chad Scott 33 yrs old
Junior Seau 38 yrs old
Adalius Thomas 30 yrs old
Mike Vrabel 32 yrs old

That's a ton of age. To expect those guys to continue to play at the level they've played at the last 5 yrs would be a pretty imposing task to complete. These New England Patriots remind me a lot of the New York Yankees. Following a tough loss (Patriots collapse to the Colts, Yankees loss to D-Backs game 7), they forgo the principle they used to build their franchise (build within from the draft, sign driven role players, or solid priced veteran leadership) and start a spending spree trying to go for that last run (Moss, Stallworth, Thomas, etc. for the Pats and Giambi, Sheffield, Kevin Brown, etc. for the Yankees). It changes the team chemistry concept and really puts the salary cap situation in a flux. Luckily, in football when you cut guys you might not have to pay for it as much as you do in baseball. Still, I don't see the Patriots winning the Super Bowl this year and I certainly don't see them standing atop the division for the next "several" years. The talent level in this division is becoming very good, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this division turn out like it did a decade ago where 3/4 teams compete for a chance at the playoffs.

To call the Jets and Dolphins "lesser teams" isn't all that correct either. While the Patriots, might look like the most dominant team on paper because of signings, I think we'll see this season that they aren't that better by such a wide and vast margin as you proclaim. I expect the Patriots to win the division this year, but I'm definitely not convinced they'll do it for years to come.


And here is why they will continue to win
Tom Brady 29
Logan Mankins 25
Dan Koppen 27
Nick Kaczur 27
Ben Watson 26
Laurence Maroney 22
Chad Jackson 22
Richard Seymour 27
Vince Wilfork 25
Ty Warren 26
Eugene Wilson 27
Asante Samuel 26
Ellis Hobbs 24
Brandon Meriweather 23

Everyone but Jackson is a starter and only Asante Samuel's future with the team is in question. Of the players you named, 5 aren't even starters.

retired opfinistic
07-06-2007, 09:00 AM
And here is why they will continue to win
Tom Brady 29
Logan Mankins 25
Dan Koppen 27
Nick Kaczur 27
Ben Watson 26
Laurence Maroney 22
Chad Jackson 22
Richard Seymour 27
Vince Wilfork 25
Ty Warren 26
Eugene Wilson 27
Asante Samuel 26
Ellis Hobbs 24
Brandon Meriweather 23

Everyone but Jackson is a starter and only Asante Samuel's future with the team is in question. Of the players you named, 5 aren't even starters.
Once BB retires after this year who will hold the nucleus of the team together? FA will pick it apart in the next couple years.

rdhstlr23
07-06-2007, 10:43 AM
And here is why they will continue to win
Tom Brady 29
Logan Mankins 25
Dan Koppen 27
Nick Kaczur 27
Ben Watson 26
Laurence Maroney 22
Chad Jackson 22
Richard Seymour 27
Vince Wilfork 25
Ty Warren 26
Eugene Wilson 27
Asante Samuel 26
Ellis Hobbs 24
Brandon Meriweather 23

Everyone but Jackson is a starter and only Asante Samuel's future with the team is in question. Of the players you named, 5 aren't even starters.

Merriweather isn't a starter yet. But, that is nit-picking. Other than Tom Brady and Dan Koppen, where are the leaders? For years, the picture of the Patriots has been Tedy Bruschi in the middle, or Rodney Harrison's fire, or Mike Vrabel's versatility and big plays, and of course Mr. Brady. That's a lot of turnover, especially with all your leaders aging. Again, it's just my opinion, but those things will hurt. I think it's a tall task to just say you all will react so easily to the change. Not to mention, when has a team ever been the head of a division for 10-12 yrs in this league? Doing something that's never been done before is an even taller task.

TBW12
07-06-2007, 12:59 PM
Merriweather isn't a starter yet. But, that is nit-picking. Other than Tom Brady and Dan Koppen, where are the leaders? For years, the picture of the Patriots has been Tedy Bruschi in the middle, or Rodney Harrison's fire, or Mike Vrabel's versatility and big plays, and of course Mr. Brady. That's a lot of turnover, especially with all your leaders aging. Again, it's just my opinion, but those things will hurt. I think it's a tall task to just say you all will react so easily to the change. Not to mention, when has a team ever been the head of a division for 10-12 yrs in this league? Doing something that's never been done before is an even taller task.


Vrabel's probably got a good 4 years left in him. Plus there's always time for someone else to step up and become a leader. I'd consider Richard Seymour a leader. You have to remember, Lawyer Milloy was considered a leader, as was Ty Law, Willie McGinest and Ted Johnson. I think they've done pretty well without those guys.

MadMax1608
07-06-2007, 03:50 PM
Not to mention, when has a team ever been the head of a division for 10-12 yrs in this league? Doing something that's never been done before is an even taller task.

Let's also keep in mind the Patriots plan to win their first Super Bowl was a five year plan. They completed it four years early. Which was why they won two more afterwards. I think they'll have a few more years left of domination and then it'll be over.

rdhstlr23
07-08-2007, 05:14 PM
Let's also keep in mind the Patriots plan to win their first Super Bowl was a five year plan. They completed it four years early. Which was why they won two more afterwards. I think they'll have a few more years left of domination and then it'll be over.

They haven't been dominate the last 2 years.

MadMax1608
07-09-2007, 01:46 PM
They haven't been dominate the last 2 years.

You left out the part about "except for the three Superbowl wins in four years". I'd call that domination.:kick:

SpurzN703
07-09-2007, 05:56 PM
You left out the part about "except for the three Superbowl wins in four years". I'd call that domination.:kick:

It's a 'what have you done for me lately' world man. It sucks but that's how it is. Live it up while you can, b/c it won't last forever

baalworship
07-09-2007, 07:29 PM
Well out of the teams that are not the Pats I would have to say Bills.

The hardest piece of the puzzle to find is the quarterback and Buffalo is farther ahead in this than either Miami or New York.

Both Miami and New York have talented prospects but they haven't done anything yet. JP Losman has been playing against NFL competition for 2 years going on 3. Add to that his rapid improvement last year in both poise and accuracy and Buffalo could well have the quarterback they have been looking for since Kelly.

Other pieces of the Buffalo offense:

Left Tackle: Jason Peters Would probably go top 3 if he were to re-enter the NFL draft. Absolute freak of nature that started out as tight end but is now playing left tackle. Could be a Pro-Bowler this year.

Left Guard: Derrick Dockery Massive road-grader that gives 100% every snap. Best guard Bills have had since Ruben Brown left. Next to Peters will give Buffalo scary left side. Has not peaked yet and why Bills made massive contract offer.

Wide Receiver: Lee Evans Could end up being best Bills receiver EVER. Already put up Pro-Bowl worthy effort last year could actually top that this year. Reminds some of a young Marvin Harrison or Torry Holt. Has not peaked yet.

Running back: Marshawn Lynch: Slightly behind A Peterson by Bills scouts only because of breakaway speed. In terms of versatility, shiftiness, and vision might outperform AP in NFL. Will add extra dimension to Bills offense. Poor man's Marshall Faulk.

Offensive Coordinator: Steve Fairchild

One of the most highly regarded up and coming coordinators in the NFL. Many believe he will be a head coach someday. Will bring Rams-esque feel to Buffalo with some power football mixed in.

In order to win a SuperBowl you need all your talent to peak at the same time. Obviously any of these players could regress or never realize their potential. But if they all improve and realize their talent at the same time...

shastz
07-10-2007, 03:55 PM
And here is why they will continue to win
Tom Brady 29
Logan Mankins 25
Dan Koppen 27
Nick Kaczur 27
Ben Watson 26
Laurence Maroney 22
Chad Jackson 22
Richard Seymour 27
Vince Wilfork 25
Ty Warren 26
Eugene Wilson 27
Asante Samuel 26
Ellis Hobbs 24
Brandon Meriweather 23





Everyone but Jackson is a starter and only Asante Samuel's future with the team is in question. Of the players you named, 5 aren't even starters.

Now why did you have to go and ruin Phin fans hopes and Dreams :sidelol:.

rdhstlr23
07-10-2007, 05:07 PM
Now why did you have to go and ruin Phin fans hopes and Dreams :sidelol:.

Didn't ruin my hopes and dreams at all...I haven't seen a Super Bowl team from the AFC EAST the last two year and I don't plan on seeing one this year either.

TBW12
07-10-2007, 06:46 PM
Didn't ruin my hopes and dreams at all...I haven't seen a Super Bowl team from the AFC EAST the last two year and I don't plan on seeing one this year either.


So, tell me ,why aren't you watching football in 2007?

Dirtywater
07-11-2007, 05:45 PM
Well out of the teams that are not the Pats I would have to say Bills.

The hardest piece of the puzzle to find is the quarterback and Buffalo is farther ahead in this than either Miami or New York.

Both Miami and New York have talented prospects but they haven't done anything yet.

Well, if Pennington hasn't done anything yet, then Losman isn't even on the list. When healthy, and he has been of late, Penny is a very good QB, and is far from a "prospect."

nyjunc
07-12-2007, 06:06 AM
The hardest piece of the puzzle to find is the quarterback and Buffalo is farther ahead in this than either Miami or New York.

What????:lol: Losman isn't close to Chad.

BwanaZulia
07-12-2007, 04:52 PM
Well, if Pennington hasn't done anything yet, then Losman isn't even on the list. When healthy, and he has been of late, Penny is a very good QB, and is far from a "prospect."

Dirtywater!

Yeah, while Loseman might still be a project with huge upside (I personally have not seen it) Chad has proven, that when healthy, he can lead his team to wins and playoffs (although not a lot of wins in the playoffs).

BZ

GoBills24
07-12-2007, 05:08 PM
Dirtywater!

Yeah, while Loseman might still be a project with huge upside (I personally have not seen it)

Pop in a tape of the 2nd Jets game, the Jacksonville game, the Miami game, and the Houston game, among others.

:wink:

nyjunc
07-13-2007, 06:44 AM
Pop in a tape of the 2nd Jets game, the Jacksonville game, the Miami game, and the Houston game, among others.

:wink:

Yeah, what's the point? he led you to 7 wins, Chad off 2 shoulder surgeries led us to 10 and every year he's been healthy we've made the postseason.

GoBills24
07-13-2007, 11:53 AM
Yeah, what's the point? he led you to 7 wins,

What I said had zero to do with Chad, first off. So I don't know where you're going with that one based on the comment I made.

Second of all, BZ said he didn't see the upside of JP that others see. I suggested he take a look at the games I listed, and he'll see why Losman has a great upside.

And what do you mean he led us to 7 wins? Is it his job to stop the run? Cover receivers? Make tackles? The 7-9 record, which was an improvement over 2005, was not all on Losman.

rdhstlr23
07-13-2007, 12:23 PM
What I said had zero to do with Chad, first off. So I don't know where you're going with that one based on the comment I made.

Second of all, BZ said he didn't see the upside of JP that others see. I suggested he take a look at the games I listed, and he'll see why Losman has a great upside.

And what do you mean he led us to 7 wins? Is it his job to stop the run? Cover receivers? Make tackles? The 7-9 record, which was an improvement over 2005, was not all on Losman.

Very Well Put!!:kick:

I try and argue this all the time---a few arguments wth NYJunc. Why the QB is given the props for wins and losses is beyond me....especially in the ultimate team game. Is he a major proponent in the win? Yes. Moreso than other positions? Yes. But, is the QB the direct correlation to wins and losses? No. We won 5 games in a row, with Joey Harrington having a QB rating over 70 in one of those!!

retired opfinistic
07-13-2007, 12:24 PM
:jt0323:

BwanaZulia
07-13-2007, 12:58 PM
Very Well Put!!:kick:

I try and argue this all the time---a few arguments wth NYJunc. Why the QB is given the props for wins and losses is beyond me....especially in the ultimate team game. Is he a major proponent in the win? Yes. Moreso than other positions? Yes. But, is the QB the direct correlation to wins and losses? No. We won 5 games in a row, with Joey Harrington having a QB rating over 70 in one of those!!

So I guess the Dolphins didn't really need a QB to keep them out of the playoffs for 5 years eh?

BZ

BleedinGreenNC
07-13-2007, 07:09 PM
The Homer in me says the Phins.

The realist has to say the Jets at this time.


I have to quote this in a sig somewhere!!:kick:

BleedinGreenNC
07-13-2007, 07:10 PM
What I said had zero to do with Chad, first off. So I don't know where you're going with that one based on the comment I made.

Second of all, BZ said he didn't see the upside of JP that others see. I suggested he take a look at the games I listed, and he'll see why Losman has a great upside.

And what do you mean he led us to 7 wins? Is it his job to stop the run? Cover receivers? Make tackles? The 7-9 record, which was an improvement over 2005, was not all on Losman.


Touchy??

Sabres!:sidelol:

GoBills24
07-13-2007, 08:01 PM
Touchy??



Nope, not at all. I was just wondering where he got Chad Pennington from my post about Losman. I didn't know where it was coming from.

Similar to the 'Sabres' comment in this thread. :)

Scout72
07-13-2007, 09:46 PM
None!:kick:

BwanaZulia
07-14-2007, 06:12 AM
Nope, not at all. I was just wondering where he got Chad Pennington from my post about Losman. I didn't know where it was coming from.

Go back and read the post by Dirtywater. He was talking about JP and Chad and that is how I brought it up.

Again, it will be interesting to see if JP without a proven runner can actually win more than half the games this year.

I don't see it, but if you do that is great and good luck.

BZ

retired opfinistic
07-14-2007, 09:18 AM
I have to quote this in a sig somewhere!!:kick:I was doped up on Thorazine at the time. :goof:

nyjunc
07-14-2007, 10:44 AM
What I said had zero to do with Chad, first off. So I don't know where you're going with that one based on the comment I made.

Second of all, BZ said he didn't see the upside of JP that others see. I suggested he take a look at the games I listed, and he'll see why Losman has a great upside.

And what do you mean he led us to 7 wins? Is it his job to stop the run? Cover receivers? Make tackles? The 7-9 record, which was an improvement over 2005, was not all on Losman.

it's his job to WIN! Since 2002 the Jets are 31-23 w/ Chad as the starter w/ 3 PO appearances and a div title while w/o him we are 8-19. In 2005 we were 4-12 after Chad went down in week 3 then he comes abck and we win 10. Cha is a winner, JP has alot to prove in that area and in '02 our D was 14th in points allowed and 24th overall while last year Buf's D was 10th in PA and 19th overall yet Chad led us to a div title- the ONLY QB besides Brady to have a div title since 2001.


Very Well Put!!:kick:

I try and argue this all the time---a few arguments wth NYJunc. Why the QB is given the props for wins and losses is beyond me....especially in the ultimate team game. Is he a major proponent in the win? Yes. Moreso than other positions? Yes. But, is the QB the direct correlation to wins and losses? No. We won 5 games in a row, with Joey Harrington having a QB rating over 70 in one of those!!

Why is it when Chad plays we tend to win and when he doesn't we tend to lose? QBs are judged mainly on wins and Chad wins when he plays and the Jets lose when he doesn't.


Nope, not at all. I was just wondering where he got Chad Pennington from my post about Losman. I didn't know where it was coming from.

Similar to the 'Sabres' comment in this thread. :)

I brought up Chad b/c we were discussing the QBs. Another poster said "The hardest piece of the puzzle to find is the quarterback and Buffalo is farther ahead in this than either Miami or New York. " That's where Chad comes in.

GoBills24
07-14-2007, 07:53 PM
it's his job to WIN!

No, it's the team's job to win. Offense, defense, special teams. It's never one player's job.


Why is it when Chad plays we tend to win and when he doesn't we tend to lose? QBs are judged mainly on wins and Chad wins when he plays and the Jets lose when he doesn't.

Maybe the TEAM gets a boost? To my knowledge, Chad doesn't play on defense, cover kicks, and other things needed to win the game.


Another poster said "The hardest piece of the puzzle to find is the quarterback and Buffalo is farther ahead in this than either Miami or New York. " That's where Chad comes in.

Wasn't me...all I gave was a list of games in which Losman shows his upside, the upside in which was said seen absent. That's all. :)

nyjunc
07-15-2007, 09:30 AM
No, it's the team's job to win. Offense, defense, special teams. It's never one player's job.


QBs are judged on wins especially when JP had a capable team around him. He didn't have 1984 Bills talent around him.


Maybe the TEAM gets a boost? To my knowledge, Chad doesn't play on defense, cover kicks, and other things needed to win the game.



maybe but why doesn't Buf get a boost when JP plays?


Wasn't me...all I gave was a list of games in which Losman shows his upside, the upside in which was said seen absent. That's all.


Sorry for the confusion.

GoBills24
07-15-2007, 11:38 PM
QBs are judged on wins especially when JP had a capable team around him. He didn't have 1984 Bills talent around him.

True, but it wasn't exactly 1991 Bills talent either. :wink:

Thank goodness for the offensive line being addressed, and getting a TB who can catch.


maybe but why doesn't Buf get a boost when JP plays?

As opposed to?

Also, it's not like the team wasn't competitive against top teams. We were two points away from beating New England, 3 away from San Diego, and 1 away @ Indianapolis. The team was always ready to play.

Losman caught fire the second half of the season, and me, personally, I expect it to continue, with having the same coach, offensive coordinator, and set of WR's returning. More continuity, ya know?

rdhstlr23
07-16-2007, 02:25 PM
So I guess the Dolphins didn't really need a QB to keep them out of the playoffs for 5 years eh?

BZ

Nope. Would it help to have Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? Of course. But, would you say Trent Dilfer deserves all the recognition for leading the Ravens to a SB win? Or what about David Garrard for leading the Jags to the playoffs 2 years ago, or how about Damon Huard and the Chiefs last year? Would you say that the reason those teams did what they did was mainly due to the QB play? Ya, it contributed, but it wasn't the sole or main reason. That Ravens defense had a lot to do to help it. Fred Taylor, the Jaguars defense, and a very weak schedule had a hand in their run. Larry Johnson and an improved defense, while making sure Huard wouldn't lose games allowed the Chiefs to be successful.

Every player is just as important as the next---that's the general idea of a team.

BwanaZulia
07-16-2007, 04:27 PM
Nope. Would it help to have Peyton Manning or Tom Brady? Of course. But, would you say Trent Dilfer deserves all the recognition for leading the Ravens to a SB win? Or what about David Garrard for leading the Jags to the playoffs 2 years ago, or how about Damon Huard and the Chiefs last year? Would you say that the reason those teams did what they did was mainly due to the QB play? Ya, it contributed, but it wasn't the sole or main reason. That Ravens defense had a lot to do to help it. Fred Taylor, the Jaguars defense, and a very weak schedule had a hand in their run. Larry Johnson and an improved defense, while making sure Huard wouldn't lose games allowed the Chiefs to be successful.

Every player is just as important as the next---that's the general idea of a team.

Thanks for schooling me on teams.

Sure, if the rest of your team is top notch, you can carry another weaker link, but the Bills aren't good enough to carry JP and JP isn't good enough to carry the Bills.

BZ

rdhstlr23
07-16-2007, 04:34 PM
Thanks for schooling me on teams.

Sure, if the rest of your team is top notch, you can carry another weaker link, but the Bills aren't good enough to carry JP and JP isn't good enough to carry the Bills.

BZ

I don't know know if that was meant to be sarcastic, but being a generally nice guy, I'll assume that you weren't.

I wasn't saying that it in particular to the Bills. I was saying it that I don't understand why some people lump the successess/failures of teams and directly tie them to QB play---it just isn't always the case.

Lee evans83
07-16-2007, 04:35 PM
Thanks for schooling me on teams.

Sure, if the rest of your team is top notch, you can carry another weaker link, but the Bills aren't good enough to carry JP and JP isn't good enough to carry the Bills.

BZ

But JP isnt bad enough to have to be carried by the bills and the rest of the team isnt bad enough to have to be carried by JP. Like the Jets, Pennington cant carry the team on his own and the rest of the team isnt carrying Pennington

retired opfinistic
07-16-2007, 04:39 PM
I don't know know if that was meant to be sarcastic, but being a generally nice guy, I'll assume that you weren't.:lol:

He's onto you BZ!

rdhstlr23
07-16-2007, 04:39 PM
But JP isnt bad enough to have to be carried by the bills and the rest of the team isnt bad enough to have to be carried by JP. Like the Jets, Pennington cant carry the team on his own and the rest of the team isnt carrying Pennington

I think the Jets are just a good "team". In every sense of the word, I think do all the things that characterize what team's are supposed to do. I don't think Chad is the greatest or even one of the best QBs---and that is tough because I loved watching him play at Marshall and wish he was a Dolphin---but his best quality is that Jets team generally believes when he is playing they can beat whomever. Isn't that really the type of guy you want leading your team?

I'd take him over McNabb, Bulger, Hasselbeck, and many other QB's that headline the "upper-echelon of QBs".

BwanaZulia
07-17-2007, 08:26 AM
But JP isnt bad enough to have to be carried by the bills and the rest of the team isnt bad enough to have to be carried by JP. Like the Jets, Pennington cant carry the team on his own and the rest of the team isnt carrying Pennington

But unlike the Bills, the Jets have had winning seasons and been to the playoffs in the last 5 years.

BZ

Iroquois Joe
07-17-2007, 10:40 PM
But unlike the Bills, the Jets have had winning seasons and been to the playoffs in the last 5 years.

BZ

True, the Jets were the better team, had a better front office and better coaching. That translates into post season appearences.

At this point in time there isn't much seperating the Jets and Bills talent wise, in fact they are closer than you may want to admit. That includes coaching.

Oh Wait,:smackhead blasphemy, I forgot we are talking the Man-Genious here. Belichicks mini me.

Talk is cheap in July, lets get through a couple of preseason games at least before sounding off like you know whats in store for 07.

Jets81
07-18-2007, 09:42 AM
Talk is cheap in July, lets get through a couple of preseason games at least before sounding off like you know whats in store for 07.

Talk is pretty much all you do on a message board. Nobody knows whats in store for there team in the coming season, but we can speculate based on recent history. That being the case, the Jets seam like the most likely team to win the next SB from the AFC east barring the Pats.

I agree that we're not head and shoulders above anyone in the division talent wise, but coaching is what makes your talent shine. I think we have an advantage over the Phins and Bills in that department at this point.

Scott Pioli
07-19-2007, 04:00 PM
The problem with Buffalo, Miami, and the NYJ is none of them have the big time QB to take them to the promised land. Of the three, the Jets probably have the best in Pennington, but thats not saying much.

To me, all three are stuck in limbo, not good enough to make a run and not bad enough to get a shot at the next great QB. Of course, if any of them get lucky and steal the next Tom Brady, they move to the head of the class.

I like what Buffalo is doing to be honest. If they move to LA or sell to an owner who will spend a ton of money to compete with Kraft, my money is on them..

Dirtywater
07-19-2007, 04:07 PM
The problem with Buffalo, Miami, and the NYJ is none of them have the big time QB to take them to the promised land. Of the three, the Jets probably have the best in Pennington, but thats not saying much.

To me, all three are stuck in limbo, not good enough to make a run and not bad enough to get a shot at the next great QB. Of course, if any of them get lucky and steal the next Tom Brady, they move to the head of the class.

I like what Buffalo is doing to be honest. If they move to LA or sell to an owner who will spend a ton of money to compete with Kraft, my money is on them.

I think Penny can take the Jets all the way provided he stays healthy. While he is no Peyton Manning (or Brady for that matter...), Penny has the skills to make that team win. They have stockpiled enough talent IMHO to win it all.

The hardest part for the Jets is our division. The Bills and Fins are improving as well, so in addition to the Pats, the Jets face a tough road ahead. They are our number one challenge at the moment. They played us tough.

Iroquois Joe
07-19-2007, 09:07 PM
Talk is pretty much all you do on a message board. Nobody knows whats in store for there team in the coming season, but we can speculate based on recent history. That being the case, the Jets seam like the most likely team to win the next SB from the AFC east barring the Pats.

I agree that we're not head and shoulders above anyone in the division talent wise, but coaching is what makes your talent shine. I think we have an advantage over the Phins and Bills in that department at this point.

All true Jets81. I come here to read the talk mostly. There is a good representation of the division on this site and usually good posts. But pretty well all I have read on the national media about the Bills looks like they may have done their research from old press clippings from 05 & 06. Then again we all know our own teams better than rivals, that includes most news hacks.

Yeah, coaching is what brings out the talent, uses it correctly and makes it shine. Your right there. I just happen to think that the Bills coaching is flying under the radar too. (like most everything else about the 07 team).

Thats not to take anything away from Mangenius, or whatever the local pet name is for him. He has earned his rookie year bragging rights.

Jets81
07-19-2007, 11:08 PM
I think Penny can take the Jets all the way provided he stays healthy. While he is no Peyton Manning (or Brady for that matter...), Penny has the skills to make that team win.

Oddly enough I disagree with this statement. Pennington is the kind of guy that by limiting his mistakes he keeps his team in the game. I guess my issue is more with the word "make". When I think of something like that, I picture what Manning did to us in our game with the Colts last season. He made his team win that game by marching his offense down the field to score everytime is seemed like the momentum had shifted our way.

Manning throws 2 picks but it's ok because he threw 3 td's. Pennington throws 2 picks and we're in serious trouble. It's not that I don't believe the Jets would be capable of winning a SB with CP running the offense, it's just that he's not the kind of QB that can lead your team back from a second half deficit of a couple of scores. Even more so against a quality defense.

If he stays healthy and his arm strength has improved a bit, watch out. Jones should give him some breathing room and with the weapons he has a WR he could turn in to that guy that "makes" his team win games. Here's hoping thats the case.

nyjunc
07-20-2007, 05:48 AM
Oddly enough I disagree with this statement. Pennington is the kind of guy that by limiting his mistakes he keeps his team in the game. I guess my issue is more with the word "make". When I think of something like that, I picture what Manning did to us in our game with the Colts last season. He made his team win that game by marching his offense down the field to score everytime is seemed like the momentum had shifted our way.

Manning throws 2 picks but it's ok because he threw 3 td's. Pennington throws 2 picks and we're in serious trouble. It's not that I don't believe the Jets would be capable of winning a SB with CP running the offense, it's just that he's not the kind of QB that can lead your team back from a second half deficit of a couple of scores. Even more so against a quality defense.

If he stays healthy and his arm strength has improved a bit, watch out. Jones should give him some breathing room and with the weapons he has a WR he could turn in to that guy that "makes" his team win games. Here's hoping thats the case.


In that same game Chad was marching us up and down the field as well, it was easy tos ee the last team with a legit possesssion was going to win that game and Indy won it. Chad also was aQB on a team that beat manning and the Colts 41-0 in the plyoffs, w/ more help around him Chad can definitely win a SB. last year he had no running game and a young OL, this year the OL should be better and we have a running game.

Chad's arm strength is fine, he faded a little toward the end of last year but w/ a full offseason program his arm strength should hold up better. He's never going to be confused w/ a Ryan Leaf/Jeff george type of arm but luckily he has a great mind and is very accurate. If the D keeps improving and the Ol keeps improving Chad can win a SB.

Jets81
07-20-2007, 09:03 AM
In that same game Chad was marching us up and down the field as well, it was easy tos ee the last team with a legit possesssion was going to win that game and Indy won it. Chad also was aQB on a team that beat manning and the Colts 41-0 in the plyoffs, w/ more help around him Chad can definitely win a SB. last year he had no running game and a young OL, this year the OL should be better and we have a running game.

Chad's arm strength is fine, he faded a little toward the end of last year but w/ a full offseason program his arm strength should hold up better. He's never going to be confused w/ a Ryan Leaf/Jeff george type of arm but luckily he has a great mind and is very accurate. If the D keeps improving and the Ol keeps improving Chad can win a SB.

Chad also had the benefit of some nice returns in that game. Field position was our friend. After what should have been a dagger in the colts hearts (Millers return) Manning brought them right back down to win the game. I certainly can't speak for all Jets fans, but I for one just got the feeling that Manning was going to take that game away from us. I never get that feeling with CP, but thats why Manning is Manning I guess.

As far as Chads accuracy goes I don't think it's what it once was. Even on a lot of the short passes last year guys had to make some pretty good plays on what should have been routine passes. His arm strength was not good last year either. He certainly did have some 30+ yard throws last year that were on the money, but he also had plenty of throws that just seemed to hang out there for way to long. His decision making was also a bit more suspect then it has been in the past. Getting Washington and Coles damn near killed were the first things that came to mind. The Urlacher pick is another that jumps out.

Again I think we can go far with Chad. I'd venture to say that he has as good an arsenal of weapons this season then he has at any point in his career. A lot of his mistake last year were probably a product of nobody respecting our running game. Considering nobody respects the long ball either, he did do fairly well with the deck stacked against him.

burger13
07-20-2007, 10:00 AM
2 things I know from my years of watching football-

1) If the Bills get to a Super Bowl, they will lose it.

2) Being a Jets fan means = they will break your heart. I said this to nyjunc before the 2005 season....when everyone thought they were so great in '04 and primed for a Super Bowl run. I couldn't give a reason why they wouldn't succeed, but what happened? 4-12. This year looks like deja vu.

So by default, the Phins (the only other AFC East team to win a Super Bowl as a member of the NFL) will win next.

Jets81
07-20-2007, 10:25 AM
2 things I know from my years of watching football-

1) If the Bills get to a Super Bowl, they will lose it.

2) Being a Jets fan means = they will break your heart. I said this to nyjunc before the 2005 season....when everyone thought they were so great in '04 and primed for a Super Bowl run. I couldn't give a reason why they wouldn't succeed, but what happened? 4-12. This year looks like deja vu.


3) Since there last SB win, the Dolphins have been the picture of mediocrity. Mediocrity does not win Super Bowls. Not a cheep shot, just a simple truth. They always seem to have a great offense and terrible defense, or vice versa. By the time Cam gets the offense going it could be to late for the D, and the cycle will continue.

burger13
07-20-2007, 10:33 AM
3) Since there last SB win, the Dolphins have been the picture of mediocrity. Mediocrity does not win Super Bowls. Not a cheep shot, just a simple truth. They always seem to have a great offense and terrible defense, or vice versa. By the time Cam gets the offense going it could be to late for the D, and the cycle will continue.

YES!! That's why they have the best winning percentage in the NFL since the 1970 merger.....because since 1973 they have been the picture of mediocrity!!! Thanks for clearing that up. :wink: (I'm not even going to mention that they've been in 3 Super Bowls since then.....oops, just did).

Jets81
07-20-2007, 11:56 AM
YES!! That's why they have the best winning percentage in the NFL since the 1970 merger.....because since 1973 they have been the picture of mediocrity!!! Thanks for clearing that up. :wink: (I'm not even going to mention that they've been in 3 Super Bowls since then.....oops, just did).

Yes, we all know the Dolphins won a couple of Superbowls right after the merger. Can't read this site for more then a day without some Phin fan pointing that out. :rolleyes:

The winning percentage is beautiful too, but what has it gotten you since the last SB win? NOTHING. The Bills have been to more SB's since, and there not in the top 10 winning percentages since the merger.

What that tells me is that the Dolphins have been a great team in the regular season and a poor team in the playoffs. Average it out and you get a mediocre football team since your last SB win.

burger13
07-20-2007, 02:17 PM
The winning percentage is beautiful too, but what has it gotten you since the last SB win? NOTHING. The Bills have been to more SB's since, and there not in the top 10 winning percentages since the merger.

What that tells me is that the Dolphins have been a great team in the regular season and a poor team in the playoffs. Average it out and you get a mediocre football team since your last SB win.

ok....let me test your consistency then.....please descride the NY Jets since their SB win?

Also - poor team in the playoffs gets you to 3 Super Bowls?? Again, please use that logic to describe your Jets and their ZERO SB appearences since their SB win.

Jets81
07-20-2007, 03:18 PM
ok....let me test your consistency then.....please descride the NY Jets since their SB win?

Also - poor team in the playoffs gets you to 3 Super Bowls?? Again, please use that logic to describe your Jets and their ZERO SB appearences since their SB win.

First, I count 2 SB's the Phins have been in since there last win. I'm not a Dolphins lore buff but if you could kindly point out the third I'd appreciate it. 83' , 85' and..

They didn't win either one. The Super Bowl is the Super Bowl, not sure if it's counted as a playoff game, but whether it is or isn't they still didn't seal the deal.

The Jets have been a miserable franchise since there last SB win. One of the laughing stocks of football until Parcells came around and gave the team a bit of credibility. They've have some near misses in the playoffs since then but they they haven't been able to put it together a full season of quality football to get them to where every team wants to be.


Sound about right? It does to me. The Jets have been horrible and the Phins have been mediocre since there last Super Bowl wins.

As far as the question goes, the Jets seem more on track then the Phins do right now. Alternating winning and losing seasons certainly isn't a good thing, but having consecutive losing seasons is worse.

burger13
07-20-2007, 03:55 PM
First, I count 2 SB's the Phins have been in since there last win. I'm not a Dolphins lore buff but if you could kindly point out the third I'd appreciate it. 83' , 85' and..

Touche. I was incorrectly placing the third SB loss AFTER the two we won when it was actually in '71...just before the 2 we won. I'm an idiot on this one.


They didn't win either one. The Super Bowl is the Super Bowl, not sure if it's counted as a playoff game, but whether it is or isn't they still didn't seal the deal.

So...in your mind, anyone other than the team that wins the SB each year is just mediocre?? If that's the case than I can stop the argument....the Dolphins and every other team in the league has been mediocre since 1973.


The Jets have been a miserable franchise since there last SB win. One of the laughing stocks of football until Parcells came around and gave the team a bit of credibility. They've have some near misses in the playoffs since then but they they haven't been able to put it together a full season of quality football to get them to where every team wants to be.

I agree with the first part....but even after Parcells came around, they were below mediocre.....going by the standards you are applying to the post 73 Dolphins (the standard based off the actual performance, not the one I sarcasticly refer to above).


Sound about right? It does to me. The Jets have been horrible and the Phins have been mediocre since there last Super Bowl wins.

Again, seems like you have a broader stroke of mediocrity than I do....and if you are including everyone accept maybe the Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers and Broncos as medocre since 73...than I agree that's what the Phin's have been. But if you want to break the teams down evenly into above average, average (mediocre) and below average....the Phins are definately in the above average category.


As far as the question goes, the Jets seem more on track then the Phins do right now. Alternating winning and losing seasons certainly isn't a good thing, but having consecutive losing seasons is worse.

The Jet's seem more on track than the Phins do right now? Sure, I agree with that. But the Phins seemed more on track going into 06 than the Jets, and the Jets seemed more on track than the Dolphins going into 05....etc.

And I couldn't agree more about consecutive losing seasons.....which I am glad to say the Dolphins haven't had since '68-'69!!!! Jets? back-to-back-to-back '94-'96.

Thanks for putting up the argument.....it's helping me get through an otherwise boring work day. :)

Jets81
07-20-2007, 04:35 PM
Touche. I was incorrectly placing the third SB loss AFTER the two we won when it was actually in '71...just before the 2 we won. I'm an idiot on this one.

Fair enough.




So...in your mind, anyone other than the team that wins the SB each year is just mediocre??

No, not at all. The Phins record is usually somewhere near .500 or above during the regular season. Thats good, obviously. There post season record is 20-19. Throwing out the games pre SB wins, they're 12-17. Not so good. Good > Average > Not so good. Combine the good regular season record with the not so good playoff record and you land right in the middle. Playoffs have to be weighted more for obvious reasons.




I agree with the first part....but even after Parcells came around, they were below mediocre.....going by the standards you are applying to the post 73 Dolphins (the standard based off the actual performance, not the one I sarcasticly refer to above).

The argument was about the Phins being mediocre, not the Jets. I said that Parcells gave the Jets franchise some credibility, and that he did. Since he came and left, the Jets have been a mediocre football team. Good regular season records and a not so good playoff record at 3-5.




Again, seems like you have a broader stroke of mediocrity than I do....and if you are including everyone accept maybe the Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers and Broncos as medocre since 73...than I agree that's what the Phin's have been. But if you want to break the teams down evenly into above average, average (mediocre) and below average....the Phins are definately in the above average category.

Pit, Oakland, San Fran, Dallas, Washington, New England, The Giants, and Denver have all repeated since the Phins last win. A lot of the teams on that list won around the same time the Phins did, and they keep popping up even now. Those franchises get the overall "good" stamp. Again keeping in mind this is post Phins last SB.





The Jet's seem more on track than the Phins do right now? Sure, I agree with that. But the Phins seemed more on track going into 06 than the Jets, and the Jets seemed more on track than the Dolphins going into 05....etc.

Fair enough, although I still think the Jets have the advantage do to the fact that there in there second year of a defensive system that they finally started to grasp towards the end of the season. Homerisitic as it may be, I feel like the Jets are in better shape for the future then the Phins are.



And I couldn't agree more about consecutive losing seasons.....which I am glad to say the Dolphins haven't had since '68-'69!!!! Jets? back-to-back-to-back '94-'96.

Yea I forgot the Phins snuck in that 9-7 under the devil in 05'. Oh, and Rich Kotite. Nuff said.



Thanks for putting up the argument.....it's helping me get through an otherwise boring work day. :)

Anytime.

nyjunc
07-21-2007, 09:17 AM
Chad also had the benefit of some nice returns in that game. Field position was our friend. After what should have been a dagger in the colts hearts (Millers return) Manning brought them right back down to win the game. I certainly can't speak for all Jets fans, but I for one just got the feeling that Manning was going to take that game away from us. I never get that feeling with CP, but thats why Manning is Manning I guess.


Why was miller's return a dagger? he scored w/ over 2 mins left which was plenty of time. I was happy w/ the return at the time but I knew Indy was going to score, I was just hoping we'd have enough time but we didn't. if we had kicked the FG in th 3rd qtr instead of going for it on 4th and G from the 3 then we at least see OT.

Chad had the benefit of ONE big return and it didn't really benefit him b/c if he doesn't score our O was going to score and Manning wouldn't have had time to come back.

Chad played as well as peyton in that game going 17 of 23 for 207 whle manning was 21-30 for 217.



As far as Chads accuracy goes I don't think it's what it once was. Even on a lot of the short passes last year guys had to make some pretty good plays on what should have been routine passes. His arm strength was not good last year either. He certainly did have some 30+ yard throws last year that were on the money, but he also had plenty of throws that just seemed to hang out there for way to long. His decision making was also a bit more suspect then it has been in the past. Getting Washington and Coles damn near killed were the first things that came to mind. The Urlacher pick is another that jumps out.

his arm strength was excellent early in the year but faded as the year went on which was to be expected.

Decision mkaing wise he was in a new system w/ 3 new OL starters, a new starting WR and new RBs. Now he's bee in this system a year, the WRs and OL have experience and the Rbs have been upgraded. as long as he's healthy he's going to have a big year.




Again I think we can go far with Chad. I'd venture to say that he has as good an arsenal of weapons this season then he has at any point in his career. A lot of his mistake last year were probably a product of nobody respecting our running game. Considering nobody respects the long ball either, he did do fairly well with the deck stacked against him.

The fact that we had such a weak ground game yet Chad was still able to lead us to 10 wins was amazing. I expect much better things from him this year.


2) Being a Jets fan means = they will break your heart. I said this to nyjunc before the 2005 season....when everyone thought they were so great in '04 and primed for a Super Bowl run. I couldn't give a reason why they wouldn't succeed, but what happened? 4-12. This year looks like deja vu.



we won 4 games b/c we played a 4th string QB most of the year, had 1 OL start and end the season in the same position, had a 3rd string RB end the season, lost our best defensive player from '04, lost 2 PB caliber DL, lost our best STsplayer,...

The phins don't break your heart? You guys haven't even been close to an AFC Title Game in in over a decade.


So by default, the Phins (the only other AFC East team to win a Super Bowl as a member of the NFL) will win next.

You seem to forget that it's been almost as long since Miami's last SB.



YES!! That's why they have the best winning percentage in the NFL since the 1970 merger.....because since 1973 they have been the picture of mediocrity!!! Thanks for clearing that up. :wink: (I'm not even going to mention that they've been in 3 Super Bowls since then.....oops, just did).



Win % is great but what is your playoff win %? You haven't been close to an AFC Title Game since 1994. You guys are a team that could always make the playoffs but never threaten. The Jets have threatened andyou guys have been one of the worst teams in the league THIS decade. One of only handful not to have made the postseason since realignment.


ok....let me test your consistency then.....please descride the NY Jets since their SB win?

Also - poor team in the playoffs gets you to 3 Super Bowls?? Again, please use that logic to describe your Jets and their ZERO SB appearences since their SB win.

You have been to the SB TWICE not 3 times since your last SB win and your last SB app was 23 years ago and as is the Miami playoff tradition you were humiliated in that game.:wink:




Again, seems like you have a broader stroke of mediocrity than I do....and if you are including everyone accept maybe the Steelers, Cowboys, 49ers and Broncos as medocre since 73...than I agree that's what the Phin's have been. But if you want to break the teams down evenly into above average, average (mediocre) and below average....the Phins are definately in the above average category.


The dolphins weren't medioce until about 2002-current. They were usully a GOOD team but never a top team and it's this dea from dolphin fans that the dolphins are a premiere franchise that I have problems w/. Dolphin fans think thy are the Yankees of the NFL, thy think they are up there w/ teams like Dallas and SF and they aren't close. They are one of the better franchises but not one of the elite


The Jet's seem more on track than the Phins do right now? Sure, I agree with that. But the Phins seemed more on track going into 06 than the Jets, and the Jets seemed more on track than the Dolphins going into 05....etc.

They seemed like they'd be better in '06 but that team was not going to be very good last year. You won some late games when you ere out of the playoff race in '05 then acquired an overrated when healthy QB who happened to be damaged goods. You forgot we ucked in '05 b/c of injuries and nothing else, as long as we are healthy we are better at least in the near future.


And I couldn't agree more about consecutive losing seasons.....which I am glad to say the Dolphins haven't had since '68-'69!!!! Jets? back-to-back-to-back '94-'96.


That's great, we haven't had consecutive non-playoff seasons since '99-'00 while you guys have gone back to back to back to back to back since 2002 in that deparment.

Stitches
07-21-2007, 10:46 AM
Why was miller's return a dagger? he scored w/ over 2 mins left which was plenty of time. I was happy w/ the return at the time but I knew Indy was going to score, I was just hoping we'd have enough time but we didn't. if we had kicked the FG in th 3rd qtr instead of going for it on 4th and G from the 3 then we at least see OT.

Chad had the benefit o ONE big return and it did't really benefit him b/c if he dosn't scor our O was going to score and Manning wouldn't have had time to come back.

Chad played as well as peyton in that game going 17 of 23 for 207 whle manning was 21-30 for 217.




his arm strength was excellent early in the year but faded as the year went on which was to be expected.

Decision mkaing wise he was in a new system w/ 3 new OL starters, a new starting WR and new RBs. Now he's bee in this system a year, the WRs and OL have experience and the Rbs have been upgraded. as long as he's healthy he's going to have a big year.





The fact that we had such a weak ground game yet Chad was still able to lead us to 10 wins was amazing. I expect much better things from him this year.



we won 4 games b/c we played a 4th string QB most of the year, had 1 OL start and end the season in the same position, had a 3rd string RB end the season, lost our best defensive player from '04, lost 2 PB caliber DL, lost our best STsplayer,...

The pins don't break your heart? You guys haven't even been close to an AFC Title Game in in ovr a decade.



You seem to foget that it's been almost as long since Miami's lst SB.



Win % is great but what is your playoff win %? You haven't been close to an AFC Title Game since 1994. You guys are a team that could always make the playoffs but never threaten. The Jets have threatened andyou guyshave been one of the worst teams in the league THIS decade. One of only handful not to have made the postseason since realignment.



You have been to the playoffs TWICE not 3 times since your last SB win and your last SB app was 23 years ago and as is the Miami playoff tradition you were humiliated in that game.:wink:





The dolphins weren't medioce until about 2002-current. They were usully a GOOD team but never a top team and it's this dea from dolphin fans that the dolphins are a premiere franchise that I have problems w/. Dolphin fans think thy are the Yankees of the NFL, thy think they are up there w/ teams like Dallas and SF and they aren't close. They are one of the better franchises but not one of the elite


They seemed like they'd be better in '06 but that team was not going to be very good last year. You won some late games when you ere out of the playoff race in '05 then acquired an overrated when healthy QB who happened to be damaged goods. You forgot we ucked in '05 b/c of injuries and nothing else, as long as we are healthy we are better at least in the near future.



That's great, we haven't had consecutive non-playoff seasons since '99-'00 while you guys have gone back to back to back to back to back since 2002 in that deparment.

I don't disagree with much of what you said, only the bold. We've been to the playoffs far more than 2 times since our last super bowl win. Hell, we've been there more than 2 times since our last super bowl appearance.

nyjunc
07-21-2007, 11:01 AM
I don't disagree with much of what you said, only the bold. We've been to the playoffs far more than 2 times since our last super bowl win. Hell, we've been there more than 2 times since our last super bowl appearance.

Sorry, I meant Super Bowl. I'll change that.

Stitches
07-21-2007, 11:41 AM
Gotcha.

TarHeelFinFan
07-27-2007, 02:33 PM
The Pats or the Jets because God hates us.