PDA

View Full Version : Ted Ginn =Bethel Johnson



satz
06-13-2007, 08:09 AM
Am i the only one who is seeing his weird rehash of the bethel johnson saga repeat with ted ginn.

the comparision is so close both very fast in their class , both PR,KR who had success .Bethel was a better WR coming out of the draft then Ted but heck the concindence is scary.Both started injured too....:sidelol:

satz

arsenal
06-13-2007, 09:37 AM
haha how was Bethel a better WR coming out? Ginn was the number 1 WR on the number 1 team in the country... Bethel was the number 2 WR on a ****ty Texas A&M team... Bethel was never on the pre-season Heisman and Biletnikoff watch lists, etc... just because OSU didn't ask Ginn to run a lot of different routes doesn't mean he cant, or that hes not a good WR...

with his change of direction abilities, fluid hips, and quickness hes going to develop into a sick route runner... just going to take time and reps, just like it does for any rookie WR coming into the NFL

satz
06-13-2007, 09:42 AM
haha how was Bethel a better WR coming out? Ginn was the number 1 WR on the number 1 team in the country
Actually No he was not the #1 WR in his team.

arsenal
06-13-2007, 09:57 AM
Actually No he was not the #1 WR in his team.

actually his junior year yes he was... he was ahead of anthony gonzalez... when i say a guy was number 1 obviously not all through the college career... they have to start at the bottom, he was a number 3/4 his freshman year, the number 2 behind eventual first round pick Santonio Holmes his soph year and the number 1 last year...

shastz
06-13-2007, 10:24 AM
Am i the only one who is seeing his weird rehash of the bethel johnson saga repeat with ted ginn.

the comparision is so close both very fast in their class , both PR,KR who had success .Bethel was a better WR coming out of the draft then Ted but heck the concindence is scary.Both started injured too....:sidelol:

satz


I agree, at least the Pats took Bethal in the second round. To me the Phins are taking a heck of a chance here with a developmental WR at #9 overall. I don't think Phin fans truly get the fact that their teams future for the next 5 years or so has been gambled on 3 things.

1. That Brady Quinn is not a franchise QB????
2. That Ted Ginn is an all world NFL WR????
3. That John Beck can be the QB of the future as good or better than Quinn???

To me Ted Ginn makes almost ZERO sense even if he turns out great. Considering how many more needs this Phin team has, it's like buying desert when you only have enough money for dinner.

There are a number of ways this could turn out

arsenal
06-13-2007, 11:14 AM
:lol: nice to have a "new" person come in and give their opinion...

but there was no extreme gamble taken with the Dolphins... why would you have wanted them to reach for Quinn? maybe trade down and take him, but hes a player who was taken in the 20s and you wanted to take him top 10? no thanks, im tired of reaching for players...

every draft pick is a gamble, Ginn is no different, they feel hes an impact player... and he will be, great pick by the team and then we get the QB rated pretty close to Quinn in the 2nd round and pay him 2nd round money, our draft went amazing... i give so much credit to the FO for pulling it off

Stitches
06-13-2007, 11:25 AM
:lol: nice to have a "new" person come in and give their opinion...

but there was no extreme gamble taken with the Dolphins... why would you have wanted them to reach for Quinn? maybe trade down and take him, but hes a player who was taken in the 20s and you wanted to take him top 10? no thanks, im tired of reaching for players...

every draft pick is a gamble, Ginn is no different, they feel hes an impact player... and he will be, great pick by the team and then we get the QB rated pretty close to Quinn in the 2nd round and pay him 2nd round money, our draft went amazing... i give so much credit to the FO for pulling it off

We wanted offensive help and wanted to add playmakers to that offense, we did that with Ginn. He's no more a gamble than most draft picks.

satz
06-13-2007, 11:46 AM
actually his junior year yes he was... he was ahead of anthony gonzalez... when i say a guy was number 1 obviously not all through the college career... they have to start at the bottom, he was a number 3/4 his freshman year, the number 2 behind eventual first round pick Santonio Holmes his soph year and the number 1 last year...
So he led the team in catches last year ?.

Stitches
06-13-2007, 11:58 AM
So he led the team in catches last year ?.

I don't know if he did, but just because you don't lead your team in catches doesn't mean you aren't the #1 WR.

The Confessor
06-13-2007, 12:02 PM
I agree, at least the Pats took Bethal in the second round. To me the Phins are taking a heck of a chance here with a developmental WR at #9 overall. I don't think Phin fans truly get the fact that their teams future for the next 5 years or so has been gambled on 3 things.

1. That Brady Quinn is not a franchise QB????
2. That Ted Ginn is an all world NFL WR????
3. That John Beck can be the QB of the future as good or better than Quinn???

To me Ted Ginn makes almost ZERO sense even if he turns out great. Considering how many more needs this Phin team has, it's like buying desert when you only have enough money for dinner.

There are a number of ways this could turn out

Okay, and the relevence of where a player is picked why?

The relevence of how Brady Quinn does is what?

I am not crazy about the Ginn pick either, but to call him out as a failure so quickly is assinine...IMO of course

arsenal
06-13-2007, 12:14 PM
So he led the team in catches last year ?.

Ginn? yes and rec yards and rec tds... and thats with the game he missed in the national championship game because of the inj on the kick return...

but even if he didn't he was still the number 1 receiver... Chambers was our number 1, he faced the top corners on the other team, he had more plays designed to him, etc, but he didn't lead us in any receiving stat...

but all the talk of Ginn now is pointless... just wait till hes on the field playing... i mean even in his first time doing any kind of football activity this last mini-camp he was making plays and impressing, and he was JUST cleared... wait for training camp and the season, you'll see what Ginn is all about...

shastz
06-13-2007, 01:08 PM
Okay, and the relevence of where a player is picked why?

The relevence of how Brady Quinn does is what?

I am not crazy about the Ginn pick either, but to call him out as a failure so quickly is assinine...IMO of course


Who called him a failure??? Maybe you should re-read my post, I said nothing of the sort.

Stitches
06-13-2007, 01:30 PM
Ginn? yes and rec yards and rec tds... and thats with the game he missed in the national championship game because of the inj on the kick return...

but even if he didn't he was still the number 1 receiver... Chambers was our number 1, he faced the top corners on the other team, he had more plays designed to him, etc, but he didn't lead us in any receiving stat...

but all the talk of Ginn now is pointless... just wait till hes on the field playing... i mean even in his first time doing any kind of football activity this last mini-camp he was making plays and impressing, and he was JUST cleared... wait for training camp and the season, you'll see what Ginn is all about...

He had more rsuhing yards than any other WR on our team though. :wink:

FaninPatsyLand
06-13-2007, 01:38 PM
I'm not entirely positive, but just off the top of my head I'm pretty sure Marty Booker led the team in TD receptions last year.

And I love the Ginn pick. He's a weapon.. not many teams have a guy that can change the game everytime he touches the ball, which is exactly what Ginn brings to Miami. If Beck develops into the QB that Candy thinks he will, this could have been one of the all-time great drafts in Miami history.

shastz
06-13-2007, 01:45 PM
:lol: nice to have a "new" person come in and give their opinion...

but there was no extreme gamble taken with the Dolphins... why would you have wanted them to reach for Quinn? maybe trade down and take him, but hes a player who was taken in the 20s and you wanted to take him top 10? no thanks, im tired of reaching for players...

every draft pick is a gamble, Ginn is no different, they feel hes an impact player... and he will be, great pick by the team and then we get the QB rated pretty close to Quinn in the 2nd round and pay him 2nd round money, our draft went amazing... i give so much credit to the FO for pulling it off

Wow your post proves my point.

1. The fact that you buy the "idea" that Quinn was a reach is part of the gamble. Most belive he is a franchise QB, and the Phins passing on him makes it a huge gamble.
2.You say your tired of "reaching" for players??? :unsure: What do you think Ginn is??? He's the reach of the Draft at #9.
3. Yes every draft pick is a gamble, the Phins combined the gamble by tying their picks into 1.hoping Quinn isn't a franchise QB, 2. Hoping Ginn is a top flight Wr, and 3. That John Beck is better or as good as Quinn. The odds of the Phins getting all three of these tings to happen is very unlikely.
4. "You give so much credit to the FO for pulling it off????? Are you joking? Pulling what off? Now in order for the Phins draft to pan out, they don't need just a 1st round QB to pan out, instead they need a project Wr to to become a great player, they need the QB they passed on to fail, and to top it all off they need the second round QB they picked to be as good, or better than the QB they passed on because if not, it's not going to matter if Ginn pans out or not, because they won't have a QB to throw him the ball anyway. :tantrum: Sorry but the Phins are talking a huge gamble here, much more than if they had just taken Quinn at #9. Now maybe they win, and maybe they don't, but anyone that can't see how much more risk they are taking here just doesn't understand football.

Stitches
06-13-2007, 01:54 PM
Wow your post proves my point.

1. The fact that you buy the "idea" that Quinn was a reach is part of the gamble. Most belive he is a franchise QB, and the Phins passing on him makes it a huge gamble.
2.You say your tired of "reaching" for players??? :unsure: What do you think Ginn is??? He's the reach of the Draft at #9.
3. Yes every draft pick is a gamble, the Phins combined the gamble by tying their picks into 1.hoping Quinn isn't a franchise QB, 2. Hoping Ginn is a top flight Wr, and 3. That John Beck is better or as good as Quinn. The odds of the Phins getting all three of these tings to happen is very unlikely.
4. "You give so much credit to the FO for pulling it off????? Are you joking? Pulling what off? Now in order for the Phins draft to pan out, they don't need just a 1st round QB to pan out, instead they need a project Wr to to become a great player, they need the QB they passed on to fail, and to top it all off they need the second round QB they picked to be as good, or better than the QB they passed on because if not, it's not going to matter if Ginn pans out or not, because they won't have a QB to throw him the ball anyway. :tantrum: Sorry but the Phins are talking a huge gamble here, much more than if they had just taken Quinn at #9. Now maybe they win, and maybe they don't, but anyone that can't see how much more risk they are taking here just doesn't understand football.

For Ginn to pan out, doesn't he need touches? So to say it doesn't matter if he pans out because they won't have anyone to throw him the ball is kind of a dumb statement. And it's not like they passed on Quinn to get Beck, they passes on Quinn for Ginn. So Beck doesn't have to be better or the same as Quinn, he just has to be Beck. It doesn't matter whether or not if Quinn fails really(at least IMO), because he's in a different situation in Cleveland from what he would've been here.

And as for pulling it off, I assume he means getting Beck in round 2, since the FO tried to trade back into the 1st round to get him, but couldn't and still managed to land him.

arsenal
06-13-2007, 02:11 PM
its simple, what is a reach? taking a player before where they should go...

Quinn went 22... thats not a guess of where he will go, thats where he ACTUALLY went... obviously thats his draft value in this draft...

so you want to pick a player 13 picks higher in the first round and say that wouldn't be a reach? obviously the dolphins could have traded to 21 and gotten Quinn... but you wanted them to take him at 9? thats the definition of a reach...

you cant say if Ginn is a reach, lots of information out there says the Texans would have taken him at 10, the Rams were very interested, no way in hell he would have made it past 20...

so do the math, when talking about a players value, Quinn would have been a reach in this draft at 9, because to the GMs and the people who matter, his value fell in the 20s...

the gamble would have been for the FO to take a player they highly scouted and didn't feel was that good of a player... that would have been the gamble, taking Quinn...

only you and random people need Quinn to fail for this draft to mean anything for us... to our team we need Ginn to be an impact player, thast what we drafted him for, and thats all that matters...

shastz
06-13-2007, 02:45 PM
its simple, what is a reach? taking a player before where they should go...

Quinn went 22... thats not a guess of where he will go, thats where he ACTUALLY went... obviously thats his draft value in this draft...

so you want to pick a player 13 picks higher in the first round and say that wouldn't be a reach? obviously the dolphins could have traded to 21 and gotten Quinn... but you wanted them to take him at 9? thats the definition of a reach...

you cant say if Ginn is a reach, lots of information out there says the Texans would have taken him at 10, the Rams were very interested, no way in hell he would have made it past 20...

so do the math, when talking about a players value, Quinn would have been a reach in this draft at 9, because to the GMs and the people who matter, his value fell in the 20s...

the gamble would have been for the FO to take a player they highly scouted and didn't feel was that good of a player... that would have been the gamble, taking Quinn...

only you and random people need Quinn to fail for this draft to mean anything for us... to our team we need Ginn to be an impact player, thast what we drafted him for, and thats all that matters...

Sorry but thats not all that matters, Ginn could become a great WR, but if Quinn becomes say a top ten franchise QB, then it would still be a major draft bust for the Phins. You can't seperate the two, the Phins don't have a franchise QB, and a developmental kick returner/WR even a great one isn't worth what a great franchise QB is. The Patriots wne three Super Bowls without a single great WR, yet how many do you think they would have won without Tom Brady? I have no problem with the Phin FO passing Quinn if they really feel he is not a "franchise QB", but if they are wrong, they are done, and so are the Phins. To say they are not rolling the dice here is really just foolish wishful thinking.

GridIronKing34
06-13-2007, 02:45 PM
Wow your post proves my point.

1. The fact that you buy the "idea" that Quinn was a reach is part of the gamble. Most belive he is a franchise QB, and the Phins passing on him makes it a huge gamble.
2.You say your tired of "reaching" for players??? :unsure: What do you think Ginn is??? He's the reach of the Draft at #9.
3. Yes every draft pick is a gamble, the Phins combined the gamble by tying their picks into 1.hoping Quinn isn't a franchise QB, 2. Hoping Ginn is a top flight Wr, and 3. That John Beck is better or as good as Quinn. The odds of the Phins getting all three of these tings to happen is very unlikely.
4. "You give so much credit to the FO for pulling it off????? Are you joking? Pulling what off? Now in order for the Phins draft to pan out, they don't need just a 1st round QB to pan out, instead they need a project Wr to to become a great player, they need the QB they passed on to fail, and to top it all off they need the second round QB they picked to be as good, or better than the QB they passed on because if not, it's not going to matter if Ginn pans out or not, because they won't have a QB to throw him the ball anyway. :tantrum: Sorry but the Phins are talking a huge gamble here, much more than if they had just taken Quinn at #9. Now maybe they win, and maybe they don't, but anyone that can't see how much more risk they are taking here just doesn't understand football.

1. Most believe he's a franchise QB? "Most" do? Is that why so many teams passed on him? Very few teams have their franchise QBs (Colts, Bengals, Cardinals, etc..).

2. It has been said that Houston was going to select him at #10. How do you know he was "a huge reach"? I'd bet my manhood that Ginn would've been selected before Quinn had we passed on both.

3. Yes every pick is a gamble. But let's see here, why are we taking the harsh criticism? We selected an X-Factor in Ginn so teams would pay more attention to him, less attention to Brown/Chambers. We'll also have an advantage in the field position game. We selected a QB that OUR front office had rated slightly below/equal to Brady Quinn. And we're suppose to hope that Quinn isn't a franchise QB? What about Cleveland? Aren't they going to be ridiculed for giving a possible top five pick and a high 2nd round pick for Brady Quinn? Of course they aren't, because all those "draft gurus" have a mancrush on Brady Quinn...

4. Credit the FO for pulling it out? Why not? They got their QB they wanted all along. They got their X Factor WR/PR/KR they got all along... Without giving up ANY picks to trade up! If Brady Quinn is a failure in Cleveland, it doesn't matter what Ginn/Beck do. Because if Quinn fails, the media isn't going to blame Miami for not taking him. So if Quinn fails, then we're fine. If Ginn and Beck succeed in the NFL, as does Quinn, we're still fine. The only thing we need to worry about is if Ginn/Beck fail while Quinn looks amazing. If that happens, then you can pretty much guess that the Cam/Randy combination is good as gone in Miami.

I disagree with you for the most part, especially with your end quote. How they are taking a much greater risk than others, if someone doesn't understand that, they don't know football. Say whatever you want. It doesn't matter. If Ted Ginn and John Beck succeed in the NFL, I know you won't be back saying you were wrong... But if they don't pan out... I can gurantee you I'll still be here.

satz
06-13-2007, 02:49 PM
Even though my initial pointer was hijacked....let me add my 2 cents. The man who is actually going to face the piper is cam the HC.In reality his future is tied to his selection.If he does not make it to .500 in 2 yrs and his picks show some improvement he will be canned.So when he makes the call ,he is making on his lively .Wrong or Right we will know only through 3rd year.

If i have a problem with any pick then its probabily Beck.The guy will start in 2 yrs at 28.Even manning and brady took 2 full years of starting before turning round into Qb capable of winning on their own .Brady is 29 now and manning 31 .so beck will not show promise till 30-32.He has backup written all over this pick.

Stitches
06-13-2007, 03:04 PM
Even though my initial pointer was hijacked....let me add my 2 cents. The man who is actually going to face the piper is cam the HC.In reality his future is tied to his selection.If he does not make it to .500 in 2 yrs and his picks show some improvement he will be canned.So when he makes the call ,he is making on his lively .Wrong or Right we will know only through 3rd year.

If i have a problem with any pick then its probabily Beck.The guy will start in 2 yrs at 28.Even manning and brady took 2 full years of starting before turning round into Qb capable of winning on their own .Brady is 29 now and manning 31 .so beck will not show promise till 30-32.He has backup written all over this pick.

If Beck has backup written all over him, by the same measure, so does every QB picked on day one for various reasons.

arsenal
06-13-2007, 03:16 PM
Sorry but thats not all that matters, Ginn could become a great WR, but if Quinn becomes say a top ten franchise QB, then it would still be a major draft bust for the Phins. You can't seperate the two, the Phins don't have a franchise QB, and a developmental kick returner/WR even a great one isn't worth what a great franchise QB is. The Patriots wne three Super Bowls without a single great WR, yet how many do you think they would have won without Tom Brady? I have no problem with the Phin FO passing Quinn if they really feel he is not a "franchise QB", but if they are wrong, they are done, and so are the Phins. To say they are not rolling the dice here is really just foolish wishful thinking.

but we drafted a QB that our FO (who constantly pushes the point forward how important the QB position is) liked just as much, if not more than Quinn and see as a franchise QB...

if Quinn becomes good, he becomes good, oh well... if Pat Willis becomes LT, we passed on him too... if Joe Staley becomes Walter Jones, we passed on him too... etc...

we aren't the only team to pass on Quinn, and weren't the only team with a QB need who passed on Quinn... fact of the matter is what Quinn does has no bearing, because if we win a superbowl thats all that matters... Beck could be an average QB for his career, but if we win superbowls with him, who cares? we are building a team, we're not building who has the better franchise QB... Ginn will be an intricate part to this team, as will Beck as will everyone we drafted... its not about well if Quinn does good our draft was crap... thats just dumb...

The Confessor
06-13-2007, 03:32 PM
Even though my initial pointer was hijacked....let me add my 2 cents. The man who is actually going to face the piper is cam the HC.In reality his future is tied to his selection.If he does not make it to .500 in 2 yrs and his picks show some improvement he will be canned.So when he makes the call ,he is making on his lively .Wrong or Right we will know only through 3rd year.

If i have a problem with any pick then its probabily Beck.The guy will start in 2 yrs at 28.Even manning and brady took 2 full years of starting before turning round into Qb capable of winning on their own .Brady is 29 now and manning 31 .so beck will not show promise till 30-32.He has backup written all over this pick.


Okay, lets work on YOUR logic for a second..

We have had a "Franchise QB". In fact, one of the best of all times...painfull to us, but he has ZERO titles.

Now then, how much of a "Franchise QB" is Trent Dilfer?:wink:

Alex44
06-13-2007, 03:52 PM
Taking Quinn would not have been any less of a gamble.

Our staff did not want Quinn, and it is far more of a gamble to work with someone you don't want.

Silverphin
06-13-2007, 07:40 PM
Sorry but thats not all that matters, Ginn could become a great WR, but if Quinn becomes say a top ten franchise QB, then it would still be a major draft bust for the Phins. You can't seperate the two, the Phins don't have a franchise QB, and a developmental kick returner/WR even a great one isn't worth what a great franchise QB is. The Patriots wne three Super Bowls without a single great WR, yet how many do you think they would have won without Tom Brady? I have no problem with the Phin FO passing Quinn if they really feel he is not a "franchise QB", but if they are wrong, they are done, and so are the Phins. To say they are not rolling the dice here is really just foolish wishful thinking.

So if Quinn becomes a top ten QB, Ted Ginn would still be a draft bust for the 'Phins, no matter what kind of numbers he put up.

The way I see it, if Ted Ginn turns out great, then who really gives a damn about what Quinn did. Cam got HIS player, he performs the way HE expected him to perform.

Oh yeah... believe or not, we actually drafted someone who is slated to be our Franchise QB. His name's John Beck.

shastz
06-14-2007, 09:02 AM
So if Quinn becomes a top ten QB, Ted Ginn would still be a draft bust for the 'Phins, no matter what kind of numbers he put up.

The way I see it, if Ted Ginn turns out great, then who really gives a damn about what Quinn did. Cam got HIS player, he performs the way HE expected him to perform.

Oh yeah... believe or not, we actually drafted someone who is slated to be our Franchise QB. His name's John Beck.


Thats exactly what I'm saying. Phin fans can spin it anyway they want but in the end they passed on what many belive is franchise type QB. Ginn could very well be a great WR, but no Great WR is worth what a great Franchise QB is and that not even debatable. Everything else is just Phin fans spinning to defend their FO, when most of them in their Hearts don't get the logic of this pick either. :confused:

Stitches
06-14-2007, 10:26 AM
Thats exactly what I'm saying. Phin fans can spin it anyway they want but in the end they passed on what many belive is franchise type QB. Ginn could very well be a great WR, but no Great WR is worth what a great Franchise QB is and that not even debatable. Everything else is just Phin fans spinning to defend their FO, when most of them in their Hearts don't get the logic of this pick either. :confused:

I completely get the logic. They felt Ginn was more valuable to the team both short term and long term than Quinn would have been.

Hearts don't dictate logic either, the brain does. The heart dictates feelings.

shastz
06-14-2007, 12:32 PM
I completely get the logic. They felt Ginn was more valuable to the team both short term and long term than Quinn would have been.

Hearts don't dictate logic either, the brain does. The heart dictates feelings.


It's clear they felt Ginn was the better pick because they took him of course. Your heart as a phin fan wants them to be right and thats understandable, I just question the logic of passing up Quinn. Lets face it, he may have had questions on him at the next level, but what rookie doesn't? Are you honestly going to say Ginn has less questions about his ability at the next level than Quinn?

Stitches
06-14-2007, 12:37 PM
It's clear they felt Ginn was the better pick because they took him of course. Your heart as a phin fan wants them to be right and thats understandable, I just question the logic of passing up Quinn. Lets face it, he may have had questions on him at the next level, but what rookie doesn't? Are you honestly going to say Ginn has less questions about his ability at the next level than Quinn?

No, I won't make that statement, nor will I deny it. I have not done enough scouting on either player to make such a judgement.

However, I know the FO thought Ginn was a better fit for this team both short and long term. And that is good enough for me in this case.

Silverphin
06-14-2007, 07:08 PM
Thats exactly what I'm saying. Phin fans can spin it anyway they want but in the end they passed on what many belive is franchise type QB. Ginn could very well be a great WR, but no Great WR is worth what a great Franchise QB is and that not even debatable. Everything else is just Phin fans spinning to defend their FO, when most of them in their Hearts don't get the logic of this pick either. :confused:

Of course, you're assuming that John Beck becomes a career back-up or a bust even.

Roman529
06-14-2007, 10:32 PM
Am i the only one who is seeing his weird rehash of the bethel johnson saga repeat with ted ginn.

the comparision is so close both very fast in their class , both PR,KR who had success .Bethel was a better WR coming out of the draft then Ted but heck the concindence is scary.Both started injured too....:sidelol:

satz

Bro, why don't you wait until Ginn gets a season under his belt before you start making faulty comparisons. :rolleyes2

BIHPhinFan4Life
06-14-2007, 11:02 PM
Smack / personal attacks not permitted here.

shastz
06-15-2007, 10:13 AM
Of course, you're assuming that John Beck becomes a career back-up or a bust even.

Not really, what I'm saying is real simple, instead of just one risk by drafting Quinn, the Phins rolled three dice and tripled the risk, and the the number of ways they can lose. To say that Ginn was the better fit is just SPIN, no one knows how this will turn out, yet for this pick to make any sense Quinn needs to be a bust. A WR, even a great one isn't worth what a great QB is, that's a simple fact. So of course the Phins need Quinn to fail to make their selection make any sense, by not taking Quinn thats exactly what they said, "we don't think Quinn is a franchise QB", because if they did think he was, they would have taken him. By picking Beck in the second round they said it again, "We belive Beck is as good or better than Quinn". So as I've said, the only way the Phins can win this gamble is if Ginn becomes a top fight WR, Beck becomes as good or better than Quinn, or Quinn just out and out sucks.

TBW12
06-15-2007, 10:33 AM
Smack / personal attacks not permitted here.


while I agree its dumb to compare players before they've actually played, you still see a lot of dolphin fans calling him the next (insert pro bowl reciever here).

Stitches
06-15-2007, 10:57 AM
Not really, what I'm saying is real simple, instead of just one risk by drafting Quinn, the Phins rolled three dice and tripled the risk, and the the number of ways they can lose. To say that Ginn was the better fit is just SPIN, no one knows how this will turn out, yet for this pick to make any sense Quinn needs to be a bust. A WR, even a great one isn't worth what a great QB is, that's a simple fact. So of course the Phins need Quinn to fail to make their selection make any sense, by not taking Quinn thats exactly what they said, "we don't think Quinn is a franchise QB", because if they did think he was, they would have taken him. By picking Beck in the second round they said it again, "We belive Beck is as good or better than Quinn". So as I've said, the only way the Phins can win this gamble is if Ginn becomes a top fight WR, Beck becomes as good or better than Quinn, or Quinn just out and out sucks.

That's complete bull****. If Quinn was on the board and we drafted Beck then that would be sayig we thought Beck was going to turn out just as good or better than Quinn. But considering it never came down to an option between Beck and Quinn you can't say that, it's just hearsay.

The only thing the Dolphins rolled the dice on was thier perception that Ginn was a better fit for this team, both short and long term, than Quinn would be. Period.

I mean, by your ****ing logic, the Eagles chose Kolb over Quinn and the Lions picked Stanton over Quinn, so in order for thier pick to make sense Quinn has to be a bust. That's absolutely retarded.

Stitches
06-15-2007, 10:59 AM
while I agree its dumb to compare players before they've actually played, you still see a lot of dolphin fans calling him the next (insert pro bowl reciever here).

I might say I hope he can turn out like 'so and so' but I never will say he will be or is like 'so and so.'

And it'll be a while before Ginn has a chance even to make it to the pro-bowl as a WR. That's my opinion at least.

satz
06-16-2007, 12:51 PM
Okay, lets work on YOUR logic for a second..

We have had a "Franchise QB". In fact, one of the best of all times...painfull to us, but he has ZERO titles.

Now then, how much of a "Franchise QB" is Trent Dilfer?:wink:

Again ,beck has more chance to be dilfer than anything.I am not talking about titles here.I am not even talking about franchise qb,a term some idiot sports writer cooked up.I am talking about the investement it takes from a team prespective to develop a qb.Would invest in some who might give you 3-4 good yrs compared to 7-8 good yrs barring injury.

ThatOneGuy
06-18-2007, 04:52 PM
It seems like a lot of phin fans have changed their attitudes since draft day.

Wasn't it phin fans who booed Cameron UNMERCIFULLY when he came to the podium on draft day?

Wasn't it phins fans that ripped Cam apart for that pick? Wasn't it phin fans that asked WTF?! we picked a hurt WR/PR with the 9th pick in the draft? WTF ARE THEY THINKING!!!!???

What Cam done between then and now that is making a lot of phin fans defend the pick? Could it be because a lot of phin fans are wishing, hoping that Cam is right and Dolphins won't get laughed at like the Texans did for not selecting Bush (I am in now way comparing Quinn to Bush)?

Wasn't it Phion fans that thought Quinn was going to be their savior at qb and those same fand now call him a scrub?

arsenal
06-18-2007, 05:07 PM
It seems like a lot of phin fans have changed their attitudes since draft day.

Wasn't it phin fans who booed Cameron UNMERCIFULLY when he came to the podium on draft day?

Wasn't it phins fans that ripped Cam apart for that pick? Wasn't it phin fans that asked WTF?! we picked a hurt WR/PR with the 9th pick in the draft? WTF ARE THEY THINKING!!!!???

What Cam done between then and now that is making a lot of phin fans defend the pick? Could it be because a lot of phin fans are wishing, hoping that Cam is right and Dolphins won't get laughed at like the Texans did for not selecting Bush (I am in now way comparing Quinn to Bush)?

Wasn't it Phion fans that thought Quinn was going to be their savior at qb and those same fand now call him a scrub?

why are you grouping phin fans one one big generalization? i was always happy with the Ginn pick, i loved the pick... pre-draft ginn was the guy i wanted all along...

FinfanInBuffalo
06-18-2007, 10:20 PM
Wow your post proves my point.

1. The fact that you buy the "idea" that Quinn was a reach is part of the gamble. Most belive he is a franchise QB, and the Phins passing on him makes it a huge gamble.
2.You say your tired of "reaching" for players??? :unsure: What do you think Ginn is??? He's the reach of the Draft at #9.
3. Yes every draft pick is a gamble, the Phins combined the gamble by tying their picks into 1.hoping Quinn isn't a franchise QB, 2. Hoping Ginn is a top flight Wr, and 3. That John Beck is better or as good as Quinn. The odds of the Phins getting all three of these tings to happen is very unlikely.
4. "You give so much credit to the FO for pulling it off????? Are you joking? Pulling what off? Now in order for the Phins draft to pan out, they don't need just a 1st round QB to pan out, instead they need a project Wr to to become a great player, they need the QB they passed on to fail, and to top it all off they need the second round QB they picked to be as good, or better than the QB they passed on because if not, it's not going to matter if Ginn pans out or not, because they won't have a QB to throw him the ball anyway. :tantrum: Sorry but the Phins are talking a huge gamble here, much more than if they had just taken Quinn at #9. Now maybe they win, and maybe they don't, but anyone that can't see how much more risk they are taking here just doesn't understand football.

Brady Quinn had no bearing on the Fins. He wasn't drafted by the Fins. Very, very little has been written about any other team that passed on Quinn getting their draft graded on how well Quinn does. Why would you single out the Fins. Why not the Vikings, Cowboys, Lions, etc, etc?

The Fins need Ginn and Beck to work out. Every team needs their picks to work out.

Silverphin
06-19-2007, 07:45 AM
Again ,beck has more chance to be dilfer than anything.I am not talking about titles here.I am not even talking about franchise qb,a term some idiot sports writer cooked up.I am talking about the investement it takes from a team prespective to develop a qb.Would invest in some who might give you 3-4 good yrs compared to 7-8 good yrs barring injury.


1). Based on what?

2). For a term some idiot sports writer cooked up, you loving pointing out that we SO CALLED missed our FRANCHISE quarterback.

satz
06-19-2007, 08:14 AM
1). Based on what?

2). For a term some idiot sports writer cooked up, you loving pointing out that we SO CALLED missed our FRANCHISE quarterback.

can you list all the quaterbacks who had success in the league from the 1st year of starting.Even though brady won in 2001 he was very shaky and the team and coaching carried him.peyton took a few years to become succesfull.same can be said for every qb who has started for a season.It takes a few full season of starting.Palmer is another one.

Now you are telling me all this is wrong and beck is somehow going to start and break the tread.No way he will be a good qb if the team and management does not take their time.But i do not think they will wait for him to be 31-32 to be good.They will push him and make another harrington out of him.

I am not a supporter of Quinn either , he might be good but with a #9 pick i believe you should get someone who will be on the field most of the snaps in offense or defence immediately with low risk [qb is a high rish position unless you find a palmer] say a DL,LB,OL who can contribute a full game on one side not 2-3 snaps a game.

One more point right after bethel was draft bb said "you cannot teach speed" and this has been mentioned a few times here by other fans.

satz

ThatOneGuy
06-19-2007, 09:55 AM
why are you grouping phin fans one one big generalization? i was always happy with the Ginn pick, i loved the pick... pre-draft ginn was the guy i wanted all along...

By saying "a lot" that doesn't mean "all." I wasn't generalizing all phin fans, just the ones that bashed this pick when it happened and booed Cam when he made his announcement to the fans.

Now I am hearing from a lot of these same fans (who wanted Quinn) that Ginn is going to be an all-pro and pro-bowl receiver/KR that is going to do wonders for Miami's O and Brady Quinn isn't going to do squat. Those are the fans that I am talking about.

Stitches
06-19-2007, 09:56 AM
can you list all the quaterbacks who had success in the league from the 1st year of starting.Even though brady won in 2001 he was very shaky and the team and coaching carried him.peyton took a few years to become succesfull.same can be said for every qb who has started for a season.It takes a few full season of starting.Palmer is another one.Now you are telling me all this wrong and beck is somehow going to start and break the tread.No way he will be a good qb if the team and management take their time.But i do not think they will wait for him to be 31-32 to be good.They will push him and make another harrington out of him.

I am not a supporter of Quinn either , he might be good but with a #9 pick i believe you should get someone who will be on the field most of the snaps in offense or defence immediately with low risk [qb is a high rish position unless you find a palmer] say a DL,LB,OL who can contribute a full game on one side not 2-3 snaps a game.

One more point right after bethel was draft bb said "you cannot teach speed" and this has been mentioned a few times here by other fans.

satz

So you're assuming Ginn will only play 2-3 snaps a game.

And your whole first paragraph makes little sense(I realize this is a message board too, but try using the space bar between sentences).

"No way he will be a good qb if the team and management take their time.But i do not think they will wait for him to be 31-32 to be good.They will push him and make another harrington out of him."

So you don't think he'll be good if the team takes thier time with Beck, yet you go on to say the team won't wait until he is 31 to be good in your opinion. Well since waiting it out wouldn't help Beck, like you are saying, why should they take thier time with him?

Stitches
06-19-2007, 10:03 AM
By saying "a lot" that doesn't mean "all." I wasn't generalizing all phin fans, just the ones that bashed this pick when it happened and booed Cam when he made his announcement to the fans.

Now I am hearing from a lot of these same fans (who wanted Quinn) that Ginn is going to be an all-pro and pro-bowl receiver/KR that is going to do wonders for Miami's O and Brady Quinn isn't going to do squat. Those are the fans that I am talking about.

Well when you post generalities about fin fans on a message board who the majority of posters weren't at the dolphins complex for the draft, they tend to take exception.

satz
06-19-2007, 12:03 PM
"No way he will be a good qb if the team and management take their time.But i do not think they will wait for him to be 31-32 to be good.They will push him and make another harrington out of him."

So you don't think he'll be good if the team takes thier time with Beck, yet you go on to say the team won't wait until he is 31 to be good in your opinion. Well since waiting it out wouldn't help Beck, like you are saying, why should they take thier time with him?

Sorry about the little sentence mess up .....

No way he will be a good qb if the team and management does not take their time

Stitches
06-19-2007, 01:04 PM
Sorry about the little sentence mess up .....

No way he will be a good qb if the team and management does not take their time

That's pretty much the case with an QB though, and also the case with a lot of rookies in general.

shastz
06-19-2007, 01:13 PM
1). Based on what?

2). For a term some idiot sports writer cooked up, you loving pointing out that we SO CALLED missed our FRANCHISE quarterback.

That's the whole point, the Phins just may very well have missed out on their franchise QB. Are you going to sit there and pretend there's not a chance that passing on Quinn was a huge mistake? Like-wise, of course the the picks the phins did make in Ginn and Beck will be judged in the same light that Quinn is. To retend the picks have no baring on on another is just foolish, the Phins passed on a major need because they didn't like the player. Now we get to find out if they where right or not. :rolleyes2

ThatOneGuy
06-19-2007, 01:31 PM
Well when you post generalities about fin fans on a message board who the majority of posters weren't at the dolphins complex for the draft, they tend to take exception.

:shakeno:

You see you are being specific again.
Booing can happen anywhere, not just at the complex during the draft. I know a few phin fans that I work with who told me how they reacted (booed, swore, and a couple of them hit the tv) to the pick when it happened and now all of them have changed their tune.
I know a few dolphin fans doesn't account for the masses but it does give me valid proof as to what I am saying.

Stitches
06-19-2007, 02:03 PM
That's the whole point, the Phins just may very well have missed out on their franchise QB. Are you going to sit there and pretend there's not a chance that passing on Quinn was a huge mistake? Like-wise, of course the the picks the phins did make in Ginn and Beck will be judged in the same light that Quinn is. To retend the picks have no baring on on another is just foolish, the Phins passed on a major need because they didn't like the player. Now we get to find out if they where right or not. :rolleyes2

Where was it ever said that the Dolphins didn't like Quinn?

satz
06-19-2007, 04:07 PM
That's pretty much the case with an QB though, and also the case with a lot of rookies in general.
Yep but with green if he goes down i think beck will be pushed in .

TotoreMexico
06-19-2007, 04:12 PM
Yep but with green if he goes down i think beck will be pushed in .

If Green goes down, I think Lemon would be the starter because he knows the system

shastz
06-20-2007, 10:40 AM
Where was it ever said that the Dolphins didn't like Quinn?

The fact that they passed on him for a kick returner/ "project WR" with the #9 pick is a pretty good indication they didn't like him. Look you can spinn it all you like, the fact is the Phins have gambled more by not taking Quinn then they would have with him. To me it was one of the dumbest things I've seen in the daft in a very long time, but who knows, I could be wrong. :rolleyes2

Stitches
06-20-2007, 12:43 PM
The fact that they passed on him for a kick returner/ "project WR" with the #9 pick is a pretty good indication they didn't like him. Look you can spinn it all you like, the fact is the Phins have gambled more by not taking Quinn then they would have with him. To me it was one of the dumbest things I've seen in the daft in a very long time, but who knows, I could be wrong. :rolleyes2

No, all that means is they liked Ginn more, not that they didn't like Quinn. You can keep spinning this any way you want, the FO chose the guy they wanted and thought was a better fit.

JIVE
06-21-2007, 01:41 PM
Ginn is more of a playmaker than Bethel Johnson was.

Johnson's speed was absolutely incredible (I think I heard he ran a 4.1 or something at his pro day) but his problems were route running, intelligence, injuries and toughness. Johnson is proof that speed means squat if you don't have the rest of the things it takes to be a wide reciever.

I think Ginn was definitely a reach at 9, and while the two do have the speed thing in common, I think it would be wise to give him some time to actually play before we declare him as much of a failure as Bethel Johnson.

Stitches
06-21-2007, 01:52 PM
Ginn is more of a playmaker than Bethel Johnson was.

Johnson's speed was absolutely incredible (I think I heard he ran a 4.1 or something at his pro day) but his problems were route running, intelligence, injuries and toughness. Johnson is proof that speed means squat if you don't have the rest of the things it takes to be a wide reciever.

I think Ginn was definitely a reach at 9, and while the two do have the speed thing in common, I think it would be wise to give him some time to actually play before we declare him as much of a failure as Bethel Johnson.

:clap:

TotoreMexico
06-21-2007, 02:18 PM
Ginn is more of a playmaker than Bethel Johnson was.

Johnson's speed was absolutely incredible (I think I heard he ran a 4.1 or something at his pro day) but his problems were route running, intelligence, injuries and toughness. Johnson is proof that speed means squat if you don't have the rest of the things it takes to be a wide reciever.

I think Ginn was definitely a reach at 9, and while the two do have the speed thing in common, I think it would be wise to give him some time to actually play before we declare him as much of a failure as Bethel Johnson.

:goodpost:

FinfanInBuffalo
06-21-2007, 05:46 PM
To retend the picks have no baring on on another is just foolish, the Phins passed on a major need because they didn't like the player. Now we get to find out if they where right or not.

Last time I checked, they filled the need with a QB that they had rated higher. How does that mean the passed on a major need?

The QBs drafted this year will be compared to each other just the way other the QBs in other QB heavy drafts are compared.

Stitches
06-21-2007, 06:30 PM
Last time I checked, they filled the need with a QB that they had rated higher. How does that mean the passed on a major need?

The QBs drafted this year will be compared to each other just the way other the QBs in other QB heavy drafts are compared.

Where was it ever said by any coach or FO worker that we had Beck rated higher?

shastz
06-22-2007, 09:28 AM
Last time I checked, they filled the need with a QB that they had rated higher. How does that mean the passed on a major need?

The QBs drafted this year will be compared to each other just the way other the QBs in other QB heavy drafts are compared.

Thats the gamble, but many of your fellow phin fans seem to think passing on Quinn was no gamble at all. :rolleyes:

Zeke0123
06-22-2007, 09:55 AM
Thats the gamble, but many of your fellow phin fans seem to think passing on Quinn was no gamble at all. :rolleyes:The Dolphins Hired the guy that Brady Quinn hired to get ready for the combine.. he worked with Quinn for 6+ weeks to get ready for the combine and guess what the Dolphins still PASSED on him...no other organization had more insight into Quinns pro potential than the Dolphins ill give the benefit of the doubt to guys who get paid millions of dollars to evalute vs another teams fan.. but thanks for the post :bighug:.

TotoreMexico
06-22-2007, 09:58 AM
The Dolphins Hired the guy that Brady Quinn hired to get ready for the combine.. he worked with Quinn for 6+ weeks to get ready for the combine and guess what the Dolphins still PASSED on him...no other organization had more insight into Quinns pro potential than the Dolphins ill give the benefit of the doubt to guys who get paid millions of dollars to evalute vs another teams fan.. but thanks for the post :bighug:.

:clap:

satz
06-22-2007, 10:25 AM
The Dolphins Hired the guy that Brady Quinn hired to get ready for the combine.. he worked with Quinn for 6+ weeks to get ready for the combine and guess what the Dolphins still PASSED on him...no other organization had more insight into Quinns pro potential than the Dolphins ill give the benefit of the doubt to guys who get paid millions of dollars to evalute vs another teams fan.. but thanks for the post :bighug:.
Cool was he part of the daunta debacle too or its a trend in miami to go by the evaluators word as it meant the last time.Seems like they already got the fall guy lined up.

shastz
06-22-2007, 12:49 PM
:lol:
The Dolphins Hired the guy that Brady Quinn hired to get ready for the combine.. he worked with Quinn for 6+ weeks to get ready for the combine and guess what the Dolphins still PASSED on him...no other organization had more insight into Quinns pro potential than the Dolphins ill give the benefit of the doubt to guys who get paid millions of dollars to evalute vs another teams fan.. but thanks for the post :bighug:.
See I would put alot more weight on the insight of a guy thats coached a Future Hall of Fame QB for 6 years as well as actually coached Quinn in games for two years, over a guy that worked Quinn out for "six weeks." :lol: Charlie Wiese has gone out of his way a number of times to say that Quinn is more NFL ready than Tom Brady was in 01, thats pretty high praise don't you think? Now before you go on with "oh he's just saying that becauses he coached the kid.", don't think for a second that Wiese would put his rep. as a coach on the line if he didn't belive it. By the way I'm pretty sure the guy that the Phins had work out Quinn for six weeks was the same guy that worked Tom Brady out before he was drafted in 2000.

TotoreMexico
06-22-2007, 01:00 PM
:lol:
See I would put alot more weight on the insight of a guy thats coached a Future Hall of Fame QB for 6 years as well as actually coached Quinn in games for two years, over a guy that worked Quinn out for "six weeks." :lol: Charlie Wiese has gone out of his way a number of times to say that Quinn is more NFL ready than Tom Brady was in 01, thats pretty high praise don't you think? Now before you go on with "oh he's just saying that becauses he coached the kid.", don't think for a second that Wiese would put his rep. as a coach on the line if he didn't belive it. By the way I'm pretty sure the guy that the Phins had work out Quinn for six weeks was the same guy that worked Tom Brady out before he was drafted in 2000.

From 2001 to 2003, he was the Quarterbacks Coach for the Kansas City Chiefs. In 2004, he became the Offensive Coordinator for the Chicago Bears. Following the 2004 season, he was replaced by former University of Illinois head coach Ron Turner. He then returned to the Kansas City Chiefs, once again as the Quarterbacks Coach in 2005. On January 12th, 2007, he was fired as the Quarterbacks Coach for the Chiefs

Is there something else you want to lie about?

shastz
06-22-2007, 03:07 PM
From 2001 to 2003, he was the Quarterbacks Coach for the Kansas City Chiefs. In 2004, he became the Offensive Coordinator for the Chicago Bears. Following the 2004 season, he was replaced by former University of Illinois head coach Ron Turner. He then returned to the Kansas City Chiefs, once again as the Quarterbacks Coach in 2005. On January 12th, 2007, he was fired as the Quarterbacks Coach for the Chiefs

Is there something else you want to lie about?


It's called "sarcasm" maybe you should look it up ?:lol:

cnc66
06-22-2007, 03:57 PM
:lol:
See I would put alot more weight on the insight of a guy thats coached a Future Hall of Fame QB for 6 years as well as actually coached Quinn in games for two years, over a guy that worked Quinn out for "six weeks." :lol: Charlie Wiese has gone out of his way a number of times to say that Quinn is more NFL ready than Tom Brady was in 01, thats pretty high praise don't you think? Now before you go on with "oh he's just saying that becauses he coached the kid.", don't think for a second that Wiese would put his rep. as a coach on the line if he didn't belive it. By the way I'm pretty sure the guy that the Phins had work out Quinn for six weeks was the same guy that worked Tom Brady out before he was drafted in 2000.

whatttt... like fatso Charlie Weiss doesn't have an agenda, the second he says anything different, he loses qb recruits... this is a weak argument, you are trying to discredit the source.. the guy who ACTUALLY coached him, and works for us... not the hiding irish, really weak.

the problem is, our coaching staff fooled us out of our jocks. They "let us think" the "only" pick for us was Brady Quinn... they cultivated this drama to take the heat off Beck, and NOW, all the guys who would hate "any" pick not their own choice, are falling all over themselves trying to convince all who read we made a mistake by not doing it "their" way. Hell, there's a 12 page thread here all about Ginn not being "worth" a 9...

IMO, the REAL comparison will be Beck/Quinn. If our guy Beck, is anywhere near as good or better than Quinn, the Ginn pick becomes absolutely brilliant.

TotoreMexico
06-22-2007, 09:31 PM
:lol:
See I would put alot more weight on the insight of a guy thats coached a Future Hall of Fame QB for 6 years as well as actually coached Quinn in games for two years, over a guy that worked Quinn out for "six weeks." :lol: Charlie Wiese has gone out of his way a number of times to say that Quinn is more NFL ready than Tom Brady was in 01, thats pretty high praise don't you think? Now before you go on with "oh he's just saying that becauses he coached the kid.", don't think for a second that Wiese would put his rep. as a coach on the line if he didn't belive it. By the way I'm pretty sure the guy that the Phins had work out Quinn for six weeks was the same guy that worked Tom Brady out before he was drafted in 2000.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=201217

http://espn-mp3-od.andomedia.com/espnpod2/espnradio/radio_daily/espnradio070619.mp3

Uppps, looks like "the most NFL ready QB" is not quite ready

rutgers11
06-23-2007, 05:05 PM
if u had the nfl network u would know that houton wanted ginn at 10..... adam sheffner reported..... and he is accurate

TBW12
06-23-2007, 05:51 PM
if u had the nfl network u would know that houton wanted ginn at 10..... adam sheffner reported..... and he is accurate


Because Houston is the Golden Standard when it comes to making draft choices.

Zeke0123
06-23-2007, 07:40 PM
Because Houston is the Golden Standard when it comes to making draft choices.No they arent.. but If the Fins wanted Ginn it was 9 or not at all.

Dors156
07-04-2007, 04:10 PM
The thing about Ginn thats almost definate is he will give us better field position. If he totally becomes a bust as a reciever he will still be good at the return game because if your that dominate in college your going to do well in the nfl.ala devon hester. I think our offense is good enough to score from starting at midfield

shastz
07-05-2007, 11:45 AM
The thing about Ginn thats almost definate is he will give us better field position. If he totally becomes a bust as a reciever he will still be good at the return game because if your that dominate in college your going to do well in the nfl.ala devon hester. I think our offense is good enough to score from starting at midfield


If thats all he can do then its a major wasted pick, you don't use a first round pick much less the 9th overall on kick returner no matter how good he is.

Silverphin
07-05-2007, 09:55 PM
If thats all he can do then its a major wasted pick, you don't use a first round pick much less the 9th overall on kick returner no matter how good he is.

Which is why we drafted him as a WIDE RECEIVER.

Dors156
07-05-2007, 10:31 PM
If thats all he can do then its a major wasted pick, you don't use a first round pick much less the 9th overall on kick returner no matter how good he is.

but the thing is ginnis a great return man and also a good reciever too who needs slight development. If he can beat a guy off the line of scrimmage and go long no one can catch him down the field in a sprint off like that.it would be six all the time

shastz
07-09-2007, 11:50 AM
but the thing is ginnis a great return man and also a good reciever too who needs slight development. If he can beat a guy off the line of scrimmage and go long no one can catch him down the field in a sprint off like that.it would be six all the time

Bethal Johnson was every bit as fast as Ginn is. Your over valuing pure speed, Jerry Rice never had great speed, nor did a ton of Hall of Fame WR's. My point is real simple, Ginn better have alot more than pure speed, because that alone won't cut it in the NFL.

Breed
07-10-2007, 01:49 PM
Am i the only one who is seeing his weird rehash of the bethel johnson saga repeat with ted ginn.

the comparision is so close both very fast in their class , both PR,KR who had success .Bethel was a better WR coming out of the draft then Ted but heck the concindence is scary.Both started injured too.....

Of the comments that you've made, this one probably takes the cake.

1. Ginn was thought by most to be the 2nd best WR in the 2007 draft.
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/rankings/wr.html
2. Johnson was considered a big reach in round 2. It's already been pointed out that Ginn was hightly sought after by the Texans and Rams (among other teams).
3. Ginn had more catches/yards/touchdowns in 3 years than Johnson did in 4 years playing at Texas A&M.
4. Not only did Ginn put up for better numbers, but he played far better competition schooling 1st rounders Aaron Ross and Leon Hall.
5. Ginn did all this with very little WR experience entering college, Johnson had far more experience at WR entering college.

Ginn's Sophomore year: 51 catches, 803 yards and 4 touchdowns (12 games)
Ginn's Junior year: 59 catches, 781 yards and 9 touchdowns (13 games)

Johnson's 2 best seasons were his freshmen and senior years, nothing in between those seasons were close.
Johnson's Freshmen season: 27 catches, 514 yards and 3 touchdowns (10 games)
Johnson's Senior season: 40 catches, 718 yards and 9 touchdowns (12 games)

Not to mention Johnson's advantage of playing in a pass happy offense.

As for comparing their injury history:

Ginn played 3 years of college ball and played a total of 37 games
Johnson played 4 years college ball and played a total of 35 games.

Ginn was the far better prospect.


Actually No he was not the #1 WR in his team.

2004
Ginn in his Freshman year: 25 catches, 359 yards and 2 touchdowns
Gonzalez in his Sophomore year: 8 catches, 179 yards and 2 touchdowns
Holmes in his Sophomore year: 55 catches, 769 yards and 7 touchdowns

2005
Ginn in his Sophomore year: 51 catches, 803 yards and 4 touchdowns
Gonzalez in his Junior year: 28 catches, 373 yards and 3 touchdowns
Holmes in his Junior year: 53 catches, 977 yards and 11 touchdowns

2006
Ginn in his Junior year: 59 catches, 781 yards and 9 touchdowns
Gonzalez in his Senior year: 51 catches, 734 yards and 8 touchdowns

Holmes was clearly the best WR in 2004 and 2005, but he was also a year ahead of Ginn with far more experience at WR. Even in Ginn's Sophomore season, he was the #2 option. This on a team with 3 1st round WR's. Ginn was clearly the best WR as a Junior in '06.

Greatness920
07-18-2007, 01:39 PM
bethel johnson johnson is bad.. an ginn isnt injured anymore