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ckb2001
06-18-2007, 03:10 PM
Imagine how this - an all-electric aircraft using superconducting motors - would revolutionize air travel, military technology, etc.. Oh, and there's no pollutants emitted too (and it would be much quieter).

http://www.physorg.com/news101391900.html

"An all-electric aircraft could soon appear over the horizon thanks to high-flying scientific research published today in the Institute of Physics' journal, Superconductor Science and Technology. The new type of aircraft, currently on the drawing board, could be far more efficient than conventional aircraft, produce less greenhouse emissions, and be quieter.

We could potentially build a superconducting motor and generator smaller than a gas turbine, which would make possible electric propulsion," says Masson. Electrical propulsion would not only decrease emissions but also reduce to a minimum the needs for maintenance as all hydraulic systems would be eliminated, he adds. The team has designed such systems with high fidelity models and optimization tools.

Masson adds that the team is now looking for an industrial partner to build a prototype of the superconducting "turbofan". "The technology is there," he says, "it is a matter of finding a source of funding."
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Eshlemon
06-18-2007, 03:27 PM
Neat research, when can I get one for my car? <rhetorical question ckb>

Miamian
06-18-2007, 04:13 PM
One of the posters raised the question that I would ask: speed. If they're using a turbofan, then it would be a propeller-type engine which travels considerably slower than a jet. It may not appeal to airlines.

On another note, I'm a Florida State alumnus so it's nice to read that that's where the research was conducted.

cnc66
06-18-2007, 04:16 PM
ambiant superconductivity would change everything

Miamian
06-18-2007, 04:20 PM
ambiant superconductivity would change everything
I'm really deficient in natural/physical science Marty. Could you elaborate?

ckb2001
06-18-2007, 04:29 PM
One of the posters raised the question that I would ask: speed. If they're using a turbofan, then it would be a propeller-type engine which travels considerably slower than a jet. It may not appeal to airlines.

On another note, I'm a Florida State alumnus so it's nice to read that that's where the research was conducted.

I don't get the question really. Many military aircraft use turbojets and many commercial aircraft use turbofans (which is based on a turbojet - this isn't a traditional "propellor" aircraft). Speed shouldn't be slower than what it is now.

I mean your F-16 and F-15 use turbojets engines.

Oh, and the reason superconductivity is so important is because electricity traveling through any wire loses energy in the process. Superconductors would revolutionize our world because they could transmit energy without losing it (at least almost none is lost). The problem of course is creating superconductors that can operate at room temperature. Currently, you need to make them REALLY cold before they become superconducting.

cnc66
06-18-2007, 04:41 PM
I'm really deficient in natural/physical science Marty. Could you elaborate?


this covers it pretty good;



Oh, and the reason superconductivity is so important is because electricity traveling through any wire loses energy in the process. Superconductors would revolutionize our world because they could transmit energy without losing it (at least almost none is lost). The problem of course is creating superconductors that can operate at room temperature. Currently, you need to make them REALLY cold before they become superconducting.


everything would instantly become more efficient, electric motors can become very small and very powerful, also I think the heat generated by the motors is also reduced. More efficient low voltages too, batteries would became longer lasting.

Miamian
06-19-2007, 03:40 PM
I see. I was looking at what one of the posters on that site had said.

ckparrothead
06-19-2007, 04:08 PM
So is anyone making any inroads on room temperature superconductors? CKB? You seem to be the authority, lol.

I hope you realize CKB that literally the only reason I click onto the PoFo is to see if you posted a new technology thread. You should have your own forum, lol.

Megatron
06-19-2007, 04:13 PM
So is anyone making any inroads on room temperature superconductors? CKB? You seem to be the authority, lol.

I hope you realize CKB that literally the only reason I click onto the PoFo is to see if you posted a new technology thread. You should have your own forum, lol.You mean it's not for my sparkling wit and personality?

ckb2001
06-19-2007, 07:36 PM
So is anyone making any inroads on room temperature superconductors? CKB? You seem to be the authority, lol.

I hope you realize CKB that literally the only reason I click onto the PoFo is to see if you posted a new technology thread. You should have your own forum, lol.

Hey thanks ckparrothead. I come nowhere near you in football knowledge, but at least I have my own area of expertise :) And Celtkin once did say in a PM to me that he had given thought to the idea of a science forum. Personally, I don't think a science-only forum would be that good. But, a science and religion forum definitely!! :D Well, I do think that would be a great addition, but that's not up to me..

Anyway, here's a link on high-temperature superconductors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_superconductor#History_and_Progress

"the record is still held by a cuprate-perovskite material (Tc=138 K, that is −135 °C),"
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That's obviously nowhere near where we need to be. We'll need it close to room temperature, or something more manageable like several degrees below zero.

ckb2001
06-19-2007, 07:37 PM
You mean it's not for my sparkling wit and personality?

Just a few more weeks Mega.. and it's Transformers time!! :) I doubt the real Megatron will have sparkling wit and personality :lol:

Celtkin
06-19-2007, 07:51 PM
So is anyone making any inroads on room temperature superconductors? CKB? You seem to be the authority, lol.

I hope you realize CKB that literally the only reason I click onto the PoFo is to see if you posted a new technology thread. You should have your own forum, lol.

This is why non-POFO threads belong in the Lounge. A lot of people never venture into POFO because of the nature of POFO and the in-fighting in there.

CrunchTime
06-20-2007, 12:00 AM
Superconductivity is a phenomenon observed in several metals and ceramic materials. When these materials are cooled to temperatures ranging from near absolute zero (-459 degrees Fahrenheit, 0 degrees Kelvin, -273 degrees Celsius) to liquid nitrogen temperatures (-321 F, 77 K, -196 C), they have no electrical resistance. The temperature at which electrical resistance is zero is called the critical temperature (Tc) and varies with the individual material. For practical purposes, critical temperatures are achieved by cooling materials with either liquid helium or liquid nitrogen. The following table shows the critical temperatures of various superconductors:
MaterialTypeTc(K)
Zincmetal0.88
Aluminummetal1.19
Tinmetal3.72
Mercurymetal4.15
YBa2Cu3O7ceramic90
TlBaCaCuOceramic125

Because these materials have no electrical resistance, meaning electrons can travel through them freely, they can carry large amounts of electrical current for long periods of time without losing energy as heat. Superconducting loops of wire have been shown to carry electrical currents for several years with no measurable loss. This property has implications for electrical power transmission (http://www.howstuffworks.com/power.htm), if transmission lines can be made of superconducting ceramics, and for electrical-storage device

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question610.htm

Obviously lowering the temperature to those levels is challenging.The research appears to be heading towards finding better superconducting materials and progress has been made in the ceramics field.

If that technology could be mastered it could solve many of the energy needs of the future.Exciting technology :)

Megatron
06-20-2007, 01:36 AM
Just a few more weeks Mega.. and it's Transformers time!! :) I doubt the real Megatron will have sparkling wit and personality :lol: What's not witty about destroying all humans? I think it's a laugh riot.:wink:

ckparrothead
06-20-2007, 10:12 AM
Hey thanks ckparrothead. I come nowhere near you in football knowledge, but at least I have my own area of expertise :) And Celtkin once did say in a PM to me that he had given thought to the idea of a science forum. Personally, I don't think a science-only forum would be that good. But, a science and religion forum definitely!! :D Well, I do think that would be a great addition, but that's not up to me..

Anyway, here's a link on high-temperature superconductors:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-temperature_superconductor#History_and_Progress

"the record is still held by a cuprate-perovskite material (Tc=138 K, that is −135 °C),"
----------------


That's obviously nowhere near where we need to be. We'll need it close to room temperature, or something more manageable like several degrees below zero.

So what's the catch on the superconductor that Muller and whats his name found in 1986? Is it too expensive to make? Too rare a material?

ckb2001
06-20-2007, 10:36 AM
So what's the catch on the superconductor that Muller and whats his name found in 1986? Is it too expensive to make? Too rare a material?

Cool you know about Muller and co. But, that was inventing a superconductor that worked at ~30K, so just 30 degrees Celsius above absolute zero, or -240 C!!

The problem with superconductors that operate at too cold a temperature is the cost of cooling them to that temperature. That requires lots of energy and makes them cost-inefficient. The materials themselves can if necessary be mass-produced (Muller's was a ceramic anyway) - it's the cooling that's the problem.