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BAMAPHIN 22
06-24-2007, 10:28 PM
The promotional materials for the "Scared Faithless" concert show a stern man gripping a sign that declares, "GOD HATES FAGS." The provocative image evokes Fred Phelps, a Kansas pastor whose incendiary protests draw the ire of Christians who support and oppose gay rights.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/06/24/homosexuality-still-divides-christians/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beliefnet.com%2Fstory%2F220%2Fstory_22072_1.html&frame=true

ABrownLamp
06-24-2007, 10:50 PM
I dont understand the religious fascination with sexuality. I mean there are like half a dozen passages about it in the entire Bible. If what sex you sleep with was that important to God wouldnt it be in the Ten Commandments? These people are nuts!

HysterikiLL
06-24-2007, 11:10 PM
I dont understand the religious fascination with sexuality. I mean there are like half a dozen passages about it in the entire Bible. If what sex you sleep with was that important to God wouldnt it be in the Ten Commandments? These people are nuts!

yeah, that's a pretty good point

DonShula84
06-24-2007, 11:15 PM
I dont understand the religious fascination with sexuality. I mean there are like half a dozen passages about it in the entire Bible. If what sex you sleep with was that important to God wouldnt it be in the Ten Commandments? These people are nuts!


It might be less that even but I havent read the entire Bible and it's been a long time since I read any of it.

tylerdolphin
06-25-2007, 10:15 PM
One of Paul's letters talks about homosexuality (I think)

guatemalanfan
06-25-2007, 10:55 PM
I dont understand the religious fascination with sexuality. I mean there are like half a dozen passages about it in the entire Bible. If what sex you sleep with was that important to God wouldnt it be in the Ten Commandments? These people are nuts!
I think that you can apply the 6th commanment to that.

DonShula84
06-26-2007, 12:40 AM
I think that you can apply the 6th commanment to that.

Legalize gay marriage, problem solved.

ABrownLamp
06-26-2007, 11:14 AM
I think that you can apply the 6th commanment to that.

How can two adults who are single, not seeing anyone else, and having cosentual sex with one another constitute adultery?

guatemalanfan
06-26-2007, 01:40 PM
How can two adults who are single, not seeing anyone else, and having cosentual sex with one another constitute adultery?
go down to that question : Are homosexual acts offences against chastity?

http://www.catholic.org.uk/library/catechism/6thcommandment.shtml

Stitches
06-26-2007, 01:47 PM
go down to that question : Are homosexual acts offences against chastity?

http://www.catholic.org.uk/library/catechism/6thcommandment.shtml

Last I checked adultery is the 6th commandment, and the defenition of chastity is pretty much completely unrelated to adultery except that both are on the subject of sex.

guatemalanfan
06-26-2007, 01:58 PM
Last I checked adultery is the 6th commandment, and the defenition of chastity is pretty much completely unrelated to adultery except that both are on the subject of sex.


The Sixth Commandment
‘You shall not commit adultery’.
<B>What are we commanded by the sixth Commandment?

</B>We are called to lead a chaste life, according to our particular state of life.

Stitches
06-26-2007, 02:12 PM
The Sixth Commandment

‘You shall not commit adultery’.

<B>What are we commanded by the sixth Commandment?
</B>We are called to lead a chaste life, according to our particular state of life.





Well the commandment as it appears in 'the 10' is 'you shall not commit adultery.' It seems pretty self explanatory as to what that means. You obviously want to read more into it though.

ABrownLamp
06-26-2007, 02:16 PM
The Sixth Commandment



‘You shall not commit adultery’.


<B>What are we commanded by the sixth Commandment?
</B>We are called to lead a chaste life, according to our particular state of life.




Chastity and adultery are two separate issues. It doesnt say chasitiy in the Ten Commandments. It says adultery.

There is a clear distinction between the two words. If God meant chastity, he would have said chastity. But he didn't. He said adultery.

guatemalanfan
06-28-2007, 10:50 AM
Chastity and adultery are two separate issues. It doesnt say chasitiy in the Ten Commandments. It says adultery.

There is a clear distinction between the two words. If God meant chastity, he would have said chastity. But he didn't. He said adultery.


Well im not sure about that. because in spanish doesn't talk about adultery.

In spanish is: No cometeras actos impuros. Which means. You shall not commit impure acts. That is why i mentioned the 6th commandment in the first place. and you have to be chast to be pure.

finswin56
06-28-2007, 11:04 AM
I am very curious about the Latin translation of the 6th commandment. Things often get manipulated over time. Can anyone translate Latin?

Motion
06-28-2007, 01:43 PM
I am very curious about the Latin translation of the 6th commandment. Things often get manipulated over time. Can anyone translate Latin?

Somewhat, took 4 years of it in high school.

finswin56
06-28-2007, 02:23 PM
Somewhat, took 4 years of it in high school.

Wow, they taught Latin in your HS? That's impressive. Private?

Pagan
06-28-2007, 02:34 PM
Wow...you guys can be chaste all you want.

I'm having too much fun. :D

ATLFINFAN
06-28-2007, 02:53 PM
OK I will jump in here for a min. For the record.........God said in his word that homosexuality is an abomination. It is not natural and those who practice it will suffer the consequences. Woman was made for man, not man for man.
I know this will ruffel some feathers but, if you legalize this, where does it end. Next, the pedifile will say he is being discriminated against. Do you use the same....Legalize it and that solves the problem. Sorry but the VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS say NO to legalizing it. THAT SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!!!

Stitches
06-28-2007, 03:01 PM
OK I will jump in here for a min. For the record.........God said in his word that homosexuality is an abomination. It is not natural and those who practice it will suffer the consequences. Woman was made for man, not man for man.
I know this will ruffel some feathers but, if you legalize this, where does it end. Next, the pedifile will say he is being discriminated against. Do you use the same....Legalize it and that solves the problem. Sorry but the VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS say NO to legalizing it. THAT SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!!!

Difference there is homosexual couples are consenting adults.

ATLFINFAN
06-28-2007, 03:31 PM
Difference there is homosexual couples are consenting adults.


So that makes it ok, or right? That is a pretty dangerous rule of law to live by.

Boik14
06-28-2007, 04:00 PM
So legalize it and let people suffer the consequences. It doesnt affect me or you either way. Youre straight and happy with it and I feel the same but if someone else feels differently and is gay well thats for them to deal with not you or me. Personally i can care less. I dont understand what the big deal is with letting people live their lives the way they are happiest. Live your life but let other people live their own as well.

ABrownLamp
06-28-2007, 04:18 PM
OK I will jump in here for a min. For the record.........God said in his word that homosexuality is an abomination. It is not natural and those who practice it will suffer the consequences. Woman was made for man, not man for man.
I know this will ruffel some feathers but, if you legalize this, where does it end. Next, the pedifile will say he is being discriminated against. Do you use the same....Legalize it and that solves the problem. Sorry but the VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS say NO to legalizing it. THAT SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!!!

Heres the problem...gay people are allowed to live together. They're allowed to sleep with one another. They're allowed to get artificially inseminated. Theyre allwed to have a child. Theyer allowed to raise a family.

So what exactly is it that you are fighting for here? Over a signature on a peice of paper? You're fighting for them not to get married status social security and medical benefits? Honestly, I dont think most of you even know what youre fighting for. It's just a symbolic fight for you that makes little sense logically.

ABrownLamp
06-28-2007, 04:19 PM
So that makes it ok, or right? That is a pretty dangerous rule of law to live by.

That two consenting adults you dont know sleep together? I'm trying to figure out how that affects your life

Rafiki
06-28-2007, 08:25 PM
One of Paul's letters talks about homosexuality (I think)

He does speak about it in Romans. Jesus himself, however, apparently was never worried about homosexuality specifically. All he said was that he was to fulfill the law of Moses and not change it. The law of Moses was strictly anti-homosexual.

ATLFINFAN
06-29-2007, 06:38 PM
Heres the problem...gay people are allowed to live together. They're allowed to sleep with one another. They're allowed to get artificially inseminated. Theyre allwed to have a child. Theyer allowed to raise a family.

So what exactly is it that you are fighting for here? Over a signature on a peice of paper? You're fighting for them not to get married status social security and medical benefits? Honestly, I dont think most of you even know what youre fighting for. It's just a symbolic fight for you that makes little sense logically.

I like the way you tried to turn this around. It is the gay / lesbian agenda that is doing the fighting. We already have the 'moral view'. Yes, I know you wont like that either but, it is totally a morality issue. I am a Christian. I try to live by the BIBLE. GOD has already set the morality standards. I am just trying to live by them. Homosexuality is wrong no matter how you want to 'spin it'. Whether you agree or not, GOD says it is wrong. TO me, that settles it.

ABrownLamp
06-29-2007, 07:19 PM
I like the way you tried to turn this around. It is the gay / lesbian agenda that is doing the fighting. We already have the 'moral view'. Yes, I know you wont like that either but, it is totally a morality issue. I am a Christian. I try to live by the BIBLE. GOD has already set the morality standards. I am just trying to live by them. Homosexuality is wrong no matter how you want to 'spin it'. Whether you agree or not, GOD says it is wrong. TO me, that settles it.

Ok well you certainly did not address anything I mentioned which is not surprising since your argument is based on emotion instead of logic. Its a tactic my ex girlfriend used all the time.

I mean we're talking about what...2 or 3 lines in the entire Bible about homosexuality? So they are immoral, right? Meanwhile you most certainly have violated the Ten Commandments (a list of religious and moral imperatives as determined by God)...and that makes YOU what? Immoral! WHere is your outrage against jealousy!? Or people not keeping the Sabbath holy?! No, you do those things!

I mean this referencing the Bible stuff for homosexuality as immoral is so bizarre. We're all sinners, according to God...so the question is why do the religious focus on those two or three lines as being so important? And the answer is because it's real easy to focus on people who are different. It's such a disgusting tactic. The Bible calls them sinners. And the Bible calls your actions sin. How do you reconcile those facts? You are equally immoral. It's like the murderer shaking his head in disgust at the rapist!

Stitches
06-29-2007, 08:40 PM
Ok well you certainly did not address anything I mentioned which is not surprising since your argument is based on emotion instead of logic. Its a tactic my ex girlfriend used all the time.

I mean we're talking about what...2 or 3 lines in the entire Bible about homosexuality? So they are immoral, right? Meanwhile you most certainly have violated the Ten Commandments (a list of religious and moral imperatives as determined by God)...and that makes YOU what? Immoral! WHere is your outrage against jealousy!? Or people not keeping the Sabbath holy?! No, you do those things!

I mean this referencing the Bible stuff for homosexuality as immoral is so bizarre. We're all sinners, according to God...so the question is why do the religious focus on those two or three lines as being so important? And the answer is because it's real easy to focus on people who are different. It's such a disgusting tactic. The Bible calls them sinners. And the Bible calls your actions sin. How do you reconcile those facts? You are equally immoral. It's like the murderer shaking his head in disgust at the rapist!

I'd give you a standing ovation, but a one man grandstand just doesn't seem to do it justice.

Here you go anyways.

:clap:

Joker2thief
06-29-2007, 10:37 PM
I'd give you a standing ovation, but a one man grandstand just doesn't seem to do it justice.

Here you go anyways.

:clap:

:clapping::clapping::clap::clap:

njfinfan
06-30-2007, 03:24 AM
Ok well you certainly did not address anything I mentioned which is not surprising since your argument is based on emotion instead of logic. Its a tactic my ex girlfriend used all the time.

I mean we're talking about what...2 or 3 lines in the entire Bible about homosexuality? So they are immoral, right? Meanwhile you most certainly have violated the Ten Commandments (a list of religious and moral imperatives as determined by God)...and that makes YOU what? Immoral! WHere is your outrage against jealousy!? Or people not keeping the Sabbath holy?! No, you do those things!

I mean this referencing the Bible stuff for homosexuality as immoral is so bizarre. We're all sinners, according to God...so the question is why do the religious focus on those two or three lines as being so important? And the answer is because it's real easy to focus on people who are different. It's such a disgusting tactic. The Bible calls them sinners. And the Bible calls your actions sin. How do you reconcile those facts? You are equally immoral. It's like the murderer shaking his head in disgust at the rapist!

Folks - I'm going to weigh in here and not just to tell you guys to keep this on topic - I'm going to go briefly off topic - and stop getting personal, and you guys never see me respond in here - it gets too heated.

I am a 30-something very religious, happily married female who used to despise gay people and everything they stand for. They terrified me and I used to throw the bible thing around too because it's against my religion. And then I met Justin - my best friend of 3 years. Not outwardly gay, so it took me about 2 months to find out that he was indeed as I used to call it "that way."

Wonderful, sweet person. Fantastic heart and soul. Would give you the shirt off his back and anything else you asked for. Well, just let me tell you, he turned my opinion completely around. Why and how? Well, perhaps it's just his personality, perhaps the fact that he's been in a monogamous relationship with a male for the past 4 years, perhaps the fact that he just enlisted in the Navy for 5 years and I'm terrified for him. I'm terrified for the fact that once the other guys find out "how" he is, he'll get his keester kicked or more, maybe he'll get thrown out of the military (although I'm not sure if they can do that), and my worst fear of all is that he'll end up in Iraq. He's only 22 - he enlisted to try and make a better life for himself and Danny. I'm also terrified that he'll never be able to live together on a military base with his partner, that he'll have to "hide" who he is and that would be a terrible, terrible shame.

I don't know if I'll ever see Justin again. But one thing is for sure - he made me a better person because of what a good person he is. Kind of takes the blinders off, if you will. My opinion now? - let them live their lives and I'll live mine. Nothing they do affects me at all. I'll have to reconcile that with "my" God when my time comes, I guess.

Please don't attack me for my views or I'll have to ban you. :D

Now back on topic.

Sponge
06-30-2007, 10:46 AM
OK I will jump in here for a min. For the record.........God said in his word that homosexuality is an abomination. It is not natural and those who practice it will suffer the consequences. Woman was made for man, not man for man.
I know this will ruffel some feathers but, if you legalize this, where does it end. Next, the pedifile will say he is being discriminated against. Do you use the same....Legalize it and that solves the problem. Sorry but the VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS say NO to legalizing it. THAT SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!!!

If the Bible is to be taken literally as the word of God, it also says that it is ok to have slaves, as long as they are from another country. However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. Leviticus

The abomination is bigotry and the desire of many to force others to live by their values.

Tying pedophilia to homosexuality, while predictable as a tactic, is not supported by the evidence as the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual.

Also, I don't know many women, Christian or otherwise, who are ok with the concept that they were made for man.

DolfinDave
06-30-2007, 01:42 PM
How can people justify their arguments on this topic in reguard to what the law should be in this country by their religion? Doesn't that raise kind of a problem with a certain Amendment? Even with the majority of this country being Christian, and assuming most of Christianity opposed homosexuality?

adamprez2003
06-30-2007, 02:05 PM
Religion promotes life and since you can't conceive life through homosexual acts they condemn it - to the death -lol. Why waste precious food on those that won't contribute to the furthering of the human race

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 02:58 PM
Ok well you certainly did not address anything I mentioned which is not surprising since your argument is based on emotion instead of logic. Its a tactic my ex girlfriend used all the time.

I mean we're talking about what...2 or 3 lines in the entire Bible about homosexuality? So they are immoral, right? Meanwhile you most certainly have violated the Ten Commandments (a list of religious and moral imperatives as determined by God)...and that makes YOU what? Immoral! WHere is your outrage against jealousy!? Or people not keeping the Sabbath holy?! No, you do those things!

I mean this referencing the Bible stuff for homosexuality as immoral is so bizarre. We're all sinners, according to God...so the question is why do the religious focus on those two or three lines as being so important? And the answer is because it's real easy to focus on people who are different. It's such a disgusting tactic. The Bible calls them sinners. And the Bible calls your actions sin. How do you reconcile those facts? You are equally immoral. It's like the murderer shaking his head in disgust at the rapist!

Well, I assume you have no use for the Bible or GOD, for that matter. THAT is entirely up to you. Saying that I use emotion when going by the BIBLE, is not a realistic argument. I dont see how it is emotion at all. It is FACT. You can call it whatever you like. GOD didnt say it was immoral, HE said it was an abomination. HE HATES IT. Does HE hate sin, yes. But it seems to be on a different level, TO HIM. There are things mentioned in the Bible that he wont put up with.
I havent counted how many times it is mentioned in the Bible, that isnt the point. The FACT that it is in there, and that is the topic at hand, makes it worth ME acknowledging it. I dont go around pointing fingers. That isnt my place. If someone asks, I will answer the question.
You have no idea what I do on the sabbath. You also have no idea if I am equally immoral or not. You dont have any idea who I am. So who is out of line here. It sounds to me like you have a pre-rehearsed argument for whoever has a different view than yours. The normal tactic of proponents of this, seem to go into the attack mode right away and try to turn the focus off of the subject, and onto the person with the opposing view. The THREAD is titled........Homosexuality still devides christians. The fact on that is, it doesnt divide CHRISTIANS. It might divide people, but not christians. I thought I would weigh in on the subject. Not an individual. To me, it isnt personal. I dont hate homosexuals. BUT, what they do is wrong. All this political stuff didnt bother me until they decided to teach it in the schools. That is forsing THEIR lifestyle or belief, on children, whether the parents are in favor of the subject being taught in school or not. That isnt right either. When they decided to stop prayer in schools, but THEN decided to teach the opposite view point, I had a problem with that.
For the record. I have done my share of wrong things. I have asked for GODs forgiveness. I cant then turn around and keep doing the same thing over and over and then keep asking for his forgiveness again. Eventually, it becomes a routine, and not from the heart. When it becomes routine, you are in trouble. You arent really sorry anymore. Then your priorities are messed up. That is the difference here. A liar can be forgiven. So can a homosexual. I dont comdemn them, but I have a right and responsibility to voice my opinion like anyone else. You dont have to like it. But that is ok. I am still not going to make it personal.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 03:17 PM
If the Bible is to be taken literally as the word of God, it also says that it is ok to have slaves, as long as they are from another country. However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. Leviticus

The abomination is bigotry and the desire of many to force others to live by their values.

Tying pedophilia to homosexuality, while predictable as a tactic, is not supported by the evidence as the majority of pedophiles are heterosexual.

Also, I don't know many women, Christian or otherwise, who are ok with the concept that they were made for man.

Ok, your turn.
The problem, as I see it, is that THEY are forcing their values on the MAJORITY. Telling the majority that their lifestyle has to be accepted.

An answer to your next line. WHAT EVIDENCE. It doesnt matter if they are heter. or not. Surely that part doesnt make a diff. to you , does it? The gay and les. community are telling us it is our responsibility to accept them. The pedifile will eventually do the same thing. They are being discriminated against,and it isnt fair. Who are you to say they are wrong. It is the same argument every time. Well, you accepted the G and L. lifestyle but not mine. That is discrimination. YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT.
Next, That is fine. Just because you dont know many, doesnt mean it isnt so.
And the part from Leviticus, what does slavery have to do with homosexuallity. You can use comparisons, but I cant. Thats a great argument, or should I say, that was predictable as a tactic.

Look everyone, I am not TELLING you that YOU cant accept the lifestyle. I am saying I wont.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 03:22 PM
So legalize it and let people suffer the consequences. It doesnt affect me or you either way. Youre straight and happy with it and I feel the same but if someone else feels differently and is gay well thats for them to deal with not you or me. Personally i can care less. I dont understand what the big deal is with letting people live their lives the way they are happiest. Live your life but let other people live their own as well.

Just to make a point on your outlook. Live and let live........I am sure you arent complaining about the illegal immigration problem we have in this country now, are you. Or is it just live and let live, on that OTHER subject only. If you see someone about to cross the street, standing right next to you, and a car is coming, are you going to just let them walk in front of it. I wouldnt. It is a responsibility.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 03:26 PM
How can people justify their arguments on this topic in reguard to what the law should be in this country by their religion? Doesn't that raise kind of a problem with a certain Amendment? Even with the majority of this country being Christian, and assuming most of Christianity opposed homosexuality?


I believe 'they' are trying to ADD a law. From what I remember, it has always been up to vote on..... ' should this be made legal'? Who is doing the changing.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 03:28 PM
Religion promotes life and since you can't conceive life through homosexual acts they condemn it - to the death -lol. Why waste precious food on those that won't contribute to the furthering of the human race

That is a new one.

Alex44
06-30-2007, 03:46 PM
OK I will jump in here for a min. For the record.........God said in his word that homosexuality is an abomination. It is not natural and those who practice it will suffer the consequences. Woman was made for man, not man for man.
I know this will ruffel some feathers but, if you legalize this, where does it end. Next, the pedifile will say he is being discriminated against. Do you use the same....Legalize it and that solves the problem. Sorry but the VAST MAJORITY of AMERICANS say NO to legalizing it. THAT SHOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!!!

I'm going to try and reply to this without getting banned for what I say.

It is people who look down on others and oppress them that makes the world a horrible place. NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES IN GOD. In your statement not only are you looking down on gays but also on women. I'm not even going to argue the existence of God.....I'll save that for somewhere appropriate.

Women were not made for men, they were made in the same way men were made and have the exact same rights not be be looked down upon and oppressed as you are doing.

How dare you even compare a gay to a pedophile, they are nothing alike. I can't even say anything about this without exploding at you and violating the TOS right now and so I won't....later when I'm cooled down from your offensive post.

All your religion has taught you apparently is how to look down upon others who are not like you and oppress their rights, and for what? Your imaginary friend God.

ABrownLamp
06-30-2007, 04:41 PM
Well, I assume you have no use for the Bible or GOD, for that matter. THAT is entirely up to you. Saying that I use emotion when going by the BIBLE, is not a realistic argument. I dont see how it is emotion at all. It is FACT. You can call it whatever you like. GOD didnt say it was immoral, HE said it was an abomination. HE HATES IT. Does HE hate sin, yes. But it seems to be on a different level, TO HIM. There are things mentioned in the Bible that he wont put up with.
I havent counted how many times it is mentioned in the Bible, that isnt the point. The FACT that it is in there, and that is the topic at hand, makes it worth ME acknowledging it. I dont go around pointing fingers. That isnt my place. If someone asks, I will answer the question.
You have no idea what I do on the sabbath. You also have no idea if I am equally immoral or not. You dont have any idea who I am. So who is out of line here. It sounds to me like you have a pre-rehearsed argument for whoever has a different view than yours. The normal tactic of proponents of this, seem to go into the attack mode right away and try to turn the focus off of the subject, and onto the person with the opposing view. The THREAD is titled........Homosexuality still devides christians. The fact on that is, it doesnt divide CHRISTIANS. It might divide people, but not christians. I thought I would weigh in on the subject. Not an individual. To me, it isnt personal. I dont hate homosexuals. BUT, what they do is wrong. All this political stuff didnt bother me until they decided to teach it in the schools. That is forsing THEIR lifestyle or belief, on children, whether the parents are in favor of the subject being taught in school or not. That isnt right either. When they decided to stop prayer in schools, but THEN decided to teach the opposite view point, I had a problem with that.
For the record. I have done my share of wrong things. I have asked for GODs forgiveness. I cant then turn around and keep doing the same thing over and over and then keep asking for his forgiveness again. Eventually, it becomes a routine, and not from the heart. When it becomes routine, you are in trouble. You arent really sorry anymore. Then your priorities are messed up. That is the difference here. A liar can be forgiven. So can a homosexual. I dont comdemn them, but I have a right and responsibility to voice my opinion like anyone else. You dont have to like it. But that is ok. I am still not going to make it personal.

Well it certainly isnt logic that dictates your beliefs since you have to suspend reality and natural laws in order to believe the stories in the Bible. A 600 year old man builds an arc, a talking burning bush, a man livving in a whale's belly, etc. And just because you say it's a fact certainly does not make it so. No more than any other religious person saying their beliefs are truth. And why is their religion wrong and yours right? Because you can just feel you are right. You just know...ya, that's emotion!

Again, you yet to address the question I have asked at least twice now...if homosexuality is so important to God why is there no mention of it in the Ten Commandments?

Also, I dont remember a class in high school where they discussed how wonderful homosexuality is. Youre just making things up now. Do you honestly beleive they "teach" homosexuality in a classroom. Man you guys must live a real paranoid world.

ABrownLamp
06-30-2007, 04:53 PM
Ok, your turn.
The problem, as I see it, is that THEY are forcing their values on the MAJORITY. Telling the majority that their lifestyle has to be accepted.

An answer to your next line. WHAT EVIDENCE. It doesnt matter if they are heter. or not. Surely that part doesnt make a diff. to you , does it? The gay and les. community are telling us it is our responsibility to accept them. The pedifile will eventually do the same thing. They are being discriminated against,and it isnt fair. Who are you to say they are wrong. It is the same argument every time. Well, you accepted the G and L. lifestyle but not mine. That is discrimination. YOU DONT HAVE THE RIGHT.
Next, That is fine. Just because you dont know many, doesnt mean it isnt so.
And the part from Leviticus, what does slavery have to do with homosexuallity. You can use comparisons, but I cant. Thats a great argument, or should I say, that was predictable as a tactic.

Look everyone, I am not TELLING you that YOU cant accept the lifestyle. I am saying I wont.

What do you mean "they" are forcing their values on everyone else? Is the House of Reps and the Senate made up of gays? Is everyone who supports their rights gay? I'm not gay, but I support equal right for equal people. I mean gays are what, 5% of the population, max. Get a grip on reality and stop making things up about gay people having all this power in Washington.

I dont know why you have a problem discerning between consensual sex and rape. Legalized polygamy as a slippery slope is a good argument to make against gay rights. But to make some bizarre connection between gays and rapists and bestiality or whatever is pretty silly.

DolfinDave
06-30-2007, 05:07 PM
I believe 'they' are trying to ADD a law. From what I remember, it has always been up to vote on..... ' should this be made legal'? Who is doing the changing.

Well I think when we talk about gay marriage and legal stuff like that, I think it comes down to an individual rights issue, not simply a moral issue. Say something gets to the supreme court and they have to decide whether gay people can get married. Do you think they will decide the issue based on what the bible says? I think they may take into account what the majority of people think. But I don't think it will influence a decision too much. I think they will look at the letter of the law and make a decision based mostly on that. Therefore I don't see the need to sit here and argue about the morality of it or the sanctity of marriage. And the idea of marriage being sacred in our society is kind of a joke to me when you have half of them ending in divorce.

Dolphin39
06-30-2007, 05:14 PM
Homosexuals do have an agenda and have been pressing that agenda for years. Yes, they do have many of the liberal politicians on their side trying to legalize/legitimize their "sinful acts" by passing laws giving them the right to marry.:(

God does not, and will not condone homosexuality. It is a sin, like any other sin. I don't see anyone wanting to condone other sinful acts like stealing or telling lies.

God most definitely will hold those accountable who practice and promote homosexuality, whether anyone believes this or not won't change the fact that it will happen one bit.

I wish all, including homosexuals, would turn away from Satan and toward God to repent of their sins.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 09:02 PM
What do you mean "they" are forcing their values on everyone else? Is the House of Reps and the Senate made up of gays? Is everyone who supports their rights gay? I'm not gay, but I support equal right for equal people. I mean gays are what, 5% of the population, max. Get a grip on reality and stop making things up about gay people having all this power in Washington.

I dont know why you have a problem discerning between consensual sex and rape. Legalized polygamy as a slippery slope is a good argument to make against gay rights. But to make some bizarre connection between gays and rapists and bestiality or whatever is pretty silly.

I believe I have a grip. I also do believe the Gay agenda has been voted down in all but 2 state votes. OVERWELMINGLY. 70 to 80 % in fact. But SOMEONE keeps crying foul. ALso, I dont remember EVER mentioning WASH. in any of my posts, or rapist or beastiality, but I guess some people have to 'make it up as they go.'
This country was founded on Bible principles. THAT IS FACT. You can twist that any way you want to, but that doesnt change a thing.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 09:26 PM
I'm going to try and reply to this without getting banned for what I say.

It is people who look down on others and oppress them that makes the world a horrible place. NOT EVERYONE BELIEVES IN GOD. In your statement not only are you looking down on gays but also on women. I'm not even going to argue the existence of God.....I'll save that for somewhere appropriate.

Women were not made for men, they were made in the same way men were made and have the exact same rights not be be looked down upon and oppressed as you are doing.

How dare you even compare a gay to a pedophile, they are nothing alike. I can't even say anything about this without exploding at you and violating the TOS right now and so I won't....later when I'm cooled down from your offensive post.

All your religion has taught you apparently is how to look down upon others who are not like you and oppress their rights, and for what? Your imaginary friend God.

Go chill young man. Apparently you havent read the previous posts, but that is OK. I dont remember ANYONE on here looking down on women. You are also taking what was said about 'gay and pedophile' completely out of context. Start from the THREAD TITLE and go from there. I am not 'oppressing ' anyone. This thread is about the Christians divided by homosexuality. Since you apparently arent a believer....................I am not surprised with your outlook.

IMHO, the youth of today are reaping the consequences of ol 'whats her name' s agenda of getting prayer out of schools. It is only going to get worse. That doesnt mean I have to change to your views. Remember, I have a right to believe what I want to also, and THAT is the subject of this thread. When you get all hot and bothered because I think a certain way, you want to tell me I dont have a right to think that way. Who is the hypocrite. How dare ME?????
And furthermore, while I am at it. People NOT believing in GOD, is the reason this world is in the mess it is. Would you rather everyone believe in alla. Maybe they would stop killing innocent people if that were the case. People selling out on there moral values is also killing this world. But, for now, life goes on.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 09:42 PM
Well I think when we talk about gay marriage and legal stuff like that, I think it comes down to an individual rights issue, not simply a moral issue. Say something gets to the supreme court and they have to decide whether gay people can get married. Do you think they will decide the issue based on what the bible says? I think they may take into account what the majority of people think. But I don't think it will influence a decision too much. I think they will look at the letter of the law and make a decision based mostly on that. Therefore I don't see the need to sit here and argue about the morality of it or the sanctity of marriage. And the idea of marriage being sacred in our society is kind of a joke to me when you have half of them ending in divorce.

Well, finally, a post that doesnt have a 'talking down to someone' tone. I applaud you for that. Actually I think it IS a morality issue. IT is also a legal issue in that I believe it is against the law just about everywhere to live that way. That isnt exactly what I wanted to say, but I dont know how to say it better without crossing the line. I also think it is wishful thinking to believe the Supreme Court would rule on the 'letter of the law', as you put it. They have been 'MAKING' law for far to long now. That isnt there job or RIGHT. Off topic for a sec. but, where could they possibly get the RIGHT to pass a law that it was OK for a local government to TAKE someones property, pay the citizen what THEY think it is worth, and then turn around and make a profit from it by selling it to a developer to put up WHATEVER. That blows my mind. sorry, but the S.C. has gone haywire. They are doing what they dont have a right to. They dont have the power to MAKE LAW.
Your last point about half of marriages ending in divorce........ that is true, but that doesnt mean, to me anyway, that people should stop getting married. They should start getting married for the right reason. And make it work. Dont look for the 'RIGHT PERSON'. BE the right person.

ATLFINFAN
06-30-2007, 10:00 PM
Homosexuals do have an agenda and have been pressing that agenda for years. Yes, they do have many of the liberal politicians on their side trying to legalize/legitimize their "sinful acts" by passing laws giving them the right to marry.:(

God does not, and will not condone homosexuality. It is a sin, like any other sin. I don't see anyone wanting to condone other sinful acts like stealing or telling lies.

God most definitely will hold those accountable who practice and promote homosexuality, whether anyone believes this or not won't change the fact that it will happen one bit.

I wish all, including homosexuals, would turn away from Satan and toward God to repent of their sins.

Thanks for the help. It is lonely over here.

Yes they definately have an agenda. IT is being pushed on us and most people dont even know it is happening. Do you think it is a coincidence that almost all the shows on tv and HBO with this story line win awards. WHY do you think that is. They just make those shows better than any others? I dont think so. It has been a while, but one year, 5 shows with that subject matter, won the awards in what ever catagory they were put up for. It is a slow process, but by the promoters on HERE, it seems to be working. Sorry but, I AINT SELLIN OUT. As the saying goes, if you dont stand for something, you will fall for anything. I personally prefer to get along with everyone, but it wont be by just ignoring it and hoping it goes away. If you dont want to know, dont ask, cause I am not going to lie in my answer.

DolfinDave
07-01-2007, 03:08 AM
Well, finally, a post that doesnt have a 'talking down to someone' tone. I applaud you for that. Actually I think it IS a morality issue. IT is also a legal issue in that I believe it is against the law just about everywhere to live that way. That isnt exactly what I wanted to say, but I dont know how to say it better without crossing the line. I also think it is wishful thinking to believe the Supreme Court would rule on the 'letter of the law', as you put it. They have been 'MAKING' law for far to long now. That isnt there job or RIGHT. Off topic for a sec. but, where could they possibly get the RIGHT to pass a law that it was OK for a local government to TAKE someones property, pay the citizen what THEY think it is worth, and then turn around and make a profit from it by selling it to a developer to put up WHATEVER. That blows my mind. sorry, but the S.C. has gone haywire. They are doing what they dont have a right to. They dont have the power to MAKE LAW.
Your last point about half of marriages ending in divorce........ that is true, but that doesnt mean, to me anyway, that people should stop getting married. They should start getting married for the right reason. And make it work. Dont look for the 'RIGHT PERSON'. BE the right person.

Yeah I don't have a problem with people getting married. I just have a nice giggle when its made out to be such a holy thing. I can understand that it is. But it just doesn't come across that way.

And you very well may be right about the Supreme Court. And now that it seems Alito and Roberts are the conservatives Bush hoped for and Kennedy has chosen to side with them on things, they might come out on the conservative side on the marriage issue. Its certainly no given that they will go by the letter of the law like I said. That's just my opinion on the matter, or maybe its just a bit of wishful thinking. I'd probably be ok with it either way, as long as they handle it the right way. Like some argue, it doesn't affect me personally. But then again, I might have a kid that turns out to be gay, and I might feel differently about it then.

ABrownLamp
07-01-2007, 12:16 PM
I believe I have a grip. I also do believe the Gay agenda has been voted down in all but 2 state votes. OVERWELMINGLY. 70 to 80 % in fact. But SOMEONE keeps crying foul. ALso, I dont remember EVER mentioning WASH. in any of my posts, or rapist or beastiality, but I guess some people have to 'make it up as they go.'
This country was founded on Bible principles. THAT IS FACT. You can twist that any way you want to, but that doesnt change a thing.

You know, it's really difficult to have a debate with someone when I keep responding to what you say and you flat out ignore questions I ask. Questions that I have specifically requested a response from.

The reason I keep asking you these questions is because I think the gay immorality debate is an emotional reaction to people who are different. I dont think there is any real logic behind it. And when I ask you questions about the Ten Commandments and the absence of anything relating to homosexuality in it, it's because it is a follow up question (an obvious one) to your interpretation of God's view on gays. Now, when you continue to ignore that question, not only are you confirming what I already suspected about the anti gay position, but you are also doing yourself a disservice (by not even understanding Gods composition). I mean do you think God omitted that by accident? Do you think he made a mistake? Do you wonder why there are only a few lines in the entire Bible relating to it? Do you think there is no reason behind that? I guess I just dont understand why the religious, who claim to know the Bible appear to have not pondered this.

What I suspect the response to this message is going to be is either no response or a "you dont know me" type of passage. Which of course is an easy escape and once again avoids the question.

Pagan
07-01-2007, 12:41 PM
Ah...once again, a bunch of bible thumpers trying to say that what is said in the bible is solid hard core fact.

And here I thought I was in the 21st century. :shakeno:

DonShula84
07-01-2007, 05:03 PM
Well I think when we talk about gay marriage and legal stuff like that, I think it comes down to an individual rights issue, not simply a moral issue. Say something gets to the supreme court and they have to decide whether gay people can get married. Do you think they will decide the issue based on what the bible says? I think they may take into account what the majority of people think. But I don't think it will influence a decision too much. I think they will look at the letter of the law and make a decision based mostly on that. Therefore I don't see the need to sit here and argue about the morality of it or the sanctity of marriage. And the idea of marriage being sacred in our society is kind of a joke to me when you have half of them ending in divorce.


Seems to me that the Supreme Court already laid the ground work for this when they struck down miscegentation laws in Virginia. The decision in Loving v Virginia just needs to be re-examined to include discrimination against homosexuals imo.

People say who says marriage is a right? Well the Supreme Court did.


Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discrimination. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State

I think if the Supreme Court gets a case on this issue they have all they need to make it legal. Whether they'd do it or not I'm not so sure.

Marriage used to be one woman and one man of the same race and that changed. I see no reason why it cant change again.

DolfinDave
07-01-2007, 05:37 PM
Seems to me that the Supreme Court already laid the ground work for this when they struck down miscegentation laws in Virginia. The decision in Loving v Virginia just needs to be re-examined to include discrimination against homosexuals imo.

People say who says marriage is a right? Well the Supreme Court did.



I think if the Supreme Court gets a case on this issue they have all they need to make it legal. Whether they'd do it or not I'm not so sure.

Marriage used to be one woman and one man of the same race and that changed. I see no reason why it cant change again.

If marriage is classified as a fundamental right, then its going to be very difficult for the Court to say homosexuals can't have that right. What would be the reasoning? Its not like they could pull a Fawell and say homosexuality causes hurricanes and floods. If they are already allowing gay adoption, then how can they argue that their behavior causes harm to society?

PhinPhan1227
07-02-2007, 11:50 AM
The promotional materials for the "Scared Faithless" concert show a stern man gripping a sign that declares, "GOD HATES FAGS." The provocative image evokes Fred Phelps, a Kansas pastor whose incendiary protests draw the ire of Christians who support and oppose gay rights.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/06/24/homosexuality-still-divides-christians/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beliefnet.com%2Fstory%2F220%2Fstory_22072_1.html&frame=true


Lol, I have several friends who are completely irreligious, but who are still quite homophobic. I'm sure it's a religious issue for some people, but for others it's just pure insecurity.

ATLFINFAN
07-02-2007, 09:39 PM
For whoever it was saying this topic is only mentioned 2 or 3 times in the Bible. Do the words SODOM AND GAMORA ring a bell. That ought to tell you how GOD feels about it, since someone else said they didnt think GOD really cared since it was 'only mentioned 2 or 3 times.

Man, has this thread lost its direction.

guatemalanfan
07-02-2007, 09:51 PM
You know, it's really difficult to have a debate with someone when I keep responding to what you say and you flat out ignore questions I ask. Questions that I have specifically requested a response from.

The reason I keep asking you these questions is because I think the gay immorality debate is an emotional reaction to people who are different. I dont think there is any real logic behind it. And when I ask you questions about the Ten Commandments and the absence of anything relating to homosexuality in it, it's because it is a follow up question (an obvious one) to your interpretation of God's view on gays. Now, when you continue to ignore that question, not only are you confirming what I already suspected about the anti gay position, but you are also doing yourself a disservice (by not even understanding Gods composition). I mean do you think God omitted that by accident? Do you think he made a mistake? Do you wonder why there are only a few lines in the entire Bible relating to it? Do you think there is no reason behind that? I guess I just dont understand why the religious, who claim to know the Bible appear to have not pondered this.

What I suspect the response to this message is going to be is either no response or a "you dont know me" type of passage. Which of course is an easy escape and once again avoids the question.


God didnt ommited that. Is in the sixth commandmet. Which in english is not really clear. Like I said before, in spanish is: You shall not commit impure acts

Stitches
07-02-2007, 10:55 PM
God didnt ommited that. Is in the sixth commandmet. Which in english is not really clear. Like I said before, in spanish is: You shall not commit impure acts

It really doesn't matter what it is in spanish or english, since it wasn't originally written in that language anyways.

Beyond that, the english seems pretty clear to me anyways.

finswin56
07-03-2007, 09:47 AM
It really doesn't matter what it is in spanish or english, since it wasn't originally written in that language anyways.

Beyond that, the english seems pretty clear to me anyways.

Clear may not be accurate. It may be accurate, but I don't know. That's why I brought it up earlier that it would be nice to have someone who spoke Latin to translate, or at least convey if "adultery" is all that it means.

Pagan
07-03-2007, 10:00 AM
Lol, I have several friends who are completely irreligious, but who are still quite homophobic. I'm sure it's a religious issue for some people, but for others it's just pure insecurity.
Good point.


If marriage is classified as a fundamental right, then its going to be very difficult for the Court to say homosexuals can't have that right. What would be the reasoning? Its not like they could pull a Fawell and say homosexuality causes hurricanes and floods. If they are already allowing gay adoption, then how can they argue that their behavior causes harm to society?
Also a good point.

adamprez2003
07-03-2007, 12:18 PM
If marriage is classified as a fundamental right, then its going to be very difficult for the Court to say homosexuals can't have that right. What would be the reasoning? Its not like they could pull a Fawell and say homosexuality causes hurricanes and floods. If they are already allowing gay adoption, then how can they argue that their behavior causes harm to society?

It could be overturned soon. Nothing is set in stone. The court is far more conservative now

DolfinDave
07-03-2007, 01:48 PM
It could be overturned soon. Nothing is set in stone. The court is far more conservative now

True. The Court does seem to have turned conservative. But IMO, they are going to have to stretch to come to a decision that they can't marry if in fact marriage is deemed a fundamental right, which I believe it is. I definitely think the liberals on the Court will say they have the right. It will probably come down to Kennedy. But like I said, I think even the conservatives will have to reach on it. Should be interesting.

DonShula84
07-03-2007, 06:03 PM
For whoever it was saying this topic is only mentioned 2 or 3 times in the Bible. Do the words SODOM AND GAMORA ring a bell. That ought to tell you how GOD feels about it, since someone else said they didnt think GOD really cared since it was 'only mentioned 2 or 3 times.

Man, has this thread lost its direction.

Sodom and Gomorrah isnt just about homosexuals so you cant really say that shows how God feels about it. Beyond that I found this interesting article written by a Rev. and prof of Biblical interpretation. People should read the entire article imo.



Some passages that have been advanced as pertinent to the issue of homosexuality are, in fact, irrelevant. One is the attempted gang rape in Sodom (Gen. 19:1-29). That was a case of ostensibly heterosexual males intent on humiliating strangers by treating them "like women," thus demasculinizing them. (This is also the case in a similar account in Judges 19-21.) Their brutal behavior has nothing to do with the problem of whether genuine love expressed between consenting adults of the same sex is legitimate or not. Likewise Deut. 23:17-18 must be pruned from the list, since it most likely refers to a heterosexual prostitute involved in Canaanite fertility rites that have infiltrated Jewish worship; the King James Version inaccurately labeled him a "sodomite."

Several other texts are ambiguous. It is not clear whether 1 Cor. 6:9 and 1 Tim. 1:10 refer to the "passive" and "active" partners in homosexual relationships, or to homosexual and heterosexual male prostitutes. In short, it is unclear whether the issue is homosexuality alone, or promiscuity and "sex-for-hire."




Unequivocal Condemnations
Putting these texts to the side, we are left with three references, all of which unequivocally condemn homosexual behavior. Lev. 18:22 states the principle: "You [masculine] shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination" (NRSV). The second (Lev. 20:13) adds the penalty: "If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them."


http://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-walter-wink

Also, the three references wasnt brought up to show that God doesnt care about this. Just that Christians care far to much. Something that is clearly condemned 3 times in the Bible gets a lot of attention from your side. Why not spend as much time on other things that are talked about more frequently?


Thread seems to be doing just fine to me.

Megatron
07-03-2007, 06:37 PM
I am totally intolerant of people that push Biblical references as their justification to hate gays. I have had the pleasure to know many gay and lesbian people in my time on this planet that are of the most exceptional character and people that I would do anything for in a time of need. A persons sexual orientation should have no relevance on what type of person they are. Case closed.

ATLFINFAN
07-03-2007, 08:33 PM
I am totally intolerant of people that push Biblical references as their justification to hate gays. I have had the pleasure to know many gay and lesbian people in my time on this planet that are of the most exceptional character and people that I would do anything for in a time of need. A persons sexual orientation should have no relevance on what type of person they are. Case closed.


I dont think you can find ONE SINGLE post on this thread where ANYONE said they HATE gays. This type of trying to 'make a point', actually shows the opposite. If you dont have a valid point, just make something up to try to make SOMEONE ELSE look bad. That almost ALWAYS backfires. I have stated before, I have no problem with the PERSON, it is the practice, and lifestyle I cant support, based completely on what GOD SAYS about the situation. If you arent a believer, you would not EVER understand. At least I understand THAT.

Again, you hurt your own argument, or point of view, when the only thing you really have to say, is something negative about someone you CANT relate to. For the record, I wish you did understand. I am wishing nothing at all negative toward you. We might as well be speaking different languages. And since I brought it up........................I get ENGLISH.:D

DolfinDave
07-03-2007, 08:39 PM
[quote=Megatron;1062180838]I am totally intolerant of people that push Biblical references as their justification to hate gays. I have had the pleasure to know many gay and lesbian people in my time on this planet that are of the most exceptional character and people that I would do anything for in a time of need. A persons sexual orientation should have no relevance on what type of person they are. Case closed.[/quot


I dont think you can find ONE SINGLE post on this thread where ANYONE said they HATE gays. This type of trying to 'make a point', actually shows the opposite. If you dont have a valid point, just make something up to try to make SOMEONE ELSE look bad. That almost ALWAYS backfires. I have stated before, I have no problem with the PERSON, it is the practice, and lifestyle I cant support, based completely on what GOD SAYS about the situation. If you arent a believer, you would not EVER understand. At least I understand THAT.

Again, you hurt your own argument, or point of view, when the only thing you really have to say, is something negative about someone you CANT relate to. For the record, I wish you did understand. I am wishing nothing at all negative toward you. We might as well be speaking different languages. And since I brought it up........................I get ENGLISH.:D

If I were a gay person, I would rather someone hate me and give me the rights I deserve rather than the other way around. I wouldn't care what you thought about me personally. I would just expect that you respect my rights and allow me to go about my personal business without the government telling me what I can and can't do. Maybe that's just me though.

Stitches
07-03-2007, 09:26 PM
If I were a gay person, I would rather someone hate me and give me the rights I deserve rather than the other way around. I wouldn't care what you thought about me personally. I would just expect that you respect my rights and allow me to go about my personal business without the government telling me what I can and can't do. Maybe that's just me though.


That's how I'd feel too.

Pagan
07-03-2007, 10:40 PM
I have stated before, I have no problem with the PERSON, it is the practice, and lifestyle I cant support, based completely on what GOD SAYS about the situation.
First of all, you mean what the Bible says about the situation. There's no proof whatsoever that it's what god says. :wink:

Second, no one's asking you to support the practice and lifestyle of gay people. However, by forcing your religious views upon them by not allowing them their basic rights as human beings, you are showing intolerance....and hate, whether you admit it or not.

ATLFINFAN
07-03-2007, 11:16 PM
First of all, you mean what the Bible says about the situation. There's no proof whatsoever that it's what god says. :wink:

Second, no one's asking you to support the practice and lifestyle of gay people. However, by forcing your religious views upon them by not allowing them their basic rights as human beings, you are showing intolerance....and hate, whether you admit it or not.


And just because YOU call it hate, doesnt make it FACT. Appariently, there is nothing I can do anymore to change what you think of me. That was settled when I posted on this thread as a reply by a Christian.

Instead of reposting, I suggest you re read my previous response. Or to summarize, You wont EVER understand.

Megatron
07-03-2007, 11:36 PM
I am totally intolerant of people that push Biblical references as their justification to hate gays. I have had the pleasure to know many gay and lesbian people in my time on this planet that are of the most exceptional character and people that I would do anything for in a time of need. A persons sexual orientation should have no relevance on what type of person they are. Case closed.


I dont think you can find ONE SINGLE post on this thread where ANYONE said they HATE gays. This type of trying to 'make a point', actually shows the opposite. If you dont have a valid point, just make something up to try to make SOMEONE ELSE look bad. That almost ALWAYS backfires. I have stated before, I have no problem with the PERSON, it is the practice, and lifestyle I cant support, based completely on what GOD SAYS about the situation. If you arent a believer, you would not EVER understand. At least I understand THAT.

Again, you hurt your own argument, or point of view, when the only thing you really have to say, is something negative about someone you CANT relate to. For the record, I wish you did understand. I am wishing nothing at all negative toward you. We might as well be speaking different languages. And since I brought it up........................I get ENGLISH.:D You have no idea what I was talking about do you? I wasn't talking about the people in this thread but just about the concept. I made it clear from the start that I don't put myself on some sort of perfect pedestal by admitting my own fault in the matter. But you still have to try and sound smart and make it like I was on a rant. Not for one second did you attempt to try to understand or even educate yourself on why I would feel that way. And you wonder why my views are so strong on this matter.

ATLFINFAN
07-03-2007, 11:59 PM
You have no idea what I was talking about do you? I wasn't talking about the people in this thread but just about the concept. I made it clear from the start that I don't put myself on some sort of perfect pedestal by admitting my own fault in the matter. But you still have to try and sound smart and make it like I was on a rant. Not for one second did you attempt to try to understand or even educate yourself on why I would feel that way. And you wonder why my views are so strong on this matter.

I guess I am confused then, is THIS one the rant??

Since I am the new guy here, I should let some of you know that 99% of what I post ANYWHERE will be my honest feeling/ outlook, but stated with an attempt at keeping it on the light side. I am very sarcastic and have no intention of setting someone off, unless we are face to face. It is more fun that way.:D
seriously, some of you guys need to lighten up. I havent ATTACKED anyone in a mean way although that is what I have been getting constantly. I really dont mind it either.
Since this thread is so far gone and it doesnt seem like anything else constructive can be added that will be thought about,


Later

Megatron
07-04-2007, 12:07 AM
I guess I am confused then, is THIS one the rant??

Since I am the new guy here, I should let some of you know that 99% of what I post ANYWHERE will be my honest feeling/ outlook, but stated with an attempt at keeping it on the light side. I am very sarcastic and have no intention of setting someone off, unless we are face to face. It is more fun that way.:D
seriously, some of you guys need to lighten up. I havent ATTACKED anyone in a mean way although that is what I have been getting constantly. I really dont mind it either.
Since this thread is so far gone and it doesnt seem like anything else constructive can be added that will be thought about,


LaterNeedless to say this is not the "comedy" section of the board. The folks that post in these sections being the Political forum or the newly founded Science and Religion forum actually give a damn about the topics being discussed. You say you didn't attack someone but you actually did attack me. You attempted to piss on my POV by misconstruing what I said to either:

A: Seem smart
B: Get a laugh
C: Stir the pot to just piss me off
D:Be passive agressive by saying something then telling everyone just to chill out when they are offended.

You will soon find out that as much as some of these people disagree with me and my POV they still respect the forums enough to actually defend their views and do their best to make sure that their POV is clear and understandable if not agreed with.

ATLFINFAN
07-04-2007, 12:13 AM
well, it looks like my last 2 posts have been deleted so I guess that is the end of this one for me. If you cant beat em.......delete em.
have fun guys

Dolphin39
07-04-2007, 08:20 AM
Love the sinner...hate the sin.

This isn't an issue of whether or not a person is nice.

Homosexuality should NEVER be condoned, validated, endorsed, supported or called anything other than what is truly is....SIN! :(

cnc66
07-04-2007, 09:35 AM
Nice post Mary... I see it got lost in the heated shuffle going on, sorry. I too had an "epiphany" ...18 years ago I arrived at an AA meeting spiritual and morally bankrupt, fresh off an unsuccessful attempt at taking my own life. One of the first persons to offer me help was a flamer... not discretely gay, but openly, often exaggerated. I wouldn't even sit at the same table for months. As my head cleared for the first time in twenty years I realized the Gill didn't want to touch me, have sex with me, or "convert me" all he wanted was to help me stay sober "one more day". Looking back, it was one of the most significant moments of my life, it was my first tiny steps in a long journey for me to lose my prejudices..an ongoing project, I assure you.

To me, one of the greatest gifts in life is "love" .. as a believer in God, I of course give credit for this gift to Him. If God bestows this gift on an individual, who am "I" to question it's form. It is exactly "none" of my business how a consensual relationship is conducted in private. I feel it is not my right nor duty to force "my" religious and spiritual beliefs on anyone.

ABL... wow, great post bro. I am still thinking about it, props for giving me things to consider.

Pagan
07-04-2007, 09:48 AM
And just because YOU call it hate, doesnt make it FACT. Appariently, there is nothing I can do anymore to change what you think of me. That was settled when I posted on this thread as a reply by a Christian.
Okay, then it's not hate per se...but you are showing massive intolerance, and there's no way you can spin that and no bible quote you can use. I go by one quote and one quote alone on this matter, LIVE AND LET LIVE. Who the **** am I to judge a person due to their sexual preference?


Instead of reposting, I suggest you re read my previous response. Or to summarize, You wont EVER understand.
ATL, stop with the "you won't ever understand" nonsense. I was raised Christian, and my entire family is Chrtistian. I know what you people think. I did the unthinkable when I was in catholic high school, I dared to question some of the "rules" that made no sense. Never got any answers, never got any reasoning, always "it's what god says". :rolleyes:

I could spin it the other way too, you know. I can say you'll never understand. I could say that you're so brainwashed that you will continue to quote scripture like a Stepford Wife and never even consider the possibility that your "rules" are as outdated as bell bottoms and disco...

...but I won't. :tongue:


Nice post Mary... I see it got lost in the heated shuffle going on, sorry. I too had an "epiphany" ...18 years ago I arrived at an AA meeting spiritual and morally bankrupt, fresh off an unsuccessful attempt at taking my own life. One of the first persons to offer me help was a flamer... not discretely gay, but openly, often exaggerated. I wouldn't even sit at the same table for months. As my head cleared for the first time in twenty years I realized the Gill didn't want to touch me, have sex with me, or "convert me" all he wanted was to help me stay sober "one more day". Looking back, it was one of the most significant moments of my life, it was my first tiny steps in a long journey for me to lose my prejudices..an ongoing project, I assure you.

To me, one of the greatest gifts in life is "love" .. as a believer in God, I of course give credit for this gift to Him. If God bestows this gift on an individual, who am "I" to question it's form. It is exactly "none" of my business how a consensual relationship is conducted in private. I feel it is not my right nor duty to force "my" religious and spiritual beliefs on anyone.

ABL... wow, great post bro. I am still thinking about it, props for giving me things to consider.
:thumbup: Brilliant post bro.

Sponge
07-04-2007, 10:02 AM
Nice post Mary... I see it got lost in the heated shuffle going on, sorry. I too had an "epiphany" ...18 years ago I arrived at an AA meeting spiritual and morally bankrupt, fresh off an unsuccessful attempt at taking my own life. One of the first persons to offer me help was a flamer... not discretely gay, but openly, often exaggerated. I wouldn't even sit at the same table for months. As my head cleared for the first time in twenty years I realized the Gill didn't want to touch me, have sex with me, or "convert me" all he wanted was to help me stay sober "one more day". Looking back, it was one of the most significant moments of my life, it was my first tiny steps in a long journey for me to lose my prejudices..an ongoing project, I assure you.

To me, one of the greatest gifts in life is "love" .. as a believer in God, I of course give credit for this gift to Him. If God bestows this gift on an individual, who am "I" to question it's form. It is exactly "none" of my business how a consensual relationship is conducted in private. I feel it is not my right nor duty to force "my" religious and spiritual beliefs on anyone.

ABL... wow, great post bro. I am still thinking about it, props for giving me things to consider.

Nicely said, and a great lesson for us all.

Stitches
07-04-2007, 02:03 PM
Okay, then it's not hate per se...but you are showing massive intolerance, and there's no way you can spin that and no bible quote you can use. I go by one quote and one quote alone on this matter, LIVE AND LET LIVE. Who the **** am I to judge a person due to their sexual preference?


ATL, stop with the "you won't ever understand" nonsense. I was raised Christian, and my entire family is Chrtistian. I know what you people think. I did the unthinkable when I was in catholic high school, I dared to question some of the "rules" that made no sense. Never got any answers, never got any reasoning, always "it's what god says". :rolleyes:

I could spin it the other way too, you know. I can say you'll never understand. I could say that you're so brainwashed that you will continue to quote scripture like a Stepford Wife and never even consider the possibility that your "rules" are as outdated as bell bottoms and disco...

...but I won't. :tongue:


:thumbup: Brilliant post bro.

The unbolded(lol) was exactly how it happened to me. It just happened well before high school in my case.

DolfinDave
07-04-2007, 02:53 PM
I find it funny the effect Catholic school has on some. Its seems like men in particular shy away from the church after had going to school their whole life and having it forced down their throats. That is certainly the case with me and pretty much all my friends. It probably didn't help that I went to an all guys high school. That just made the whole rebellion thing more likely.

njfinfan
07-05-2007, 03:08 AM
Nice post Mary... I see it got lost in the heated shuffle going on, sorry. I too had an "epiphany" ...18 years ago I arrived at an AA meeting spiritual and morally bankrupt, fresh off an unsuccessful attempt at taking my own life. One of the first persons to offer me help was a flamer... not discretely gay, but openly, often exaggerated. I wouldn't even sit at the same table for months. As my head cleared for the first time in twenty years I realized the Gill didn't want to touch me, have sex with me, or "convert me" all he wanted was to help me stay sober "one more day". Looking back, it was one of the most significant moments of my life, it was my first tiny steps in a long journey for me to lose my prejudices..an ongoing project, I assure you.

To me, one of the greatest gifts in life is "love" .. as a believer in God, I of course give credit for this gift to Him. If God bestows this gift on an individual, who am "I" to question it's form. It is exactly "none" of my business how a consensual relationship is conducted in private. I feel it is not my right nor duty to force "my" religious and spiritual beliefs on anyone.

ABL... wow, great post bro. I am still thinking about it, props for giving me things to consider.

Thanks Marty. Wow - very profound and IMO very very valid post. Awesome!

PhinPhan1227
07-05-2007, 03:23 PM
Love the sinner...hate the sin.

This isn't an issue of whether or not a person is nice.

Homosexuality should NEVER be condoned, validated, endorsed, supported or called anything other than what is truly is....SIN! :(


Homosexuality is a sexual attraction for a person of the same sex. If homosexuals are, for the most part, born homosexual, than they have no choice in that attraction. And since they have no choice in that attraction, I can't see that as a sin. That would be like declaring that I am sinful for walking instead of flapping my arms and flying. What other choice do I have?

Pagan
07-05-2007, 03:53 PM
Here's one of the instances where Phin and I see eye to eye. :D

PhinPhan1227
07-05-2007, 04:14 PM
Here's one of the instances where Phin and I see eye to eye. :D

Lol, be honest Pagan, we actually agree on probably 95% of all issues.

Pagan
07-05-2007, 04:19 PM
Lol, be honest Pagan, we actually agree on probably 95% of all issues.
Shhhhhh....don't blow it for the rest of them. :tongue:

PhinPhan1227
07-05-2007, 04:38 PM
Shhhhhh....don't blow it for the rest of them. :tongue:

Oh..sorry....in that case, blow it out yer ear ya broom ridin' freak!!




Better?:evil:

Dolphin39
07-05-2007, 09:55 PM
Homosexuality is a sexual attraction for a person of the same sex. If homosexuals are, for the most part, born homosexual, than they have no choice in that attraction. And since they have no choice in that attraction, I can't see that as a sin. That would be like declaring that I am sinful for walking instead of flapping my arms and flying. What other choice do I have?

This is a lie from Satan. Choosing to be a homosexual is a choice. Otherwise, God wouldn't hold them accountable for this "sin"-which he does. They've allowed Satan to lure them with a sexual perversion and convinces many that it's the way they were made or "born".

They can turn to Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, be forgiven and be in right fellowship with God. "IF" they choose to repent and turn their lives over.

Love the sinner...hate the sin.

DolfinDave
07-05-2007, 10:30 PM
We have had this discussion before and it remains unclear as to whether homosexuality is a choice or not. I tend to think its not. I don't recall any choice in me being heterosexual. And from everything I've heard from actual gay people, they don't seem to think they had a saying in it either. If it is proven that they indeed did not make a choice, I don't see how they can be denied any right whatsoever. But even if they do choose it, I still think they shouldn't be denied rights.

Rafiki
07-05-2007, 10:33 PM
I really wish people would forget about barbaric Mosianic laws, like stoning people to death for not observing the sabbath. The old testament books were written by several Judges, whose viewpoints differed as much as people today.

If you are a Christian, do what Jesus says. Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. That includes letting gays have all the rights you do.

DonShula84
07-05-2007, 10:36 PM
This is a lie from Satan. Choosing to be a homosexual is a choice. Otherwise, God wouldn't hold them accountable for this "sin"-which he does. They've allowed Satan to lure them with a sexual perversion and convinces many that it's they way they were made or "born".

They can turn to Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, be forgiven and be in right fellowship with God. "IF" they choose to repent and turn their lives over.

Love the sinner...hate the sin.

wow :err:

How do you debate such an unreasonable stance?

Dolphin39
07-05-2007, 10:46 PM
wow :err:

How do you debate such an unreasonable stance?

I wonder the very same thing. :(

Pagan
07-05-2007, 11:07 PM
Oh..sorry....in that case, blow it out yer ear ya broom ridin' freak!!




Better?:evil:
:sidelol:

I need a t-shirt that says that...."Broom Ridin' Freak". :lol:


This is a lie from Satan. Choosing to be a homosexual is a choice. Otherwise, God wouldn't hold them accountable for this "sin"-which he does. They've allowed Satan to lure them with a sexual perversion and convinces many that it's the way they were made or "born".

They can turn to Jesus for forgiveness of their sins, be forgiven and be in right fellowship with God. "IF" they choose to repent and turn their lives over.

Love the sinner...hate the sin.
This would be sad if it wasn't so frightening that people actually think like this. Are we in the 21st Century, or Massachusetts in the 1600's? :shakeno:

DonShula84
07-06-2007, 02:45 AM
I wonder the very same thing. :(

:lol:


This would be sad if it wasn't so frightening that people actually think like this. Are we in the 21st Century, or Massachusetts in the 1600's? :shakeno:

:yeahthat: