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View Full Version : Pope wants to deliver Jews 'from their darkness'



BAMAPHIN 22
07-08-2007, 02:21 PM
Pope Benedict XVI courted fresh controversy today by formally sanctioning the celebration of a Latin prayer that calls for Jews to "be delivered from their darkness" and calls for their conversion to Christianity.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/07/08/pope-wants-to-deliver-jews-from-their-darkness/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpressesc.com%2F01183868018_pope_jews&frame=true

DeathStar
07-08-2007, 02:42 PM
this coming from a nazi pope...not surprised at all. what an idiot.

Pagan
07-08-2007, 09:48 PM
Yet another shining example of intolerance and disrespecting other's faith...but it's not ALL of them now, remember that.

Just the main guy. :lol:

LOVE this part of the story:


The Pope, a former Nazi who served in the anti-aircraft brigade only deserting the army when the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, failed to mention that Nazis killed millions of Jews when he made a speech at Auschwitz.

What a tool. :shakeno:

DolfinDave
07-08-2007, 10:05 PM
Like Pagan said, yet another example of the arrogance that is organized religions. That's a good message to teach the kids. You're right and everyone who doesn't agree with you is wrong and will spend eternity in great pain because of it. Beautiful stuff. I'm sure that is exactly what Jesus wanted.

Roman529
07-08-2007, 10:25 PM
Pope Benedict XVI courted fresh controversy today by formally sanctioning the celebration of a Latin prayer that calls for Jews to "be delivered from their darkness" and calls for their conversion to Christianity.

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2007/07/08/pope-wants-to-deliver-jews-from-their-darkness/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpressesc.com%2F01183868018_pope_jews&frame=true

What's wrong with this? :confused: Don't all faiths prosetylize?

Stitches
07-08-2007, 10:43 PM
What's wrong with this? :confused: Don't all faiths prosetylize?

Not mine. :wink:

muscle979
07-08-2007, 11:59 PM
This is nothing new. All of these monotheistic faiths want to bring people over from the "dark" side. Probably some of the other faiths too I'm sure.

Pagan
07-09-2007, 07:09 AM
What's wrong with this? :confused: Don't all faiths prosetylize?
No.

Quelonio
07-09-2007, 11:47 AM
What's wrong with this? :confused: Don't all faiths prosetylize?

nope... pretty much only christianism and Islam....

Scrap
07-09-2007, 12:20 PM
Gandhi once said....

" I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. "


I figured a few people here would appreciate that quote. Use it as you wish.

Sponge
07-09-2007, 08:36 PM
That's a disappointing and short-sighted decision by the leader of a world religion.

Quelonio
07-10-2007, 12:37 AM
it reminds me of when Mormons did baptisms for all the Jews that where killed in the Holocaust, so that they would insure they would go to Heaven.

DolfinDave
07-10-2007, 12:46 AM
it reminds me of when Mormons did baptisms for all the Jews that where killed in the Holocaust, so that they would insure they would go to Heaven.

I didn't know that happened. That's an extremely arrogant act.

Stitches
07-10-2007, 01:48 AM
I didn't know that happened. That's an extremely arrogant act.

Why because the holocaust never happened? :rolleyes:

j/k of course

DolfinDave
07-10-2007, 01:50 AM
Why because the holocaust never happened? :rolleyes:

j/k of course

I guess they were probably just trying to be nice. And they probably had the best intentions. But it just speaks to the underlying thought process which is 'we have all the answers and no one else does, if you don't join us, you will never know those answers and you will not like the end result'.

Boik14
07-10-2007, 02:27 AM
And people wonder why i stick strictly to believing in a higer power but not organized religion.....

This guy isnt just a tool, hes the home depot of religion

Den54
07-10-2007, 07:13 AM
I guess they were probably just trying to be nice. And they probably had the best intentions. But it just speaks to the underlying thought process which is 'we have all the answers and no one else does, if you don't join us, you will never know those answers and you will not like the end result'.

:yeahthat:

Quelonio
07-10-2007, 02:43 PM
I guess they were probably just trying to be nice. And they probably had the best intentions. But it just speaks to the underlying thought process which is 'we have all the answers and no one else does, if you don't join us, you will never know those answers and you will not like the end result'.

I'm sure they did. But it is still a horribly arrogant situation.

Antoni
07-10-2007, 02:57 PM
And these are the guys that tell others that we are misguided people who need to be saved. The feeling's mutual I guess.

adamprez2003
07-15-2007, 02:14 PM
I don't understand the controversy. Even thought he Latin Mass was suspended in 1970, hasn't it continued to be taught that the conversion of non believers to Christ and therefore the Catholic Church is something all Catholics should try to do. I mean, the Catholics havent been trying to convert people to Buddhism have they?

Pagan
07-15-2007, 04:27 PM
I don't understand the controversy. Even thought he Latin Mass was suspended in 1970, hasn't it continued to be taught that the conversion of non believers to Christ and therefore the Catholic Church is something all Catholics should try to do. I mean, the Catholics havent been trying to convert people to Buddhism have they?
Here's an idea...how about Catholics and Christians live and let live and not force their beliefs on everyone else?

Just a thought.

Mike13
07-15-2007, 04:37 PM
" I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. "

Sad yet true.

He was a member of the Hitler Youth, should this suprise anyone?

adamprez2003
07-15-2007, 04:55 PM
Here's an idea...how about Catholics and Christians live and let live and not force their beliefs on everyone else?

Just a thought.

Here's a thought. Are Protestants being dragged into Catholic churches and being forced to say prayers? What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas:evil:

LouPhinFan
07-15-2007, 10:17 PM
Here's an idea...how about Catholics and Christians live and let live and not force their beliefs on everyone else?

Just a thought.

True Christ-like Christians don't "force" their beliefs on anyone. I'll tell you about my faith and what it means to be saved, but ultimately its your decision. A Christian should tell people about their faith, and live their lives as Christ-like as possible. That kind of example is a much better witness than imposing Chrisitanity on someone against their will.

ABrownLamp
07-15-2007, 10:40 PM
True Christ-like Christians don't "force" their beliefs on anyone. I'll tell you about my faith and what it means to be saved, but ultimately its your decision. A Christian should tell people about their faith, and live their lives as Christ-like as possible. That kind of example is a much better witness than imposing Chrisitanity on someone against their will.

I think it's amazing that people make statements like this without any regard for history. I mean do you think Christians in the 20th and 21st century understand "true Christianity" better than Christians in any other period in time? Because thats the only way you could make a statement like this.

Quelonio
07-16-2007, 12:40 AM
maybe he is selling lamps?

Pagan
07-16-2007, 07:20 AM
True Christ-like Christians don't "force" their beliefs on anyone. I'll tell you about my faith and what it means to be saved, but ultimately its your decision. A Christian should tell people about their faith, and live their lives as Christ-like as possible. That kind of example is a much better witness than imposing Chrisitanity on someone against their will.
And that right there IS forcing your beliefs on someone. Unless I come up to you and say "hey man, tell me about your faith and what it means to be saved!" you're forcing that on someone. Probably because most of the time people are too nice to tell you to mind your own business.

If they aren't Christian, that what makes you think they give a rat's *** about your faith? Do they come up to you and tell you about theirs? I only tell people when they ask, and when I do tell people it's not for the purpose of converting them.

That's the point I was making, a Christian shouldn't tell people about their faith. A Christian should shut up about it unless asked.

adamprez2003
07-16-2007, 07:24 AM
And that right there IS forcing your beliefs on someone. Unless I come up to you and say "hey man, tell me about your faith and what it means to be saved!" you're forcing that on someone. Probably because most of the time people are too nice to tell you to mind your own business.

If they aren't Christian, that what makes you think they give a rat's *** about your faith? Do they come up to you and tell you about theirs? I only tell people when they ask, and when I do tell people it's not for the purpose of converting them.

That's the point I was making, a Christian shouldn't tell people about their faith. A Christian should shut up about it unless asked.

Obviously you've never been in sales.

Aussiefinfan54
07-16-2007, 08:04 AM
good on him!, why wouldnt he want people to come over to catholicism. i cant understand why people are so shocked and some seemingly appalled by this, the pope wants people to be catholic how intolerant of him, i think it would be a bigger problem if he didnt want this.

LouPhinFan
07-16-2007, 08:07 AM
I think it's amazing that people make statements like this without any regard for history. I mean do you think Christians in the 20th and 21st century understand "true Christianity" better than Christians in any other period in time? Because thats the only way you could make a statement like this.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. All I can say to this is Christ told every Christian how they are supposed to act during his sermons in the New Testament. Whether its the 1st century, 20th century, or 28 century, a Christian is supposed to follow the path Christ laid down. If you can clarify your meaning, perhaps I can respond better.

LouPhinFan
07-16-2007, 08:25 AM
And that right there IS forcing your beliefs on someone. Unless I come up to you and say "hey man, tell me about your faith and what it means to be saved!" you're forcing that on someone. Probably because most of the time people are too nice to tell you to mind your own business.

If they aren't Christian, that what makes you think they give a rat's *** about your faith? Do they come up to you and tell you about theirs? I only tell people when they ask, and when I do tell people it's not for the purpose of converting them.

That's the point I was making, a Christian shouldn't tell people about their faith. A Christian should shut up about it unless asked.

Obviously we have different definitions of the word "forced". If I start telling someone about my faith and they don't want to hear about, all someone has to do is speak up about it, its their decision. When I think of forcing religion on someone, I think of the Conquistadors slashing their way across Central America, converting or destroying every group of people in their path. Or some forms of Islam, where you're either a follower of Mohammed or you're a sub-human not worthy to live (infadel). There are countless examples of that across history, but I struggle to think of one instance where Christians were the cluprit. There may have been some misguided group of Christians that participated in something like that, but I can't think of any.

Aussiefinfan54
07-16-2007, 09:38 AM
Sad yet true.

He was a member of the Hitler Youth, should this suprise anyone?

so what, so was just about every other person growing up in germany around that time.

Pagan
07-16-2007, 10:32 AM
Obviously we have different definitions of the word "forced". If I start telling someone about my faith and they don't want to hear about, all someone has to do is speak up about it, its their decision. When I think of forcing religion on someone, I think of the Conquistadors slashing their way across Central America, converting or destroying every group of people in their path. Or some forms of Islam, where you're either a follower of Mohammed or you're a sub-human not worthy to live (infadel). There are countless examples of that across history, but I struggle to think of one instance where Christians were the cluprit. There may have been some misguided group of Christians that participated in something like that, but I can't think of any.
You're kidding, right? :lol:

I guess you've never heard of the Crusades or the Burning Times then? You might want to look those up. You people really need to stop with the "it's only a few misguided ones" nonsense. You sound like rap apologists who say the same thing every time one of them is involved in some kind of shooting.

And as for the first part, WHY do you have to tell someone about your faith unsolicited? Okay, you might not be technically forcing your beliefs on them, but you're proselytizing. The only thing that seperates you from Jehovah's Witnesses is that you don't go door to door.

You DO realize Christians are one of only a few faiths that somehow feel the need to do this, right?

And as for forcing....how about our president basing some of his decisions for the country on his faith? That's not forcing?


so what, so was just about every other person growing up in germany around that time.
Correct....and NONE of them should be elected as a religious leader.

Sponge
07-16-2007, 11:09 AM
Obviously we have different definitions of the word "forced". If I start telling someone about my faith and they don't want to hear about, all someone has to do is speak up about it, its their decision. When I think of forcing religion on someone, I think of the Conquistadors slashing their way across Central America, converting or destroying every group of people in their path. Or some forms of Islam, where you're either a follower of Mohammed or you're a sub-human not worthy to live (infadel). There are countless examples of that across history, but I struggle to think of one instance where Christians were the cluprit. There may have been some misguided group of Christians that participated in something like that, but I can't think of any.

If you start a conversation with someone about your religion without being invited to, you are offering your beliefs to them in an invasive manner. It's just like unsolicited telemarketing. To say that all they have to do is say go away to you is ignoring the fact that you were invasive in the first place. Why should the onus be on them to be respectful when you were not? There are many Christians who do this who imply that the listener is damned when told of the listener's disinterest. That is not a neutral act.

Pagan
07-16-2007, 11:24 AM
If you start a conversation with someone about your religion without being invited to, you are offering your beliefs to them in an invasive manner. It's just like unsolicited telemarketing. To say that all they have to do is say go away to you is ignoring the fact that you were invasive in the first place. Why should the onus be on them to be respectful when you were not? There are many Christians who do this who imply that the listener is damned when told of the listener's disinterest. That is not a neutral act.
Well said.....especially the telemarketer analogy!

Sponge
07-16-2007, 11:47 AM
Gandhi once said....

" I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ. "


I figured a few people here would appreciate that quote. Use it as you wish.

We could use about a hundred thousand Gandhi's today. We need them desperately.

LouPhinFan
07-16-2007, 01:13 PM
You're kidding, right? :lol:

I guess you've never heard of the Crusades or the Burning Times then? You might want to look those up. You people really need to stop with the "it's only a few misguided ones" nonsense. You sound like rap apologists who say the same thing every time one of them is involved in some kind of shooting.


Both of those examples were from the Catholic Church. As is the Spanish Inquistion, Conquistadors, etc. I when I say Christian, I mean protestant Christian. Sorry, I might not have made that distinction. The only thing I can think of is the Salem witch trials. A very unfortunate event in history, that was caused by Christians. As far as "it's only a few misguieded ones", then I assume you blame all Christians, when a wacko spouting Bible scriptures blows up an abortion clinic?



And as for the first part, WHY do you have to tell someone about your faith unsolicited? Okay, you might not be technically forcing your beliefs on them, but you're proselytizing. The only thing that seperates you from Jehovah's Witnesses is that you don't go door to door.

You DO realize Christians are one of only a few faiths that somehow feel the need to do this, right?


Well, Christ directed his followers to go out and minister. That's all I can really say about that. I don't go up and start talking to people about faith. Many people do, but I just live my life as Christ-like as possible and if someone wants to ask me about my faith, I'll be happy to share it with them. I don't see the appeal in being a "fire and brimstone" person.




And as for forcing....how about our president basing some of his decisions for the country on his faith? That's not forcing?




Well that's what the checks and balance system in government is for, to keep him from doing that.

Quelonio
07-16-2007, 03:03 PM
Both of those examples were from the Catholic Church. As is the Spanish Inquistion, Conquistadors, etc. I when I say Christian, I mean protestant Christian. Sorry, I might not have made that distinction. The only thing I can think of is the Salem witch trials. A very unfortunate event in history, that was caused by Christians. As far as "it's only a few misguieded ones", then I assume you blame all Christians, when a wacko spouting Bible scriptures blows up an abortion clinic?





Well you could also add in Oliver Cromwell's destruction of catholicism in Ireland and Scotland. You could indeed count in several attacks on catholicism that happened during the begining of the separation in germany...

Pagan
07-16-2007, 04:01 PM
Both of those examples were from the Catholic Church. As is the Spanish Inquistion, Conquistadors, etc. I when I say Christian, I mean protestant Christian. Sorry, I might not have made that distinction. The only thing I can think of is the Salem witch trials. A very unfortunate event in history, that was caused by Christians.
A Christian is a Christian bro. Whatever denomination you follow, all the atrocities I'll show you were done in the name of Christ by his followers.

For example:


~ As soon as Christianity was legal (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.
~ Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.
~ Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.
~ Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer."
~ Pagan services became punishable by death in 356.
~ Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues.
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."
~ In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.
~ In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities.
~ The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.
~ from the beginning of Christianity to 1484 probably more than several thousand.
~ in the era of witch hunting (1484-1750) according to modern scholars several hundred thousand (about 80% female) burned at the stake or hanged.
~ In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388.
~ 17. Council of Toledo 694: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized.
~ The Bishop of Limoges (France) in 1010 had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed.
~ First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered 1096, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech)
~ Second Crusade: 1147. Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France).
~ Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked 1189/90.
~ Fulda/Germany 1235: 34 Jewish men and women slain.
~ 1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated.
~ 1290 in Bohemian (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed.
~ 1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland.
~ 1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned.
~ 1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians).
~ 1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered.
~ 1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.
~ 1492: In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492.
~ 1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain.
~ In average two thirds of the native population were killed by colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course, e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess."
~ On Hispaniola alone, on Columbus visits, the native population (Arawak), a rather harmless and happy people living on an island of abundant natural resources, a literal paradise, soon mourned 50,000 dead.
~ The surviving Indians fell victim to rape, murder, enslavement and spanish raids.
~ As one of the culprits wrote: "So many Indians died that they could not be counted, all through the land the Indians lay dead everywhere. The stench was very great and pestiferous."
~ The indian chief Hatuey fled with his people but was captured and burned alive. As "they were tying him to the stake a Franciscan friar urged him to take Jesus to his heart so that his soul might go to heaven, rather than descend into hell. Hatuey replied that if heaven was where the Christians went, he would rather go to hell."
~ What happened to his people was described by an eyewitness:
"The Spaniards found pleasure in inventing all kinds of odd cruelties ... They built a long gibbet, long enough for the toes to touch the ground to prevent strangling, and hanged thirteen [natives] at a time in honor of Christ Our Saviour and the twelve Apostles... then, straw was wrapped around their torn bodies and they were burned alive."
Or, on another occasion:
"The Spaniards cut off the arm of one, the leg or hip of another, and from some their heads at one stroke, like butchers cutting up beef and mutton for market. Six hundred, including the cacique, were thus slain like brute beasts...Vasco [de Balboa] ordered forty of them to be torn to pieces by dogs."
~ The "island's population of about eight million people at the time of Columbus's arrival in 1492 already had declined by a third to a half before the year 1496 was out." Eventually all the island's natives were exterminated, so the Spaniards were "forced" to import slaves from other caribbean islands, who soon suffered the same fate. Thus "the Caribbean's millions of native people [were] thereby effectively liquidated in barely a quarter of a century". "In less than the normal lifetime of a single human being, an entire culture of millions of people, thousands of years resident in their homeland, had been exterminated."
~ "And then the Spanish turned their attention to the mainland of Mexico and Central America. The slaughter had barely begun. The exquisite city of Tenochtitln [Mexico city] was next."
~ Cortez, Pizarro, De Soto and hundreds of other spanish conquistadors likewise sacked southern and mesoamerican civilizations in the name of Christ (De Soto also sacked Florida).
~ "When the 16th century ended, some 200,000 Spaniards had moved to the Americas. By that time probably more than 60,000,000 natives were dead."
~ In 1122 Christian crusaders swept over Jerusalem and slaughtered men, women and children, 'until their horses were knee deep in blood. We then went to the church to thank the Lord for his mercy.'
~ In 777 , Charlemagne, a devout Christian, after conquering the Saxon rebels, gave them a choice between baptism and execution. When they refused to convert, he had 4500 of them beheaded in one morning.
~In the fourth century, Emporor Constantine, the first Roman Emperor to become a Christian, had over 3000 Christians executed because their interpretation of the Bible did not agree with his. That is more than the number of Christians who died at the hands of the Romans during the well known 1st century "Christians to the lions" persecutions.
~ In the 12th and 13th centuries, the Inquisition was born, with Christians killing Christians, during what was known as the Albigensian heresies. Hundreds of thousands of people died because their Christianity did not agree with official dogma. This adds to the irony of murder in the name of Christ, when the majority of victims of the early inquisitions were themselves Christians.
~ English Catholics suffered horribly under Protestant regimes. American historian William T. Walsh writes: "In Britain, 30,000 went to the stake for witchcraft; in Protestant Germany, the figure was 100,000". In Scotland, too, alleged witches were cruelly put to death. Karl Keating quotes from the : "It is well-known that belief in the justice of punishing heresy with death was so common among the 16th-century Reformers-Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, and their adherents-that we may say their toleration began where their power ended"
Just the tip of the iceberg my friend. The list could go on and on. But please....tell me how it was only a "few misguided ones" again. I never tire of hearing that! :lol:


As far as "it's only a few misguieded ones", then I assume you blame all Christians, when a wacko spouting Bible scriptures blows up an abortion clinic?
No, I don't blame all Christians. It just grows old when things like that happen OVER AND OVER AND OVER again and we keep hearing the "it's just a few" babble.


Well, Christ directed his followers to go out and minister. That's all I can really say about that. I don't go up and start talking to people about faith. Many people do, but I just live my life as Christ-like as possible and if someone wants to ask me about my faith, I'll be happy to share it with them. I don't see the appeal in being a "fire and brimstone" person.
Well then, if you don't offer that information unsolicited, then you are one of the decent ones. I'm talking about the ones who see the pentacle around my neck and feel it's their duty to try and "save" me. To those kind of Christians I can only say "**** off." :wink:

adamprez2003
07-16-2007, 04:27 PM
A Christian is a Christian bro. Whatever denomination you follow, all the atrocities I'll show you were done in the name of Christ by his followers.

For example:


Just the tip of the iceberg my friend. The list could go on and on. But please....tell me how it was only a "few misguided ones" again. I never tire of hearing that! :lol:


No, I don't blame all Christians. It just grows old when things like that happen OVER AND OVER AND OVER again and we keep hearing the "it's just a few" babble.


Well then, if you don't offer that information unsolicited, then you are one of the decent ones. I'm talking about the ones who see the pentacle around my neck and feel it's their duty to try and "save" me. To those kind of Christians I can only say "**** off." :wink:

when in your own life have you seen christians killing pagans?

Pagan
07-16-2007, 04:46 PM
when in your own life have you seen christians killing pagans?
Holy **** bro....so sweep it under the carpet, huh?

Guess those silly ol' Jews should forget about the Holocaust too, huh? :shakeno:

He stated that he didn't know of ANY killings committed by Christians. I gave him a list as long as your arm and THAT'S the best retort you can come up with? :lol:

adamprez2003
07-16-2007, 04:52 PM
Holy **** bro....so sweep it under the carpet, huh?

Guess those silly ol' Jews should forget about the Holocaust too, huh? :shakeno:

He stated that he didn't know of ANY killings committed by Christians. I gave him a list as long as your arm and THAT'S the best retort you can come up with? :lol:

you know the Roman and Greeks were considered Pagan. If you're going to get into history why not look at all of it

LouPhinFan
07-16-2007, 05:52 PM
A Christian is a Christian bro. Whatever denomination you follow, all the atrocities I'll show you were done in the name of Christ by his followers.


Wow, that's incredibly wrong my friend. The Catholic religion is completely different from any protestant Christian denomination, except maybe the Methodist. The Methodists even mention the "Holy Roman Catholic Church" in some of their recitations.

Most of the atrocities you mentioned happen in far more barbaric times. Back then people killed in many different names, unfortunately Christ was just one of them. The Salem witch trials were perpetrated by the Puritans, one of the most extreme early versions of protestant Christianity.




Well then, if you don't offer that information unsolicited, then you are one of the decent ones. I'm talking about the ones who see the pentacle around my neck and feel it's their duty to try and "save" me. :wink:

No worries man. I have friends that run the entire gambit. I just live my life as best I can, and hopefully they'll find their own way.

Pagan
07-16-2007, 06:21 PM
you know the Roman and Greeks were considered Pagan. If you're going to get into history why not look at all of it
If you noticed, I said the examples I posted were just the tip of the iceberg, I didn't want to make a post that went for three pages. :wink:



No worries man. I have friends that run the entire gambit. I just live my life as best I can, and hopefully they'll find their own way.
No worries at all bro. You seem like a good egg. :D

Mike13
07-16-2007, 06:22 PM
A Christian is a Christian bro

Don't go around telling Christians that.

adamprez2003
07-16-2007, 08:21 PM
If you noticed, I said the examples I posted were just the tip of the iceberg, I didn't want to make a post that went for three pages. :wink:


I hear ya:lol: I'm not so up on the history of Paganism. I know there are many different forms. You gotta admit that the Roman Pagans were pretty bloodthirsty too. And in terms of interreligous cooperation it probably wasn't the best Public Relations move to crucify a guy whose followers referred to him as the Son Of God. You just had to know that was going to come back and haunt the Pagan religions in terms of their relations with Christians:(

Pagan
07-16-2007, 08:25 PM
I hear ya:lol: I'm not so up on the history of Paganism. I know there are many different forms. You gotta admit that the Roman Pagans were pretty bloodthirsty too. And in terms of interreligous cooperation it probably wasn't the best Public Relations move to crucify a guy whose followers referred to him as the Son Of God. You just had to know that was going to come back and haunt the Pagan religions in terms of their relations with Christians:(
Actually though bro, alot of religions were referred to as Pagan when they really weren't. Most Pagan religions are earth based religions. The Greeks and the Romans were just caught up in the "whatever isn't Christian is Pagan" lump.

As far as I know...there weren't any Witches in Rome or Greece. :D

adamprez2003
07-16-2007, 08:46 PM
Actually though bro, alot of religions were referred to as Pagan when they really weren't. Most Pagan religions are earth based religions. The Greeks and the Romans were just caught up in the "whatever isn't Christian is Pagan" lump.

As far as I know...there weren't any Witches in Rome or Greece. :D

Good point. I think you're right about that. Christianity probably did lump everything together at some point. Probably when the witchhunters started (1200 AD or maybe before 800 AD, I dont remember)

Withcraft itself was hunted down during the Egyptian times. I think Hammarabi even has something about witches and putting them to death. People always had a little fear of witches and anytime something went wrong, a witch was always easy to blame

Do you include Shamanism as Paganism or are those seperate?