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SCall13
07-13-2007, 01:48 PM
I've always been against Catholicism. It's very roots are wicked and evil. Nothing against people in general who are catholic. It's the system that is built upon lies and stand against everything Christ was about, all the while claiming to be with Christ and for Christ. What it is, in no uncertain terms, is ANTI- Christ. This, of course, is my opinion and I believe it to be fact. The "great" religion has decieved many people. (I believe that the Catholic Church is the great whore the Bible speaks of in Revelations - and that is a deep subject that could take hours - even days - to write about.)

But here is just a sample of how deceiving the Catholic church is, and how corrupt it is from its very roots. The writer of this article did a good job of presenting this in such a short article.


http://www.expertclick.com/NewsReleaseWire/default.cfm?Action=ReleaseDetail&ID=17190

Benedict was correct in stating that “Christ established here on earth only one church” however, he was wrong in stating that that church was the Roman Catholic Church. His suggestion that other churches cannot qualify as the “real thing” is based on apostolic succession, which teaches that all Catholic bishops can trace their unbroken linage back to the time of Christ. In other words, each bishop and pope must have been ordained by one who was ordained by one who was, well you understand.

Benedict has some major hurdles to jump. First, the Bible never teaches such an absurd doctrine; furthermore, Catholics cannot qualify for the simple reason that many Catholic Bishops and Popes have been heretics. Is Ben saying that the heretical bishops and popes were in the line of apostolic succession? If he affirms that, he is in trouble and if he denies that, he is in trouble! Moreover, does the Pope believe that those very vile Popes were legitimate successors to the apostles?

Chaucer chided the Catholic Church noting a predilection of Catholic leaders, “for good food and bad women...." Historians have written reams about incredibly wicked Popes who turned the Vatican into a brothel, committed incest with daughters, and one who even took his mother to wife! There were numerous ******* Popes who installed their own ******* sons on the papal throne. John XII, who reigned from 955 to 963, ascended to the papacy at age 19, was accused of sleeping with his father's mistress, committing incest with his niece, and castrating a deacon.

Were such Popes a part of apostolic succession back to the Apostles? Nonsense. They were dishonest, depraved, and decadent villains who were a disgrace to the human race and overshadowed the decent Popes. The licentious Popes even made pagans look good!

Every time a Roman Church official suggests that Peter was the first pope in the line of apostolic succession, he is validating his dishonesty or his ignorance because history clearly teaches otherwise. In Luke 22:24, there was strife among the disciples as to who would be the greatest among them and Christ did not tell them that Peter would be the Top Honcho of the new church. Furthermore, if Peter was the first pope he was not infallible since the Apostle Paul rebuked him for his error.

Paul’s epistle to the Church at Rome was written about 58 A.D., and Roman Catholics loudly proclaim, without historical or biblical proof, that the Apostle Peter was bishop of Rome from 42 to 67 A.D. However, while Paul mentions many names, he does not refer to Peter! Paul wrote Second Timothy from Rome, yet Paul declares, "Only Luke is with me" (II Tim. 4:11). Where was Pete? Maybe home with his wife?

In the building of Christ’s church Peter was only one of the builders because Eph. 2:20 says, “And are built upon the foundation of the APOSTLES and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone.” If Peter had been the first pope or had any more authority than the other Apostles had, this would have been the time for Paul to point that out, but he did not because Peter was only one of many. In Paul’s epistle to the Romans, he mentions 27 people by name, but not Peter. If Peter had been anywhere near Rome, Paul would have included him. In fact, it would have been insulting had he not done so.

No, Peter was not Bishop at Rome, the first Pope, or the foundation of Christ’s church. He was a simple preacher who had been born from above by the grace of God. Wonder if Pope Benedict has had that life changing and soul-altering experience? I hope so.

Quelonio
07-13-2007, 01:57 PM
See what we are saying in the pope Benedict thread, that catholics endure quite the name calling to their faith?

SCall13
07-13-2007, 02:06 PM
See what we are saying in the pope Benedict thread, that catholics endure quite the name calling to their faith?

It's not really name calling. It's historical fact.

LouPhinFan
07-13-2007, 02:32 PM
I am a protestant, belonging to the Christian church denomination. Many of my friends are Catholic, as Louisville has a large Catholic population.

I think about their faith sometimes and compare it to what the bible, specifically Jesus says. He said you HAVE to repent and accept him as your lord and savior. Unless you do that, it doesn't matter how many confessions your go to, or how many "Hail Mary's" you say, you won't get into Heaven. Confessions are another can of worms. The bible says only Jesus can obsolve you of your sins and that he did not grant that power to any mortal, a priest does not have the authority to do that.

Catholics put far too much emphisis on talking to Mary as an intermediary to Jesus. Erecting statues of Mary is very troublesome as the bible highlights Mary as a special person, yes, but in the end she is just a mortal person. I consider those statues to be false idols. Why talk to Mary, so she can talk to God for you, when you can just pray directly to Jesus? I have attended numerous Catholic weddings (with full masses) and have found the religion (in my opinion) way too ritualistic and archaic. Its no wonder that Catholic church attendence is declining and the Vatican is having trouble finding priests. And all the pedophilia didn't help matters either. Its no secret that throughout history the Catholic church has been corrupt and misguided (crusades, Inquistion, etc.).

The church has done many good things as well. They have crusaded for the poor. The church was the inspiration (not to mention funding) for some of the greatest musical works ever written.

I pray everyday for all of my Catholic friends that when Judgement day arrives they will be granted mercy. Believe me I don't want to bash any of my fellow Dolphins fans that happen to be Catholics, but those are just a few of my observations and personal beliefs. I'm sure there are plenty of good people that are Catholics and they deserve, no NEED our prayers as protestants...

SCall13
07-13-2007, 02:40 PM
I am a protestant, belonging to the Christian church denomination. Many of my friends are Catholic, as Louisville has a large Catholic population.

I think about their faith sometimes and compare it to what the bible, specifically Jesus says. He said you HAVE to repent and accept him as your lord and savior. Unless you do that, it doesn't matter how many confessions your go to, or how many "Hail Mary's" you say, you won't get into Heaven. Confessions are another can of worms. The bible says only Jesus can obsolve you of your sins and that he did not grant that power to any mortal, a priest does not have the authority to do that.

Catholics put far too much emphisis on talking to Mary as an intermediary to Jesus. Erecting statues of Mary is very troublesome as the bible highlights Mary as a special person, yes, but in the end she is just a mortal person. I consider those statues to be false idols. Why talk to Mary, so she can talk to God for you, when you can just pray directly to Jesus? I have attended numerous Catholic weddings (with full masses) and have found the religion (in my opinion) way too ritualistic and archaic. Its no wonder that Catholic church attendence is declining and the Vatican is having trouble finding priests. And all the pedophilia didn't help matters either. Its no secret that throughout history the Catholic church has been corrupt and misguided (crusades, Inquistion, etc.).

The church has done many good things as well. They have crusaded for the poor. The church was the inspiration (not to mention funding) for some of the greatest musical works ever written.

I pray everyday for all of my Catholic friends that when Judgement day arrives they will be granted mercy. Believe me I don't want to bash any of my fellow Dolphins fans that happen to be Catholics, but those are just a few of my observations and personal beliefs. I'm sure there are plenty of good people that are Catholics and they deserve, no NEED our prayers as protestants...



Good post

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 02:41 PM
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Pagan
07-13-2007, 03:03 PM
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."
I'm waiting for the gunshots, Samuel L. :wink:

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 03:10 PM
I'm waiting for the gunshots, Samuel L. :wink:

LOL...nice.

My favorite part of the movie was his internal struggle over this passage:

"I been sayin' that **** for years. And if you ever heard it, it meant your ***. I never really questioned what it meant. I thought it was just a cold-blooded thing to say to a mother****er before you popped a cap in his ***. But I saw some **** this mornin' made me think twice. Now I'm thinkin': it could mean you're the evil man. And I'm the righteous man. And Mr. 9mm here, he's the shepherd protecting my righteous *** in the valley of darkness. Or it could be you're the righteous man and I'm the shepherd and it's the world that's evil and selfish. I'd like that. But that **** ain't the truth. The truth is you're the weak. And I'm the tyranny of evil men. But I'm tryin', Ringo. I'm tryin' real hard to be a shepherd."

:wink:

Stitches
07-13-2007, 03:41 PM
It's not really name calling. It's historical fact.

I find it hard to believe writings from 2000 years ago to be taken at face value as fact. It is well known history is/was a lie agreed upon.

cnc66
07-13-2007, 03:54 PM
I find it hard to believe writings from 2000 years ago to be taken at face value as fact. It is well known history is/was a lie agreed upon.

pffft... that's bullcrap.

Stitches
07-13-2007, 04:31 PM
pffft... that's bullcrap.

With how many documents have been destroyed over all these years, there isn't an accurate representation of what actually happened in a lot of instances. While saying history is a lie is a bit harsh, I was referencing a popular quote. I honestly believe that a lot is left out of history we do know, and in some instances the history we are taught is completely innaccurate(now I say this is a belief, because I can't 100% back it up, and I do think I could be proven wrong at some point).

DonShula84
07-13-2007, 04:52 PM
This proves my point in the pope thread...thanks. Wicked, evil and a great whore :rolleyes:

Quelonio
07-13-2007, 04:52 PM
It's not really name calling. It's historical fact.

Calling their faith the whore of babylon is a bit of a name call isn't it? If I where to call christianism a whorish faith I will be crucified for attacking christians.

cnc66
07-13-2007, 04:57 PM
With how many documents have been destroyed over all these years, there isn't an accurate representation of what actually happened in a lot of instances. While saying history is a lie is a bit harsh, I was referencing a popular quote. I honestly believe that a lot is left out of history we do know, and in some instances the history we are taught is completely innaccurate(now I say this is a belief, because I can't 100% back it up, and I do think I could be proven wrong at some point).

ok, I can go with all that.. it ALL needs to be sifted... and in the context of the time they occured in too, not "our" times. Here is something I was told that, so far, I have not forgotten,... "history is written by the victors."

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 05:03 PM
ok, I can go with all that.. it ALL needs to be sifted... and in the context of the time they occured in too, not "our" times. Here is something I was told that, so far, I have not forgotten,... "history is written by the victors."

Winston Churchill (that's his quote)

also take into acct these:

"'Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'" George Orwell, "1984."

"Those who tell the stories rule society." Plato

What is truely interesting, is that perhaps a rare example exists that goes against the "victor" telling the tale. And that is inside the USA, and we can thank our Bill of Rights, including free speech:

"A possible counterexample could be the American Civil War, where it can be argued that the losers (Southerners) have written more history books on the subject than the winners and, until recently, dominated the national perception of history. Confederate generals such as Lee and Jackson are generally held in higher esteem than their Union counterparts. Popular films such as Cold Mountain, Gone with the Wind and The Birth of a Nation have told the story from the Southern viewpoint."

Granted the southern army wasnt turned to dust, and our brothers and sisters were allowed to exist and countinue living freely, etc.

But its interesting none the less.

cnc66
07-13-2007, 05:09 PM
I had not thought to apply the statement to the secession war... and it was indeed our own bill of rights that allowed it to happen. I will dwell upon this one Big Dog... good that you are back around sir!

Stitches
07-13-2007, 05:13 PM
Winston Churchill (that's his quote)

also take into acct these:

"'Who controls the past, controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'" George Orwell, "1984."

"Those who tell the stories rule society." Plato

What is truely interesting, is that perhaps a rare example exists that goes against the "victor" telling the tale. And that is inside the USA, and we can thank our Bill of Rights, including free speech:

"A possible counterexample could be the American Civil War, where it can be argued that the losers (Southerners) have written more history books on the subject than the winners and, until recently, dominated the national perception of history. Confederate generals such as Lee and Jackson are generally held in higher esteem than their Union counterparts. Popular films such as Cold Mountain, Gone with the Wind and The Birth of a Nation have told the story from the Southern viewpoint."

Granted the southern army wasnt turned to dust, and our brothers and sisters were allowed to exist and countinue living freely, etc.

But its interesting none the less.

That's one reason I think certain religions are so predominant. They tell the most enthralling stories(or at least mythology).

ckb2001
07-13-2007, 05:13 PM
Well, there are many examples of losers writing history. The best examples are usually in wars where nomads fought civilizations. Usually, it's the civilized nations that wrote down the history even when they lost.

Where do you think we have most of the information about the Mongol invasions? From the Mongols???

Keep in mind that early on during Temuchin's (Genghis Khan) reign, the Mongols didn't even have a written language!!! They adopted the written language of the Uighurs later on.

And even after all that, most of the chroniclers were Chinese. Oh, and keep in mind that by the time of Kublai Khan, all of China, not just northern China, came under Mongol rule.

SCall13
07-13-2007, 06:07 PM
With how many documents have been destroyed over all these years, there isn't an accurate representation of what actually happened in a lot of instances. While saying history is a lie is a bit harsh, I was referencing a popular quote. I honestly believe that a lot is left out of history we do know, and in some instances the history we are taught is completely innaccurate(now I say this is a belief, because I can't 100% back it up, and I do think I could be proven wrong at some point).

Even if what you're saying is true about things in history (which obviously there are things that we do not know) there is plenty of historical evidence coupled with the goings ons inside the catholic church presently, to support what I said in my original post.

SCall13
07-13-2007, 06:11 PM
Calling their faith the whore of babylon is a bit of a name call isn't it? If I where to call christianism a whorish faith I will be crucified for attacking christians.

That isn't calling names. I'm simply stating that I feel that the bible is referring to the Catholic church when it talks about the great whore.

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 06:16 PM
Even if what you're saying is true about things in history (which obviously there are things that we do not know) there is plenty of historical evidence coupled with the goings ons inside the catholic church presently, to support what I said in my original post.

Historically speaking, "holiness, power, glory, conquest, and empire" have had greater appeal than freedom and democracy. Humans are subject to whims that begat their personal view of wealth, power & glory.

That includes and clearly does not exclude the Catholic Church! You are not about to suggest that those on the higher seats of ANY Physical Church are not subject to these sins?

Few among us, within this human race, can claim exemption....if you recall, "those without sin shall cast the 1st stone!"

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 06:22 PM
Let me also state this another way:

Few institutions should be measured by height of its leaders, or the simplest of its followers.

Any Institution should be properly measured more by its message/teachings, than by the acts of any specific sect of "followers" (including its leaders)....one is not always the same as the other - human error always comes into play.

SCall13
07-13-2007, 06:24 PM
Historically speaking, "holiness, power, glory, conquest, and empire" have had greater appeal than freedom and democracy. Humans are subject to whims that begat their personal view of wealth, power & glory.

That includes and clearly does not exclude the Catholic Church! You are not about to suggest that those on the higher seats of ANY Physical Church are not subject to these sins?

Few among us, within this human race, can claim exemption....if you recall, "those without sin shall cast the 1st stone!"

No doubt, we've all sinned. And sins can be forgiven. But catholicism has stood for itself and it's on power throughout history and killed and/or persecuted anyone who didn't believe it's (false) doctrine. True Christians were slaughtered for standing for Christ in the face of the catholic church by refusing it's false teachings of idolatry.

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 06:28 PM
No doubt, we've all sinned. And sins can be forgiven. But catholicism has stood for itself and it's on power throughout history and killed and/or persecuted anyone who didn't believe it's (false) doctrine. True Christians were slaughtered for standing for Christ in the face of the catholic church by refusing it's false teachings of idolatry.

Can you define one for me?

SCall13
07-13-2007, 06:37 PM
Let me also state this another way:

Few institutions should be measured by height of its leaders, or the simplest of its followers.

Any Institution should be properly measured more by its message/teachings, than by the acts of any specific sect of "followers" (including its leaders)....one is not always the same as the other - human error always comes into play.

I'm not passing judgment on any individual. But the spirit (to go a little deeper) that has lived in the Catholic Church is the very spirit that still lives today. And it's by that spirit that people are deceived.

Here is an interesting read that I agree with whole-heartedly. Read it if you have time. There is a link to more of this below.


In Revelation the 17th and 18th chapters we are given one of the most foreboding and ominous warnings contained in the whole scripture. Herein, we find identified a great WOMAN which is called the “Great Whore, Mystery Babylon, and the Mother of Harlots”.

She is also identified as the Mother of all the abominations of the earth. She stands above all others as a direct enemy to Jesus Christ. Her own seductive spell has swept the whole earth, from the kings to the inhabitants in it.

She is Satan’s queen (In Revelation 18:7, she says “I sit as a queen and am no widow”). So alluring and cunning are her enchantments that Revelation 17:8 tells us that the only ones who will not wonder but know her for what she is will be those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life from the foundation of the world. All the world will eventually bow down and become a part of her and her daughter system.


Now, let’s accumulate the CLUES listed in the above Scriptures and ask ourselves a question:

WHICH RELIGIOUS SYSTEM---

a. Controls multitudes, nations and tongues?
b. Has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth?
c. Is arrayed in purple and scarlet?
d. Is decked with silver and gold?,
e. Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus?
f. Sits upon seven mountains?
g. Is a great city reigning over kings?

Unless the reader is willfully ignorant it becomes obvious that the religious system herein described has to be the great CHURCH of ROME; the so-called “eternal city of seven hills”.

Let’s see further how The Vatican in Rome today resembles this Mystery Babylon.

a. Rome controls multitudes, nations and tongues.
No other authority on earth has ever interacted with the world and it’s political systems more than the Vatican. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in itself is owned and controlled by the Vatican.

b. Rome has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth.
None other than the Vatican is involved in the ecumenical movement of compromise known today as religious tolerance and unity. The world has seen Pope John Paul-11 going to Israel in year 2000, meeting with Arafat, and even fellowshipping with communist leaders for world unity.

Today the call is for “humanity” and not for Christ. The call is for “Unity” and not separation from other world’s religions. The Catholic Church has even declared that Islam is an Abrahamic faith and Muslims are our brothers. Today the Catholic Church is seen as a friend to Islam. The Pope was even seen kissing the Quran for the whole world to witness.

c.d. The Vatican is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and is decked with silver and gold.
Who else but the cardinals and the archbishops of the Catholic Church dress-up in purple and scarlet, the colors of so-called “royalty”. The golden cup is exactly what the Pope uses in the celebration of the “mass”.

e. Rome Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
As recorded in history, from the time of St. Augustine in 300 AD until AD 1850, 68 million Protestants have been killed by the Roman Catholic Church just because of disagreeing with their doctrine.

The Great Massacre of Ireland was one of the worst mass murders done by the Roman Church ever recorded in history. Millions of Christians were burnt at stake, fed to the lions, and tortured to death by the Catholic Church, which included Joan of Arc and St. Patrick - a “cup of abominations” indeed that deserves the Biblical verses mentioned in Revelation17:6 “drunken of the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus”.

Don’t be confused to start thinking that the Church of Rome has repented of her slaughter of the saints because she is attempting to unite with the Protestants today by making her creeds line-up with Protestant creeds. Not once has she ever apologized of her murders. No matter how sweet and mellow she appears at this particular time, she will yet rise up to kill, for murder lies in her evil and unrepentant heart. Just wait when the One World religion takes place. Those who will not bow down to the Pope will be persecuted, tortured, and killed again.

Read more here if you're interested.

http://www.endtimemessage.info/mysterybab.htm

SCall13
07-13-2007, 06:40 PM
Can you define one for me?


Christian means Christ-Like. So I DEFINE a Christian who does what Christ did and what he says should be done. One who follows Christ and refuses to follow man made creeds and doctrines; a person who refuses to worship idols and refuses to put man up in Christ's stead.

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 06:47 PM
I'm not passing judgment on any individual. But the spirit (to go a little deeper) that has lived in the Catholic Church is the very spirit that still lives today. And it's by that spirit that people are deceived.

Here is an interesting read that I agree with whole-heartedly. Read it if you have time. There is a link to more of this below.


In Revelation the 17th and 18th chapters we are given one of the most foreboding and ominous warnings contained in the whole scripture. Herein, we find identified a great WOMAN which is called the “Great Whore, Mystery Babylon, and the Mother of Harlots”.

She is also identified as the Mother of all the abominations of the earth. She stands above all others as a direct enemy to Jesus Christ. Her own seductive spell has swept the whole earth, from the kings to the inhabitants in it.

She is Satan’s queen (In Revelation 18:7, she says “I sit as a queen and am no widow”). So alluring and cunning are her enchantments that Revelation 17:8 tells us that the only ones who will not wonder but know her for what she is will be those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life from the foundation of the world. All the world will eventually bow down and become a part of her and her daughter system.


Now, let’s accumulate the CLUES listed in the above Scriptures and ask ourselves a question:

WHICH RELIGIOUS SYSTEM---

a. Controls multitudes, nations and tongues?
b. Has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth?
c. Is arrayed in purple and scarlet?
d. Is decked with silver and gold?,
e. Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus?
f. Sits upon seven mountains?
g. Is a great city reigning over kings?

Unless the reader is willfully ignorant it becomes obvious that the religious system herein described has to be the great CHURCH of ROME; the so-called “eternal city of seven hills”.

Let’s see further how The Vatican in Rome today resembles this Mystery Babylon.

a. Rome controls multitudes, nations and tongues.
No other authority on earth has ever interacted with the world and it’s political systems more than the Vatican. The International Monetary Fund and the World Bank in itself is owned and controlled by the Vatican.

b. Rome has seduced kings and inhabitants of the earth.
None other than the Vatican is involved in the ecumenical movement of compromise known today as religious tolerance and unity. The world has seen Pope John Paul-11 going to Israel in year 2000, meeting with Arafat, and even fellowshipping with communist leaders for world unity.

Today the call is for “humanity” and not for Christ. The call is for “Unity” and not separation from other world’s religions. The Catholic Church has even declared that Islam is an Abrahamic faith and Muslims are our brothers. Today the Catholic Church is seen as a friend to Islam. The Pope was even seen kissing the Quran for the whole world to witness.

c.d. The Vatican is arrayed in purple and scarlet, and is decked with silver and gold.
Who else but the cardinals and the archbishops of the Catholic Church dress-up in purple and scarlet, the colors of so-called “royalty”. The golden cup is exactly what the Pope uses in the celebration of the “mass”.

e. Rome Is drunk with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.
As recorded in history, from the time of St. Augustine in 300 AD until AD 1850, 68 million Protestants have been killed by the Roman Catholic Church just because of disagreeing with their doctrine.

The Great Massacre of Ireland was one of the worst mass murders done by the Roman Church ever recorded in history. Millions of Christians were burnt at stake, fed to the lions, and tortured to death by the Catholic Church, which included Joan of Arc and St. Patrick - a “cup of abominations” indeed that deserves the Biblical verses mentioned in Revelation17:6 “drunken of the blood of the saints and the martyrs of Jesus”.

Don’t be confused to start thinking that the Church of Rome has repented of her slaughter of the saints because she is attempting to unite with the Protestants today by making her creeds line-up with Protestant creeds. Not once has she ever apologized of her murders. No matter how sweet and mellow she appears at this particular time, she will yet rise up to kill, for murder lies in her evil and unrepentant heart. Just wait when the One World religion takes place. Those who will not bow down to the Pope will be persecuted, tortured, and killed again.

Read more here if you're interested.

http://www.endtimemessage.info/mysterybab.htm

Interesting read, including the site.....no wonder Dan Brown creates magic bound in leather....the wealth of material is limitless it seems.

SCall13
07-13-2007, 06:48 PM
Interesting read, including the site.....no wonder Dan Brown creates magic bound in leather....the wealth of material is limitless it seems.

Throw me a bone on this one. You lost me. :lol:

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 06:52 PM
Christian means Christ-Like. So I DEFINE a Christian who does what Christ did and what he says should be done. One who follows Christ and refuses to follow man made creeds and doctrines; a person who refuses to worship idols and refuses to put man up in Christ's stead.

Who walks this earth with those qualities and capabilities?

And are there none, within all the Catholic Church, that does as you describe?

You stated to be against CATHOLICISM - in your own words, correct!

Can one only be a TRUE CHRISTIAN if they be absent the CATHOLIC CHURCH?

LouPhinFan
07-13-2007, 06:53 PM
Let me also state this another way:

Few institutions should be measured by height of its leaders, or the simplest of its followers.

Any Institution should be properly measured more by its message/teachings, than by the acts of any specific sect of "followers" (including its leaders)....one is not always the same as the other - human error always comes into play.

That's why I base my belief on my study of the Bible versus what the Catholic Church teaches. Regardless what hedonistic things a pope 1200 years ago may or may not have done, the Catholic teachings contradict many of the things Jesus taught.

unluckyluciano
07-13-2007, 07:01 PM
No doubt, we've all sinned. And sins can be forgiven. But catholicism has stood for itself and it's on power throughout history and killed and/or persecuted anyone who didn't believe it's (false) doctrine. True Christians were slaughtered for standing for Christ in the face of the catholic church by refusing it's false teachings of idolatry.
You lost me here, so true christians are only those who died 100's of years ago?
Secondly are you also implying that all other christian sects, are free from the will of man?

cnc66
07-13-2007, 07:10 PM
hmmm... the Exorcist is on tonight at 8:00... for all you fans of pea soup


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/07/exorcist-1.jpg

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 07:12 PM
That's why I base my belief on my study of the Bible versus what the Catholic Church teaches. Regardless what hedonistic things a pope 1200 years ago may or may not have done, the Catholic teachings contradict many of the things Jesus taught.

May I aks, what version of the Bible you study?

Keep in mind as I am sure you are aware, the Bible, like the Catholic teachings you avoid, is not without contradictions.

That said, there is much merit in what you speak, finding virtue in the book and living your life to best of your ability, has much value.

Stitches
07-13-2007, 07:38 PM
Christian means Christ-Like. So I DEFINE a Christian who does what Christ did and what he says should be done. One who follows Christ and refuses to follow man made creeds and doctrines; a person who refuses to worship idols and refuses to put man up in Christ's stead.

The way I perceive it, is every doctrine is man made.

LouPhinFan
07-13-2007, 07:40 PM
May I aks, what version of the Bible you study?

Keep in mind as I am sure you are aware, the Bible, like the Catholic teachings you avoid, is not without contradictions.

That said, there is much merit in what you speak, finding virtue in the book and living your life to best of your ability, has much value.

N.I.V.

Believe me I know there are certain contradictions in the Bible. It was written by God through man. He then had his hand in leading the early church leaders that chose those books to make up the Bible. Then man translated the Bible. Any time you have man involved in anything, there is certainly going to be contradictions. It sounds kinda funny, but if the Bible didn't have contradiction it probably wouldn't be as interesting. Not to mention spawn threads like this one...:)

SCall13
07-13-2007, 07:42 PM
Who walks this earth with those qualities and capabilities?

And are there none, within all the Catholic Church, that does as you describe?

You stated to be against CATHOLICISM - in your own words, correct!

Can one only be a TRUE CHRISTIAN if they be absent the CATHOLIC CHURCH?

There are some. Few really. The bible refers to it as his "little flock." There are few who will make it.

I don't want to speak ill of PEOPLE. The Catholic system is, like I said, deceiving. People who are in the Catholic religion are deceived into BELIEVING that they are living Christian lives, when in fact they are going against the very word taught by Christ. Catholicism is filled with idol worship, penance for sins, asking forgiveness from a MAN, praying to statues and false mediators. These are all directly and blatantly going against the 10 commandments, yet people do it anyway because they have been blinded by false doctrine.

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 07:48 PM
There are some. Few really. The bible refers to it as his "little flock." There are few who will make it.

I don't want to speak ill of PEOPLE. The Catholic system is, like I said, deceiving. People who are in the Catholic religion are deceived into BELIEVING that they are living Christian lives, when in fact they are going against the very word taught by Christ. Catholicism is filled with idol worship, penance for sins, asking forgiveness from a MAN, praying to statues and false mediators. These are all directly and blatantly going against the 10 commandments, yet people do it anyway because they have been blinded by false doctrine.

Understood, and this Christian flock that has set you on your path is???

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 07:51 PM
N.I.V.

Believe me I know there are certain contradictions in the Bible. It was written by God through man. He then had his hand in leading the early church leaders that chose those books to make up the Bible. Then man translated the Bible. Any time you have man involved in anything, there is certainly going to be contradictions. It sounds kinda funny, but if the Bible didn't have contradiction it probably wouldn't be as interesting. Not to mention spawn threads like this one...:)

I will check it out. Do you study with others, or strictly on your own when you state "my study of the Bible"?

adamprez2003
07-13-2007, 07:52 PM
The difference I see between Catholics and Protestants is basically that Protestants tend to read the bible more literally and the Catholics more metaphorically. Other than that I dont see much of a difference other than the Catholic Church is much more powerful. Catholic Church is like Coca Cola while the Protestants are like RC Cola

SCall13
07-13-2007, 07:59 PM
Understood, and this Christian flock that has set you on your path is???

Let me clarify that when I say few, I mean few in relation to the earths population. But the bible says "as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man"

In Noah's day there were only 8 spared from God's wrath. Noah, his 3 sons and their wives. I'm not suggesting there will only be 8 make it. But just as an example, there are very few.

I am non-denominational.

SCall13
07-13-2007, 08:02 PM
hmmm... the Exorcist is on tonight at 8:00... for all you fans of pea soup


http://www.finheaven.com/images/imported/2007/07/exorcist-1.jpg

:lol:

DolfinDave
07-13-2007, 08:14 PM
I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic church and school from kindegarden all the way through high school. I no longer consider myself a Catholic, barely even a Christian. But I know what the religion is about. I was forced to read the bible and I aced classes in high school involving Christian scripture. So I have a fair bit of knowledge about the Catholic church.

First of all, there seems to be this perception that Catholics idolize Mary, saints, and angels. I never got that perception from all my time in the church. Sure Mary was talked about. But I never thought she was a central part of any teachings. And the pope seems to be a big knock when I hear other denominations speak. I've heard people say that Catholics believe the pope is perfect and they have to do and believe everything he says. I don't think most Catholics believe that. There is a method used when he is supposedly infalable. But I won't go through that now, mostly because its one of the many things I don't believe in.

And that's not all I don't believe in. I just find many of the traditions and everyday things about the church and its mass useless. I don't think it has much to do with the message, which for the most I think is ok. The basic message is what I took from my experience. And to me it was the stuff Jesus preached about. Treat people as you would want them to treat you. Pretty much to be considerate to other people and tolerate them.

I don't think many Catholics take confession seriously. Nor do I think they take a lot of the stuff all that seriously. The actual masses are pretty harmless. I never heard anything even close to the stuff I hear preached by the Falwells of the world. I don't know if that is par for the course for other denominations. But I have never attended a mass where gay marriage was discussed or really anything of that nature. Any speech by a priest I have ever heard was about a specific passage in the gospel. They take it and try to relate it to a story they have or a personal experience that we can relate to. I don't see much problem on a local level with the church. I just think most of it is pointless and can be done without.

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 08:25 PM
The GOLDEN RULE : "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

This so-called golden rule is stated in just about every ancient writing about behavioral precepts (including the New Testament, Talmud, Koran, and the Analects of Confucius).

DolfinDave
07-13-2007, 08:42 PM
The GOLDEN RULE : "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

This so-called golden rule is stated in just about every ancient writing about behavioral precepts (including the New Testament, Talmud, Koran, and the Analects of Confucius).

Hence why I feel no need to go to church. I feel that as long as you do that, you'll be fine.

DonShula84
07-13-2007, 08:47 PM
Can you define one for me?

People who agree with him.

unluckyluciano
07-13-2007, 09:09 PM
People who agree with him.
Agreed.

BigDogsHunt
07-13-2007, 09:12 PM
Hence why I feel no need to go to church. I feel that as long as you do that, you'll be fine.

Yeah, but you are reading into that all the positives.....there are some sick twisted people out there, and what "they would have one do unto themselves", I wouldnt wish on my friends.

DolfinDave
07-13-2007, 09:20 PM
Yeah, but you are reading into that all the positives.....there are some sick twisted people out there, and what "they would have one do unto themselves", I wouldnt wish on my friends.

Yeah I guess so. Don't worry though. I'm not going to start my own 'Golden Rule' Church anytime soon. I was just stating what I follow. I'm probably not going to convince many people to change churches or faiths.

LouPhinFan
07-14-2007, 01:05 AM
I will check it out. Do you study with others, or strictly on your own when you state "my study of the Bible"?

Both, although, to be honest with you I don't study on my own as much as I should.

Here's a website with multiple verisions of the Bible, including the New International Version (N.I.V.)

http://www.biblegateway.com/

Quelonio
07-16-2007, 12:46 AM
I was raised Catholic. Went to Catholic church and school from kindegarden all the way through high school. I no longer consider myself a Catholic, barely even a Christian. But I know what the religion is about. I was forced to read the bible and I aced classes in high school involving Christian scripture. So I have a fair bit of knowledge about the Catholic church.

First of all, there seems to be this perception that Catholics idolize Mary, saints, and angels. I never got that perception from all my time in the church. Sure Mary was talked about. But I never thought she was a central part of any teachings. And the pope seems to be a big knock when I hear other denominations speak. I've heard people say that Catholics believe the pope is perfect and they have to do and believe everything he says. I don't think most Catholics believe that. There is a method used when he is supposedly infalable. But I won't go through that now, mostly because its one of the many things I don't believe in.

And that's not all I don't believe in. I just find many of the traditions and everyday things about the church and its mass useless. I don't think it has much to do with the message, which for the most I think is ok. The basic message is what I took from my experience. And to me it was the stuff Jesus preached about. Treat people as you would want them to treat you. Pretty much to be considerate to other people and tolerate them.

I don't think many Catholics take confession seriously. Nor do I think they take a lot of the stuff all that seriously. The actual masses are pretty harmless. I never heard anything even close to the stuff I hear preached by the Falwells of the world. I don't know if that is par for the course for other denominations. But I have never attended a mass where gay marriage was discussed or really anything of that nature. Any speech by a priest I have ever heard was about a specific passage in the gospel. They take it and try to relate it to a story they have or a personal experience that we can relate to. I don't see much problem on a local level with the church. I just think most of it is pointless and can be done without.

Yup same here, Catholic school when I was a kid, I went to school under the Marists though, and since they are an order that is devoted to Mary, we did get a lot of Mary talk in the school (and since Mexico has its own Virgin that appeared in the country, Mary is sort of a big deal... I appreaciate it as the social movement that it is and move on).

I think there are a lot of misconceptions, and I believe that the very fact of saying my faith (whichever that may be) is more valid than the other guys faith is quite unchristianlike. Then again I am not christian.

I will put it like this, I have lived amongst catholics and christians, I find christians to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more annoying than catholics. But that is just me.

DolfinDave
07-16-2007, 01:16 AM
Yup same here, Catholic school when I was a kid, I went to school under the Marists though, and since they are an order that is devoted to Mary, we did get a lot of Mary talk in the school (and since Mexico has its own Virgin that appeared in the country, Mary is sort of a big deal... I appreaciate it as the social movement that it is and move on).

I think there are a lot of misconceptions, and I believe that the very fact of saying my faith (whichever that may be) is more valid than the other guys faith is quite unchristianlike. Then again I am not christian.

I will put it like this, I have lived amongst catholics and christians, I find christians to be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more annoying than catholics. But that is just me.

Last time I checked Catholics, and most Christian denominations, don't go door to door annoying the sh*t out of you. :wink:

I always find it funny that a lot of males around our age that grew up Catholic seem to be pretty distant from the church. I don't know if its just a rebellion thing or what. But the church and the schools seem to do a pretty good job of pushing young people away. And its not like I felt it was being forced on me. It certainly was because I was never given a choice. But I didn't really feel overwhemled with it. I just kind of grew out of it.

Quelonio
07-16-2007, 03:02 AM
Last time I checked Catholics, and most Christian denominations, don't go door to door annoying the sh*t out of you. :wink:

I always find it funny that a lot of males around our age that grew up Catholic seem to be pretty distant from the church. I don't know if its just a rebellion thing or what. But the church and the schools seem to do a pretty good job of pushing young people away. And its not like I felt it was being forced on me. It certainly was because I was never given a choice. But I didn't really feel overwhemled with it. I just kind of grew out of it.

I did a bit.. but it was by my peers not by the people that where actually supposed to force it on me (the priests and the teachers and such). Quite frankly out of my generation, we where 70 people and of those only 2 of us are not catholic (granted it was a really small town, and a lot of them never left and some just left inside the state and inside the same system, but still it is a pretty good rate).

I feel that everyone moves away from what they started, heck even in my american family they where all evangelical and now they are all presbiterian. So I feel like people change with what they are doing. One of my best friends was a christian and he became a catholic, he just felt it gave him the answers he wanted.

Religion is like opinions, everyone got one.

DolfinDave
07-16-2007, 03:42 AM
I did a bit.. but it was by my peers not by the people that where actually supposed to force it on me (the priests and the teachers and such). Quite frankly out of my generation, we where 70 people and of those only 2 of us are not catholic (granted it was a really small town, and a lot of them never left and some just left inside the state and inside the same system, but still it is a pretty good rate).

I feel that everyone moves away from what they started, heck even in my american family they where all evangelical and now they are all presbiterian. So I feel like people change with what they are doing. One of my best friends was a christian and he became a catholic, he just felt it gave him the answers he wanted.

Religion is like opinions, everyone got one.

Pretty much. And like opinions, its hard for some to realize that they are just that, and not unquestionable facts.

Mike13
07-16-2007, 10:28 PM
Catholic teachings contradict many of the things Jesus taught

And that never happens with any other denomination.:rolleyes:

DolfinDave
07-16-2007, 10:44 PM
And that never happens with any other denomination.:rolleyes:

Yeah its funny because I don't remember any parables Jesus told involving gay couples being stoned to death because they tried to get married. Or was Marry Magdalin a lesbian? Oh wait, he didn't want to have her punished. Damn, I guess he was right to say churches teach things Jesus didn't. :evil:

adamprez2003
07-16-2007, 11:45 PM
Yeah its funny because I don't remember any parables Jesus told involving gay couples being stoned to death because they tried to get married. Or was Marry Magdalin a lesbian? Oh wait, he didn't want to have her punished. Damn, I guess he was right to say churches teach things Jesus didn't. :evil:

depends how you define " let him who is without sin, cast the first stone" :D

kidding, kidding, just kidding